Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend-March 20, 2021

for many still working from home. Although our office definitely felt like a lot more of our team were coming back, it did. It's a nice feeling. It is a nice feeling, right Yeah, But the debate about coming back to work continues. Ford, for example, is letting thirty thousand employees remain at home post pandemic, and in the meantime. One of our most read stories this week was on how at long Last

Wall Street is seeing a path to returning to work. Yes, indeed, that wasn't of our most read So with that is our backdrop, we'll get an update on COVID cases and surges. Will do that with the CEO of Atlantic Health System. We're also gonna have back with us the founder and CEO of the Global pr from Edelman and signing documents digitally during the pandemic. We've all been there, right. As a result, Doccu sign has seen its business taking off. We're going to check in with the company's CFO and

talk about whether this is here to stay. I kind of like doing it this way, Yes, so do. I much easier by the way. I think Congress should do it this way instead of delivering, you know, hundreds of pages of documents. It's time to come into the Congress.

All right, all of that to come, We begive with this week's cover story, which is about an essential business to him during the pandemic that also happens to be the one company in the US that makes the nasal swabs for all of our COVID tests, and a little bit of drama the two feuding cousins behind that business. The tale told by Bloomberg News technology reporter Olivia Carville, who joined us along with Bloomberg Business Week editor Joel Weber. This is I think one of my favorite stories that

we've published over the last year. UM. I think it's a great untold story of the pandemic um which is basically, imagine having a business that, um, you know, a year ago, you basically the world discovers we're gonna need a lot more nasal swabs than you. Happen to be basically one of two companies in the world that makes them, and that's a company called called Puritan. It's a closely held

family company in Maine. UM, at the very outside of the pandemic, we happen to have done a photo shoot UM, basically showing their their operation, and m Olivia came to us a couple of months later and said, by the way, do you guys know about this epic lossuit between the two cousins who own the business, And we're like, no, tell us more, so, Olivia, tell us more. Who are the owners and what are they funing over? Yeah, well

thanks for having me. Um. The owners of Puriton is Timothy Tinplett and John Cartwright, the both based up in Maine. This is a family business. It's been around for you know, more than a hundred years now, and they haven't liked each other for a really long time. One of the most fascinating things about reporting the story is the timing of it all. Like in the lead up to the pandemic, probably two years before COVID really hit or became a

household name. They stopped speaking to each other. One of them just walked out of a meeting and refused to have anything to do with the other. And um, they refused to be in the same room, didn't want to talk to each other. And that led to some really big problems inside the company. There was their manufacturing equipment wasn't being modernized, they weren't updating their technology. Their back

office technology system was twenty years old. They had and updated their wages or given staff salary increases, and then, um, three weeks literally three weeks before the White House called this company to say we need you to ramp up swab production, one of them filed a lawsuit against the other to dissolve the entire business, all right, and then walks in the government exactly. Yeah, that brought the ball together,

and they're not happy and happily living, you know, ever after. Well, that's a really interesting part of the story is that the government was like, we need you to sit side your differences for the good of the country, and they said that they would, but we access the legal file and inside private courtroom sessions, they continued to fight and are still fighting to this day, which, um, you know,

let's let's go ahead and talk about the money here. Um, how much money is the US government put into making Sure appeared and keeps coming? Over the past year, they've invested two hundred and fifty million dollars into the company and plans are underway for another facility in Tennessee. So that's only going to go up. I mean, why don't they get along? And I know in your story you talk about that it might have started as they were kids.

I mean, but it's noticeable. Employees know it. And it wasn't until right the President visited that they were actually seen together. Yeah. I think that they're just both really stubborn. Um, they both have their own vision for how they see the future of the company going. Puritan has actually got a sister business called Hardwood, which started out making minted

toothpicks like a hundred years ago. And John art right, one of the cousins, is really heavily involved in the hardwood side of the business, and Timothy Template is involved in the Puritan the medical side. And as these two companies had kind of gone in different directions, they really felt struggled to kind of work together to see a future for both of them, So, you know, just two stubborn people who had their own vision and just didn't

want to back down. Okay, so you got to spend some time in Maine the summer, which made the reporting like so much greater. Carol. Just to have Olivia basically being like pitching the story and then being like, by the way, I'm going to be in vain for a little while, I was like, oh my god, you can't make this up. Amazing. So you got to know basically everyone in Guildford. So put us on the wasn't that hard job. There are only fifteen hundred people who live

in Guilford. Tell us about the company and how it fits into two main and the meaning of it all. Yeah, Well, Guildford is a tiny town. There is one Staunt there, which also serves as the local bar. There's no Starbucks, there's no McDonald's, like very very small town America and Hardwood Purison or the business is the biggest part of the whole town. They do a lot for the for the town. They often put on fireworks shows, they donate

playground equipment, They help maintain the local parks. Everyone who lives in Guildford knows the company had has either worked there, had a family member who worked there, or knows the owners specifically. This week's cover story, as told by Bloomberg News Technology reporter Olivia Carville, along with Bloomberg Business Week

editor Joel Weber. Check out more stories in the current issue of Bloomberg Business Week, now on news stands, online, and on the Bloomberg So much good stuff coming up, though, more on COVID and the vaccine rollout. We'll do that with the CEO of Atlantic Health, who reminds us to him that we are not out of the woods, at least not yet. Yeah, the number is plateauing. It's concerning in a lot of places. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week.

