Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - November 25th, 2022

feast this Thanksgiving weekend. In this hour, concerns about charter airlines inside one of the world's most influential consulting firms, Meta's digital ad dilemma brought on by none other than Apple, and at once great pandemic play tries to regain its mojo. We're going to speak to the CEO of so No. That's the fun conversation. Then in our second hour, some lighter fair as you indulge, perhaps in another slice of

apple or pecan pie. How do you say it? Pecan pecan tomato tomato, Carol pecan pie, including speaking of food, Bam Emerald Legassi, renowned chef and restaurate tour also grub Hub founder Mike Evans, and then we've got the CEO b Et Scott Mills on Tyler Perry and Oprah all of that to come. We begin, though, with a word of caution as travelers take to the air this holiday season. In the current double issue of Bloomberg Business Week, Alan Levin sheds light on the dark corners of the private

aviation market, specifically charter flights. This story was also a Bloomberg Big Take. Alan is Aviation safety and f a reporter. He joined us along with the editor of Bloomberg Business Week, Joe Weber. Private aviation has become almost sort of the shadow world that is very attractive. You can get places far easier, and all you need is a little bit more money than flying via normal one. And Alan's reporting here reveals that it comes with a host of problems

and worries. Alan, Yeah, yeah, that's correct, um. And you know, in our world today, we can assume when you get in, if you call on Uber or you're getting a taxi, that it's sort of been vetted by the government. It's not perfect, but at least you know they're looking at it. And I think that's that assumption carries over into the charter world, not least, you know, at least in part it's due to the fact that there are lots of apps you can get that will get you a charter flight,

and some people just assume it's the same thing. But unless you know what you're doing, it's really hard to tell the legitimate operators from the ones who are not licensed, and you know, in some cases are really cutting corners on safety. I'm sorry, I'm just having like ft X flashbacks and your accountability. You assume that parent has a fancy app that you know, and that it has ads that it's going to be okay. So this is really interesting.

There's this also this this part in the piece, Allan, and you have just some you know, really heart wrenching examples. Marcy Wilhelm is somebody who spoke to you for the piece tell us about her experience flying privately. Yeah, let me just start by saying, I've been covering air crashes for a couple of decades now, and this is really one of the most heart wrenching ones. Marcy is was amazing,

had an amazing success story. She had co founded a healthcare company and they'd sold it for almost two hundred million dollars was back in she'd been hired to be the CEO of the successor company, and um, you know, she had was going away on a long weekend to Nantucket with some friends from her house in Florida. They stopped in uh, South Carolina to pick up some some

folks and the plane essentially did not have breaks. And it's a fairly big corporate jet um with high speeds compared to some other planes, and it just went screaming off the end of the runway down an embankment and broke into pieces. Killed both pilots and marsiennor your husband were both severely injured. And what investigators came to learn very quickly was that the plane never should have been

in service on many different levels. For one thing, Marcy booked the flight on a legitimate charter operator, but they're required to put each and every aircraft on their certification. This aircraft was not. Beyond that, it had dozens of

maintenance items that weren't complete. And the most stunning thing of all is a mechanic had noticed that the brakes weren't working, had put a bright orange placard kind of a sticky note if you will, on the brake panel right in front of the pilot's faces that said inoperable, and they still landed without the brakes and had this accident. How is this happening still? What are the blind spots here? You know? In the legitimate air charter world, I don't

want to leave listeners confused. In the legitimate world, there is a ton of f A oversight. It's not perfect. Occasionally we see flaws, but they're required to everything from pilot training to drug testing employees, on and on and on. But there's twenty thousand or so private jets that are privately owned in the US. And let's say our business and you bought this jet and suddenly the costs of

maintenance are adding up. You might say, well, jeez, why don't we just rent it out, you know, to somebody. And if you do that, you're not following all those safety measures that the legitimate guys do. And from the outside of the plane, it's almost impossible to tell the difference. What's your advice to folks out there who might be interested in chartering. Well, it turns out the f A a partly in a reaction to this a few years ago, be in publishing a list of all the aircraft are

legitimately licensed to carry people for hire. So you can look that up. If you google f A A Air charter safety, you'll find a link to it. There's a trade group that has been very involved in this as well, and there are also several private companies that do auditing of charter companies sort of save the customer the hassle of doing that and so so there are definitely ways to figure out who's legit and who's not. That was Bloomberg News Aviation Safety and A reporter Alan Levin, along

with the editor of the magazine, Joel Weber. Check out Allen's full story in the Business section of the magazine and this story it also involves members of the Hollywood Carol and political elites. Yeah, names you will definitely know. Coming up an inside look at one of the most powerful and secretive consulting firms on the planet. We're talking about McKenzie Company. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser

and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stenovik from Bloomberg Radio. Thank consulting, and yeah, you think of McKenzie and Company. It's a firm that's nearly a hundred years old, with more than forty thou employees, a firm with an alumni network of more than thirty four thousand working in just about every

business sector out there in a hundred twenty countries. Speaking of those alums, many household names, I mean Carol, We're talking people like Cheryl Sandberg, Chelsea Clinton, current CEO is all over, including a city group, Alphabet and Morgan Stanley. McKinsey itself though a household name, and it's the subject of a new book. It's called When McKenzie Comes to Town, The Hidden Influence of the World's most powerful consulting Firm.

The co authors are decorated New York Times investigative reporters Walt Bogdanich and Michael Forsythe our conversation began with Walt explaining how he managed to gather information about the ultra clandestine private firm. Well, when we started, we knew it would be a challenge because Mackenzie's entire business model is based on secrecy. You know, never disclose our client lists, never dispose what they pay us um and and they're

hugely powerful. I mean they have no accountability um. And what we wanted to do was look at the secretive company see what we could find and uh and find out whether you know they're they're doing good things are bad things. That's what journalists do. That's true, right, that's what they're supposed to do. UM. Well, you did get ahold of that McKenzie client list, which they do hold near and dear. So what did it as you went through?

