This is Bloomberg Business Week inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and tech news. As it happened Sloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Hi, everyone, Welcome to the weekend
edition of Bloomberg Business Week. It was a week full offense, speakers and investors passing through every last word to figure out what's next for the economy and the financial markets. I mean, speaking of markets, the oddities that make up today's trading environment continued, Carol to be front and center. Things like meme stocks, also Reddit fueled rallies, and then we're talking spacks. Heard of them, special purpose acquisition companies, nothing new but still in vogue exactly and kind of
a frenzy this year in particular. And that brings us to Peter Atwater at William and Mary, who you will hear from and who writes about the age of scrutiny. That's s c R E w U T I N Y and what he says will be the third major financial betrayal in twenty years. Also this hour It's been a busy year for Global I p o s. One
that went public this week is dox Simity. We caught up with the company's CFO, and then a panel of real estate heavyweights Brookfield's Bruce Flat, Rob Spire of Tishman Spire, and Shake Khalid, head of Qatar's real estate investment company, with a reality check on office use post pandemic. All of that to come. We begin, though, with this week's domestic cover story. It's all about a short history of
shorts and the people who hate them. And by shorts, Carol, we're talking different kinds of shorts, right, Yeah, But if you check out the cover image, which I highly recommend go to Bloomberg dot com picking up at the news stand because uh it's a fun cover image, provocative, I think, yes, I would go so far to say that. Well. We were joined by Bloomberg Business Week editor Joel Weber also
Bloomberg Finance editor Pat Regnier. Shorts into the equation of people, uh you know, who have a reason to look even without actually owning the share and money, uh by by taking a heartless um then without ever having been involved in the bet. So people who look at this say like what shorts they bring you know, who do you
use the market? They bring new information to the market, and they also can kind of surface things that uh, you know, people who are bulls on the stock might not want to talk about another people who don't have a speak in the company might not have a reason to go um sniffing around to look at. That's not to say that it's not like a lot of Wall Street, but sometimes burkey business. Uh, but that's that's that's how
it works on Wall Street. Let's not forget first of all, it's the other side of the equation, right there are people who talk about stocks that they like, and we're all kind of comfortable with that. This is people who's talk about stocks that they have concerned about. It's the other side of the trade and pat shorts and short investors they can often be right basically kind I mean.
The classic example of that that often comes up is you know, Enron, it was a short who was uh you know, speaking to journalists you know about like, you know, you know something something doesn't look right here. Um, you know, We've had whats lots more examples. Sometimes the specific things that they bring up aren't right, but they create enough smoke that people start kind of looking for fire. Um and that and and that can be an important role. Um,
they are interested actors, you know. I think you know, journalists have kind of a soft spot for shorts, and we have to be careful because that can be a little bit of a trap. Right, Short's been great stories. They have a reason to What journalists have to remember is like, you know, we just like great stories. Shorts like great stories. That makes them money and you've got to remember that book. Pat. You also get into the concept of naked shorting, which is getting a lot of
attention right now, and it's something that's really misunderstood. What did the data tell us about something that is actually not allowed that people think is happening. So the idea of naked shorting is that you're going short, but you're not doing the shole thing that you're supposed to do when you're shorting a stock, which is you actually have to borrow the stock before you sell it to somebody.
So you're basically doing the tread and telling somebody that you have this stock that you're selling to them, but maybe you haven't actually borrowed it, which would be an abusive practice. It is being legal, and you can get in a lot of trouble for doing it. Um. You know, some people appointed to the fact that, um, there has been a lot of orternoon is sales to deliver on some heavily shorted companies when they say like that that
looks suspicious to them. UM. You know the SEC that's kind of a standard disclaimer when they release that data saying like, you know, this could be a number of different things, not necessarily evidence of naked shorting. You know, I think it's something that always needs to be looked at. Markets are big and complicated and you know, and increasingly okay in a lot of ways. UM, but there's no opening set cases that naked shorting is is happening at all.
You know. The other the thing that I think the timing of the story was was great for it is the fact that Hendenburgh has sort of been in the headlines of late um Lordstown obviously being one example of
that DraftKings Um being another. And I'm wondering how um, pat you know, as somebody who's who's covered all of this before and and the ecosystem, what what stands out to you about the Hendenburgh examples what's so interesting there is like there you have a case where that that is a company that's doing research and there's why would you that they're short? Right, So they're giving you the information to know, like I am an interested party there.
And you know, in the Lordstown case, they're raising a lot. They were raising a lot of concerns about some of the re orders that Wordstown has. Now Wardstown how said, like we went and we looked and they they actually said, yeah, there was some problems with some of the statements we made there. They've denied some of the other allegations that were made. But again it was sort of like, hey, we're gonna trying to light on this and we're gonna
look at it. Uh, and then you just have to kind of you know, judges this person who's just remember doing the trade and needs you know, and and has in putting the break down. They're going to be pointing it is, but you know, are they are they going to hit everything just right? Probably not? And they're an
interesting party. That was Bloomberg Business Week Finance editor Pat mcneer along with the Bloomberg Business Week editor Joel Webber, like this story, we are talking so much about the Reddit fueled rally and so much of what's going on our short position short squeezes, And they actually did a primer on what it's all about efficient markets. Yeah, exactly, people take long positions, people take short positions. Coming up from short selling to the age of scrutiny, William and marries.
