Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - June 10th, 2022

edition of Bloomberg Business Week. Inflation jitters, economic growth concerns, and anticipation of the Fed's upcoming policy meeting once again front and center as we get ready for what will likely be another half point rate hike this coming week. Okay, you mentioned inflation, Carol. The US Central Bank certainly trying to tame soaring prices. There is some progress, though, being made on another front. Working class Americans are gaining ground

for the first time in a generation. That story in just a minute, and a question of whether it will last. Also ahead, the CEO Plug Power on the company's hydrogen fuel plans for Europe, the latest on the push for gun reform with the Connecticut Attorney General, and our over story our Business Week cover story on the so called Lord of Lenai Oracle co founder Larry Ellison. All of that to come first up though a story in the

economic section of the new issue of Business Week. It begins like this quote, so Faro is on quite a role war inflation, market sell offs for session where he's virus lockdowns in China and record breaking consumer pessimism in the US, plus a new book by inequality expert Thomas Pachetti spotlighting the unfairness of it all. Bloomberg News Personal

Finance editor Ben Steve Verman wrote the piece. He joined us along way Toil Webber, the editor of Bloomberg Business Week, Joel with so much talk of inflation, higher prices across the board, the pandemic, and the challenges. In fact, the bottom of Americans are in a relatively good financial position, at least compared to how they have been in previous generations. Relative really important word, right, But what really stuck out to me in Bin's reporting here is how historic, um,

the gains of the pandemic have actually been. Um. You know the bottom that you know, the US is basically the most unequal developed nation in the world. And what we saw was a glimpse of maybe hope, um, but also these gains that could be incredibly fragile. So so Ben break it down to us what really jumped out to you with these numbers? So yeah, I mean, basically, we've seen a doubling of the net worth of the bottom.

You can kind of think of the bottoms like the working class and there, well they the thing is, they never really have ever had that much wealth, So uh, we're talking about h going up. We're still much less wealth than than the rest of the population has, but doubling is significant, and it means that people have more

cash on hand to emergencies. Um. And I've talked to a lot of people in this situation who've been able to use that money coming from pandemic stimulus and also from the hot job market, and they've been able to make some changes in their lives like maybe moves, maybe go to school, um maybe um uh, just find a career instead of just a dead end job. And that's really that's hopefully, that's something that's that's good that's come

out of this pandemic. Ben One of the things I love also about this story, and this has happened so often in Business Week, is just going to individuals themselves and telling their personal stories just give us a highlight that maybe stuck out for you, UM, because I think that just tells what a difference a higher paying job

can make for some of these individuals. Yeah. So UM, one woman I talked to she was a nanny UH and in March she lost her job UM, and she actually had to tap like an emergency fund set up for domestic workers just so she could move back home with her mom uh and move in with her. But then when the unemployment check started coming in, UM, she was making more than she was than nanny and she was able to really kind of hold out for a good job and make a career shift. And so what

she ended up doing. It took forever there were any jobs for a while, and then it took a while to find the really a good one. But in September one, she started working from home for a tech company doing consuming customer service. She loves it, UM, and she basically doubled her nanny salary. And not only that, she has a path for advancement at this company. UM. I talked to another guy who UM, he had a criminal conviction

on his record and he lost his job. And when this criminal conviction came through and um, she would then just cycled from job to job to job he wasn't able to keep things, he was am able to get jobs, wasn't able to get second interviews when they learned about it. Um. Now he you know, employers are treating applicants differently these days. They're opening broadening up the up application pool, looking for

good people. And now he's working at a hospital. He's basically a janitor, but he this is something he actually thinks he can, he likes and he he thinks he enjoys this work, working talking with patients, working with patients, and he again he sees an opportunity to advance himself at this job. Whereas he go ahead, I want to make sure because when we have a minute left, that we get to the flip side of this and the fragility that Joel referenced in the beginning, because so give

us the context there and what Picketty warrants. Yeah, I mean, inflation, first of all, could eat up all these games, um. And we're still seeing wage games at the bottom that are faster than inflation if you look at twelve months back or so. But that could get with them all away. The other thing that's it's worrying is just raising higher reterest rates, tipping the US into recession, then you have a lot of people out of work again, and we have a much cooler job market and we don't have

the decent kinds of games. Yeah, and the other thing that you don't have time to point out really, but um, that I thought was interesting here is that it came the bottom half. That that game came at the expense of the middle class, which has potentially serious ramifications politically and and beyond. Frankly, but it's you know, one thing goes up and another thing's got to come down, and it's like encouraging and yet at the same time, you know, TBD,

what what other things are play out? Yet? That was Bloomberg Business Week editor Joel Webber, along with Bloomberg News Personal Finance editor Ben Steve Berman, coming up building supply chain, resilience and renewable energy sources when we need them the most. My conversation with the CFOs of Chevron and Flex. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes.

Tim Stenovik from Bloomberg Radio at a Bloomberg Live event this week. It was all about companies thriving in the new normal. It also included a panel I moderated on

volatility and resilience, the call for Greater Agility. Carol caught up with Anya Manuel, the co founder and partner at Rice, Hadley, Gates and Manuel LLC, which specializes in scenario planning and advises the global companies about global markets, Paul Lundstrom, the CFO at Flex It's a global manufacturing supply chain solutions company, and Chevron CFO Pierre Breber. I told them it was an all star lineup to address the big macro issues

that are really impacting our world right now. This conversation, it starts with Anya Manuel, a one time foreign policy advisor under George W. Bush, on what she's telling clients to prepare for in the current economic climate. And resilient are the watchwords we Connolly's a Rice, my other business partners,

and I advised US CEO s on geopolitics. And so it's been an exciting few months and I think the good lesson that most of the CEOs we work with have taken away is they were a little bit blindsided. They didn't quite see Russia coming. I think there's an untold story here that US businesses reacted so well, I mean, really had their values out front, did what they could for their own employees in Russia, in Ukraine went well beyond what the sanctions required and really found their values

as corporations. And that's a really good story. And now what we're doing with a lot of our clients as a follow up is saying, okay, so we did that in Russia. Russia was a tiny amount usually of US companies revenue, but China is a huge chunk of their revenue, and the supply chains run through their everything that talked Paul was talking about. Now we're doing a lot of conversations. How do you make that part of your business more resilient.

