Bull Market Rotations From Tech-Driven Mega-Companies

to watch us too on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. Okay, what do we been talking about in equity markets. We've been talking about this rotation trade, rotating into some of the more cyclical names, maybe even some smaller caps. Let's get a sense if that's really a thing. We can do that with Mike Reagan, senior editor and lead a

blogger for Bloomberg Markets Live Blog. He joins us on the phone, which from what I'm just gonna say, Mike has not become the New Wall Street Power Alley, and that is New Jersey. You join us on the phone from New Jersey. Mike, thanks so much for joining us here. Talk to us about this rotation trade. How does it

kind of characterize Yeah, here some respect for New Jersey. Yeah, you know fall and I have a piece of not Business week, uh this week with my colleagues, the data Hi, Rick and Claire balance in about this and we talked to a bunch of different fund managers to just kind of, you know, take their temperature about what they've witnessed over

the past month. And it is that rotation. You know, a lot of us tends to look at the stock markets through the lenses of factors now, you know, whether it be growth and value or the size factors small caps. So this looks appears like it was a rotation from growth to value, where maybe from mega tap, big name Apple,

Amazon type of stocks into small caps. I think what it obviously is on a sort of sort of more basic level, is a rotation away from the state at home beneficiaries to the companies that will benefit if we actually are ever allowed out of our houses again. Um. So I think it's an important distinction because that's back to rotation. Everybody has been sort of thinking that there would be this rotation from growth to the value factor at some point. People have been predicting it for years.

There seems a bet a few times when it looked like it was happening, um, but then it kind of fizzled out. Um. So this is you know, the vaccine and the notion that life might get back to normal is really the catalyst for this rotation, and it very

well could lead to that value out performance. Um, even though I'm not I'm not sure you could classify as sort of the value factor in and of itself coming back into fashion rather that those beaten down bank, energy and industrial stocks that were sort of left behind in this rebound. They they're all sort of heavyweights in that

value factor. Um. So as people get more optimistic about the vaccine, there's a lot of speculation and and you know, who knows if it will pan out, but a lot of speculation that finally that time for value too and maybe small caps to outperform the big mega cap tech names of the stock market. Is that hand and and will last a while, won't just be a flash in the pan ball. That's kind of where I wanted to go, Mike, because you know, you think about it, just maybe just

say from a financial crisis, oh nine ten. You know the story of the stock market has really been kind of the big cap to tech, the growth names that have really powered this market. I'm just wondering, typically, you know, looking at it historically on past cycles, how long does a you know, a cyclical rotation trade, how long does that typically play out? Is it something fairly quick you have to be nimble to get in and able to get out, or there's a play out over a longer

period of time. Yeah, I think it depends on sort of what kind of investor and trader you are. There are certainly sort of many rotations that may only last a week or or a month, and a lot of times they're just corrected, say one one factor, one sector just got way ahead of its skis and the other one was left behind, and then there's kind of a quick meaning reversion. But there are these longer term rotations.

And the one that I talked to Rob ar Not of Research Affiliates, who's very into fundamental indexes, one of the pioneers in that space. He putted out this super years long UH favoring and outperformance of value after the crash of the dot com bubble is basically from I think early two thousand to the middle or late two thousand and six, that value actually was outperforming growth pretty consistently. UM. So that is the kind of big I think see change that a lot of investors want to get in

on the ground floor of UM. It's starting to look too many people like that could be the case this time again. There's so many sort of head bakes in this type of back and forth between you know what characteristics investors are really going to reward UM that it's kind of too early to say rob or not in our story says he thinks this is that it's the start of a multi year outperformance for value you because the discrepancy just got so large there, and you know,

he makes that comparison of the dot com bubble. I mean, I think obviously there's a lot of differences to point out that the big mega cat tech companies in this error are in way better shape. They're not sort of type dream type of speculative stocks like we saw in the dot com eraor these are obviously legit cash rich businesses. But that doesn't mean that they can kind of, you know, don't won't necessarily take a backseat to the value to

the beaten down plays for a little bit. It might not necessarily mean, you know, Paul, that these big megacap socks are in for for the clins or bad performance, but the thinking is that maybe they won't be the stars of the show for a little bit. Interesting, interesting trade. Mike Creagan, thanks so much for joining us. Mike's got at this story out in the Bloomer Business Week magazine. The bullmarket rotates away from tech drip and mega companies.