This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovik from Bloomberg Radio. We're thrilled with the response that we're seeing from our guests in terms of future reservations. That was Bob j Pex of the Walt Disney Company this week on Bloomberg talking about the reopening of Disney's to California theme parks on April this tim after they were dark for more than a year. It's kind of hard to get your

head around it. It is. But you know, if people are vaccinated, if they're two weeks out from that second shot, in some cases, perhaps they're starting to feel comfortable with these things. And look, as Emily Chang pointed out to us on Quick Take this week, perhaps it could be a good time to go if you're feeling comfortable because there are those capacity restrictions in place and you're not necessarily going to be waiting in line. Wouldn't that be

sweet to do that at a Disney park. Well, we had a lot of coronavirus headlines this week, the Biden administration reaching its goal of rolling out one million vaccine doses a head of schedule, the President also eying mid May to begin relaxing travel restrictions, and the World Health Organization supporting astra Zenecast COVID nineteen vaccine after pushback by several European countries. All right, so every day we have

a conversation on the virus. Many or voices that we've turned to over the past, and that includes this one. Brian grand new Lotty. He's the CEO of the Atlantic Health System. It's a massive system in the state of New Jersey covers more than half of the state. He reminded us, though kind of sobering, that we're still living

with a pandemic. We are co existing with covid um and we've been at that plateau for a while and UM, you know, we're able to care for those patients safely, and UM it's business as usual with everything else that we do. You mentioned and use the word plateau, and we've been hearing that from some of the different medical professionals, professionals that we've spoken to. Brian. UM, does that sitting at a plateau kind of bother you a little bit? You know? It does, because we'd love to see this

UM start a straight line down. UM. But also we have to be realistic about the fact that this virus is in our communities and because people are not yet immunized, UM, we're going to be having this kind of level of activity. And what I point to for how long? You know, I think we're going to be in this situation, probably until May or June, UM, when we are able to get this vaccine into UM. You know, about sixty percent

of the people in the community. UM, And UM, you know that's hopefully the plan here, but we're waiting on that supply. So I want to have realistic expectations about this and make sure I understand we are going to you think, see a plateau of tens of thousands of new cases each and every day in the United States until we get to that point where we can have the majority of the population vaccinated. Yeah, it's endemic in the communities that we serve. And so that's why masking

is still really important. UM, that's why testing is still important, because we've got to stay on top of the variants that we're seeing coming out. UM. But that combination of of masking, social distancing, the things that Dr Faucci talks about, and then getting as much vaccine out as quickly as possible, those are the tickets that that we need to get back to UH state and get this economy completely open. Right.

I heard you, you know, we heard you say, you know kind of we stay at this sort of the plateaus until we get more vaccines at what are you hearing about? The supply chain, uh and getting access to more vaccines. So right right now, uh, you know, here in New Jersey, we've been at this vaccine since the beginning of the year, and UM, you know, we've got about almost of folks that had either a first or

second vaccine in New Jersey. Here at the Atlantic Health System of we've distributed over to We vaccinated over two hundred thousand people. UM. Already we have eight hundred thousand people on our waiting list and UH right now we're doing about six to seven thousand vaccinations a day at our eleven centers, but we're prepared to go to ten thousand a day as soon as we get the supply.

And so the supply UM is on its way. UM. I think the combination of the steps that the Biden administration has taken to use the their power to get the vaccine manufactured. UH. The fact that we now have three vaccines that work UM equally well on the most important thing, which is getting really sick or dying UH

is an important piece. And because we have a vaccine like J and J, which is a different format and it's a one shot vaccine, it gives us a lot of opportunities to get more portable with that vaccine and to get into places that that we haven't been able to serve yet. UM. And we're excited about that. You heard me mentioned that Ohio is expanding vaccines to anyone over the age of sixteen. Alaska has already done that

for people living, living and working in the state. Is that something you see as the essential next step to get over the next hurdle? Yeah, you know. UM here in New Jersey, UM, we've gone through different iterations of expanding the pool. But what that's done is it's created the waiting list quite frankly, because we don't have the supply yet to be able to serve the demand that gets created. So you know, we have over four point

seven million people eligible for a vaccination right now. So you know, I understand why states are are, you know, kind of just completely opening up, but you know, you've got to be smart about this and some priorities or else you're just increasing a queue. And uh so I think the way that New Jersey is doing this is

making sense. We've added teachers, which are really important. I know, at one of our mega centers that we do in conjunction with the state and the Morris County, New Jersey, you know, we just went over our hundred thousand patients. Uh and that happened to be a teacher from Morris County, New Jerseys. Hey, so, Brian, one thing we wanted to ask you, Um, Tim and I. You know, we were noting that we are seeing restaurants in New York, in New Jersey, they are able to increase their capacity in

a big way. So we are increasingly seeing our society in our economy opening up. Good on one hand, but I do wonder if somebody who oversees a massive health care system and can see how quickly it can get overwhelmed, does it worry you a little bit? And what are you worried about? You know, Carol? It it does. It

does worry us a bit. Um. But one of the things that I have confidence in is that here in New Jersey, we've been following the science and we've been pretty careful, you know, And I think I think there's been some criticisms about that. So I'm confident that beginning to gradually reopen things like restaurants and other venues, it's an important part of getting back to a normal uh

and I support it. But we also have to stay pretty vigilant, and we have to do testing, and we have to do contact tracing when we do see outbreaks, and then take the appropriate actions but again, if people use common sense, wear a mask, UM, wash their hands, stay socially distant. Uh, you can. You can go into restaurants. Right now, about six of our workforce has gotten vaccinated.

UM and UM. You know, we've had a full core press on that since the beginning of the year, the vaccine playing a big role in people's decisions to return to workplaces. That was the CEO of the Atlantic Health System, Brian Granny Lotty. Still ahead. The most important thing to say out of this is America's in shock and as a result, most individuals don't trust many institutions. The latest

trust barometer. When we come back, this is Bloomberg broadcasting from the financial capital of the world, Bloomberg eleven Frio in New York to Washington, d C. Bloomberg to Boston, Bloomberg one O six one to San Francisco, Bloomberg nine sixty to the country Sirius XM CHADO one nine team, and around the globe the Bloomberg Business app and Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This is Bloomberg Business Week. We all know. It's a little more than one year since the World