How do you think about diversifying and having a pan Asia strategy exactly what Paul talked about, rather than just a China strategy. How careful do you have to be about R and D in China where it's inexpensive and they have great engineers, but spies are likely already in your system and a whole list of things running through indicators.

What are the break glass things that could happen in US China relations that would really make you have to rethink as a CEO whether you need to make sure your expats are safe, what they need to move your operations out of there, or whether you can continue to do business well. And you know, Paul, come on back in on this, because I do think if for anybody who's out there, this concept of near shoring or on shoring is something changing when it comes to globalization, which

we know has benefited so many globally. And many would say it's hard to go back on this, but how do we need to Is there going to be something different going forward about a near shoring and on shoring? Well, I think it has changed, and it hasn't just been the last couple of years. It's it's been for I don't know, at least it Flex, it's been for fifteen years.

You look back thirty years ago and it was you know, manufacturing was it was all about labor arbitract and so you saw a lot of work moving overseas to take advantage of lower labor rates. Interesting status here this is this is just for Flex, but fifteen years ago, fifty six percent of our sales came out of Asia, so it was for export, but it was produced in Asia sent of the business last year thirty seven. So over the last fifteen years you've seen about a twenty point

drop in in production in Asia. Now, does that mean that we're exiting you know, Asia, No, absolutely not. You know I mentioned before, we're going to produce in Asia four Asia, We're gonna produce in Europe for year, We're gonna prouce in the Americans for the Americas, and there's going to be export out of all of those regions as well. But I think it's just as the supply chain to have grown more and more sophisticated, as end customers want their product closer to the end customer, we've

just been repiping the network. So, Pierre, how do you think about this current cycle? As you said, there's boom and bust, certainly in the energy market. How do you think about this one? Is there something different that is shaping strategy or some of the conversations that you're having

with your CEO, Mike Worth. All cycles have similarities fundamentally demand and supply getting out of sink because again they operate on different time cycles, and and yeah, they all have differences of go oh eight oh nine, you know, global financial crisis fourteen fifteen largely specific to the industry

and supply responding, and then and then covid UM. So what does feel different about this one clearly is UH, E S G and and the you know, we we have been an out of favor investment for a long time. I know the energy sector has performed UH well for the last year, but if you go back ten years and for most of the last decade, we've been a flat stock with a growing dividend, but a flat stock in a market that's tripled. And if you go back five years of markets double, then again we were flat

until very recently. So we still have a long way to go to win back investors. But what we're seeing is clearly the constraints on capital investment is a difference. E S G. Investing is a much bigger trend than it was. You know, the last couple of prices that we've had. UM. You have European companies under a lot of pressure to shrink their business. We have not UH. You know, we can tend to grow our traditional business and our new energy business. We think we can do both,

and we know we can move both. But we have some major competitors that are shrinking, getting out of the business. Essentially you have Saudi Aramco, which is a public company. So yeah, there's always some differences, uh that, and it might cause this cycle to stay up longer, but fundamentally it's a cyclical business. We're prepared for a correction. We show our investors what we call downside resilience upside leverage.

So we at fifty dollar brands, so less than half of where we're trading right now in all prices, we can invest in the business. We can grow the business, we can grow the dividend um and have a strong balance sheet, and of course at prices above that will generate excess pre cash flow and we can buy back a lot of shares. So when when old prices were negative,

we knew it wasn't gonna last forever. When all prices over a hundred dollars, and we know that's not gonna last forever either, you know when you said E s G. Because this is one of the other things that people are concerned about that because of the pressures on the system right now, especially in the energy market, that it will slow the transition to all the energy um being agile in this volatile market, you have to still continue to think about kind of where this world is going?

Is that fair to say? Pre and you have to continue to make those investments. Both things are true. So the world's going from seven and a half billion people to nine billion people. Billions of people around the world want greater access to energy, and of course the world wants address climate change in the Paris Agreements and want lower carbon sources of energy. So we can do both,

and we are doing both. Uh. And you see that in the growing production we've talked about earlier this year, and and our Renewal Energy Group acquisition, which we'll do in June. We'll be the largest biodiesel producer in the country. We're gonna grow renewable diesel. Like Paul has customers who want um shorter supply chains, we have stromers who want

lower carbon solutions. So United Airlines wants lower carbon jet fuel, Amazon and Walmart for their trucking fleet, they want lower carbon fuels, renewable natural gas, renewable diesel, conventional diesel that's made with lower carbon hydrogen one day. And so our new energy business, which is focused on renewable fuels, hydrogen, carbon capture and storage, is making great progress. But it is a long transition. It's decades. We talked about the

chip shortage takes a long time. That was Chevron CFO Pierre Breber, Flex CFO Paul Lundstrom and a former State Department official on your Manuel. She's the co founder and partner at Rice Hadley Gates and Manuel. And if you missed any of the conversation or want to hear the full conversation, just go to Bloomberg Live dot com. Still ahead on Bloomberg Business Week, how the n r A sought to suppress data that researchers believed could help prevent

deaths from gun violence here in America. This is Bloomberg Broadcasting from the financial capital of the world, Bloomberg Rio in New York to Washington, d C. Bloomberg to Boston, Bloomberg one oh six one, does San Francisco, Bloomberg nine six to the country Sirius XM Channel one nineteen and around the globe the Bloomberg Business at and Bloomberg Radio dot com. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer

and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stenovin on Bloomberg Radio. All right, good, a question, why is it that as the toll from gun shooting mounds, public health funding to study the problem does not and asking that question and really seeking out a solution is a story found online at business week dot com and on the Bloomberg It looks into how National Rifle Association and r A lobbyists have been curbing

research aimed at preventing gun violence deaths. We talked about it with business Week editor Joel Weber and the journalist who wrote the story, Bloomberg News health reporter Madison Mueller. I had seen some data after the most recent shootings that gun violence had become the leading cause of death and kids and teams under the age of nineteen, and I was like, Okay, well, obviously that's a health issue, UM.