You can catch that in this week's edition of Bloomberg Business Week. Can senior editor and lead a blogger for Bloomberg Markets Live. He joined us the phone from New Jersey and again, Mike's got that really cool story about that rotation trade. Uh. And some folks think that this can really have legs and it's a way to play. It's a way to get the you know, some value for your investment dollar. So we're starting to see that in the in disease as we look at it really

starting in November. Looking at the shares of Boeing there up seven percent today on the back of that news that Ryanair, which is an Irish airline, gonna buy some of those seven three seven Max jets which have been on the ground for many months now. Julie Johnson, Aerospace reporter for Bloomberg News, joins us on the phone from Chicago. Julie, this seems like a big deal, an affirmation if you will, of Boeing and its seven thirty seven Max. Oh. Yeah, it's huge for Boeing. Um. They so the max is

U is officially ungrounded in the US. That happened last months and Boeing has been working to you know, to cranek up through the commercial machine. UM. That is this the jetliner program. I mean, it's absolutely critical to the company's finances. UM sales really sort of dropped away, um after you know, to fatal crashes last year in this global grounding, and then COVID came in this year and

just devastated the market. And so this is the largest deal for Boeing or Airbus UM since you know, since the world changed. So, Julie, it's interesting. We had the CEOs of both Boeing and Ryanair on Bloomberg Television this morning. They're interviewed Bykey Johnson and Alex Steele, and boy, the CEO of Ryanair really went out of his way, I thought, to really praise the seven seven Max and say how confident they are in the jet and how it's such

a great move forward. Is Bobing gonna need more of this type of support from the aviation industry if they really want to get this thing going again. Yeah, well, I'm absolutely m of course Leary has has vested interest in Max I mean Ryan Airs in all seven thirty seven operator and so um, so you know he needs it. He needs to inspire confidence in their airplane as well. Obviously, I'm and you know we've seen some other big customers come out and and support Boeing in the plane over

the last month or so. I think what's really going to be critical for this this jet to make it back into the marketplace is for when when flights resume, and it's going to happen as soon as next week in Brazil. Um Boeing needs um desperately to have a quiet few months like no, you know, no, um, no big splashy um. I don't want to say accidents, but you know, mistress, yes, what's these? You know that goes

to a good point. Do you expect the airlines Boeing both uh to kind of mount some type of public relations campaign to try to reassure the flying public that this is in fact a safe aircraft. Are they just kind of again try to let it kind of spread word of mouth. Maybe. I think every airline is going to do this differently. And at one point last year, when you know, the Max was just absolutely dominating social

media and the headlines, Boeing had this huge um circus planned. Um. They rented a jet and and you know, repainted it in Boeing cup Uh, you know, their livery and they were going to fly that around the world and take you know, journalists up and um. And so a couple of things happened. I mean the company really was sort of told by the f a A and the airlines to you know, to stand down and and uh and let other people take the lead around bringing the plane

back and um. And then you know, since COVID and the US election, Uh, it's it's just not the headline generator it was. And why remind people, you know, of the tragedies. Alright, So just thirty seconds. Really, what's the timing here of how how Boeing believes it will get this aircraft back into the fleet. Um. Well, I mean the it's all happening in the next week the first delivery. I mean, the plane is cleared to fly in the US American is going to fly it at the end

of the month, but we'll see it in Brazil next week. Interesting. All right, that's a certainly good news for Boeing. Now the question is is there going to be UH demand

from the flying public are given the pandemic. Julie Johnson, aerospace reporter for Bloomberg News, joining us on the phone from Chicago, And it's really kind of a big issue for the airlines is as we kind of deal with these terrible pandemic numbers and actually the trend going the wrong way, it's very difficult to convince obviously consumers to get back on airplanes and travel and many parts of

the world that's being really curtailed. So that's more headwinds, if you will, for the airlines and for the manufacturers like Boeing. When you talk to technology investors, technology analysts, probably the one big fear in the back of all their minds is regulation. UH. This industry is getting so big, so powerful, it has to attract regulatory risk. It's certainly already has UH in Europe and some other markets, but not in the U S. And there's concerned that that

may be changing. Our next guest has a great story on this. Shelley Banjo, New York bureau chief Bloomberg News, joins us on the phone from Brooklyn, and Shelley, you've got a Bloomberg Business Week story here entitled going after Big Tech is one thing global leaders agree on. What did you find in your reporting? Yes, so, I don't know about you, but I was a little overwhelmed with all of the just news about anti trust and around

