Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - September 30th, 2022

edition of Bloomberg Business Week. Well, this past week definitely marked by volatility and stocks, yes, of course, also though big time in treasuries and currencies, in particular the U S dollars still going strong though, and that is the subject of our cover story. We'll get to that in just a moment. Also ahead, why the US is bracing for a new round of divisive Supreme Court clashes. We'll also talk with the author of a new book on the Proud Boys and the growing threat of extremism here

in America. Plus, we got some great insight from America Online co founder and startup investor Steve Case. He talked with us about where the nation will find its next wave of tech innovators. You might be surprised, and we're gonna introduce you to a brand new program from our friends at Bloomberg quicktake. It's called Crypto I r L and it's co hosted by none other than you, Tim. We've got a great season coming up. Katie Greifeld is the co host of it, and we sat down with

Melton Demors in our first episode. She's the chief strategy officer of coin Shares. We asked her if the crypto industry o's investors an apology for the months long downturn in digital assets. But you've got to stick around to hear what she has to say. All of that to come. We begin with the cover story in the magazine's finance section. It's all about the unstoppable US dollar and why the US Federal reserves focus on taming inflation is inflicting a

world of pain on other economies. We've talked about this a lot on air, from More Return to Bloomberg News, Bond and Efex reporter Liz McCormick. The whole world has this major inflation problem, right, of course, that's why the Fed is focused on tightening, and that's why we have

such a strong dollar, among some other reasons. But all these other countries have this historic inflation as well, and their currency is weakening, actually lifts inflation, you know, because it brings up in poor prices is and it's it's inflation are So it's kind of the exact thing they don't want. You know, in the old days, we'd have

currency wars. Everyone wanted a stronger currency. Now people would like a weaker one, you know, but every everybody can't you know, currency there's a pairs, right, so somebody's gotta win, and the dollars winning all over. Well, and it's interesting too, You're right. I feel like the dollar, it's not just the financial markets, but it's such a like geopolitical I

feel like instrument if you will. J. Powell and the FOMC spent a lot of time, do they in terms of looking at the dollar and the impact we talked. You know, we've had the Rettamester earlier coming out making a comment and saying basically, um, you know, we gotta keep on raising rates even in recession. So you do wonder what that Fed is like, Well, sorry, guys, we've

gotta keep doing this. We don't care what happens. Yeah, exactly, I mean they you know there, I think it was m the Fed's Boston who, similar to Mester, was talking about you know, we have to stay the course on inflation, and were like, we're aware of what's going on. You know, the UK markets fit reverberated. It could call some weakness, but basically we've got a job to do right. Inflation is too high. We have to plow onward with raising rates.

So it was Stephen Roach I was talking to from you guys go and he said to me, yeah, Liza, reminds me a Connelly. You know, these guys have been around for a long time, former Treasury secretary and he famously said, listen to the dollars are currency, and you're

a problem. And this is, you know, a super good case of that, because you know, and you know, the FED is feeling bad because they were so far behind, right, you know, kind of cut rates and stuff too low, and so I don't I think they're like, listen, we just can't risk anymore slip ups, right, so we gotta keep tightening. Liz, I do feel like we have a theme today because we talked earlier about that the FED.

You know, okay, if we're inflicting pain on investors in the in the in the public markets, financial markets, because that will help them in their inflation fight and that's the same thing, right, A strong dollar could actually help them in their fight against inflation. Can you explain that well, right, because a couple of things. Um, people usually say the US is exporting inflation, right, but also think about US companies.

You were talking about Meta and all the companies, they all do a lot abroad, So in a sense it slows the economy. It's a little bit of a headwind. Are good. You know, these companies selling abroad, their products are a little more costly. So in general, it adds to what we know. The FED wants to tighten financial conditions, which can happen through higher rates, lower you know, wider

credit spreads, lower equity valuations, and a stronger dollar. So it is one of the kind of I call it like an amalgam of things that are part of financial conditions. But a stronger dollar does do that kind of a headwind to growth, and that's what the Fed's trying to do, right, slow things down. Yeah, I think we got the message. The markets certainly have. I think the question is, you know, how much more tightening does there actually need to be

to get inflation under control? What about from the perspective of developing economies, and paying back debt and the effect that this has on the entire world. Well, yeah, that's a real problem because is um you know, if your rates are higher because part of some of these countries have had to step up the pace of their interest rate hikes, right to try to keep up with the Fed. I mean, like we said that many of them have their own inflation problem but have had to almost try

to kind of keep up, so higher rates. Mean, and it's happening to the US too. You're all paying back debt at a higher level. Um, But if they have to pay back in dollars like you're getting to that, it's harder to get that many dollars, right, So it's costing them more to pay if they have dollar denominated debt, so it can go in a various tentacles that hurt

them for sure. Do we have to be worried, Liz about you know, we've seen this in the past, right you talked about history, Um was it back in eighty five? In your story you talk about the Plaza court. I mean, do we have to be worried though about other nations working in agreement together to counter that strong US dollar? Well, of course some are trying in Unison's like you know, you guys have talked many times about the bank in Japan which had came in and intervened kind of uni

laterally trying to slow the weakness in their currency. Other countries are doing some mild intervention, but you know, not to be like like the US is everything. But for a major intervention to really have heft, the U s

would have to be involved. Were you know, so much of you know, FX trading, part of it is priced in dollars, So I mean, other countries could try to coordinate a little bit more, but what it seems like and you know, never say never, but the kind of nine five style plaza cord, you know, it isn't in the cards now. That was Bloomberg News Bond and FX reporter Liz McCormick on it. This week's cover story coming up, Well, the strong dollar, yep, it's a big macro issue for

the world. However, not necessarily top of mind for one mayor back here in the United States. He is more concerned in making sure his city is among the country's most desirable destinations for businesses. That's coming up next. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinnoby from Bloomberg Radio. We continue to spend a lot of time, and rightfully so, talking about the big

macro themes and realities facing our global economy. What we find always helpful though, in understanding our world is also checking out what is going on in our global cities, and in particular, this week we checked out our U S cities. Yeah, we zeroed in on the fourteenth largest city in the US. We're talking Columbus, Ohio. It's Mayor Andrew Ginther has participated in the Bloomberg Harvard City Leadership

Initiative along with other selected global mayors. If you're not familiar with that program, it's a collaboration between Bloomberg Philanthropies, Harvard Kennedy School, and Harvard Business School. Michael her Bloomberg is the founder of Bloomberg Philanthropies and Bloomberg LP, which is of course the parent company of Bloomberg Business Week

and Bloomberg Radio. Mayor Ginther City recently made headlines when Intel broke ground on a new semiconductor may facturing facility nearby, and we wanted to know why big business is paying so much attention to Ohio's capital. We've had a couple of incredible years with respect to economic development, job creation.