And so started started talking to some experts in this field, people who have been studying it UM about why the US doesn't really treat gun violence as a health issue despite UM the huge mortality impact that it that it has on, especially kids and teams. And it's sort of led me down this path of learning about how you know, Back in the nine eighties and nine nineties, UM, the n r A started lobbying against research and funding from

the US government to study gun violence. UM and you know this is something that could it's really bipartisan, it's evidence based, it is based on science. It really looks into the root causes and and you know why gun violence is happening versus going immediately to policies based on

you know, more political elements. Well, Madison, this is the part of the conversation, I think where we have to talk about J. Dickie, the Republican representative from from Arkansas and the so called Dicky Amendment, because that name just keeps coming up over and over again when we talk

about funding this type of research. Mm hmm. Yeah. So that that was really interesting and uh, sort of surprising, kind of in retrospect because in UM J. Dicky was a member of Congress and he at the time described himself as the n R A point person for Congress, and he really was the one that pushed for UM funding cuts for this research and also for language to be added to the Appropriations bill UH to sort of make sure that the CDC couldn't continue doing this type

of research UM. And it was unclear at the time whether they were completely barred from doing research or whether it was just research that appeared to advocate for gun control and so um, there was confusion and a lot of CDC scientists were sort of scared, Um, this is what you know experts and told me they were scared to talk about gun violence. That to this they thought funding was going to get caught to some other studies, and so it really done. That's when research was heavily restricted.

And years later in J. DICKI actually came out with um, you know, former member of the CDC and said he acknowledged the impact that these funding cards have had on research and on this situation, and you know, said that this is really the only bipartisan approach to this problem, and this and you know, the scientific approach to it

is what we need to do going forward. I do feel like, you know, just some I don't know, not apples to apples Madison, but it does feel like, you know, we've been here before smoking right, What what companies knew and what that the impact had had on people's health. I think I feel like the fossil fuel industry, like there are things we know the impact on climate change

and here we are again. I mean, I gotta tell you, I'm no rocket scientists, but I don't need a lot of research to tell me that you put you know, automatic weapons out there and you know, kids and people who shouldn't be nobody should be impacted by them. And so I just do wonder why why this hasn't had a bigger impact even some of the early research that's been out there. Is it just nobody wants to touch

it politically? Is the n r A that powerful? That's a good question, And I mean I think that that's especially you know that the point you bring up about us knowing and having a lot of information about various things that impact our health and are huge issues, but maybe not taking the action that we need to um to combat them. And you know, I think there's people really don't know. I think what I was experts were telling me is that they have missed out on twenty

years of knowing how to effectively combat gun violence. So because of these you know, research and the funding cuts back in the late nineties, Um, we really don't have the information that we should about this is a health problem, and so it's it's been difficult to craft effective policies around that and to discuss it as a health problem because it just hasn't even really been considered one because it hasn't been being studied as one um and you know,

in recent years the funding has picked back up. There's, you know a little bit of funding, still significantly less than other public health issues, but researchers are really starting to look at this as a health issue again, and the CDC has said that it needs with public health approach, so you know, hopefully that will lead to some more effective change. That was Bloomberg News health reporter Medicine Mueller and the editor of the magazine, Jill Webber. You're listening

to Bloomberg Business Week. Up next, more on guns and another epidemic in the United States, the opioid crisis. Two big things impacting the health and wellness of Americans. We tackle both issues with the Connecticut Attorney General, William tom on the other side. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovik from Bloomberg Radio. So two big issues affecting our time and the safety and well being of our citizens,

guns and opioids. Nearly five hundred thousand Americans died from drug overdoses between nineteen as part of the opioid epidemic. And as far as guns, We've had more than two hundred fifty mass shootings in the United States just so far this year. Unbelievable. Two two. This past week, Carol and Bloomberg Markets Senior editor Mike Reagan spoke with William Tong. He's Attorney General of the state of Connecticut. It's a

state all too familiar with both crises. You were key and helpful in passing gun control measures after the Sandy Hook massacre. I think we all thought after that, Oh, things are going to change dramatically. I'm not even sure what the smart conversation is about gun control in this country. When we see tragedy after tragedy just in the last

month alone, what is the smart conversation? Recognize that this is a public health emergency and an epidemic, and nobody knows it better than Texas right now, and nobody knows it better than Connecticut. You know, it's been barely ten years that we suffered the same tragedy that people and you Bold you are experiencing now. And um, we're grateful for our own home state Senator Chris Murphy, who's leading

the charge in Washington. We do hope that those discussions will bear fruit, but hopeful, but are in the reality? I mean, we're realistic. Why has it become so much a right about bearing arms versus protecting the broader society? No, I don't know. I have a sixteen year old and a thirteen year old and a ten year old, and I think all of us are asking how many more children have to die? I mean, what's what's hard about doing what we have to do to keep our children safe?

What's polarizing? What's political about that? Nothing? Nothing? You know, all of us put our kids on our buses or drop them off at school every single day, and we hope we get them back safe. And and that that hope is is now not a given but in question is terrifying for all of us who have children in this country. And so after Newtown, we took strong action, effective action. We have some of the strongest gun laws in the nation, some of the lowest rates of gun

violence in the nation. After Sandy Hook. It still happens in Connecticut, as it happens everywhere. But we're blessed to have a ban on large capacity magazines um on the A R fifteen. We have um A ban on ghost guns in Connecticut. I wrote, UM, the domestic violence gun law, which a lot of people referred to as a red flag law. I did that before I became Attorney General, when I was sense, so common sense. M hard to

understand what the objections are. But still, William, I wonder you know, if you pass these measures in Connecticut, UM, you still run the risk of some state next door, two states over having looser laws and someone you know, buying a gun there smuggling it in. So it must be frustrating in a way. I mean, ultimately, from where you sit, is this really a job that DC has to undertake? So we we we don't run that risk.

We live there right there. There's the iron pipeline, UM, that comes up from the South to Connecticut and literally people with guns in the back of their trunks and they go in, often into urban areas, and in Connecticut pop the trunk and say what are you looking for? It's terrible and and it's terrible. UM, on some very real level, it's totally nuts that we have a system

like this. And Um, as so many of us have said over and over again, I bet you have in the past couple of weeks this happens nowhere else in the world but here, and um, that were unable to stop stop it, not that we're powerless to stop it. Right. Remember what Remember what Justice Scalia and Justice Alito said in Heller and McDonald, the two big um gun control for lack of a better description cases before the Supreme Court.

