Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - March 22nd, 2024

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This is Bloomberg business Week Inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus gloom O Business Finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio.

Hi, everyone, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business Week Weekend Podcast. Yes, we had a FED meeting this week, signaling three rate cuts likely this year. Despite the FED lifting the forecast for core inflation, stocks ralling on the news, sending the SMP to a record close about fifty two hundred for the first time, folks. You can read more about it and what the FED is up to at Bloomberg dot Com.

Tech talks outperforming right after that FED decision, and the world of technology is where we are focusing this hour, including talks about Apple and Google getting more deeply involved with one another, this time on our artificial intelligence. And you know her for her podcasts and chronicling of the individuals and companies that have dominated the tech landscape for the past thirty years. Kara Swisher on her new book It's called burn Book, a Tech love story All of.

That to coll and we begin with the doubling down on a relationship that's already existed for years between two very well known giants in the tech space. We are talking about Apple and Alphabet.

The story by Bloomberg's chief technology reporter Mark German caught the attention of investors, sending both stocks hire. Earlier this week, Mark joined us along with bloomberg new Senior executive editor for Global Technology, Tom Giles, giving us all the details Apple and.

Google are and talks for Apple to license Gemini, that's Google's top generator of AI, large language model for integration into the iPhone and iOS eighteen and the iPad later this year. Apple has its own homegrown AI, including some Jenai that will be based into the device. Those will be models that run on the phone themselves, but with

Hey, Mark, does it also tell us a story? Does it tell you a story about where Apple is when it comes to its progress on AI right now or lack there? Yeah, and that's the real question.

It tells us that Apple has not made as much progress as it would need to on the generative AI and cloud based generator of AI front specifically. I do think they have made a lot of progress on on device AI in day to day usability, but either it has not made progress or it doesn't feel like it needs to make progress on cloud based GENETAI specifically based on short prompts. I would imagine it does come down to the fact that they need They know they need

Yeah, I do feel like the pressure is on all of the big tech names to kind of really move forward when it comes to AI. Tom Giles come on in on this, because I feel like when you hear Apple and Google get together on anything, I feel like exponentially the impact And I think about regulators just being like, wait, what are you two doing now again.

As we saw this story coming together, the wheels in my head started turning. Immediately. My thinking is, DOJ and FTC are going to look at this this agreement should it come together with great interest? As we all know, DJ is already looking into that relationship between Apple and Google that gives Apple, that gives Google added prominence on the iPhone.

When it comes to search right, when it comes.

To search right.

But so if you see something that deepens the relationship between two of the most powerful companies in the world, you're gonna want to make sure that that's not something that's gonna thwart competition or in any way hurt the consumer somehow keep competitors from getting into this space. So there's lots of questions that they have that they're going to ask and already the FTC is looking at the relationship when it comes to AI between Microsoft and open Ai.

They're gonna be why whiteboard, I'm assuming you guys had this massive white.

We're gonna want to look at the find at the details, the fine print.

So Mark, it's funny when you when you talk about Apple and Alphabet, you know they're certainly competitors to the extent that Alphabet has the Android operating system, which you know, is the biggest operating system in competition with Apple's iOS. But at the same time they are partners and Apple

I certainly remember that iPad pro announcement that was in September twenty fifteen, and Microsoft at the time, under their new CEO, sought in Nadela. At the time, their goal was to get their software and services everywhere. Apple's goal at the time was to make the iPad more of an office device, and so there was some mutual benefit there. Getting Office on the iPad would be good for both parties. In this case, getting Gemini built into the iPhone would also be.

Good for both parties.

Apple would be able to push new AI features that everyone's claiming for to its two billion users, and Gemini would be gaining many more users and a stronghold on one of the most popular devices of our lifetimes. Right, and I want one more thing.

I want to add.

Tom's point is excellent about the FTC and the doj our thinking on this is that in order to combat those concerns, Apple probably will have to have an API or some sort of short or feature for other generative AI providers, maybe open Ai, maybe Anthropic, maybe someone else to be able to integrate themselves into iOS as an alternative.

I also do wonder about Gemini Apple Google, who gets I mean, who benefits more. You just said mark Gemini into the iPhone. It's good for both parties. Did one of them need to do this more than the other? Was the pressure on Apple?

You know you move in?

Yeah, you know, I would say the easy answer is the pressure is more so on Apple. But I think there's pressure on both companies.

Right Google.

You know, Search obviously is down. Google is looking for, you know, new areas of growth and getting its you know, next big thing on the world's biggest or second biggest platform. You know, it's a big deal for them. They're already owning their own in house platform, they'll own number one, and now they could own number two on AI as well.

From the investor point of view, you have to look at the perception that there are some players that are far further ahead when it comes to generative AI. A lot of people are giving a lot of props to Sachi Nadella and Microsoft for getting in on that relationship with open Ai at an early stage, making a big investment, and being seen as leaders. There's a lot of criticism about Google, on the other hand, as being something of a lagorty. They should have been way ahead of the

You really would like to see see Apple.

Being in that conversation. It's not in those conversations. It's not being mentioned in the same breath Microsoft, Open AI, and even Google.

It does feel like today's news has kind of changed that, right, like all of a sudden the conversation maybe, all right, I don't know that Apple all of a sudden, we're looking at differently a little bit.

Potential that it that it has a strong relationship with Google and it's going to capitalize on that and weave more of those open those AI features into the iPhone, providing a huge platform and a huge validation for what Google has been doing. Both have the potential to benefit tremendously from this, And.

Tim, I think about how much we've talked about Google, right and the criticism of Gemini specifically in terms of some of the biased concerns.

Yeah, so talk a little bit about that, Mark, because it was just a couple of weeks ago that we were talking about all the challenges that Alphabet was facing in its AI ambitions and the CEO of the company had to essentially come out and say, well, you know, wait a second, this is not acceptable to us, and we're working on this to try to make it better.

Yeah, and over those familiar with some controversy on Twitter and other social media about you know, which races were portrayed in an historical context. This is my understanding. My understanding is that Google would provide the Gemini underlying model to Apple right, which apparently did not have the issue. And this particular issue that soon Darbar Chai, as you said, commented on and was at the center of the controversy was related to the end user interface of the Google chatbot.