Obviously a lot of focuses on Intel and the huge impact is going to have there, But if you take a look at the last ten years the economic growth and job creation, great companies, Google, Hyperion, Facebook, and obviously Intel really is helping to drive not only Ohio but the nation's economy. And really excited about the future of growth. We want to be the most prosperous region in the country,

but we want that to be dynamic and inclusive. We want the growth and the prosperity to really involve everybody. You and all the other mayors across the United States, tell me what is it about you? And I was doing a little bit of research that you guys have never seen a dip in your population since its founding. What is it that continues to bring people there, and what do you think about in terms of strategy to

make sure that that doesn't change. You know, I think it's because we're really committed to being smart and open. We want to welcome the best and brightest, not just from around the state, but the country in the world, a place that is is welcoming, accepting. UH, that we embrace our diversity. You know, we have a hundred percent score from the Human Rights Campaign and BT is always ranked US as one of the best places for black families to raise children. So we think that that's part

of it. But also UH, the institutions of higher education. That pipeline a hundred and thirty five thousand students and undergraduate study, you know, fifty different colleges in the universities puts US in the top ten per capita for undergraduate students in America. I think that pipeline of talent also makes it a place where companies want to come and grow.

Do you employees want to be there? Though? And I asked in the context of the overturning of Roe v. Wade, And it's a question that I've posed to mayors and other states that do have very restrictive laws. Now that Roe v. Wade has been overturned. Ohio is one of those states. Abortion illegal after a heartbeat is detected, which canna be about six weeks before many women know they're pregnant. Are you concerned that that will prevent employees from wanting

to relocate there. It's one of those things that we continue to raise with our state legislature and state wide office holders and members of Congress as well. I mean, we know that for Columbus to continue to drive Ohio's economic recovery and grow our economy as a community, UH, we need to be welcoming and we need to be able to attract people from not just around the state,

but the country in the world. UH. And we believe that the jobs decision and then the actions taken by the state legislature can have a chilling effect on talent. And so it's critically important that we continue to advocate and push to make sure that central Ohio, Columbus in particular, is welcoming, accepting safe place for people from all walks of life. You know, I think what you get up every morning, there's probably so much on your plate. What

is top of mind for you? I think the next ten or fifteen years in Columbus will determine it will be some of the most consequential in our city's history. I think a hundred years from now, we'll look back at this ten or fifteen years. Did we embrace growth did we go about at it in a thoughtful, dynamic,

and inclusive way. Housing has been a huge issue. We haven't had enough housing units coming to market since before the Great Procession, and that issue is just greatly compounded over the last twelve years and now with Intel and so many others. We grew by a hundred thousand people in ten years. We're going to grow by two hundred thousand probably in the next ten and so we need housing.

And luckily we have the public sector, the private sector, higher education, everyone working together to make sure housings are number one priority. I gotta tell you, Carol, we were driving through Columbus. Yeah you got you know this area? Well, yeah, my wife is from Cincinnati. We drove back and forth between Cincinnati. Recently, we're driving through Columbus just a few weeks ago, and she said, this is unbelievable. She went

to Ohio State. She said, all of this when I was in college was corn And I mean, I'm talking about areas that are now homes, office buildings, new highways that have been built. How do you do this though in a sustainable way. You did mention that housing even an issue, and we're talking about a place that that does have quite a bit of land. Yeah, it's really important that we act aggressively and bring public in private.

One of the things I've called for and might say the city this year was to double the number of units coming to market at every price point, because we need housing at every price point every year for the next fifteen years. And collectively invest a billion dollars into two housing over the next fifteen years so that we

can grow that way, you know, dynamically, but inclusively. And thinking about that lens of equity, how do we make sure that the people who have made our city and our neighborhoods so special and so great are able to age in place. Well, how has your kind of broad I think I should say, not rethink, but think about the economy, certainly your economy specifically, how has it changed post pandemic or how has the pandemic impacted it? Well,

it's it's a real challenge. So only about one percent of local governments in America are funded by income tax. Eight percent of our general fund cops, firefighters, public health, folks on the front lines, those people are funded by income tax revenue. And remote work clearly has turned things on its head, you know, whether a third of folks are going to be returning, may not return at all,

maybe in a hybrid. So that's a challenge for us, and continuing to figure out how we can plan for the future and invest as we grow as a city when income tax revenue is so up in the air.

So we're working with the governor, in the state legislature and others, you know, not rushing into anything, but looking at the data and how you know income tax revenue and the taxation system will overall has been impacted by the pandemic because we know that the cities in Ohio drive Ohio's economies and and folks understand that regardless of their party, and so for the cities to continue to grow and thrive, they've got to be attractive places for

people to live. So if you could enact something new when it comes to income tax policy, what would it be I think looking specifically at the data and seeing how folks who are working in a hybrid or maybe come to the office a few times a week. You know, how that revenue could be shared amongst world different municipalities in partnership with the state, UH functional ownership of some of the basic city services and The most important thing

right now is let's not rush into anything. Let's not make decisions until we have good data, good information to base the rationale and decision making. And we're working with our folks already with that are major employers across the state as well, because they need great cities to attract top talent as well. That was Columbus Ohio Mayor Andrew Ginther. He's a staple of the Bloomberg Harvard City Leadership initiative.

It's a collaboration between Bloomberg philanthropist, Harvard Kennedy School, and Harvard Business School. Well, as you just heard, we touched on the Supreme Courts rov weight reversal with Mayor Ginther still had on Bloomberg Business Week a story in the magazine about how the US Justices are about to get back to work this coming week with several other highly divisive cases on the docket. A breakdown of what to

expect from the High Courts new term. Next, this is Bloomberg broadcasting from the financial capital of the World, Bloomberg You Love in Frio in New York to Washington, d C. Bloomberg to Boston, Bloomberg one oh six one to San Francisco, Bloomberg nine sixty to the country, Sirius XM Chado one nineteen, and around the globe, the Bloomberg Business app and Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This is Bloomberg business Week On Monday.

The U Supreme Court is back in session and on the docket cases covering everything from the right to vote, jerrymandering, affirmative action, and also gay rights. There's a variety of topics to him. A common threat among them maybe the likely clashes among those who sit on America's highest court

and the millions of people their decisions will affect. This story is in the Remark section of the new issue of Bloomberg business Week, and the editor of Bloomberg Business Week, Joe Webber, joins us once again along with Bloomberg New Supreme Court reporter Greg Store. There may not be a single case quite as big as the Dob's case that overruled the constitutional right to abortion, but we're gonna have a huge college affirmative action fight coming up on October one.

