Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - June 6th, 2020

In the aftermath of the death of African American George Floyd, protests rising civil unrest. We saw that throughout the week around the nation, reminding us once again of the inequalities that exist in our society. And we looked at it through our Bloomberg Glens right talking with business, nonprofit, public sector leaders and how the divide in our society has economic, business,

market and most importantly societal implications. Well, it's crisis on crisis for sure, and I think one of the things we learned throughout the course of the week and having conversations with CEOs and other leaders, was that you can really separate the two and I think what we have experienced over the past few months is a culmination, a sad culmination in many ways of decades and I think some people would argue centuries of injustice and a lot

of economic elements and economic disparities maybe is a better way to say it, that have been exacerbated over the past few months and really laid bare, and once you see them, it's hard to look away. And there's a lot of hope out there. And we talked about it with a lot of people that maybe this is the moment where we start to make some changes. And one of the voices we all agree that we needed to hear from was John Hopebriant. He's the founder, chairman, and

CEO of a nonprofit Operation Hope. He created that in the aftermath of a riots. He's still working to help the disenfranchised. But he talked to us about reducing inequality, reducing the injustices in the United States. We talked to some other leaders who are dealing not only with this crisis which is right in front of them, but the existing health crisis and the economic crisis that has been born out owing to the pandemic, the coronavirus pandemic. Tim Ryan.

We had a thoughtful conversation with him. I think he's the chair of p WC based up in Boston. He talked to us about not only what he's doing and how he is very methodically and I think very thoughtfully responded to his employees about what happened with George Floyd and the aftermath and the protests there, but also what getting back to work looks like, because that also is important as we start to get some sense of normalcy, even though we know we're never going to be the same.

And one of the folks who's also thinking a lot about that is Candice Lee. She's Vanderbilt University's first female athletic director and she's the first female African American to lead an athletic department in the SEC, a very important conference in the world of sports. So she talked to us about her role in basically caring for her athletes. Yes, so many important conversations. First of that, we want to

take you inside the magazine's cover story. It's on how radical repression is built into the U. S economy and how one fifty years after the Civil War, the color of money is still white. It's a provocative and thoughtful story. Here's more from economics editor Peter Coy. The truth is that the economics profession has had a hard time understanding

race racial discrimination. If you open a standard textbook that will tell you that workers are in the madginal product or the labor I value they provide to the the employer, it would make no sense to do anything else because if you paid somebody less than they were worth, they would go someplace else. Of course, that doesn't really describe the real world where we do see racial discrimination. So economists for decades have been struggling with how to explain it.

And I go through various theories, but come around to the idea that you know, maybe it's nothing more complic Cada than the white power structure paying people less because they can get away with paying people less, and all kinds of other forms of discrimination against African Americans and other racial minorities that just persist decade after decade. So how do we change things, because, as you put in your story, the greatest frustration is that nothing ever seems

to change. I mean, this is not new as you know. You're right, Jason. We talked to um Francis fry At at Harvard, and she said, you know, four years we've been fighting racism, so you know, and even John Hopebrien of Operation Hope, you know, yes, it's terrible what happened to George Floyd, but this shouldn't you know, this happens a lot. So so what do the economists say, Peter, you know, how how do we make a change? What do we need in terms of maybe the new school

of economic thought. I did not write a prescriptive story here, as more of an analy political story, like, let's just I think the first step is to acknowledge it is a problem. Yeah, I think that. I think that that actually is a good first step because there are a lot of white accept at times like this, when it's pretty clear that's something deeply wrong, who will revert to the thinking that I think we pretty much put that

behind us. They may have cordial relations with their neighbors or people down the street or at work who are of other races. They may see the success of people here and there and conclude that the problem is solved. You need to stop and say no, it's not. And until you do that progress will not be made. And that's editor Joel Weber and Economics editor Peter Coy talking about that story in the magazine. I have to say, Carol, I think both you and I when we read it

for the first time, probably stopped in our tracks. Because Peter is a beautiful writer. He's also someone who captures both the science and the art and the emotion effortlessly, and I think reading it and understanding it was a very powerful exercise, no doubt. He wraps up his story saying, Um, these two lines, it just they stuck with me. Whether all that anger will move America forward isn't so clear,

And of course he's talking about the civil unrest. He goes on to say, Peter, that is what's clear is the need for the power structures of economics and business to grapple with life as it's lived, not as a textbook specifies. So, you know, economics and theory it's failing us at this time, and so we need to kind of figure out a different way to really tell the story that we're all living. Really provocative and I highly recommend it's a must read for everyone you're listening to.

Bloomberg Business Week. Coming up, we chat with p WC chair Tim Ryan on how leaders should be thinking about the numerous crises they're facing. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly from Bloomberg Radio. Today we're bringing you some of the most important, we hope informative conversations we had this week

on our daily Bloomberg Business Week radio show. It was a difficult week, but one where we went deep with a lot of people to try and understand not just where we are, but where we may be going next. And Jason, we spoke with Tim Ryan. He's the tour at PwC. He's been having lots of conversations with CEOs

and leaders all around the country. It was a really deep conversation moved and impacted both you and I, and he talked about our world that's being tested on multiple fronts and how we all need to be drivers have changed. I look at it from two perspectives and let me let me start up by saying GTBC, NORMI do we have all the answers, but we look at it from

two perspectives. For the last four years, we've been taking very aggressive steps to improve our inclusion with inside the full walls of p WC, and and it starts at home. We all be better and we need to be better, and myself and over a thousand executives who are part of CEO Actions for diversity Inclusion, we have committed to make our organizations better, safer, more aware, and more understanding. But as you point out or asking your question, policy

making also plays an important part. The reality is that we need more thoughtful policy at the city, state, and federal level to make sure that we get some we get at some of the more important parts or equally important parts around inclusion if we're to get to a better performance at a sustaind level. So, for example, we think about the economic inequalities that exists in our country. Policy the policy making plays an important role there as well.

