Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - May 28th, 2021

a double issue of the magazine coming up. But look at the promise of bitcoin with the CEO of digital wallet company Ballet. Also an important and solemn week is we marked the one year anniversary of the death of George Floyd, the president and CEO of the National Urban League. On where we are today a really thoughtful conversation, plus Lords of London on billions of dollars of claims during

the pandemic. All of that to come. We begin with this week's cover story, someone who is well known to our Bloomberg audience for her investment bets and her per formans. It's all about Kathy Would, who has become a star both in and outside of the world of e t s. They call her money Tree in South Korea and the Godmother in Hong Kong. Joining us now is Joel Weber, editor at Bloomberg business Week, and Ben Steveerman, personal Finance

editor at Bloomberg News. Joel Uh. People may know about Kathy Would over the last year because she has become this celebrity inside and outside of finance, but she got started at ARC relatively late in her career and she's been at this for years. Yeah, And what we really tried to do, I think we talked about Kathy Would almost every day in general at Bloomberg News because it's become just one of the most remarkable stories of the

past year. Um. But we what we tried to do and what Ben in Um, Claire Valentine and any Massa did with this cover story was really tried to tell a bigger story about who Kathy Wood is, where she can came from, how she's up ended investing and and maybe pull you know, pull some things that out that nobody you had ever really known about her, and they did that, and you know, it's really rooted in her I think having a really deep understanding of the financial industry.

Before she started arc Um, she she had an active the idea of doing an actively managed g T F at um Alliance Bernstein, which basically said, we don't want you to do that, and she went out and did it anyway, and that's made her basically one of the biggest names in in finance at the moment um And Ben, as you just started to you know, working on this story, what what stuck out to you? What makes Cathy different

and special? So I think that you know, in the last year, the pandemic has created um a lot of frenzies. Like we've seen a lot of frenzies in the stock market, and we've seen a lot of people promoting themselves and promoting their SPACs, and we've seen a lot of that phenomenon of almost celebrity culture coming into finance and investing. And so I approach Cathy would as maybe part of that.

But now, you know, the more I looked at her, the more I realized that she's actually been this same person for for for decades, Like she is obsessed with innovation and the future and and what she was saying, you know, five years before the pandemic is the same thing she's saying now more or less, maybe the timeline has accelerated a bit in terms of the the changes

she sees in the economy and the stock market. But um, I really think that um investing in these these future technologies is more is almost more about her her like philosophy of life than it is about making money. I mean, of course she's in it to make money, but I

think she has broader goals in mind. Well then to that point, and among the many, many new things that I learned about Cathy would in this cover story about you and Claire and Annie has has been that she talked about that She had this rarely prescient comment back in February of twenty nineteen when she told a podcast, it's the the best thing that can happen for us. And this is going to sound odd. Is a crisis, It's usually when innovation takes root and gains traction. So so,

how did that play out during the pandemic? How did this five year time arise and that she talks about so much, Trunk had accelerate, Yeah, I mean, she it's incredible if you look at the numbers on her flagship et F. I mean we're talking about a hundred fifty return. She was right on she she she she captured the mood of the market in that moment, and then it

continued to go up all the way into February. Now since then, um, she's lost about a third of the value in in her fund because you know, as the economy has reopened, the market has been shifting towards a little bit more boring stocks of the broader the rally is broadened out. And she says that's actually good for her because it means that means that this is actually

a sustainable bull market. And she's keeps selling her investors who's mostly stuck with their that um that she has a five year time horizon and she still expects her portfolio to triple over those five years. Funny if people don't believe that, I gotta say um. And so we try to reflect the debate in the story about you know, is she right, is she wrong? Um? You know, is this a real grounded opinion or or is she just really hoping against hope? But um, but she's she seems

pretty unruffled by what's happened recently. That was Bloomberg News reporter Ben Steve Berman and Business Week editor Joel Weber Coming up. It's been just over a years since George Floyd's murder sparked outrage across the globe and became a turning point in the movement to end racially motivated police violence. National or Been League President and CEO Mark Morial on the progress we've made sense and how far there's still

to go. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Massier and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovik from Bloomberg Radio. Nine minutes, twenty nine seconds. That's how long it took for George Floyd to lose his life one year ago this week, at the hands of a white Minneapolis police officer, Derek Chauvin. Now the revelation of that loss of life seen by the world, so many of us stuck at home because

of the pandemic. It ignited rage, set off protests and soul searching not seen in years. The problems not new, change and solutions still a work in progress. For more on where we are, what we've learned one year later, and how much more we have to go. Carol, you caught up with National Urban League President CEO Mark Morial, along with Bloomberg News New York Deputy Bureau Chief Shartilla Brantley, on the one year anniversary of the death of George Floyd.

It's all about action now. Last year, you know, there was a lot of talk, a lot of pledges, a lot of commitments, and that's a good thing. But I think as we've seen work from home advance by leaps and bounds, people want to see equity and equality advanced by leaps and bounds. And I think people are done with the incremental, you know, progress, the glacial pace of progress. And you know, I'll give it to our gen z,

the Zoomers. They're over it. They want it yesterday, right tomorrow exactly and safe to say after, you know, when after George Floyd, like we just talked about, We've had so many conversations. Let's see the action. Mark. The problem is not new. Where are we today, what have we learned? And how much more do we have to go? In your view, I think we should keep in mind that the courage of Darnella Frasier, a teenage girl who had the presence of mind to pull out our iPhone and tape.