What did it reveal to you? I think we were most interested in the conflicts of interest that emerged from that list. These are conflicts of interest that would never have been known. What kind of conflicts I'm talking about? Well, you know advising you know, the biggest pharmaceutical companies in the world at the same time that they're advising the Food and Drug Administration. That would seem to be a

magic problem. They were advising all the big cigarette companies at a time when they were advising the Office of Smoking in Health or Office of Smoking UM within the FDA. So those are glaring examples that we would not have learned about until if we had not obtained that list. Well, is there any type of work that McKenzie won't take these days? I think they'll say yes, Um, But I mean I won't know until I see the proof. I mean what they did and to their credit, and let's

see whether they carry through on it. After a lot of the expose as that were in the media, mostly in the Times, Um, you know, they decided to change. They decided to screen their clients more carefully and to monitor them to do a better risk assessment. You know how well that's working. How you know thoroughly they they are engaged in that new policy. I hate to use

the time will tell, but time will tell. One thing I did want to share is that mckensey um has actually put out a statement and it's on their website. It's in the media section, and it says, quote, a recently published book fundamentally fundamentally misrepresents our firm in our work. The book also seeks to associate our firm with events like the two financial crisis, a Major League Baseball cheating scandal, or safety incidents at a theme park that we simply

had nothing to do with. Perhaps this is why the book contains more than a dozen disclaimers across these and other issues, acknowledging that our work did not cause or was not associated with the trend or event for which the authors criticize us. And I would love for maybe both of you to weigh in on this, Michael, why don't you take it first? So, Um, you know, mckensey did put out that statement that they we published the book. Um. You know, we in the book look at so many

issues across the world. You know where mckensey has had a very big impact and in many cases very negative impact to South Africa, China, Saudi Arabia. UM. You know, looking at the opioid crisis, their work with tobacco companies. Um, there are so many instances where they did have a big impact. I don't think we ever would have written

this book if we didn't think McKinsey made a difference. Um. And of course there are many many projects at McKinsey, many things that we never hear about because you know, they go fine and they do plenty of good work as well. But like well it often likes to say, you know, as journalists, we don't write about the aircraft that safely take off and land. We write about the crashes. And the fact is that a McKinsey, there are so many airplane crashes so to speak. And that's what we

we've compiled in the book. It's it's more than just a one off incident. Hey Michael, what did you guys

find about the company's financials? And you know, I think a lot of people hear about, you know, at least in my experience, I've learned about and hear about the consultants who spend four or five days on the road working on secretive projects and traveling to different places for a year at a time, for example, and maybe doing that for a few years, and then they get into their thirties and they go off and they do something else and you know, potentially become the CEO of a

different company. What about the partners who stay there and how is their wealth tied to these projects? You know? So so they're very well paid, maybe not as well paid as a private equity you know partner or you know, a hedge fund manager or or the CEO of a bank on Wall Street, but you know, we're talking millions of dollars, you know, three or four million dollars for senior partners at times, so or even more so, they're

they're well compensated. Um, you know, they also can invest there's an internal hedge fund called the McKinsey Investment Office where they can make and put their money as well. UM, so you know these they're well paid. But as you said, a lot of people do leave McKinsey and go on to do other things. Uh. And you know many CEOs of Wall Street Bank to see of Morgan Stanley is a former McKenzie uh consultant. Hey, well, come on back in. Tell us about who you talked to, both of you.

Who you talked to you to do some of this book. A lot of I'm assuming right, former McKenzie insiders. I'm glad you asked that question, because every mackenzie consultant signs a nondisclosure agreement. That's a tall mountain for us to climb. We don't have subpoena power, but let me tell you this. We kept digging and digging, and by the end of it we interviewed nearly a hundred current and former Mackensey consultants,

which I think is astounding. And the reason we did that is because Mackenzie hires by and large responsible, you know, idealistic people, the best at the schools where they recruit, and when you hire those kinds of people, and they see a difference between what they were told when they were hired and the McKenzie's actions in the real world.

They get unhappy. And fortunately they were able to find our phone numbers and they called us, well, have you heard from more folks at McKenzie are formerly at McKenzie since the book came out? I would say, like in the last ten minutes, yes, Wow, from around the world. And and if they you know, at this point, you know, what are we going to do with that? I don't know,

but we're certainly collecting it. And if after discussing it with our editors and we decide there's more to be written, we will write our Thanks to New York Times investigative reporters Waltoke Danich and Michael forsythe their book called When McKenzie Comes to Town, The Hidden Influence of the World's most powerful consulting firm, and it's out now, still ahead

on Bloomberg Business Week. While the world's biggest social media company is seeing its digital ad dollars squeeze the hardest, there might be kind of the bigger reason that Meta, in particular ad business um it has a big hole in it and that pole is shaped like Apple. Our

tech team breaks down Meta's most pressing issues. Next, this is bloom Berg Broadcasting from the financial capital of the World Bloomberg eleven Rio in New York to Washington, d C. Bloomberg to Boston, Bloomberg one O six one to San Francisco, Bloomberg nine six to the country Sirius XM Channel one nine and around the globe the Bloomberg Business and Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovan on Bloomberg Radio.

Last year's changes to Apple's privacy policies have shaken the foundations of the targeted advertising industry. Meta Platforms has felt it. As revenue in the third quarter total Yeah, twenty seven point seven billion. That's a lot, but it was four and a half percent lower than the same quarter in one.

In the Technology section of the current double issue of Bloomberg Business Week, It's out now, online, on newsstands and on the terminal, is a story about how Meta is confronting a huge hit to its once mighty ad business. We get more from bloom Burg News Technology Reporter Alex Brinka.

We've heard a lot of anger at the general economic conditions from all of the Internet companies like Meta that depend on digital ads, blaming the economy for the really bad quarters they've had over the last six months or so. I'm writing that there might be kind of a bigger reason that Meta in particulars ad business. Um, it has a big hole in it, and that pole is shaped

like Apple. About a year ago, Apple changed its privacy policies for the iPhone that made ads on social media both harder to target specific people and harder to track the return on the spend on those ads. And a year in Meta has estimated that that's had a ten billion dollar hit on its pad business. And you know, myself and a lot of the analysts and insiders I spoke for this story would also argue that that's what's dragging Meta down to potentially it's there. It's third quite

straight quarter of revenue declines. It's more Apple than the economy. Um and I tried to break that down for folks this week. Well, there's a stark chart included in your piece that shows how other companies are faring or projected to fair between two TikTok, according to e Marketer, has a projected change of one fifty versus Meta down at

the bottom of which project a change of negative. Why is TikTok able to capitalize on something when you know they're using the same hardware in the same operating systems to deliver those ads. I think there's two key reasons.