Health Organization declared the coronavirus outbreak at global pandemic. So much has happened since, and many have said going back to normal quote unquote is not what happens next. Since so much has changed as a result of the health crisis. One way to see how that has impacted trust in our society is through the Edelman Trust Barometer. This is an index that really shows how individuals feel about business, government, institutions,

media and more. The index has been updated throughout the year, including this past week. I find this is a gut check for me. So we got the latest data batch from the founder and CEO of the Global communications from Edelman. We're talking about Richard Edelman. He began with how they

actually came up with all this data. We talked to Americans across the economic spectrum, as across the geographies, and um, we do it online and we lasted it in uh December, and you'll recall that business was the most trusted institution in the world for the first time. The deep divide between Trump voter and a Biden voter m for example, especially about media, where there was a forty point difference

in terms of trust. Um, the only thing they could agree on was that business is trusted and especially and especially my employer. That my employer, the trust is local that you know, I trust my CEO, my colleagues at work, and so you know, things near me because I can control that relationship. Well, okay, and so that was last time around. What's interesting in this time around is there's not a lot of trust of anything. Yeah, well, Carol, I think the most important thing to say out of

this is America's in shock. I wrote my essays about American trauma, and um, I think half the people we surveyed said they knew someone who had been hospitalized or was dead, and um, you know I had gotten sick from COVID and and uh, the two thirds said, I'm still living in a pandemic survival mode. And I know the markets are going up and and everybody's optimistic about

the future, but the markets are not seen today. Um. And you know, it's a real, um, kind of stunning thing that more people have died than than in World War two, World War One, Vietnam and Korea. And it's we are literally the death of the world or something like this. It's scary, it's shocking. Well, I can hear it in your voice to Richard, and you're right when I think about this when we actually it's not just numbers and stats that we roll off here, it's it's individuals.

And as you said, you know most people either know someone or know someone who lost someone because of COVID specifically. You know, listen, you have been talking to ceo s for so many years. You know, how is this kind of changing how they will run their companies going forward, especially if if they're seeing these surveys and they're saying people are employees, don't trust us. So I think they feel a special responsibility after this year to do differently,

And I actually feel very inspired by that. You know, we have clients new Lever for change the song on the ice cream trucks because they found out that it was a racist minstrel song from the eighties, And within a month they said, okay, we're gonna missoning a new song with the Rizard from New Wittan Clan. And as songs for a World Day are going to be different, kids are gonna have a different jingle. That's the kind of speed, need and an agility that that American business

is doing. Or Dan Showman of PayPal saying I found out that half my people were living kind of on a hand to mouth way and I had to raise their wages. That's amazing, Uh, flexibility like I've never seen before, Carol, Yeah, which is really remarkable. You know it's interesting too, Richard, like some of the uncomfortable conversations we've been having. And one individual said to me and and she's like, you're not gonna believe this is going to come out of

my mouth. And this is from a black American, said, you know, we need to kind of thank Donald Trump in some ways because there are conversations that came out over the last year to some extent because of some of what he said and the conversations that came out of that, and that we're having on a corporate level that that we didn't have before. To be fair, well, I think one big thing that that really is important though, that I want the listeners to processes. We cannot as

business force our employees to get vaccinated. Our respondents said, listen, I'm prepared to consider it, but don't compel me. And the same thing about only six are prepared to go back to work, to the workplace, to the city because there's still afraid. Only said that they're ready to take the subway said they're ready to fly, saying they're ready to go see Grandma. That's the founder and CEO of the Global Communications from Edelman, Richard Edelman. You're listening to

Bloomberg Business Week coming up next. How many of you out there signed at the bottom line digitally during the pandemic. I know, I did, I did, I did, I did, and I kind of love doing it, kind of forgetting how to sign my name. Caro, Yeah, exactly, all right, we'll have more on that with the CFO of doc you sign. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovich

from Bloomberg Radio Docu Soon you know. It's the electronic signature company used by mortgage, government, insurance, healthcare, and many, many more industries. It has been one of the companies that's odds business boom during the pandemic. The stock to Tim on a tear in the last two years. We both have used their services during the pandemic, and we wanted to hear more about the company's business recent quarter. Any post pandemic world, what does it look like for

the company. So we got up with Cynthia gay Lord, chief financial officer at covid has you know, just created huge challenges for everyone and disruptions, um everywhere. But amid those challenges, we found ways to really help our customers and and really have felt honored to play a critical role in helping people move forward all over the world. And that's kind of showed up somewhat in our business performance.

But just how folks are using our product and this, you know, I think I've seen it in some of the documents you guys shared with us, And I mean, this was a milestone year for you, a game changer, safe to say, Yeah, for sure. We crossed the billion dollars in revenue mark earlier in the year, right before the pandemic hit. And um, we're well on our way to a billion and a half and kind of growing to two billion over the course of this year. So talk to us about some of the things that we

saw in this most recent quarter. Um, you know, we're looking at quarterly revenue up fifty seven percent year over year. We're looking at billings an increase of forty six percent year over year. I mean, listen, these are off the chart numbers. What does a post COVID docum sign world look like it's it's really interesting and it's a great question. I mean, we think we're well positioned across all the

secular trends that you're seeing. If you think about, you know, we're well positioned for the anywhere economy, if you think about just accelerating digital workflows and kind of digital first being a priority for so many people and and so many companies. Um, you know, docu science fits right in in kind of a major pillar across a anywhere economy where people are looking to do anything from anywhere. Well,

and that's kind of interesting. I ment Toed that, you know, we used it for something at home, and my co

host did as well. Uh, it is interesting that there are trends out there, whether it was in detail retail e commerce specifically, there are things that many would say, we're not going back on telemedicine, and I do wonder if the world is ready based on what you're seeing, the people that you're talking to, your customers that you're you know, talking to that this is just one of those things that it just makes sense we're not going

to go back. Yeah, for sure. I think the you know, the acceleration in our demand and the surgeon adoption over the course of the year was really accelerated by Covid and kind of an urgent need. But once people are working with our products on the platform and you can see that you can do things um faster, cheaper, smarter, more secure, you're not going to go back to pen and paper and the way you were doing things before.