the world. And one thing that kind of kept weighing on my mind was, you know, this thing is this thing is a global trend. You know, like China, the US don't agree on anything that EU. You know, there's there's there's very little that the rest of the world agrees on. And one thing that they do seem to agree on is that tech companies are just too big, too powerful, and too profitable, and that it's time to

do something about it. So, Shelly, again, I'm old enough to remember back in some the early days of regulatory risk as relates to technology, specifically Microsoft, and this is years ago, and and the European Union really came down on them pretty hard in terms of their operating system and their software. Um. But again, the US regulatory environment apparatus, including you know, government and Congress did not generally they

took it again a very light touch. And so is their concern here within in Silicon value that in the United States the regulatory risk may be becoming a significant risk. Yeah.

I mean, you can make the argument that because of everything that went after Microsoft, you did kind of paved way for some of these big companies like Google and Facebook and Twitter that you know didn't exist um twenty years ago to kind of um come come out um and into their own And now the argument is, well, can they are can new companies actually take on these big, mega tech companies UM or had to become so concentrated that if you're not one of the top four UM

you know companies that that you really can't. So so I think, you know, it's it's also no surprise that a lot of this is ramping up during the pandemic. You know, it really really did shine a spotlight on how important these tech companies are, how much we rely on these tech companies UM and you see, you know, if you kind of juxtapose that with the um uh fifths of U S small businesses closing down during the pandemic, and I think it really Saysted lawmakers, you know, are

you going to do something about this? What can lawmakers really do? What a folks that are really proposing I guess a heavier regulatory touch on technology and on Silicon Valley. What are they proposed that seems reasonable? Yeah, you know, I think that a lot of people look at what's happened in Europe and said, you know, these folks have been a lot of makers in Europe have been focusing on the tech companies for years, and they don't seem

to be making a dent. Besides, um, you know, leving signs on these companies that have so much money that it doesn't really bother them, and so UM, you know, I think it is fair to be skeptical of how much government can really rain these companies in UM. I think the things to watch are a, UM, you know, it's it's likely that Joe by UH President elect Joe Biden is going to continue this Justice Departments to against Google. I don't think that's going to go away, and it's

going to really drag on for some time. UM. And B is this really large landmark report UM that Representative David Cecilian Um came out with UM that he's now preparing legislation on UM to kind of give UM the US antitrust authorities new powers, UM, you know, give them a little bit more UM heft in what they can do to go after to go after some of these companies.

And Shelly, I guess you know, some folks that have even proposed I guess this might be going out on the spectrum a little bit, but actually breaking up some of these large tech companies, is that realistically on the table? Do you believe? I think everything is on the table at this point, but I do definitely think that it's a spectrum, and that's probably at the far end as

the spectrum. UM. I think what would be more likely to happen is that you kind of start to pass legislation that makes it harder to keep these companies together, and so then the companies then decide, you know, maybe we should just spend something off, or maybe we should sell it. Maybe it's not worth it to be in this business anymore. So, Shelly, I guess, you know, listening to the folks on the other side of the debate here, the folks in Silicon Valley, they say the reason that

Silicon val only is what it is. And the reason that the US is the technology leader in the world is because of a relatively light regulatory touch. Is that still finding an audience on Capitol Hill? Yeah? I think, um, you know that's certainly the case, um, that they are going to listen to these tech companies, UM. And they don't want innovation to go away. They want the US to be, you know, the leader in technology, especially when you have a country like China coming up and really

um challenging that. UM. So I think that will you know that that will still matter. But there's a reason why all these companies are peppering in all these um, you know programs for small businesses. Every single earning is called now the CEO has talked about, oh, this is what we're doing for small business, this is what we're doing for small business because um, you know, they want to show or at least attempt to show that, you know, we're not going to eat up all these other small businesses.