They said, states have a role in the name of public safety to regulate gun ownership and gun use, um, to keep people safe. And this is Justice Alito and Justice Scalia saying this. And so if it's obvious that we have a role, then let's take um, let's take on our responsibility to keep people safe. I do want to point out Michael Bloomberg, the founder majority owner of Bloomberg LP, the parent of Bloomberg Radio, and of course Bloomberg Philanthropy is a donor to groups that's up our

gun control, including every Town for Gun Safety. UM. We're talking with William Tong, Attorney General the State of Connecticut. UM. We I do wonder if we see more Americans. I think about what's going on with the board ship where individuals can kind of go after, you know, kind of almost become like public sheriffs, if you will. In going after things or vigilant. If Americans can start and aggressively, so start suing more gunmakers, might that bring about a change?

And should they be allowed to might? And and there's the case against Remington's in Connecticut that broke new ground UM in the law. And basically what the Supreme Court of Connecticut said is that UM people can bring consumer protection lawsuits against the gun manufacturers UM notwithstanding UM the federal law known as Placa, which UM is a huge liability shield for the gun industry. And and so that's

encouraging UM. We you know, we're prepared UM for the Supreme Court to issue a decision in the Bruin case that's coming. So all the focuses on abortion right now and Dobbs, but Bruin is coming to and it affects New York States gun laws, and so that will that may be bad and that may have a direct impact on connecticuts laws. Just kind of segues into opioids because I do feel about like liability, Why is it that you have companies that create products that put so many

Americans at risk? And I think about opioids. UM, you held that with the state settlement in Connecticut um for Connecticut, Base Perdue Pharma, Uh, and the Sackler family and I think doubled or more so the amount in terms of their responsibility. But why is it though, that when it comes down to it, they're not really held liable as individuals or you know what I mean, Like we have these settlements and companies, Well, we did no wrong, we didn't.

They're extraordinarily powerful, these companies because of lobbying that they're extraordinarily well connected. Um they have great lawyers and I'm a lawyer too, and um um they hide behind a system, a bankruptcy system that is broken. And and that's why that's part of the reason why Connecticut continued to fight and held out, as you say, um, when we said the first settlement offer a three billion and then four and a half billion wasn't enough, because um, it wasn't enough.

And it's not just about the money, right, It's about doing justice. It's about not creating the wrong incentives that if you're a gazillionaire and you do something horrible and you kill people, you're in Connecticut. Still that number is going up and more than ten billion dollars in damage every year to one state of three million people. How much money did they make. Yeah, they took out conservatively eleven twelve billion dollars out of the company. You know,

it's much more than that. And by the way, you also know they're getting richer right now by the minute. I'm looking at the ticker tape here right on the screen. Every day they're in the market, they're making more money. And and should the individuals the family be held responsive? Yes, yes, And and we have encouraged UM criminal authorities and the

Department of Justice to do the same. Um. I don't have that authority as the state attorney general in Connecticut, and so I did everything I could to push a deal um that was at four and a half billion, to increase it to six billion as at increase to make them the Sacklers face the victims and have victims and survivors speak directly to members of the Sacklo family. That was a specific ask by Connecticut that that happened.

That was a big deal, you know, William, I'm trying to put myself in your shoes as the state attorney general in Connecticut. And and don't worry, I'm not a lawyer, so no competition. You don't have to worry about me. It is an election here. But but you know, I'm thinking of both of these problems. You're big, big, huge problems you're trying to solve opioids and guns. And in Connecticut, you know that insurance industry is so crucial to the

state of Connecticut. And I'm wondering, is is there any role for insurance companies in both of these issues? And the reason I asked is, you know, when I got a trampoline at my house, I got notified by my insurance company that they were dropping my homeowners because of the trampoline. Is there a case to be made that if someone has an a R fifteen in their house that the insurance company should be alerted. Uh, Or if a doctor is prescribing too much opioids that they're in

malpractice insurance company. You know, given your position in Connecticut with a lot of insurance companies, I wonder if these issues ever come up, and they do. They do. There's a lot of creative thinking around that, around ways in which insurance can step in and require coverage UM. Then there are counter arguments UM that that that somehow infringes on the right UM. And and there are some arguments when you put pressure on the insurance companies that that's

somehow bad for business and bad for the economy. What's interesting, though, is not only does Connecticut have a longstanding and traditional, deep relationship with the insuran industry insurance industry, we also have a deep and long standing relationship with the gun manufacturing industries. Right and on top of that, produce farm of the Sacklers pharmaceutical companies also based in Connecticut. So

a lot of interested parties, for better or worse. That was Connecticut Attorney General William Tong speaking with me and Mike Reagan. We should note that the House of Representatives passed a package of gun legislation Wednesday. It's seen as a mostly symbolic action that ultimately will be set aside for whatever compromise plan emerges from bipartisan negotiations in the Senate.

Should note that Michael Bloomberg, the founder and majority owner of Bloomberg LP, the parent of Bloomberg Radio, is a donor to groups that support gun control, including every Town for Gun Safety, and that raps up the first hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio.

I'm Carol Masser and I'm Tim Stenovik. Ahead. In our next hour, we dive into our cover story on Oracle co founder Larry Ellison and why the welcome that on his private Hawaiian island to paradise does not extend to locals. Just got to say, you also have to check this story out online. We'll tell you more in a moment. We're also gonna speak with plug Power CEO Andy marsh on his company's climate friendly plan to help Europe replace

Russian natural gas. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week Inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and tech news as it happened Sloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio Plenty Ahead in our second hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week, including a new nine figure hydrogen project.