There are a couple of very big voting cases involving partisan jerrymandering and so called racial gerrymandering. We've got cases involving gay rights, and whether people have a business owners have a free speech right too to say I don't want to take part in the same sex wedding. All these things are the kind of cultural issues that you know, divide the country and divide the court increasingly in a

conservative way. So, Greg, what's the one that you think is going to be Probably, well, it's back up here, right, Like we've had this sort of court that was a little bit more balanced in decisions. What are the decisions, you know, the cases that you kind of just rattled off there, where's the power imbalanced? Start to look like, well, you know, you look at the Affirmative Action case for example, that is actually two cases before the Supreme Court, one

involving Harvard, one involving the University of North Carolina. And this case takes direct These appeals take direct aim at and two thousand three Supreme Court decision that reaffirmed that universities can use race as an admissions factor for the sake of enhancing diversity on campus. And that's something that

the large majority of selective universities do. They say, if you overturn that, uh, it's going to have a devastating effect on their ability to make sure there's a significant number of black and Hispanic and Native American students on campus. You know, that's a case where you can see this court's change of membership. The three Trump appointees who made the court more conservative. You can see that that that

they're very likely going to make a difference. It's a case actually where Chief Justice John Roberts, who we we know in some cases has not been willing to go as far as some of those conservative colleagues on this issue. He's kind of been in the vanguard saying, um, I believe in a color blind constitution. The constitution doesn't permit racial discrimination, and he has suggested he sees these race

conscious admissions as racial discrimination. What's interesting there, though, is what we learned last time is that Roberts has maybe his own man on this court. That you've got several justices to the to the right of him and several to the left, and that also, you know, you have this line here that the Court faces at least the spectrum of a legitimacy crisis, if not a full blown one. Talk about what that means. You know, the Court going its own way here and and sort of America the

American public's reaction to that. Well, let's start with the American public reaction. We've seen decline in confidence in the courts, declining the court's approval ratings, not surprisingly but noteworthy. That's especially with with Democrats. Overwhelmingly Democrats now say they disapprove

of the Supreme Court. And over the summer and a couple of different presentations, Justice Helena kay In one of the liberal justices, without actually naming names and talking about particular cases, but she talked about what in her mind creates a legitimate legitimacy problem for a court, and she talked about, um, you know, if you have the same issue being decided a different way because the court's membership has changed, and one could certainly think about cases like

the abortion cases as fitting into that category. And so when you have a justice on the court, you know, at least raising that that spect. You know, it's certainly something for you know, all of them to pay attention to. Creig. I want to dive into the elections that a little bit and how elections could shift under the Supreme Court, what what could they do specifically to make it so

State Supreme courts have a different hand in elections. Yeah, so there are two big election cases, and the one involving state supreme courts has to do with a North North Carolina redistricting fight. And so let me just back up for a second. Remember a few years ago, the Supreme Court said, we have the Supreme Court interpreting the U. S. Constitution. Don't have authority to say that voting districts are so partisans or unconstitutional. They said that sort of partisan jurymandering

claim doesn't fly in federal court. But they left open the possibility that a state supreme court could say, hey, under our state constitution, Uh, these districts you've drawn are unconstitutional. And that's what happened in this North Carolina case. And now the question at the Supreme Court, and it could be a really far reaching one, is whether then the US Constitution limits what a state supreme court can do.

The U. S. Constitution, when it talks about drawing districts and setting voting rules for congressional elections, says that the power to do that lies with the state legislature. Uh. And so the question is whether the North Carolina Supreme Court kind of overstepped its bounds in doing something that only the North Carolina State legislature can do. That's Bloomberg New Supreme Court reporter Greg Store along with the editor of Bloomberg Business Week. Tell Wether you're listening to Bloomberg

Business Week. Up next, a new book shines a light on the nation's most notorious far right group, how the Proud Boys created a new blueprint for extremism and turned American politics into a blood sport after the election. It's coming up next. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes to m from Bloomberg Radio. This past week is scheduled hearing about the January six committee that's investigating attack on the U. S.

Capitol was postponed because of Hurricane Ian. Once we schedule that could conclude the committee's presentations of investigative findings before a final report, let's do out later this year. One of the things the panel is examining is how far right groups like the Proud Boys may have influenced the takeover and protest. Writing about the rise of this group and its role in American extremism is Andy Campbell, investigative reporter for huff Post this is someone who you brought

to our attention to him. This is somebody who worked with Yeah, we worked together years ago. But when Andy and I worked together, he wasn't covering the Proud Boys or the extreme right here in the US. Well, he certainly is now. In Andy's new book is called We Are Proud Boys. How a right wing street gang ushered in a new era of American extremism. He joined both of us in studio to talk about the group's origins

and where it goes from here. During Donald Trump's Rye is a reactionary talk show host named Gavin McGinnis who was also co founder of Vice Media. He sort of gets kicked out of of Vice Media for his awful, awful rhetoric with the company, um and, he takes his audience with him, starts his own show called The Gavin McGinnis Show, um and and doubles down on this misogynist, bigoted rhetoric and to his audience, he's pelting them with bigoted tenants. Um One of his tenants was to quote

venerate the housewife. He thought that women and women in the workplace were responsible for the end of masculinity. He also gave them a tenant to accept that white men were responsible for the success of Western culture. So he's pelting them with these sort of white supremassist ideologies. And he takes that audience and decides, I'm going to activate these guys. I'm going to build them into a gang.

And he called them the Proud Boys, and he told them, you are going to take Trump and the GEOP He's grievances, and you're gonna get out there and do what the krusty old hats of the GOP won't do and fight them out in the street. And you know, six years later, they've been involved in so many acts of political violence over the years. I mean, these guys UM were involved in Unite the Right attacks in cities across the country, and of course their outsized role in the January six insurrection.