And it's interesting because with our notary product coming out, you know, nobody would like to go to the notary and get things notarized pre pandemic um and to be able to do that online, we don't think people will will go back to pen and paper in that way. Well, and I do wonder too specifically. You know, what do you say to folks that say, listen, you're just a

pandemic play Uh, it's a stay at home stock. You know, we talk about them all the time on air and say that once we reopen, that's not going to be the case. I know you're talking about, you know, kind of making the case here, But what do you say to people who say that to you, it's that's not what we're seeing in the business. Um. You know, the strength that we've seen in the business UM is continuing and we're seeing quite a bit of tail winds coming

into this year coming off of last year. But also again,

once you use the products, they're easy to use. You look at our customer NPS scores, a lot of our customers say their customers love them because they used DocuSign, right, because it is just it's so much easier to do digitally and and kind of when you think about the digital digital transformation that so many UM companies are going through across industries, DocuSign is really a foundational building block of how to UH do agreements and do digital workflow

UM online. All right, so let's talk numbers. So, UM, from what I understand is you've got you know, about nine thousand customers, more than a billion users right now. We're looking at revenue projected of maybe just under two billion for fiscal year, and I just wonder, give me an idea of the numbers. How many more customers can you do you anticipate in the next year or two years?

How many more users? Yeah? So, I mean, we've seen tremendous growth in our customer base and and a data point for you as we added almost as many customers this past year as we had at the time we went public, and when we went public, the company was fifteen years old already, So we added a tremendous number

of customers. And I think that's really a testament to just how people U use the product, but also uh covid accelerating things people would have done anyway, UM, they just did it faster, and so we we expect that to continue. We don't necessarily forecast out the number of customers per se, but if you think about it, uh, you know, we're ending the year with just over eight and ninety thousand customers, so almost a million customers. When you think about how many companies are in the US alone,

it's over twenty seven million. So the opportunity we're just really scratching the surface of. Um, we have a fifty billion dollar market opportunity where the largest player by far in our in our space across the signature and the agreement cloud, and we just start kind of capsulating a year that's almost what a billion a billion and a

half of revenue. So we just have a lot of a lot of runway, and particularly because a lot of that market is kind of offline to online, we believe we can continue to add customers at a good clip here going forward. What do you say, though, Cynthia too. You know, I'm thinking listeners in our audience and the Bloomberg investor that's out there, the Bloomberg audience. You know, your stock was up last year, it was up the

year before. We're looking at uh your stock trading at more than a hundred and fifty five times estimated earnings per share over the coming year. UM, do you feel like you need to manage expectations a little bit because of the dramatic growth you've seen in the last year. Yeah, so, I mean, we have seen tremendous growth, and as I said, we're kind of just scratching the surface of the opportunity ahead abous. And we're also you know, guiding to significant

growth at scale. And I think when you think about fifty percent growth in the overall business over the course of the year, you know, our strong guide going into Cisco UM twenty two implies UM thirty five percent revenue growth. Kind of thirty percent revenue growth scale, that's pretty tremendous growth.

There's not that many fast software companies that are growing at those rates UM, at this type of scale, and and because the market opportunity is so big and we're competing against pen and paper manual process to a more automated process, it feels like we have lots of runway and we really think long term about the business and how do we execute against the long term opportunity relative to kind of the you know, the day to day

trading environment. How do you view competition Dropbox UM, you know, acquiring the documents sharing platform doc send, So how do you look at, you know, what's going on more broadly in the space. How does something like that that link up affect you? Sure, yeah, there, I mean there's been some consolidation of some of the smaller players in this space. But give you a sense, we spend more in R and D on the signature than our next nearest competitor has in revenue. So we have UM you know market

or that that multiples of UM what others have. And so a lot of the companies that you mentioned, they are M they're actually partners of ours and and UM different companies made by a scribble signer UM to kind of add to their product portfolio. But when you think about doctu sign and you think that comprehensive nature of our application of our API and integrations, how we're integrated

into workflows across the ecosystem. If you think about where we fit with customers that we serve, serve the smallest mom and top UM customers to the largest enterprises, and so the scalability, the security, UM, the workflow pieces of the agreement cloud that we serve. And we're a trusted brand, right we UM you know, have very high MPs scores. We have kind of the security and all the privacy features that a lot of these other companies don't have.

So we partner across the ecosystem UM, and we're not as concerned about you know, different companies buying a very small player in integrating that into their products because it's not necessarily competitive with what we're doing and the broad the broad market that we're serving. I'll take that as you're not worried then, because okay, hey listen, you meant you took me somewhere where I want to go. Security

issues and privacy issues. UM. You know, Bloomberg had an exclusive story about UM the hackavist hack activists who basically tapped into, you know, tons of surveillance cameras around the globe,

just to show how easy it is. What about that when we're throwing up really important documents in the cloud and elsewhere, um, how do you ensure you know the security of all of that, because that's going to be a big thing that you know, people are gonna think twice if there's any kind of problems of course, and that's an area that we're investing a lot in across our platform and in our infrastructure, and so it's a really top of mind area, particularly for enterprises, but also

kind of in the long tail of all the customers that we serve. So we invest a lot in R and D, insecurity, in kind of all the compliance pieces required to operate at our scale. So, I mean, international is growing tremendously for US. It's about of our revenue and in Q four p M, which is it was

just quite substantial. It's um it's approaching a three hundred million dollar run rate um uh in terms of revenue for US UM and we have a really unique go to market with our digital which really feeds and creates legion into our direct business. Yeah, that's just one of those companies that will find out post pandemic whether or

not the business momentum continues. That was Cynthia gal Or, Chief financial Officer, a docu sign And that wraps up the first hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Carol Masser and I'm Tim Stanovick.