I mean you think about um, you know, Walmart way back then and how they work using all these um you know the pause we're upset about retailers closing down because of Walmart, and you know the same thing is kind of happening now is technology kind of um you know, expanse tentacles into everything from banking to endursing to you know,

you name it. So, Shelley, about the thirty seconds here, What are the next steps that we should be looking for, um, either from the companies themselves or from Washington in terms of maybe some legislation or just some rulemakings. Yeah, I think all eyes now turned to the Justice Department and the Attorney's General around the around the country. Who are reaching these um, these losses. First its Google, you know, UM, there is there is talk about other companies like Facebook

and others. You're seeing um, companies like Apples start to take action around their app store. UM. You know, I think you'll see action from these companies to try to get ahead of the problem. But then you're you're also going to see It's a Joe Biden presidency and that UM will be interesting to watch. You know who he puts in charge for those kinds of antitrust issues and um, you know how much support he gives up the Justice Department to go after these companies. I'll be fascinating to follow,

certainly for investors and for consumers. Given you know how proliferate all these technologies are in our life. Shelley Banjo, New York Bureau Chief, thanks so much for joining US bure chief for Bloomberg News, joining us on the phone from Brooklyn, and again, technology investors. They've really since, you know, really from the get go. You know, over many cycles have really benefited from um, you know, the lack of US regulatory oversight terms of the big big Way. So

you can read Chelly story. It's featured in the new issue of Bloomberg Business Week magazine, available on newstands and a Bloomberg dot Com. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Cairol Masser on Bloomberg Radio. You are listening to Bloomberg Business Week on Paul Sweeney sitting in for Carol Master. I guess we're to step back and think about where we are with this pandemic. On the one hand, we have just brutal, brutal metrics in terms of new cases

and new hospitalizations, certainly going the wrong way. But on the other hand, we have a lot of good news on the vaccine front, with at least three vaccines now very close to coming to the market. So let's get a kind of lay of the land. We can do that with ru Pauli LeMay, Associate director for Behavioral Research for the Institute for Vaccine Safety, too. JOHNS Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health joining us on the phone from

False Church, Virginia. And I must note that JOHNS Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health is supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, founder of Bloomberg LPE Bloomberg Philanthropies and this radio operation. Ru Poli, thanks so much for joining us here. Um give us a sense of kind of where you think we are really with these vaccines and how the the distribution of these vaccines I guess on a global scale really in the coming six months might look like. Thanks

so much for having me. I think we have gotten some really great news in the last couple of weeks after I think months and months of maybe not so great news, and so we're really a cited that there will be at least several candidates on the market very soon. With regards to here in the United States, we will

likely have access to the m RNA vaccines. UM. Globally, I think that will be a little bit of a different story, and that's because Cold Chaine requirements are quite um, are quite rigorous and will be much harder to transport vaccines in some lower and middle income countries. So it's interesting here. So in the US, um presumably over the next uh really beginning this this month for some areas, and then obviously in the first half of next year

kind of rolling it out. UM. One of the concerns, and I'm not sure this is a global issue or more specific to the US, is a lot of folks in the US, you know, do not take vaccines. There are not supportive of vaccines, believe that not only are they not helpful, but they might cause other problems. How are we going to deal with that in this country, do you believe? It's a great question, and it's something

that many of us have been working on. We have been very hopeful, um, you know, since the pandemic really started here in the United States in March, that we would have a vaccine product that was available. The key now is to ensure that people will will take the product with the idea that vaccines don't save lives, but vaccinations safe lives. So we have been really preparing and trying to identify barriers that people might have that would lead them to perhaps not have confidence in the vaccine.

Some of the things that we have heard is people are very worried and they feel as so that the vaccines have gone through a very quick process UM and have some concerns about the safety data. So we've been trying to be very transparent and clear that although it was an expedited process, it still went through a safety a rigorous safety and efficacy overview UM and there were

independent boards really reviewing the data. So I think the key will be, now, how can we communicate very clearly the benefits of the vaccines went went through the vaccine development process, to really communicate to the public that they are safe and that they will be able to protect you and your loved ones from COVID Based upon what we know now of the pending vaccines, what is the expectation within the health community about UM, the ethics And I guess how long this vaccine will ask is it's

something that will be akin to a flu vaccine that will need to get on an annual basis, or it will work somewhat differently, or don't don't we know? We don't really know. I think we will learn a lot in the next few months. As these start to roll out, hopefully here in December, healthcare workers actually in the next couple of weeks will start receiving UM the dosage of these vaccines. But I think it is a question that we don't quite know, but we will definitely be able

to figure out here quite rapidly as rollout starts. Essentially. One of the things I've learned just recently is as it goes to that issue of well, you guys came up with this vaccine very quickly, uh, you know, in a matter of one year or less versus a seven or eight or nine years, and that really makes me skittish. But in reality, this vaccine was built upon years and years a prior research from mers and stars and those