So Meta, as you mentioned Facebook, Instagram, those are metas companies have historically been based on who you know your friend graph is how they derive kind of insights on you um and plus the information that they were able to glean from Apple to make sure that advertisers are

reaching the people they want to reach. Picktok. On the other hand, Um has built out an ai UM kind of focused recommendation engine that is derived on our users interests, so they know more about you than just who you know. They know who you're actually interested in. That is some of the information UM. It's not quite apples to apples that Meta has lost, So TikTok has been able to kind of really lean into this interest based recommendations. Now, the one caveat I would give is Meta is still

an advertising giant. They're still expected to bran about a hundred and sixteen billion dollars in rapids this year. TikTok is only about a tenth of that. So there is some kind of youth in growth there for TikTok. But that is kind of the big reason um that folks might be looking too platforms where they can target people a little bit more effectively than maybe what's been lost on Facebook and Instagram. I gotta say, Alex, one of the lines I love in your story, you say the

company has no experience managing decline. There's something to be said. I mean, this is a company that has been on fire, maybe a little bit of you know, trouble about that. I p o initially but figured it out right of the ship. But when things start to go wrong, like you might not have a playbook or the people in place to be like, well wait, how do we fix this right? And you'll remember they laid off workforce in

their biggest layoff ever. So this is a company now that's going to be expected to do more with less. So this Apple thing is a big problem, But there are a lot of other problems that meta. You have the economic conditions, you have the scrutiny on the political power that Facebook and Instagram have on the world. You have this big bet that Mark Zuckerberg is making trying to build a virtual reality world called the metaverse and

funneling ten billion dollars a year into that direction. So there's a lot going on there, and now it's going on with eleven thousand people, fewer than just two weeks ago, so it seems like they're really going to have to kind of buckle down. So this will definitely be one to watch as they kind of juggle both coming back from these changes that Apple forced upon their business, battling economic conditions, and trying to paint the future of computing

in the metaverse. Hey, Alex, kind of want to throw a little bit of a curveball at you because it's, you know, not necessarily what your most recent pieces about, but I know you've done so much reporting about this. I'm wondering what small busin this is think of this change, because they're the ones who have done a lot of advertising historically on meta platforms including Facebook and Instagram, and now ostensibly it's more difficult for them to target their

potential customers. Yep, throw those curveballs away. Um, I will say they have been okay um, they've spent more on like newspapers or buying ads on TV channel. So the big companies can do that because they have the budgets. Small businesses have kind of historically been stuck with two options basically meta or Google alphabets UM search ads when

it comes to reaching customers on the Internet. So they've been the folks who basically have had to kind of go roll with the punches here, and that's also why we think there's been such a big decline in overall ad spending. That's Bloomberg News Technology reporter Alex Brinka. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Coming up next, how a high end audio equipment maker is fighting for market share

amid stiff economic headwinds. The number one way that new customers coming to the system is existing customers telling their friends and family. So it's a it's a powerful model in that way, and we've got a good balance between existing and new. So no CEO Patrick Spence joins us on the other side. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes.

Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. We'll share. Some Sons traded higher right after reporting earnings this past week, stock, though still down around forty year to date. Among the quarterly headlines, though that stood out. Fourth quarter revenue beat estimates, and analysts found the print to be quote solid well. The reaction to guidance for three was mixed, with some impressed and others seeing it as a little light. We dug into all of that and more with the CEO of

son Nos, Patrick Spence. We've seen things stabilized. So we obviously took a hit back in June in terms of kind of the trajectory in our business, and so since then post pandemic, our continuation of a post pandemic reason, I think was more macro economic in terms of just generally like what consumers are doing and in the summer traveling and all of those things, and so you know, we did a bit of a reset at that point, and what we've seen in this quarter is we got

it right. Our business stabilized, and we shared a few data points on the call around registrations which are kind of like the underlying activations of new son No speakers that show in fact, it's kind of we're pretty optimistic in terms of where we are right now and what we're seeing and so, um, it's stable. Uh, And that's kind of the way we we've set our guidance as we go forward, and we're not expecting, you know, things to get much worse. We're not expecting it to get

much better. So we're just trying to be prudent in this kind of environment. A lot of competition in this space. You guys are still relatively small, as you point out when you join us. You know, every few months, Um, I'm wondering about who your customer is. And I think about this in the context of what we saw from Walmart Tennis. Well that's the thing. Yeah, we all that that's true, but but I'm wondering, you know, as you

try to grow. You know, we see a company like Walmart report results and they say that, you know, upper middle class customers are now trading down and shopping at Walmart rather than Target. Who's your customer and are you worried about people trading down to less expensive competitors. We're not. And I'm watching during a period like this, you want to watch market share very closely, and from what we're seeing, we're gaining share in this period Um, and I think

that speaks to the brand. But but we do talk about the more affluent homes that we're in, and and again you pointed it out. You know, we're so small in the grand scheme of things. We're in nine percent of the homes that we think we can be in ultimately, so we have a lot of room to go. Um, we don't you know, we don't get overly promotional. We kind of approached this in a very sustainable, kind of steady way, and so we feel like there's lots of

opportunity ahead. Um. They'll be obviously ups and downs because of the economy, but overall, we feel like our customer um is stable right now from what we can see, and so we'll be watching it closely. You know, if if things change, will definitely make adjustments in our business. But right now, UM, it appears our customers are pretty stable. So you're not talking recession or thinking recession internally in terms of meetings and saying, hey guys, we're gonna have

to be thinking about this now. We're watching it very carefully. UM. Obviously an economists, so I don't know whether recession or not, but it has slowed down, you know, it slowed down. We kind of took that that change in June and then, but since then it's been stable. So we haven't seen it get worse. I haven't seen it get better. Um. I do expect at some point it will get better, but I don't know if that's twelve months, eighteen months. You know, from from now as well, Patrick, who's your

best customer? Is it existing customers like a Tim and myself and others who already have Sennis equipment, or is it the new guy? So we added one point four million new ones in the last twelve months, were up to over fourteen million homes now and it's remarkably steady in the sense that forty of our sales every year come from our existing customers adding more, and then the rest of it comes from new customers and so, and the number one way that new customers coming to the

system is existing customers telling their friends and family. So it's a it's a pretty powerful model in that way, and we've got a good balance between existing and new. Guilty I said this all the time, and I'm guilty of, you know, buying gifts. So no gifts from my sister and my dad, who are big customers. Hey Patrick, UM, you're not an economy, you said, but you've got to make decisions based on what you think the economy is

going to look like. What's headcount looking like in three Have you had to pull back and lay anyone off? Are you planning to lay anyone off? So we focused on sustainable, profitable growth before it was fashionable. So you know, we've been profitable for four years. UM. You know, we didn't get to what I say crazy in terms of hiring. You know, through these periods, we've been investing in a very disciplined way. UM. So I'd say we're kind of

zigging while other zag we're still hiring people. We're looking at expanding into four new categories, and so we've been hiring people that help us actually do some things and bring some skills we don't have UM yet today. So I feel like this is one of those times where there's opportunity for us to emerge from this period even stronger. UM. And that's why we've focused on being profitable and being

able to be in control of our own destiny. What does worry our own ability to execute and deliver on the new problems? CEOs in presidents say this all the time. Well, it's much more about what you can control and what you can do, so making sure we bring out I know what you mean, but it really is about our ability to get the new products out, you know, be able to do the things that we need to do. Because we can't control the economy, we can't control the consumer.