What was happening to George Floyd is the reason we are here today. UH. If but for what she did, this would have been subject to what so many of these police UH incidents UH involved in. That is UH fictitious stories, misrepresentations, and lying about what has happened. We see it in the Ronald Green case in Louisiana, where the officers said that Ronald Green died from a quote automobile accident, Yet when the tape comes out, it's clear

that they beat him to death for no reason. So I want everyone to remember that it was the wake of the presence of mind, and that we need people and citizens to have the presence of mind to capture incidents of injustice. Having said that, I think that the George Floyd moment is a moment that accelerated this new movement for social justice, for black lives, mattering, for civil rights and economic opportunity in this country in a very

special way. We're at the beginning of the beginning of of of a movement, and it is my my hope and it's my prayer that this moment of injustice has spurred a movement that will last until the work of the movement is done because of the way in which this movement affected people. The George Ford incident captured the imagination because of the outrage of people not only here in the United States from all walks of life and backgrounds,

but also from people all over the world. Having said that the test is going to be whether commitments and whether this movement, this protest movement, is going to turn into meaningful action. One thing that is so critical is the passage of the George Ford Justice and Policing Act, which right now is the subject subject of sensitive negotiations.

But those negotiations are simply because there's were councilors in the United States Senate by some to pass a meaningful, substantial police reimagination and reform bill, which is what the George Floyd Bill is. Mark, are you confident the George Floyd Justice and Policing Act will be passed by Congress. I'm I'm going to remain optimistic, but I'm realistic. I understand the nature of the opposition. And then what is

the nature of the opposition. You have certain elements on the Republican side, certain elements who do not want to look at the bill on its merit, who simply want to see it as just another battle in the partisan wars that were involved in would suggest, well, we can't

give Joe Biden the Democrats of victory. Notwithstanding the fact that the George Floyd Bill and it's enumerated provisions, whether it's banning show calls, whether it's giving people access to the courts in a meaningful way by dialing back qualified immunity, whether it's creating a stronger if you will excess, if you supporce criminal statute, and and I could continue to talk about provisions. Those provisions are supported by the American people.

Poll after poll demonstrates that. And notwithstanding that this bill, now passed by the Congress of the United States, the House of Representatives twice, this bill, now with the full support of the President and the Vice President, is still subject to difficult negotiations because of this antiquated old school rule called the Senate filibuster. Are you disappointed in them

for not taking a firmer stance. There's a lot of I feel like doctrines put out a lot of words said, But do you feel like the corporate community has really stood up uh and really come out like they should have? UM After George Floyd. So the corporate community is not a monolith. It's not a unified group. Uh. There are many who UH spoke out forcefully, who have made meaningful and substantial commitments. There are some which put out perfunctory statements,

and there's some that have done nothing. I believe that those that have, and I would point to, uh the actions of the Business Roundtable as being you know, fairly significant to the extent that these commitments are lived up to and follow through on. It's gonna take three to five years to make those kinds of determinations. But let's look at the corporate community and not look at it as a monolitht because I don't think it is a monolist and I think there's a great deal of conviction

and sincerity among many. But the question is always whether it's a moment of response, whether it's a complete shift. I can tell you that many of the discussions I've had even in this week have been about how to increase pipelines and talent coming in from the black community, how to create a corporate atmosphere which is fairer and

more equitable and free of racism. Those discussions, and I sense in many of those discussions, a degree of since therety a degree of commitment, but the pressure, the movement in the community, uh, the conversation that has taken place, the attention of people like you and the media has to continue. Don't let this die, don't let this go away.

That was Mark Morial, the president of the National Urban League and Bloomberg's deputy New York Bureau Chief Shartilla Brantley, incredible with the last year has brought us and not even thinking about the pandemic, Carolin, look hard to believe it's been a year, no exactly. And what's interesting and I'm hearing this over and over and this certainly came

out in our conversation. It's all about we have to now stop only talking about it, but actually doing something about need to see the data from these organizations, from these businesses, show us that you're making a difference. Exactly.

Let's see the change all right still ahead on Bloomberg Business Week, businesses are rethinking the way they protect themselves from unforeseen disasters, and the insurance industry taking notice and inside look at one of the biggest claims handlers in the world and the hundreds of billions of dollars at stake.

This is Bloomberg Broadcasting from the financial capital of the world, Bloomberg eleven in Rio in New York to Washington, d C. Bloomberg to Boston, Bloomberg one oh six one does San Francisco, Bloomberg nine sixty to the country Sirius XM Chado one nine team and around the globe the Bloomberg Business app and Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This is Bloomberg Business Week. Well, the health pandemic was one of those unforeseen events that

impacted us in ways we couldn't have imagined him. We all know that, and yet there we were, the global economy shut down and businesses tapping their insurers as a result. Lloyd's of London is the largest market for insurance and reinsurance, with a bulk of their business in the insuring of events. Hank Watkins is president of the America's Region of Lloyd's of London and joined us to talk about the impact.

You know, it's certainly been a tragedy globally in in many countries were far from seeing a conclusion to this, this pandemic. But you know, for the insurance industry, which is I think the focus of the conversation today. We've gotten through it pretty well. We were initially looking at at well over a hundred billion dollars in claims globally,

as well as a similar diminution of asset values. The asset values were not hit as hard, but but there still will when this is all said and done, be more than a hundred billion dollars in claims paid by

the global insurance and reinsurance industry. You think of the events that were canceled or postponed, Wimbledon, the Olympics, all around the world, just as major events there so, but but you know, not to say there was a positive outcome of this, but it forced our industry, which has historically been fairly slow to digitize, to use the benefit of electronic UH distribution, to really get on board with that across the industry flowing jump. No, no, no, forgive me.

But you know what is digitization in your industry? Like, we get it when it comes to retail, right, everybody going on platforms and and shopping. I get that. So what is exactly digitization or the digital component that you guys had to ramp up as a result of the pandemic. Well, you look at it from the banking perspective. You know, it's clearly it's it's converting um data into numerical figures that you can more readily use across an entire platform.