You know, it's interesting tempted to hear your response to the to the first question because it does feel like we're in a different moment where I dare say, and this is no judgment on any of your predecessors or any predecessors of current ceo is, but I have a hard time believing that in a previous generation of leaders, it would be almost acceptable in some ways for a leader of your stature to personally respond to all of

those things. Do you feel like you bear more of a responsibility to show a level of transparency and I dare say authenticity to a broader spectrum of people. Yeah, it's a it's a fair question. I am. I certainly sincerely believe I have a responsibility to the fifty five people who trust me with their leadership than that. That is very personal to me. I was speaking with somebody

over the weekend, or many many people. In one conversation, I asked us, do you think everybody's getting three thousand emails? And I honestly don't know the answer. What I am proud of is the culture is that people expect to have immediate access at PBC to the top and I and I take that responsibility very seriously. I think some of it's a sign of times. I think some of

it is the culture of the organization. And when I look at those three thousand emails and over and and I'm behind today to be clear, because it's the message out today. But I think part part of it is many thousands just saying thank you, thank you. I shot a video on Friday morning and saying how sick I was.

Part of it is thank you for the commitment and leadership, but hundreds were here are suggestions and and and we're going through them like we to think that in in a world where leadership is looked up to, we don't have all the answers. And I think part of it is Part of it is we need to get it at all levels in an organization. One of our black associates I spoke to today, he has three years experience

with us. He was both um, he was both excited but also angry that society is not making more progress, is it, Tim, You need to listen to not only the views of partners and people in the middle and leadership pills, you need to listen to our views as well. I think it's I think it's incredibly important that we do that. I think today more than ever, well, you know, going back to oh Man, you just kind of chills

my spine. We spoke with John Hopebryant Um Sherman and cy of of UM Hope and what's interesting is he said he was talking to a lot of young people, Tim, who said, you know, because everybody's like please, you know, looting doesn't solve anything. But these young people said to him, listen, you get to be you have a seat at the table. You know you're in the room where it all happens. You go to the White House, you talked to c eos.

For us, our voices aren't heard unless we take these drastic actions, and we need to figure out a way to make sure everyone is heard. And Tim, I feel like we have a lot of conversations about this and yet nothing happens. Yeah, I think, I think, Um, it is really important for us to understand to our black and brown citizens of the United States, what happened last day is not new. What happened in Central Park is not new. Too many. It feels new because we start

on a video, but it is not new. And as I speak with and I'm not black, I cannot say I've walked in people's shoes, but as I've listened to hundreds, what they will tell you is that this is not new. And four years ago we had shootings in Dallas, we had violence in Louisville, two years ago we had volunced in Charlottesville. We have it again. And it's incumbent on people in my role and other roles to say enough is enough, and we're going to fix it, and we

have to work together to do that. So, Tim, I want to talk about the return to work, except one more question for you about sort of where we are at this particular moment having to do with protests. You've got curfews happening at major cities around the country, including here in the Tri State area, and I do wonder how do you balance sort of the safety of your employees with the notion that you want them to be

able to express themselves at times like this. Yeah, we encourage Jarre people to make sure their point of view is heard, and protesting is an important part of expressing ourselves. We obviously want to make sure they're safe as well, so we've encouraged people to do that and use the best judgment, and cities where we have had protests, we've used are YU wanted security team to make sure we're

checking out on people that they're safe. If we've had a few instances, we simply had to move people because they were in very closely affected areas. But freedom of speech and the ability to get your views heard both internally within the firm and outside is something that we

think is really important. Obviously, we wanted to be peaceful, we want our people to be safe, but getting our emotions out and getting our feelings out is important, and the numbers really speak to the importance of getting those views out and having voices heard. So it is a very important part of our nation and the freedom to get your view out there and and something we're supportive of. That's Tim Ryan. He's a char at p WC. And

that's just scratching the surface Jason. For a full interview, be sure to check out the Business Week Extra podcast. We talked about how work will not look like the way it was twelve to thirteen weeks ago, and certainly

not the way it's done today. We really went a lot of places with him well, and it was interesting to hear his very personal response and the way that he is engaging with his employees, even from a remote basis, on how they're feeling, how they're doing, how their work is going to be different, because you can't really separate all of these different things, all of these crises that we're facing. Its impacting who we are, how we work, and who we want to be. You're listening to Bloomberg

Week Coming Up Checkers CEO Francis Alan. She tells us how the restaurant industry is forever changed name CEO of Checkers and Rallies. In February began her job working from home. You'll hear her story. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly from Bloomberg Radio. We'll bring you some of the most important and formative conversations we had on our daily radio show

throughout the week. Um of course, much of it on the news about the civic unrest that we've seen in the last week, but we're also still dealing with the virus and industries trying to come back. Karl, we caught up with Francis Alan. This was a conversation I was looking forward to in part because these are restaurants that I have frequented throughout my life. She's the CEO of

Checkers and Rally's. Those are drive through restaurants. These are restaurants that have actually done okay through the pandemic, and she gave us a window into the restaurant industry how it will never be the same post pandemic. It's really been so rewarding to UH to work through this crisis with with such a dedicated and resilient team of people. There's always a silver aligning right and in every crisis, and I think, uh, you know, usually it brings out

the best of people. And I can certainly say that that's true for the Checks and Raleigh's whole organization. UM. For that, I'll start with the safety. Obviously, when when we put a taskforce together to create a response plan, we had two priorities. The first priority was the safety of our guests and our employees, and the second was really to keep our restaurants open so we can continue

to employ our team members and feed our guests. So UM incredibly proud of the of the operations team we actually as as well as complying with all of the CDC mandates both individual, state and local government requirements, we've actually put in fifteen new contact less experiences to protect our employees and our guess, everything from UM plexigoth areas at the windows, UM cashiers with color coded gloves for handling payments, UM praise for handling payments, Infrared thermometers obviously.