All we can do is make sure that we're showing up in the best way possible and adjust accordingly. So, Patrick, innovation, how do you think about it in the space? Um, you know, we're playing in a few different areas of audio today, so about four different categories, and we are always balancing do we do something new to raise the bar in the existing category that we're already playing in,

or do we expand into a new one? Um? And so we go through really an assessment of kind of where our capabilities are and the opportunities we see in the market. And uh and then we kind of you know, follow our instinct quite frankly in terms of okay, we think this is somewhere that our customers will want to go with us. And so and our story has really

been you know, software eating audio. So where can we bring our system and our software and do something differentiated, uh, in a new space or in the space we're in,

like raise the bar if you will. So you will see us at times bring out things that are new, like we it with the Rome like a portable speaker, and into a new area or um like we've done with Submini recently, where okay, we're going to do something different in a space we're already in, and we try then if we're doing something in the space we're already in,

have a good, better, best approach to our portfolio. So we've got products for a variety of price points and customers and um, you know, different aesthetic appeals as well. Where's the room left to innovate? Uh? You know this is the thing that I think companies are always looking at and trying to understand, you know, where to go next. And in our world, you know, we really only play in about twenty billion of the audio market today and our revenue last year was one point seven so you

have a lot of room in the home. But then there's a whole bunch of categories beyond that. They take us to nine billion dollars. So we're investing in the categories that we're already in, but we're as well investing in four new ones UM that we think called a lot of potential UM as well. So we're excited that we're working on those and we're looking forward to bring

out those products over time too. But I mean, apart from getting smaller, batteries lasting longer, audio quality getting better, and you know, you already have speakers for what seemed like to me as a Sons customer kind of every occasion right now, I've heard that for ten years, UM.

And we keep coming out with the woods that reach into you know, new customers and new ideas, and that's the fun part of the job is to come out with these products that then our our existing customers rush out and by let's no of course not our customers will go out and by and that with the tracts new ones right as well. So we're always thinking about how are we servicing those existing customers but at the same time attracting a new set of customers into the products.

And so it's this you know, this balance kind of that we're doing from year to year in terms of what products we're going to bring out and how we attract more people into the system. But it is a long term view. Two right, like, I don't you know next year will be next year? For for me, the biggest thing is what happens over the next ten years.

And so we're investing in software and a and all the all the kind of stuff that everybody knows is happening in tech to make sure that we can bring out products and experiences that will continue to surprise people. How do you deal with Okay, wait, two questions metaverse? Do you think about that? Um? For you? I think, yeah, I think the whole idea of augmented reality, virtual reality, there's definitely something to that and audio will play a

big role. UM. So it's definitely something that we think about today. Don't know exactly what it looks like yet, but um, you know, we've we're pretty good about partnering with a variety different companies and trying to figure out our ways into spaces like that. So we're watching it very closely, all right. And I asked this of a lot of leaders of publicly health companies. Stock down for you two percent this year? How do you think about it?

Wor get into the conversations, Um, how does the board kind of approach like, how do you think about that? And there's a lot of names that are beaten down, menage down. So I'm just but I'm curious. It's got to be something you keep in mind. Oh, absolutely, it has to be. And I think those that claim that they don't, I don't think are necessarily being genuine because it is a factor. And all of our people, you know, all of our people UM get compensation through restricted stock units,

so that matters. UM. I feel responsibility to our people and to our investors, and so I think it's important too in these times, like really make sure you're telling your story clearly. So when we did our earnings call last night, we disclose some data points that we hadn't before around registrations inventry UM and as well future products, even about the number of categories we're going into to

help people better understand where we're going. So we can always do a better job I think of telling our story. And then there then there are some things that are out of our control in terms of the markets and those kind of things. But fundamentally, you know, I do think, UM, you have to be mindful of it, and then you also have to understand you can't control it, but you

can control your communications. And then the number one thing you can control is your own execution and the ability to actually deliver you know, on those things over time and build you know, build a real business. Right thirty seconds, Patrick, you're based in Santa Barbara, a very desirable place to live. Not a lot of companies based there. Do you have to overpay to attract talent or do you have to do you underpay because it is such a desirable place

to be. So we uh through the pandemic, We've been hiring all over the United States. We pay the same you know, salary whether you happen to live in city A or city B. Um, as we go through it across the country, because I figured, as as we try to attract you know, the group of like amazing talent, a group of diverse talent that we can why you know, if you're doing the same job as somebody in city A versus City B, why would you be paid I

need differently, right, I think at less to live in CITYB. Well, but but that doesn't mean you should get paid less for your impact at a company. So you know, like I think it should be, I'm just going double advocate. Yeah, yeah, no, I understand, But but I think a personal question, but I do think, you know, people should be paid based

on the impact they're having in their organization. That was the CEO of so Nos, Patrick Spence, and that reps up the first hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Carol Masser and I'm Tim Snaneek. Ahead in our next hour, if you're still hungry after your Thanksgiving feast, world renowned celebrity chef Emerald Legazi stops by with some culinary tips and a pulse check on the restaurant business. Can I just tell you

all of Thanksgiving food the day after? I kind of love it. That is the best part, Carol, all those leftoverers man turkey sandwiches. I have it for breakfast hosted pie. All right. We're also going to check in with Grubhub founder Mike Evans. He shares his story, Yeah, he shares his story turning a pizza craving into a multi billion dollar business. Also, the president CEO b Et Scott Mills on his game changing deal with Tyler Perry that needed

a blessing from Oprah. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week. Inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and tech news as it happened, Sloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes, Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg

