This is Bloomberg Business Week inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio.
Hi, everyone, Welcome to this holiday weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week. It was supposed to be a quiet, abbreviated week for markets. What we got was anything but.
The investor is actually shrugged as Nvidia reported quarterly revenue that tripled from a year earlier. Then the Justice Department brought the hammer down on crypto Exchange Finance and its founder. And then, of course, Carol, there was Open Ai.
As we said, anything but quiet. Well, less than five days after Sam Altman's abrupt ouster from the artificial intelligence startup, Altman was back at OpenAI, one of the world's most valuable startups, putting an end, at least for now, to the back and forth drama that transfixed Silicon Valley and the global AI industry.
We'll be talking tech throughout our first hour of the program, and we begin with someone who knows quite a bit about this space and the broader implications of AI in our society. Andrew McAfee is principal research scientist at MIT, and he joins us with his take on the open AI saga.
I think this is just a crystal clear case study of the importance of good old fashion, boring corporate governance and running a good board. This feels like a huge enforced error on the part of the Open AI board, and I still don't quite understand it.
Yeah, I think you're not the only one who doesn't quite understand it. Doesn't sound like even Satinadella at Microsoft Carol knows why he was fired.
Yeah.
I mean that's what's interesting. I mean, is it important in your view, Andrew, that we know every detail in terms of how this ends, or what is ultimately the important thing that we get out of this, or how it ends in your view.
I don't think we're ever going to know all the details, but we do know that if you have an extraordinarily popular, very effective CEO at growing a tech company, the board might not want to fire that person with almost with no notice, really without apparently engaging on a lot of back and forth with him, not for any fraud or misconduct or malfeasance, but because of some other kind of
vague problem. If the board is going to take that fairly rash step, they probably want to alert their major investors, their biggest business partners, their employee base, and give them time to get ready. For all that, they didn't appear to do any of that, And when they were frantically negotiating over the weekend to try to bring him back, that all fell apart, And it fell apart to the extent that the huge majority of the employees of the
company have signaled that they will walk away. Whatever you think the board's duty is, I can't see how it is includes destroying that much value, hollowing out the employee base of the company. And if the mission of the Open AI Foundation is to advance safe agi for humanity, I do not see how these actions support that mission at all.
Hey, Business School, this is a case study of how not to do things. Basically.
There are plenty of examples of that. By the way, there is plenty.
They're all that right. Often usually.
You know, I'm wondering. You know, Tim was really smart in terms of our discussions that we've been having around this about what seems to be maybe at odds, and that is this debate about a need for balance of pushing generative AI, this technology, expanding, exploring it to reach its potential, but with also having an ethical line because
of the potential of it to do wrong. Although I would go back to you know, the Cold War and missiles and the battle to have the greatest and best in terms of military and how that could bring the end to civilization. So trying to kind of figure out what is at risk if we get this wrong?
Help me hear, yeah, whatever is at risk? If your organization organization's mission is safe AI, and you believe apparently that a for profit company is not the right way to accomplish that mission, then doing things that let your CEO and again almost all of the employees wind up at an AI building for profit company that is not accomplishing the goals of your mission. I personally am not
worried about the existential the alignment risk of AI. All very powerful tools bring risks and harms with them, and they demand vigilance, and we got to be careful about it. I don't think AI is any big exception to that trend or requires us to do radically different things. We just have to be vigilant. Stop the bad uses.
That is really really surprising for me to hear from you, Andrew, because I hear from you know, the worst case scenario when it comes to this stuff is, okay, what if AI developed some sort of super bug or biological weapon, or in fact, you know in the Elon Musk school, become sentient and more powerful than human beings. Why does that not worry you?
I mean, I read a lot of science fiction as a kid, too. I think terminator sci fi scenarios are not great guides to policy, are not great guides to I'm using this very powerful, very beneficial toolkit. I do think that there is a risk that AI, for example, could be used to as part of an effort to engineer bad bugs or bioweapons. Great, why are we focusing on a AI and not gene editing and not gene
sequencing technologies? And why are we letting anybody apply to molecular biology and genetics doctoral programs and distributing that knowledge very freely. There are, again, there are risks in the modern world, let's not be naive about that. But singling out AI as the lynchpin that's going to make everything bad happen, I just think that's wrong. I think that's a misallocation of our effort. Okay, demonizing technologies that will be super beneficial to us, I think as allows the idea.
Well, let's move away from the superbug concern and more to the concern that it will become a sentient being that is more powerful and smarter than us. Why does that not concern you?
You know, we have so many more important things to worry about. We have to accomplish an energy transition in the twenty first century. We have too high a disease burden. There are too many people in dire poverty around the world. I believe that AI might be the most powerful tool that we've ever come up with to help us solve
these global planetary challenges facing humanity. And we're sitting around worried about the terminator when there's not a shred of evidence that AI has become sentient or taken control of anything that we don't want it to. Bad sci fi mixed bad policy.
And to full transparency. You're working with Google on research related to the societal impacts of generative AI. I am curious that what is the balance you all at Google are pursuing when it comes to generative AI reaching its potential, but also being smart about it and careful with it.
Yeah, thanks for that, because I really want to make clear here I am just talking about my own personal views. I am not representing Google's views on this. I actually am not on top of everything that Google believes. What I do know because I read the statement like the rest of the public did, that Google stance is that we need to be bold and responsible. I think we are in danger of walking away from the bold part in an overabundance of not just caution, but fear about
things that we just don't have any evidence for. I want to say this again, this is my view, not necessarily Google's view.
The thing that most concerns me about generitive AI is misinformation and the ability for bad actors to use that misinformation at scale to control outcomes like happens in social media. Exactly not that different than a lot of accusations that we saw fly in the wake of twenty sixteen and
twenty twenty elections here in the US. But if you thought a bot army of people, you know in Eastern Europe with social media, we're scary, then what about an actual bought army of generative AI that's able to you know, do this stuff at scale.
Andrew, Now that's a harm that we should be worrying about, because these are actual challenges, and like you say, bad actors are going to weaponize generative AI to do all kinds of harm or try to do all kinds of harm. This is a real risk. It's a real harm. I have faith in our ability to deal with the harms that technology brings us. I think we can find ways to have trusted sources that will verify whether a thing
is a deep fake or not. All of us have the new sources that we run to when we see something that might be true or might not be true. We can strengthen those kinds of institutions and those kinds of responses. We can also educate people to be more discerning consumers of the news.