As plug Power looks to help Europe and its reliance on natural gas from Russia, we talk with the company's CEO, plus look at the impact of climate change on our oceans and what can be done to restore their critical ecosystems. First up, we want to get to you the cover story and the Bloomberg Big take, and might we add

the cover image alone is a must see. The stories about Larry Ellison, the oracle billionaire you know him well, who is making his Hawaiian island more hospitable to the super rich but pushing out families that have been there for generations. Sophia Alexander had the enviable task of traveling to Lena and spending some serious time in Hawaii. She's the author of this cover story for Bloomberg Business which she's Wealth Team reporter for Bloomberg News. Joe Weber is

the editor of Bloomberg Business Week. He joins us in the Interactive Broker studio as well. Joel, I want to start with the Lord of Lenai, the cover of Bloomberg Business Week. You do each week tell us how the sausage is made when it comes to the cover, but this one is particularly poignant. So it's a painting of Larry Ellison um in a very you know, provocative kind of pose of of um him sort of as like

almost as a conquisador um. And there's a very traditional Hawaiian vibe to the artwork, which is also reflected in the artwork that we've commissioned for the story on the inside. But you know, the Yeah, let's just say Larry Ellison did not want to participate in the story. UM, so hence why you have to recruit an artist to like make a painting. Um. This one is a really interesting story though, And honestly I knew nothing about this, although I have been to Hawaii to the islands that look

at Lanai and you're like, whoa, what's that island? And Lanai is this amazing story in and of itself because it's basically always been as long as it's been, um, you know, sort of developed and civilized in the you know, quote unquote modern terms. Um, it has really the ownership of that highland has been in very few hands. It was forever a dull plantation. Another dull billionaire basically bought it um and then just a decade ago fell into

Larry Ellison's hands. And for all the conversations that happened about Hawaii, and I think Mark Zuckerberg has gotten a ton of attention for what he's sort of cobbled together. Nobody owns an island. Larry Ellison bought the whole thing. This island is hits and he can basically do with it whatever he wants. But that means the three thousand locals who live there and they rent from him and basically owned from him, have found themselves in a really

difficult position. So, Sophie, you went there, you talked to them. Are what are they experiencing? Yes, So it's interesting because they're used to, uh, their island being owned by a billionaire. There was a billionaire before Larry Allison I owned it, David Murdoch Um, as you mentioned, he was the Dole chairman at the time he took it over, I believe um. But he was what they now call a poor billionaire.

He was worth like a couple of billion dollars compared to Ellison's roughly nine billion dollars on any given day. It's just this amount of wealth is so unfathomable to pretty much anyone, and so they're seeing firsthand what he can actually do with it. Um. So Ellison, you know, he owns pretty much everything, He controls pretty much everything, and because of his massive fortune, he can really like shape this island into what he wants. The other billionaire,

you know, was letting the hotels run down. The community pool is writting down. He just couldn't afford to keep it up. But it's not a problem for Allison. So what is Allison doing? Is he investing, is he propping everything up? And is he embracing the locals? So it depends who who you ask. There are some people who are really happy with what he's done. You know, one person I talked to who is in the story, Gail Allen.

She says, you know, he bought the grocery story and he turned into a mini Whole Foods, which you know, she's very happy about, and a lot of people would be very happy about. But you know, the Whole Foods is like the marker of gentrification after all, Um and a lot of other people on the island are more anxious because the problem is no one really knows what Larry's plans are, and he is very you know, like behind the scenes. The old billionaire who owned it, David Murdock,

he was very involved in the community. He talked to people in the community. But Larry does not engage with the community at all. He's never been into a community meeting. He basically let his company do the talking for him

and even the people who work there. When the people I talked to said, she has no idea what his entire well, I thought was really poignant part of the story when you included the question that one of your one of the people you featured in the story asked about the research that they did with the Monostory school. Is their communication with the established school to make sure that the curriculum actually melds with when these kids graduate and go there. How does that speak to the way

that what's happening on the island isn't perhaps necessary necessarily organic. Yeah, I mean communication, or lack thereof, is the biggest concern among residents, even those who are more in favor of him. They just don't really know what's happening at anyone time. Like so the rumor mill or coconut wireless as it's called is, you know, people depend on it for their news. He owns the community newspaper now too. So, um, we didn't talk about some other exclusive reporting relating to Tom Cruise.

What happened? What happened when Tom came to visit. Yeah, so this was It's a funny story because if you just bring up with anyone on the island. If you're like, do you remember when Tom Cruise visited, They're like, oh yeah, and he flipped his car and you know, a total to crash it. Um his car, not his car, Larry's car. Um. So back in around when Tom Cruise visited the island, he was a guest of David Ellison, who uh Tom works with It's Larry Son on their movies including Top Gun, Maverick,

the the new Blockbuster. I heard of it, um when he came to visit. He was using one of Larry's cars and he was on one of the dirt roads in Lenai and he flipped it, totaled the car, you know, and that kind of thing just is never reported anywhere because this is Larry's island, you know. Our thanks to Bloomberg News Wealth team reborder Sophie Alexander and Business Week editor Joe Webber for breaking down this week's cover story.

You're listening to Bloomberg business Week. Coming up, Plug Power CEO Andy marsh and why his company is ready to spend big and Belgian him and what it could mean for the future of Europe's energy market. This is Bloomberg.

This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovan from Bloomberg Radio Big News this week in the energy markets, plug Power announcing it will open a hydrogen production plant at Europe's second largest seaport, Antwerp Bruges, as the continent turns to what some say is a more climate friendly fuel to help replace Russian

natural gas. For more on the move, we checked in with the president and CEO of the fuel cell systems maker Andy Marsh him up, No, I'm well funded, and you know this energy transition is happening, and you know, first it was driven by CEO two now it's being driven by national security and the port of and and for Cruge is perfect. It is the gateway to Central you're into Germany. It is a place that we can sell hydrogen today and replace natural gas hydrogen with hydrogen

produced by wind power. In the North Sea. They're looking to put over sixty giggle watch a wind power. It's a perfect location. The locations in Belgium's greenhouse gases lots of hydrogen hues today we can substitute easy and it. You know, Europe is changing and moving rapidly. To new energy sources. Well, and this is what I care about,

Like the trends that we're seeing, the timelines. My understanding from the press release from your company, uh Andy, is that you guys will start construction of the plant you're waiting, I guess to complete the permitting process anticipated in late three so end of next year. Initial production of green hydrogen is a expected in late and plant commissioning will be in five So that's three years out approximately give or take a little bit, and you know, and hopes

that there are no delays in the process. So having said that, in terms of this tight energy fossil fuel traditional fuel that we're living in, that continues for some time, right, just based on what you guys are doing and planning for the future, this market we're living in probably stays

with us for some time. Look care I think all of us are thinking about how by the way, I think, let's be straightforward the infrastructure and changing we'll take time, but it's uh three years seems like a long time, and you know, I'll call it two and a half, but you have to start building now for the future.