UM so his small time gang that started here in New York City, UH came to be known as the National Architects of of January six. And he helped me out here because I feel like extreamist groups have always been with us right UH, in our US culture, and yet I feel like you didn't necessarily hear about them or you know, and this is a group that's out there, and you think about the impact that they've had on our culture and our society. What's different. Well, the Proud

Boys were smart. After the Unite the Right rallies of charle Utsville, which they had a hand in, they realized that just being uh you know, sort of a fighting hate group wasn't gonna last very long. A lot of the groups that took part in the United the Right rallies dissolved immediately after that because people were like those

guys are Nazis. And the Proud Boys got a new leader named Enrique Tario, who was very well connected in the political scene in Florida, uh so connected in fact that he was friends with Roger Stone, Trump's top confidant. Enriquetario told me he realized we needed to become a more political machine. If we're going to position what we want to do, which is the violence right as as something you know, regular Americans on the right we'll see as patriotic, as as defenders of Trump against what they

describe as the leftist threat in the street. And so he turned them into a more political monster and positioned what they do as protected speech and and and patriotism. Where are you seeing the rhetoric that you write about in this book seep into American political discourse. Inside Washington d C. You hear a politician speak and are there cases where you say that is something that I've heard from Gavin McGinnis. I think Gavin McGuinness echoes the GOP

and and and vice versa. I mean, Gavin pushed UH, anti immigration, anti Muslim rhetoric and what he wants them to do, and what they have done in the years since Gavin has kind of stepped aside, is that they take the GOP and and Fox News is rhetoric as marching orders. So, for example, over the summer, the Proud Boys have been going to Drag Queen's story hours across

the country and showing up to intimidate people. They showed up to an event in Nevada at a public library that had been going on for years, but one of them brought a rifle and started making their way toward the door. Parents and children screamed and and and ran.

This is happening at a rapid clip um. But it's no surprise that Fox News all summer has been railing against lgbt Q, against drag Queens, and you know, characterizing them as groomers, as coming for your children, and so it mirrors the rhetoric where the Proud Boys are looking at you know, Fox News and Donald Trump and saying this is what we need to go out there and put violence to Andy. When when you and I were working together at Hugh Post, you were not writing about, uh,

the Proud Boys. You were not writing about American extremism. How did you come to start writing about it? And why write this book? I was a street level crime reporter back when we worked together, and you know, I covered acts of violence across the country. During Trump's rise, those acts of violence made their way into politics. Through the rise of Donald Trump, we saw any number of extremist groups coming together under the banner of Trump thinking

that they had an ally in the White House. And the that stood out to me were the Proud Boys. Because these guys wanted to be lionized for their violence, they wanted to talk to the press, they were proud of what they did um and so focusing on them turned out to be a good bet because now they orbit so many acts of political violence, including January six, and so as January six was happening, and as they continued their violence despite a lot of their leaders going

to jail. I realized that this is the warning shot that we need to write that going forward, this cycle of political violence held aloft by the GOP and and media UH is going to continue. And so that's why I wrote it. Is there a typical demographic of an individual who is a proud boy? Proud boys are of a lot of ideologies. There's Neo Nazis and people of color within them, but the majority of them are white guys who are angry and want to fight out Trump's grievances.

How much is also that they feel like they've just been left behind in this economy. I think there's an element of that, but again it's the violence that they're aiming for through those grievances. You know, as I was thinking about you coming on listening to you talk, I mean, is this our ku klux Klan in terms of our times? Ku Klux Klan? Is that how we need to think about it? There are absolute comparisons to be made. I mean, this is a force that is racist at its core.

They've made inroads with politics, and they've made inroads with the American public, but with the clan You have to remember, the clan didn't lose power because people rebuffed them. The clan lost power because so much of the American public shared that ideology that they weren't really needed anymore. And and that's the fear going forward with these guys, is that you know, enough people are going to see political violence as a normalized option in politics that the Proud

Boys may not be needed. You say racist, but it's not all just white members, right, All Proud Boys are not just white. I get asked about this a lot. And you know, the Proud Boys. First of all, they're racist at their core. Right, Gavin gave them a tendant that they have to accept if they join. Anybody can join, but they have to accept that white men are responsible for the success of the West. And there are people

of color. There are also Neo Nazis and the Proud Boys, but they are all gathering under this banner of getting to fight out their rage in the street against the left and against Trump's opponents, and that can create strange bedfellows. Just just last weekend, Nazis joined Proud Boys in Texas

for a Drag Queen Story Our event. They were protesting and and also on top of that, the very few people of color that are members of the Proud Boys are held aloft constantly by the Proud Boys as evidence that they're they're not racist, they're not white supremacists, and that has served to put a veil in front of them when they're confusing the media and law enforcement. Hey, Andy,

over the summer. Back in June, we saw footage emerged from Idaho about the Patriot Front gathering to protest an lgbt Q event, And I'm wondering where the relationship is between Patriot Front, Proud Boys, and other sort of right wing extremists. Help us kind of untangled that web right, that this is a machine and a cycle of extremism that we're seeing in front of us right now. For example, q and on conspiracy theorists and Alex Jones type plant a seed that satanic pedophiles in the form of drag

queens are coming for your children. Donald Trump and Fox News sanitize and grow that seed for their audiences, push it out to millions of people, and then the extremist street groups like the Proud Boys, Patriot Front, oath Keepers who are also big on January six, come to burn it all down, and so the Proud Boys, I see them as both normalizers of political violence but also the pointy end of this extremism machine. Now, if you lop off one of those parts, there is somebody they're already

ready to take take it on. And and the scary part about what we're seeing now is that every Americans are joining these extremist groups in the streets. That was tough, post investigative reporter Andy Campbell. Check out his new book, We Are Proud Boys? How are right wing street gang ushered in a new era of American extremism? I gotta say this interview, I could have talked for so long about this and what he was learning about this group.

I think it's important that all Americans have an understanding, right, And I think a big part of it, too, is it's not just extremism, right, it's increasingly becoming mainstream, which I think is really scary. We're seeing it in a lot of places now. That's a really really good point. All right, everybody. That wraps up our first hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio.

I'm Carol Masser and I'm Tim Stanibek. Ahead in our next hour, we'll preview a brand new show on Bloomberg Quicktake called Crypto I R L. And we got a telling excerpt from an interview we did with coin Shares chief strategy officer melt Them demares that straight ahead, looking forward to that, plus how American industrial giant US Steel is going green Yep, you heard that right, going green despite producing one of the world's most carbon intensive metals.

Will also sit down with tech luminary Steve Case. We talked about where the next wave of American innovation will come from. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and tech news as it happened. Sloomberg Business Week with Carol Messier and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim

Stinovik on Bloomberg Radio. Plenty of head in our second hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week, including a conversation with America Online co founder Steve Case on his pursuit of the next big technological breakthrough and the surprising place it may come from. Plus u S Steel is setting its sights on a smaller carbon footprint. We'll talk to the company's head of sustainability about mitigating the impact of one of our dirtiest medals. It really is

all right. First up this hour a new program from our colleagues at Bloomberg Quicktake Crypto I r L making its debut on Friday. It is co anchor by none other than Tim along with Bloomberg's Katie Greifeld. Yeah, and it's part of our first episode. Katie and I spoke with Melton Demure's she's the chief strategy officer of coin Shares. It's been a tough stretch for investors since a bitcoin hit its highs last winter. I mean everybody I could think of other words. Yea two trillion dollars in wealth

wiped out. Well, we asked melt him at industry players. So anyone an apology after talking up crypto after all of the losses being publicly listed is not a barometer of quality. It's a barometer if you having filled out the appropriate work paperwork and having provided financials and the level of transparency that will allow investors to make an informed decision. Right, So this is about people making informed decisions.