In the insurance industry, there is a certain element, the insured text side that has done a great job out over the past several years, mostly in the personalized and small commercial space, but at a large more complex risk space which Lloyd's plays in. We still, prior to the pandemic did a lot of our business face to face. There was a fair amount of paper involved between submissions and policies and all that. But as of April, we and a lot of our competitors pivoted very quickly towards

electronic transactions. You know, everything was done via via email, policies issued issue digitally, etcetera. So we we've come a long way, but we might have gotten there absent a pandemic in five years. But again, like I said, one of the outcomes that has been through the industry and Lloyds is that we've moved a lot more quickly. You mentioned that when all of a sudden done, it will

be about a hundred billion dollars in claims paid out. Um. You talked about the US Open, something that we typically go to, and of course that was shut down. It's a huge event, Wimbledon, so many different sporting events. What was the biggest claim component if there's a pie in terms of claims being paid out, was it sports and events? What was it the biggest component that was ultimately paid

out because of the pandemic? Carol, I'll speak from from Lloyd's perspective only, since we do ensure a lot of events globally. Event cancelation was probably globally of our The impact on us, oh absolutely yes. Well has it then changed as hanked? As it change your thinking in terms of policies going forward? I mean, who would have thunk right a pandemic? It's like one of those black Swan events, it feels like. But does it change you're thinking about

policy coverage or clients? Are they changing their thinking about what kind of insurance I have? God forbid we get another pandemic? There were there were actually UH products available UM for several years, So I mean Lloyd's issued a paper about ten years ago UH exploring the risk of a major pandemic, and it was issued and read by

some people. I suppose. But then ultimately there were some policies put out there in the marketplace by a few major firms, and and there was no take up because people, especially you know, post financial crisis, people are struggling to get back in their feet. Businesses aren't thinking about every possible systemic issue out there. They need to cover what

it takes to to run their business. So that's the way human nature is, though, right We've we spend money on ensuring our cell phones, yet we don't necessarily take care of our lives or other things as we might. So, Hank, you mentioned that you guys, you ensure a lot of events. What's your expectation for the next year or so, because the world is definitely reopening. But I am curious if a lot of events or those who put on the

events are either upping their insurance coverage. I'm just curious what was the impact as a result of the pandemic, Carol. The impact has been buying a bridge significant limits of liability for a major event that could be impacted by another way or by a new pandemic, for example, is very difficult. But we have found a number of new insurance providers coming on scene. They don't have any legacy losses.

They didn't pay for the losses last year, so they have an opportunity now with new capital to go out there. We underwrite the exposure and potentially provide solutions to some of these major event organizers around the world. That's Hank Watkins. He is president of the America's Region of Lloyd's of London.

You know, a really insightful conversation in an area of the business world we sometimes overlook, kind of just take for granted, tim but it's a critical piece of the financial support for so many and really of our financial industry. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Up next, movie theater operators are stepping up efforts to draw people back into their buildings as the pandemic eases here in the US, and recent box office returns in Asia are providing reasons

for optimism. Yep, we're watching Asia for cues of what happens in the rest of the world. I'm actually a Rich Galfon on why the pandemic can't crush people's love of the silver screen experience. This is Woomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick takes Tim Stinovik from Bloomberg Radio. The ninth installment of the widely popular, successful Fast and Furious movie franchise, It

is rolling out. You might recall last week at the Bloomberg Live virtual event the Bloomberg Business Week, we caught up with Jason Lynn. He Tim is the director behind it all. Fast nine. F nine is really the first film of the final chapter, so it was actually it's actually been very liberating. It's a very different process. So ten is not necessarily the last one. It sounds like it most definitely is not the last one. I would

say the last chapter. I think, you know, we have so many characters that my problem is actually real estate, you know, and so to know that, hey, you know, we have F nine, but I also now have real estate for two more movies. To be able to tell this last chapter hasn't like really again, it's very kind of for me. It's a very fresh way of of, you know, really kind of crafting what we're gonna do. It opened internationally, with most of the ticket sales happening

in the biggest movie market in the world, China. Richard Gelfond is CEO of the movie theater company Imax, and had more on the reopening of the big screen. You know, it's it's been a long cold winter, as you guys are quite aware, and it's nice to have the good old fashioned Hollywood blockbuster back. And I think F nine really opened up like a Hollywood blockbuster. It did hundred sixty five million dollars globally, hundred thirty five million dollars

in China. IMAX's market share was very healthy. It's our biggest opening um and you know since before the pandemic started, so feeling a lot better than it was a few weeks ago. Carol, Well, that's a big change. Yeah, how I mean, how were you feeling a few weeks ago? And what changed that? Was it? This opening weekend? Especially globally, you know, probably be more us than I should be.

This has been one of the most frustrating periods of the pandemic for me, and that's because I think the world is really ready to go back to the movies, and I think there are a lot of movies that are ready to go, but I think not every territory in the world is ready at the same time and the same pace, and the traditional distribution model would say, you open up globally at one time all over the world, but you know, guess what, this just isn't the time

without works, so that this time is called for different kinds of models. And as a result, um, the studios who mostly wire located in Hollywood, we're looking out their windows and saying, the pandemic is really not doing well here, ignoring the fact that you know, they've been blockbusters in Japan and China and Korea and Taiwan for months. So I think kind of we've been ready in a lot

of places, but the movies just haven't been there. And one of the things that was really unique about the release of F nine was it was released in China about five weeks before it's being released in the rest of the world, which is a different model. And I think most of the studios have played it really conservative and said we're not opening anywhere until we could open everywhere. Um. But fortunately Universal, you know, took the risk in doing this and it opens in the US in late June.

