This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. All right, so, when we talk about how New York City has changed because of the virus, one of the areas where the change is rather stark is along the Great White Way Broadway in New York City's Fame Time Square area. It's home to, you know, so many theaters where millions typically flocked to every year to see shows. And while it doesn't happen often, it is happening now. The theaters are dark and have been
shut down like the rest of the city. Let's talk about that and how Broadway finds its way back post COVID nineteen. Charlotte st Martin is president of the Broadway League, and she joins us on the phone in New York City. Charlotte, nice to have you here with us. UM. First of all, I hope you're doing okay, your family, UM, and your team. I know it's a devastating time for so many it is,
and fortunately everyone is well. Early on we had quite a few of our people affected with the virus, but with the exception of Terence McNally, I think everybody has made it so we feel great well, and that really was quite a moment, his passing and just the the reminder of just how how awful this is and and certainly felt widely among those of us who have patronized Broadway over the years. I mean, I have to ask you, Charlotte,
just to to go back a little bit. What was it like sort of that moment where everything literally just sort of went dark. Well, it was probably more shocking than any business situation I've ever experienced, and I've experienced quite a few strange ones, but the fact that we were in the heat of our season. We were about to have sixteen shows open in the next four weeks when we closed that day. One was literally opening that night.
So we saw the hopes in dreams of sixteen producers and all of the casts, uh, just throttled down into pure misery that day. And some of those shows may not ever make it back or won't be back for some time sometime. And of course, with the Tony Awards coming up, this was the heat of the Tony Awards selection of nominees, so none of those shows can be
nominated at this point unless they do come back. Well, yeah, I mean, you know, it's a reminder right that these are you know, when you put together production, it's expensive. It's a lot of money up front, and I do think about, you know, financially, it's not easy for you to either to you know, kind of be on hold for a few months or even come back on the
other side. Right Well, I mean Broadway is a risky business in the best of times, and we've certainly been experiencing the best of times in the last ten to fifteen years. But it's you know, one out of four shows recoups on their investment if we're really lucky. And these are very very expensive shows. A typical musical is at least fifteen million dollars, and certainly some go thirty five million, forty million. A typical play is three to five million. And the only way they recoup is filled
those seats. And you know, you're looking at eight shows a week with anywhere from seven hundred to two thousand seats, so it takes a while just to recoup, not to mention making money, and then the unemployment and the people that have to put their careers on hold is just so sad and so devastating, I have to say. And you know, I think Jason, you'll agree, and Charlotte. One of the things that made us realize, wow, this virus going back to March was going to whole other level.
It was certainly when the sports franchises just said they were shutting down and then to see that, you know, Broadway was just shutting down completely, because these are things that just are open through almost every crisis that we've seen in the past. Um I do wonder too about workers within the theater, and I think you know, we've been trying to educate our audience to um or at least provide information when it comes to restaurants, like you know that there's not a lot of safety nets there
when things like this happen. What about within the theater industry, Well, it's very much the same way. I mean, you certainly have your stars that uh do film and television and do theater because they either started out in theater or it is their passion. But most of the people that work on Broadway and that work for Broadway, they work there because it's their passion. They almost can't do anything else because their passion is so strong. And that goes
all the way to producers. I mean, most of these shows take six eight years to just bring to life, and the blood, sweat and tears that goes into making these shows, and all of the designers and people involved while they're making it are all shut down at once. Even after nine eleven, I think Broadway was only closed for three days, and this will be at least six months, six months. That's so, that's the soonest that it comes back, right,
I mean we closed March twelve. We're talking about refunds and exchanges through September six, so in one more week that would be six months, and there's absolutely no guarantee that will be back on September six. I mean, we are in the fourth phase of the governor's plan to reopen, and a lot of that will depend upon, you know, how all of the reopenings that he goes through with all the different stages, and also, honestly, what kind of
medical treatments there are. I don't think we expect a vaccine by the fall, but there may be other things that make it easier for us to come back, but we don't know that yet. Right, there's still so many questions. We're going to come back there and continue that conversation because I am curious about some of the conversations you are having with UM public officials and others within your industry and maybe even in other industries to figure out
how do you come back on the other side. I also know you bring theater around the country, so we'll get into that too, because certainly each state is experiencing this virus to some extent. Uh differently. All right, we're talking with Charlotte St. Martin, president of the Broadway League, on the phone in New York. Will continue that conversation in just a moment. Let's continue our conversation with Charlotte St. Martin, president of the Broadway League, joining us on the phone