And how we are not dependent upon nations which aren't liberal democracies for a future energy needs and how we can cooperate with Europe and other areas of the world that believe fundamental free You know, I agree with you not going to be I can't snap my fingers and build this plan tomorrow. I can start building lots of plants today and we can help change that future world today.

And I'm not trying to be a naysayer. I'm just trying to be realistic because as we try to understand like this inflationary picture that that has become so chronic, right and not transitory. Um, I think the world just is trying to figure out, so how long do we stay in this environment? And energy is such a big component to it. There's you know, I think there's lots of creative and I think that you'll see people buy more energy efficient vehicles. There will be moved to electrification here.

I think that there will be folks, greater focus on energy efficiency, will be greater focus on renewables. As you saw the President invoking the Defense Act for technologies like our our like our technology this week. Uh, you know, I think it's going to be a tough struggle the

next year. But companies like Plug are going to come out of it, you know, in a very strong position, with a hydrogen network across the United States, a big foot for it in Europe, and so you know, it may seem like a long time, but we can make

this transition and we have to. Andy. I want to talk a little bit about the environmental impact of hydrogen, and there was a story Bloomberg Big Take, and it says that the miracle fuel hydrogen can actually make climate change worse because scientists are warning that hydrogen leaked into the atmosphere can contribute to climate change much like carbon. Depending on how it's made, distributed, and used, it can even make warming worse over the next few decades, even

if carbon foss is the biggest long term threat. What are you doing at plug power to make sure that hydrogen is not escaping into the air. I think that's I think there's two alams. One is that and I'm going to take a step back, and you know there

are different points of views on that article. Uh, we're working very closely with uc Irvine to make sure that the science is right, and you know it's we you know, they've done work that goes back as far as two thousands and three, and they probably are less concerned with those issues. That being said, I have two reasons to worry about that, to make sure from a design point of view, that we don't leave hydrogen that's lost money for one, and the second one is obviously you don't

want to cause more damage to the environment. I think the environmental impact is less than has been stated, but you have to be concerned about those things, especially in industries like hydrogen. But you know, that's really where our focus is, work with some of the best universities in the country, work on our designs, make sure that every kilogram of hydrogen we produce actually goes and do a productive piece of equipment. And so that's really our thoughts

about that. Well, I mean, are you're building this, you know, expansion in Europe's energy supply in the port of Antwerp Bruge. Uh, you're building that from the ground up, right, that is correct? So what is the technology that you're using to make sure that none of this leaks into the atmosphere? Because he said it's not just a bad for the environment, it's lost money. Like, what are you doing from a

design standpoint to make sure that doesn't happen? You know, Tim, I I guess it's not you know, and my engineers probably say it's I would say it's it's not different. It's good engineering. It's not good side. It's making sure that you know that you're keeping pressures at the right level so it doesn't leak into the atmosphere. Uh. That's really kind of one of the key I ums you need to think about when you create hydrogen and liquid form.

So there are methodologies that exists today that we incorporate and work we're doing today, uh, which will prevent hydrogen from leaking. So help me out, Andy, Like I know, it's been a tough market environment, certainly financial market environment. And if I look at your stocks down about so far this year, there's a about eleven of the float is being shorted at this point. Shares, I will point put out, though, are up more than since a recent low. Uh.

And I think around May eleventh or so. What can you tell us about your business globally demand and growth of the top line. I am curious if people watching these geopolitical are all of a sudden calling you saying we need to do something, We need to do something now, So give us some context, if you would I think that's really an interesting point. One. You know, we expect to hit our numbers for this year, which is million

dollars in revenue, almost doubling. We have closed over one gigawatted borders for our electricalizers already, which is more than we predicted for the year. That's Andy Mars, She's is it in CEO of Plug Power silt Com. On Bloomberg Business Week, we marked the thirty year anniversary of World Ocean's Day and get a firsthand account of the failing health of our seas and what y s G investors

can do to help. This is Bloomberg Broadcasting from the financial capital of the world, Bloomberg eleven Rio in New York, to Washington, d C. Bloomberg to Boston, Bloomberg one of six one to San Francisco, Bloomberg nine six to the country Sirius XM Channel one nine and around the globe the Bloomberg Business and Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stenovan on Bloomberg Radio. It was United Nations World

Ocean's Day this past week. Many countries celebrating the occasion for the past thirty years, looking to raise global awareness of all the benefits we get from the ocean and really our collective duty to protect it and ensure its sustainability. Here with the sobering impact of climate change on our oceans and how it's not actually too late to change course.

Is Dr Deborah Brosen and Marine scientists, environmentalist and the president of Deborah Brosening and Associates, and it's an international scientific consulting firm. I think the clock is speaking for our oceans. Kyl. You've talked about the changes you've seen when diving. I've seen a lot of those changes too, and it's tragic. It is very upsetting to go back to these areas and see the loss of coral reefs, for loss of fish and the emptiness in the sea.

I think a lot of people don't go underwater and unaware of how drastic and how rapid these changes have been. In the last ten years, we have lost so much by diversity. Half of the coral reefs are pretty much gone of fish stocks, either overexploited or exploited. So it is the alarm belts have been ringing and people are finally taking notice, we really do have to step up. The moment is now we have not a second to lose.