You know you talk about You know, you have faith to deal with the harms of this technology maybe will ultimately bring us, should there there be some guardrails in place, you know, Amy once you know you know, shame or full me one. Shame on you for me twice, Shame on you know you.
Know what I mean? You know what I mean.
George W.
Bush Sutching.
But I guess my point is, whether it's social media, whether it's crypto, there's a lot of things out there that it's like, Oh, I guess we should have been doing this. Is there something we should have in place at this point when it comes to generative AI.
I think what we should have in place is a very agile system for becoming aware of the harms and dealing with the harms as they crop up. For example, after smartphones were out for a while, we learned that a bunch of losers were using them to take pictures of the skirts of women, you know, as they commuted to work on the subway. We didn't not love a smartphone. We didn't make smartphone makers apply for a license to
use a camera. We didn't make all of us apply for a license to have a camera equipped smartphone around the states. Anyway, lots of legislatures acted really quickly to make that particular use of the phone illegal. The beast response to the harms that come up is my preferred approach for dealing with these. I don't trust me or you or anybody else to sit around right here and correctly anticipate all of the things that will happen, and all of the effective ways to head that off. I just don't our.
Thanks to Andrew McAfee, principal research scientist at MIT. Check out his new book, It's called The Geek Way, The Radical Mindset that drives Extraordinary results. And stick with Bloomberg News for any future twists and turns from Open AI and the global AI race, Carol, I know that there will be more.
That's one thing we can kind of say for certainty. All right, coming up, everybody, We're going to shift our focus from corporate governance to governmental regulation when it comes to cutting edge technology. It's an area in which the European Union has led the way.
Former EU official and current head of France's independent public auditing body, Pierre Moscovici joins us. Next, you're listening to Bloomberg BusinessWeek. This is Bloomberg.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.
Earlier this month, France, Germany, and Italy reached an agreement on how artificial intelligence should be regulated. That's according to a joint paper seen by Reuters, which reports that negotiations are set to ramp up within the European Commission, the European Parliament and the EU Council.
The three governments support the concept of quote mandatory self regulation through codes of conduct for so called foundation models of AI. The paper goes on to say that the countries see risks in the applications of AI rather than in the technology itself.
Europe has been at the forefront of big tech oversight with policies such as the General Data Protection Regulation, which aims to protect data and information privacy for citizens of the block.
Our next guest was a member of the European Commission when GDPR was implemented. Pierre Moscovic now serves as first President of France's Court of Accounts. It's the country's supreme body for auditing the use of public funds in France. He joined Carol and Me and Studio to discuss their regulatory questions that AI now poses.
The whole world is enamored with artificial intelligence. All business. Global business feels like they are enamored about it, racing toward it. What are your thoughts when you think about artificial intelligence, the importance when it comes to a country's economy, businesses, economies.
Well, that's of course becoming huge and is going to be fantastic and gigantic in the future. Everybody knows that, and we all need to first invest on AI, use AI, and control AI. I chair an institution which troll is to control public finances. We are working on the strategy of the government for AI, and we are users of AI.
But I think that illustrates the conflict we are facing and we will be facing between the necessary to develop AI, to invest on the I, but also to regulate AI because there are matters there of ethics about how we can control the evolution of AI, the way it will change our lives, our freedoms also, and so that's a major issue on which we must work I would say intensively, but without fantasies.
So tell us about what concerns you like, what the guardrails in your opinion you think need to be in place when it comes to ethical use of AI and making sure that AI doesn't get out of control.
Well, again, I'm not especially still that, but I was a U commissioner for five years and before a finance minister that means Secretary of Treasury in my country. And I see that going on and raising rapidly, and we need absolutely to have rules about that. You know, the EU is a rules based system. The US is also a rules based country, and we need to have fun rule of law, absolutely, and we need to establish a law so that the ethics limits are fixed and they
are respected. And again without fantasis, let's not imagine that it's a big brother. That's not it. But we know that some uses of AI can be dangerous or threatening for our freedoms, for our lives too, and this needs to be addressed. As I said, we're a rule based system, and we are also involved in the global world, global economy and global institutions such as G twenty seven, IMF, etc. The good place where regulations should intervene is at the
European level, where United in Europe. And I don't think that national regulations are the proper answer you could have. I would say a EU regulation plus national applications of the regulations, and this is something that we should also proposed to the rest of the world.
Well, that's what I'm going to say. Global cooperation here in US.
Because I'm a member of the Board of Editors of the United Nations. I was with the Secretary Journal Antono Guteres, and he established a high level working group on AI with precisely that purpose to have a global answer to that.
Are there real fears though, like is it not a kin pre if? I may ask akin to the concern about just the data collection that has been done by so many of the global social media companies, whether it's a Google, whether it's a meta privacy concerns. Safe to say Europe has really led the way on this in terms of oversight. But is this a much bigger threat artificial or generative artificial intelligence?
Probably because it's the next step in technology, but it might be as well. New companies and also these ones we must watch that. You know, we we again were pioneers in regulating that in Europe in order to protect personal freedoms. I was a member of the Commission when we launched that, and I think that it's I wouldn't say an example, but something that the rest of the world can look after. And that's why we must think about the future of AI with I would say the same optic.
I wonder if there is this concern among entrepreneurs that the regulations could prevent companies from growing to their full extent in France or the EU versus other countries that don't have the same regulations and players.
Yeah, that's always the debate that we have. But I think that we can strike a right balance between competitiveness, which is absolutely decisive having growing businesses and AI is a fantastic source of revenues and as well job creation of ruanan, but also job destruction under changing.
Of jobs many innovative technology.
But this is something that is growing rapidly and we can see that it will I wouldn't say destroy, but change the course. Again an example, I was in the un There are translators there the future. They need to keep their jobs, but probably it will move with AI, it will transform. So the proper world probably is job transformation with the I. But again we must trike the right balance between competitiveness and the protection of our freedoms, because if we don't take care of that, well, we
could be in a mess a few times. And as this technology is fantastically growing and rapidly, well it could be faster than one may think. That's why I think regulation must be addressed as well. At the global level. This is UN or OCD or that kind of institutions. At the continental level, the global players in the world, the US, Europe, don't they're talking about China, India, et cetera,
must certainly have their own protection. And then we must also declined that at the national level we talked about trance. This is something also that we.