Peter Atwater, who coined the term case shaped recovery, has another idea that's getting a lot of attention. He's coming up next. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg. This is bloom Bird Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovik from Bloomberg Radio. Alright, Tim, I lost count of how many FED speakers this week. There were a lot of them. There were a lot of them, and that included FED Chief J. Powell. He
was up on Capitol Hill before a House subcommittee. He was talking about the impact of the coronavirus. Job gains should pick up in coming months as vaccinations rise, easing some of the pandemic related factors currently weighing them down. Someone who looks at today's world through both an economic and Wall Street lenses, Peter Atwater adject professor of economics at William and Mary. Now you might recall that he coined the term K shaped recovery. He also writes about
the age of scrutiny. The stuff he writes about Israeli provocative and the age of scrutiny that is spelled s c r e w t I n Y. What he says, Tim, is that he's writing about the third major financial betrayal in twenty years. That's what he's writing about. He says, after the dot com debacle, in the housing crisis, the investment crowd will not take kindly to yet another bubble
bursts our conversation. I've been watching, as I always do, human behavior, and it's been fascinating to see in this cycle, particularly in the last eighteen twenty four months, where attention getting has been sort of the principal objective, whether you are a spack partner or a meme stock um that that the whole focus has moved to what I call illusion. That our our business leaders are now trying to captivate
an audience. And and this is a very different cycle phenomenon, and it and it concerns me because at the same time you have all of these very charismatic um. You know, very powerful leaders talking about the promise and EA v S and the promise in space and the promise in all of this futuristic technology. You're starting to see companies
where that illusion was false. You saw that with Luck and Coffee and wire Card and greensill And and Nicola and and most recently we were seeing this being brought forth at Lordstown Motor where the crowd is beginning to wonder what was real and what was fake. But the age, the coming age of scrutiny, it feels like in some ways, Peter,
it's a good thing. And it's interesting how I feel like, in terms of cycles, market cycles, when there's things going wrong, investors are kind of quick to get the bad news and kind of pushed for the bad news to be out there, whether via an activist investors or the retail investor. Like it feels like we get to it much more quickly. Is that fair? Yeah? But but I think so far the crowd has shaken off any sense there is a systemic issue. We've we've treated each of these as if
they're independent. But I think we're rapidly approaching a tipping point where it feels like there's too many of these happening at once, and and that then raises a question as to what is real and what is illusion? Much more broadly, what happens or what's the outcome. I mean, we've gone through the financial crisis, We've gone through the tech bubble, We've gone through certainly the pandemic. Each of those crises and the impact on either markets and or
the economy very different. Where does this all go? So we love illusion when we're watching a magic act, but but illusion is inherently predatory, and so I'm fearful that if people now see that they've been duped, then then that raises a broader question by whom. And it's one thing to think that they've been duped by um, you know, startup companies where you know, okay, you've got very aggressive
entrepreneurs touting the future. But but I think that there is a sense that, hey, I've been duped too many times. I was duped with the dot com bubble, I've been duped with a housing bubble. And I think there's a real likelihood that the crowd says that they're angry about this, that that that there that they want something done. You know, how could this happen again? And that's why I use the term scrutiny because I think people are going to
feel like they've been really really abused in this. So who do you blame in this process? Is it regulatory lack of oversight, or is it you know, money moves quickly, you know this through the financial system, and the financial system markets in particular are always looking for I'm not going to say how to game the system, but for that new opportunity, you know, and sometimes all of the transparency about some new opportunity it hasn't yet been revealed.
And I think that, yeah, there will be questions as to who to blame, and sadly, Carol, that the list will belong because when confidence is high, scrutiny is low. We don't pay attention, we don't regulate as much as
we might otherwise. There's a there's a whole social phenomenon um and and with this one especially great because it's become almost cultural because we have this, this entire universe of influencers on social media who are in some ways portraying themselves and in a in a masquerade as well. Do you think that's all dangerous? The retail investor Crawd. I think that retail inevitably shows up late. That's what
all of the research shows they are. They are drawn into it after an enormous amount of money has been made, and then they get very aggressive, very quickly. And so I watch meme stocks as a as a sort of a parallel to other market peaks, and I think that it should be more cautionary than exciting to um to
the retail investor, Peter. Before we move on a little bit, I do want to dis continue with your writing about the coming age of scrutiny and how you talk specifically about what ahead will be a third major betrayal in twenty years and that specifically it would be more than just a pause orible pullback. So what do you think investors or how do you see it that investors what
they should be preparing themselves for. I think I think investors need to be prepared for far greater um reevaluation of risk, both in the credit markets and in especially in the equity market. Um you know when Archigos failed THEE and was what would happen next? And you're starting to see a credit sweez, it's pulling back, it's lending to other similar entrepreneurs and and you know big investors. And I think that that seat change is likely to continue.
And so investors who have taken great advantage of of ample liquidity and rising markets should should be prepared for a reversal of trends, both on the equity end credit side. That was Peter Atwater, adjunct professor of economics that William and Mary. I was like talking with him Tim because he does look at what's going on in financial markets with an economic perspective as well as with someone who understands Wall Street, and so it all comes together in
a really smart way. Yeah, it really does. Always a great guest when he joins us on Bloomberg Business Week Radio, we'll still ahead on Bloomberg Business Week. A trend that
picked up momentum during the pandemic digital medicine. We're gonna hear from doximitys CFO on this week's I p O. This is Bloomberg broadcasting from the financial capital of the World, Bloomberg eleven Frio in New York to Washington, d C. Bloomberg to Boston, Bloomberg one oh six one does San Francisco Bloomberg nine sixty to the country, Sirius XM Chado one nineteen and around the globe, the Bloomberg Business app and Bloomberg Radio dot com. This is Bloomberg Business Week.
It went public this week, doubling in its first day of trading. We're talking about the healthcare platform dox Simity. For more on the i p O and the company's business, we caught up with Doximity chief financial officer Anna Bryson. We're really really proud and happy that we had a positive outcome for our physicians who participated in the i p O. We had over ten thousand physicians participating in the IPO and and that's more important to us than
any additional funds for for our company. Explain what you mean by that, because increasingly we are seeing companies offer shares when they do go public to groups of people who traditionally don't get to participate in ip O. So explain what you did. Yeah, So we did a directed shares program for our physicians which enabled them to participate in the i p O at the offer price. And it was critical for us because the physician is at
the court of the mission. Physician first is our guiding principle and the physicians really the reason that we've been able to build this leading digital platform for medical professionals. So they're the reason we're here. So it's very, very important for us to have them participate in the IPO. I understand as you've got one point eight million verified members on the platform. Of those one point eight million, how many did actually participate in the directed shares program.