I think the challenge with crypto is so many people in one especially we saw this in two thousand eighteen and before then in two thousand fourteen, so many people view crypto, and so many people online marketed crypto as a way to get rich quick. So people were marketing a lot of these things as an easy button. And as you and I and everyone knows, there is no

easy button. Um And I think the challenges that a lot of people had incentives to market certain things is safe to encourage people to invest in certain things, and also people don't want to do their diligence. I got the point I'm making, And what I'm trying to illustrate is this is not a phenomenon that's unique to crypto. It exists in all parts of the market. Can I just say to maybe defend the crypto industry a little bit more, think about the traditional currency industry, for ex.

Scammers on Instagram, I just can't. I want before basically crypto explode in the way it did in the pandemic. So my favorite accounts on Instagram were these like four X scammers like flexing like their guccis and but you're not seeing those advertising the Super Bowl. No, but so did. It did reach a different level. But some are you saying, well, I mean four excammera is different from like coin based buying a super Bowl ad, right, which, by the way,

I love that Super Bowl ad. Was that the cure? It was just the QR code bouncing around. I'm kind of a vallor move to spend millions of dollars on a little So it sounds like the I mean, in your opinion, the industry does not have anything to apologize for. It's more like, I think apologize as a challenging word. I think there are certain individuals who may be behaved in a way that is not great. But I'm not a judge, I'm not a jury, I'm not an executioner.

I do my best to not engage in that behavior. I never tell people invest in this, by this, do this, So I can't speak for that. I'm not the moral compass of the industry. Again, another challenge like it's decentralized, its leaderless by its very nature. I think it's very difficult for anyone individual and to ty to sort of claim moral superiority, including the government. By the way, for this very precise. It's a slippery sloff. I understand what

you're trying to arrive at. I do think that certain executives of certain companies that lost the millions tens of millions, billions of dollars of consumers funds, they definitely have explaining to do, and I do think they'll be help to account because the company exists under a legal structure in a jurisdiction with protocols. But you have a really cool story where you recognize something early on when it came to bitcoin. What did you see? When did you see it?

And I mean, yeah, and how much bitcoin did you buy? That? Nice try? I r s, Okay, you're not going to tell us how much bitcoin you bought. No, I'm never going to tell you that, okay, But what was the price of bitcoin when you first got in? When I got in, I was around a hundred fifty dollars. And then I went through period where when I first started working, I was making less than I had before grad school and I was in a lot of debt because I had had a scholarship for my company to go to

grad school. And then I didn't come back, so I lived in a rat infest department in New York, and I used every paycheck to buy more bitcoin, and then the price of bitcoin went from three hundred dollars two d twenty dollars and I did not feel great about my life choices. But it was really funny because people look at it now and they're like, oh, did you

have some intuition? And I'm like, no, I just thought it was really interesting that people I was interacting with like I'd never interacted with people like that before professionally, and I was like, this is wild, it's fun. It's really crazy and insane. See I would have said, yes, I did have intuition, and I can see the future and you're not a part of it. And it was fun.

You know what I miss? There is a certain joy in believing something that no one else believes in and willing to grind to like prove that you were right. Are those days over? Though? Well? You can make those kind of outside returns on a coin of crypto. I

don't think it's a coin anymore. I think where the world is shifting to do you think what is going to generate outside returns is capturing and creating by the way trends, So I do think identifying emerging cultural movements or communities are really and investing in the financialization of those cultural movements is going to be huge thematic trend, and so that is really interesting. It's one that a

lot of people aren't talking about, aren't looking at. So I do think there's still opportunities, They're just not going to be as easy because there's a lot more capital, there's a lot more people. So you have to be willing to go where other people won't go. And Lucky for me, I like really weird people. I like really weird things, and I'm willing to bet enormous amounts of money on really crazy ideas. But I think that's where

the returns will continue to be. That was Melton Demers, the chief strategy officer of coin Shares with Me and Katie Greifeld. Catch the full interview on a Bloomberg Quick Take. New episodes of Crypto I R L or Fridays at eight pm Wall Street Time on Bloomberg Quicktake and at eight thirty p m on a Bloomberg TV. You can also see them at Bloomberg dot com slash qt y I r L. It means in real life, I'm so not with it. I r L. I'm so sorry. Oh god. Alright,

good to know. Crypto something we talked about with Steve Case by the way this past week. Coming up here, why a O L. Co found Steve Kay says the next big idea, though, will come from the American Hartland. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes.

Tim Spinnoby from Bloomberg Radio. Well known investor, innovator and author. Steacases, of course, the co founder of America Online, really changed the world in so many ways if you go back to the early days of the Internet. He's, of course also chairman and CEO Revolution. That's his investment firm that backs entrepreneurs at every stage of their development. His roughly one billion dollars worth of investments in growth stage companies

include Sweet Green, Draft, Kings, Clear and more. He's also Carol got a new book out. It's entitled Rise of the Rest, How entrepreneurs and surprising places are building the New American Dream. I love how he started the conversation. You specifically began by asking Steve about how the inspiration he's drawn from his years on the road, going around in a bus in search of the next big idea. Every time I've interviewed you, basically from fourteen to twenty,

you were on a bus. Yeah, and this is the this is the second time I've gotten to interview you where you haven't actually been on a bus. This book is about Yeah, it really isn't defending a better part of a decade traveling around the country trying to see what's happening in terms of innovation entrepreneurship in different parts of the country, meeting hundreds of entrepreneurs, visiting dozens of cities,

now making investments in about a hundred cities. I was just so fascinated bout what I saw and so frankly encouraged by what I saw. I said, I have to tell the story. I have to share these stories. And that's what led me to write the book, trying to really kind of help people understand what's happening not just in a few places like Silicon Valley, but all over the country, which I think boats well for the next

phase of innovation in this country. What are we missing by ignoring what's going on in the heart of the country. Steve Well a bunch of things. First of all, some of the biggest industries up for grabs, and this next wave, what I call the Internet third wave, like healthcare, some of the expertise you need, some of the partnerships you need are in the middle of country. Mayo Clinic in Minnesota is important. That Cleveland Clinic, Ohio is important. M

Danners in Texas is important. Also for some industries, like the trucking and logistics industry, getting people who understand that business that are in those communities are important. One of the stories I talked about in Chattanooga is its company called Freight Waves kind of does Bloomberg for trucking and logistics. Well, guess what I didn't know. Still, we visited with our bus.