Radio Plenty. Hen in our second hour of this holiday weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week, including some later fair to just kind of back with relax this holiday weekend, including a conversation with celebrity chef Emerald Legassi on his latest project and the changing landscape of the hospitality sector. We'll also speak with grubhub founder Mike Evans on his groundbreaking journey into the food delivery space, and Laural Paris USA president Ali Goldstein on the company's outlook and its

signature philanthropic program, Women of Worth. I was impressed by the work that they are doing. First up this hour more from the recent Bloomberg Live Growth Summit two weeks ago. You might recall we featured a conversation with Tony Vince Aquera, chairman and CEO at Sony Pictures Entertainment. From the event. Will also there with Scott Mills President CEO b et which,

among other things, provides black content from black creators. We talked about a lot, including a years long pursuit of a game changing deal with one of America's most popular showman. The starting point really when we started recrafting BT for the future was entering to a strategic partnership with Tyler Perry. And and that is really the first of a number of key steps that we made to transform the ekey and it's worked really well. He's been an amazing partner.

It was extraordinary challenging to pull off. Well, wait, let's talk about that. And this is I think a great lesson for everybody. This is something you thought about a long time ago, yes, and suggested it to the folks in Viacom. Yes, how many years ago? Yeah, two thousand and six, two thousand and seven was when we when when when we started we that I started evangelizing about the merits of b ET doing a partnership with Tyler Perry.

And the analog that I use is that if you accept that be ET is to the black community, what say Disney is to children that when Pixar came along, right, we all know, it was hugely disruptive to Disney, and it really took them off of their game. With respect to to creating content for kids. Tyler Perry was a similar phenomena. The ET was striving. He came, he entered the television landscape, and his content was transformative, much like Pixar as animated movies were transformative. And b ET did

exactly what Disney did. We tried to compete with him and what have you, and and realized that Tyler was singular in creating a particular type of content that resonated with audiences. And my view was we shouldn't try to out Tyler Tyler. We should partner with Tyler, bring him into the b ET ecosystem. Tyler, right, We should be with Tyler. We should allow him to thrive in third flourish in our ecosystem, and then the rest of the ET can do the things that it's really great at,

much like Mr. Iger did with with with Pixar. Right. And eventually they stopped competing. They brought them into the ecosystem. They bought them. We did not buy Tyler. He's not for sale. To be clear, um right that Tyler? I said that, Um the U. But so you can partner with Tyler, and we brought him into the ecosystem, and in bringing him in, he has flourished in a way that exceeded all of the success that he had prior. And also be Et has flourished. And so it is

very much like a Disney Pixar dynamic. But in two thousand and eight we tried to sell it in um Ultimately we couldn't get buy off at the Viacom corporate level because Tyler it was a big undertaking. And then we came back to it in two thousand seventeen. Uh, and we're able to get it done. Time for to get it done in a little bit more expensive. You know. The trick is if you don't move early and um, you know, people have extraordinary that's right, people have extraordinary success.

You'll have to pay for that. Well, there's one fun nugget to this story. Because Tyler Perry actually had to break up with Oprah to do this. That's that's exactly right. That's exactly right. And I didn't have a relationship with Tyler. So when we when when in two thousand and sixteen, two thousand and seventeen, we've got a green light to go and pursue this. The issue was Tyler was in

a deal with Oprah and Discovery Networks. So the issue was, Okay, it's challenging enough because when you know that, we understood he was going to come to the end of his deal, and so the view was, can you get him to not renew and come with you? And UM, So you're always comfortable competing with other companies, but you're really not comfortable competing with Oprah Winford, UM and there, and they

were right and they were great friends and UM. But long story short, Tyler had a vision for what he could do in partnership with b ET and then via Common now Paramount, and he was able to articulate that vision and why he thought it was a unique opportunity to Oprah and she she generously understood and and said, we can still be friends even if you leave me. So it worked out. Were a little nervous, I mean, that's risk. It was tremendous risk. It was tremendous risk.

And so what we had was extraordinary high conviction. And that conviction was anchored in all of the analysis and research that we've done with respect to really understanding how his content performed relative to under other content, relative to other price points. And it gave us extraordinary conviction that we had to use a hundred and fifty percent of that conviction that actually get the deal done. And it was understood that if it didn't work, that the consequent

to this would be profound UM. But because we were so anchored in that conviction, right, I think it's fair like without question, they're they're been keep No, it's true. There's been key points where you've had to put your career on the line for these high conviction plays, high risk, high conviction plays. And I think to the credit of Bob Bakis, the CEO of Paramount, when we walked him through the logic of it, he said he saw the logic.

He said he appreciated that it was it was a risky undertaking, but that the logic made sense and he supported the initiative. And actually the partnership has over delivered UM. And it then set us up for the next big idea that we wanted to take. And we said, okay, we've done that one. That one worked, here's the next big idea. That was Scott Mills. He's president and CEO of Black Entertainment Television, better known to many as b ET. Check out his full conversation with Carol. It was at

the Bloomberg Growth Summit. You can find it at Bloomberg Live dot com, including his thoughts on the explosion of streaming and where b Et fits in. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Coming up, cosmetics giant. Loreal's annual philanthropy competition is back and better than ever. It's really about celebrating women who were leading grassroots organizations and giving back to their communities against probably some of the most important

causes out there. Loreal Paris USA President Ali Goldstein talks Women of Worth. This is Bloomberg, This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovik from Bloomberg Radio. I gotta say I love this time for many reasons, including the pie. There is the pie. It's also when the city starts to really feel like the holidays are coming. It's always fun. It's also when you get a super uber feel good moment. Courtesy of

the team over at Lorial Paris USA. They put on an event, an initiative. It's called Women of Worth. It's an annual honoring of women who are committed to improving the lives and worlds of vulnerable communities. Their philanthropy covers everything from civil rights advocacy and financial hardships for families and medical treatment to literacy and our therapy programs for kids and more. These women are recognized and then given a major assist in their mission thanks to Loreal for

more back with us. As Ali Goldstein Loreal Paris USA President, we're in our seventeenth year of doing this. We will honor We honor ten women every single year, so we have a a now a an alumni web network of a hundred and sixty women. This year we will add ten more women. And it's really about celebrating women who were leading grassroots organizations and giving back to their communities against probably some of the most important causes out there UM and and our job as a brand is really