Can address, but not happening yet, not yet.
But I can see and maybe what happened to mister Outmann is an example of that that this research of the balance between competitiveness, profitability, raising business and ethics is a matter that is important as well for public regulators, for governments, but also in companies in business.
No, well said, right, because we've seen, we've seen what happens when really the business side kind of just runs. That's kind of the one mission. And I think about the data privacy issues which have come so much later, right, the oversight as these companies were building out, But maybe we just didn't realize.
But that's something that again Europe was in the lead
absolutely to develop. But you know this tech giants they must also, I mean, of course they must develop, but also behave I would say good citizens one another on which I concentrated or dedicated a lot of efforts when as the EU commissioned, was taxation, global taxation, And you know, there is an agreement at the OECD level signed by some one hundred and thirty countries which plans to tax properly, properly the digital sector, and it's not yet implemented, and
we must do that, and probably with AI, it's a kind of parallel altitude that we must think about.
That was Pierre Mascovec, first President of Francis Court of Accounts. Head on over to our podcast feed for more of our conversation with per and for his unique take on the health of the EU's second largest economy.
Still ahead on Bloomberg Business Week, as we continue to moll over ethical concerns around AI, let's not forget the clear and present danger posed to businesses by cybersecurity, in part due to the rapid advancements in artificial intelligence.
Wendy Thomas, the CEO of publicly traded Secure Works, stops by on the other side. This is Bloomberg.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Easter on Bloomberg Radio, the Bloomberg Business App, and YouTube. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station Just say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
We spoke earlier about the Open Ay drama as well as how global governments are approaching artificial intelligence from a regulatory perspective. Well, another factor to examine is AI's role in cybersecurity. Consider this prediction from tech consulting firm Gartner. By twenty twenty five, lack of talent or human failure will be responsible for over half of significant cyber incidents. Well, we've got a great voice on this issue.
Our next guest participated with you, Carol in the recent nine to eleven Memorial and Museum Summit on Security. A conversation with you on cyber threats and understanding the impact that they can have on organizations.
And we do want to point out the museum supported by Michael our Bloomberg of course, founder of Bloomberg Outp and Bloomberg Philanthropy. Is great to be talking once again with Wendy Thomas. She's CEO at Secure Work, She's on zoom Set the landscape. It's become kind of part of the norm of our world. But talk to us about cyber threats, the kind of trends we are seeing, where they're coming from, the typical kinds of incidents, if you will, and welcome back by the way.
Look, I mean, the average cost of a breach for a business in the US here to date this year is nearly ten million dollars apiece, and the global cost of cybercrime's expected to be three x what it was just a decade ago. We're talking about a transfer of wealth in the wrong direction that's probably the greatest in our history. So when we look across the landscape, to
your point, it is happening every single day. We're tracking about one hundred and thirty five active threat groups, and their activities are bucketed primarily into traditional cybercrime right just looking to extract profits, Nation state activity, which is clearly up in the wake of geopolitical events, and then activists who are concerned about those events and making their voice
heard through a variety of cyber attacks. So we see those activities continuing, and as those three sets of actors continue to leverage tried and true techniques scanning for software vulnerabilities and exploiting those, stealing credentials to log in and parade as someone else, and then sending those fishing emails which we've all received around certain topics. You click on those and then you've given them access to the castle.
So we just see the same actors using the same attack vectors and continuing to be successful.
Wendy, is there some sort of geographical profile of these different state and non state actors, I mean, is there a part of the world that they tend to come from or is it truly global?
Well, we certainly see them seeing talent around the globe, but in terms of nations. State actors and cyber crime groups, we see those coming out of China and Russia primarily respectively, but certainly Aroan, North Korea and others are active on the cyber stage. But cyber criminal groups, which are purely profit motivated, they do source talent, and unfortunately they use some of the same business models that our businesses do.
Ransomware as a service, where different groups specialize in either stealing those credentials, writing the malware, or other pieces of the supplied attack chain, they are able to specialize and then create business models for easy access for less sophisticated criminals to smash and grab and extract those rents, and.
They're moving more quickly right the time that they breach into your network and then the time they do some kind of attack. I remember a statistic when we talked. It's now I think, I like less than a day, less than twenty four hours.
It is on average this past year. It's from the time of intrusion to the time of breach, it's less than twenty four hours. It was about five days a year ago. And what we see, unfortunately, is that in about ten percent of those cases it's less than five hours.
And so when we talk to CEOs and CIOs about protecting their organization, it really is all about time, time to detect, time to respond, and that's where the power of artificial intelligence really comes into play to turn that back against the adversary.
How does that work when it comes to AI, I mean take us through the process here.
Sure, So when you think about how technology like secure works has where we're using artificial intelligence to really model and amplify what we see in terms of adversary of behavior inside of a network. So it's one to use software to detect when they're deploying malware in an organization, but it's another thing to know that the CEO's behavior
online or accessing certain information is unusual or anomalists. AI can help you not only understand what's anomalists, but put together much more data more quickly to say that it is both anomalists and malicious. And the ability to detect that quickly, to prioritize that, to raise it up to attention, and then for the system to orchestrate the response to protect the network is incredibly important. Speed security has to move the speed of business, Wendy.
When you guys have either a new client or existing client, I mean tell us are most are a lot of organizations. It could be nonprofits as well as publicly held companies or small companies, midsized companies are most institutions unprepared, under prepared.
Unfortunately, most organizations are more vulnerable than they realize, and it may be that they've done a great job of protecting their own assets, but they are inextricably linked with other vendors, other suppliers, and thinking about your security as having to secure those who are interoperating with your organization and your systems as much as you secure your own
castle is probably the most important. But the good news is that most cyber attacks, especially from cyber criminals, are absolutely opportunistic and so just creating some degree of friction that makes it more difficult for them to find that unlocked back door goes a long way in terms of, if not preventing breaches, absolutely mitigating the impact to the business. No.
I remember when we talked and I came in kind of hot and heavy into our studio on the Monday, was after sixty Minutes had aired a report. It was about the Five Eyes and this was the five security service heads or spy chiefs from the US, UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and they had taken a trip to Silicon Valley and they were talking about the greatest threat to innovation in the countries of the Five Eyes, and that was the threat and specifically Chinese industrial espionage, which I
think is kind of timely. But this idea of digital attacks, cyber attacks about getting into an organization industrial espionage, whether it's IP strategy at a company, I mean, is this happening more and more.
