Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - February 8th, 2020

definitely front and center the whole world looking at it. Well, and not to mention the Iowa Caucuses, which we thought, okay, that'll give us some clarity, it gave us exactly the opposite. And coming up, I was gonna say, if there was a theme this week, it was uncertainty on so many different levels, and that really played out in the magazine

and certainly with a lot of conversations we had. So we're gonna bring you all of that in the first hour and next hour we're gonna bring you highlights from our trip last week to the Bloomberg Power Player's Summit down in Miami. We're gonna hear from the owner of the Buffalo Bills as well as John Skipper. He used to run ESPN, now he runs to Zone And now this week's cover story, let's understand what's underneath it. This

is the big story of the week obviously. Here's editor Joel weber Man versus microbe and arresting cover to say the least, on a really important story. How did you get there? Yeah, this was the story of the moment, really right, and we've seen it just continue to capture attention worldwide as this virus has spread. Our measures have been largely adequate so far in terms of containing it, you know, and China has been very aggressive and sort

of quarantining, as have the US. But there's a bigger problem here that I think this story really addresses, which is we don't have a long term focus around incentivizing anyone to deal with these things in a really proactive way. It's always fire, fight, fire, fight, fight, or fight, And the drugs aren't working and the viruses are becoming more prolific and spreading faster. Well, I think that's a really and you guys asked the question are we ready for it?

And it's obviously that we're not, because all of a sudden, we are chasing a vaccine, And you do talk about incentives, and I think that's a really interesting component to this, that the public sector policymakers need to be involved, not

not just the public sector, but the private sector. Right, there's no incentive for a drug maker to put down everything it's working on and immediately scramble something in the market, especially when you know, the patents become someone of an issue, which we saw pop up here with China this week. So I think the real question here is like how as a society do we deal with this, Like microbes aren't going away. They've been with us for a really

long time. We've actually gotten very good at fighting them. But that's a recent phenomenon, you know, polio, that's only a hundred your history with our success in that matter, and as these things proliferate, we're not ready for it. All right, Joe Weber, thank you so much. A really powerful look from a number of different angles at this. And well, companies are warning that they may be hit. It still might be too early to tell. And that

brings us to this week's remarks. Here's Economics editor Peter coy. He wrote those remarks taking a look at the economics so far and where we may go. How did you get into this? I mean, it's the obvious question, where is this going. I'm focusing less on the death toll, as serious as that is. That was more the other story in the package, more in the economic consequences. So the surprising thing is if you talk to people at Bloomberg Economics, people like Tom Rolick, they're saying the outcome

is likely to be fairly modest. So they're saying that they predict that for the full year, China's GDP should go about five point seven, which only two tenths of a percentage point less than they had predicted before the outbreak of the virus. And that's in their baseline scenario. If things are a little worse, let's say they can't contain it, they're there their worst not quite worst case

in theari, but they're somewhat worse. Scenario is that contained in the second quarter, that'd be five point six GDP growth for the years old. So what they're predicting is that this will be contained and then there'll be a v shaped recovery, downs deeply and then right back up again. But I feel like the conversation initially was like you know, this might just be a little bit of I'm a blip, but I feel like it's turned a little bit Peter to what we don't know, what we don't know kind

of thing. There's still a lot of questions out there. There are certainly a lot of questions, and Tom Raleck and team are the first to admit that things could turn out differently. You know, if you're an economist, you kind of got to go with what you have at the time, and that's what they've come up with. But as my story gets into there are a lot of ways in which this could turn really sour, and the obvious one is that the virus is less containable than predicted.

So far, we've seen spreading to dozens of countries already deaths outside of China. China, of course itself is by far the worst hit, especially Hubei Province and Wuhan, but we're seeing cases Europe, Asia and uh of course North American United States well. And one of the things to the point of the unknown unknowns is is even in countries like Kimbodi and the Philippines, they've essentially been saying, you know, it's not a big deal, and yet they're

just maybe cases. We don't know. That's that's really scary because you know, certainly the United States, Western Europe have highly sophisticated technology for monitoring and testing. Some of these countries don't. And so China is special in that it has uh the worst outbreak, but also the ability to pose draconian restrictions on its own population, a lot of

shut this thing down. You go to another country with a weak health public health infrastructure and a lack of that ability, and you can easily imagine the disease raging out of control. I also think once we hopefully get beyond this right and new cases and hopefully it's it's um minimal, you know, ultimately uh, and that the economic impact is reduced as well. But I do wonder about, as you say, kind of the long term consequences on

the relationship between US. Funny, we've had some US officials make some comments that certainly feel like they're well see. Of course, the chi America, the tight union between the China and the United States, which benefited both countries, is becoming apart already over US concern about job loss, the heightening military contest between the two countries. Trump's trade war and so on. This becomes yet another thing that would tend to drive these two world's two largest, most powerful

economies apart. And you can imagine that lasting even after this virus dies down. And that's Economics editor Peter Coy a very smart take because aside from the obvious human tragedy here, the economic implications are still very much unknown, right, And that's exactly what he gets into. Despite people putting out numbers and projections, you have to remember that there is still so many things that could make it a

very different outcome. The comments heard around the financial world it happened late last year, saying it one billionaire someone who was among the most successful money managers in America, Jason. We're talking about Ken Fisher, and he took a big hit as a result, big institutional investors pulling their money. And yet here he is grinding on the retail machine. And Sabrina Wilmer and Jena Lauren, they describe everything that's happened and described the state of play and where it

may go from here. Sabrina's here with this in New York, phenomenal story. You have been following this from the beginning, really from those first comments remind us how we got here. In October, Ken Fisher spoke out of San Francisco conference and he made some sexual remarks which caused a person to go on to Twitter and express how upset he was about the remarks, and then other people came forward

and it just caused a lot of anger among people. Um. And then I actually interviewed him shortly after that, and he said he said those types of words, um, but they were taken out of context, and that he said similar things in the past many times and nobody questioned it. And then following that, some of some big institutions started pulling money, like Goldman, Sacks and Fidelity, and about four billion left the firm in a month. But you know,

I gotta tell you what blew my mind to. Yes, four billion dollars sounds like a lot, but from what I understand, he still manages about billion dollars. He still manages a lot of money, and assets have actually grown since the crisis, and part of that has to do with the stock market, and he puts a lot of his retirees mostly in stocks, so that helps. And I mean, this story kind of takes a step back and looks

at how he built his business. He's quadrupled assets since two thousand nine, and a lot of that has to do with his marketing and sales operate. Step back, though, A lot of who invests with him, though, are individual investors. Like that's mind everybody that even though a Goldman and a Fidelity pulled out some money, the bulk of his investments at a hundred and twenty one billion is individual investors, right,