You know, it's really interesting, Tim and I are both reading Caris Switscher's book that kind of takes you through so much in the technology world.

Now.

I know our own team has really just chronicled it so well over the last couple of decades or the last decade and a half. But I just think about, how, you know, Tom, there are companies that were so much seemingly at the forefront that all of a sudden they weren't. And I do feel like you see this jocking among especially some of the establishment, of like we got to be on this because this is what we all think is the next wave.

Well, I'm really struck by if you look at the share price of these companies. I mean, Apple rocketed ahead, became the world's most valuable company, but at stock has kind of, you know, taken a turn for the worst. By contrast, I'm fascinated by you. Look at the share price for Meta on the other hand. A couple of years ago, Meta was on the ropes. We were talking about the existential threat posed by companies like TikTok, for example.

Well, Tom, I'm curious about this idea of a landgrab or AI going on right now, because each of these big megacap companies has their own identity, right Facebook, Meta owns social networking, Apple owns the iPhone and the mobile operating system, at least at the high end. Right, you have Alphabet that owns search. You have Microsoft, which would say that it owns productivity, but it plays in a lot of different areas. And now they're all going after

Yeah, and some of them do better than others. I mean the Internet, some of them you know, built themselves on that, and others got left behind. Microsoft comes to mind, for example, when it comes to mobile telephony. You know, Apple sprinted ahead and really has owned that space. Google came in and with Android has done very very well. But if you look at dominance of the hardware and of the US market, Apple is kind of really run away with that. Microsoft went nowhere.

So Mark come back in on because I think about just the last is it week or so or two weeks or so? Apple give it up on the car after ten years and now this potential deal. It looks like with Google moving kind of all in pretty aggressively. It feels like with artificial intelligence, how are you kind of looking at Apple holistically right now on this news?

The presence of new artificial intelligence software and capabilities doesn't change the underlying idea that Apple's a hardware company that makes seventy five percent to eighty percent of their annual revenue from hardware. So even if they fix this underlying problem with the lack of artificial intelligence, or even when they do as I should say, doesn't fix the underlying notion that they don't necessarily have a next generation hardware product to make money off of. Now here's where those

What do you mean very.

Core of that?

Well, the car was an AI product right at self driving cars AI hardware, and now that AI hardware is no longer happening. So they're going to have to figure out some sort of new hardware category, whether it's based on AI, probably or not, to really move the needle revenue wise. The iPhone has completely plateaued, the iPad has been sinking, the Mac has plateaued. Some of their other

Hey, Mark, and I've got a question for you in the last few seconds. Can you talk about where and how Apple might use this for Vision Pro.

And real quick? Mark about there?

Ye know, that's yeah, yeah, sure, that's a great question. So there is some AI in the Vision Pro, but nothing like you've seen from what Meta has been able to do with their headsets integrating AI. There is a future I see where the vision pro cameras could tap into this new generative AI that they're getting for Google and their in house to unite those two things. You

All right now, I totally kind of get it, all right, We so appreciate it. Markerman, Bloomberg News Chief Technology Report and of course, Bloomberg News Senior Executive editor for Global Technology, Tom Giles joining us in studio.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm. Easter Listen on Apple, card Play and the Bright Auto with a Bloomberg Business at or watch us live on YouTube.

It is Bloomberg BusinessWeek. That's Carol Master. I'm Tim Staneveek, and you all know our next guests from the podcast on with Kara Swish and Pivot. You see her on CNN, where she's a contributor. She's also a former contributing opinion writer for The New York Times. She co founded the tech news site Recode, and then, earlier in her career, she was also a reporter for The Wall Street Journal, where she founded the tech news site All Things D and she was a reporter at the Washington Post.

All right, everybody. Her new book is burn Book, a Tech love Story. It details her more than thirty years covering the tech industry. We are delighted to have with US journalist and author Kara Swisher joining us now from Chicago. Hello, Hello, to say that we love the book. As an understatement, I think Tim and I both listened to it as audio books, so it was fun to hear you narrate it.

Sure, Interestingly, i'd have to tell you something about that book. The audio version is selling the double the amount of the print version. Wow, he's the bestseller list. So it's really interesting. So that to me, since my last book, which was twenty five years ago, is a really interesting trend. Obviously, I do podcasts, so people like listening to me.

So did you narrate your other books though, Caro, I did.

I did, but nobody was listening. So I wonder if if I wonder if it is there is no iPhone. Just remember this.

You know it's funny. So I listened to it on Spotify, which you can now listen to. So you can listen to it for free on Spotify if you're a subscriber. Carol bought it on a different service. Does it matter to you how someone listens to it?

I get paid, no matter what paid.

That's all we care about.

Okay, yeah, that's all I care about my content, which is why I'm kind of a media entrepreneur. But the bigger picture, I mean all the above that you were talking about, whether it's a I interviewed Steve Hoffman this morning for a rather long interview which we're not going to publish all after the company goes publiics for obvious reasons. And you know, I've been following a reddit for nineteen years. I just realized I've known him for nineteen years when

Now, Okay, so let's get to some of those things. I do want to start with with Reddit, and you know your conversation with Steve today, not notwithstanding, does does Reddit have what it takes to compete with the meta platforms? The alphabets? Yeah, the amazons? Now when it comes to tour I mean this is how it makes its money.

Yeah, no, yeahs it does. Okay, I mean I think they're just toy but I get so confused when they try these things. They're not profitable in a traditional sense, but they I think they have cash flow, which I think is what you need. They're remind me more of Snapchat, but a different service, a very different kind of service. I mean, their business is small, five hundred I guess five hundred million, users seventy six million daily users. I think that's the one they want to push people towards.

Particularly it's interesting what you say too about your your kids and a younger generation. I mean, as Twitter tries to find out what it wants to be when it don't call it Twitter, Carol.

What X wants to be, you can call it whenever you want. That is true.

I mean, does that give does that give redded an opening in your view? Like I'm trying to figure out what's the role.

Of It's been the same service. Twitter is now become a toxic waste dump really pretty much and a place where a billionaire works out all his childhood traumas in front of us in real time, and and so and they're very and his ugly character at this point. But no, I think it's different. It's it's it's very it's a little more like TikTok if you think about it. It's interests, like you're interested in skins or you're interested in video games.