So?
China is absolutely the most active nation state that we see from a cyber perspective, and we watched them evolve over time. So in the past, those threat groups have had a reputation for sort of smash and grab, so steal that intellectual property around something that's important of electric battery developments or even agricultural innovation and scale, and so that emphasis was really about just achieving the objective as
quickly as possible. But what we've seen more recently is that a growing number of Chinese threat groups have demonstrated an increasing focus on stealth and operational security and their intrusions, and so it is often difficult for organizations to know that the Chinese are in fact inside of their networks and able to over a sustained period of time, not only collect information, but determine what information is most valuable and important to them, and do so leaving a minimal
intrusion footprint by leveraging a setup defense evasion techniques that we've seen increasingly in place.
Hey, one thing, Wendy, I always like to ask people in your positions are just how you conduct yourself as a normal consumer online. You know what is possible, you know what to watch out for, of course, but you also probably do online banking and you probably have many, many passwords for consumer facing websites.
How do you do it?
I do have a little extra vigilize around my online activities and persona as you might imagine. First and foremost, I do use separate devices for doing things like online banking. One of the most important things you can do is
absolutely difficult and unique passwords for your online activity. I'm sure all of you have received emails where your password has been stolen, and therefore if it is able to access any other application online that you're using, it's really important that you have a diversity of passwords and that you have secured the location of those passwords. No putting those in your phone notes or that type of thing when they're accessible.
That was Wendy Thomas, CEO it Secure Works. Here more tips from Wendy and keeping your personal and business data safe.
On our podcast feed, you're listening to Bloomberg business Week. We just heard how companies need to be vigilant about having cybersecurity systems in place as part of their IT spend. Our next guest weighs in on where those all important IT dollars are flowing at the corporate level.
We speak with Ignite CEO of Venite Jane. When we come back, this is Bloomberg.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app and the Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.
Well, let's get to our next guest. He's the co founder and CEO of Ignite. It's a software company that focuses on data security, data governance, collaboration software. The startup is rates about one hundred and forty million dollars from backers including Golden Sachs, Kleiner Perkins, Google Ventures, and it's got an annual runwrate of more than two hundred million dollars, growing between twenty five and thirty five percent.
With us is with us is Vanite Jane. He is co founder and CEO of Ignite Vanit. It is so good to have you here with us. We want to talk about your business and kind of get your thoughts on some different things. But what are you guys seeing in terms of the business environment.
You know why you're hearing a lot about how the spending climate is very tough for extra deal scrutiny. Every dollar spend, especially on subscription services leave aside hardware is being questioned. While all that is true, we're kind of seeing a dichotomy. There's a class of companies which are eking out respectable growth present company included, versus those which are not making the earnings or whatever the expected earnings were.
So I think it is coming down to execution and the focus in terms of refining your go to market product market mix, and therefore the performance is kind of mixed. Some companies are doing very well, a lot of companies are struggling.
Sa viny from your perspective advantage point, how would you describe the economy?
So when I look at our target market, because my answer is going to be in the context of the market were going after both in terms of geographies and certain industries. So we are predominantly North America. Eighty eight percent of our revenue comes from North America, twelve percent from Europe. And within the US, there are three industries we're focused on specifically. One is AEC, which is an acronym for architecture entering construction. The second one is biotech
life sciences. Third one is financial services AC in particular is booming. Construction companies, architecture entering firms that we speak with, they're saying they have a book of business which is filled out till end of next year. But even there, you're seeing companies focused in Florida, companies focused in Texas they're doing very well. Companies focused in New York or let's say my neck of the goods, San Francisco not
so much. Biotech life sciences is taken up in terms of lack of follow funding funding being hard to come by, but financial services, on the other hand, is rocketing. So it's kind of a mixed back. So from my perspective, if something ebbs, something else flows, and we just have to figure out how to make our numbers to be in that twenty five to thirty person growth range, which has been core to our operations for the last eight years.
The geographical difference is is it just because that's where certain markets are located in terms of your three different businesses or what's doing well versus not? Or is it because more expensive parts of the country to kind of live and operate for businesses and that's problematic. I'm just curious about those I thought it was interesting you said Texas doing.
Well or is it secut or not?
Yeah, And that's what I'm trying to get to. Is it or is it sector based?
You know, it's predominantly sector based. But then when you look at biotech life sciences, it's concentrated in three areas, right, It's San Diego, South, San Francisco, and Boston. But honestly, as you said, it kind of boils down to very specific industries and within that the size of the company. Like when you look at construction engineering, the big gcs, general contractors, mid size, small sized, subcons, electrical, mechanical, they're
all doing very well. But in life sciences the early stage they emerging biotech they're struggling, whereas the big guy, especially the ones if they are in the obcit drug business like you've been hearing about the monor disk Ali Lilly business is going.
That's Vinet Jane, the co founder and CEO of Ignite. More from Venie on the Business Week podcast feed, including his company's prospects for an IPO, and that wraps up the first hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Ahead in our next hour, it's a holiday weekend and we're talking food, or maybe a lack thereof. Our Business Week team explores how ozempic may
have rocked Thanksgiving meals everywhere. Does that mean, Carol, I only have to bring one cheesecake rather than two cheesecakes?
That just might be especially there are folks tapping into ozempic at your Thanksgiving dinner table, all right? Plus what's on the menu of fast casual dining. Pioneer ron Shake chef Emeral Lagassi's son e J carves his own culinary path. We'll hear from him as well. And a ninety year old coffee maker prepares for the future. This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm hungry, and.
I'm Tim Steneveek. Stay with us. Today's top stories and global business headlines are coming up right now.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Easter on Bloomberg Radio, the bloom Work Business app, and YouTube. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Plenty ahead in our second hour of this holiday weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week, A very happy Thanksgiving to everybody. We've got coming up a conversation with the son of renowned chef em roal Lagasi. I'm continuing a family tradition in the kitchen, and along those same lines, the patriarch of coffee and espresso maker Elei Cafe tells us what's next for the ninety year old company.
Plus o Zapick and other weight loss drugs appear to have made a big dent in Thanksgiving food consumption, while let's focus on the turkey and trimmings could be an ominous sign of what's to come for food companies.