We had over ten thousand physicians participate in the directed Shares program. Alright, good to know. So tell us about the metrics going forward. I mean, you've got multiple tiers. One is free, You've got what almost twenty dollars a month as a provider that you can tap into, and then hospitals are also tapping into it. Um, that's the that's how you that's the financial model going forward. Yes, so we actually sell almost all of our offerings are free for our physicians. So all of our tools are
free for our physicians. We do have a premium feature of our telehealth tool that we we do sell to our physicians for as you mentioned about twenty dollars a month, But the main way we monetize is by selling into the healthcare space, and healthcare is an industry that's long been very under index on digital spend and it's in the midst of a digital transformation. And we currently work with twenty of the top twenty hospitals and twenty of
the top twenty pharmaceutical companies. And that's the main way I monetize. So r M is never to make to make money out of doctor's pockets, but but to focus on on the healthcare is and industry. All right, so what does the health care space get out of it? Uh and and I'm assuming that that's the bulk of your revenues in terms of percentage wise, that's correct. UM. So health health systems customer would use us in order
to in gender referrals. So we allow them to potentially connect with a colleague or a key opinion leader in order to give share brand awareness about what's happening at that hospital or what's the new the new therapy they're
they're focusing on in order to engender referrals. How did it grow during the pandemic because the doctors who I've spoken to have talked a lot about how UH it offers telehealth and it gave them an opportunity to also contact their patients, not just through telehealth, but also by calling them from their cell phones but making it look like you could actually we're calling from the office. Yeah, yeah,
that's that's one of our one of our favorite features. Uh. You know that during the pandemic, these positions have have long been using our tools for for a multitude of years, you know, we've been in place for um and during the pandemic, they when physicians couldn't see any of their patients face to face, they started using our telehealth tools dramatically at a much much faster pace. And we're really proud to do our part in the pandemic and give back.
And we actually didn't even start charging for any of the telehealth features at all, even to our health systems until January one, so we really gave it away for free for those first eight or nine months of the pandemic, and that was really really critical for us. We were
very proud to do that. It sounds like an ultimately I think about companies that outsourced back office operations or customer service operations, and it feels like, in many ways, you guys are looking to do that for the medical community, doctors specifically, and the doctor communities at major hospitals is
that what it's ultimately about. That's exactly right. We have a multitude of ways in which physicians can use us, but we want to enable them to collaborate with their colleagues, stay up to date the latest medical news and research. They could manage their careers, they could conduct virtual patient visits. We're replacing that that that fax machine and some of the more anequated technology that that they've been using for so long. And um, we're trying to be a smartphone
hub really for them. Listen, research is a tricky one. How do you how do you stay ahead and make sure you do have the latest and greatest research for those members on the platform we do physician summits. We are constantly connecting with our physician members and getting feedback from them in order to grow our product suite for them, so they are directly involved in our product groom up. How big can this company become? I'm just wondering because it sounds like you guys have a lot more revenue
streams that you can pursue. I think we have a tremendous organic opportunity ahead of us. As I mentioned healthcare as and industry that is in the midst of a digital transformation, and we look forward to continuing on this journey and seeing where it can go. And I'll get back to you on that one. That's Anna bryceon Doximity, chief financial Officer, talking about the company going public this week. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Still ahead, the world
increasingly going digital. We saw it at work during the pandemic, with everyone working from home. So what does that really mean when it comes to demand for commercial realistic I feel like it's one of the great debates of our time right now, not just here in New York City, but throughout the world exactly working from hybrid going back to the office. Time will tell. Coming up next, We've got a dream team in the commercial real estate space.
They weigh in. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovik from Bloomberg Radio. There was a lot going on in real estate, uh this week, Tim, There always seems to be, And that included Blackstone Buying Home Partners of America. That's a rental company that owns more than seventeen thousand homes. Also a bloomberg big take on how the world's financial centers are struggling to get employees back to their offices.