to support them financially. We do give them dollars each, but it's really about giving them access awareness to everything that Loreal Paris can offer um and giving visibility to the causes that they represent and dig deeper because I mean, I've been at the event. It's really heartwarming because there's some really tough issues that are out there and some of them are people who see it firsthand or some people who just realize there's a vulnerable community and there's

a way to do it better. So dig a little bit deeper to what it is because it's just unbelievable. So we we look for the causes often that people don't want to talk about, and and we look for a variety of causes. And this year actually when we surfaced and we were screening all of the applications, we had over one thousand applications for this, of which we select ten and people nominate, people nominate other summer self nominations,

summer friends and colleagues that nominate the women UM. And this year we basically where we net it out is there were three big themes that emerged. One mental health, no surprise to issues related to SOI socioeconomic issues, and three a host of causes at our Supporting Children UM. And that was really this year the big themes that are merged, which I think we are so excited and

proud to be helping these organizations. I want to talk about one of the winners and their accomplishments, specifically Mindy Atwood. She's got two sons who dealt with life changing illnesses at a young age, and the inspired her to launch an organization that helps families who are dealing with financial hardships for children who are in treatment and recovery as well. What what really stuck out about her story, so I think so so. Mindy's organization is called Patches of Light.

And what's so great about her organization, which is similar for many others, is that it's really started through a personal challenge. You know, she faced issues where her own children were suffering as as you said, from health issues. And oftentimes what we find out is the parents are so overwhelmed by the health issues and taking care of their children that they're not able to pay their rent,

pay their utility bills. And the organization really supports people who are in similar situations to what she was in, and that was sort of the impetus for her creating this organization to basically help people who need to be able to focus on their children and can't worry about continuing their jobs and paying their bills, and so it's truly grassroots. And she provides care packages, financial support, baby sitting for the siblings, whatever is needed to these organizations.

And that's one really great example as you look back and you look at what some of them have accomplished. UM, how do you think about the impact that these women have had overall on so many important parts of our society and forgotten parts often. I mean, I think these women have really just brought awareness and and support for organizations that are so difficult to deal with. And many of the women in our alumni network, I mean and now hundred and sixty women have really gone on and

accomplished the amazing things. We have one Nobel Prize winner, we have a few have who have received Presidential Medals of honor. I mean, we actually have a pretty good track record. We've we've identified some fantastic women, and we've also just launched, um it seems it's finally, but we've just launched a LinkedIn and alumni network because what we're also recognizing is the women themselves can help each other.

So so many of the causes are become similar over time, and so the older women of worth the more seasons can help the new ones, and Lorill Paris can kind of create this network that that brings them all together. Can you talk a little bit about how in the earlier years, how the themes change to what the focus is in recent years, or but the themes are in recent years, you know, the themes themselves don't change that much, UM, although I think we're more comfortable talking about the dirtier

topic what you're saying, um, you know. And and things in terms of abuse have really become front and center. Mental health has become front and center, um, you know. And then there are things that are timely. This year, one of the honorees UM is a nurse UM Shannon and Peak from Operation Happiness. So and you can imagine with COVID and the pres sure of being in hospitals, the mental health crisis that our nurses are facing. And

so this organization provides support for nurses. UM that's extremely timely right now. Probably has existed for a long time, but with COVID it's rampant. UM And so we we see trends sort of come up and down depending upon

what's happening in the world. All Right, we have to ask you you know this because we're at a funny time and you talk about issues, there's so many different when we last, well, yes, but there's still lots of questions about kind of the global economic environment and we feel like some things we could count on, you know, whether it was supply chains and so on and so forth, Like there's still in question. We're talking about recession. How do you guys see your global company, you deal with

supply chains, How do you see it right now? I think I think we're learning to live in a very volatile world and that's the new normal that we face. You know. UM, I think generally people like beauty. We've seen over the last few months, it's been pretty resilient

in UM. I can't predict what's going to happen in the next six months, but but I can tell you that, you know, there's an emotional piece of beauty and you know, doing your hair, putting on some making the pandemic, yeah, we saw you know, we see ups and downs, but generally, UM, we see, you know, a pretty decent resilience in the market. Have you seen any shift yet in the way that

customers are spending? I mean, you have so many different brands at and I'm wondering if you're seeing some of the brands that aren't expensive see higher sales and essentially, you know, for lack of a better term, some customers trading down to buy those I think we see very different There's there's dynamics all over the place. So there are some group of individuals who might decide to switch from a like a department store product to a mass

market product. In some cases, someone might take a break and spread their hair coloring and stretch it out a bit. Some people might decide, you know what, instead of going on vacation, I'm going to invest in a great skin cream. So there's lots of different dynamics that are happening, and and all of it takes effect, you know. And so we we have a very diverse portfolio of products of brands at all different price points. And that's our goal is to reach everyone and provide an option no matter

who you are and what you can afford. That's Alie Goldstein. She's the president of Loreal Paris USA. Check out their website for more on the latest installment of their Women of Worth program. Still to come on Bloomberg Business Week. We've got a pair of food luminaries, you might say, grub Hub founder Mike Evans and then Bam celebrity chef and Malagassia Bam. That's why he's so cool. Let's stick around.

This is Bloomberg Broadcasting from the financial capital of the world Bloomberg eleven Rio in New York to Washington, d C. Bloomberg to Boston, Bloomberg one O six one to San Francisco, Bloomberg nine six to the country Sirius XM Channel one nine and around the globe the Bloomberg Business and Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovan on Bloomberg Radio. We've got two great guests from the world of food

coming your way in our last half hour. Here. We've got Emerald Legassi in just a bit, and we're going to begin though with someone who really really brought disruptions to the food space. It's the story of how a pizza craving turned into a hobby and then became a business and then ultimately grew into a multi billion dollar behemoth that changed the way we eat Grubhubs. Mike Evans is out with a memoir called Hangry, a startup journey.

Bloomberg News senior markets reporter Katie Gratfield and I asked him about the company's journey to the public markets. It was not a straight line from A to B. And that's the nature of startups, you know, every time that

you you innovate something and you create something new. So that start, it was just finding all the restaurants that delivered to you, and then it became online ordering, and every time we did that, there was all sorts of other companies that copied us, and so we the only true competitive differentiator is to keep innovating to sort of stay ahead of that curve. And so ultimately we've really doubled down on customer service and by the time of the I p O we had eighty thou restaurants on

the platform and uh and it was it was homming along. Mike, you're no longer involved in grubhub. You started another business since then. But I want to talk about the food delivery food delivery as a business because with the likes of Uber Eat, with the lights likes of you know, so many platforms that restaurants can choose from right now, and also the way how much it cost restaurants to actually make food. I'm wondering about the business if there is a chance for this type of thing to become

profitable on a wide scale. Yeah, I think so. Grubhub was profitable before every finance thing we took. We started it without investment money and bootstrapped. It was profitable at the I p O and for eight quarters before and after the I p O. And that was at scale. And so I absolutely think that it's possible to run these companies at ad problem why isn't that happening now?