You mentioned TikTok. We've all been, you know, talking about TikTok, as you would guess everybody has over the last week or so. Should it be banned in the US? What's the future?

What is?

And I don't know.

I have talked about this for years, so it's I'm like, oh, yeah,

And even before tick is media, yeah, even yeah, before he bought.

You know, and then he did his endless damage on the American democracy. But he had to be an American to do it.

Okay, we'll get to media more media in just a bit. I do want to stick with with TikTok and go bigger picture here. You make an interesting point in your book at the end of the book, the whole book about technology and your role covering technology over the last thirty years, about looking away from our phones, looking up from our phones, and spending less time on them. And it makes me think about the several issues that I

Well, you know, I've talked about age gating quite a bit, like we age gate a lot of things. Having having so many kids, I spend a lot of time thinking about it, but my kids weren't particularly I think there's a I think the people that really got a problem with they are thirty to fifty. They're the crazy ones. In the middle, they're the addicted ones. Younger people twenty five and under, maybe twenty two and under to you know,

Well, you could almost see the commercial, right giving a kid a cigarette, right or like you see it, like you know, but would you you know? Then you give them a phone?

Right, we see it. It's it's it's media on steroids, and so we have to think about it. And of course we're addicted ourselves parents, so it's not the whole. And more importantly, you need to have it to work. You can't not have it, so it's it's it's a cigarette you cannot not smoke, right, So, and.

Kids increasingly need it for school, Like you can't even pull it away because so much it's been done. Caro, Let's get to the book The Burn. And we were thinking Tim and I were like, how do we want to start with our how how do we want to start with there. If you were interviewing yourself, sitting in your red steelcase chairs, what would be your first question to yourself? And you sometimes come out tough first.

Yes I do. I always, not always. Sometimes I'm a charmer, that's true. I think, why why do you still love it? Why do you still well? No, if you want to be tough to me? Are you obsessed with Elon Musk?

Are you so? Are you?

He's obsessed with No, he's obsessed with me. He's the one that listen. Did you see the blurbs on the blurb?

We did?

Yes, we did?

Yeah, Well I don't know.

Them.

We can't say them all, which is why everybody knows to read the book.

I know what I did is I replaced blurbs with nasty things tech boys say about me, and I use them for marketing, because if they they want to straight for woman, right, I'll use it for selling my book. That sounds good to me. But you know they're trying to as if I'm going to be some delicate flower and melt at their insults.

Why don't well, you know what's interesting about Elon and your book? And you like make these points of that. There's parts of him that how can you not be kind of a little bit enamored where he's, you know, trying to do a solar trying to do work on really serious problems. Right, it's not like I said, how do I download music again? Like kind of thing and you do your p twop ratio, which you can't say. People have to read the book to understand what it is.

Well, he's he's a case study and someone who's lost, you know, lost the narrative or other's significantly.

Why do we lose it? Do you think?

I don't know. I'm not his mama. I think he uh. I think COVID played a part in it. I think these these he's a perfect example of that age range sort of. I guess it's thirty to sixties, a little older than that, which makes you wonder how how he loves the boob jokes at that age, at fifty two or fifty three, Who he is? I think that I think that he was doing things that were amazing. I have to say the cars, and he didn't invent Tesla, but He certainly is a business genius, and same thing

Should we should we continue to take him seriously?

I wish we could, because but he's sort of given into he's indulged himself in his manias, and so every day he's tweeting hateful things, and not every day he's doing every minute he's doing that. He's not inventing the future. You know, he's inventing. He's he's reinventing hate. Just what he's doing grievance. He's reinventing grievance.

At the same time we are seeing Starship reach new highs.

Sure yeah, well sure, but he's getting to you know, he's getting to experiment on the US dime. That's he's having US contracts, which is thank you Federal government. Yes, that's right, he is doing that. But there's other people there. I think we attribute because we have an idolatry of innovators. We think he's the only one, like he's a Willy Wonka in there making all the candies. Not you know, And so I have a great regard for Gwen Shopwell name.

Hey care, I do want to one more on Elon and then we're gonna move on. Sure, hopefully.

You know it's the character of the moments. He really is.

And you know you've known him for years, and you write about in the book that you've you knew him in the early years that the PayPal when he had when he.

Had his nut PayPal, he wasn't PayPal, He didn't create PayPal. He created x Outcome right right, people don't know says he founded PayPal. He did not found PayPal.

Obviously evolved since then, and I'm wondering.

He had a company called god he finished. He had a company called zip too that was a Yellow Pages online thing. Then he went to x dot com and then he started doing the more interesting things.

So he evolved obviously since then, and he's evolved to where he is now. Are you optimistic that this evolution could continue and you could see a different Elon Musk in a few years.

No, I don't. I don't. I think he's well passed the cell by day at this point. You know, he's devolved, is what's happened. He was really interesting. It's interesting. I get a lot of a flak for liking, and then it was a lot to like. There's a lot to like, especially compared to other people. And I know he had his problems. I'm aware. We wrote about them extensively on our site. The issues around sexual harassment and racial issues at the factories. Again, it was a problem throughout siliconbal

Hey, hey, carop. Before we go any further into the book, you know, in the book you talk a lot about obviously the tech industry, the folks you've reported on talked to, but you also talk about your dad and his passing and you were very young, how that shaped you. You

Very much. I know this is a real selling point, but the book is about death and about life, you know, creation and destruction, which is what the tech industry is about, that things go, come and go, and my own life I have that resident with my dad dying at a young age, my wonderful father dying at a young age, and the impact had on me, which gave me an early sense of mortality that stuck with me, which meant

Did you know you spend a lot of time in the book talking about Steve Jobs, and he's not one of the characters that you write about him in a in a way that I like him, really liked him.

I did like very clear in the he would think difficult guy. Difficult guy by the way, often only on product that I ever saw him be difficult, but he had he had his words. There's no question.

What would you think about where we are today politically?

Oh, you know, he was much he was much more liberal, but in the traditional sense. I think he always was trying to reach out. He spent a lot of time talking to Rupert Murdoch trying to get him to stop being so Rupert murdocky. You know, he reached He always was trying to find I wouldn't say he's a peaceful person, because that's clearly not the case, but I do think he was. He was a seeker. As you know, he

Liked stories that didn't make the book were they're a lot lots.