Workplace activity in London, New York, and San Francisco, Well, it's still fifty percent below its normal level. That's according to mobility data from Google. Carol Well. This week from the Qatar Economic Forum that Bloomberg participated in, I moderated a panel on real estate in a virtual world. On it, his excellency Khalid bin Khalifa, He's chairman of Qatar DR that's the Quatari real Estate investment company. Also Bruce Flat, CEO Brookfield Asset Management and Rob Spire, president CEO of
Tishman Spire. They were a dream team. Here's some of that conversations. Let me start with you, is it a case that we're not going to go back to our office? Or if I look around New York, it feels like a lot of people have already moved back. Look, it's life is about phases. People have to adjust. They're all coming back to the office. Um, it's just inevitable and but but people have to do it in phases. They thought they weren't, they couldn't come back. Then they thought
they were going to partly work from home. Eventually they're all going to be back to the office. We're seeing it everywhere in the world. You can see it in the cities that are reopening already across the world. And uh, it's just happening at a slower pace in some places. But but look, everything's opening up where the vaccine you're working,
Shall it come on in on this? Do you agree you're seeing everybody come back or do you feel like that there might still be some dramatic changes when it comes to real estate generally, I do al what Bruce said. I think on phases as we have a planned also here and and and cutter. Many of the company's agencies organizations are coming back into phases and I see I see with the with the vaccine, people getting vaccinated, even a larger pool of people getting together in terms of meetings, events,
what have you. I think we cannot get away from the concept of the working space. The concept of working space is for many occupier is to to pull talent and to promote collaboration and innovation. So this concept we see in utterly dr where where I am a chairman of we don't see a change from that I think we're getting back to normal. I think as a growing company like Utterly d R, it's important that we maintain
the the attracting talented people. And in the same time, as a growing company, we are developed gun training national to as a successor for the future, and we kind of do that remotely. Rob is it three for three? Do you agree that people are coming back from from the office or just does something change a little bit in terms of how we look at the office space, maybe how we use it or how much we use
it and where we are using it. Companies are really struggling to define what a hybrid workplace means and how to implement that in an equitable way. Does it mean that nobody works Mondays and Fridays? Doesn't mean is one big company is doing? You tell people which three days they come to the office based on a computer algorithm? Do you give every employee their own choice? How does
that work? So? I think companies approaches have been very fluid um depending on seasonality month by month, and it has been a real struggle if it's not remote or in the office, and it's a balance of the to how to actually execute. But I'd give you a fact point from our kind of on the ground experience, we were lucky enough to buy a building in Sunny Vale a couple of months ago at a fifty percent five
percent discount to the pre COVID value. Within thirty days of closing, we have two tech companies who are looking at potentially taking the whole campus. Now, six months ago, the whole world was writing off the Bay Area. Everybody was moving out, moving elsewhere. And the facts on the ground are most of the big tech companies have added extraordinary numbers to their workforce and they need places to put them. Nobody's making the bet in actuality that they're
not bringing people back to the workplace. Well, that's what I want to get to and kind of make some sense out of, because we've done a lot of stories, certainly here at Bloomberg about people leaving Silicon Valley that the big tech companies are saying, you can kind of work anywhere. Bruce, who is it that's going to be in demand for office space? Is it the same as it was pre pandemic in terms of what we see
post pandemic? What what signs are you saying? Look, I think the one thing that people have forgotten about when they think of office space is normally workforces, the GDP of the world grows and you need more space to house people. And what happens when you have a slowdown is that nobody built buildings and there really hasn't been anything globally launched for eighteen months, which means that this the the amount of buildings coming on is just getting
less and less. And over time, what you're going to see is demand come back, uh and the amount of supply diminish, which means that you're going to have a whole cycle start over again. And there's our Our view is that, um, you know, this is very positive for real estate longer term. Uh and and we're continuing to invest globally and you can see it in each of the markets that open up. You start to see cap rates come down because people understand that the boxes are
going to be full again. And uh And if you don't understand the business or people aren't in the business, that it's maybe hard to understand. But but that is really what's going on at the ground level. Say Colin, what are you seeing Like the other two on the panel, you have exposure obviously to the office space lusal I think about your massive development that you guys have been working on since so five, What are you seeing in
terms of office demand? Who needs it? Who doesn't? Because there are certainly lots of stories about you know, open office space UH in Doha specifically, well I can rephrase it in macro and micro if I will talk macro, I think the office space demand will continue, especially for big cooperation big co operations, technology firms as said by by Rob and also for the professional services that rely on a law large talent to pool UH for and
looking for also best locations business space. If I talk about micro here here on cut we have we went through I think a surplus of of offices space because it has to do with the with the with the demographic, with the planning, what have you. But I think but that's also has a benefit of reducing the cost per square meter, which is also encouraging tenant to move in.
And looking also for more of the smart cities I would say or smart offices that's where the technology is being upgraded and has more sustainable and will being UH location for for the employee to to move in. So basically best locations, best offices where we may and as as as a high flyer. Take how it for works
are so important to guitar. We know that. Are you hopeful in terms of, you know, immigration policies, are you counting on that really changing demographics to help also fill those buildings in the demand there well, definitely, and we've seen we've seen a change on the on the on the on the policies for immigrants to move in and to give more of of leverage to the to the
business here in terms of the doing business or residency. Definitely, that's that's helping certain cities, certain location within within the state of Patar And and we've seen that going towards the the the that right that right way, so to speak. Ru I know, gateway cities are certainly you know on your radar and you still see strength and gateway cities.
Is there anything to the argument that some of the secondary cities, because of companies that do offer now as a perk kind of flexible working, that there will we will see kind of more investment going into those secondary tertiary cities. Look look at all of them. Are all of the above are good. There are smaller cities that are highly attractive. Nashville, Austin UM where people want to
be in. They're growing. Um. But just to put it in perspective, we're building a major complex in downtown Nashville. It's the office, residential, retail, a big mixed use development, but it has four square feet of office. Um. We ourselves owned sixty million square feet of space in New York City. So it's just the quantums. And as Rob said earlier, to get the people, and as Jake Khalid said, to to get the amount of numbers, you need to
be in these big cities. So Facebook, Google and many of the tech companies are in New York City because it's the only place that they can get the mass of talent. And that's not to say that nationalism will be important, but it's just it's just the quantums are different us. Well, I have you. I want to talk a little bit about retail specifically. You guys have big exposure. You bought g g P back in the timing on that. Did it cause you pause? Certainly over the pandemic year. Look,
we started buying it in two thousand and nine. We bought it four four parts of it and the last part we completed in eighteen so um. But yeah, look, retail was not great. When they shut down your business and it goes to zero for a couple of months, it's not it's not fun. But if you take it today, numbers are coming back strong. If you have great centers in great cities, um, people are strong and actually sales and many of them are above where they were pre pandemic.
So retails are sales are coming back. And yes there was a little bit of a pause. But those that are wealth and to live through these periods of time and and we're all trained to do that. In the real estate business. That was Shaped Colored, chairman of Qatari dr that's the Quatari Real Estate Investment Company. Also Bruce Flatt, CEO Brookfield Asset Management, and Rob Spire, president CEO of Tishman Spire here that entire panel. Just go to Bloomberg
Live dot com. Well, it's gonna wrap up the first hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Tim Stanovick and I'm Carol Masster. Coming up in our next hour, Peloton working out deals in the corporate wellness space, an Indian princess on the pandemics impact on her home country, plus the cinematic tale of real world drama that captured our attention. We've got the
inside story of ever Given. It's the massive ship. Of course, they got stuck in the Suez Canal and caused global shipping to come to a halt earlier this year. It's got to be one of my favorite stories in the magazine. This week it is a deep dive. Yeah, totally. Speaking of diving, how about going diving for lobsters? All the rage which you believe during the pandemic. Who knew? We're going to talk to the founder and CEO of Get Me a Lobster. That's all ahead in the next hour.