But it really worked. And I think you need to demonstrate that people want to go back to the movies, and you need the kind of numbers that we had in order to get people a studio is comfortable opening in their movies, So I think this was a pretty big deal. Yeah. Well, what's interesting is I remember you saying to when you and I talked at that Bloomberg

Live event. I think it was back in April. You know how you guys went into COVID earlier because of China and then came out of it earlier too because of China, and how China in many ways has been a guiding light about kind of where we're going and how the world is reopening. Not apples to apples, I understand that, but it has helped us give us a little bit of kind of the way forward in terms of how the world maybe reopens. Yeah, I think that's

definitely the case. I think the big distinguished thing thing between China and other places though, is China didn't vaccinate at the level that other places did and mostly achieved it's kind of feeling of safety and low results through social contact tracing and other means that we're not used here in the West. So in a way, as good as China has been, um places like North America could

be even better once it really opens up. Because I imagine you guys noticed that the Nick Game the other night, there were fifteen thousand people, um, you know, having a great time. And I really feel that it's going to be like the Roaring twenties and people but once they get out of the house and you know, they can go back to what their lives were like before. I think that's going to happen very quickly. And I think you know it. As I said, it's happening in Asia,

and there's no reason I think that that won't happen here. Well, I'm wondering about that specifically here in the US, because we have seen companies like Disney and Warner Media as it has is still called release theatrical releases direct to streaming direct consumer And I'm wondering if you think that consumers have been conditioned to enjoy this stuff at home rather than in a theater, and that might not provide the incentive for them to get back to what they

were doing before the pandemic, because now they've been able to do it from their couch and not get a babysitter. Yeah. I mean, that's a narrative that I think a lot of the streaming services are promoting. But I don't really think it's going to play out that way. I mean, people are locked in their living rooms, were locked in their kitchens. So when you're locked in your living room, you watch movies on your television set. When you locked in your kitchen, you don't go to restaurants. You eat

in your kitchen when you're allowed to go out. I mean you look at almost every behavior. Look at what's gone on with the restaurants in New York and London and Los Angeles. I mean people were in condition the only bringing in food. They were limited by the circumstances to doing that. And you even look at um um one of the recent films, got Zilla Versus Kang that

was released simultaneously by Warner Media um in imax. We sold out about a thousand shows around the United States when people could get it for free if they were subscribers on their TV sets. So I just don't think that's the way it is. I mean, people go to the movies partly for escapism, partly for social reasons, partly for social activity, probably to get away from their kids, probably to get away from their parents. You know, everyone

has a different reason. But I don't think they're gonna say, oh, i'd much rather watch this in my living room with my family, which is what I've been doing for the last fifteen months. It was an interim solution designed for pandemic. And I don't blame anybody. I mean, if you're Disney, your warner, you know, the movie theaters are closed, You've got this content you paid for, You've got to do

something with it. And by the way, streaming happens to be something that the stock market likes an awful lot. So you say, oh, I'll stream, but they know that that's that's made for a time and a place. And again, I don't want to make too much of it. But if you look at the recent results and the and the projections from the streaming services during the last quarter, as the pandemic has started to fade, you know, the numbers for streaming of you know, not kept pace with

where they were in the pandemic. And again that's logical. And people are still going to stream certain things, but for big blockbuster movies like IMAX does no one's going to look forward to spending Saturday night on the couch with my parents rich To be fair, just like you're saying, the narrative of the streaming guys, they're kind of talking their book to some extent, I think it's safe to say that you're talking your book about people coming back. But I mean, what do you then make of all

the streaming deals that are happening right now. Where you've worked in mergers and acquisitions, you're an investment, but you understand this world. Do you think this is just a cycle that runs out of steam or do you think there's real momentum Because there's some things that changes, but as a result of the pandemic that will stay with us. And I think there's a lot that would say that streaming is part of that. I think streaming is part of it, but I think in a different way than

it was during the pandemic. I think for niche movies and movies that you know, cost less in a budget and have to find a specific audience, releasing them direct to streaming will make sense because the marketing costs are extremely high to do that reaching your consumer and a niche market is difficult to find. And I think those

things will continue to stream. Also, almost every studio has come up now with a forty five day window where they'll they'll stream forty five days after opening and I think, if anything, that's going to make the content more valuable and the theatrical run more valuable to the studio. Because remember, how did HBO get started? How did um, um, how did Netflix get started? They streamed Hollywood movies and those movies got a lot of exposure, got a brand, got

good word of mouth. I've got brand recognition, built sequels, and then people paid a lot to go stream them. Um. You know. As I'll ask you a question, nay, five stream movies from Netflix last year? Um you know. And by the way, it is a trick question because I was just in l A and I asked ten people that and nobody can name five stream movies during And that's streaming. When I was growing up, there were TV movies and then there were real movies. I think now

there's gonna be real movies and streaming movies. That's I'm x CEO Rich Galfon. And to be fair, Tim, you know,

he's kind of talking his book a little bit. He's all about the big screen and big blockbuster movies, but he does say that there's going to be movies that you're gonna want to see on the big screen, and then there stuff you'll be like, Okay, I can watch that at home, right, Look, you can't exactly replicate the IMAX experience at home, at least, you know, most people don't have an IMAX screen at their house now, I don't yet. Uh, And I kind of like the popcorn

in the theater too. That raps up the first hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Carol Masse and I'm Tim Stanavak. Ahead in our next hour, a trio of executives on the frontiers of their respective industries. App Harvest CEO Jonathan Webb on artificial intelligence and Agriculture Bonnie CEO Peter McGinnis on his company's latest innovations. And Ballet CEO Bobby Lee on the promise

of bitcoin. I see what he did there. It's a little bit of innovation, right, people kind of disrupting the world. Coming up next, though, if you've been searching for the fountain of youth, who is not doing that? Everybody is? Well? Silicon Valley may have founded and it might be in your dog Man's best friend. Why canine life extension research could lead to breakthroughs for the rest of us? I'm hoping my scout's going to help me out here. All

this is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business finance and tech news As it happened, Sloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Hi, I'm Carol