More ahead in our next hour, including as the entrepreneur in the Businessman, I couldn't sort of stand back and uh and just let people continue to be executed, Sir Richard Branson talking to us all about a new initiative, plus from the Bloomberg Equality Summit, corporate voices, including one well known to our Bloomberg audience on criminal justice reform. Also a new data expose showing how white and male some US companies are. And we're gonna wrap it up

with the CEO of Ocean Spray on the pandemic. Yes, and also on making his own TikTok video after another one of someone drinking Ocean Spray went pretty viral during the pandemic. You're the Fleetwood Mac. We've all watched it. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg. This

is Bloomberg Business Week. Inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and tech news as it happened, s Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Hi, I'm Carol Masser. I'm Cley. In our second hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week, including some highlights from our equality summit and coverage in

the magazine. It's got a common thread about the role of corporations and corporate voices and bringing about shame aged when it comes to many things, including criminal justice. All that plus the CEO of Ocean Spray on the pandemic running a co op and a TikTok video that went viral. How many times did you watch it? Uh? Actually lost count Yeah, I watched it so much. We begin this hour with a few stories, though onequality. A big theme from the Bloomberg Equality Summit this week is the changing

role that businesses and leaders are taking on society. One group of executives began a campaign to push governments to end the death penalty. Many countries have abolished it, but the US, China, Iran, Saudi Arabia are among those that still execute people now. This group is led by Virgin Group founder Sir Richard Branson. Ranson and the CEO of the nonprofit Responsible Business Initiative for Justice, Celia will Let,

spoke with me and Jennifer's Abasaja on Bloomberg Quicktake. We talked about the group's mission, as well as balancing doing business in a country with human rights violations. It is, in my opinion, um, in humane and bobaric. Um. It doesn't deter or reduce crime. It doesn't make communities safer. UM. But you know, perhaps most importantly, it has a shocking rate of arran. If you take UM the US, I've personally met a hundred and fifty people who have been

freed from death row having been found to be innocent. Um. And it took enormous time and effort by lawyers to prove their innocence. UM. Most of those people were black um uh. And when you meet them, they are some of the most delightful people could you could meet. UM. The fact that they could could have they could they

could have been executed was helpably wrong. Um. So As as an entrepreneur in the businessman, I couldn't sort of stand back and uh and just let people continue to be executed crimes they didn't commit, and and and we we decided to try to rally rally business leaders to speak out strongly about it. Well, Selia, what wrong? What role does the private sector have when it comes to pushing govern main reforms? Businesses have like such loud voices. You know, they have kind of currency on the table

when it comes to speaking to legislators in particular. Um. You know, they have a kind of credibility and their sort of unusual allies at any campaign. And you know, I think when they joined forces and they kind of partner closely with the campaign community, and they really listen to what the campaigners and advocates need and movement meeters lead and offer that um that that thing in return and meet them at the table and offer them something to support. That's when kind of real impact and real

change happens. And I think that's what we're seeing with this campaign. Richard. I'm wondering what role as a leader you have when you balance that you want to do business in a country, you want to do business with a country, but the country is doing something that you don't necessarily agree with, for example, the human rights violations that have been documented in China. You know, this is a global market where a lot of global companies want to be how do you balance that as a manager,

Sometimes you don't do business. I mean like in Brunei when they said they were going to execute gay people, or in Uganda where they said they were going to execute gay people. We said, you know, we we we, we cannot do business with you as a country if you're going to behave like that. I think, I think when it comes to um capital punishment, um you know there there there are there's raging arguments on both sides, and a lot of people just don't don't know the facts.

And you know, my my wife has you know, if somebody, if somebody commits her highness crime, she will want to see them executed, whereas myself and the rest of our family definitely definitely would not. And it's only when I explained explained to my wife and to other other businesses all all the facts and they have all the facts on their fingertips that they understand that the death penalty is wrong um um. And and countries can be a

little bit like that too. You've you've got to get in there and uh and you know, and and and persuade them. And unfortunately, about a hundred and seventy countries have now been persuaded, and they webolished the left enerty. I mean, you've got North Korea, you've got Iran, you've got China, um uh, you know, and I'm afraid you've

got America. But the vast majority of civilized countries and western countries have abolished it, and some for as long as seventy years without any increasing crime as a result. Sir Richard, I gotta ask you about space and spacks, two things that you are are very involved in. Virgin Galactic, the space company you founded. Were you surprised that math Polly Hapatia that the chairman, of course a Virgin Galactic. Were you surprised when he liquidated his personal stake in

the company earlier this month? After all? In an interview last month with my colleague Eric Shatzker, he said that he was committed to his Spack holdings. You know, we're talking about the death penal Tuesday, and I'm not to get thrown on on other subjects except to say that I have enormous respect for Samath. He's still got his state in US through his spyt um and uh and you know, I think he's he he had he plans to make a big, big announcement of how he's going

to use that particular money. And so I watch this space. Look. I had to ask him about Virgin Collector. It was a big deal when the chairman of that company just a few weeks ago sold his entire personal stake. Listen, it's the kind of thing that we focus on here at Bloomberg because it gives you an idea of the you know, commitment of an executive to the initiative that they're working on, and of course the important work that he and the Responsible Business Initiative for Justice are doing.

That was Sir Richard Branson along with the nonprofit CEO Celia will Let You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Still ahead, more on criminal justice reform, this time with a well known hitge fund and cryptocurrency investor. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovik from

Bloomberg Radio. Carol at the Bloomberg Equality Summit. This week, you hosted a discussion on a corporate response to criminal justice reform. It focused on how companies and corporate voices are stepping into criminal justice reform conversations and speaking voices. I had two great ones. Michael Novograts, he's found in CEO of Galaxy Digital, he's chair of the Bail Project, founding partner of the Reform Alliance. And then, of course someone well known to our Bloomberg audience, Mike Is along

with Robert Rooks, he's the CEO of Reform Alliance. He's also co founder of the Alliance for Safety and Justice. I began by asking, what's the smart productive conversation that we all need to be having when it comes to criminal justice reform. To start with, I think we need to grade ourselves and on a one to all under we're about a twelve. Uh. We really are an f We have a terrific system that de aids people from

the moment they're arrested. Uh. And so if you think about the process of criminal justice, right, there's supposed to be some justice, which we have all kinds of racial biases, so there's not a lot of justice, but there also needs to be an end goal, and the end goal in the U S system really is caging people. It's degradation, it's it's humiliating people. There's nothing that tries to bring people from the system and bring them back as whole citizens. Uh.