What can we anticipate when it comes to oceans which feed so many and are such a key part of the food chain. You know, what can we anticipate in the next coming years, because I think it's going to be very difficult, you know, in terms of keeping temperatures and the rises to a couple of degrees or even that is going to continue to have a pretty significant impact. So what can we as global citizens anticipate when it

comes to our oceans and the and the impact of that. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right, is that these changes are already under way, and that we're seeing parts of the ocean get warmer. We're seeing all the parts of the ocean, the facility and the ocean increase, and the currents are now beginning to change. So for many of us, what we can expect is to see a distribution change and

distribution of many of the species that we're used to seeing. So, for instance, both on the East and West coast, we're seeing a lot of the salmon moved north, and for fishermen who traditionally depended on salmon, in these areas, those stocks are declining, so we can expect to see drastic changes in the ocean, both in this tribution and abundance of species, and that in turn affects us directly, not

just in fisheries, but take for instance, coralonies. So coral reefs are off the coast of Florida, there and all the tropical areas of the world. A healthy reef breaks ninety percent of ale waves action. And what that means is that when you get a storm or a storm surge, that these reefs prevents the waves from coming in coming in ashore. They protect people, they protect property, and they keep standing on the beach, so they protect us. They

make sure we have nice beaches to walk on. As we're seeing the decline in reefs and these reefs are collapsing, what we're seeing happening in the ocean is of the value of the services of these colonies used to provide us are now disappearing. Added to that, these reefs provide habitat for fish species and turtles, and that habitat is declining as well. So our oceans are right now are

not on a good trajectory. Dr Brason, what do you hear from the E s G community, which we repeatedly I often say, it is you know, tim to you like it's going through a reckoning. There's so much money going into the E s G space, and yet you know, it does feel like investors are saying, wait, we want more clarity about what these investments are. It could more clarity when it comes to E s G investing help certainly the pursuit of what you guys are doing UM

and and what people are doing to protect the oceans. Yes, definitely I agree with that E s G is is a catch all right now, and for a lot of businesses, a lot of companies, it's very hard to understand exactly what what are the metrics and do these metrics make any difference to the environment and also to the bottom line, how do those two fit together. I think we urgently

need more more clarity in the s G world. UM. For instance, if we look at the ocean as a sector and we can break down into subsectors, being able to identify clear metrics in the s G that are relevant to the particular industry, whether it's fishing, whether it's transportation, would provide clarity. It would provide standards that people could could look at and a tier two and a way for people to really be able to distinctan what's real and what's green washing? You know, our lifetimes, has it,

I mean, has it? Has it? Trying to figure out the wright way to ask the startup president? Has it? Has it reversed and started to get better? Are we had the worst place now than ever before? I mean for the whole ocean? I am sorry to say I think it's gotten worse in our lifetime. You know that's really distressing to me because it's not like we're just learning about this, No, it's not. This is these alarm bells have been ringing for a long time and the

rate of decline is accelerating. On the other hand, if you take areas of the world, um, both in the US, Australia, around the world, there there are pockets where we're seeing a really big shift in and basically trying to recover these oceans, and we're actually seeing success, whether it's a marine protected areas, changing fishing practices, we are literally seeing

things get better. It's the rate of which it will get better and the and the scale of the improvements that we have to pay attention to that was Dr Debra Browsen and a marine scientists to any President of International Scientific Consulting Company, Deborah Brosden and associates. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week coming up tips on how to elevate your outdoor cooking A guy to summer grilling with our Bloomberg Pursuits team. I hope you're hungry? Are you

a griller? Oh? Yeah, well, I mean it's hard to do in New York City. I guess you don't have outdoor space, which you don't. But I like to brield stuff, don't we? All? This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. Every when you watch is like a new piece of arts. It does in different stories to tell the time. Wines as a whole really speak to that. Quintessential Need is the most powerful car made

in the US period. You get the beautiful interior, the iconic design that's very cheek and posh. Even if you pay for it. It's something that can get Time Now for a weekly dive into the Pursuit section of Bloomberg Business Week magazine. It's always a favorite moment for all of us. You'll probably be a bit hungry after this segment, you actually said to me after you read it. Tim, I was reading this on the subway end this morning, and it's like, I don't care if it's only you know,

eight am, but I want some grilled meat. Okay, let's welcome in our resident foodie, the food editor for Bloomberg Pursuits, the one and only Kate Crater. She's here with us now, and she's got some amazing tips and treats for your summer barbecue plans, also for you veggie lovers, and some good tips to about what to drink that doesn't have alcohol in it this summer, some refreshing things. Don't worry,

there's plenty here for everyone. Kate. I want to start with the meat though, no, no, no, First we have to say okay, sorry, sorry, sorry, you know we want to know we are always so interesting and how this comes together, Like does Joel Webber, the editor of Bloomberg Business We come to you and like, hey, Kate, we gotta do a grill story And you're like, oh no, not another girl story, or do you it's summertime, Carol, Like, how does it come together? Carol? I feel like you

were there in the room where happened. Jill Webber is a confirmed grill addict, and so any chance we get to report some good grill news, he's there for. And it really is, you know, every year, every year it's sort of like you're kind of like No. Nine other grill story. Then you find things to get excited about. And it really is the way you want to entertain and eat in the summer. You know, you want someone

maybe you want to do it. Maybe you're the guy or the girl or the person who wants to stand in front of the grill, or maybe you just want to eat the food that someone else is making. But it's the time. It is the time for somebody to fire up a grill and start cooking. Okay, when we're talking about the grill, though, we're not just talking about the classic Webber where you throw some you know, charcoal briquettes on there. Now, some of the people you feature

have six different grills. You're talking about my history, guys. Things. The thing that's exciting, like one thing that we did this year that I think is kind of fun and if you talk to chef, you'll find every couple of years somebody gets up us with live fire. And it's a phrase that you hear, but what it means is really the art of cooking over fire. And people, you know, anybody presumed like anybody can really throw um some meat

like Tim is him is craving right now. You can throw a Tomahawks steak or some ribs on the grill and serve them to somebody in you know, in an amount of time. But if you're really into it, you sort of watch the you watch the flames. You've watched the wood. You watch the would like evolve and and flame up and then gradually evolved, and the flavor that

you get from that wood changes as it goes. And so this guy Chris Shepard, who's a phenomenal chef in um Houston, he has um a bunch of restaurants and he's also become a sort of live fire addict. He got it from watching a masterclass from Aaron Franklin, who has Franklin's Barbecue, who which has the longest line president of Aamaston on that line um. And he didn't masterclass um about about barbecue, but he got into live fire, and Chris Sheppard in turn got into live fire and

started correcting collecting grills like a maniac. And the best one that he got, which is the one more sort of the most obsessed with um, is made by a place called Mill Scale Metalworks, which is in Texas. And the genius of it is that it has multiple layers that you can move up and down so you can hang chickens from the very top of it, which is um.