Masser and I'm Tim Stinovic. Plenty ahead in our second hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week, including Tim Dogs in the Fountain of Youth, Crypto also from a veteran and another yogurt I p O Chobani anyone, and Farming with Ai with the founder and CEO of app Harvest. Looking forward to all of that. First up, though, this our story we both loved. We were talking about

it throughout the day. We thought it was about one thing initially, and once we started reading through it realized it was about something else. Cut to the chase him, It's about man's best friend and how our pups may help us stay forever young. By way of Silicon Valley. We got the details from Bloomberg Business Week feature writer and New York Times bestselling author Ashley Vance, who's also the host of Hello World and author of Elon Musk, Tesla, SpaceX,

and The Quest for a Fantastic Feature. He was joined by Bloomberg Business Week editor Joel Weber so UM in Silicon Valley UM life extending technologies are of great interests, and there's been a lot of of interest in what can be done on a cellular level to basically eke out a few more dozen years. The problem is, like testing on humans is actually really difficult because it takes

a long time to get there. UM. And that kind of brings us to this story that actually got which was, you know, there's a buddy in some of our lives that we could maybe do some testing on. So so, Ashley, what did you what did you find? As UM as you dug into this a little bit, Yeah, well, so there's this company called Loyal and they're they're based in

San Francisco, And you've got it exactly right. You know, there's there's at least five or six or seven promising compounds that are out there, things that the doctors and scientists have known about for years that we see seems to extend life and mice and to get rid of inflammation and things like that. But nobody's been willing to fund a human trial because you've basically got to do

it for forty for fifty years. And so this company, Loyal is now going to test these compounds on dogs, and you know, they think they can run these studies in two, three, four years and see if it works and and then you know, the goal is is if this seems like I's working on dogs, maybe people will be more willing to do some of these tests on humans are just to go ahead and green like the drugs. So how likely is this? Because as I kidded in the top, you know, we've been on this pursuit of

the Fountain of youth forever. So how likely is there something out there that you know helps out my dog Scout? I'd love to have her forever, but also I'd like

to live a little bit longer. Well, it's funny because when I went into this, I was skeptical, and you would imagine, but um, you know, I interviewed a member of scientists and and uh, there are these these drugs like metaphor mean and Rappa mic in um, which are used in humans for different things like helping with organ transplants and other conditions that people are are reasonably certain

will have positive effects on dogs and humans. It's just people have been reluctant to try this stuff, and so, um, you know, in my interviews, they're talking about for large breed dogs who live on average about seven years, they think they could live not only kind of two years longer, but have you know, much better lifestyle in their latter years, and so you know, it's not living forever or anything like that. It's kind of like a quality of life

improvement that people are pretty sure we will see. So if that ends up up happening, and if it works for dogs to help us connected to humans and to what extent, perhaps humans could live just a few years longer and what those years would be like? Yeah, I mean, so the thesis of this company is that, um, the FDA has been reluctant to to even think about drugs that are as general. For something as general as aging, you know, you have to have a medicine that's targeting

a specific illness. But if this worked in the dogs, then this this could pave UM, this could pave the way for maybe easing some of these restrictions. And the scientists I talked to you, they don't recommend it for everyone, but they're already taking these compounds and and they're curing their their sore shoulder that you know, you're in your fifties and you've got this sore shoulder for months. And this one guy I talked to it went away in

about a week after after taking one of these drugs. So, um, so you know, I mean, you know, I think if you, if you make this more mainstream and acceptable by through dogs, it really could change our perspective on this field. It's also a little bit of the kind of a perfect cell, you know, like six months extra and something's life for I mean even two your two years more meaningful with maybe a dog, but six months it's like who knew,

who knew if it worked out? Uh so legit question though, Um, there's a lot of money slashing around in this space, and so talk to us about what the funding is like, not only for for this company the startup, but in the rest of the space. Yeah, I mean, you know, a lot of this stuff has seemed kind of fringe in the past, and so you never know, um, what

to take seriously and whatnot. I mean, I think in this case, the company is backed by the Longevity Fund is one of its investors, and they're kind of the the top investor in this whole field. They've they've done a bunch of uh different startups in this area. But you know, I think the you can imagine that people would pay almost anything to to have their dogs live

a bit longer. And and so the business case on this one seems seems clear to me that if if you really could give this to work, um, you know, the founders of loyal so they want to try to keep the price low um low enough that everyone can use this, but I imagine it will start out quite high. That's Bloomberg's actually vans in business. We got to r Droel Webber. I thought we spent a lot of money Carol on pets before, but this is actually taking it up a notch. I think it's clear that people will

pay anything to live longer. Just look at my men some cabinet and all my like Cream's annointments. So that is so true. Listen, I love it though research dogs the life cycle, like you kind of get it and why this might make a difference for all of us going forward. I'm ready to live a little bit longer, so long as I'm healthy. And who doesn't want their dog to live longer? I want my dog to live forever. All right, you're listening to Bloomberg Business Week coming up.

The cryptocurrency market, especially Bitcoin, has been defined by volatility and big swings throughout its short history, but our next guest says it's with good reason and that it won't stay that way forever. The CEO of the multi currency non electronic crypto wallet Ballet, Bobby Lee, is our next guest. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Spinovik from Bloomberg Radio.

So the wild booling cryptocurrencies, Yeah, it continues, and we recently caught up with Bobby Lee. Tim. He's an entrepreneur in the crypto space, recently founded Ballet, where he's CEO as well. Ballet is a multi currency, non electronic crypto wallet. Bobby is also the author of the Promise of Bitcoin, The Future of Money and how it can work for

you Having a crypto walle It is important. You don't want to lose do you want to lose it all right, Well, he joined us from what you might say was an appropriate place considering the volatility and kind of gambling feel of the crypto market thus far. He joined us from Las Vegas. The way I explained is bitcoin is really a global reserve asset class. It started out as a very small sort of digital currency invented by a social commoto, sort of very very nerdy, kind of punk kind of creation.