It's mostly individuals across the country. And I interviewed some of them for the story and asked them what they thought about Ken's remarks, and one woman that I quoted said she doesn't really mind what he said, and she thought that political correctness has gone too far, and what she cares about is how her portfolio is doing, and

she's pleased with the performance in the portfolio. So you went out to see Ken and some attorneys out in California and take us there, because even the way you described the scene is really really well done because it speaks to essentially what he's very successfully built over decades. Yeah, I mean, he's very different from anybody else in finance, and his whole thing is to basically try to get away from Wall Street and he tells customers, you know,

you can't trust you can't trust brokers and hit. This location that I went to is as far away from Wall Street as you can get. I took an uber all the way up this you know steep mountain with you know redwoods, and you could see half Moon Baye

from there. It was beautiful, but it's not the place that you would imagine, you know, a multibillion dollar asset manager UM running their operations like it's sort of a compound on the Yeah, And when I got there, I thought maybe I was in the wrong spot because I just saw this sign saying Country Store and then the it's it's kind of the office is set back where you can't really see it from the street and there's really nothing around you don't you just hear tweeting? Uh?

So when I went in there, I mean, it's beautiful views. You see this bowl in a bear and bear statue out on the patio. UM, But that's not where you were in the right place, yes, but that yeah, that's that's where he started. Uh you know, that's where his first headquarters was UM and he actually lived in that office with his family. So what I think is cool is you got some time with him, and I'm curious about what he had to say about everything that happened.

And you know, I think there's been some concerns about culture at his company as well. So what did he have to say about all of this? Because he really I think you're right in saying he hearkens back to a different era in Wall Street. I'm not forgiving it. I'm just saying a different time, right, I mean, he he apologized a number of times for what he said. He still said that his words were taken out of context. He also said that the media was in part to

blame for some of these outflows. He said that some of the institutions probably wouldn't have pulled money if it wasn't for pressure from the press. Um. In terms of his culture, he said that he uh, you know, he

he disputes the boys club type description. And I did interview a number of employees who described this sort of boys club And you know how Ken's words were part of this macho environment, particularly with some of the salespeople to count executives, and he he hires these people right out of college, and from my interviews, these people had a lot of like a frat boy type, you know, attitude, and you can kind of see that in my story

through some email exchanges in one incident. Well, and it's interesting too because you do really go deep into this culture that is, as Carol says, sort of hearkens back to this very you know, almost cinematic like cell Cell Cell. I mean, I think do you have a line in the story which is great because it really evoked it for me. It's like a David Mammott play, you know, just like always be selling, you know, two plus calls a day, and it has been, to be fair an

incredibly successful model. You know, this sort of blanket marketing approach has won a lot of customers. That's right. I mean it's it's a big part of his whole business. I mean, Ken Fisher came back and basically said, well, there's more to my business than just sales. It's about the customer service. And you do hear about that from some of his customers just they love the luncheons that

he puts on. And um, so he's talking about how it's and then he talks about his performances right well, and well and he sorry, I just want to follow up on that because you know, part of what he's selling is a fairly high fee product in a world that's getting closer and closer to free for money management. So it's anachronistic in some way. That's right, because you know he is an act even though he disputes us,

he is an active manager. They pick stocks, but he says that, oh, this is what we do different We we provide service to and advice unlike other companies. So that's kind of there his argument um, but it is kind of I think it is based on my reporting.

Most of this has been driven by marketing, because he's written all these books too, and you know you kind of recognize him from the ads that he puts out bashing annuities, and to be fair, I think we Bloomberg at different times have certainly run his ads on our media properties and as a guest as well. So let's get to it. I mean, that's a lot of money to have under management, and it hasn't got away, even though there's some controversy over those comments. There's been some

charges about how money is managed. What has been his performance? What kind of performance returns have we seen from him? Well, it hasn't been spectacular. If you look at the ten year performance he does. They have a specific benchmark that they said, it's not the SMP it's m s c I Global Index, And on a tenure basis, it actually misses the benchmark. Three and five year basis, it beats it by one percentage point um. The shorter term it's been beating, but longer term it has not. Yes for

the ten year, right, so it's kind of mixed. So what was your takeaway from all this? I mean, you've you've followed it literally from from the beginning, You've covered the money management industry for for a long time. As you finished this story up, what do you make of it? It was an unusual process, um, And I've yeah, I've

never kind of encountered this situation before. Um And I mean, this is kind of a shift in financial sort this says where people are starting to speak out about uh, you know, sort of uh you know language, sexual language. And I think this marks like a maybe a turning point um for the financial services industry where people are held accountable. So that's part of what I learned. It was just a very interesting process. Yet he's still very successful,

still managing a lot of money. I mean, that's that's right. I mean, I I think most of the outflows have already happened, so it's really yet to be seen how the company internally is going to change. He is vowed not to say these types of things ever again. Um, they've started Diversity and Inclusion task Force and that's just starting to get off the ground, So it's yet to

be seen what's going to happen with that. You know, one of the things that struck me, you know, knowing and following your work very closely over the years, Sabrina, is that you know, you have a keen understanding two of the difference between institutional and individual behavior, and that

does seem to be at the core of this. Right, you know that institutions are feeling more and more pressure, public pressure to act in a certain way, and yet you have individuals in this case, it feels like who are essentially saying, listen, if the guy's making me money. You know, it feels almost like a political statement to some extent, Right, that's right. And if you go on social media after this, you can see the divide on this. I mean, some people reacted saying, oh, what Ken's side

is wrong? And other people were like, this is political correctness gone too far. So it was a very it is a political divide, right. That's Sabrina Wilmer and Jason. What I love about this she's been covering this story since last ball when ken Fisher made those comments that really were heard throughout the financial world, and looks at the repercussions. What I love is she's met with the man.