It's called a fire pit. So the top of it, it's probably about eight feet away from the fire, so the chicken can sit there and smoke, and then you can put directly on the flames to get like super crisp skin from it. And Chris Shepard said it's the best chicken he's ever had ever in his life. I have to say because it's the cover. The picture is the cover of Pursuits, and kat is like artwork, like

the multi tiers. It's really beautiful. But I get the concept right of like grilling at different heat and levels and getting the smoke. It's it's really very smart. I will it's like you know what, it's kind of like what what we came up with is that it's sort of like the zan of fishing. Anyone who's really into fly fishing, there's a time like where you're so focused it's like peaceful, but it's also this big moment of concentration where you go deep on a subject. And that's

exactly what this is. And the beauty of this side of fire pit um, the Chris Shepherd has shouted out is that you really can experiment with different kinds of heat and the different flavors you can get from cooking things, whether you want to put them in the ashes or rise them up, and how it affects you know, this gorgeous steak that you bought. Can we just say that Chris Shepherd right, doesn't have a new restaurant. It's called Wild.

I'm reading from this to and guys and his and he was so inspired by the work he was doing in his backyard. He got a grill for it. It's called grilling Nelson. There it is. I want to go. I wanna go eat some tomahawk from grilling grilling Nelson. Speaking of tomahawks, Kate, what what what should people be grilling this summer? How should people think about not just entertaining, but but when they're grilling for their family. I mean

that is that's the question. And um, the trick this year is you want to go big, So speaking of tomahawks and like big pork shoulders and stuff like that. And we talked to the women who have um Quitcher Girls, which is out jobs Scarry, and they say like everyone's like, oh, I'm gonna make it simple, and then they end up grilling like twenty chicken cutlets or all these like a little individual steaks and that ends up being a ton

of work. So what you want to do is go big, like go big like your tomahawks chop that we're going to make for you, Tim. Because the other good thing about that is that you don't have to sit there and micromanaged to grill. You can walk away. You might even be able to pour yourself glass of wine and

then you can come back. And I mean you shouldn't stay away too long because you don't want to burn you know what, there is there is an exporration date on that, but you want to you have the opportunity to cook like this gorgeous big piece of meat, like a big roast. And then that's also the kind of thing that looks terrific if you're gonna put it on Instagram. You have a bunch of is it ten points or so that you guys like lay out from sauces and

the importance of air. What do you think? You know, just just play with some that that you think are really important for our audience. Yeah. No, I think it's really fun. I think it's like so cool to think about like all the different components. And you know what, I think there was like eight maybe No, we did have tenure, right, UM that give you different aspects of

like everything about outdoor entertaining. UM. And so Michael Salomanof who is a fantastic Israeli chef based in Philadelphia, he just opened up a restaurant called Lazy Wolf in Brooklyn that has the best view of Manhattan. Um, we all have to go. It's it's really it's one of the supersonic new restaurants in New York. But he is doing UM Israeli style UM skewers and meats that are cooked

over charcoal. And he talks about how in Israel, the girl experts they know how important airs and so they've got their hair dryers that they use to activate UM. The holes in the wood and I am really sorry we don't have a picture of that in the magazine. I just love the name of the restaurant, liaser Wolf. I'm there. It's it's in Williamsburg, right, And it's in Williams. That's exactly right. It's in the Hopston Hotel and really, um, you should you just have to go. It's so um.

It is one of those quintessential New York things. If you're like what screens New York and I get to eat Ilyssa's food, I will say laser Wolves. Okay, there are some great tips in here, but at the end of the day, if you're overwhelmed and you just want to fake it, there's also an option for that. Yes, never forget that. You can you like it is. It's so fun. I mean, you can go deep on grilling, or you can let somebody else do it and just

like hang out and have a good time. And so we came up with a bunch of like really good options for that. Um. Nashville's um like porker gives you hickory hickory pull poor, which like does not. I'm not even hungry right now, and I got I just got hungry talking about it and then um, there's also these like crazy giant beef short ribs that you can get from Louis Barbecue, who are like these fantastic old school

barbecue experts. Um. So you can also like go through the magazine and you can find these people who will do all the work for you and then you get all the glory done. That's what my husband loves to grill. He's a smoker. He's really into this bilm just like we could order in you know, honey, all right, tell me about for all the vegetarians out there, and I love when I get charred vegetables, tell us a little

bit about that because that's part of the section. I'm yeah, I'm kind of I'm kind of thrilled with this trend. This is a trend that we've seen coming up in restaurants. I saw it in a mind of New York City restaurants and then found out it was nationwide. And it's grilled salad. And it's really counterintuitive because you know, like mostly chefs serve you as salad, they shout out the freshness of it, like it can have come from the

garden to the plate fast enough. But in this case, in this case, it's the opposite chefter like taking the time to throw greens on the grill and it sounds like a hot mass no pun intended, but in fact, if you do it right, I just thought of that. Do it right, Um, it's so good as like an extra layer of flavor. You get almost like a caramelized like a little bit of smoke and a little bit

of a caramelized char on certain lettces kick greater. You always take us to incredible places, tell us about unbelievable things that are happening in the food world. Do you always make us hungry and thirsty? But we so appreciate it. Have a great weekend our thanks to Bloomberg Pursuits food editor Kate Creator for joining us with her team's guide to outdoor entertainment for the summer. Are you hungry, Tom, I'm hungry and I'm thirsty. Alright. That wraps up the

weekend edition to Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm Carol Massar and I'm instead of it. Could be sure to tune into Bloomberg Business Week Radio Monday through Friday. It starts at two pm. Wall Street time on Bloomberg Radio. You can also watch your daily broadcast on YouTube. Just search Bloomberg Global News and check out our Bloomberg Business Week podcast. You can find it at Bloomberg dot com, Apple, or

wherever you get your podcast. Bloomberg Business Week is available on newsstands now at Bloomberg dot com, slash business Week, and always on the Bloomberg terminal, and you can also see me on Bloomberg Quicktake available on Bloomberg dot com, slash qt, and streaming platforms like Roku, Apple TV, Samsung TV, and more. Have a great weekend, everyone, do some grilling, just gonna put that out there. Do some meeting that you will read too. This is Bloomberg