It's largely if everyone's asked me that I have a lot, and they as I'm on this book tour, I'm like, oh, remember that, or someone will write me, do you remember when I was like, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I just you know, I feel like if I've forgotten them, they weren't important, right, or you know, I don't have a lot about Yahoo. I wrote a lot about Yaho's ups and downs over the years, and I just didn't think it mattered at this point, Like I put in

It's sorry, no, that's okay. But like we talked about Elon, Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg's in the book, Sheryl Sandberg, Dave Goldberg, Bill Gates, readA Hoff, and everybody who's anyone in the tech industry over the last couple of decades and then some If you had one person that you could just sit down and just go everywhere and anywhere, alive or not, who would it be?

It still be Steve. He was the most interesting interview I did. There's a lot of interesting ones I really enjoy. You know, it's deep pends it's not you Nadella. I find really interesting because he's had a very interesting life being an immigrant. He has family challenges as two of his kids have learning issues and quite severely. You know, he's a person I think. I'm trying to think if I always like talking to Barry Diller. He's just fantastic,

I'm a little obsessed with Yeah.

Beyond that, he's a really thoughtful person and smart.

He was.

He did a whole thing on DEI on Twitter and I literally was like, godspeed, Mark, Like these people are just going to call you names, including Alamos. You's like you're a moron, You're a reader. He's very thoughtful and has has progressed.

Kara, I do want to We only have a couple of minutes left and I wanted to get a few more questions in. And you didn't talk at all about this in the book, but politics in San Francisco. I know in the past you toyed with the idea of running for mayor of San Francisco. You were very serious about it at a certain point. Given what's going on in San Francisco now and your prominence, your love for the city, would you ever consider that again?

No, I got to have two kids during COVID instead two more kids, So no, I don't have the time to do that. I have two Toddler's you know going on in San Francisco. Actually san Francisco solving the problem. Other cities are now suffering from what San Francisco initially. San Francisco is always first, good or bad, right, and so they're doing some innovative things. They're trying to change things.

All Right, we just have thirty seconds.

I'm running for.

Mayor now, no, I come on, we just want to headline. You know that. Hey thirty now, I'm sorry, No thirty seconds. How would you advise a Kara Swisher just beginning her career today because media has changed dramatically very quickly, and forgive me for not giving you more time.

That's okay, be exactly who you were and are. That's what I would say. You're pretty good.

Amen's sister, Amen, listen, good luck. We really enjoyed the read, and thank you so much for giving us such a big chunk of time. So appreciate it. Karra Swisher, everybody, thank you. Her new book is burn Book, a Tech Love Story. Got to say, there's so many great tidbits about being in the green room with individuals, being on stage with Mark Zuckerberg and others, and just getting into a lot of the topics that we you and I talk about a lot day to day.

Also just interesting on the business side, hearing how the audiobook is outselling the print book.

I love this podcast effect Walk the Dogs.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on applecar Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business Ad. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

Funny Ahead in.

Our second hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week, including building robots. Yeah, kind of easiest for me, but they're out there. I gotta say, what is this? Maybe be tough for building a software brain for robots? Not so easy. One company they're working to do just that. And it's CEO giving his first interview to our Ashley Vance, plus.

The startup airline that's luring flyers away. Also the London trader turned founder of Natterjack Whiskey and going for the godshot of espresso at home?

Did you even know what that is?

So I'm guilty as charged with being like this article spoke to me because I have some of this equipment at home. I've never heard of the godshot.

I didn't either, anyway, we were all a kind of googling. Anyway, you will hear more about it later on. All right, First up, this hour. We want to get to a story that's about the AI craze, but with a bit of a twist. Turns out, yeah, making robots smart well not so easy. Enter Physical Intelligence, giving its first public interview since founding the company, giving that interview to our Ashley Vance, Bloomberg Business Week Features writer.

Ashley is also the author of Elon Musk, Tesla, SpaceX, and the Quest for a Fantastic Future and When the Heavens went on Sale, the Misfits and Geniuses racing to put space within reach. He's our go to for a peek into our world's future.

Every science fiction world I think we've ever encountered usually has very smart computers and very smart androids and other robots walking around. But our world has been different. These large language models that have become so famous from open ai and Google and others, you know, they're stuck on our computers and our robots and factories and even in the home have lagged behind this new, more general purpose form of intelligence.

All right, So then take us to Physical Intelligence, the company that you write about and the CEO that you got to talk to the first interview since these guys were founded Telsa, who they are and what they're up to, because they're trying to change this.

Yeah, I mean it's it's it's a collection of robotics and AI experts. A bunch of them come from Google. Google's had this this robotics team for a long time. And then and then there's some professors and some entrepreneurs in this group. And the big problem here is that the AI that were used to these chatbots, they get fed with all of the billions and trillions of words on the Internet and books we've written, and so the quest is how do you feed robots enough data to

How do you teach Ashley, a robot to tie a shoe, for example, to do a basic task? Yeah, this part's cool.

So you know the way this has been done for the last like five or ten years is you buy a bunch of robotic arms, or you build them and you have them tie a shoe about a million or ten million times until that you tell it what it's doing a bad job and what it's doing a good job, and eventually this little robot handk ti shoe. What these guys are talking about is this new era where you do actually take the language AI models and infuse it

Actually, when this processing is happening in real time, is it happening separate from the cloud. That is, is the actual brain of something with physical intelligence, like is the is the vision for that actual brain to be physically inside the robot versus that actually that processing happening off site in the cloud, independent from you know, the physical thing.

Yeah, like to to a degree. All these models have to get trained in the cloud because they require tens of thousands of these these graphics chips to do the training. But we're seeing more and more even with like a language model. You know, you can ask chat GPT questions on your cell phone and have them answered. So the part where you've trained the model happens off in the cloud and these huge data centers. But but the robots will have this kind of local intelligence.

Just like just like we do, you know, talking to chech GPT to create a poem or something. Is that easier than actually, you know, getting the next generation AI to teach someone to physically do something? And I guess what's the data sets on that? Are there less data sets on that to actually teach these physical capabilities?

Absolutely?

Yeah, I don't want to make it sound like this is a done deal.

It's sort of I just want someone at home to do my laundry other than me. That's what I'm talking about, Ashley.