She's talked with Ken Fisher, she went to his company and really digs into who he is, his background, and also takes a look at the company culture well, and that company culture and really just the relatively novel way that they have marketed. That's what's gotten them to a hundred plus billion dollars and there are some questions as to how it all works, and so much of that, of course is individual investors were not We're talking about

the retail community, that's right, not the institutional community. This week, caucus chaos, a technical glitch in Iowa up ended the opening act of the Democratic presidential primary. Plus China coronavirus outbreak has triggered an unprecedented travel band to and from

the world's second largest economy. We break down the potential impact on global markets only one of our big stories this week and Business Week Talks, we speak with Verizon CEO Hans Vestberg on the company's partnerships with Apple Music and Disney Plus and Amazon. First up, the caucus. Here's Josh Green. He was there and now he's back in d C. That's where he joins us. He writes on the mess that Iowa made. The ramifications of this are

going to be widespread. They already are in many ways. Josh, what is going on? Uh? Well, nobody really knows. I mean that the Iowa caucuses, which traditionally, uh you know, shape the field, winnow the lesser candidates and deliver two or three winners who typically go on to become the nominee. Instead, this year, the entire process broke down on caucus day. Uh. There was a faulty app, a bug in the code. It's days later. Uh, you know, we're just now getting

what looked like full election results. And on top of all that, the takeaway is a virtual tie between a modern and radical uh, somebody who draws older voters and younger voters. So essentially, the Iowa caucus settled nothing at all. Uh, And now the whole party moves on to New Hampshire. Well, they move on to New Hampshire, but they also missed an opportunity, right, Josh, Because um Iowa was often seen as a launching pad, whether it's for fundraising, with it's

for media coverage. I mean this is an important or usually an important first step. Yeah, that's right. I mean, look, the party really really screwed up here. I mean, typically the winner of the Iowa caucus gets a bump in national polls of about twelve percent. You get glowing media coverage.

Very often, you get millions and millions of dollars as a candidate, and a lot of candidates, especially those who don't have a big fundraising apparatus, count on that in order to be able to to to move forward and have a viable path to the nomination. So if you're someone like Pete Buddha Judge who doesn't have a ton of money but but looks as if he performed well in this campaign, if he'd gotten a clean win, he could have been that guy rocketing to the top of

the polls. Bernie Sanders, if he had gotten a clean win, you know, he could have really pushed aside other people in the field and set an emerging narrative that the Democratic race is taking a big shift to the left instead.

It's still not clear exactly who won a functional it was a tie, but because there weren't clear results, it also didn't force out some of the weaker candidates who underperformed, like Amy Klobascher, Joe Biden Well and Josh I want to take you back to the screw up itself because you documented an effort by the Democratic Party last year to really engage in a much more sophisticated technical, high tech way that was underneath all of this tell us

about that. Well, you know, basically both parties are looking to modernize and Democrats have invested a lot of money and trying to improve their technology. The the breakdown in the caucus process stem from an app, uh and I got an exclusive interview with the CEO of Shadow Inc. Which is the company that built the faulty app, and got him to explain to us essentially what happened on this nightmare caucus day, how it broke down, and where

that left Democrats. But where it left Democrats is looking very badly. I mean, the process failed in the fact act that they can't run a caucus when they're trying to make an argument that they should be given the reins to the country and Alice, Donald Trump isn't a good look for Democrats and as I said, does nothing to clarify who the eventual nominee could be. We might even be headed for a contested convention, which would be

unprecedented in modern American politics. And that's Josh Green always

a treat to catch up with him. He is exactly who we wanted on the ground in Iowa, especially when things went awry, and you were the first to really connect the dots, and he certainly connected the dots while he was out there, because this was meant to be this amazing evolution, almost revolution in the Democratic Party using technology in a way that the Trump campaign did back in twos sixteen to really take this process to the

next level, and it went exactly the other direction. Think about the conversations we've had this week Um talking about Silicon Valley, how they are considered certainly UM big supporters of course of the Democratic Party. So you would think the Democratic Party would have the latest and greatest when it comes to technology, and yet to see this debacle play out in the Iowa caucus is um, just kind of blows your mind. And I feel like it was one of these things that over the course of the

week we kept waiting. It's like, Okay, are the results out yet? Are they out yet? I mean I was reading something that said some people just had to put it in the mail, you know. So it goes from basically relatively low tech to potentially high tech to the lowest of low tech, and candidly it robbed. As you heard Josh say, a lot of the potential front runners from a fundraising boost and any sort of momentum going

into New Hampshire. I love in his story and I think this is just a really kind of smart bottom line on what he wrote. Josh wrote. He says a full year of campaigning has done nothing to settle the central debate within the party between those who believe a nominee muste left word to excite and attract new voters, and those who believe that such a course would guarantee

President Trump. Another term I was neck and neck finished between budaj the moderate and Sanders the radical is the parties can nundrum uh that you know has come to life and right, the party still has not kind of come behind who they need to be going forward to beat the president. Well, and you couldn't have predicted worst timings in and you couldn't have predicted worst timing in many way for the Democrats. It comes on a week

where the president is acquitted. The President gives his State of the Union address, which for a president in a re election year is really a campaign speech. And check out the polls, he's more popular than ever. Right, so it really has come together, certainly for the President and the Republicans this week, and not so for the Democrats. Will see what happens going forward, right, New Hampshire next,

then on to Nevada and then South Carolina. So we'll see, as you say, where this goes and how far reaching the implications of this debacle in Iowa are. So don to check out Pursuits. The editor Pursuits is with us Chris Rouser, and the open to pursuits this week has to do with bonuses, and we cover bonuses a lot right here, most read stories on the terminal they are the pursuits has their own unique twist on it. They do. I like it. So where did you go with this?

So you know some of the coverage that we've been doing about bonuses, is that they're flat this year, or that bonuses reflect less individual performance and more company wide performance, so you might not be getting this crazy surprise. Um. So since you know the end of what we used to think of the bonus that might be coming, we thought, okay, you should take your bonus and you should buy it. You should spend it on something that will appreciate. So

you know, your bonus is an appreciation of yourself. You should get something that will appreciate in the world. So spend it well. Spend it well something that will be worth more in the future, either worth more with money, or worth more in your life or in culture or in helping people right exactly. And it's not a boring list. It's really a mixture that you guys have come up with. It's really a fun list. Yeah, so we wanted to

have a lot of different things. You know, you don't have to buy the specific piece of property that we recommend up state, but you know, thinking about buying, Yeah, it does look nice. We have a farm up state, like a working farms you actually maybe like make money off of for three million dollars up in the Hudson Valley Acres that's that's a lot that's maybe too much

land for me, but then have people for that exactly. Um. But you know, you can buy a pair of limited edition Nike Airmax sneakers for a D twenty dollars and those actually rate go up in value. A Chanelle boy bag can go up in value seventy percent. You know, you can buy a piece of art. You can buy a nice knife for your kitchen so you never have to buy a knife again. All these different things are

things that become more valuable over time. Well and talk about some of the investments as it were, and they appreciate the appreciation. I should say that comes from like a museum membership, you know, like those sorts of things