This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and tech news as it happened. Sloomberg Business This Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. Hi am Carol Masser and I'm Tim Stanovick of Bloomberg. Quick Take.
Plenty ahead in our second hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week, including Pelatant stepping into the corporate wellness world. Yes indeed, plus our Royal Princess j Navi Kumari of Muar on our home country of India and managing through the pandemic and get ready to pay more for your lobster this summer. We're going to hear from the founder and CEO of Get Main Lobster. You've already had a lobster roll. I've had my first summer lobster.
Not a lobster rollo Oh, I thought for you. It was yummy. First up this hour the international cover story in Bloomberg business Week magazine this week. It is about something that we were all mesmerized by for one week back in March, when global shipping came to a halt when the ever given got stuck in the Suez Canal. How it happened? Tim Bloomberg's Kitchell at a team of reporters to get the inside story and tell this cinematic tale. He joined us along with the Business Week editor Joel Weber.
One of the things that we learned was that the captain actually got conflicting information, um and and what how did that transpire? According to the reporting that you guys were able to get. So what we do know about what happened on the bridge when the ship crashed was there was a chaotic situation these these pilots had boarded the ship, Egyptian pilots whose job it is to steer
giant ship through the canal. They spoke mainly in Arabit and on the bridge also was the captain who was an Indian gentleman, and his crewman who spoke mainly in English. And there was this situation where there are dispute emerged about whether it was too windy to enter and then once they were inside the canal, how to keep the ship on a straight keel. And the argument became quite forceful and the pilots threatened to leave. And while all this was, while this was going on, they lost control
of the vessel when it crashed. So what about now? Because I think, as Joel said, and I think people were obsessed with this story for six days and then so many people, like we do with with with big stories. I think as as consumers, we move on. And I think people were really surprised to find it have been really really surprised to find that, Hey, the status of the ever gifting right now is kind of still up
in the air. Yeah, I think most people just assumed the ship had sailed out about its business, but no, it was. It was seized shortly afterwards. It never left the Sewers Canal. It's in fact still there because the Egyptian government is seeking a billion dollars or so in compensation from the ship owner and really the only leverage that the Egyptian authorities had with the ship itself, so they refused to let it leave, and the crew and the captains found themselves almost as pawned in this, in
this big money game, um and they're still there. Just this week, it looks like there's going to be a settlement, that they've reached a tentative settlement, and the crew and captain will be hoping they can leave in the next few weeks. But you know, there are there are stories of sailors who have been stranded on vessels in the Stewers Canal over legal dispute and stayed there for years.
So it's a really bad situation for the crew in particular. Well, and what's interesting is, and you really shed a lot of light, um Kit on this, is that there's a lot of parties involved in these massive ships. There's the owner of the ship. There's companies that provide the people who are on the ship, and then you've got the Egyptian pilots who come on and help it through the canal.
And there's a lot of finger pointing, it sounds like at this point because from what I understand and you're reporting to, those pilots were bickering while they were going through the canal, and they were bickering when they came off the ship as well. Yeah, the modern shipping is really complicated. Things get messy whenever there's legal dispute because you've got the owner of the ship, the crew of
the ship, the owners of the cargo. There were seventeen thousand containers on board the ship holding things like Nike shoes and Lenovo laptops. You got the insurers involved, ultimately are going to pay the bill. We've got the Egyptian government. All these different parties have different interests and it gets really complicated. My other favorite scene in the story kit is the court scene that that went down, and what
can you tell us about what transparreed there? It was this amazing day in the court in this Mailia, which is almost exclusively for shipping disputes. That happened in the canal um, and we just we were we were fortunate to happen to be there when the ship owner suddenly pulled out a new legal strategy. Until that point, the conversations had been very civil and looked like they were
working towards the settlements. When we were in court, that all changed and they suddenly played their their wild card, which was to say it wasn't halful this crash. The Egyptian authorities, in the Egyptian pilots bear some of the blame. And we have this audio from the bridge that proved upsit um. So it was actually he was very dramatic importance, very tense, and it was a remarkable scene. The ship's kit are getting bigger. The Suez Canal is so important
to global trade. I was so surprised after reading this that this hasn't happened many times in the past. It to me seems just like a matter of time until this happens again. Considering that, well, the ships are getting bigger. So here's an interesting thing. The day before the canal was completed in the nineteenth century, just before they were about to hold the first ceremonial flow, tiller of vessels
along it. They had an incident the night before and a ship got stuck and blocked the canal, and it's got the more night to free it. You know, it's it's a narrow channel. It's two hundred meters wide in places that sounds like a lot that wasn't container ships are so enormous, but there's not a lot of rooms. And in a way it is amazing this hasn't happened before. You know, fifty ships going through each and every day, and it really is only time before ones of really
big ones get stuck again. That's Bloomberg's Kitch shell l along with Business Week editor Joel Webber. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Still to come. Demand for its products surge while everyone was working at home, and now that people are heading back to the office, Peloton is too. We'll explain This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovik from Bloomberg Radio. This week some news. Peloton Interactive said it's
looking to expand beyond its bikes and treadmills. Shares traded higher on news that the company is stepping up jim rivalry by entering the corporate wellness business. They are launching a discount program for company employees, much like Jim's have offered for years now. That same day, Carol Bloomberg exclusively reporting that the company is working on any digital heart rate arm band, taking a big step into the competitive wearables market. For more on the moves, we checked in
with Cassidy Rouse, general manager of Corporate Wellness and Peloton. Yeah, we're really excited. We obviously unveiled our new corporate wellness product, which is a new way for organizations to offer Peloton into their wellness programs. See, these companies are spending sixty billion dollars globally on wellness products and programs. This is not including insurance. But we hear the same things over
and over again. They want results, they want stronger engagement, they want measurable outcomes, and these are all native to what Peloton delivers. So we're really excited to extend those benefits into the workplace today and really please with the with the overwhelming um Well, Cassie, unpack it a little bit for us. I mean, have you signed up companies already? How many companies are you talking to give us a little bit if you can, on the size and scope