Man, it's a series of drugs that's just disrupting our world in so many ways. All right, First up this hour, we welcome back Ron Shake. He is the founder and former chairman and CEO of Panera Bread and Albon Pan and is today the chairman of Cava, Tate, Life Alive and Level ninety nine.
He recently joined us to discuss his new book, Know What Matters, lessons from a lifetime of transformations in his path to becoming the father of fast casual dining.
You know, we sold can Era for seven billion dollars and put it in good hands. And we're just applying the very same disciplines. We're picking the categories of the future, the categories with tailwinds, and then we're helping build the dominant brands in those categories. Mediterranean, positive eating, immersive entertainment, third wave, bakery, cafe. It's literally the same thing, transformation, over and over and over. But but you know, you
asked me about fast casual. It's hard for me to imagine. I can remember nineteen ninety three, ninety four, and ninety five and we were beginning to think about what fast
casual could be. It was simply a reaction to what existed at that time, fast food and fine dining, and with empathy, we we're looking at We're talking to consumers and they were saying I wanted something more, I want, you know, And we began to imagine if we could deliver real food environments that engage our customers, if we could do it with people who cared, we had the
opportunity to change the currencies of that industry. The currencies of fast food were a lot of food for not a lot of money, and we began to say what we could offer is actually something that elevated people's self esteem for just a few dollars. More, what's amazing to me is that understanding, this understanding that people wanted something better has grown into, as you put it, one hundred
and ninety billion dollars. And the truth of the matter is the number one thing in business is trying to understand with empathy what drives consumers, what matters to them, What are they going to care about tomorrow.
Brands, you know, get caught up in politics. Your brands haven't. But it's just interesting that it's it's tough running a brand or creating a brand and making sure you're tapping in to consumers in a way that doesn't alienate right or even like whether through advertising or marketing, like, I don't know, I don't know how you think about that. You know, the companies there's been Disney targeted, Budweiser that have been targeted. It's sometimes hard being a company in today's space.
Totally, and I'm glad I'm not a CEO having to make those determinations. But having said that, I'll speak to it because I have and over years I've taken positions and and and here's the point We don't want to allow our brands to be the bully pulpit for whatever political forces are playing out in society. We represent our shareholders. We need to be careful. But what we do want to do is take positions relative to issues of humanity, and that's very different than political stands. So let me
let me be clear. You you need to call out the atrocity of what Hamas did simultaneously during the George Floyd instance, you need to call out the lack of humanity in what happened to George Floyd. You have to call out that the death of innocent children in Gaza. They're all issues of humanity. And my point is at the core, we have a responsibility to validate and speak to the human needs of our team members and our consumers, and in every one of those cases, they are all
about humanity and calling that out in a real way. Ron.
It's interesting you've used several times in our interview, which has just been a few minutes, the word empathy, and you've set humanity several times. And you know, at the end of the day, we're talking about fast casual restaurants, you know, And I'm just really interested to hear this approach, whether it you know, and how it comes to your customers, and how it comes to your employees, and how it comes to you deciding Okay, what's the next thing that
a customer is going to want tomorrow? And how is empathy tied into that?
You know, that's that's great, Tim, It's at the very core of everything.
You know.
We're in a consumer business and the most powerful skill in business, in leading these companies is to feel, is to feel the needs of our guests. The reason, the only reason to exist is to be a better competitive alternative. A lot of the discussion we have on these kinds of programs are about value creation. But value creation is not something I can make. It's a byproduct. It's a byproduct of what It's a byproduct of being a better
competitive alternative. For some consumers. What is a better competitive alternative? It means I'm a place that my target customer are going to walk past my competitors and choose us. That's
the essence of value. That's what creates value. So the means to that is understanding what drives my consumer, listening to them, and that's where empathy comes in, and then being able to do it So the mantra in this book is tell the truth, figure out or know what matters, and then get it done and over and over and over. That has worked.
Ron is it easier to do it in a private company privately held company versus a publicly held company, And you've seen both sides of.
That for sure.
I mean, the less the constituents, the easier.
It is for all of us.
Having said that, we just were involved in the IPO of Cava. Cava is a superb public company. Deserves to be public, but not every company does. Nine of the CEOs I talk to who go public live to regret it. I don't think that's going to happen in Cava. Cava is a powerfully strong brand. It exists in a category with powerful tailwinds Mediterranean and Mediterranean is powerful. It's the number one diet in the country. It's got bold but familiar flavors, flavors that feel safe, and Covet has been
built to be the dominant brand in that category. It's because of that and because it's got so much growth ahead of it, which really is what drives the multiple. So much growth ahead of it that it deserves to be a public company. It's got a management team that knows how to run a public company. It's got an organization that can run a larger organization. It's been prepared to be a public company. But the truth of the matter is many companies aren't ripe or right to be a public company.
What's one fast casual chain or restaurant that you wish you were a part of, but you're.
Not Freezing Cane, Chick fil A. They're all great. I honestly, I love the concepts where invested in. You know, Tate is killing it Life Alive, you know level ninety nine. I mean, we wouldn't have put our own money on the line. This is our money.
We don't have LPs.
We took about two hundred and fifty million and now a portfolio worth an excess of a billion dollars.
Ron.
What I wonder about is know what matters? Tell us about this book and why you wanted to do it, and why you wanted to do it now.
You know, I wanted this book for my kids. I wanted this book for all the companies we're investing in. There's a way to do it, a better way to do it, a way to build a company of quality, and build a company that has values. And I also very much wanted to write something that broke the genre. Most of these books written by former CEOs are you know stories. They're saying I did it. You know, I did very well. You know, if you do like I do,
you can do well. That's not the reality. This is tough stuff, and I wanted to speak about how do you do it, how do you figure out today what's going to matter tomorrow, how do you run a large public company? Thank you, how do you figure out what it means to be an entrepreneur? And then, most importantly, what I wanted was to speak about the humanity of
the experience of running a public company. What it means when you have people's lives on the line, when you have thousands, hundreds of thousands of people that are counting on you to make the right decision, six seven eight billion dollars of investor capital on the line, and what that feels like sitting on your shoulders when you're taking
these companies through massive transformation. So that, to me, is the really powerful stuff in this book, the lessons and the humanity of it, as opposed to simply.
The stories that's ron shake chairman and lead investor in Kaba Tate, Life Alive and Level ninety nine. His new book Know What Matters is out now.