that was intriguing to me. Yeah, so, um, there's a there's different tier memberships that than the Metropolitan Museum of Art here in New York, and sometimes they give you access to early openings so you don't have to wait in line for all those crazy shows, or you know, you have special access to curators who walk around and teach you about the art that you're seeing in the background of it, and then you can use that information to impress people at a cocktail party, you can use

it to invest in art yourself. That that's like useful information that people don't always think about. Well you do, and you kind of take that to another level because take that art appreciation and you can actually buy a piece of art like a Hockney, Right, Yeah, exactly, like Hockney has got has got a super hot market right now, there's a lot of stuff coming up to auction, really stuff that's beautiful to look at and vibrant, interesting, um, and you know he's a person that the market is

just going up and up. Right. You also touch on essentially what's almost the next level of eco tourism in in some ways where you're seeing some beautiful things but then contributing some work and then in some way sort of paying it forward by paying for somebody else to go on something of an excursion. Yeah. So a company that we love is called Elevate Destinations, and when you go on a trip, you can actually help them do research about elephants, uh, and they invest in sort of

improving the relationship between humans and elephants. Can most trips where you interact with elephants are actually not good for the elephant elephants. So like this is something people need to learn about. And then also that company gives money to kids to visit local cultural sites in the region, which is which is just paying it forward in a way where you're not even there. I have to say one of the things that really jumped out for me. I love animals is um the one about helping out

pets in as at Puerto Rico specifically. I love that idea because there's a lot of animals that were hit by the storms they are the hurricanes. For four dollars, you can adopt a pet and as we say, your your heart will grow more than you ever thought possible. Um. All right, Oh wait, you have that one really good one. The LiPo sculpting for guys. Yeah, yeah, invested you can. You can do it on your body, you can do

it on your face, actually around your mouth. This is Dr Ryan nine seen in New York, who is one of our favorites. Plastic surgeon always has like the new hot thing, and this is one of his Renuvian Yeah, that's what it's called. Just just adopted or adopted. Maybe we've already had it done and you just didn't notice. How good. That's the best kind of vacation. Little healing there that wasn't actually adopting a dog in Puerto Rico. Well maybe not a just being a dog, but maybe

adopting a title. We love this story. Tell us about this one's amazing. So Bennetta Kamal in Germany, it's one of our favorite writers. You guys know him. He pitched this story about how in Germany and also in some other countries in Europe, you can actually buy a title. So by your way into the aristocracy. In the way that you do it in Germany is you get somebody like a princess or a countest to adopt you as an adult, you become their child. And okay, can I

just sayd radio they can't see Jason's face. Really, it's just amazing. So, and it's a thing, you know, can cost eighty thousand euro to become a count it can cost up to eight hundred thousand euro or way more to become a prince or a princess. Different titles obviously, Yeah, so like and there's you know, there's there's a lot of aristocracy in Germany, which is why this is a little bit more common there, and people who do it report that it actually makes a difference in the way

they go through life. So the Van whatever Habsburg family that also finds out that a crazy aunt like adopted somebody and gave them a title. They have no say in any of this. Yeah, So people try to protest it because they don't they don't like to dilute sort of the value of their name. But there's not really if you're legally adopting somebody, there's nothing that you can

actually do about it. So they you know, there's Jansa go Boer's husband, Prince Frederick bought his title because he got a princess to adopt him, and then he's passed it on to a bunch of people. A brothel owner, you know, all these someone who wants a bunch of gym's. Yeah, Like, I know, I love the I love the detail about like the guy who owns Killer Sports and parades around I'm reading for Benny's story here parades around in tasseled

military uniform. Yeah, it's incredible. You know, most people don't know. And if you're in Germany, if you have a van on your name, people treat you differently. Right, you go to restaurants and it helps you go bank loan. We hear so like it really actually does change these people. We hear that James Charmy, who writes for Pursuits, also

has a title. But that's all right. So if you're not wearing military tassels, maybe you're wearing a brooch, emphasis on bro bro We're trying to make it a thing. Which fun did you guys have in the news room with this one? This was great and you know, we did a lot. You know this, we did the story because we've seen this a lot. So man, especially on the Red Carpet in Hollywood, are wearing jewelry on or lapel's lapel pin. Jason Momoa had this great Art Deco

piece when he was at the Golden Globes recently. Um and you know Stilas when he was actually wearing his jacket and wasn't sleeveless. That's amazing. They can kind of wear anything. And so but we've seen it out and here in New York too. I was at a party at Sacks last night and I saw a bunch of men wearing a pretty like blingy jewelry on their lapels.

And it's it's just another way for you know, jewelry companies to sell and they've really been struggling or trying to find ways to open this market up to men. Tiffany just launched a men's jewelry collection and it was trying to be sort of really masculine, was like jeweled dog tags and things. But some companies are just saying, no, we just want like some fancy jewelry and we just want to I mean, because the fact matter is is and we've talked about this visa these the watches before.

I mean, it is difficult, sorry, smallest violin for men to accessorize in a lot of ways. It's the best you can do is like wear some bunky socks. You know, there's just not a lot you can do. I know it's horrible, but you could also get a really cool watch. You cover that as well. Talk to us about these perpetual calendar watches. I love perpetual calendar watches. I do love all watches. I absolutely cannot afford a perpetual calendar watches.

But these are watches that, um, they give you the day, the month, sometimes the week of the year, the year, and they don't screw up on leap here so like they ever well in that were as humanity we're gonna screw up the Gregorian calendar a little bit to get climate, but until then, these watches are totally accurate. Most of them are self winding, so you wear it around, it winds itself and it's just perfectly time for such a long time. And because it's so complicated to do that,

they're very expensive. The cheapest one that we have is an IWC, which is twenty eight dollars, and then we have ones that go up to eight hundred thousand. Al Right, my phone, my phone, I mean a thousand dollars. Your phone is never wrongs, well kind of, I guess I have to ask you about I would dub the anti Castanza. I'm very big into this wallet. I have to say I thought a lot about this because I my wallet got a little two castanza is way too fat, and

I just sort of paired it back. It is hard to find like the right one though, the right sort of thin wall with my husban's paired down to like something very tiny for just his cards and just RelA. Often you have to when you wear a small wallet, like a bill fold style wall. Often you have to have a money clip too, because you can't fit a lot of bills in there, so you put your money in your front pocket. But if you wear this slim kind of bill fold style wallet, doesn't screw up your back.