You can contrast that with what happens in Europe. Right to be the warden of a prison in Germany or in Norway, you need a master's or a PhD in rehabilitation. Every single prison ward than I've met in the United States starts as a guard and moves his way up the system with no formal education. And so the whole system in the US isn't geared to helping people deal with their trauma. And so we need a system that literally looks at people as citizens and says, Okay, these

people have screwed up. We're gonna take their liberty for a while, and we're gonna help them re enter society as productive taxpayers. And so it's just it's economically a stupid system. It's moraldy a bankrupt system. Uh, and we need to overhaul from top to bottom. Robert, come on in on this in terms of what you think what Mike just said and what you think needs to be part of this big, broad conversation so that we get it right. Carol, thank you so much for the question

that Mike, You hit it right on the head. And I'm going to come at the question from a personal perspective that I grew up in Dallas, Texas in the eighties and nineties. I saw firsthand a community dealing with

the crack cocaine epidemic. I experienced firsthand what it was like to live and grow up in that community where our needs were around treatment and poverty, but we got incarceration, We got cops and bars instead, and so over the years, what we've seen is this generational impact on misplaced investments

in our communities, and our communities have suffered. So now we have a system that has two point three million people incarcerated at four point seven five million people on probation and parole, and we're not doing anything to solve or address these issues. The conversation we need to be having right now is one about solutions. People have been organizing and industries for years and we have done nothing

about it, systemically, nothing about it. And I think now at the time of listening and we need to put forward real solutions so we can organize ourselves for better tomorrow. There is no doubt about it socially, the social component of just doing the right thing ethically. But there's a statistic I came across that about some seventy million Americans with criminal records are barred by law stigma from contributing to the economy. I mean there is an economic impact,

there's a business impact. What role can business play in decreasing the rate of people entering the criminal justice system? Mike, what are your thoughts on that? Because I think they could play a big, big role. I mean, there's a baj Angles box behind me. I'm not an investor in company, and me and our team at Galaxy, we pushed the management to hire formally incarcerated and it took six months of going down there and trying to convince them, and

then they finally did. They were shocked at a when they announced it. They had managers crying that, wow, we'd be a company that would actually hire my second cousin who's been who's been unemployed for the three years he's been out of prison. Uh, And so there was an emotional win. But it turns out there's a whole lot less turnover with guys that get their their first job and you get started. And in the quick serve restaurant business, turnover is a big cost. And so it's been a

usually successful program. And so part of this is educating businesses UH that formerly incarcerated citizens can make great employees. UH. Some of it was working with the state of North Carolina in this case, UH to change their parole ons. Right, we have horrific and stupid parole laws in America. It's like we put marbles on an ice skating rink in front of returning citizens who are barely standing to start because they've just been in jail for six years or

eight years, and say walk. Uh. And so one of the Reform Alliance's main missions is, you know, probation and parole. UH. So in North Carolina in that case, we worked with the Attorney General to change the parole rules for our guys so they couldn't get sent back for a speeding ticket or an illegal u turn or a stupid parole violation because you can't be an employer and you know, have an employee not show up but not know where he is because he got to put back to jail

for something done. So Robert, you know you too. As part of your platform and what you're working at at perform alliances. Jobs are an important part of this. Talked us about how jobs can prevent somebody from going back to jail, can can put them on a completely different trajectory. The truth of the matter is most of the laws that created match incarceration came from politicians and media. Corporations

didn't have anything to do with it at the beginning. However, corporation policies perpetuate over incarceration and systemic neglect for people. The seventy thousand barriers that people face, many of them had to do have to do with employment opportunities. So here are some very specific things corporations can do. Number one, background checks. Corporations do not have to use background checks as a way of keeping people out of UH that

those those particular jobs. Background checks absolutely should be used. People should know who's coming in UM, but it should not be a single factor for people that have UH felony offenses in terms of keeping them out. So that's number one. Another key thing that corporations can do is to start to see the entire community and the and the and the full person. The truth of the matter is people probation and parole um are are living their lives in their homes, but they are still in prison.

And what I mean by that is individuals often have stipulations to their probation and parole that keep them from work, that keep them from providing for that family. Let me have their family. Let me give you one example. An individual may have a nine am meeting with their probation officer, a three o'clock meeting UH for anger management or drug treatment, and then they have to be at home on curfew from eight pm to eight am. Where is it? Where

are the opportunities for people to work? How can someone provide for their family if that's their day, if that's their schedule. So we need to have laws that allow people to check in with their probation officer but also be able to work and provide for their family. And that was Mike Novograt's well known to our Bloomberg audiences.

He's founder and CEO of Galaxy Digital, chair of the Bail Project, founding partner of the Reform Alliance along with Robert Rook, CEO of Reform Alliance, and co founder of the Alliance for Safety and Justice were conversations from the Bloomberg Equality Summit. Just head to Bloomberg Live dot com to come speaking of equality when it comes to US companies, Guess what, Well, they're still largely white and mail. That

story up next in Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg Broadcasting from the financial capital of the World, Bloomberg Eleve in Frio in New York to Washington, d C. Bloomberg to Boston, Bloomberg one O six one to San Francisco, Bloomberg nine sixty to the Country Sirius XM Chado one nineteen and around the globe the Bloomberg Business app and Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This is Bloomberg Business Week. As we mentioned, Bloomberg Business Week did a deep dive into equality.

We've covered several of those stories on air last week. Two more though in the issue we definitely wanted to bring you tim and that was one about new data that exposes precisely how white and mail some US companies really are. The other on the diversity officer hiring boom happening at US companies. Reporting on both is Bloomberg News

Managing Diversity reporter Jeff Green. He joined us along with Bloomberg Business Week un Joel Weber, who gave props to the team effort to bring the data story to life and make it interactive on the Bloomberg and online to be clear, the magazine and and me, which is a very little credit for this one. We we we tried to make the team tried to make the interactive be you know, the glory here and and we were able to take a slice of this and bring it into

print because we thought it was such an important topic. Um, and that is really like the heart of this thing was to actually like look at corporate America and and it does as you would expect, it is very white. But to actually be Bloomberg and put data behind that and actually attempt to show progress was really what this project was all about. So so Jeff talked to us about how you went about getting this data, what it revealed, and what you're starting to watch as this is an

ongoing project. Yeah, I mean, I think the really heat the really key thing here is when we first did this last year, companies we're agreeing to show us this stata, which is not required to be released publicly. In fact, the Supreme Court has made it very clear they can't be compelled to do it, so it has to be voluntary. And so in this time around we have thirty seven with another thirty promising yet this year to show so the among the SMP one hundred, the hundred largest companies

in the US, a majority, a significant majority. By the end of this year, we'll be sharing this data that they have been keeping private for decades. So I mean that's almost more interesting than what it's showing, which is kind of what we know, but in a way that

now makes them much more accountable to it. We'll talk about this the e O one form because that's where some of this data come from, right right, And this is very important for people to understand because there's been there were a lot of people said, why are you being such a stickler, why are you saying EEO one or nothing. Well, what happens is every year all companies

with more than a hundred employees accept during COVID. They've been delayed, but they will be doing it again basically next month, have to port the racial and gender breakdown of the workforce in detail. And there's a it's very you know, very instructive. Is how to do it. So even if it's not shared publicly, there is an aggregate database of the entire workforce for the United States that that that we can see, and there's no such thing.