Fortunately you already did fifteen minute hand washing, so UM, you know, we already had a very high standard of cleanness. UM. You know, cup refills, We've always refilled people's cups. But now we'll still do that, but we'll give you a fresh cup. So a ton of new UM procedures at the restaurant sanitation obviously to keep people safe, on people and labor UM. You know, obviously at first priority as the employees who show up for work every day, and I'm so proud of them and what they've done and

how they kept going. We're fortunate in that we have not had to lay off anybody. We did follow some people at this corporate office, but we were able to bring them back after thirty days. But we've been looking after our team members with sickly with closure pay if if the restaurant has to close, and we've also instigated a thank you pay for those restaurant team members that that have UM stayed with us through throughout their s virus UM. I'm very proud to say we also have

a an employee relief fund. It was actually established in thousands five following the days of Hurricane Katrina, and has provided more than five hundred thousand dollars and assistant to about six hundred employees and their families. And we've expanded that to UM to obviously include anybody that can't work due to Corona related issues. So a lot of a lot of work put together to for our people, keep

our guests and our employees safe. And then of course all the marketing shifts that that we need to needed to make, so shifting really into free delivery, meal bundles, um, social media and UH and just trying to stay very nimble and flexible. And that's for instance, Allen CEO of Checkers and Rallies drive in And as you pointed out earlier in the show, this is someone who had as a rich, deep experience in this business. But she basically has like been to headquarters a couple of times, but

she doesn't really work there yet. She's been working from her home in Colorado, managing this massive enterprise remotely and thinking about a lot of health and safety issues as she thinks about reopening. Well, her perspective is an important one, Jason, qus are quick service restaurants, right, She has worked. She was CEO of Boston Market, president of Jack in the Box, also senior positions at Denny's dunkin Donuts USA. So when we want to understand this segment of the restaurant industry,

she's really a great person to get some insight. One of the takeaways more blurring a fast casual and drive through restaurants, and she said, you know what, you're gonna love this, Jason, get ready for more comfort food on the menu. I know. That was actually really good to hear. I basically was like, well, what about healthy things? And she said, you know what, that's not exactly what people want and I should correct that. The guy said a few minutes ago, it really isn't about reopening for her,

It's it's more the idea they never really closed. How do they adjust going forward and how does the industry around them adjust? That was a really important takeaway too. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week coming up the role of sports in the age of COVID nineteen. An wonderful

interview we caught up with Candice Lee. She is the first female athletic director at Vanderbilt University, also first African American woman to have an SEC athletic program, and I gotta tell you, she says, we all missed sports and she's getting ready to try and open up. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly from Bloomberg Radio. They were bringing you some of the most important and we hope informative conversations we

had on our daily Bloomberg Business Week radio show. It was a week where I felt like everyday, Carol, we were trying to get our heads around what was happening in the news that day, knowing that what's happening now is going to have a profound effect on where we are in the coming months and years. And then includes an interview with Candice Lee Jason. She's Genderbilt University's first

female athletic director. What's interesting is when we booked her, we thought, Okay, we're gonna talk about what's going on, you know in terms of sports at the college level. You know, how do you you know, run a program? Uh in a world of COVID nineteen And then of course that conversation was impacted as well by the news out of Minneapolis and the death of George Floyd oh Man. Um I thought, what and what what a tragedy that could have been and shouldn't have been avoided? And um

it was heartbreaking. It was very difficult to watch. I will admit that I have not been able to watch all. I know it's seven or eight minutes long. I have not made it through that entire video. I mean I've seen I've seen clips, and um it's traumatizing. So I would say that, UM. I mean my reaction was the reaction of I think so many of us that um it was necessary. It was unnecessary. And Candice, you know you have a responsibility as so many do to you know,

young people who are ultimately in your care. You know you were catching them at an incredibly important and informative age. How do you take what's going on in the country and you think about your role being as important as it ever was, more important maybe than it ever was. As as you think about the the young folks that that you're trying to to counsel through all of this. We're all thinking about it as parents, I know, and obviously you see it through a different lens than I do.

I like how you phrased the question, because you're right then, um it is it is the care of our student

athletes that is our priority. And I think that in some ways, you know, you feel helpless when you see a situation like this and you you start wrapping your brain and you it stirs up a lot of emotions, and then I start thinking about how not that I have a ton of experience, but if you if you imagine being a college student and trying to process that and make sense of it, how intimidating and overwhelming that must be. And I think the thing that we have

to do is just start with transparency and opthenticity. Those are the things I talked with our student athletes about UM over the weekend, and same with our staff. You know, it's a it's a chance to to really be vulnerable

and wrestle with this together. I don't have all the answers, and I'm real clear about that, but I do want our student athletes to understand that we can provide them with a safe space to explore how they're feeling, and we want to equip them with I mean, it's it's it's hard to make sense of something that's just tragic.

It's hard to make sense of that. But what I hope is that our student athletes will feel like they can make a difference, Like if they're convicted about this topic or anything that they're passionate about, that they'll use their plans for them to really affect change and do it in a healthy way. The thing I think that many of us wrestle with, for many people wrestle with when you're just so heartbroken over something and it's hard

to understand why people do certain things. How can you mobilize people to want to make a change, but but not be so frustrated that you paralyzed or you know, not have a hard heart and and and that's um I think that's a challenge for all of us. But I know that's a challenge when you're eighteen, nineteen, twenty years old, and and you know, it's a privilege to be able to be with with with folks when they're

developing their ideas and they're building a foundation. But it's also a huge responsibility, you know, because they looked to us. You talked about the care, they looked us for that guidance. We want to pivot, uh to your plans at Vanderbilt. But I have one last question, and I do wonder Candice, what you think is the role and responsibility of of sports professional or collegiate in terms of being an agent