from New York City. And as I joked a little bit going into uh that last news update, Charlotte, I could tell from the moment you open your mouth that you are not a New York City Nate. If I can spot that lovely Texas accent from a mile away. I do want to ask you sort of what it looks like, what the theater business looks like beyond Broadway, because I know you're talking to people all around the country. Well, the Broadway League's members are in two hundred and forty
two cities where the Broadway series take place. So yes, I talked to my colleagues in Dallas and Houston and San Antonio in Austin. But the other two hundred forty, right, you talked to them too. You don't just favor them, Yeah, I do, would just stay with Texas. Uh. And it's interesting there is talk of, uh, the touring market coming back a bit faster because there are locations where they haven't been as you know, as impacted as greatly as
New York has. But like we're thinking potentially October November for the for the touring market to be up uh and beginning to to do their annual tours. And we do a lot of tours in this country. Hey, you know, Charlotte, one thing I'm wondering too, because man, we've all realized, I mean, here we are doing our four hour radio show that we normally do in this incredibly gorgeous studio back in our New York headquarters. And yet I'm at home, you know, sitting at a desk, and we're able to
do this, And I do wonder. It's interesting as we've seen more musical acts go on line and do performances for people. My daughter's giving me heads up about something. Taylor Swift is going to do a concert or an old concert and they're gonna put it online. Do you guys think about I know there's nothing like being a Broadway being in a Broadway theater and seeing a production, but I do wonder if you start to think about doing something online where people can pay and and see performances.
We just haven't adopted that method yet. It's a completely different financial model. That would basically means starting over with all of our seventeen union contracts, so that that's a significant effort. Now I can't say we will never do it.
We also have a number of producers who feel very passionately about the fact that yes, it's good to see it if you on air or online if you can't see it any other way, but that there truly is nothing like the live experience, sharing the emotional closeness with the other people in the audience. And for so many it's escape. You can't get up and go get a cup of coffee or take a phone call or whatever. And I think that's part of what makes theater special.
Is it truly is an escape, whether it's a funny escape or a happy escape. Or even drowning yourself in a tragedy. It is escape from whatever you left outside the door of that theater. So if if the emails and texts and uh tweets that we're getting are any indication, I have a feeling people will be lined up to
get back to theater once they know it. And so what are the what is this sort of the interim step look like, because obviously we're all looking forward to a day where you know, we've got this totally under control and there's a vaccine and people feel safe sort of sitting next to a stranger. Is there a middle step, Charlotte, or is this a business that really can't get back to anything resembling normal until there is a vaccine, either a vaccine or something medically or some products that make
the danger seem significantly left. I mean, we're not a business that can socially distanced. And really, for the same reason that we can't do online streaming of our shows, we'd have to redo seventeen union contracts because it's not
you can't have a audience. I've already explained that Broadway is a very risky business, and you know, one of our bigger producers socially distanced his theater on in concept and he could get of the audience he used to get, and that was not anywhere going to even cover the weekly running costs. So unless a whole new financial model is developed, and that's not only employee wages, it's theater rent, is design fees, it's all of the things that make
up Broadway. They're eighty different careers that make a Broadway show happen. People think of actors and ushers, they don't think about all of the other people that put on a Broadway show. But our theatrical and ployees are the best in the world. But they're also the most expensive, and we would have to find a way to make that happen uh differently. So we just need our theaters to get back up full or at least almost full with those sharing audiences. You did say eighty three different careers,
Is that correct? That is wow? Yeah, it's it's massive. I have to say, having seen Hamilton's and To Kill a Mockingbird in the last year or so, um, it's just there's nothing like it. I totally agree with you, and it's I I look forward to things getting back to normal, if only for for so many reasons, but also to be able to go back, uh and see a Broadway show. Charlotte, thank you so much. We wish you well and hopefully we can check in with you again.
Charlotte Say Martin, she's president of the Broadway League, joining us on the phone in New York City. I mean, it's tough. It is tough, Jason. This is not one of those things that you can do. Partially. Yeah, I was really interested in that, and I really appreciate and I think you do to her candor on that, because there wasn't a sort of like, well we'll see and we're we're sort of, you know, experimenting with some things.
She is realistic about the fact that the model as it is currently created and as it will be for the foreseeable future, will not be socially distanced. We call this simple, we call this week reality check, right, and it was very realistic.