Like people don't realize that they're getting sciatica or whatever that is because they're sitting on their wallet. And um, so we have this beautiful, very very soft, like unbelievably soft one from the way they two undred and sixty five dollars. It's based on their puzzle bag which women carry and I just fell in love yeah, or other people doing it, like I feel like the brands like Coach and so stuff with him. I have a mont

Blanc one that I really love. Um well, Shinola does a really nice one too, because in their sort of leather collections, right yeah, and there you know, they can be kind of boring. The one of the thing I like about the Law one is it's not of colors. It's kind of interesting. So people, I got my husband one that has a hedgehog painted on it, like people, just um, that's Chris Rouse or the editor of the

pursuit section. I had so much fun with this. First of all, of course, the opener talking about how to be smarter basically with your bonus dollars because they're not as big as they were before. But come on, let's get right to it. Don't you want to buy a title? Don't you want to be Prince Kelly? Don't you think that people would pay even more attention to our show if it was Lady von Masser and Baron von Kelly? Oh my god, totally it would. It would take us

to a whole new level. I think we need to look into that working on that, haven't you. I just came to my mind. It's just clever. Um, it's a fun thing. I can expense them. It would be really good for business. Jason about this eighty dollars to become a prince? And also you got adopted or Barren? Can you imagine explaining that one to Debbie Kelly? That is so nuts. Anyway, it's a fun read. You must check

it out. It's something to talk about over the weekend with your friends and then for you guys out there by broach broach, emphasis on the brow. First, we want to start with, of course, the coronavirus still the biggest global story. It is the cover of Business Week magazine this week. Nobelle Laurid, Paul Krugman stop by our daily show this week to talk about the virus, specifically his

thoughts on what's going on in China and beyond those borders. So, Paul, from an economic perspective, from a market perspective, the market still seems to be trying to figure out. But you mentioned this new world that we're living in, this value supplied, value based supply chain. I think is what is what

you said, help us understand the economic implications here? Okay, so you know I was I got a column because Wilbert Ross said something truly bone headed, which is not that unusual, but it was a good jumping off point where he said, this is great for America, help us compete with the Chinese. Uh. And that wouldn't have been totally bone headed forty years ago, when you actually did have a world where kind of national manufacturing bases competed

head to head with each other. But now we're in this world of these complicated interlinked value chains where um, you know they I've got an iPhone in my pocket here where was that iPhone made? Well? There the last step was China, But in fact that that's the last step of a very long and winding chain. And there are pieces of it that were made in many places, and it's been shipped across multiple borders. Um and in that kind of world, anything that disrupts manufacturing anywhere is

actually going to hurt manufacturing everywhere. And so the coronavirus, and that's actually by the rate, most most of the evidence says that actually all of the people who have actually done evidence said that the Trump trade war has actually hurt US manufacturing, not helped it. And the reason is because of the value chains. What it did was it disrupted that raised the cost of US manufacturers by raising the cost of imported inputs. And the coronavirus is

kind of like the Trump trade war on on steroid. Uh. If it turns out to be as serious as we fear it might be, it's going to be a really pretty nasty thing, even for people who are not at all at risk of being infected themselves. I feel like, going back to your book, that we're at risk two of kind of creating a better future if we have folks putting out these ideas that have been you know, disproven if you will, and that they don't make sense.

And we certainly see that among politicians. I do wonder do you have faith and maybe the private sector to kind of move things along. Elon Musk, for instance, like him or not, he has certainly pushed forward the idea of an e v UM that many traditional auto automakers Paul would have said, it's gonna take much longer to do, and I feel like he's moved up that. So do you have any faith in kind of the private sector

moving along some of these ideas well? Sometimes I mean the look one of the I do say in arguing with zombies, that that the the overwhelming problem, the one I have Sometimes I asked, why isn't it? The only thing I write about is is climate change um? And the private sector has actually set us up to solve problem.

We've had this incredible technological revolution, and renewable energy and electric vehicles is part of that because it means that we can electrify a lot of transport as well, and we can generate the electricity in ways that don't regenerate greenhouse gases, and that that technology is already now. Government policy helped. Without some of the investments that took place, particularly under the much maligned Obama Stimulus, we green energy

wouldn't be where it is right now. But the private sector also did its part and delivered this great technological stuff. The trouble is, first that's sometimes not enough, and sometimes the politicians are fighting it. So we have the Trump administration trying to force us to burn coal even though the private sector really doesn't want the coal anymore. What's the best economic lens to look at the Iowa caucus and the early Democratic vying for the nomination? Boy, I mean,

I have by way to zero idea what's going to happen? Uh? And the but the caucus is it's a you know, it's a deeply unrepresentative state and a deeply peculiar If somebody want to said that caucus is an artisanal primary, right, it's a it's it's a really bad way to judge what voters actually want, and with a highly unrepresentative set of voters. So this is a this is really bad, God knows. I mean, it's but let me tell you it might be decisive for the nomination, particularly Biden wins

that he may that may be a kind of it. Uh, But if he doesn't, then probably slog on for quite a while. But my insight is that in terms of actual policy it hardly matters which Democrat wins that it as long as a Democrat wins the general election. Um that Bernie Sanders has a lot of big plans, but in reality he would only be able to do part

of them. And Biden, you know, maybe kind of old guard, but he's actually offering a pretty progressive economic program and his party would force him to go through with that. So the reality is that we're going to get a Democrat who in practice would be a what Europeans would call a social Democrat, would expand the safety net, raised taxes on the rich. And I'm not going to get worked up at all about about who ends up, you know,

in the lead. Well, and one of the zombie ideas that you talk about in your book is the myth of the socially liberal fiscally conservative vote or so there's a lot of things that are very relevant. Well, yeah, there are I know some socially liberal fiscally conservative I had to actually tend to encounter. Well, I basically encountered them in in the breakfast meetings at Bloomberg. Uh. And they have an average net worth of maybe a thousand times mine at least. Uh. And they all wear gray suits,

and they are absolutely not there. There's nobody out there. They are effectively represent maybe three percent of the electorate. We just want to spend a couple more minutes with Paul Krugman, because we've got him here obviously teaching now at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York. And when you came in, Paul, you and Carol were talking about an interview she did with you down in Princeton. You're now a full on resident of Manhattan. What do

you make of New York City right now? Oh, you know, if if you can afford a place to live, which is the hard part. Uh, it's a golden age of New York City. I mean, crime is low, the cultural richness, whatever your tastes are, is enormous. The food is better by far than it was when I was growing up. You know, it's it's a um and and life is surprisingly easy, uh, you know, and anything you want is five minutes away. So uh, no, it's it's I'm a huge fan of New York I even love I'm a