for change. Well, I think when you when you look at the athletics platform, um I saw I actually saw a tweet yesterday that and I'm sure I'm sure you all saw this or other people are saying something similar, but it talked about if the world would treat each other the way people treat each other in a locker room, where they're folks from all walks of life and um

different perspectives, what they're working towards a common goal. And that really struck me because I think that when you when you look at athletics and you get on a team, I don't know that people are focused on race or geographical area or sexual orientation, or they're they're working together to try to win right there, competing on the same team with a common goal. And when I think about

that and all the opportunities that have been created. Now, don't get me wrong, athletics has not been perfect in this space, so I'm I'm certainly not saying that, but I do think that given the great widespread interests that there is an athletics and the way that it allows you to cheer for the same thing without regard to those things that that that make us different, then I think it's kind of a natural thing to look at athletics in terms of leadership when it comes to opportunities

and and to this equality and fairness, because that's what sport is. Sport is about fairness and and and I I think you've got to be careful here because I know that that doesn't mean that every athlete as a social activist. I understand that. But the fact that sports is something that ties a lot of us together and brings people to common spaces and allows them to interact where these same people might not might not be together if if it were not for a football game or

soccer match. And I think that that shows us that sport has the ability to be far reaching. So I think with that there's expectations, right that maybe you can change people's minds or you can raise awareness about something. Well. In Canadice, for all of those reasons that you just described, we are so collectively interested in seeing sports come back,

especially college sports come back. I grew up down South, have a lot of friends who went to Vanderbilt and other SEC schools, and there is nothing I don't have to tell you. There is nothing like SEC sports and there's nothing like SEC college football. What's right? What's your best guess for for what we see this fall? I've been really intentional about about not trying to guess. I'll tell you that we're preparing to come back in the fall as scheduled. And and I'm and I'm not trying

to dodge your question. I think the reality is that this pandemic has taught us that um, as much as we think we're in control of things, we're very vulnerable and and and that's humbling, especially in athletics, because you know, we're we're very focused, we're very regiment we're very structured, and and I think there's a lot of humility that comes with knowing that you really don't know what the future holes. Having said that, I was on a call

earlier today and the point was made. I had not thought about this, But you know, we've been in this mode for you know, roughly ninety days. We still have a decent amount of time before we have to play our first football game, and and and time is is really important here because with each passing day and with each passing week, we learn a little bit more and with more data, you know, you feel armed to make better decisions. And I think that all of us desperately

want sports back. It's a rallying cry. It ties communities together. We all we all want something to cheer for, we all want to feel united, and sports is a great way to do that. And I just think we just have to be diligent about trying to resume activity in the safest way possible. You know, that's part of the care for the student athletes that you all were talking about earlier. That's part of it, right, It's fundamental their health and safety and the health and safety of our community.

So and um, it's challenging, right sure, well, and and Candice, it also feels like one of the challenges is going to be protecting so many of the sports beyond college football, given the economic headwinds that UH that athletic departments are

going to face. I have to think you're thinking about that as well, given the upside down world we're living in potentially, And I'm not asking you to guess about this, you know, if we have you know, spectator list games, how are you sort of thinking about different ways that you can ensure that many uh cauge college athletes still get a chance to to play at a time when a lot of schools are canceling pro grams. You're right, we're very, very dependent on the revenue that's tied to football.

There's no question about that. There's no debating that. You have to look at each individual situation in terms of like how much a particular athletics department depends on revenue that's tied to tickets or concessions or you know, it varies by institution. What doesn't vary, though, is that we all need football. We all we all needed to. It's the financial engine that drives everything, you know, and that's

that's just the way that it's structured. That's Vanderbilt University's first female athletic director, first African American woman to had an SEC athletic program, Candice Lee. I gotta say I'm a big fan already. Yeah, the Commodores, man. I mean, it's a really interesting school. It's obviously a very prestigious university. Plays an important role there in Nashville and in the South. And you know, as you said earlier in the show, you know we caught her at an interesting moment. You know,

we went into this conversation. I think when we originally had it on our calendar, is thinking, okay, cool, we're going to talk about what college football is going to be like in the role of student athletes, and you know, I think that we're reminded every day of the interconnectedness of so many things. And you know, having truly a trailblazer in Kandice League take over that role at this

moment provided us some fascinating insights. And I've got to say, bottom line, they are preparing to come back in the fall. And then she also really stressed the importance the role of sports at times of division, So that really stayed with me. All Right, that wraps up the first hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio.

I'm Jason Kelly and I'm Carol mass are plenty coming up in our next hour, we're gonna continue to explore the political and economic aftermath of the civil unrest that we're seeing in our country. Right now, we're going to hear from John Hope Bryant. He's a guest we really wanted to speak to because of the work that he's doing with Operation Hope. We also take you to Topeka, Kansas. We talked to the mayor there. Her personal story is incredible and the insights that she has on the ground

about the protest, but also the coronavirus. They are riveting. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Hello, I'm Carol Masser and I'm Jason Kelly. Today we're bringing you some of the most important, we hope informative conversations we had on our daily Bloomberg Business

Week radio show. Wide ranging conversations, serious conversations, Carol, in many ways, and we hope thoughtful, you know, trying to explore with people where we are at this moment through candidly the Bloomberg lens. We're talking about economics, we're talking about business, We're talking about leadership in many ways as the country and we as not just humans, but we as business people try and get our arms around where

we are and where we should go next. And Jason, the cover story in the magazine really deep dive into the unrest and what's being impacted. Again, like you said, everything is connected business, economic, society, the market, and we use that in terms of all of our conversations this week, and that included one with Edelman founder and CEO Richard Edelman. He reminded us businesses, they are our own best hope.