But some of the biggest trucking companies in America are based in Chattanooga, So it actually better place to be for that business than than New York City or another one acre trader in northwest Arkansas and Fayetteville. The founder actually working a head fund in San Francisco, decided to move to Arkansas because his business called is basically a platform to invest in farmland, and you need to get

farmers to put their farms on the platform. Well, he thought it'd be better to be closer to the farmers, and therefore in Arkansas. So a lot of these stories that they surprised people. It certainly surprised me, and I think people in the book will will be equally surprised by how many things are happening in how many different places, most of which she's never visited. It's not just the Easterns.

You know what's funny, Steve is. Twenty four hours ago, Andrew Ginther, the mayor of Columbus, Ohio, was sitting in the seat that you're sitting in right now, and he was basically saying the same thing, and he talked about the acceleration of what happened during the pandemic and the way that people moved away from the coast to other parts of the country because they were able to work remotely. You've been doing this and looking at this for what

the better part of a decade at this point. Um, How did the pandemic change the way that people thought about geographies when it came to innovation, Well, you're right, it was bubbling for most of the last decade. Every year, every time we did another tour, we would see more progress in more places, but the pandemic was a tipping point.

It really was sort of when people took a step back and said, where do I want to live and how do I want to live, and how do I want to work and kind of remote work, hybrid work, things like that led to some people decided to move someplace else and instead of just being in San Francisco, just being in New York or just being in Boston, which have been the historical, you know, kind of tech hubs, a lot of people moved to other parts of the country and attracting that talent is critical to fuel those

start up communities. Interestingly, over the last several decades, we've seen a brain drain in this country. Most people in Silicon Valley over people in Selicon Valley are from someplace else. They didn't grow up there, that they didn't go to school there, They're from someplace else. Uh, they went there because that's where the opportunity was, that's where the capital was.

And that we're seeing a slow slowing of that brain drain of people leaving in different parts of the country and a little bit of a boomerang of people returning in Columbus is a great example. A lot of moments in there. What are the trends and ideas that I don't know whether it's five years from now, ten years from now, or twenty years where you make the investment today and it's gonna be a big part of the world.

How should we be thinking about that? What kind of catches your interest when you think about I think it is the most important aspects of our lives, which I think I think I wrote the book previous book, the Third Wave. It talked about the first wave of getting everybody online. The second wave was soft on top of the Internet. The third wave was going to be the

Internet meeting the real world. That's the phase where in so are talking about head things like healthcare of food and agriculture, transportation, financial services, a lot of different things that that are being reimagined. So that's the first place to focus and then recognize that some of the partners you need, some the expertise you need is not on the coast. It is in these different parts of uh the country, and either start there or or move there

to really capitalize on that expertise. There's a lot of examples of people deciding to move one. Actually somebody who started in New York City a company called Temper Back Weed Backed. It's focused on sustainable packaging. Style foams terrible for the environment, but people have to keep stuff cold, whether it's food companies or farmer companies. They created a better packaging and they moved to Richmond, Virginia to launch

that company. And just a few months ago Goldman Sachs led a hundred forty million dollar round that company in Richmond, Virginia. So that's an example of looking for a better way and then saying even though they were in New York or the Acre Trader founder was in San Francisco, saying, is that the best place for me to launch that company?

And more and more situations we're finding that's not the right answer, and entrepreneurs are going to other places too, and that's why the rise of the rest is accelerating. One word I didn't hear come out of your mouth

yet has been crypto. And the reason I thought of it is because you talked about the first wave in the second wave, and I think a lot of people might hear that think, okay, well, Web one, a oll Web two applications on top of that, access to the Internet, Facebook, Phase three Wave three, Web three, crypto, in the metaverse.

It's interesting that you define that third wave as being something that's real, something that's physical where the Internet actually meets the real world, not necessarily us being transformed into this sort of virtual world. Yeah, and I think there are a lot of interesting things bubbling in Web three, which has become a rather large and very basket of things running from crypto, bitcoin, blockchain, n f t S, metaverse, a lot of different things. Uh, some of those will

end up scaling and being pretty significant. Others will end up not having the attraction that people thought, which is always the case when there's there's new technologies. And I can relate particularly on the metaverse point, because we launched the first graphical kind of multiplayer game kind of a metaverse, a virtual world over thirty years ago in partnership with

Lucasfilm thirty five years ago. It's called Lucasfilm's Habitat was for common or sixty four computers and three modems and basically are walking around living in I totally know what they know. But but the point is that things like the metaverse are evolutions of things that were started earlier which is again always the way it is. So I think there's some really interesting things bubbling in that space.

I think that is a real focus now, and what are the things that really are going to scale and how do you simplify some of these got a lot of people are confused by the varied options. That's revolution Chairman and CEO Steve Case his new book out now. It's called Rise of the Rest. How entrepreneurs and surprising places are building the new American Dream. Still to come. On Bloomberg Business Week, US Steel has plans to clean up the world's dirtiest and most widely used battle. The

company's head of sustainability joins us. On the other side. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. And this is Bloomberg broadcasting from the financial capital of the world, Bloomberg eleven Frio in New York to Washington, d C. Bloomberg to Boston, Bloomberg one oh six one to San Francisco, Bloomberg nine sixty to the country Sirius XM Chado one nine team and around the globe the Bloomberg Business app and Bloomberg

Radio dot Com. This is Bloomberg Business Week. About seven percent of global greenhouse gas emissions come from the production of steel, which is also the most widely used metal on the planet. So the question is how do we mitigate the damage. Erica Chan is the general manager of sustainability at US Steel, the industrial stalwart valued at more than four billion dollars, and it's using some of that wealth to help it meet its corporate responsibility to protect

the environment. Bloomberg Market senior reporter Katie Graifield and I asked Erica exactly how the company is try transitioning to cleaner manufacturing practices. Steel is made in one way, which is a traditional way of integrated steelmaking that's been done for over a hundred twenty years, where you have a blast furnace, a lot of gradings supporting, and then you've

got liquid iron coming out and eventually steel um. But the newer technology uses what is called electric arc furnace technology, and that is what is referred to as many mills, and that has a lower carbon footprint, up to about seventy reduction in carbon footprint for steel. So one of the interesting things about steel is it's definitely recyclable. It loses none of its properties, and so I like to