But what we've come to see over the last twelve years is that coom really has a role in society in the sense that it truly is an independent into asset class that has a strict limit on the issuance. So people may know biquin has opened the camp of twenty one million units, and it was these two factors, the strict limit of twenty one million and also its

own sort of independence, you decentralized nature. It's really a beast that cannot be controlled by by the government of the world, so it doesn't sec come itself to the inflation that we see with the US dollar and other currencies that's controlled by central pain printing. So now you know the coin has already reached one trillion dollars in total value. It's come back down a bit in the reasonable back, but I think it didn't go much much

higher than that. You know, we are still, though, Bobby, trying to figure out is it a currency, is it a commodity? Is it a collectible? I mean we're still having these conversations. You do know, to that the U. S. Treasury, the Federal Reserve are you know, increasing their curiosity and wanting to know more about it and trying to figure out what needs to be there in terms of oversight. Could that drastically change the dynamic of cryptocurrency as we

see it today. Well, so the number one miss no more is people misunderstand currency has to be something that you can spend with, you know what, to be valuable. I take a more traditional of your currencies, really money and money even if it's sitting in my pocket, even if it's sitting in my bank account, it's useful to me even if it's not spent. So this is the the important piece the currency. Like bitcoin, it doesn't have

to be useful only for spending. It can be useful as an investment, as a head against installation, as a store of value, and in that sense, I think the bigpoint will be very successful. And with regards to regulation, yes, they are very concerned about it because of the dig inner nature of its so called awesomeness, where it's gonna be sent across the wire and contaneously all around the world. So it really is different from the traditional money in

that sense. So that's why you have regulatory agencies all of the world trying to stand down on bitcoin. But fundamentally bitcoin as as its own sort of digital currency, it hasn't changed even even with the basically no one can force to change it. Well, the regulatory and you can do is force people's behavior to change it rather than the bitcoin itself. Bobby, what do you do. I work with a lot of smart people. I run into a lot of smart people who are still like I

don't quite understand cryptocurrency. I don't understand it other than it's maybe you know a place, a risky asset that you can just make some money or lose a lot of money as well. What do you say to them that ultimately will be You say, it's going to transform the global economy. How so, so a lot of smart people in the world, a lot of successful investors. However, even today, the vast majority of them don't understand it, don't get bitcoin. And this is the reason why I

wrote the book. Give an example, ten years ago, when I first gone in touch with bitcoin. This is my university being involved. I was decently smart person to have a college degree computer science and all that, but I was an enormous, very newbie, if you will, in terms of understanding bitcoin that fundamentals philosophy, the economics, and also the technology. So today bitcoin is already told and half

years old. There's still a lot of smart people in the world, educated people who are very successful that when they see bitquin for the first time, to them, it's strange and it's just not It doesn't it doesn't rock, It doesn't really like in terms of what makes this so special. So that's fine, It's just that bitcoin is very, very complicated. Uh. You know, it took me a decade to really understand it to the level that I have so far, and I expect myself to really even learn

more about it in the coming next decade. Uh. In terms of how is going to change the world. What's amazing is that now, for the first time in the world, we have a unique asset class that is digital in nature that people can stand around anywhere in the world, from person to person without any third party's intervention, without any third party oversight. Now, from the regular perspective, and something has no oversight and no intermention ability, they worry naturally.

So they worried because they used to control things. They're used to controlling and seeing all the bank wire transfers, they're used to controlling which among the people can withdraw from their accounts. They're used to having a limit and all that stuff, including trading hours or stock markets. They're used to all that kind of control. But bitcoin is so new and radically different, there's no way to control it.

And that's how it was invented. It was invented to be this wild sort of animal that is not domesticated. So that's why it's so hard to the people. So how does it become a bigger part of the mainstream financial global economy if it's expected to be this wild animal, which is fine, but you've got to know that going in. But how that sounds to me a bit problematic to fitting into kind of a stable system, especially if people

are counting all yeah, absolutely, you're right. First of all, I'm not saying, Nor are people saying that everyone has to use me. Remember this not enforced sort of thing, in the sense that we are not forcing the world to is big point is to get involved in big poin what it is is big point is a choice. So prior to two thousand nine, prior to the invention

of bigcoin, people have no choice. If you want to send money to someone abroad, you have to go through the banking system, which is a swift international wire transfer, and there's all sorts of limits, all sorts of delays, all sorts of just critical stuff that's very complicated. With the surf wire address. For now, do you have no choice? Whereas today do you have a choice. People who want to get involved with different they can choose to send

the money in bigcoin. They can also choose to receive the money in bigcoins. And don't forget spending money. Traditionally we talk about the world is four dimensional, right when we talk about sending money, we think of it in the three dimensions and in the physicality sending from one they need to ad medicine in another country. But the fourth dominion, which is dimension with client, is very very important.

But that's why we save money. The reason we have money in a bank account is because we chose to not spend it all on the team learned it. That's the cumination of what money north the individual Bankts County. That's Bobby Lee, the CEO of crypto wallet firm Ballet. We heard Ray Dalio say earlier this week, Carol that he prefers bitcoin over bonds, and there is the growing consensus from investment heavyweights that the market could be a

good bet over time. Yeah, time will tell obviously. All right. Still to come on Bloomberg Business Week, Yogurt and produce, we explore two very different corners of the food market. We'll hear from app Harvest CEO and founder Jonathan Webb on the latest developments in ag tech. Here's a hint they're using AI and up. Next, Rabani CEO Peter McGinnis gives us a sneak peek into his company's plans for growth and commitment to its workers. They're thinking beyond yogurt, Carol, Yeah, absolutely.