You can't be anti capitalism right now, Companies can make decisions with money and how they spend it to really bring about some significant change. And I think if there's a through line for this hour of the show, that's really it that money and leadership are at the core of all of this. We heard from Frances Fry she was, I'm going to say, one of our favorite interviews of

the week. She's a professor at Harvard Business School. She's got a new book that's called Unleashed, and really what it's about is looking at leadership from a completely different perspective, in a word, accountability, right and she did it while looking at the companies of Uber and we work specifically changing those toxic cultures for the better. And Carol Economics is that the core of the argument made by John Hope Bryant. He's the founder, chairman, and CEO of Operation

Hope down in Atlanta. He gave us a little bit of a history lesson, but also some very specific steps we need to be thinking about when it comes to being different on the other side of this consciousness, it's like a rubber band that has expanded, you know, it never returns to its original side. First of all, thank you and your colleagues for all that you do than for being a light on the heel in a moment

of darkness. The media is playing an outsize role in our consciousness these days because some of our national leaders are not stepping up in a way that it's holistic, that's bridge building, that's bringing us together, that's providing a light and a way forward. So thank you guys for doing that. You know, you know, a rubber band has expanded, doesn't return as it was original size. It's forever extended.

And so when things like this happened, you you stop having black people saying I feel discriminated against and white people saying I have no idea what you're talking about. As Will Smith said, the racism didn't did not get discovered, it got filmed. And now when something like this happens, it just becomes undeniable. It's like that people of good will, which are most people, just go, that's just that's just ridiculous,

Like that's that's disgusting that we can't. We can't, that's not that, that's not our nation, that's not you know what if that's my child and we started having a week conversation and not a Medu conversation and then he began to do something about it. I over the weekend, I've had a problem with the looting, and operage was founded in the after the Rhine King rides in, so this strikes me very close to home. Um were the largest what we do in the country because we responded

differently to the riot. After it was over, he decided to respond, not react. But this rioting and the looting of that continues. We will destroy the moral authority that George Floyd's gave us. To honor his legacy. I was, you know, talking to some young people, and they said, John, you get to be at the table. You know you you get to talk to people, you get to do media, you get to go to the White House, you get to go go you know, CEOs offices. And they listened

to you. We've been listen. We've been talking. My my grandfather was talking, my father has been talking, and I'm talking. They don't listen to us. No one listens to us until we tear some stuff up. So he said, look, we don't want to tear stuff up. It's primarily not us tearing stuff up. We've been infiltrated, so and so forth. But what stuff gets torn up people are actually listening

to us. So now we can handle the time back to you to go talk for us in these board rooms and and hopefully cut a deal to get me an internship to stop the poverty, sto increase the peace, and Greece of legislation to get us some fairness. And I think that goes back to that Dctor King quote. He said the violence is the language of the unseen, and they unheard. Dr King wasn't endorsing violence, he was

acknowledging the pain. Well, and jentlemen, I'm glad you brought up Dr King because you're there in Atlanta, and I think a lot of us saw your mayor, and I'm from Atlanta, as you know, and so I was paying very close attention, even close for attention to it. The legacy of Dr King and the legacy of so many others, whether it's former mayor and de Young, whether it's obviously Congressman Lewis, and so many others like you who are down there in Atlanta, which has again such a rich

legacy here. What have you learned and what are we learning there that maybe we can taken in a broader sense because mayor Bottoms, you know, spoke so passionately about the that legacy, and I wonder how that translates, especially to a business audience. Yeah, so that's a very good question. I think that this goes back, you know, by the way things are calming down here where things are popping off and heating up other places. We're starting to transition

a bit here. And I think it's part in part because the mayor, who's a black woman, said stop saluting like you're not honoring our legacy. This is ridiculous. She she behaved like a parent, and a lot of our national leaders are not behaving my good parents. Then you've had corporate leaders step up, and that's Operation Hope founder John Hope Bryant. Of the many favorite conversations we had this week, I have to say that one stood abou in part because we found ourselves. I think it's safe

to say both of us. Carol quoting him back to other people throughout the gross. I sent him an email late in the week basically saying that this notion that this is a crisis of poverty, this is a crisis of economics that we're facing. It's structural, it's not new it's literally hundreds of years old, and we have to face that if we're going to do anything about it. Well, he's so right, and he said, what happened with George Floyd. Yes,

obviously upsetting, obviously wrong. We know that, but it's not new. And he did say for companies, for leaders, you have to reimagine your budget. Where are you spending your ad dollars, Where are you putting, you know, efforts into internships, where are they going? And you need to think about the broader population. You need to think about the minority population if you really want to bring about some changes because as you said, and as he said, this is about poverty,

it's about economics. That's how you make changes. And it's interesting later on in the show, we're gonna hear echoes of that when we hear from Richard Edelman, because he talks about the specific steps that he's going to take at his company, and you have to get down to brass tacks to really understand where we move forward. And that's part of the conversation we're going to have next with the mayor of Topeka, Kansas, Michelle de la Isla, on how her city is dealing with unrest and inequality.

This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with

Carol Masser and Jason Kelly from Bloomberg Radio. Jason, a lot of our conversations revolved around the protests that have been happening in cities across the country this week, and that included in Tobecca, Kansas, and we caught up with the mayor of Topeka, Kansas, Michelle de la Isla, who talked about the support she has given to the protesters and you know, talked about some of the division that we're seeing right now in her city as well as

across the country. I loved her story. It's a very personal one and it's a reminder that mayors, they are on the front lines, and they are human beings and they are citizens. Ultimately, the stories that she told us

really emphasized is that check this conversation out. Let's start with the history of the city as the city of Topeka is the home of brown Bie Board and I I think it's one of the things that I'm extremely proud of and have seen our citizens speak up very loudly about the injustices that we have been seeing in our nation. Occur UM with regards to African Americans being spotted UM not only by by the hands of regular citizens, but also by a scene the death of George Floyd

UH that has left our community completely heartbroken. I think I shared a few days ago. I think it was last week. The days become hours and and and years, you know, But I remember after seeing those events I shared with my community that I just cried myself to sleep.