say that is that energy intensive? Go to recycle it? Um, you know, we actually use it as an energy source. So up to eight of scrap steel can be used in our electric arc furnaces. So we've been practicing circular economy before circular economy became a thing. Um. We recycled last year were five point tween million tons of steel and scrap. And so if I look at your notes, this stat really jumped out to me. That steel is of course in emissions intensive sector, counting for roughly seven

percent of global greenhouse gas emissions globally. And again I'm a little shaky on the science, but the process you just described what's realistic if we think about where that seven percent can could go to. So you know, it's going to take a communation things. You know, we know we can't do it alone, right, one company can't do

it alone. It's we've got to come together, and a lot of things have to happen, like government funding, you know, policy to support it um, improved regulations and all of that. But I think that the really important thing on getting to that is exploration of technologies that can help us get there, like green hydrogen. Have you heard of green hydrogen? I have heard Degree Andy marsh On our program works

a lot with hydrogen and work with companies all over. Yeah, so the availability of green hydrogen is going to help lower the intensity of steelmaking. UM. A lot of other technologies like electrification, UM direct reduced iron with hydrogen, A lot of different technologies need to come to maturity and carbon capture, utilization storage as well. So, Erica, I want to talk more about sustainability of course at U S Steel and specifically about the plan to eliminate carbon emissions

from steel production. UM. Is it is it too early to completely like how do you guys completely comply with e A S and like go to many males that use all the scrap steel to remail into new steel, talk about how that works. Yeah. So you know, we have we acquire a Big River Steel which actually was the first lead certified steel mill in the US UM and it's also the first US based steel site to be responsible steel certified. So UM that is our first electric arc furnace along with the one that we have

a ver tubular business in Fairfield, Alabama. So the journey there is that it's it's a combination of utilization of this improved technology for steelmaking, but as well as investing in UM technologies that can help actually decarbonize so UM carbon capture realization and storage. That's one method as well. We talked about green hydrogen earlier. UM electrification of the grid because steel is so energy intensive, you know, we need more renewable energy in the grid and the grid

infrastructure that can support that expanded power need. So UM, those are some of the ways that we're looking at it. When it comes to carbon capture with the current furnaces, you have the current blast furnaces. Does that work? What

research have you done there? Yeah? So UM. We actually have formed some partnerships and alliances we're bringing together in a noncompetitive environment like Pierce in Academia UM as well as government agencies to look at how do we escale and how do we implement that infrastructure because it doesn't exist in a in a scale at a level that we would need, you know, to cover all of the least finn assess that our an operation today in the US.

What is the role of the government here and to what extent does the US government need to step in and actually help you and other American steel companies get to net zero? Yeah? Absolutely, I mean, I think we've seen big signal from the government, um just in the past few weeks, right with the IRA and I think that's going to be a good first forward movement into making sure that the US government enables the various levels that we need to to carbonize across a number of

different industries. And so, what kind of relationship, what kind of conversations do you have with politicians with the White House? What does that look like? Yeah, well, we actually welcome engagement from policymakers on all levels, federals, you know, we work very local in our communities as well, and it's it's looking at the policies that can enable like clean energy, right,

like renewable incentives for renewable energy, infrastructure and development. So we do work with regulators and administrators and various agencies at a federal and stand loobal level. That was Erica Chan, she's the general manager of sustainability at US Steel. She joined me and Katie Greifeld in studio. You're listening to

Bloomberg Business Week. Coming up the sweet spot when it comes to car collectors this year, wine Harvest and a geographical gem six hundred miles off the Portuguese Coast, we check in with the Bloomberg Pursuits team. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovik from Bloomberg Radio. It is time now for our weekly dive into the Pursuit section of Bloomberg Business Week magazine. And we're so pleased to

have with us straight from the West Coast. Now on the East coast. Right now, one of our favorite people and favorite writers, Bloomberg Pursuits Auto columnist Hannah Elliott. She's also, as we know, and we always say, got a pretty amazing beat. Yes, I agree, I won't argue with you on that fun stuff. How do you ever do anything? I would never leave this. It's honestly easier now that I'm on the West coast. It's very focused. It's all

cars all the time, so it's actually even easier. Well, you've got the lead story in this week's Pursuit section. You interview vintage car collectors about how they got their favorite rides. Um, we've got the editor of the section with us as well, Chris Rousers, joining us by phone. So Chris, the series that Hannah is doing. How did

it come to be? You know, Hannah talks to car collectors all the time, and she is a classic car collector herself, and you know, she always talked about how people have these great stories about how they got the car, why they chose the car. And Hannah loved interesting cars, not just like the really expensive three million dollar into Ferrari, Like she likes people to have a beat up car that has a story. And finally she just pitched the idea like, why don't I just do a column and

we'll call it how did you get that car? And I said, that is a great idea. Do it all right? So had to come on in on, UM, tell us about the person you really profile in depth who has Actually I love hearing about a car, but I also loved hearing about her backstory. She's incredible. Her name is

Sarah Tremble and she's a stunt driver. And so when you talk about bullet train euphoria, um a lot of the Star Trek piccard shows and then hundreds, literally hundreds of car commercials, including if you will remember the Super the Dog Driving Family, and the Suber who was actually

Sarah driving. She explained to me that She's in a black hoodie pulled tight over her eyes, and she's wedged herself backwards in the bottom of the suber and the dog is standing on her, and so the dogs on top, and she's driving with her hands and feet on pedals and it's the whole thing. And then the dog would like accidentally hit the windshield White Birds, and they have to go around the block and do it again. She said that the dogs were very professional, so she was

happy to work with them. But yeah, this is her job. And I have to say she started out as a as a hotel valet, so her whole story is really cool and worked her way up through the ranks. But she has some very cool cars in her personal life too, which is what we talked about. So what car in particular, So this is a nine eleven Carrera. It's from the g series, which is a series that ran from seventy three to eighty nine. It just means that's the series

of nine eleven. It's basically nineteen eighties guards read nine eleven. It looks very cool, it's beat up. She got it from a guy in the valley and did a bunch of her own things, both cosmetically and mechanically to make it a car that really fits her and that she loves, and she drives and she drives it. She doesn't baby it. I mean she she doesn't take it to Set. I did ask her about she drives it in the canyons and all over, but she did say, I don't take

it to Set. Well, I want to talk about this because she has this kind of thesis about why she doesn't drive it to Set, which I thought was really interesting. I mean, I'm a Californian, but you know, you know, I live here on the East Coast, not in the industry that so many people are in in l A. But it kind of says something about you if you drive to Set in a flashy car. Totally it's She's like,

whatever you drive, it's gonna be a flex. And she actually had a Porsche came in before this old beat up nine eleven, and it was a new car and she just felt like it was a bit flashy. And when she shows up to Set in a flashy new Porsche and you know, the producers in an audie, She's like, oh no, this is not a good look. So, you know, she currently I think she has a key or something that she drives to set something a bit knowledge. Okay, there you go, Yes, and the race car she keeps

for herself. So Chris, you know, and Hannah laying out this this story, what did you want to know or what jumped out for you? Oh? I mean, I just want to know, like what about a particular car enchant

people and what makes it feel like them? And with each of the cars that Hannah has profiled in this series, there's always something where it's like, you know, I like a particular era of car, like an interwar period, but I like them to be like a fourth car, and people have really difficult stories for why they like that, and I like, I just like that. Sarah want of a car that can she can like rip up the canyons in l A and just not and not be fancy.