types of things. Do you think that should be part of the promotional campaign if you will, I think that's absolutely right. You know, we have been very lucky to sort of stand on the shoulders of giants, if you will. Right, this technology has been used in other instances, we haven't been able to use it this rapidly. UM the pandemic sort of presented an option for a number of pharmaceutical companies to use this method and approach, And I think

that is important to communicate. You know, this might be a newer technology, this might be a process of that people might say is expedited, but again it's built on, you know, an infrastructure I would say that has been developed over years and years. So that's you know, part of the story clearly, all right, So the vaccines, that's trending in the right direction. We look at the other side of the equation, the number of cases new infections.

You're at the Johns Hopkins University, one of the finest and biggest health care facilities in the world. How do you think the U s Hospital system is prepared for this wave versus maybe some of the earlier waves. I think it's a great question, and I think that you know, we're seeing We're going to have to see what happens. You know, after Thanksgiving there's a bit of a lag, as you know, with regards to being able to detect new cases as well as more severe cases that might

require a hospital stay. Um. I think I have heard from many colleagues of mine, particularly that live in the Midwest, that they are really at capacity. That you know, healthcare workers are one at their limit, but there but their hospitals, their facilities that they work at are really at capacity, and so I think the goal here is is that if we can continue to try to persuade people to to try to stay home, and we know that other holidays are coming up and people are really interested and

excited to see their families. But I think that if we can we've been doing a great job for you know, nine ish months now, if we can just do it for a little while longer while we can get the vaccine now, will really be able to make an impact with regards to just being able to save a lot of lives. So I think that's really an important point. So we're probably you're right down there literally on the on the front lines here. How are your you and your colleagues, uh in the er, in the hospital, in

the medical facility, how are they doing right now? I have to say I have the utmost respect and really bow down to several colleagues of mine that are working the front lines, are healthcare workers or emergency UM firefighters, everyone from that is doing the I just really am amazed that they're resilience. I think they are hopeful that this vaccine will roll out successfully and that people will take it. Um but I I have really been in awe and I think sort of the grit and determination

of colleagues. Yeah, it's just been a fantastic and the for their benefit. If nobody else's I would like to see the numbers go the other way, they must just be absolutely fatigued, beyond fatigued. Were probably LeMay, thank you so much for joining us for Poli's associate director for behavior Research for the Institute for Vaccine Safety. Absolutely nobody better to talk to about this vaccine. Uh. So it's great to have her on. She's at the Johns Hopkins

Bloomberg School of Public Health. Joinings on the phone from False Church, Virginia and again, uh, Bloomberg School of Public Health at Johns Hopkins is supported by Michael or Bloomberg, founder Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies and this radio operation. So again, pandemic numbers wrong way and hopefully we can get those under control soon. But on the flip side, it's a very very promising news on the vaccine front, So keep those fingers crossed for that as it gets deployed.

Bro a journal Yeah, but you let me drive Oh no, no, no, no, he's honey. Please I'll do the right let I want to drive ball, just drive baby, good question trying. This is the drive to the globe commune. Thanks, we'll drive up Don on Bluebird Radio. Bryan Kelly joins us right now, and it's a perfect timing to chat with Ryan Kelly. He's a portfolio manager Hennessy Funds. Really manages the Hennessy

Cornerstone MidCap thirty fund. We've been talking about rotation from some of the real big cap growth names since some small MidCap names into some names that maybe have lagged from evaluation perspective. So Ryan, it's great to talk to you. Give us your thoughts here on what we are seeing in terms of what neguess folks are just kind of calling this rotation trade here. What do you what do you make of it? Sure? Well, thanks for having me

on Paul Um. Yes, the uh you know, throughout this year, up until really the beginning of November, um, the stock market was driven by just a few sectors and even fewer individual stocks. I mean, if you think of I could call them Mount Fang, think of Microsoft, Microsoft, testcas, Facebook, Apple, Amazon, Netflix, and and uh and videos of both of them. And for Google. Uh, it's really a mountain in those stocks. If you look at the stock charts, they just go

straight up. Um and uh that's really what I think. Not a whole lot of people in their own portfolios, mine included, have experienced that same kind of that same kind of up, so um, it's really not reflective I think of what people in general have seen in their own portfolios. So um. I think what we had at the beginning November is you know, a capitulation where values there to outdo growth. Uh. Small definitely outperformed mid and

outperformed large both of them. Uh. And then sector that got destroyed, like energy and financials they lead the way in in November. So uh, you know, we think that that type of theme can continue going forward as well. I mean there's a certainly a lot of tension right now between where we are in the market, how far along the vaccine is, uh you know where h and when we will get another stimulus package, and there's a lot of unknowns and it creates a lot of tension

between those different forces. But I think, um that if November is any sign of what we could see next year, I think that those those trends will will continue to swap and we'll see value outperforming and small and mid outperforming as well. It's kind of where I wanted to go.