Really two reasons. One is there has been pressure from public markets for companies to show growth as opposed to profitability. And so when everybody's banging that banging that drum as loudly as possible, eventually companies listen and uh. And so there's there's certainly no motivation to drive for profitability within within pull up market markets. For startups, they don't get a market cap as a result of being profitable. But maybe more importantly, as competition has entered the space, the

differentiation between the different entities has really decreased. And so because of that, um the companies have to spend a lot more on marketing and re marketing back to customers that they already had, instead of enjoying loyalty and frequency um like you do when you really have a differentiated product. I want to go back to the early days of grub hub and the idea of toiling away for eighty

hour weeks and the startup story there. I'm wondering when you look at the landscape this year, like what you're optimistic about, what you're excited about in terms of startups. Yeah, you know, there's this narrative that people have this go to go and get a business plan and they um, then they get this friends and family money, and then venture capitalists throw millions of dollars at them, and then

suddenly their idea is a real company. And that is the extraordinarily like small percentage of businesses that are started in the United States. Um grub hub was started, we bootstrapped. We we had no investment for the first four years, and we got all the way up to just just about half a million dollars in revenue before we took investment. And so, you know, I always suggest to other entrepreneurs just start like, you don't need a ton of investment.

You can you can learn almost every skill that you need to know to do is start up and do it yourself, which does take a lot of work. It does take It is a bit of a Grindum but it's a lot more Uh, it's a lot more controllable output than sort of hoping that a VC will invest in you. And so I think there's still plenty of um startup activity, entrepreneurial activity happening in the very early seed stages right now that doesn't necessarily have to depend

on venture capital investment. Mike, you touch on something I actually think about a lot, because obviously on Bloomberg Radio we talked to a lot of this successful founders, the successful entrepreneur as. We don't talk to a lot of people, you know, who have tried to start something new, to create a business and it ultimately didn't work out. And I'm curious. I mean, in those four years, for example, where you didn't have necessarily investor funding, I mean, did

you know that grub hub would be a success? Talk us through some of the self reflection that you went on. Yeah, I was pretty clear with my goals. Early on, I wanted to make it a funny to pay off my school debt, and then later on I wanted to create a business that really leveled the playing field for independent restaurants and its like. As I was going through that, I tried things that didn't work right. I tried things that did work, and I tried things that it didn't.

And because of that, because it's the nature of innovation is experimental, you have to be willing to quit the things that aren't working. You have to put the work in on the things that might work and that are working. But it's really important to not get a blind spot and just get stuck in beating your head against something where it's it's just not working out. And and that like, that was the nature of the thing that I really

learned in those first few years. Um and in venture capital can hide that if you have enough cash to not make tough choices, then you don't you don't necessarily have as much motivation to stop the things that aren't working. That was grubbub founder Mike Evans with me and Katie Greifeld his memoir Angry, a Startup Journey is out now. All right, you're listening to Bloomberg Business Week, still ahead. All of a sudden, the camera people, you know, they

need all this food. All of a sudden, I'm like, I'm losing them. And so Bam came about waking everybody up to like, yes, can I get your attention everybody, and Real Legassi is up next. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. I getta say, we've been blessed with having the best of the best when it comes to the world's great chefs visiting and

talking with us in our teams at Bloomberg. That includes someone who is one of the original iconic chefs. Emerald Legassi is a world renowned chef and restaurateur. He's the host of Emerald Cooks and Emerald Tailgates. It's on Roku. He stopped by our studio here at Bloomberg Headquarters to talk about the state of the restaurant at Business the Big Easy in his four decade long career in the kitchen, it's been a few years and a lot of content

and it continues. You know. It's just like it doesn't stop, because the restaurant business doesn't stop. If once you stop, then the customer stops, the excitement stops. You know, the creativity has to keep going on and you have to keep driving every single day. So that's that's the message of the staff every day. Let's get up today and let's try to do a little bit better than we did yesterday. And let's make it exciting so that the

guests are excited to come back. Well, it's interesting. I mean, I mean, I want to get back to the program in the show and in just a minute. But before we do that, I want to get an update from you about what's been happening over the last couple of years. Um. Because when we do sep then and speaking of sometimes things do stop. And we saw the world shut down during the pandemic. And know that the fact the restaurant industry so much, you had to close some restaurants during

the pandemic. Talk about what the last two and a half years were like for you. I you know, I was closed for a little over two years. Um uh do you ever think about that? It's amazing. But you know, there's good, there's good and bad. Right, So a good thing is is that it gave me a chance to really be at home, which I never really had a lot of time to be at home with the family. It gave me a chance to really sort of dig in my inner soul to say, okay, where are we here?

And you know, where do we want to go and how are we going to get there? Because some things are great and some things on so great, and so what happens to close seven restaurants? Um, we have five open now, not counting the amazing UH B Strow at sea at Carnival Cruise Line. Soon to be two. We're going to do our second uh EMERALDT. B. Strow on a new ship called Celebration. First restaurant is on Mardi Gras.

Go figure. But getting back to the restaurant business, it was it was a difficult time because here's no revenue coming in. But I kept my staff for the five restaurants. So, um, you know that's expensive, very expensive, and obviously a very big commitment to the communities that were in too. In Las Vegas. How many people is that? Well, I went from a little less than eight staff members right now we have just a little under eight hundred. So but

I don't know where they went. That's that's the other thing. You talked to the restaurant tours and chefs. It's like you know, the label pool out there, talked to Danielle, talked to Ericapare, etcetera. Where do they go? It's like, you know, I talked to my doctor friend. He's having trouble getting a nurse. You know, it's just it's crazy.

We've talked about it with economist market watchers. It's just like, how is it persistently that so many people have just kind of left the workforce and state of it and some of it I get of retirees and sort of something, but that's not necessarily the case. But you know what his His's the thing is that, um, the majority of those people went retirees or even close to being retirees.