We're we're got close, We're got clothes. I mean, it's funny because robotics, I think we've had these sort of like false hopes so many times where it seems like they're about to do all these incredible things and they never seem to do it. And the challenges here are real. I mean, this gathering of the data is still a problem. Physical Intelligence's plan is to most of the companies so far they've built their own robot and it's a single thing,

Our go to for a peek into the future of this world. Ashley Advanceloomberg Business Week Features writer actually also the author of Elon Musk, Tesla, SpaceX and the Quest for a Fantastic Future And when the Heavens went on sale, the misfits and geniuses racing to put space within reach.

All right, everybody, as we wait for robots to possibly possibly disrupt the airline industry, I mean, computers already doing a lot of the work when it comes to flying, to be fair, But there is one airline upstart that's already shaking things up. It is JSX, a Dallas based airline beloved by work travelers for offering convenience, such as a chartered plane at near business class prices.

Instead of flying from packed hubs, it flies from sparse private hangars in exchange for the amenities of a big airport. Passengers get convenience in lieu of long TSA baggage screening lines, they get their bags swabbed for explosives, and they walk through a weapons detector.

But JASX is only able to exist thanks to what some airline rivals say is an FAA loophole. The founder and CEO counters that they're just annoyed he's treading on their turf. To check it out, we caught up with Alex Wilcox. He's founder and CEO of JSX, along with Mary Schlangenstein. She is Bloomberg News US airlines reporter who recently wrote about the airline that's drawn a cult following.

They put together two different types of certified air carriers and they were able to mix, you know, a public charter with what becomes a private charter with two different types of airlines and airline certifications, and basically it lets them fly in aircraft with more seats, but they don't have to have the normal TSA scanning, they don't have to have pilots that are younger than sixty five, They can have pilots with less flight experience, and so taking

Alex, come on in on this because regulators, you know, knew what you were doing. They signed off. What do you say to some of these these critics who talk about you maybe taking advantage of a loophole.

Well, I mean, I guess one person's loophole is another person's law, and it is just law. It's forty to forty five year old established law. It's law that even American Airlines does you know, it operates under.

And they're they're the.

Biggest complainer of the group here. American Airlines has a co chair with Contour, which is another Part one thirty five air carrier that operates exactly under the exact same rules, with the exact same pile experience requirements. They also sell tickets as in American Airlines, but you actually wind up flying on Contour or Envoy or sky West or japan Airlines or Goal in Brazil, which only has a two hundred fifty hour captain you know rating requirement. So this

Alex having said that your success. Sometimes success brings a lot more eye balls, including those of regulators. Are regulators coming out to you and saying, well, wait a minute, maybe we need to rethink this.

No, I mean there's been because of the efforts of two Dallas based competitors and their trade unions. They've been begging the regulators to pay attention to us. They went through the DOT, they got turned away. They went to the FAA, eighty thousand of our customers came out in

Again.

Now they're trying to TSA. They're trying to do with sub Rosa, with the TSA, with all kinds of baseless threats about security and terrorism and very irresponsible things that frankly, as an industry, we've always agreed we would never compete on safety and security matters. And so Southwest and excuse me, Southwest and American airlines have crossed that line.

And that is a.

Dangerous line of because it actually makes the entire industry less safe because it makes people unwilling to talk about safety and security in an open way, which is the way we make the system better.

Alex I wanted to ask you if you've heard anything from the FAA, if you've gotten any feedback from them in terms of the timing of their decision, and then also if you've heard anything from the TSA, which was expected to issue some proposed recommendations fairly soon.

Thanks Mary. Now, the FAA has not communicated they're going to be taking any action. They've got to read through those seventy thousand comments first and obviously respond to the concerns rates and those things, and then if they're going to make a rule change, they're going to have to go through the regular administrative process to do so, so it'll be an NPRM, a noticeable posed rule making that actually addresses whatever rule they may or may not make.

That's Alex Wilcox, founder and CEO of JSX, and Mary Schlangenstein, Bloomberg News US Airlines reporter.

You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Still to come a London trader turned whiskey entrepreneur.

Yeah, I was actually out on this day. You are you missed a lot.

I know it's two different kinds of whiskey resampled.

Well, okay, we'll make up for it. The founder of Natterjack Whiskey coming up next. This is Bloomberg.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern Listen on Apple car Play and then Broun Auto with a Bloomberg Business act or watch us live on YouTube.

Safe to say there was a fair amount of whiskey recently consumed during last weekend Saint Patrick's Day celebrations. Bloomberg News noting late last year that the global market for whiskeys is valued at approximately one hundred and forty million dollars.

Carol You and Bloomberg Wall Street reporter Shanali Basik got an inside, a look and a few SIPs. It was Friday, after all. You caught up with Aiden Meghan, founder of natter Jack Whiskey, who stopped by the studio. You started by asking how a London trader got into the whiskey business.

That's a super question, right, So back in kind of twenty sixteen, I wanted I.

Was a great career trading. I loved it.

I had an amazing team and I learned so much. But it's kind of abstract, right, So you're you're looking at a screen. You don't actually hold what you're creating. You're creating wealth or you know, and you're working really hard.

For something you never actually hold it.

And I was like, I wanted to go away, and I wanted to build something that I could hold, right, And that was just a very base level and I was I figured, Gie.

But why whiskey you could hold pair of shoes? You could hold absolutely well?

Do you know? Interestingly?

Right, my granddad owned bars Jacklashing years ago, right, and I went to see him when I was working. I always worked in restaurants, and that was always my favorite job. Waiting tables was amazing. Being a bartender amazing. And I said to him, and I'm thinking about opening a bar, and he was in his eighties. He's like, don't open a bar. Sell the beer to the bar, and I was like, okay. So when I was trading, I was like, okay, Well my background was hospitality before trading, so what would

Right?

So figured, well, exactly, But I figured Irish whiskey had missed me. I had a favorite bourbon, but he didn't have a favorite Irish whiskey. So it's like, if it missed me, maybe it's missed a load of people. So I went off on this kind of mad year and a half journey learning how to make whiskey.

And and you actually learned how to make it?

Oh yeah, yeah, I went and I went and worked in Breckenridge in Colorado with Jordan Vya, who's still our master distiller because he's much better than me.

So but I went and learned.

I stayed with him for a month working double shifts at the distillery and kind of built a relationship there, and then built a team and came up with a brand and we launched in twenty nineteen.