on the potential for this business for Peloton. Absolutely, we're really excited about the potential. We we did name a few launch partners, so we're working with companies likes of the SAP, Wayfare, sky in the UK Center, Interactive, Samsung, so large innovative organizations and obviously in um in deep conversations with many more. But um, yeah, we're we're really excited. Ultimately, this is about improving the health and happiness of employees
and increasing accessibility for our product. So we're really proud to come to market with some really respected organizations today. Well, full disclosure, I've got a Peloton, so I totally get it, and I can see why I happing into the corporate market. I've had it for several years. Um, but how does it move the needle in terms of revenues you guys are looking at I don't know. I'm looking at some of the forecasts of about four billion in revenue for
one year. So how big a business could this potentially come for you? And and it's a business that I would go as far to say, and I'm curious if you concur is that it will provide a fairly predictable and reliable revenue stream. Yeah, we're really optimistic about it. Really, how we we think about this business is we see organizations on average companies are spending nearly five million dollars
per company on product to build healthier and happier workplaces. UM. But again, as I said, they want results and they look at Peloton is powering our connective finess products are powering twenty six workouts a month. We see an opportunity to come in and solve a real problem in corporate wellnesses that companies don't really know or have a strong idea of the r o I they're getting from their spin and we see it as a way to team up with them to offer a completely accessible UM wellness offering.
Across our digital product portfolio are connected finess products, and we think if we can do that, if we can come in and integrate with companies to build healthy and happier workplaces, it's ultimately going to drive membership for us and the again, the growth and the financial results will take care of themselves. Will most corporate programs be similar in terms of a discount program for your digital app as well as discounts for the actual hardware, whether it's
a treadmill or a bike. That's a great question, Carol. We we've architected this to be streamly flexible. We want to be able to work with organizations of all sizes, regardless of your goals or your budget um. And so we can go as big or we can go as you at the entry levels we need to be, but it will be. The key theme here is that there
is absolutely something for everyone in your organization. For those of you who may not have room in their house for equipment, or don't have prim in their schedule for it, or however, it's it's the Peloton app um and the power of Peloton in your pocket. For those of you who want the most of your experience, it is subsidized pricing on the hardware. And for those existing members like you, Carol, who are all access members, it's reimbursements and subsidies on
their all access membership. Really interesting, how but how big a business? I mean, what have been? And I know you're not gonna you can't peel back all the layers and give me all the numbers. I understand, um, But as I said, you're you know a company that's projected to do about four billion in revenue. Is this potentially a billion dollar business? Is that half a billion dollar business? Can you give me any indications of size and scope? Would it be something significant or is this just a
nice add on? Yeah, we think about it in terms of membership growth. So if you look at UM again, I think our leadership has been very transparent and embush on our ability to reach a hundred million memvers globally. And if you look at people who are yeah employees and have access to subsidize health benefits of all kind, that is a massive service or addressable market for us.
And for Peloton to be able to integrate within organizations and deliver value back to the company UM and reach a highly incriminal new audience for us, we think it could can really power growth of our community and UM inforged tight of relationships with our members. Hey Cassie, why are you guys doing it now? Is it because we've gotten on the other side of the pandemic and I'm just curious? Yeah, that's also a great question, Carol. We we feel like there's never been a better time to
help drive innovation up at wellness. So if you think about the challenges that companies and benefits managers and UM chief people offices are dealing with. The future of work is very uncertain. There are a lot of question marks. The only thing that is certain is that uh, they're going to have to support a more distributed workforce and
a more flexible workforce. And it's really hard to put together a package of health and wellness benefits to serve different people in different locations with different schedules, and they really a lot of the support for Peloton is that it can work around your schedule and also it can help you build community in a more distributed workforce. We're
seeing a lot of our early partners UM. It's pretty remarkable when when you look at what's happened, people are actually holding meetings and tam get togethers through Peloton rides and walks and working out for the app, which is we love to see that. It's so we think it's much more than UM. It's much more than a you know, plug in place fitness solution. This is about integrating within your company and helping people stay connected and healthier and happier.
We think there's never been a better time, right and you guys listen have always have stressed community. I've been at a homecoming here in New York City and and I kind of get that why there might be meetings together on a on a Peloton platform. Hey, one last question, our Mark German, a scoop Peloton working on a digital heart rate arm band, which would be the company's biggest
move beyond stationary fitness equipment. Really, you know, Cassidy moving into the competitive wearables market, does this kind of fit into also maybe you know, getting more entrenched to incorporate wellness and just quickly just got about thirty seconds. Yeah, Our our hardware team are our R and D team is always hard at work and nothing to announce with corporate wellness. Our goal is to offer increased access and availability to all of our products, but nothing to do enough. Unfortunately,
that's Cassidys, general manager of corporate Wellness at Peloton. Still to come on Bloomberg Business Week, How India is managing through the pandemic From her Royal Princess to Navi Kumari of Moore. This is Bloomberg broadcasting from the financial capital of the world, Bloomberg eleven Frio in New York to Washington. D c. Bloomberg to Boston, Bloomberg one O six one to San Francisco, Bloomberg nine sixty to the country Sirius XM Chado one nine and around the globe the Bloomberg
Business app and Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This is Bloomberg Business Week. India is home to more than a billion people, you know that, and emerging and developing economy that has been on the front lines of the coronavirus health pandemic. Things are getting better. The v shaped economic recovery that India's policymakers obsessed over did eventually materialize this year. It's
a different story. We got up with someone who has a close up view of the latest public health developments on the subcontinent, her Royal Princess naviy Kumari of Moore. She joined us from johb Per, India and shared her account of her homeland struggle with COVID nineteen and her hopes for how we can prevent the next global health crisis.