They were you know, they were young people twenties, thirties, forties, right that you know, still had a lot in them and a lot more to go. But I just don't it's it's so difficult these days, Uh, staffing supplies, purveyors. I mean, it's still you still today. I mean we're we are working on a renovation project right now, and um, you don't have to order stoves like a year in advance, you know, ten months in advance. Because it used to be like you could pick up the phone, O case,

six months, six weeks, you know, boom. Now now it's it's not like that at all. It's it's all the way around. So it's still those persistent problems. It's it's it's difficult operating out there. But you know what what you have to do is you gotta pull back the reins and you gotta go back and say okay, and then you got to go to the team and say, right, how are we going to do this better? And how are we you know, we've already passed survival, right, so

we're already passed that stage. Gate one is gone, so you know, how how we how are we going to get there? I have to say, I'm in the k on Twitter is saying please tell him my wife and I missed his restaurant in the South Beach. Yes, yes, we had a great restaurant, a couple of great restaurants in Orlando as well. But you know that you gotta do what you gotta do, said Bam. I'm just gonna tell you. I'll make it. I'll make the story really quick ready, Because there's there's a lot that we do.

Back in the old days when I was doing Essence of Member, we're doing eight shows a day, and so you guys know television, it's unheard of to do eight shows a day. Okay, unheard of. Right. So being a food show, we do three four shows, try and get for lunch, we had we had what we called a shift table, so all the food that we cooked, we'd put on that table because the staff wanted to eat it. That's that's that's why I would be yeah, that's all right.

So we would come back after after the break, and all of a sudden, it was a very tiny crew, you know, four camera, one stage person, people in the control room, etcetera. And all of a sudden the camera people out, you know, they need all this food. All of a sudden, I'm like, I'm losing them. And so Bam came about waking everybody up to like, yes, can I get your attention everybody, because we've gotta we got three more shows to do. Work. It did, all right.

We want to talk about crew ships. I want to go back there because you guys you got deals with Carnival and your food, your restaurants. Right, it's my It's really my food, and it's a it's a remarkable experience working with the staff. You know, first of all, it's worldwide people, so they're from all over the world. The kitchen staff predominantly is from India. Um, it's been an

absolute pleasure working with them. Of course I'm a huge fan of the president, Christina, and of course Arnold, who's really a driving force. But it's been a remarkable, remarkable experience working with them because it's not just about like, Okay, here, here's a dish that you can do. It's about training, training manuals, working with the kitchen team, the food and beverage team, and then doing a really really awesome job executing because what they do really well is execute well.

How do you So, how do you do that when it comes to consistency in a floating city as you've described it before, Carol, but also you know in Las Vegas and Florida, how do you do it? Yeah? So it's it's not easy, but you know what, Um, you know, I've been, I've been to the route where I've had many, many restaurants, and obviously since the pandemic and by choice, I've really tailored that down to now where it's manageable.

Great people, great team. Can't win a Super Bowl without a great team, right, It's not just a quarterback, So you can't. You can't. You know, you've gotta have a great team. And great leadership. Um so, um, you know, I just tried to remind the staff every day that we're going to get up and we're gonna do a little bit better than we did yesterday. And um, it's

it's a constant it's a constant movement. It's every day we're just pushing and pushing and pushing, whether it's service or whether it's the food, the seasonal menu, etcetera, etcetera. It's just it's it's a constant, constant push. But once you're in it, and that's I've been in it since I was ten years old, so you it's very hard. Once it gets in your blood, it's very hard to you know, to you know, I thought at times that I wanted to do something else. Wow, I'm gonna become

a wine guy, you know, gonna you know whatever. It's No, it's not gonna happen. No, No, it gets into it gets in your blood. And uh, you know, I have I have four kids. Um My son is the only one interested in the business. And uh, the girls are just kind of ons a c p A you know once Uh also valuable when you're running a business. Yeah, you know, one does a cup massage the other one is a senior in high school soon to go to college.

So they're interested, but they're not interested. And you know, many times the girls have told me, you know, dad, why do I want to do this? It's that's that's too much work. Okay. What do you cook at home when you're with your whole family? It depends. I'm a very seasonal kind of weather kind of guy. I love seafood, I love fish, so that's usually what kind of comes to the top. But it could be a great roast chicken, it could be bowl as, it could be uh, you know,

it could be after after spending. But after spending they have more out there, by the way, spending twelve hours, you know, shooting cooking. Do you actually want to come home and cook? What do you order out? Very very rarely, I don't need I don't really eat fast food, and I don't really very very occasionally do we order out?

Mostly Vietnamese food in New Orleans has such an incredible Vietnamese population and such incredible Vietnamese food, So that's really I guess that would be called ordering out, I guess right. And having far and bombies and and rolls, you know, spring rolls, delivered to your house. Maybe that that's ordering love New Orleans. I do. Yeah, Well, I moved there in a D two to take over Commander's Palace. I fell in love with the city, the architecture, the music.

Of course I have a little slight background in music, so that that appeal. Yeah. Later, um, and then all of a sudden, I just fell in love. The food is just it's one of America's greatest food cities. In my opinion, I think people in New Orleans, even after the pandemic, eat dollar for dollar the better than most places in the world, and certainly in this country. Uh. It has you know, hundreds of years of traditions, so you know, it's not just about Creole and Cajun and

so there's a lot of history. There's a lot of tradition there and now you know, you add all of the ingredients and techniques from other ultures that are influencing you know, the city beside you know, the Cajun and Creole aspect of it, and it's really really just a remarkable food shuitio our thanks to celebrity chef Emerald Lagassi for joining us in studio. He's host of Emerald Cooks

and Emerald Tailgates on Roku. Alright, that wraps up the Thanksgiving special weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Thank you so much for joining us in our thanks as always to Bloomberg's Katie Greifeld for helping us out as well. I'm Carol Masser and I'm Tim Stanovik. Be sure to tune into Bloomberg Business Week Monday through Friday. It starts at two pm Wall Street Time on Bloomberg Radio.

You can also watch our daily broadcast on YouTube. Just search Bloomberg Global News and check out our Bloomberg Business Week podcast. You can find that at Bloomberg dot com, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. Bloomberg Business Week is available on newsstands now, at Bloomberg dot com and always on the Bloomberg Terminal. You can also see us on Bloomberg Quick Take, available at Bloomberg dot com, slash qt, and streaming platforms like Roku, Apple TV, Samsung TV, and more.

Have a great weekend, everyone. Have another piece of hie in Stacy. This is