How hard of a learning curve was it for you?

It's interesting, it was. The terminology was the hardest.

Right.

So when you when you go.

And you go into a distillery, people talk about different things. And the one thing I could never work out was when people said they pitch the yeast right.

I couldn't work it out. It's is it a temperature thing?

Is it the is it the it means throw the east Okay, that's it.

Okays American term you pitch the east right.

It sounds easy, but it's not.

It actually is really easy. You just need to know the amount. So there's a huge amount of science behind it. But I learned the kind of the art of it as well, and the art of coming up with the flavor profiles and really working on what flavor profiles I wanted to create.

Well, let's go there, because, like you, I like bourbon versus whiskey. But so tell me, like, how did you figure out where you wanted to go in terms of the taste profile.

So Jordan and I would sit down with samples of what we were going to be able to blend with and we would he you know, he, we just talk about it. It's very olfactory, right, So it's what what is it you want more of? Do you want more mid palate sweetness? Do you want more length? And all of these things, And we we worked the blend. I'd fly over with the samples because I was in Ireland

Where the color and the flavor comes from.

Right Well, now, the base spirit adds a huge amount of depth and complexity as well, but for me, it's it's a lot about the wood. And so we put it for a year into Virgin Oak chur number four, which we sourced from from segu Moreau and NAPA, and we actually took like this is back in twenty nineteen and Fay and I took our son Gussie to segra Moreau and there's we have pictures of him as a one year old with these all these flames around the place.

So you launched in twenty nineteen, twenty twenty global pandemic.

Right, what was that?

Like, it's a misery, right, So twenty nineteen was amazing. By the end of it, we were by the end of our first year, which was only kind of ten months of trading, we were in six US markets and four global markets, right, and just the world was incredible. And I went on this ten day, five market trip in the States and it came back from it. I did Washington, Chicago, New Hampshire, Florida, and New York.

Right.

I came back and I was like, hey, we need to go to the States, Like that's this is where this is going to live and die. The entrepreneurial spirit of tell me more about your brand exists here very viscerally in a way. I didn't find it in Ireland.

So I was like, let's go. And this is the end of twenty nineteen. We're like, let's go.

We're going to sample a little bit before we do, and I'm going to tweet it out and maybe I can show it for those folks. There's a frog on your label. It's really kind of a cool looking frog. It's a spirited toad.

Actually right it is.

Yeah, it's the only tone indigenous to Ireland. But it's a very Irish toad. It can't hop, it walks, it can't swim at rounds. It does things its own way to survive, much like ourselves.

But interesting.

It has a gestation period from toadlet which is a baby toad to fully grown total of three years. Irish whiskey takes three years to become whiskey from new make it has so you thought about this, Oh absolutely, it has amazing call that can we heard two kilometers away like some of the best whiskey drinkers, and it's not turned like all the best whiskey drinkers.

As you said, you've really thought about the brand and the packaging. I'm going to open it up and pour some were there's a thing tell us about, though, tough time because you guys were around during COVID.

Yes, we all actually before we do that.

What are we trying?

Oh, you're trying to get matter Jack Blend number one, which is our kind of our flagship product. It is triple distilled, finished for a year in Virgin oak, so three and a half years experbon, one year Virgin Oak. And it's it's eighty proof and is the smoothest, easiest drink and whiskey you're ever going to come across. As a friend of mine said, it's great drink.

And whiskey eighty proof.

Man, we only have five minutes to go, girl, you okay, so talk to us about COVID where you probably could have used a lot of this, because that's a tough time exactly. So it's also pretty amazing lockdown. This smells like a lot of bourbon yet, but I kind of almost sweeter.

There's a little bit of sweetness on the on the nose. I completely agree. Yeah, and it goes incredibly into Manhattan.

So if you're drinking, I was thinking whiskey sour, which my dad used to make a lot growing up.

Yeah.

So so yeah, twenty twenty right, things shut down and are like I give an example, our biggest client in Ireland was the airport. Flights are gone right, So immediately your business in Ireland's gone right. Business in the US we to pivot from the on prem to the off prem. That involved changing, you know, or packaging that sort of thing. And so what happens is over the time period of the first few months of COVID, you're not having any revenue, your your fixed costs remained the same.

We still let staff and.

There's nothing coming in.

There's nothing coming in.

And so we tried our best to stay afloat. And then obviously after a while, investors don't want to hear that COVID is the problem, like you know that a problem was like Superna, Ricar or Diagio. Their numbers were quite good during COVID because as far as I could see it, they owned every point on the shelf from a ten dollar bottle to an eighty dollars bottle. We only had one SKU, which is what we're drinking right now, one product?

How much is this cost? That is in New York thirty eight dollars?

Okay, So how do you define that? Who is buying it? Or do you find it at a bar?

Do you find it fun at bars?

Yeah?

So we priced it very much for the cocktail list in bars because that's where people people will see it on the menu, and that's a really important part of the sales strategy.

I would say, for an eighty proof, it's really nice.

It doesn't go down hard, No, it's very it's it's not sweet, but it's kind of a softer exactly.

A triple distillation of Iris whisky does make it smooth, but then the virgin oak really rounds off those edges.

All right, I'm gonna take the glasses back. You're going to tell us about the second bottle and I'll pour it.

And so this this is a this is our our cast strength, right, and the idea behind this is going to be true cast strength lessing around right. So it's it's what comes out of the barrel. It goes through a sieve and it goes into the bottle. That's it.

Why would Jim Murray be calling me?

Who is Jim Murry has the Whiskey Bible. He's very famous in the in the industry, so cool reviewing. And I was like, this is one of my mates. Like, there's no way Jim Murray's calling me. So he's like, no, it's it is Jim Murray.

And I was like, somebody get me. Jim Murray's normal.

This is the Arris Whiskey of the Year for twenty twenty.

Twenty twenty four.

Ye beat out, It beat out all of our friends. Middleton, thirty year old.

I feel like you're a little bit of a connoss war okay, more than me. You're gonna laugh at me, you like the other one.

No.

But in college when I didn't want to go out, I used to tell people I'm hanging out with my boyfriends Jack and Jim.

Did you really high shirted? We're newspeople. We like to write and Bloomberg. There's a definite difference.