UM A Modobrey, Brianna Taylor, UM, George Floyd are just three of the examples of so many things that have happened in our community that I know also well because as soon as I became elected, we had UM the fatal shooting of a young man called dominiqu White UM who later on was found to have a firearm on him, but regardless, it was the death of a young man who happened to be African American. And and we had our Caucasian officers in that situation in our community all

too well. Understands our community having an outcry and and asking for action UM. And it's been beautiful to see that the work that we have done in our community since then, UM has started creating a positive ripple effect as part of the protests that we've had in our community have been extremely peaceful with police involvement, so much so that I was privileged to bend my knee with my police chief side by side and having our police officers,

UM support a lot of the rallies that we've been having. However, we also had just Monday, UM, one of our peaceful protests have a secondary protest that became violent. So the same thing that is happening in the nation is happening here in Topeka, Kansas. So I read, UM, I was reading some press coverage of what's been going on in your in your city, and I believe something you said was I think that people have a lot of anger. There's a lot of pent up frustration in regard to

the inequities that we've been having in this country. So the anger and the injustices we know mayor Delisa is not They're not new, right, So how do we take this and how do we take this and turn it into actions that make a difference, really make a difference. I mean, Brown v Board is what over sixty years ago, over sixty UM. I think that first of the things, the first thing that we need to do is to

be comfortable with having uncomfortable conversations. UM. I think that a lot of families and a lot of individuals, especially are our Caucasian brothers and sisters, are very uncomfortable talking not about the gory of how our nation started. But we also will always want to focus on the glory, right um. And when I talk to groups and I talked about inclusion, I always talk about how, yes, our country was built on the premise of liberty and um,

freedom of expression and freedom of worship. However, in that same breath, people stopped and picked up my great great great great grandmother in Africa and decided to make our slaves based on the color of our skin. And we have never talked about those inequities that have been happening.

And if we really want to see change, we need to start creating conversations and spaces in which we could talk about the origins of our country, the fact that we instill slavery just based on the color of skins of individuals, that we have deprived individuals from having access

to success, and that still continues in these systems. But most importantly, once we have those real conversations, we have to follow them up by having people elected that can really make a change in these policies and making sure that people who feel this en franchise actually vote. Um, it's imperative because we wouldn't be able to have these conversations if we wouldn't have people in office. Then now are able to have these conversations about wanting to hide

from them. And if we want to see change, it has to start at the polls. It has to start with us being on board decisions, with voting and with being engaged. So what have you seen over the last few days in in any sort of change in tone or change in rhetoric that that either gives you hope or you know, maybe it gives you a little bit of pessimism. I'm guessing you're going to lean towards hope, just based on a little bit of the of your tone and some of the things I've I've seen you say,

mayor so here is some some examples of hope. When I first got elected that we had in our laps, the loss of Domini, wife's uh life. Um, we were we were scared about having conversations on race. We were scared about standing up and saying hey, we we don't quite understand, because I can tell you as a woman of color, um, I do still have the sticker shock of walking into boardrooms were not the only person that I'm the only female and the only person of color,

sometimes in a position of leadership. But in my condition, the only bad experience that I had what a police officer was when my son UM, who has some severe persistent mental illness, was pulling his seatbelt off. And that was at the time before I was mayor or a person known in the community, driving a beat of Taurus with two kids in the back, and he pulled the seatbelt.

And when I went to explain to the officer that I didn't have my seatbelt because I was doing the mama drive of telling my kid, get your seatbell and I get stopped right, and instead of me having an opportunity to have any legal representation, I was told, hey, uh, just say Nola Contendra when you're in front of the judge and it'll be fine. Um. So that's my only

bad experience that I ever had. So I thought that's as worse as it gets, right, and all of us that in in seventeen I get immersed into this whole different perspective of what black men and women are dealing within their communities. Why other individuals who are social economically disadvantage we're dealing within our communities. And it was a state of shock. And that's Topeka Mayor Michelle de la Isla a very important and I think strong voice in

all of this. A reminder again that mayors they are dealing with all aspects of this. And hearing her talk about not just her personal experience in interactions with the police, but also the work that she's doing around the virus and helping to understand the front line of that battle as well. I really took a lot from this conversation. Well, she reminded us Jason that brown v board right over sixty five years ago happened in Topeka, right so that

they have been dealing with injustices and equality. You know, it's just in the fabric of that city. What I loved about what she had to say is you have to get comfortable about being uncomfortable, and you need to talk about the origins of our country to really understand what's going on and to bring about change. That they stayed with me. You're listening to Bloomberg Bus Week coming up.

Richard Edelman. He talks to us about what he's hearing from c e O s and what he's telling his own employees about both of the major crises we're facing, COVID and it's aftermath, but also the death of George Floyd and what it means as leaders re examine what companies they want to lead. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly

from Bloomberg Radio. Today we're bring you some of the most important, we hope informative conversations we had on our Bloomberg Business Week radio show. We're here every day two pm to six pm Wall Street Time, and a complicated week to say the least, Carol, a troubling week, but we brought I think some interesting conversations to bear as

we all try and move forward. Well yeah, I mean, Jason, Companies right um having their hands full back to back crises, first the virus and now the civil unrest that's really shutting down cities again in reaction to the death of George Floyd. Richard Edelman is someone who is in constant

communication with corporate leaders, really all leaders. He is the founder and CEO of the Global Communications from Edelman, and he talked to us about what needs to change in the corporate community in order to really bring about change and get to those inequalities in our society. What happened is that, UM, this is more global. It's also more cross industries than we expected, UM into cars, energy, UM. And then on top of that, we had one major

account shift and then it happens in our business. UM. But you know, we still have people around the world, and UM, we are going to run our business and break even for the next period of time because I want to keep as many people as we can and we're a family business, so we can do that well. And Richard, I have to say in Caroline, I've been talking about it sort of off air as we've been prepping for this, you know, and I don't often do this, but you know, kudos to you for for owning it.