There's no other source for this kind of information. So when a company gives us their individual form, we can compare them against their industry, we can compare them against the country. We can do things that you can't do with what people just throw up on their diversity page and say this is what we're showing you. Well, I always feel like the devils and the details. The deeper you you really dive into numbers, you really get a

much truer picture, and it's really cool. Like as Ti mentioned, it's interactive, so you can put in down costco, Facebook, UH and video and really get a good handle on how they're doing. Overall. Though, when we do take that big broad look Jeff, how our companies doing, what are the numbers? Well, I mean it's kind of where we know they they are, but in a much more detailed way.

And it also just kind of shows how much diversity right now is sort of focused on um Asian employees tend to be overrepresentative in terms of where they where companies shift if they're not a lot of the companies that have given us their data actually are underrepresented in terms of white workers, but where they shift to is um in Asian workers, especially tech and Hispanic and black workers. The the I guess the poor employees are not faring

as well. There's a few exceptions where you have companies that are maybe in the consumer space. Um you look at McDonald's and Starbucks have managed to move some of their employees from from the workforce into the into the management ranks. But it's it's it really kind of shows, especially if you if you look at it all as a big snapshot, which you can do with one of the graphics, kind of where everything falls out. There's very few companies that are um overrepresented or even represented in

terms of black employees. For example. I think there's a very much a tone of like, you know, Okay, this doesn't look good, but it's better than being like cited as among the nose that won't share. Obviously, some companies are still willing to stand by. They don't think this is a good measure. They have lots of reasons why

they don't want to show this to us. But I think Ultimately the you know, sort of the momentum is against them now and companies are basically saying transparency is part of the is basically the cost of entry now to show that you're you're serious about this where a year or two ago um the focus was on gender, which is a lot easier to show because it's one measure,

incredibly important and really all about the data. Like so much we do at Bloomberg, it's telling a story through data, and the data is there, and I feel like, you know, when you put the data points out there, there's no like wait is that you know, there's no gray lines. The data is what it is. That was Bloomberg News Managing Diversity reporter Jeff Green, who joined us along with Bloomberg Business Week editor Joe Webber. Be sure to check

out the interactive feature online. You're listening to Bloomberg business Week. Coming up, we wrap up with something that went bit viral during the virus. Yeah, you may have heard of it. How lip sinking to Fleetwood Mac got the attention of the world. End of the CEO of Ocean Spray. That's next. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic from Bloomberg Radio.

You go, you recognize that, right? I mean, who doesn't If you didn't, if you didn't know the song before, which you know you should have known the song before. You recognize it from the TikTok video, that video causing sales of a song that was decades old to spike for Fleetwood Mac, that viral video during the pandemic, Nathan Apodaca in Idaho cruising and lip sinking to Fleetwood Mac will drinking Ocean Spray Cranberry shoes. Yeah. I watched it a lot over and it just made me smile. And

as you said, so did everyone else. It was watched tens of millions of times, and as you said, Nathan ended up Listen, we all saw him, we all got to know him, and he ended up with a new Cranberry red truck and a bunch of juice from the Ocean Spray. To hear about that, Carol, you caught up with Tom Hayes, the president and CEO of the agg Cooperative Ocean Spray. Tom also former CEO of Tyson Foods.

When I first when I first heard it and saw it actually was a friend of mine sent me a text and I said, you got to check this out, because what an amazing opportunity for ocean sprice. It was a buddy of mine sent it along, and it was it was really cool. And I had the same sort of impression I think everybody did when they saw it that this this guy Nathan was EPI Docta was very sort of distraught on the one hand that he has broke to struck, broke down and could get the work.

On the other hands, he sort of looking stride and made this video and everybody's like, wow, jeeson the time when we need it, need that positivity, he delivered and so was that was the first time I saw it. Was a lot of a lot of positivity. I mean, I can We talked about it so much of the newsroom and you guys ended up, you know, giving him a new Cranberry red truck in a bunch of ocean spray as well. Um so coudas to you guys. You also did a similar video, um and and that's pretty

cool that you did that. Yeah. Thanks. You know, the team really sprung to action and they said, how can we take um full you know that to the opportortunity and take it to its fullest extent and really helped Nathan get you know, what he needs, which is a truck of transportation. Uh. And the team jumped to action, and we said, this is afraid. If we're going to do this for him and give him the transportation, why

not make the truck cranberry red? And then why not loaded up with you know, cranberry crand raspberry juice in the back, which is what he was drinking on eskateboard. And you know, when I was asked to play a role, I said, you know, absolutely easy decision. YEA happy to do it. And I was skateboarder like you is. But I figured it out and you know, if mixed fleet we could do it. I figured, well I should give it a show. We've been playing it all for the

folks watching right now on YouTube. Hey listen, So one year into the pandemic, you know, tell him what stays with you from a year ago and how do things look today? You know, So for a year ago, things were obviously very different mood wise. People were shocked and scared, not that they aren't now, but it was just nobody knew what to do now we do know what to do. Safety protocols and planks and our plants. People you know, certainly social distancing where they can, and we've you know,