Though, huge.

Yeah, and the mouth feel is different. There's loads of butterscotch on this, Yeah, And we were just were just amazed. So eventually I worked out that it was Jimmery on the phone. He said, you've won Irish Whisky of the Year. It's the best Irish whiskey I've tasted in years and years. What you've done is incredible, And I was like, this is amazing.

Yeah, so more inclined for people to drink it as is versus the other one.

So actually that one I put over a big cube of ice.

I'll drink it over an hour and it as the as it dilutes, it tells the story all of its own.

So I think it's amazing.

It's really lovely. I am not a whiskey drinker, but this is really lovely. How do you distinguish yourself, as we talked about, like some of the giants man they have you know, they can go with a bunch of different varieties. How do you kind of get yourself noticed? So the market that has a lot of choices.

So you've got to do something different, right, if that whiskey if we called it Whiskey eight and Megan's Whiskey. The three of us wouldn't be sitting here today, right, I'd probably be back in a different job. So natter Jack stood out the toads.

Doudsly as simple as the name that.

The whiskey has to be good. I'll tell you back when we were seeing people at the start, loads of people told us, don't worry about what's in the bottle, it's only the brand. But that's actually not true, because people really come.

The first sale. You'll get second sale.

It's got to be cool, buye because the battle looks cool, and then you'll take it home and say never get exactly.

I'm going to ask the most Wall Street question ever, the investment banking reporter for years, of course, is going to ask you this, what are your bigger ambitions? Is the idea here to get rolled up by the likes of a Diagio one day?

Maybe one day and on our investors will want to return, right but realistically so we're in fourteen global markets in sixteen US markets now. Right from the back of being out of money at the end of twenty twenty two, it's been an amazing transformation. We have an incredible board of investors who support us. So honestly, my passion and drive for this is to create a global brand. And what I sell it in the morning, maybe but maybe not.

So that's a big deal. Huge Is there more choices to come? Like do you build this out?

Yeah?

So I'll tell you there's it real quickly, very quickly. We've got something called Natterjack the mistake because I left one hundred barrels in barrel for a year two long. I completely screwed up. It says it on the back, and the label's a mistake and.

We're launching it. In April, who launched a Narris whiskey in April. It's a mistake. The whole thing's a mistake.

That was Aiden Meghan, a founder of Natterjack Irish Whiskey, with Carol and a Bloomberg Wall Street reporter, Snelly Bassett.

It was really fun. We'll have to have them come back.

I'm booking another. I'm booking another alcohol guests. Don't worry, Okay, I just sack an email.

Or it's still ad on Bloomberg Business Week. Making the perfect espresso at home.

Finally, something I know about.

Getting an espresso. It sounds like the espresto side I didn't realize for you.

Yeah, it's a long story. We'll get into it with Chris Rows. There also something I don't know much about, stepping out of Rolex's long shadow.

Yeah, this is an interesting story. I know Chris will know a lot about that. Also, getting rid of pesky desmite. It's curtains for you, Rocky, It's curtains.

That's all ahead on Bloomberg Pursuits. This is Bloomberg.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at two pm Easter on applecar Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

All right, everyone, it's time for Bloomberg Pursuits and for all of you home barristas. We've got how to get the godshot of expresso, which is going to be one of the first things. We're going to ask Chris Rouser what the heck is that? But we'll get to that in a.

Moment, because there's more to get to. Also, the watch that's along been relegated to a spot in Rolex's shadow. It's having though it's moment in time.

It's shining. So too is the suite of the Moment, which was previously unattainable but can now be delivered to your front door for like a million dollars. But we'll talk about that later.

We're gonna have a lot more. Let's get to it with the editor of Pursuits, Chris Rouser. He's here in our studio. Chris so excited about talking espresso here.

I know, I know you're excited about it. I'm excited to talk to you.

Finally, something in Bloomberg Pursuit that like I can say, yeah, excuse to me. So a few years ago, the height of the pandemic, for the holidays of twenty twenty, my whole family got together behind my back and they bought me a full prosumer set up for espresso, so the grinder and of course the espresso machine. And since then I've been trying to get the god shot.

Your life has been ruined.

It's get there?

Did you get there?

You know, I'm not as as I'm not as focused on that as some of the other folks are. Like I like the process and I just love the taste of what we can do home.

First of all, can you do a little bit of a like definition here? A prosumer and also godshot?

Yes, So a prosumer espresso machine is one is one that's like basically like a professional one that you would see in a cafe but at your house, a pro consumer kind of professional consumer.

Yeaht it.

And then the god shot is this mythical shot of espresso that people tend to only have once in their life. A lot of the people we talked to in our story can remember where they were and they remember the coffee beans that were ground for it, and they have spent the rest of their life searching to replicate the godshot. And so I guess Tim, you're on that mission.

I am how long have you been on that mission? Since twenty twenty, Since December twenty twenty.

Long time.

Yeah, it's great though, I mean we make What's fun about it is we make we can make good coffee at home, and I love making coffee for other people too. So I have the Bizara besy ten and a Bizara grinder as well. And you know you mentioned in the piece whole Late Love, it's basically where you a distributor. Yeah, the distributor where you go for all this stuff. They're in New York State, and you can also call them with questions because like everybody has questions about this stuff.

They're like the butterball turkey people.

They're like full turkey people.

So this so it's funny you've got that in twenty twenty because this really boomed during the pandemic. Fancy espresso machines are not new. This has been a trend for a long time among certain kind of people who have the kind of money and kind of time to devote to it. But since twenty nineteen, the amount of money spent on pro sumer models, which are the really high end models, has tripled.

Wow.

People have really really gotten into this since the pandemic, including our writer whose friend gave him a beat up old machine like you, Tim, His friend was like, I think you would beat into this. I know you love cappuccino. You got some extra time, And since then the writer has just been on this quest to make not even a godshot, like an okay shot.

Well, the thing about this is that there's so many variables that make it difficult to make a really good shot. So you don't just have the beans, you know. That's also that's really important. The grind is so important, so you have to have the exact right type of grind. It can't be too fine, it can't be too coarse. And then you also have to have the right tamping pressure. You have to make sure the grounds are level. In the Tampa, they need.

A cup of coffee to make it.