You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Coming up, we go inside the kitchen with EJ. Lagassi, one of celebrity chef Emerald Agassi, who's continuing a decades long tradition of culinary greatness.
You know, there's a standard that I learned as coming up and working in our family restaurants and stuff like that and just being around there that I was taught to upkeep, and I think the goal is just sort of curating that, bringing the restaurants into the next stage of their lives. You know, their restaurants that have been around for thirty three years. You can't throw a stick of dynamite in the room and cover the years and just let the place, you know, change totally.
This is Bloomberg.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.
Just about a year ago, Tim and I caught up with one of the iconic chefs of our time. We're talking about Emerald Lagasi. We spoke with him about his cooking show on Roku that had just come out, and also about sharing his passion with the next generation, specifically his son e J.
And exactly one year to the day from when Emerald paid a visit to our New York studios, we had the pleasure of catching up with Ej too. He had just received the prestigious New Talent of the Year award from La List. It's a French ranking and restaurant's guide, and yet his attention remains solely on his craft, not when it comes to the accolades.
I have a love for food myself, right that I think is independent from my father a bit, you know. I think that there's a lot of passion that I have for it. That is, that is a naturally occurring passion, but it certainly you know, exaggerated the passion having my dad be so involved and always willing to show, you know, in a sort of educational sense, show a lot about cooking,
which was which was great. He did it on television for many years, showing everybody, you know, how to cook and things like that.
Kind of really one of the first individuals if you think about it, I think so.
Yeah, I think so, And it carried over for shore into the house.
So I want to know how you felt about the desire to prove yourself in the kitchen. Yah, when you come from a family that is so well known for cooking, when somebody who might not know you might say to themselves, well, look where he is. He's only there because of who his dad is. How do you deal with that criticism? How do you push past it?
Well, you know, it's something that probably comes up quite a bit that some people would throw on.
Look.
I mean the thing is is, I know I'm comfortable in my own skin. I know the fact that I've spent hours in the kitchens right and not ours, which is what I think the big thing was. I think had I stayed in just our kitchens and just been at Emeralds or something, that it would very easily be who pushed you to work harder?
You know?
I remember very early conversation with my father. I mean, you know, it's a conversation with me. I'm like thirteen, fourteen years old. He's like, you're going to have to work twice as hard as anybody in the room because of that. And really so that was I think part of the whole philosophy of me maybe leaving the nest
and going and working other places. And I work here in New York for a bit, and then in London and in Stockholm as well, and so was able to see how other people did it, and and and I think that that was a big key and being confident myself to be able to push past that. And then for the you know, for the the comment that comes from that, you know, I just invite people to, you know, eat at the restaurant. That's really all I can do is cook at that point.
And we want to talk about the restaurant that just is reopening after renovation in New Orleans. But you did go to culinary school.
I graduated a.
Year No, I graduated, uh three years ago, three years ago, twenty twenty.
One one, forgive me, forgive me. And then you were what did you learn in that process of kind of you said, you like you learned different ways of people doing it. But what was that process like as you go around the.
World, Well, you know the process, and did you.
Have an advantage when people are like, I know that last name.
No, you know, I was an art in Europe. In Europe, not really many people knew. I mean here in New York they knew and and and some of the restaurants that I worked in here it was it was really nice because some of them actually kept people from knowing that. It ended up coming out eventually anyway. But it was like sith, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I wasn't, you know, John smithing my way through the restaurants. But it was it was. It was a process of working and learning.
And it's not just actually like technique or you know, recipes or ingredients and things like that. It was how people conduct themselves in kitchens. I think that was a lot of it too, and how to conduct themselves as restaurant tours and as chefs that I think I picked up. And you know, it's like learning a language. When you're young. You're like a sponge at that point. So yeah, but you're learning. I mean, my my, my dad's an older gentleman now, and I'm he's not a younger. No, no, no, no,
what is it like mid sixties. Yeah, he's like sixty four. Yeah, you know, and so hey, no, no.
No, John Tucker's all upset.
And and and so you know, I mean I think that there is there is that just you know, we love cooking, and and it was always going to be something that I wanted to be able to do. And that and whether I did it in the restaurants or did it for my family one day or whatever that may be, I was always going to learn how to cook, being you know, his son and that, and I think that he made sure of that, but it ended up, you know, working to my advantage.
How old were you when you went to culinary school?
I was seventeen, sixteen, seventeen, And how old are you know at twenty?
So you're people listening might not realize how young you are. You're sure, yeah, you're I mean, even though you grew up in the in the business.
I mean, you're a baby baby.
It must also be difficult, though, like separating yourself. I mean, you get the same name as your dad, right, the exact sement, Yeah, separating yourself in terms of the way you think about food, the way you think about cooking. How would you say your cooking philosophy is different? Or how do you want to distinguish yourself from from your dad?
You know, I I I was asked this the other day by somebody, And I don't know if there's such a need to distinguish and be different. You know, I think that there's there's a desire to continue on a legacy of stuff that's done not necessarily through food television, but through the actual restaurants themselves. And you know, there's a standard that I learned as coming up and working in our family restaurants and stuff like that and just
being around there that I was taught to upkeep. And I think the goal is just sort of curating that, bringing the restaurants into the next stage of their lives. You know, their restaurants that have been around for thirty three years. You can't throw a stick of dynamite in the room and cover the years and just let the place, you know, change totally. But you know, I don't know
if I focus enough personally on differentiating myself. I think it's a lot more of you know, paying homage well, trying to sort of push push things in a new contemporary direction.
Let's talk about the flagship in New Orleans. Emeralds all started there what some three decades and counting three decades ago, massive renovations, But you say, how you are sticking true to your dad and his legacy in terms of food, but there are new tasting menus and you are shaking it up a bit. Talk to us about the reboot.