I mean, you know, one of the questions I'm getting now is, and what we're trying to kind of get a handle on it, what kind of legs does this type of market have one in which you know, you do have this rotation from what has really been a ten plus year run of big tech stocks, not that they're underperforming, but just a little bit rotation on the margin into some of these cyclical names. How long do you think this trade, if you will, works Well, that's

a good question. I mean, I think, you know, one of the it's not as much a rotation. You're right, it's more like an elastic band being pulled one direction and then the back end coming towards it. So you have a lot of underperforming sectors, a lot of underperforming stocks that are now catching up to where the market is. Uh. You know, one particular example is utilities haven't really come

back yet. Financials were lagging quite extensively, and then they just skyrocketed and event uh and that was due to you know, their their their valu valuations looks so compelling and uh, we started to realize that, you know, fundamentally the bankings is in very good shape right now. So

I think that there's still certainly more to go. I think of a lot of it has to do with uh time, And if it takes a lot longer for a vaccine to become effective, that means that you know, your your market returns are going to be more muted. So I think that's a that's a big point here. Yeah, But in the same time, you know, no good oh in the In the meantime though, I mean, we are in an environment where interest rates are completely very low.

That's very good for asset prices, it's very good for um potential pe expansion, which we're seeing here in the market. Uh and until that changes, which I don't see anytime soon. The fet is telling us they're not going to do it anytime soon. I think that there's still certainly more to go here. So all right, if we do have where to go here, what are some of the names

that you like here? Again banking on what appears to be a better economic outlook in sure, um, well, you know, in the Hennessy Cornerstone MidCap thirty fund, we we owned thirty names only, so it's a high concentration, high conviction funds. So uh, there's not a ton of names to pick from. But amongst those, you know, we have a lot of I think that you get some of the stocks that have done well this year that are cont going to continue to do well next year. In the home building space,

we have kaby homes and maritage homes. A lot of people are investing in their homes, They're spending a lot more time at home there. There's home improvement going on, so household Goods, bed Bath and beyond, Williams Sonoma Sleep Number. Those are all companies that we own uh and think

that they'll do well in the next year as well. UM. And interestingly, when it comes to that to the home building, to the home ownership space and home improvement, there is it's a really nice sizeable deal where HD s HP Supply got purchased by HD. That was the stock that we owned as well, UM, and it just shows how

much value they're still is in in that sector. You know, I've really been pleasantly surprised as we think over this last you know, call it ten months or so, given the the economic disruption we've all experienced how well the housing business has been in the U S. Post new starts, existing homes just been really really robust. Is it just simply that we're at historically low rates. I think that's that's a major part of it. I mean, there's obviously

some geographic movement going on. UM. I think that people are wanting to upgrade or even get out of certain areas in some instances. Uh, you know, we've we've seen certainly evidence of that. But you know, it's it's really just it's pretty simply it comes down to rates, and with mortgage rates as low as they are, increases affordability quite nicely for homeowners. UM. And I think people are taking advantage of that, especially since they're spending so much

more time at home. Anything in retail, that's a space that boy, it's been really tough there if they're being saved if you know, by the e commerce, but that could be an interesting spot sure. Yeah. And this is really where the value side of our investment comes in. UM. You know, we're we have a strict valuation UM discipline where we really want something trading below one and a

half times priced to sales and it's fun. So we come up with certain companies that see them a little bit counterintuitive, but um, you know b J's and Big lots for instance, retail stores. But with yep that um, those we'll keep an eye on those interesting. Hey, Ryan Kelly, thanks so much for joining us here. Ryan Kelly, Portfolio Maagine Hennessee Funds joining us on the phone from Raleigh, North Carolina. Thanks so much for listening to Bloomberth Business Week.

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