I mean, this is it's a tough time and I do think that, and I think that that leads us right into to the next thing we want to talk to you about, which is we seem to be at

a moment. We talked a little bit about this last time, but I feel like it's become much sharper or coming to much sharper relief, which is leaders really need to speak to their own employees and speak to the public even more candidly and even more forthrightly, not just about their own businesses, but about the issues of the day and civil unrest and what it means and the deep injustices,

UH and inequality that we're seeing here. Tell us about the conversations first you're having internally, and then maybe expand to some of the folks that that you're talking to. As Carol said that the leaders in the world, Well, on Friday, we had our community of people who are of color on the phone and when your man was talking about how he had been apprehended and by police and unfairly and another you know African American woman has brothers and she wonders whether they're going to come home

at night, and you know, it's just surreal. UM And and I've made a commitment for Edelman that we're going to UM offer money for anybody who's a person who interested vice president of to go on boards of local NGOs UM that are actually serving in distress communities. I think that's important and also We're going to double our purchases from UM minority owned small business because again, I want to get people back to work. I think that's the key point in all of this. We can't have

this be an anti capitalism moment. You know, the idea of community versus capitalism is such a false choice. And I want people to recognize that business is the best hope here, not government UM and that UM. If we can get stores and communities and training centers and and and and help people, you know, get skills, then then

we're going to really be much better off. This mirror is exactly what John Hope Bryant said to us that Operation Hope, and he said, ultimately is you need to have companies, you know, speak with their with their money, with their dollars, what they decided to spend money on, whether it's minority owned businesses, you know, as part of their supply chain, whether it's creating internships that provide jobs for minorities. He said, you know, this is a poverty problem,

and that's how you, you know, Richard, ultimately fix it. Well, Carol, I love the idea of also recruiting at junior colleges, primarily black colleges, you know, we can't just have the same universities be our feeders. And over time, UM, we're going to be a majority minority country and that's who should be the workforce. And we need to push and use this moment as a wake up UM too to get to get action. And the CEO, as I'm talking to a totally on this, they want to UM, they

want to be part of the solution. They feel deeply moved by what happened last week. They're disgusted by the murder of that young man and it's unacceptable, but they want to fix the underlying problems of sickness and obesity and ill health and like this. That's Edelman founder and CEO, Richard Edelman, and god, I really feel like, first of all, Jason, we talked to him because he had to let workers go as well after making some promises back in March

that he didn't expect to do that. So he's dealing with all of this on a personal level as well, and the responsibility of running a firm and kind of keeping it going and what's going to be possibly you know, tougher economic times. But also got into you know, the commitment of global leaders, what they need to be doing right now to bring about change, especially when we've got such a divided country. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week.

Coming up Harvard Busines of School professor Frances Fry. She's very popular at the school. She's got a new book out. It's called Unleashed, The Unapologetic Leader's Guide to empowering everyone around you. She was brought in to fix uber and we works toxic cultures. Man, I could have talked to her for hours. Oh, you're gonna love this conversation because you just get a sense of she's got some stories. This is Blipper. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with

Carol Masser and Jason Kelly from Bloomberg Radio. So Jason will bring you some of the most important and informative conversations we had throughout the week. We continue to talk, of course about the big story, the virus and you know,

companies reopening, the economy reopening. But again, of course, all of that was overshadowed by the civic unrest that we saw in the country, um in major cities in the aftermath of the killing of George Floyd Well, and it's putting leaders on the front foot and leaders in the spotlight. So we turned into Harvard Business School professor Francis Fry.

This is one of these conversations. Full confession that when we finished talking to her after fifteen or twenty minutes, I thought, no, no, no, no, no, don't keep going. Don't go. She's got a new book. It's called Unleashed, The Unapologetic Leader's Guide to Empowering Everyone around You. The lessons they are not obvious in many ways, and they are drawn on some pretty amazing experiences she has had. Personally. She is not an Ivory Tower type. She's been in

the trenches. And when I say trenches, we're talking uber and we work. I think that there are great leaders and then there are people that are not very good leaders. I think leadership can be taught. So for those that for those leaders that aren't doing a good job, if they have the desire to get better, we can teach them. If they don't have the desire to get better, I wish for them to step aside. How do you teach them?

Because these are these are tough people who are often in positions where they are and you have run into some of them very directly, who are very confident and they know where they're going. I just finished listening to a six part podcast on we Work, and you know more about that story, uh than I do. But but I do wonder how do you break through to two people or there's some who just can't be broken through. Well, I find that if you can break through, it's usually

either through emotion or logic. And the lesson to be learned is that if someone is if someone is like at an emotional level, no amount of logic is going to penetrate. And if someone is at a logical level, no amount of motion is going to penetrate. So you have to see where they are and then bring either the moral or the rational argument to them. Um, I will tell you in my lifetime, I have met very

few people that uh didn't want to improve. Well so, so okay, so take us back to you are hired your tap to be Uber's first senior VP of Leadership and Strategy, curious about the conversations to get you there, and then you walk in the and then you walk in the door, and then what so just take us back there. Yeah. So I was asked to go by a former student to go and meet with the then CEO Travis kalmick Um, And my first reaction was no, because I, like everyone else, had read the newspaper and said,

I only like to help good people win. This does not seem like a good person. So no. And the student was said, UM, I think he's a very good person. I think he's out of his depth on parts of the job. Will you do me a favor and come meet with him? And so I flew out to California. I was planning to meet with him for an hour, and I stayed for three days um talking with him and realized that this was a person who was last job, he had led eight people, this company had gone through

hyper growth. It now had between ten and fifteen thousand people. So he totally needed help and leadership. But you know how I knew that. He said, I totally need help on leadership, and then on the strategy part. You know, he's like a mad genius in his mind, but it wasn't getting out into the minds of everyone in the organization. And so he asked me to help strategy, at least in so far as we could communicate it so that everyone was going off the same script. And then he said,

you have full license to do what's ever necessary. That was my conversation with him. And then I went and met with a lot of employees, thought a lot of them. I think I interacted with about fift employees before I said yes, because I only like to help good people win. And if I didn't have the sense that this was overwhelmingly good people, I could never have gone to the organization. And I have to say it was overwhelmingly good people. And you walked out of there feeling the same way.