I mean, it's been it's been really great fun. I've got a fantastic team at the restaurant. I'd say it's probably split fifty to fifty New Orleanians to people that are from around the country as well some people that I worked with beforehand that have now come and joined us, which has been a real pleasure and an honor. But you know, I think the fun thing is now Emeralds always had a tasting menu. There was the Ala Kart
menu in the tasting menu. It was always I mean, I've heard stories of you know, Chef Charlie Trotter and my dad back in the day, like faxing each other tasting menus back and forth and things like that. All the great stories you hear, and you know, so we've always had a tasting menu, and so I think that when I decided to do two tasting menus, it's a
classic menu and a seasonal menu. It's my take on sort of like the Greatest Hits album, if you will, with the classics menu and then with the seasonal stuff, we're really pushing something that my dad was super proud of a long time ago, which was the seasonality of the produce in Louisiana. You know, we're blessed being in the Gulf of Mexico and the Gulf South region to be able to have some of the most incredible seafood, I think personally in the world. And so it's a
high utilization of that. It's a lot of local veg local produce that's coming from independent farmers and things. And you know, my dad did a lot of that, and I hear a lot of the stories of him from purveyors that are, you know, in their fifties and their forties and their sixties that are telling me, hey, I remember when your dad came to New Orleans and he did this, this, this, and this and this that and the other. And I think getting to hear those stories,
it's quite fun. And you know, I say to myself, I said it to my dad the other day, this when we opened the restaurant. I said, this must have been what it felt like when you when you open the restaurant, because it was just like, I mean, knew it was just I think, you know, the opening day, we didn't open until five pm for dinner service, and I think I showed up at five am just because I couldn't sleep. I was so excited.
You know, Well, why do you ask your dad about the business?
I mean I call him from anything from you know, shrimp stock tips to to you know, how we're going to get labor down this month. It just depends on sort of really you know, what's needed at the moment. He's a wealth of knowledge. I've understood that since I was little. His friends are wealth of knowledge and being able to have the relationship. I mean, that is the leg up that I have is that I'm able to contact people and really ask their advice on things that
I couldn't even dream of knowing the answer to. So that's a great benefit to me.
That's e J Legasi, chef in Restaurant Tour and of course the son of Emerald Legasi. More of our conversation with Ej is available on our podcast feed.
Just twenty years old, isn't that crazy?
Yeah?
I mean I don't. Yeah, he's like and he's done with culinary school and already has a restaurant.
Oh my God, all right, still to come on Blueberg Business Week. Whether it's a cup of coffee in the morning or an espresso after a great meal, one name has managed to become synonymous with both.
Eally, the chairman of the ninety year old family run business, breaks down the massive global market. Next, this is Bloomberg.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Easter on Bloomberg Radio, the Bloomberg Business app and YouTube. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa to play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Well, we've been talking a lot about food on this holiday week, and we also have to acknowledge a favorite beverage for hundreds of millions of people around the world. No, we're not talking about beer or wine. We're talking about coffee, and I think it's safe to say. Our next guest is an expert on the subject.
Elie Cafe chairman Andrea Eely, the grandson of Eli, founder of Francesco Ely, who started the coffee company ninety years ago in Italy. By the way, if you had any sort of espresso drink today. You can thank Andrea's grandfather because he invented the steam driven coffee maker that we now know as espresso machines.
What was it like growing up with that history.
Oh, I felt it was coffee was at the center of the universe because my father, as I am, was a chemist, always thinking and talking about coffee, and he started drinking coffee, sipping, let's say, coffee, when I was two and a half years old, and since then always coffee, coffee, coffee.
Cofee, always coffee cofee.
So there's no it's not too two is not too young to drink coffee.
No, it was just sipping, you know, admiring my mother, you know, trying to prepare express with these little tiny express machines at home at the time, no capsules that were still existing, because we started the very first capsule portion fifteen years later than that, in order to you know, make it easier to produce coffee everywhere in the restaurants or offices or home. But before that it was quite difficult.
You needed to be a trained barista. But in this case you need to have a cumber zomee, a big machine at home was very difficult, so and my father I nicknamed her the Engineer of Coffee, you know, was a precursor to this, you know, expertise in home express of brewing.
So Andrea, how comes is there's so many bad cups of coffee out there? What makes a great cup of coffee?
Well, you need good beans, first of all, and it's difficult to access them, just to tell you. In order to access to good beans with this pioneer the direct in nineteen ninety one, so we did organize ourselves to go direct, working hand in hand with coffee growers. And the second major step has been creating the University of Coffee in order to transfer knowledge to them how to
elevate their agronomical practices for better sustainable quality. And this is the reason why we had this award that we are giving tomorrow to the best growers of the nine let's say origins where we sous coffee from. But producing high quality coffee is not an easy job. So direct Trading, University of Coffee Electronics sorting out every single beam. This has been one of our patents, sorting every single bean, because one defective bean can spoil up to one keylo
of coffee. You know, this is an amazing. Let's say science behind and this is the reason why I'm second generation scientist, a chemist for coffee.
For coffee quality.
How often do you find a bad being that could spoil an entire kilo of coffee?
Like?
How how what is the rate of a bad being within a badge?
So at the time we started sorting, it was maybe two three percent. Now is less than half a percent. Also, because in the meantime we did improve substantially agronomical practices, some of these defective beans could be invisible because maybe they have some off flavors that you cannot that you cannot find, So it can still happen. But if everything
is well processed, then you can prevent that. But this is not the standard in the industry because the coffee coffee growers produce for us are specifically produced for us. We buy coffee upon our own standards. Coffee rollers like to joke about it. Eli coffee doesn't exist because it
doesn't correspond to any official market standard. And this is the reason why we also pay a substantial premium for that, because on average we pay thirty percent premium on top of the best highest coffee prices in order to motivate them and reward them for the extra effort for producing superior quality.
Is it harder to grow better coffee beans?
It is harder. You need the right people. This is why direct sourcing because we need to really get access to the people who are, let's say, philosophically seeking the best in life. No matter how rich or how educated they are, there are some people like that. You need to find the perfect ecosystem. Yeah, you know, weather, soil, like the turire, they.
Tie the I feel like I'm talking about wine.
Exactly exactly the same. You need to find the right cultivar, so the right plant, and finally you need those people to process coffee in a way which is perfect. So yes, it takes quite an.
Effort and increasingly sustainable, which when you talk about standards. I want to talk a little bit about this award that is being given at the United Nations, the unesto ELI International Coffee Award. It is to the individual, the farmer that produce the most sustainable coffee. And what's interesting is that we're having this conversation. I've talked with the folks over at ab and BEV like they understand the importance of water, like their business will not continue unless
they have great access to water and other things. Obviously crops that go into beverages. Same thing for you guys, right in terms of the impact on the environment, Yes, your businesses, you need to make sure it's done in a sustainable so.