fan of the subway. For all of its problems, it's a it's a very efficient means of transport. So no, I'm a Uh, you're a bull. I'm a bull. And you know I grew up in this on Long Island. I always thought that would someday grow up to be in a New York intellectual and finally in my sixties, I made it. You made it. But you made it, which is great. Well, and I do wonder about, um, you know, bringing more people and making it more equal with in the city. Do you think that's something that

we can fix, whether it's developers responsibility or whoever. No, we definitely need housing. Affordable housing is probably the biggest single thing that you can do. I mean, there are other things. Universal pre K is great, but we should have even more child support and that's something that the city can do. But building more housing for regular people, um, it's you know, it's a dense city, but there was

there's in fact still plenty of room for that. And that's that's the biggest you know, it's always gonna be highly unequal city because it's a place where billionaires want to live, right, so there's always gonna be some of

those ten seconds. Got a favorite part of the neighborhood? Well, I mean I because I live on the Upper West Side and it's it's you know, it's it's a wonderful place, and that's Nobel Laureate Paul Krugman excited to catch up with him, especially because this new book arguing with the Zombies, economics, politics, and the fight for a better Future, couldn't be more timely. So we were down in Miami last week. We were there just a few days ahead of the Super Bowl.

We brought cast from Radio Row they call it, and with all sorts of folks, but we also helped host an event was called the Bloomberg Power Players Summit. That's right, Jason, and we had a chance to have a conversation with Kim Pagoula. She's the owner and president of the Buffalo Bills also the Buffalo Sabers, so they have she and her husband a lot of exposure to the sports industry and it was fun to talk to her about a

lot of things. We did talk a little bit about being a woman and what is predominantly a field and industry dominating by men, but also about becoming really connected with your community where the team is based, right, the future of football fan engagement, and her priorities for the next decade. One of the questions I want to ask you and forgive me. But what's it like being a very successful woman in a sport that is so dominated by men. It's it's awesome. I'm sorry, isn't really all awesome.

I'm not trying to make anyone jealous, but um, I have the best job in the world, as you know what I this is. You know, there's a lot the challenges, of course, but I can tell you just I'm having so much fun. I've ever any moment though where they're like, oh, Kim,

what does your husband think about this? Oh? Um no, you know what my my um my husband and I we're we've been married for about twenty seven years and he has been a great partner of mine and I remember when he when we talked about the bid coming off to buy the bills. He's like him, like, like, you gotta get on board because I can't do this and you know without without you and I and certainly that. Um. So he's always been my biggest supporter and it's been

very grateful. But then at the same time he's like, all right, you go do it. So he'said it's great to have the support, but then you realize you're the one doing all the work, not always but sometimes times. But it's great being an owner. I'm so blessed. I love it every day. So what's the big challenge for you right now? In in obviously a lot of focus this weekend because it is the Super Bowl. It's a good time to sort of take off of where you are as an owner. What's number one on your list?

You know, really we would not be here without our players, and they get in our fans, and so every year, regardless of our our wins our losses, every year is a new challenge because you I mean, the forty niners were you know, they were almost one of the worst teams last year and this year they're in the big game, and so every year is different and you can't always like count on what you did right or what you

did wrong. Um, but the just the fan base, UM, trying to re engage with them, all the new technology that comes through, you got new players, the struggles that any business have when you don't know what it is. So I think that's really is just how do we keep engaging our fans, how do we keep building on what we have? How do you do that? Because we you know, we've had some conversations and planning for this. Jason I talked about it with our own families, that

there is so much UM. I think George Pine used this expression like competing for some mind space. You know, you want the fans at the games, but you all to want to keep them engaged when they're a way. So how do you compete with so much that's out there? Well? Yeah, and and we found that, you know, we used to think that you could kind of compete with another club. You're a you're competing against another league, you know, basketball, hockey,

whatever it is, UM. But we found that we're really competing for people's time and the convenience because they're able to do, you know, go on their phone and get a ride to wherever they want to go. They can

have groceries delivered right to right to your door. And so people are now expecting out of their experience all the ease and convenience that they're getting from all these other industries that you know, before we didn't think we're our competitors, UM, but certainly now now they are because they want that same level of expectations for our fans. Do Kim, how do you create a club and create sort of an ethos around the club that's reflective of

the city. I mean, Buffalo is an American city in so many ways for good and bad, especially now in so what is it about the team that reflects this sitting well, you know what I really do, there's um, you know, sometimes I feel like we can't as a club in the league. Sometimes they have a lot of rules, right, and of course, you know, we gotta play within those rules. But I think that authenticity that you know, we we talk about a lot, I think that you have to

really embrace that. So in Buffalo we have this is called Bill's Mafia. Was not started by the club. In fact, we kind of really shied away for because we're like, oh, that's kind of like a negative and tones we're not, you know, not that kind of family. But that's what the fans like felt like they just embraced it as their own. And now we're like, no, let's partner with that.

Let's embrace me that because that's who we are. So really understanding our core fan who we are and then allowing them organically naturally to help us really be who we are as a team and any of our players you'll see there'll be like a shout out to Bill's mafia, like they get it too, they feel it all right. For our Bloomberg Business Week listeners tuning in around the country,

we're here in Miami talking to Kim list. She is the president CEO of the GOOLA Sports and Entertainment owner and president of the Buffalo Bills and the Buffalo Savers.

We should point up. So one thing I want to ask you is you are thinking about and it's some of the conversations you've been having here up on stage, is that you want to think about your existing maybe older fan base, right who want to interact with the game and the team a certain way, and then you got your younger consumer who you also want to engage because you want to have them around for decades to come.

How do you balance that as a team owner? You know, you've got to think about resources and so on and

so forth. I think that is is so hard. I mean, that is one of you asked me earlier about one of the struggles, and I think that, truly is It's the best thing about sports, Like our fan base is anyone from like you know, a new baby that's got there, like my first game shirt, and then I've got you know, people that like a hundred years celebrating their hundredth birthday out of football game, and so how do you cover that whole? I mean it's the best thing, Like do

you have that fan base, Um, that's fans, so many generations. Um. But if it presents a lot of alenges. Well, speaking of challenges, we just had four you know, incredibly successful athletes who have moved on in some ways, you know, co founding businesses, co founding a league, some still playing. We talked a lot about the role of social media, players using social media, managing their own brands. How do you, as a team owner kind of get your hands around that.

What's your view on that? No, I I am very big proponent of our players having a voice in a brand because I do think, like said, they are representing your team, and the players aren't coming to see me, They're coming to see our players, and I think there's such power that they have with the influence and and if we can help them. So we have a program.

