Businessweek Extra-Abigail Ross Hopper

climate change. Biden will take office having made unprecedented commitments to address global warming and with a fifteen year plan to create carbon neutral electricity across the US on the way to achieving net zero emissions by Biden has also promised to spend two trillion dollars on a sweeping climate and job agenda. Now, the solar energy industry man, they are watching all of this very closely, and so with that in mind, I caught up with Abigail ross Hopper.

She is President and CEO of the Solar Energy Industries Association. They represent the solar industry. She's also former director of the Department of Interiors Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, where she led the agency that oversaw the leasing and development of all offshore energy, from oil and natural gas to offshore wind. Carol Thank you so much for having me

this afternoon. So I have to say, we have a lot of important things to talk about, but can I just be quite honest with you that from the get go, my producer Paul Brennan, Um, when we were talking about who was going to be on our show and talking about you joining us, he shared your bio and it says a very proud mom of three kids, loves to read writer peloton, do hot yoga, and lie on the beach. And my producer Paul said to me, sounds like you Carol minus two kids, which is exactly I have to say.

You're my doppelganger. It's pretty amazing. That is very funny. I am my Pelison was my first quarantine purchase there was, and it was really a brilliant purchase and I am totally addicted and brand boyle. Now, all right, have you done the Hamiltons Ride? I did the Hamilton's Ride on Monday night. I did that Beyonce ride ride. I'm all in all right, Well, so really really wonderful to catch up with you. Um it sounds like we have to

have a drink when we're back in normal times. UM, So tell me about first of all, your world, what it's been like, and what the industry's world has been

like under COVID. Yeah, we have really struggled, Carroll. Under COVID, you know, we represent utility scales, so those big projects in the middle of the desert, we represent commercial, the ones on top of schools and corporates, and then you know, once on top of your house and mind residential solar, and they've all been hit, although the residential solar has been hit the hardest. Um it makes sense, right, people don't want anyone coming to their home. They can't do

door to door sales. So our companies have really innovated and figured out different ways to sell and incorporated safety mechanisms and so sort of the pipeline is starting to build again. What we're finding though, is that the tax equity market, which is such a critical part of our financing, is really tightened up um and use uncertain times and so we see that as a pretty significant challenge that

has been brought on by COVID. So how do you change that, especially in a world where we were talking We've been talking over the last few hours of our broadcast, you know, just we're watching the headlines and the numbers are just going higher soon than do you anticipate that kind of what you've been dealing with you're going to have to continue to deal with until we get kind

of to the other side. Yeah, I think, Um, I mean, I think on many of our projects, we have figured out how to install, how to sell and install and permit safely. So um, there is demand there. What we are considered now is really about the ability to finance the deals, and so we have been asking Congress to make our tax credit refundable as opposed to being predicated

on a tax equity appetite. Um. We've had a lots I mean, I live in Washington and we've had lots of meetings with legislators, although they've all been by a zoom um, and they understand we've lost We've wiped away about five years of job growth in the first few months of COVID, So it's been really devastating. On the flip side, you know, we can put people back to work really quickly all across the country if we have

some certainty around our our financing mechanism. So okay, So here we are in this kind of strange political world right where the transition is not going. You understand transitions. You've been inside, you know, the government, when a transition happens, going from President Obama to President Trump. I mean, what are your expectations. Well, we'll talk a little bit about that, then I'm gonna do something. We'll come back. But we've got about forty seconds here, you know. Are you anticipating

that anything gets done before January? Are you anticipating anything gets done anytime soon? I am very hopeful Um that in the new Congress, with President President elect Biden in office, that there will be some significant legislation that passes. We can talk after the break about the bipartisan nature of solar But I am optimistic. I'm not particularly optimistic this year end, because, as you said, everything it's just so

unprecedented at the moment to use an overused word. So it was interesting in the break we talked a little bit Abigail Um about who Joe Biden might pick, uh possibly to run the Energy Department, and there one name is being floated around as an ex Google official who is kind of on the short list. He's a former

deputy secretary Um from our at the department. But it's interesting in our reporting, you just kind of made the point out that you've got to have somebody politically savvy in that department and somebody who's technically understands kind of

everything at issue. And I do think about when you look at maybe the shaping up of a new administration, you know, who do we need to have in play, especially when it comes to things like solar energy, or or alternative energy, or just overall our energy policy in this country. Yeah, I think I listened to your conversation about that. I think, you know, we want people in our government who an energy front, who are practitioners of energy right, who know how to build it, know how

to finance it, know how to get it done. If if President elect Biden is going to implement his aggressive climate change plan, there has to be just even more rapid deployment of solar and wind and offshore wind and all of these technologies. So you need folks in government who understand how the businesses operate and you can get that done. But over and that's more like at the Department of the Interior, where they're they're actually around execution.