Yes, the award is for the lest sustainable quality. So in the company was born ninety years ago upon my grandfather dreamed to offer the greatest coffee, and so as a strategy we decided to have only one because the greatest can be only one, right, and of course the greatest need only need must only not only be the best in taste, but also the best in how it is produced. Actually, as a matter of fact, sustainability and quality are two phases of the same coin. You don't have the one.
Without the others.
So it's not difficult for us to kind of, let's say, find find a way. And this award, this blend that we produce is made of nine origins because each origin has a different aroma profile. It's like having a nice orchestra,
and the more instruments you have, the richest the orchestra. Okay, so nine and the three best growers of each of the nine origins are awarded tomorrow at the United Nations, so they would know who's the first, second, and third and go back home with extreme satisfaction and being completely boosted motivation wise, etc. Which is also helping them to sell the rest of the coffee. They don't sell too
early to the rest of the market at premiums. So the company ily Cafe has been a knowledge in many countries for having contributed to transform the coffee industry in a let's say, more sustainable way, and this is we are very proud of.
I want to get to climate change and the impact it has had on farmers who grow coffee beings.
Yeah, coffee growing, coffee agriculture is very very sensitive to climate conditions. Do you have narrow conditions to grow coffee in terms of temperature and rain? And as a consequence of climate change, up to fifty percent of the currently suitable land will be gone by twenty fifty. Already there are some countries which are gradually exiting the market. There's a consequence of climate change, so we have to adapt as quickly as possible. And in order to adapt, there
are three sequential actions to be done. First, improving the agronomical practices transitioning regenerative agriculture seems to be the most promising. One second most important move is rejuvenating the plantation themselves with younger plants, but also plants made of new varieties which are more resistant to the adverse conditions caused by
climate change. And only if these to first initiatives are not enough, then you can consider moving by grating the plantation too higher latitudes or higher altitudes where you can meet at milder climates.
That's Elie Cafe chairman Andrea Eely. He also told us the company is still eyeing an IPO in twenty twenty six, so we'll certainly be on the lookout for that.
You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Coming up, we wrap up with the sobering reality facing food manufacturers and retailers.
Millions of Americans are now taking appetite suppressing drugs, and that's whang on the bottom line. This is Bloomberg.
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern Listen on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, and the Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.
Winding down on this post Thanksgiving edition of Bloomberg Business Week, our magazine team has a store that adds some irony to a holiday known for high levels of food consumption. Americans are eating less these days, actually a lot less.
Prescriptions for US of drugs known as GLP one agonists such as ozempic and wegovy quadrupled from twenty twenty to twenty twenty two, and it looks like there's plenty more growth ahead for these pharmaceuticals in the US as drug maker search for even more clinical uses. Blueberg News consumer reporter Dina Shanker has more.
Millions of Americans now are taking these drugs. They are up three hundred percent. They are just getting really really popular for a lot of people.
It's like off the charts. It's pretty wild. I've seen it firsthand with people who are using it or taking it, and it really does reduce their appetite in a big, big way. They're just not hungry. So I think about the impact of that. Talked about some of the specific people you talk to.
So I spoke to four different people that are currently taking the drugs, and everyone was really happy with the changes in their life and especially what it meant for Thanksgiving. One woman I spoke to talked about not just for herself, but also her children'een and twenty one years.
Old, who have been taking these drugs.
And they have just seen not just great weight loss results, which I know everybody wants when they're taking them, but.
They're also just looking at their food differently.
They're open to her kids are open to eating things that they weren't eating before.
She was so.
Excited about how now she gets to add more fruits and vegetables to the table. And everyone I spoke to is thinking about the holiday differently. Another woman I spoke with for Thanksgiving, she said she used to spend weeks in advance, you know, looking for the best recipes as she got her menu ready. But one of the things that these drugs do is they turn off the food noise, as it's called, so you're just not thinking about the
food all the time. So she's like, I'll do She's still going to make everything, and she's actually even skipping her shot so that she can enjoy yourself a bit more. But she's just not thinking about food all the time.
That's so interesting. I just want to cut you off here. Dina what you skipping her shot? What do you mean by that? Because these are monthly injections, right.
Weekly, I believe weekly?
Okay, skipping this week?
So she's skipping this week, So that means she's sounds great?
Is that?
But is that? I mean, I know you're not a doctor, we're not doctors here, but is that? Is that how the shot works?
She thinks it's going to work for her that way? I don't know that doctors would advise people to do this. But one of the interesting things about these shots and about these drugs is that they were initially actually, you know, not for weight loss. They were for diabetes, and so a lot of the uses of them are off label, so because they're being used as a weight loss drug
instead of as a as a diabetes drug. So I think what we're seeing both with the people using them and at the clinical level is a lot of they're still studying it. They're still trying to find out all the different things that these drugs can do. So for some people they have just been incredible weight loss miracle drugs, as they describe them. But I should add that one of the health professionals I spoke with, a pharmacist was really quick to make sure that we didn't discount the
work that the patients are doing. That it's not just like you take your injection and you're done and you never think about food again and the pounds start melting off. She was saying how it's really important that people are learning how to manage their serving sizes. They're going for
that walk after dinner, they're sticking it out through. Sometimes people experience really bad side effects like nausea, and they are really taking advantage of the benefits of the drug, but they're not completely relying on the drug.
That was Bloomberg News consumer reporter Dina Shanker. Check out her story online at Bloomberg dot com or on the Bloomberg terminal.
And that wraps up this weekend holiday edition a Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Thank you so much for joining us.
Be sure to tune into Bloomberg Business Week Monday through Friday starting at three pm Wall Street Time on Bloomberg Radio and on serious XM Channel one twenty one.
You can also watch our daily broadcast on YouTube. Just search Bloomberg Global News for some account on Bloomberg originals available at Bloomberg dot Com, Slash Originals, and streaming platforms such as Roku, Amazon, fireTV, Samsung TV Plus and more.
Find our Bloomberg BusinessWeek podcast at Bloomberg dot com, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts, and the latest edition of the magazine is available on newsstands now at Bloomberg dot com and always on the Bloomberg Terminal. I'm Tim Steneveek Back to.
The Pie we Go. I'm Carol Masser. Have a good and safe rest of your holiday weekend. Stay with us. Today's top stories and global business headlines are coming up right now.
This is the Bloomberg BusinessWeek Podcast. Avail little on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday afternoons from three to six Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Terminal.