The league has done a much better job than recent years of allowing for that, and so we have a program where we actually well because you know, the players on game day, like they're supposed to be focusing on the game, but they've got fansday got family, they want to have fun, and so we like provide extra videographers, extra camera crew, extra people that we'll take pictures and we'll send it to them and say, hey, we're not using this, why don't you can share it with your

fans or where you can share it with your family. You can do whatever you want with them. Because it's social media's time consuming. Oh my goodness, I have a Twitter account and I got an Instagram and it's like, it's it's a lot. And now we're on TikTok, right, So like you gotta do the Facebook for your older generation. Now, then you gotta do TikTok, which are completely and everything

in between. It's a lot. That's Buffalo Bill's owner and president Kim Pagoula talking to us from the Bloomberg Power Players Summit. Interesting to hear, as you said, Jason, you know, it's a new type of owner. This is someone she said, took over the franchise after the previous owner was there for a long time, so for the whole history of the team exactly. So it took several years to kind of make your own imprint, and that's kind of where they are right now. So we were down in Miami

last week. I just like saying that ahead of the Super Bowl. We were there for the Bloomberg Power Players Summit exactly, and Jason I had a panel focusing on tackling sustainability through sports. And when you talk about sustainability, you're talking about a lot of things, yes, going green, being green, but you're also talking about diversity and inclusion. So we covered a lot of things, and I have to say this was such an interesting sort of pairing

of people in some ways. Joining you was Alguido, the president of the San Francisco forty Niners, Dallas Maverick CEO Cynthia Marshall, and Kirk Tanner, he's the CEO of PEPSI North America. Let's start with you, all right, San Francisco. You have this amazing stadium. I mean you even have a dashboard I believe when you go there where fans can check out how green you are. Tell us about

this stadium. Why you guys did it look? I think for us being in the Bay Area, it's sort of it was a staple that we wanted to be green we wanted to be sustainable. It came down it was an edict from our ownership group, Jed York. We wanted to be the first stadium that was ever built lead gold. There have been a number of stadiums that have opened and then became lead gold, but it was important for us to do so, and a lot of things went into it. Some of it is the location in the

stadium and where where we picked it. Obviously, all of us in the sports business have this challenge of having seventy thousand people come down to a stadium, So how do you actually do that? How do you reduce the carbon footprint the number of cars. Well, build a stadium next to two forms of public transit, get fifteen to eight percent of your people using those publican forms of transit on game day. It's very fair. It was great

for us. The second we really wanted to be. You know, it was ambitious, but we wanted our game days to be powered by the sun. So we partner with NRG and sun Power. We have over eighteen hundred fold of voltaic panels in our building. We use that stored energy and we literally power Sunday via the sun and then there's a number of other things in the recycled water. On top of our stadium, we actually have a twenty seven thousand square foot green roof where we actually use

those products. Um inside of our concession stands from our cooking perspective, but at the very highest levels, I would say it starts with ownership. It starts with leadership. It was important for our organization to really put a flag in the ground and make this an important thing for us, and I think a lot of the other stadiums that

that came on board after us followed synthing. I wanted to come into it because speaking of sustainability, you were brought into a situation at the Dallas Mavericks that wasn't sustainable. So talk to us. First of all, I think everybody's probably heard the story. Mark Cuban, I think calls you, right and you're like, who is this? I didn't know him, You didn't know who he was, all right, not me either,

So it's okay. But you're a smart lady and you get up to speed and you find out and you go to meet with him, but you don't think you're going to take the job to work with the Dallas Mavericks. Tell us a little bit about what was going through your head and what you knew of the problem. Right. Well, first of all, I had just retired from a T n T. Your retirement, right, So I just retired start a consulting company and it was a consulting company focused

on leadership development, diversity and inclusion, culture transformation. And so then I get this call and I want to talk to him, and on my way over to his office, I read the Sports Illustrated story and that's when I thought, I don't know if I want to do this. I don't I don't know if I'm gonna want to be a part of this. But obviously the person who I talked to was so focused on a culture transformation. And Mark says, I need you to come in. We have some issues here. I need you to come in and

help us. And as I was leaving his office, two women stopped me to tell me their stories. I came back the next day and said, I gotta do this. I just have to do this, because what I have learned is it takes leadership, and you talked about that and the tone has to be said at the top. So here's an opportunity to come in be a part of something truly that would be sustainable to create a

culture and a climate of diversity and inclusion. Not just diversity because there's a difference, but true inclusion, since of belonging, are really having people wanting to be a part of it, really appreciating people. And so I got a chance to do it, I said yes. And it's been twenty three months and the NBA just gave us the Inclusion Leadership Award for the progress. The work is not done, but

we've made a lot of progress. That's congratulations. And I have to say I've been quoting you because you say there's diversity and inclusion. Diversity being asked to the party, being invited to the party. Inclusion is being asked to dance. So you can invite me to the party and have me as the only black at the table, the only woman at the table, and your numbers look good and I look good, and we think we've done something great.

But then I don't feel included because you haven't taught me the rules, you haven't taught me the dance steps. Everybody's doing something, all the fellows are doing it, but I don't know what you're doing. And so inclusion is about teaching me those moves and making sure that I can be successful at that table and let's go. I would love that. That's how Guido the president of the San Francisco forty nine ers, Dallas Maverick CEO Cynthia Marshall, and kirktown are the CEO of PEPSI North America. I

love this conversation. It was about sustainability, diversity, inclusion. But what was really unique, Jason is they all came at it from a little bit of a different perspective and so together you've got a really rich conversation. So we were in Miami last week. It was really nice and warm,

love being there. It was just ahead of the big game, the Super Bowl for the Bloomberg Power Players, so it was this incredible networking and gathering of athletes, of team owners, so many different folks involved in the sports world, and one of those people care. I was really excited about this conversation ahead of time, and man did he deliver.

John Skipper we talked about streaming. Of course, he knows the media world, the sports media world, as well as anyone who's the president of ESPN now with a fast growing startup called The Zone. Well, in my career. I mean, it was an extraordinary inflection point when you went from a pulsity of sports on broadcast, right they did, the broadcast networks did less than a thousand hours a year of television. Uh. In my last year as president of ESPN, we did ninety thousand hours. Um. So that was a

an inflection point of availability of content to fans. And that was cable really that created that, right, And it was of course also a transition from an over the air broadcast signal to a more stable connection, whether it be satellite or co acle cable. But this inflection point, which is moving from pay television two over the top streaming is going to be just as profound. I mean, look, it's already happened in music, and look how profound that is.