All I know is I'm thinking about food. I'm hungry. This is Bloomberg broadcasting from the financial capital of the world, Bloomberg Eleve in Frio in New York to Washington, d C. Bloomberg to Boston, Bloomberg one oh six one to San Francisco, Bloomberg nine sixty to the country Sirius xm chedel one nine team, and around the globe the Bloomberg Business app and Bloomberg Radio dot com. This is Bloomberg Business Week,

all right, Jovanni. You know it for it's Greek yogurt and for reports of the possible I p O. Later on this year, at least according to Bloomberg sources, Jovanni posted one point five billion dollars in revenues and recently announced that it became the first in the US dairy industry to be certified with the Fair Trade Seal of Approval, noting how the company has been working with US farms

and cooperatives to improve working conditions. And Tim, you cut up with Chabanni President and CEO Peter mcguinnis you talked about operating during the pandemic and also on new product innovations. Check it out. The pandemic has been tough for everybody in all businesses, but I'm proud of how we performed. UM. We set out very early, Tim, very very early on UM to take care of our employees, keep them safe

and supported. UH. Safe was the first thing. And supported really was parallel and concurrent, and supported was childcare subsidies and special bonuses UH and time off to get vaccinated. And it really created a healthy, happy, productive workforce. And so we didn't close a single day. We operated twenty four hours a day, seven days a week throughout the entire pandemic because the demand was there. So the plants, the factories ran really well, long and hard and UH

and it was an investment. Wasn't an expense to take care of her employees like that because they're healthier and happier, more productive and wanted to come to work. It's really remarkable to hear because over the last year we've heard some just some devastating stories from food processing plants throughout the United States where coronavirus outbreaks took the lives of

so many employees. But you put measures in place early at the company, and as a result, there were no coronavirus outbreaks in your plant here in New York and South Edmonston, and UH, neither in the one in Twin Falls, Idaho as well. Correct. Correct, there was community spread, right, but there was no plant outbreak or spread and and that was critical. And we jumped on this in mid March, tim when it was unpopular to be honest, I mean,

let's have a frank conversation here. Um. It was considered a downstate issue if you go way back a year ago March, and there was no cases upstate New York. There were no cases in Idaho. And we jumped on masks when it was still confusing. Our mask good, bad and different. Remember all that confusion, um, And we mandated masks, and we were able to get equipment, ton of ppe equipment and we cleaned every every two hours in the factories because remember back then they thought it was really

spread uble on surfaces. And we're able to get temperature equipment when you couldn't find it. And this is all done second week of March. And it was interesting because um, was it wildly popular initially? No. But our job as a company, your primary job, whether I'm president or CEO or the executive leadership team or as a company is to keep your employees safe and also keep the company operate. Well,

let's talk about even that there were surge demand. Well, want to talk about that surgeon demand because you mentioned that you continued operating because the demand was there. Even thinking back to last March, last April, when so many companies were struggling with supply chain issues, UM, how did

you How were you able to keep things going? Again, Very proud of the team or sourcing team leaned in on preordering milk cultures, fruit cups, foils all up and down the supply chain UM and we have great partnerships UM throughout our supply chain, and we were able to secure and procure what we needed UM and so we had no interruption on the supply chain side of things.

So in terms of the plants running seven and us having enough raw material, we powered through it and even powered through the height of the pantry loading, which was third week of March, you know, year ago March and fourth week of March, and so proud of that. Not only did we do that, him we launched three new categories.

We launched oat milk, creamers and and cough R T D coffee in the pandemic, so three new platforms, and we launched fifty new line extensions throughout all of this, so we were able to innovate on top of just operating the base business effectively. How are those platforms doing those the how is the oat milk doing, how are the new products doing. It's it's great. I mean within a year we became number to oat Milk and US food um close to it, you know, over twenty share,

which is just phenomenal. We're really happy, and that's really the strength of the brand. It's branded Chobanni. Chobani stands for trust and quality, and so we have a master brand, not a house of brands. A lot of CpG companies have all these sub brands. We're Tavanni, so it's Vanni Great Urban oat milk, coffee creamer. That's Jobanni President and CEO Peter McGuinness. Carol does seem like an I p O is only a matter of time for the company.

We did see toatly go public. That one a long time in the making, but Shobanni has had many different ownership structures in recent years and has come back from some some pretty tough times. Yeah, it's another thing we often say this about, you know, a good Harvard Business School case study, but it really has had its ups and down. So it'll be interesting to watch the trajectory

going forward. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week Coming up, we round out our broadcast with Jonathan Webb from app Harvest, the CEO of discussing the company's first quarterly earnings reports since going public and its plans to make robotics a stable of indoor farming. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes

Tim Stinovic Bloomberg Radio. Bloomberg recently reported that Hedge Funds added more shares of app Harvest than any other investment in the consumer stable sector during the first quarter. Well, if you're not familiar with the company, app Harvest is the ag tech company that recently reported its first quarter as a publicly traded company after going public with a spack in February. First quarter net sales matched guidance as

the company reiterated its revenue outlook for the year. They are looking to upend agriculture and we've been talking with the company and at c suite throughout the pandemic and talked with the app Harvest CEO and founder Jonathan Webb this week for an update on the certified B Corp business that is working to change the way we farm and feed the world. Couldn't be more proud of our team here in Kentucky where our first facility is two

point eight Williams square feet. Uh. We built that facility on time, on budget and in the middle of in the middle of a global pandemic, and we hired five people to stand up our first operation. UH and just really proud of our team and our our first quarter is a public company. UH, it was it was about, you know, letting investors know that that we're here to deliver on our promises and uh, and we're showing that we're hitting the targets that we're putting out in front

of in front of investors. So tell us about the business and what you're seeing in terms of the kind of growth that's out there, and uh, you know what you are doing to meet all the demand that's out there. Yeah. So we're at at harvest. We're building some of the world's largest controlled environment agriculture facilities. UH, and we're focused on on fruit and vegetable production. First crops were growing or tomatoes by Q four. Next year two will be

growing berries, leafy greens UH and vine crops. But the thesis is we we have to bring outdoor open field production into controlled environments. And and we're targeting bringing a lot of the production that's been pushed down to Mexico, bringing that production back to the US, so using less water, getting thirty times yield per acre, and and and getting the harsh chemical pesticides out on on the demand side, and we really cannot build and grow fast enough to

meet that demand. The grocers know it, Uh, the consumers are demanding it. And and we're we're really proud to be at some of the largest retail outlets just in our first few months of growing where you can find us a Kroger, we're now Windy's uh and and publics and many of the top twenty five grocers are are taking ore, are taking our products. You guys really play into this whole concept of kind of you know, locally farming and then serving the community. That's a big part

of what you're doing. Yeah, we're one of four public benefit corporations that's a be corp UM and what that means is we have high environmental social government standards and uh, you know, part of what we're doing is using technology to grow fruits and vegetables. Uh that that use far less resources. But the way we're doing it and who we're doing it with is something I'm incredible proud of.