And she said she likes being around other people with cars from that era because they're dealing with the same duff, the same problem and the same like things they love about their car, so it's fun to talk to people about it. She said. There's a lot of solidarity in driving old cars, because you do tend to find yourself gravitating to other people who have similar cars. Often because they have the same problems as you. I mean, let's be honest, like, if you're these are old cars, they're

gonna break down. That's just part of the thing. So if you have a network of friends who also have the same problems, it works out nicely. Is there another one? You know you talk about her, focus on her, but I know you feature another few women in the sections. Um there are so many. Um Any King, Any King is the one with the panda that is the cutest. Chris just mentioned, you know, particular shapes or particular eras

really appeal to people. And any is so funny. She is a co founder of King and Co. Which is like a marketing and branding agency. And she picked that car because she doesn't like curves on a car and this is totally and this and she's so aesthetically minded and this car is like it's all flat lines even inside. So it was just it just fits her so perfect. And again it's not none of these cars are particularly expensive, but they're interesting. And then we have Caroline Cassini. I

love it. It's beautiful. Now. Caroline is so interesting. She is the head of the bottoms market, so she's around a lot a lot of older cars. This one she uses for rallies, which is awesome, and it is difficult to drive. I would be a very hard press to drive that car. And she handles it very well and she races that car. Hannah, tell us what car that is. Caroline Cassini drives this mg TC and this is just

an old looking car. It's like exactly now forty eight is technically not pre war, but it looks like one of the old pre war cars. And Caroline, I should say, she's the head of the Bottoms Market. Now. The Bottoms, of course, is the auction house. The market is their online platform for selling old cars. So Caroline sees a lot of cars. Well, all I'm gonna say is one of the things I love. I love everything you do, Hannah.

But I also love that it's win in and you're talking about the cars, because I think we have just this stereotype of it's only men who collect cars and it's a certain kind of cars. And I love that these are women who know what they're doing, accomplished and they just I mean the details and the level of that detail about their vehicles. It's really cool to hear. I have to say this series is not supposed to be just women. It certainly wasn't formed as an idea

of we're only profiling women. It just so happens that so far the people who have interested me with their cars are our women. And it's not to say the next five people won't be men, but I just I totally agree. I love that these are their own, their names are on the titles, they're driving these things. It's not like they're borrowing the car whatever. They're just interesting picks and I love that. I love it too, And we love everything that you do. All right, Hannah, thank

you so much. We want to cover a little bit more of what else is in Pursuits this week, and Chris um, I feel like we go We're gonna go from how did they get that car? To how do we get our wine this year? Because the harvest it's questionable around the global though it's not all bad. Yeah, it's gonna be a little trickier to get our wine in the next couple of years because this UH summer

was really tough for wine growers around the world. Grape growers are critic Ellen McCoy talked to people in California and Oregon in Italy and France of course, to see how the harvest went this year, and it started very early. People started taking grapes very early because the weather was so dry. In most places, there was some early frost

and then the summer was really dry. There were wildfires, which can mean that the grapes get dehydrated and they get super concentrated and that can make the wine to alcoholic or it's just too too tart. So people have to really try and when the time when to pick grapes. And because the summer was tough, the yields are lower, so a lot less wine is probably be made. But

sometimes a dry summer actually creates grape wine. So some producers, especially like in Champagne for example, are saying, Okay, we're actually gonna have good tasting wine, even if we're gonna have less of it. Okay, so bring on the bubbles. Yeah, and I mean a nice kind of like silver lining to all the climate catastrophe that's actually leading to this. Let's end on a nice note about a spot in

Portugal that's getting a ton of attention right now. I want to go, well, you know what, you should get Brandon Pressor's job, because he gets to go to all the coolest places in the world, including Madeira. Yeah. So Brandon is one of our favorite writers and he travels all over the world. He's been bugging us about Madeira, which is an island off of the northwest portion of Africa, which is a territory of Portugal, and it's just it's

an incredible geographical terrain. So it's really great for mountain biking and for hiking, and it has kind of like four seasons worth of weather all at once. You have kind of like a desert environment and then you can have like a lush jungle and then a cold, snowy mountaintop all in one day. So it's really becoming a place for adventure tourists as well as a place for culinary tourists. And if you you know Madeira wine, it's sort of a sweet fortifide line that was made that's

been made there for hundreds of years. You know, people have been going there for that for a long time. But now there's some other reasons to go. So it's no longer haven for British pensioners. It's not a retirement village basically. Yeah, it had this sort of like marbe kind of reputation um and sleepy. But after the pandemic a lot of local kids that grew up there kind of went back because, you know, places shut down and they had nowhere to go. And a lot of these

young people are actually trying to remake the reputation. There are open restaurants and hotels and lineries. Was very cool. I don't know, Chris, you had me at ed Mountain biking. That one is definitely on my list. That's Chris Rouser. He's the editor of Bloomberg Pursuits and also big thank

you to Bloomberg Pursuits Auto columnist Hannah Elliott. Another awesome edition of the section, A totally awesome section, and there's also a good story about what beats uber eats that I highly recommend, an app that you might not be familiar with about food delivery. So much there. That wraps up our weekend edition to Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Think so much for joining us. I'm Carol Masser and

Tim Stanov. Could be sure to tune into Bloomberg Business Week Monday through Friday, starting at two pm Wall Street Time on Bloomberg Radio. You can also watch our daily broadcast on YouTube, just search Bloomberg Global News and check out our Bloomberg Business Week podcast. You can find that at Bloomberg dot com, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast.

Bloomberg Business Week is available on newstands now, at Bloomberg dot com and on the Bloomberg Terminal, and you can also see me on Bloomberg Quick Take available at Bloomberg dot com, slash Qt, and streaming platforms like Roku, Apple TV, Samsung TV and more. Have a great weekend everyone. This is Bloomberg