Instead of going to your tywer records and bringing home a sack full of vinyl, you pay a very small amount of money and have all the music, or I just made the number up of all the music in the world available to you on your smartphone. That's a spectacular consumer experience. Change the business model you now have. We're right in the middle of the movement of general entertainment two over the top streaming, and all you read about every day is the introduction of Disney Plus. Here

comes the new Peacock. What what is the next series of content on Apple TV? What's HBO Max gonna look like? What is Amazon gonna do? What is Facebook gonna do? Uh? It's a remarkable change over time. It's a better value to the consumer. It unbundles the bundle, which doesn't mean you won't have a reaggregation of over the top content. You will. And it also provides advantages in more volume.

You're gonna ago now from one thousand hours to nine eight thousand hours to two million hours, and pretty much everything is going to be available. You're gonna be able to pick and choose more. And then you have the advantage of interactivity two A communication which will allow people to have personalized experiences betting, fantasy, gamification, chat rooms and and uh conversations happening during the broadcast. So it's a profound change and a better consumer experience. The question is

what happens to the business model? Right? Okay, so let's talk, I mean, let's get into it. Because everything you said sounds awesome, sounds amazing, especially from a consumer perspective. And yet you know the joke that people will sit down to try and watch a movie on a Friday night and they'll spend an hour just on Netflix, and by the time they decide what they're gonna watch, it's time to go to bed. You know what I mean that that's sort of paralysis. I'm more efficient to that. Well,

you're a more efficient guy in general. But you know, and that's just with a couple of platforms. Some of the things that you've talked about haven't even fully rolled out yet. How is a consumer to make sense of

what they're gonna put their dollars to? Um. I don't actually know that this is literally what happens, but I think it's instructive to think about a family sitting around the dinner table and deciding what they're going to buy, and the winners are gonna be those people who are the first choice, or the second choice, or the third choice, because not many people are going to subscribe to more than five or six services, which by the way, may

still include a light aggregated pay TV bundle, but they're gonna add Netflix. I mean, Netflix is fairly ubiquitous now within a certain socioeconomic group of people. In the United States. Even if you go to a place, um, if you're gonna Brazil, you know the plurality of homes at a certain socio economic level. And above all have Netflix. They have it in Canada. They you know they're gonna have

it in India and everywhere else. So the fight now is between HBO, Max and Peacock and Disney and Apple and Amazon Prime for where are they in the lineup of which services people are gonna choose. We are sports only, so we have to work our way into that consideration set. We have a very simple way to do that. That does not mean that it is trivial to execute, but we know from our experience in Germany, Japan, Italy that if you have first tier sports content, you're going to

make the cut. In Italy we have Syria, which means if you're a Javentus fan, three out of every ten Juventus games are owned his own. It's the only way to watch them. We have a very large number of subscribers in Italy. Uh same thing in Japan where we have the j League football, flip soccer, and we have the Japanese Baseball so we have a large business in Japan. We have had. We have bund some Bundesliga games in Germany. We've got to high business. It's easy to do, it

is not inexpensive. The technology is complex. The reason music happened is audio is easier to stream than video. The reason entertainment happens before sports is because our archived entertainment that sits at the head end of in the cloud is easier. And the hardest thing to do is we're gonna have a live game, and we're going to produce that and deliver it to you at the same time

as everybody else. Last year we did one hundred more than one games events in which we had an audience of over a million people watching the same thing at one time. I do not think anybody else in the world has had that experience. Uh. And that is the complexity of That is why this will happen over a certain period of time. It's funny. I was just talking to somebody who said, when's the super Bowl gonna be on?

Over the top? The super Bowl might be very quickly over the top as a choice, exclusively over the top. That you couldn't do it right now. You just couldn't. It wouldn't be stable. It wouldn't be a good experience. But if five million people wanted to do it because they weren't in front of that, you know, they weren't at home, or they didn't have a pay TV subscription. Uh, that could certainly be a compliment. Which what urge the

NFL to think about in their next round of deals. Well, let's talk about that very point, because for a long time, media rights when it comes to sports have been to keep me honest here exclusive, right, I mean, and you don't have so much of these sort of complimentary situations. Is that changing? Is it changing fast? Well, it's interesting depends on where you're talking about. UM. At ESPN, our point of view was it is not acceptable to bifur

kate the linear stream and the over the top. Of course, the NFL did that on Thursday night when they sold a linear stream to Fox and they sold over the top stream to Amazon. So I think you will see some uh positioning and struggle and and I think some leagues will try to bifurcate the two. Now, I'll tell you something ironic that while I just said that our point of view and at the zone is that we want exclusive content, we may in certain cases be willing

to be non exclusive. I take the Super Bowl night exclusively. But when we bought the serial rights in Italy or the Japanese baseball rights, we bought them exclusively. They are not for It's okay if you want to get your pay TV subscription. We want to move people over. We want a transformation. We don't want to be a complementary service. And for those of you listening on Bloomberg Radio Bloomberg Business Week, I'm speaking with John Skipper of just Zone,

formerly of ESPN. So as you think about sort of sport by sport, you guys have a really nice footprint in boxing obviously here in the United States. You talked about some of your soccer slash football rights overseas. What's the next big growth area for you that takes the Zone to the next level. Look, it is you want to what you need to do to build a subscription service. And we're in nine countries of four continents. Were in Brazil or in Spain, where in Italy were the United States?

Were in Canada? Where in Austria, Switzerland and Germany. You've got to start with something that matters right here. We started with Slovaz Canella. He matters, so you can move people over. You gotta start um. In Canada, we have a Sunday ticket. Uh. You gotta start with something that matters. You gotta build around it so that people, well, you can retain their subscription. You can make sure that they're

all the year and that they watch more. If we can get people to watch five events in a month, it's almost certain that they'll stay with us the next month. And that's John Skipper, executive chairman of his own former president of ESPN. He sort of can't make this guy up in many ways. I love his accent. I just love his whole approach. You know, he rocks up onto the stage, you know, not wearing socks and his shoes. He was full on Miami. He was full on Miami. Alright.

That wraps up the weekend edition to Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. I thinks so much for joining us. I'm Carol Masser and I'm Jason Kelly. Be sure to tune into Bloomberg Business Week Radio live Monday through Friday, starting at two pm Wall Time. And if you can't catch us live, check out our daily podcast wherever you download your podcast, and you can also watch the show

live on YouTube. Just search for Bloomberg Global News, and of course you can get this week's edition of the magazine. It is on newsstands now, and we'll be back right here next week at the same time. This is Bloomberg