unfortunately learned to sort of live with it. But I would say the thing that has changed at Ocean Spray beyond just safety protocols is how do we take this opportunity to build positivity in all aspects of our business where we can, so, whether it's through products and innovation, some of the new items, so we've been coming out less Ocean Spray Wave, which is a new sparkling beverage with caffeine, or Ocean Spray mentally snacking items that are

taking the joy of dried cranberries and combining them with other cool new proofs to create some special moments for consumers. There's been a lot of talk about how do we take what was last year sort of shocking and disturbing situation, and as we've moved through, you know, it's been a full year, like how do we make that, you know, a situation that's more of a positive experience for people to the best extent that we can well, and I do think about I want to ask you about the

new products in terms of what consumers want. But I do want to ask you about the past year because it has been something where all of a sudden inequities that have been in society for a long time, really we're front and center and we're having discussions that maybe we weren't having before. What is the role do you think of companies and CEOs like yourself and leaders to help, you know, end the conversations or create conversations that result

in deliberate action that actually make a difference. I think with all leaders, you know, they are on top of organizations and leaders leadership teams, so the organization and people that are attached to it, whether they're consumers with the brand, where they're following on you know, uh broadcasts like this,

what leadership are doing. They're all looking up and they're looking for role models to you know, say and do what they expect, you know, good people, and differently than I think in past situations where people might have been slightly more distracted, they're really tuned in that people were focused on the tumbs in front of them or the phones in front of them, and they're they're just aware

of what's happening. I think the moments that leaders have to say, you know, here's what we can do to help the situation versus exacerbate it and bring you calm with insanity back is really what we've tried to do with the company. And I think of order direct is very you know, uh strong group of leaders that have farmers you know, doing this for hundreds of years their families have they see an opportunity to say, look what

we know stability, what it looks like. And you know, team, we expect you to do that and the fortunate position to lead and hopefully bring positivity and you know stability, you know, some some amount of certainty to where there's a lot of uncertainty. Hey, Tom, what's interesting is and I think about like the last year, I mean, companies continue to innovate, they continue to work on their strategies. You guys you know have new products that have come out.

Talked to us about what that development process was like and what's been guiding you know what you the new offerings that you're coming out for consumers. Sure, you know, it's um an interesting environment for sure, because retailers are not as excited about putting new products on the shelf when they don't have consumers as much as they have walking through the stores. It makes it, you know, it's

basis of premium. There's been certainly outages of products, as you're well aware, and so for consumer products, companies making sure that they're really unmarked with what their brands are

going to represent to that consumer. What the insight that you're seeing and what we had benefited from is the Ocean Spray brand, uh, you know, is a hundred years old, nearly ninety years was the last year or ninety harvest and so that, yeah, it's right, and so innovation is against a brand that is well known and consumers find comfort in. It is a space that we took advantage of.

So what we've been doing is trying to move ourselves from not just the Norman Rockwell painting, but to be a little more attached to you know, consumers that are newer consumer seves, millennials and younger consumers. And the way that we do that is to you know, make sure that we're speaking to them in the channels that they want,

but importantly giving them the products they want. So Ocean Spray Wave is a product that is a sparking water is infused with you know, natural caffeine from tea as well as you know, the beautiful flavors that we offer at Ocean Spray and the combinations that we're still known for. So that's one of the things that we saw for sure that that consumers are attracted to having, you know, not only hydration all day, but also they want an

energy pickup. So having an infused beverage that Misso's needs was was certainly first on the radar of The second thing that we just introduced and they have been making a big deal of it actually today is our new Fruit Metal East line. So that's thinking of you know, the dry cranberry or crazing that we have all come to know and love, combining that with other products that bring immunity, fiber, and probiotics to consumers life and so as they are looking for things that can help them

get through this. Certainly immunity blends, fiber blends, probiotics are things that resonate, and having the Ocean Spray brand there as a trust to brand, but also bringing in these new ideas is you know, things that we hope are going to be really successful products for us as we pivot away from UH. Yet you know, sort of our old past, but still embrace the brand that has brought us to the party. Well, and that's what I think.

A lot of brands that have been around for a century, right are trying to figure out how to adapt to the new market. And I think about I was listening to you as you were going through the fruit medley, dried fruit blend products like check check check in terms of you know, fruit. Um, we're talking about no artificial colors, flavors, preservatives. You know, people are increasingly and we talked about this a lot on our air, you know, looking you know,

turning around looking at what's in a product. My teenager does it, Um, this is what people are looking for, and you know, you understand the food industry increasingly, is this where everything's going as much as it can, as much as it can and you call it, I think an important thing that the consumer also wants to know that what they're buying is not only healthy for them, but they're doing good things for you know, the environment

and so forth. So many consumers, uh, you want to make sure that they're buying from a purpose druggling brand. What better purpose than the ocean Spray has, which is to connect our farms or families for a better life. Being in business for ninety years and owned by farmers, are all the profit we make goes back to, you know, seven hundred farmer owners. I mean, there's there's no better purpose duping company in my view, in the business of that.

And then the other thing is, you know, thinking about you know, what are we doing going forward? Is we're not just happy with the fact that, you know, we are owned by farmers, which we love, but what are we going to do to represent what they believe they can do for their future. That's Tom Hayes, the president and CEO of the a Cooperative Ocean Spray and that reps up the weekend edition to Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Thanks for joining us. I'm Terrel Masser and

Tim Sneak. Be sure to tune into our Bloomberg Business Week daily show Monday through Friday. It starts at two pm Walster Time on Bloomberg Radio. You can also watch your daily broadcast on YouTube. Just search Bloomberg Global News and check out to our Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Find that at Bloomberg dot com, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts and That's where you also find our extra podcast this week and recognition of St Patrick's Day, we caught up with the CEO at i d A Ireland,

Martin Shanahan. He oversees Ireland's agency responsible for attracting foreign direct investment. And you can also see me on Bloomberg Quicktake, available at Bloomberg dot com, slash qt and streaming platforms like Roku, Apple TV, Samsung TV and more. Bloomberg Business Week. It's available on newsstands now, at Bloomberg dot com and on the Bloomberg term will have a good week and everyone grabs some motion spray sing, a little bit of Fleetwood, Mac and b safe. This is Bloomberg