It is kind of a joke around the house, like yeah, and then a scale to make sure you have the right right amount of beans, and then also that you're pulling it for the right amount of time. Yes, all of those things, you guys, want to come up for a guy.

I didn't really know this because I go to a coffee shop almost every morning and I get a cappuccino and I see them do all of this really fast. So I didn't realize that the reason they're able to do it so fast is because they've done it thousands of times and they have it practiced. But in your own home, even the tamping, like you said, if you get it uneven, if you tamp that like.

Puck, this is this is when they pound it together.

Yeah, when they put it in the I don't even Tim, what's the words.

That's called a porta filter.

Filter, and then they tamp it down to get it flat. If you don't tamp it down, the water can come through and create channels through the through the espresso kind of going around it, and then it'll be watery. So our writer Rob can't get the tamping right. But Tim, I think you sounds like you.

Have no not every time. But I'm also not. I won't throw away a shot. It's rare that I'll throw away a shot like it'll get drunk and it's okay if it's not perfect, it is, Yeah, it still tastes good there are a lot of variables, but it's still even if it's not perfect, it's still good. It's still okay. Yeah, at least for my pack.

I feel so low rent with mine espresso.

I'm just gonna say it right now. Don't look away from me.

No, you can come over. You can come over any up until then, come over for coffee anytime.

Guys, what are these things cost? Like, give us an idea and like and you said like sales were kind of like growing a lot or have grown a lot.

Yeah, So the if you want to start like a starting model an Evo Pro, it's like four hundred and fifty dollars, and then they get up into the two thousand and three thousand and four thousand dollars level. So the one that we shot that our writer has is Lilt Bianca, which is three thousand dollars.

Just reminder my whole family to get me the grind or a machine. Hey. Since then, two sets of friends have come over and gotten really into espresso, and like now they have their own machinery. You were so into espresso, Yeah, I believe my dad years ago, he got a machine years ago and then during the and I was just obsessed with it.

One of the people we talked to, a distinguished chopware engineer at Google, which is a real title, bought a machine for those who are distinguished. He went on an eighteen month road trip because it was the pandemic and he could work from anywhere, and he took his three thousand dollars espresso machine around with him in like a gun case. That was the whole time, a huge expresssh That's how devoted people are.

That is sorry.

I've moved with it once and then I had to take it to get to get reconditioned once and I'm never picking that thing up again.

All right, Should we talk about watches? Can we talk about watches? Because I feel like the poor sister child to the.

Rolicks, so we Andy Hoffman are Swiss watch industry reporter engineer has a great story. The watch brand Tutor is a sister brand into a Rolex. They operate on the same campus and until recently they were kind of made of the same stuff. And Andy got the first ever ever interview with the managing director of this company. He's not even usually publicly identified, but they've really been trying to step out from the shadow of Rolex, which is the most famous watch company in the world, and they've

Do they still kind of look like Lexes?

They do?

They do. I mean there's not a huge variety of the watches. They have got these black Bay watches which have a bezel. They look like a Tutor sub mariner, I mean a Rolex sub mariner. But now I feel like you can tell the difference when you look between the two.

And you said about half the price, So what is that?

Well, so they start, we probably get a Tutor. They started around eighteen hundred Swiss francs. Most people are buying models of Tutor that are about four thousand and five thousand US dollars and a Rolex model starts at like nine or ten, and then they go way up and Tutor watches don't really go.

There's a cute little tidbit too in the story. I'm not going to give it away about Rolex's logo versus a Tutor logo, but what.

Yeah, which I didn't even know, and I've covered watches for ten years, I never really thought about it. Logo is a crown, probably the most famous watch logo there is, and the Tutor logo is a shield. And it's because the shield defends the crown, and by operating in the lower price space, Tutor makes it so that Rolex doesn't have to make watches in those space and can pursue the high high end.

None feel like I'm watching something else BBC or something.

I'm just going to turn out there. You could buy a Tutor, or you could buy an Espresso machine and grinder that absolutely true.

Or a piece of melon or a single piece of fruit, can you tell us.

A great story?

Tell us about this melon that can be really expensive.

You may know about Japanese fruit. There's a certain kinds of very special Japanese fruit that take a lot of time to grow. They're very specially remember the square water melons that were like very big a long time ago. Used to be very difficult or impossible to get that

For a single melllon.

Okay, that's funny, which they are grown in this Basically these fruit are so special because they're grown in an especially careful way and they're very concentrated in flavor and beauty.

To be honest, maybe they're massaged sometimes too. They or wear a little hat.

When we received a melon to shoot for this story. It arrived on a pillow.

Did you eat it?

Someone ate?

I didn't.

So like the melons, for example, are grown, there's just like one little melon tree, one fruit per tree.

Wow.

They don't let it grow, more like they concentrate all the energy into this one fruit. And strawberries are a big thing that are are being imported now. Also some citrus too, but the strawberries can be very expensive for a pound, like eighty nine dollars a pound.

Your daughters had something.

Well, So this trend of Japanese who come to the United States didn't actually start with importing. There is a vertical farm in New Jersey where a Japanese farmer came to the United States and built this vertical farm. And they now sell the or strawberries through Whole Foods. They're like fifteen dollars for what you would normally you know, pay six taste differently, yes, they if you get them from Whole Foods. They come in these like little individual buckets,

Curtains for dust mites talk about this busy plus streamer.

So steamers. You may use a steamer. You may have a steamer to use on your clothes oftentimes when you're traveling. It's great if they have it in a hotel, just get rid of the wrinkles really fast. There's a new steamer that you can get for your house, but like also like a pro sumer model by the Swiss housers company Lara Star, and it not only will steamer clothes at with like a three hundred and two degrees steam

Did not know we had so many dust.

Mites in our home, like an allergy test, and it's like like I have no allergies except for dust mites because they're everywhere.

Well, you got to get one of these, uh steamers, Carol.

You know how your pillow gets heavier over the years, it's mites. Really, Yeah, that's why you gotta change around or use this steamer.

Okay, everybody's gonna go home your pillow. Chris, thank you so much, really appreciate it.

That's the editor of Bloomberg Pursuits, Chris Rodser. Check out more from Pursuits in the entire Businesswek team by heading to Bloomberg dot com.

This is the Bloomberg Business Week Podcast, Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you get your podcast. Listen live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the Bloomberg Jermale