The problem that India space in the past fifteen months is that our policy making via the government has lacked some level of certification and execution of it and um if we were to talk about the responsibilities that lie with the leaders of resination. I would have to look
at it from a balanced perspective. I think India has been suffering from a significant absence of investment, or let's put it under investing in the public health care that which of course has amplified the issues that in their spacing today it's been a death dealing crisis. There's been a lack of proactiveness on the government's part when there was the opportunity to do so in the early and
comprehensive lockdown that we had last year. And unfortunately the problems have just been compounded by the fact that our public health there infrastructure is not just wasn't ready for it,
or legislative system just wasn't ready for it. Well, pritis comar I guess at this point, do you think that things are better post pandemic, that that the government's learned something about the policies that need to be in place, or do you think that once we get on the other side of this for India, we kind of just move on with getting back to things as they were. What we need moving forward as first and foremost that we cannot we absolutely must not let the wisdom of
experience be wasted on us. We've got to find a way to work together. It has to be um, it has to be a collective action to solve the global not only the global pandemic, but the problems of it that the world is facing course pandemic. So if I was to break it down, I would say, politically, we need better global governments, we need collective action, we need
a new global coalition. We need a new form of internationalism, or let's call it an awkraw internationalism, because what we have today is internationalism that it's completely outwarded for the needs of the present day and the future. UM. What I've also, well, do you think, well, if I may, if I may follow Princess Kamara, do you feel that the developed world has really failed the developing world, especially when it comes to the health crisis. I wouldn't say
it's been an entire failure. I mean, if you if you look at how the US and India have collaborated during the course of this crisis. I mean the Biden administrations, you know, support of the intellectional property, where whereas the WT or it's come to India's aid with medical resources, raw materials, and and and at this time of need. It's exaccinly nation. So I wouldn't say it's an entire and it's been an entire failure. I would definitely say
that that's just two people nations acting together. What we need is collective action. What you need is countries and nation states working together to promote and regulate proper global government and also facilitate some accountability at large, because what we're seeing is some push back to some extent of a couple of arguments. So I'm saying the global supply chain is here to stay. There's no way to undo it.
But at the same time, you did see those nationalistic forces certainly kick into high gear during the pandemic, and companies and leaders rethinking, wait a minute, should I have my supply Chaine also closer to home. Karen, You're absolutely right, I think um uh, as I was about to say earlier, the fault lines have been observed and they are being addressed. But are they being addressed and effective fashion is my question in today, because the global supply chain, of course,
isn't going to go anyway it is. Um what we've seen is a significantly integrated global economic infrastructure that cannot be undone anymore. But what we can do moving forward is re engineer and restructure these global supply chains with the objective of the objective of an incentivizing engagement that promotes that shared values. Um UM. It facilitates more accountability. It means that of you know, uh, these natured think um.
It allows us to um to create a new economic infrastructure, more effective economic infrastructure that's not called the hostage of the nations are the democratic nations. That was the Royal Princess Junavi Kumari of Moore who joined us on the phone from job for City, India. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week coming up. We're gonna finish on a lighter note. Well, unless you're consider the lobster. As David Foster Wallace wrote years ago, the faunter and CEO of Get Main Lobster
on why You'll be paying more this summer. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovik from Bloomberg Radio. All Right, it's lobster season. And when I think of lobster, I think of Maine, which accounts for nearly all of America's total lobster harvest. It is an approximately five million dollar year industry for that state. And that's where we headed to Maine and to Mark Morrell, the founder and CEO
of Get Main Lobster. It's seven online delivery service of lobsters and more for you look at the upcoming season. And as our listeners know, we often like to first ask our guests about managing through the pandemic. That's where we began with Mark, and it turns out we wanted lobsters during Lockdown's figure we had the benefit of you know, food service and casinos and cruise ships, right they were
no longer big lobster customers. So we had plenty of lobster available for quite a long time for you know, a good eight ten months. We didn't have to fight resourcing. Um that's changed today. You know. It's interesting, you know, Mark, we talked to a lot of folks and they say, you know, initially we thought our business we were doomed. Was it like that for you guys initially or was it no? People were saying okay, because they quickly moved online.
They just were ordering more and more, which one was it. So my financial advisors said, hey, we have to have the talk. You need to get prepared just in case. And I said, yes, that would be the responsible thing for us to do. Let's do that. I said. However, what I'm noticing is higher than normal velocity with orders, and so I think we're going to have the opposite effect. Um, you know we did. We grew. It's pretty wild. That
is crazy. Wow. During the pandemic um and as you said, like so many of us and so many companies, big, small, middle size just kind of being able to tap the supply chain that they needed. Um. And that's even with as you said, the cruise industry, they weren't there anymore, right, Yeah, they're no longer customers. So think about a large purveyor and they have stocked in their freezers that are you know, the size of small homes, and they're preparing to release
that you know in the off season. Well, all of their customers left overnight, so they were freaking out. Um. But then there was companies like mine that said, hey, I need to fill my freezer. Can I take yours? So so it shifted, right, and then that was great and plus you know some of them you know, turned around and thirty days later they were sailing online as well. So good for them for being able to pivot. You know, we were designed perfectly for an instance. So what are
you seeing right now? Demand is still very very high. However, supply is extremely low. You know, the catch has been low. Um, that's typical this time of year. There's less traps in the water here in Maine. Um. I think they're waiting until um, you know, the lobster's get a little bit closer to shore. You know, they're migrating right now, head into you know, cooler waters, better environment for them to begin to shed their shell. And yeah, it's an interesting time.