But if you think about the Departative Energy, right, that's where so much of the R and D happens and having um, you know, an engineer and a scientist over there, it makes a ton of sense because we're really sort of looking at next gen options, right what are we what are we going to do? How are we going to find these new technologies to even further decarbonize our our economy. What was your what was your experience between

kind of old energy new energy? Because I do feel like we have such um whether it's to lobbyists and the money that's still in kind of our old energy world, we know that in order to protect our climate, we've really got to embrace more fully alternative energy. Do you feel like there's enough thinking of that going on in the government or we need to really kind of take a big leap forward. I think we need to take

a big leap forward. Um. I think that we need to recognize the crisis that we're in and take big, bold,

aggressive steps. Um. So, you know, when I was at the Department of Interior, I oversaw oil and gas, as you said, and renewables, offshore wind and so one of the most interesting things that I noticed, and I noticed it in solar as well, is that many of the first of the European oil and gas majors, and now the American oil and gas majors are making big investments and renewables right and solar and wind and offshore wind.

They see it, you know, they understand where the market is going, and they understand UM sort of where where consumers and regulators and policy makers wants to go, and

so are diversifying their offerings UM. And that has been a really interesting shift of the last few years, is to see the shelves and the the dps of the world, in addition to the Europeans, like you know, some of the other European utilities, UM and oil majors really invests heavily in electric vehicles, in solar in storage because it is going to be a huge part of our energy next.

So help me out here, because I think I'm always someone like it feels like we were moving along so slowly and like tak e vs. I felt like it it took somebody like Elon Musk to kind of shake up, you know, the establishment, to say, well a minute, we can do this faster. And I really do feel like he really awakened the auto industry, the global auto industry.

But help me understand, since you understand this that in terms of kind of you know, the old line, Like, it's fascinating to hear what you say about Shell and MVP and we we knew this that they were looking at, you know, renewables. But does it do we have to understand it does take some time to kind of shift our world two renewables or are there ways that we

can be it should be doing it faster? And I know you're from the solar industry, so you're probably gonna be like, yeah, of course we can do it faster. But do you know what I'm saying that that that it isn't always so easy to kind of shift. We don't necessarily we still are struggling with the infrastructure when it comes to E VS. Right, No, I so I am both a realists, right. I understand how the good works.

I understand how the technology works. UM, and so there are some challenges to rapid deployment, but you're right, you need big out of the box spinkers to really um come up with creative solutions. And so I and you know my background is from all energy, so well, yes, I work at the solar industry right now, UM, I think I have a pretty holistic to you and I think there are things we can do. I think there's things that the President and the agencies can do in

terms of federal procurement. Right the obviously the US government and the US M forces or one of the are is the largest fire of energy um. And so looking at their procurement all of the real estate they have, all of our public lands and putting solar and wind resources on our public lands. You know, we already do oil and gas drilling, so it makes sense to have rapid deployment. They're thinking about the technology, thinking about the finance, creating UM sort of ways that we that the market.

You know, it's putting the right marketing centers out there and then letting companies respond to it. I think, um, there's a lot of things that we can do to to move this transition even more quickly. Yeah, I think market incentives are really a really really big thing when you think about what they can do. Um. Alright, So to wrap up, I gotta ask you who's your favorite Peloton instructor. I love alex Oh. I think he is. He inspires me in a way that none other do.

How about you, UM, I think, like a lot of people, I do like Robin Arson. I like kinda Marie Corbett and I have to say I've actually met Robin. Um. We've covered Peloton as you would imagine. I've talked to John Foley a lot um and I've done stories on him and met Robin when they have kind of the Peloton annual gathering. Um, they met in New York and it was very cool. You know, she's a lawyer. It's just it's a very cool world. I just gotta say,

it isn't very cool. And her personal story is so fascinating. I'm excited to watch her um be pregnant and how to Davy. And that wraps up our Bloomberg Business Week Extra podcast with Abigail ross Hopper, Presidency of the Solar Energy Industries Association. She's also a former director of the Department of Interiors Bureau of Ocean Energy Management, where she led the agency that oversaw the leasing and development of all offshore energy, from oil and natural gas to offshore wind.

Have a great weekend. I'm Carol Masser.