Oh yeah, So you know, nine months later, the culture was completely turned around. Everything that you've read about in the culture back in two thousand and seventeen. None of that could happen today, like just literally none of it. And we had it. We had it. None of it could have happened within nine months. Um, And we've taught, We've brought in the largest executive education program I think ever into a company. UM, And I've never met such

willing learners. I love this notion that you talked about in the book, which is in in some ways turning leadership on its head, or at least broadening there, widening the aperture a bit, because I think we we think so much about you know I'm the leader, I'm the decider, and you know it needs to be about me and I need to sort of have this command and control. And you make a different argument. I think help us

understand your sort of rubric I guess for thinking about leadership. Yeah, and I do make I think the exact opposite argument. So you're exactly right. No, as what you were saying, oh good, okay, I was like, wow, I really misunderstood what you're saying. No, no, no, no, I was giving sorry you couldn't see me. I was nodding vigorously. So leadership is about making other people better, Like leadership fundamentally

is about other people. And so the mistake that some people make is that they think their job is to be leaderly. And it's like they have a mirror in their office and they keep looking in their mirror to see how they're doing. And you should really put a window in your office because you should be spending all of your time seeing how other people are doing. And a job of a leader is to make others better in there as a result of their presence and into

their absence. And so I do think that it does really turn around what leadership is because it's not about the leaders. In fact, our first chapter is called It's not about You? So how do you do that? Like? What does that look like in practice? When I walk into a meeting if the most interesting person in the room to me is me and I'm happiest when everyone

else is looking at me. But if when I walk into a room, the most important people to me are everyone else in the room and my helping to set them up for success, and I will be looking super curiously and with all of my attention of how can I make you better? Like what are the obstacles in the way, how can I get you to reach higher? How can I get you to develop more skills to do a better job. So it's really it's not self distracted,

it's other distracted. We're just like sitting with this. Jason and I are looking at each other because this is pretty powerful, Um, you know, apply it. And I wonder, how are you looking at what what you're saying right now and what you've just written in this book With what's going on in the world and what's been going on in the world for the last three months, the virus first of all, and what's been kind of put front and center once again, those things that ail our society.

We knew that they were there, but you know, we're being confronted with it. And then certainly what happened with George Floyd in Minneapolis. Yeah, so I'll start with George Floyd. Uh that which is you know, our kind tree has been grappling with issues of race for I don't know, close to four hundred years, and we've never dealt with them. And UM, I think that everyone probably because we're all in COVID together and we're all breathing the same breath.

Everyone witnessed it seems at the same time the death of a man because of the color of his skin, and this time it has sparked collective reckoning um and feels like at least the first moment in my life where we might be willing to change. Um. But what we know about change is you have to do three things. If you're going to change. You have to honor the past. We've never done that regarding race. You have to have a clear and compelling change mandate. We have that right now.

And you have to have a rigorous and optimistic way forward. And so I think great leaders will honor the past and we'll have an optimistic, a rigorous and optimistic way forward and the same thing. And that's like point lead

for George Floyd. It's also what's happened with COVID, you know, um, like I think you could line up great leaders, great world leaders, from pop to bottom and look at how well their countries are responding, and it's like a one to one, Like great leadership is playing out on the world stage. We're all given the same conditions. It's just whether or not it's about setting others up for success or whether or not the leaders thinks that leadership is

all about them. It's like pretty straightforward. Yeah, when I feel like we're seeing that at companies too, right, I mean we're seeing, you know, both in terms of COVID and in terms of the reaction to the to the murder of George Floyd, you know, the that exact same thing that it's all the same circumstances and and granted, their little variables here and there about what type of company you run, but but it seems like so much of it is ultimately about and we have these conversations

all the time, leaders being a link to to say something in many ways, and it seems so simple, but I feel like that gets lost. It's like Twitter versus Facebook right now. Oh, you know, those are two platforms. I just got on my first social media platform and that's LinkedIn. I'm on neither Twitter nor book. I don't do well with distress. And that's Harvard Business School Professor

Francis Fry I will say, Carol. The other thing we realized was we've done a show at Harvard Business School and we thought, man, we got to get her the next time we go up. She was so fun and so candid and really bringing some serious insights at a time where we really need them. You know what's interesting too, She talked about especially in terms of the civic unrest and what's happening in terms of inequalities. Um. She talked about how our companies have been grappling with issues of

race for four hundred years. She reminded us that this has not been something that just popped up. It's obviously been around for a long time. And she said, because of COVID nineteen, because all of us being at home, we're all witnessing the death of a black man at

the same time. That's really powerful, and that's had a very very big impact, and we do want you to hear this entire conversation, so check out our Business Week Extra podcast we've actually got to this week one from Tim Ryan up at p w C, and also this conversation with Frances. It's a good one. She also said, very few people who don't want to get better, which gives me some hope, some optimism, which I think is

a really great way to wrap up our show. And that does wrap up the weekend edition to Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Thanks so much for joining us. Stay safe everyone. I'm Carol Masser and I'm Jason Kelly. Be sure to tune into Bloomberg Business Week Radio with Carol and Me live Monday through Friday starting at two pm Wall Street Time, and of course you can always watch the show live on YouTube. Check it out just search for Bloomberg Global News. We'll be back right here

next week at the same time. This is Bloomberg