It's Uh, sourcing is very very difficult. We don't have access to the what I call hero products. You know that people love larger tales and things like that. Yeah, so okay, as you said, the catch is low this time of year, Supply is very low. So how much is my lobster going to cost me? I've never seen it this high this time of year. And you know, really the live lobster isn't too crazy, but you know
it's when you converted into lobster meat, you know. I'm sure he saw in the New York Times thirty four dollar lobster roll. I mean that's real and uh. The interesting thing though is, you know consumers are are being understanding and they really want lobster. Demand it's still really high, um, you know, so I won't see the price moving much unless the catch increases dramatically, which it is supposed to. Um. Even then, I don't know if they'll be a drastic
drop or not. I haven't seen anything like this before. We'll tell me a little about because you guys, I know, think about and are involved with sustainable fisheries in terms of getting your seafood, I think we just take for granted fish or lobsters or shrimp or scallops or whatever. Oysters. I spend time in the Long Island Sound, so I see the lobster traps. You know, we have to dodge them. What's involved in farming when it comes to fish specifically, and how do you do it in a in a
healthy way, sustainable way. Well, it's released to lobster, and we can't catch anything that's blow point nine pounds, nothing above four. And if we catch our pregnant female, we mark them by cutting a v notch and more of their fins, and then we put her back in right, and she's going to help breed a whole bunch of more lobsters. And everything's still done by hands. And lobster men are independent. They're very much committed and have been
since the industry started with sustainability. I mean, it's a huge markets remain. We need to keep it going. And same thing with main scouts. Right, the season is not very long. We're always very thoughtful about any kind of species that we're fishing to make sure that it's not
overfish has plenty of time to recoup. You know, Pea food industries feap food consumption is increased dramatically in the last two so you know, we really have to as consumers, we really should be thinking about diversifying a palette, not just focusing on one particular species extent your favorite. You know, venture out, try some new things. Restaurants are always bringing new things to market. We just started selling a trout that comes out of upstate New York steelhead trout and
it's a beautiful, farmed, clean fish. Well, you know, we talk a lot about food on this broadcasting on air specifically, and we talk a lot about sustainable farming generally and kind of feeding the world. What's and also about innovation within the food space. What's the innovation in your space or is it you know, the way you gather it's very similar to how it was done ten years ago, twenty years ago, fifty years ago. Yeah. I think the innovation wise with how can us consumers are evolving in
we feel busier. I don't know if we are, but we feel busier. Right. So, um, my particular business, we're focused on ready to ready to heat. So how can I design because the technology is there? Restaurant five star quality meals that are flash frozen twitter to your doorstep, put them in the oven. Twenty minutes later you're having this amazing meal, like a lobster risotto with a teragon butter.
Sounds good, you know. We Yeah, we put together a topino and uh, send everybody the ingredients and I had to do a little bit of work. But you know, we have a lot of home chefs now because of last year, so it's kind of neat being able to
get more creative with the demand is there. Well, it's interesting to what you said that how people have to kind of expand their palette and one of the things that's enabled people to kind of go in a completely different places all of the plant based food and there's plant based shrimp. We're seeing it go into the seafood market as well. What do you think about that? You know, it's funny you mentioned that because it's part of our expansion plant is to get into you know, more plant
and land. Right, we want to be able to serve anyone and everyone based upon their dietary preferences. We're even coming out with a new summer box that includes some vegan burgers. But as it relates to designing you know, vegan shrimp and vegan tuna and even this crazy stuff that's going in labs where they're building a chicken breast
from nothing. Um, that one's peculiar to me. I don't know how people are going to feel about it, but plant based is a big thing, and we should be designing the flavors that people love so that they can feel like they're not missing out. Right, it's a big thing, and am I missing out if I become plant based? And um, it's kind of neat that people can engineer flavors, uh and textures for those people. So I'm all about it well. I love to hear that. Um, we've just
got about forty fifty seconds left here. What kind of summer do you think it's going to be when it comes to sales, when all of a sudden and done just quickly. Yeah, yeah, I'm confidence gonna be great. I'm excited that. Um, the local main businesses are going to be very, very busy this summer, So that's exciting. Um, And I know that people are going to want me to ship them some lobsters, and you know, we love that. I think the catch is going to increase. I just
think we're a couple. We're delayed by a couple of weeks, and slowly but surely everything will kind of get back to normal. You know, the price may or may not change. Some people are telling me it's not going to change. Some people are saying, yeah, it's going to go down. So you know, we just kind of watch and we try to, you know, create value and write be transparent. That was Mark Morrell, founder and CEO of Get Maine. Lobster Like lobster I do. I went to college in Maine.
Did you eat a lot? No? So, I actually I grew up in California. I've never had a lobster until I went to college. And did you like it that when you had it? Yeah? I did like it, and you know, I don't eat it frequently, but um, but yeah, it's the type of thing I could eat it once a year. The tail or, everything, everything. Okay, let's cool. Go for the clause at all. Yeah, lobster rolls too
a lot easier. Impressive, impressive. All right, that reps up that we can addition in a Bloomberg business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Thanks so much for joining us. Everyone. I'm Carol Masso and I'm Tim stead of k Be sure to tune into our Bloomberg business Week daily show Monday through Friday. It starts at two pm Wall Street Time on Bloomberg Radio. You can also watch our daily broadcast on YouTube just search Bloomberg Global News. Also check out
our Bloomberg Business Week podcast. You can find it at Bloomberg dot com, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast. Bloomberg Business Week is available on newsstands now, at Bloomberg dot com and always on the Bloomberg terminal. You can also see me on Bloomberg quick Take. It's available at Bloomberg dot com. Slash qt and streaming platforms like Roku, Apple TV, Samsung TV and more. Have a great weekend and have some lobster. This is Bloomberg.