Every every employeed app Harvest makes a living wage. Every employeed app Harvest has full health care and benefits for their family. Uh. And and you know, if we want to come out of COVID and say, you know, essential workers are important, well, then every person in food and agriculture should should make a living wage and and and get full benefits. Also, every employeed app Harvest has ownership

in the company. Uh. And you know, I was told that this was a pretty radical idea and food and agriculture and uh, it's the r o I and that investment has been has been what's radical and the the the We've had nearly ten thousand people apply to work at our company in the middle of COVID. Uh and when you see the labor shortages around the country where the polar opposite, we we we can't get you know, we can't go through the applications fast enough. People want

to work here. And part of that is showing yes, we spend a little money on on investing in our employees, but be treating our employees with dignity and respect has been an incredible r o I on on production and productivity here inside the company. So tell me, you say you you provide a living wage. So what are your workers? I guess on average, I don't know what that always means on average? But what are they making? Yeah? So we we have a really wide range of skill sets

here at the company. So we have engineers and computer scientists working on the robotics and AI UH, and we have planned scientists all the way down to you know, our our our cleaning folks and Janet oriole staff and all the way up to crop care specialists. But you know, there's a standard living wage in the US and for US entry level, even off the street, thirteen dollars an hour full benefits. UH. Hitting production targets gets people up

to eighteen or twenty dollars an hour, you know. So we're and where we're at is really cold country where if you look at most of the coal mines in the US that's shut down, majority of those were in eastern Kentucky and West Virginia, you know. So so here we're far above the current wage that that's out and above h well, what's already out on the street around us.

So you know, we're we're trying to tell people if they come to work and show up every day, you know we'll we'll do our best to take care of them. If if they're coming to to work and take care of of what we're doing here day to day. How difficult though, is it to get to profitability? When do you expect to get to profitability? So each facility we've

islanded where um we were. We we've got a pn L for each facility, and as we ranch each each facility up about uh year and a half, two years in uh it gets to about steady state, and then each asset is about a twenty five year twenty to twenty five year life of that asset. So each facility we build, we'll be operating twenty to twenty five years. This is under a current environment where prices and agriculture and food generally are pretty suppressed because of where we're

currently at. I mean, you look at our competition in Mexico. Is this gonna last? Are we gonna? Are we gonna continue to allow food sold in the US where people in Mexico are getting paid five dollars a day and where in some cases, you you know, you can find a legal chemical pesticides UH on that product. I mean, agriculture has such a long way to go to catch

up where consumers are demanding and where regulators are pushing. Um. That that again, you can make an argument that the prices today are artificially suppressed, and we'll see those prices rise. And that's where you know, app harvest today and under current environment UH can exceed and do do very well. But as those prices rise, and what we'll do even better because we can compete under the conditions today and it it won't change for us. The other factor on top

of all of this too is climate disruption. Uh. You look at an open field farmer that has to deal with drought or wildfires or not enough water or water scarcity. Nine of a fruit and vegetable is water. Uh. And and we run completely on recycled rainwater, which ultimately keeps our costs lower. So um again, it's it's competing today

and today's playing field. But then also have building a resilient you know, resilient UH company that that can be not only competitive today, but but really stand out five ten years from now. Hey, listen, this is something I've talked about David Lee, you know, formally impossible foods, but also at your company, president of the company. You know, we've talked about lighting in the electricity costs. You guys

do hybrid lighting. I know you you you know are using the sun, You're using l E. Ed s um tell us about that component of the equation and how that is going in terms of cost and impact on the environment. Well, if you look at impact on the environment with agriculture today, you have hard chemicals that are degrading our waters. Were the un is predicted we have sixty years left of fertile top soil. I mean, you talk about a statistic that we don't talk about that's

completely jarring, is sixty years left. And I mean, so I'm sitting again in coal country and think of agriculture. We're mining nutrients out of the ground and they're not replenishing. We're in a glass facility that allows us to use sunlight first and only add micro mole light from the led that we need to add that the sun is not adding. Running completely on recycled rainwater, also being closer

to market reducing that diesel consumption. So if you're looking at a fruit and vegetable coming two thousand miles from California or Mexico to the East coast. You know, we get that down to a day drive by where we're at and and lighting is one one piece where we have energy and using the L E d S gets gets our lighting energy consumption down. But it's really and we're still working on this. We're working on them with

a lot of universe these and outside stakeholders. Is what is that life cycle analysis and agriculture there's no one you can really look to to get good answers on what what are the push points? Energy was very easy, uh, to to be able to judge on. Uh. Here's an example solar and wind versus fossil fuels. That's very binary. It's you know, one verse the other. Agriculture is incredibly complex. The US has our our food is wasted and goes

to a landfill. So not only is it the inputs, uh, the energy you consume, there's the food waste because of how far we're trucking the food itself. Um that that again there there's and we're working on this with the universities to try to come up with an overall life cycle analysis. But there's nowhere to look U s d A. No one has done a really good job on saying, you're the environmental benefits of controlled environment agg are the

drawbacks to open field here that played opportunities to get better? Uh, there's no world one organization to look to, whether that's the U N or the U s d A or any other non governmental organization. What's incredible to see is just in a short period of years, Carol, the decline in the number of people here in the US who are actually farming. I know it and changed. It is

totally changing. It's a really tough business. I think the challenge moving forward, I mean this is easy to say, is that how do we feed the world in an efficient way, right, make it more productive, but also protect the climate. Uh. And so this is one of those companies that's playing into it. That was of course a harvest CEO Jonathan Webb. And that wraps up the weekend edition at Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Thanks so much for joining us. I'm Carol Masser and I'm Tim Stanovak.

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