Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - February 4th, 2022

edition of Bloomberg Business Week. Big tech earnings dominating the headlines this past week, as did the latest government jobs report, and we'll get a macro look at the state of the American worker with the chief operating officer of LinkedIn, Dan Shapiro. Also ahead, we'll hear about the small group of billionaires who are devouring the world while touting a more socially conscious form of capitalism. We get that from

journalist Peter S. Goodman. He's global economics correspondent at The New York Times, also the author of the new book Davos. Man casts a harsh light on some of the most powerful people in the corporate world. Also speaking of journalists, an assault on Hong Kong's independent press, the fall of

Apple Daily is the subject of our cover story. All of that to come first, It's welcome the editor of Bloomberg Business Week magazine, Joel Webber and Joel We're gonna go in depth on the cover story a bit later on, but first of all, tell us why Apple Daily was the big story for you this week had to be the cover. Well, it was a big event last year

in Hong Kong, Um and Beijing. Basically, how to how to takedown effectively of this pro democy democracy newspaper that is for years really been UM, a newspaper that was like the part of the fabric of Hong Kong, Um and Beijing. Basically went after the money, turned off the faucet and successfully basically silenced the newspaper that has had significant implications for Hong Kong. Already, the pro democracy movement had been a target once it lost UM, the newspaper

Um Apple Daily, UM and Jimmy Lay. Obviously the tycoon Um behind the newspaper had already been jailed. It was It's become sort of this downward spiral for one of the world's financial capitals, So significant implications. Obviously, this all happened already UM. But the number of voices that Ian Marlowe the writer was able to bring into the story just made it feel like one of these definitive stories that we had to do it, and doing it basically here on the on the brink of the Winter Olympics.

I thought it was another way of kind of talking about um China in a big way. We're gonna have much more a little later in the program when Ian Marlow joins us Joel. Meanwhile, it's been a big week for tech earnings. Facebook just getting crushed after reporting. We also heard from Google parent Alphabet making out quite well once again, and yet in this week's Tech section, Nico Grant writes that the company has struggled to gain market

share and one area of growing importance. We are, of course talking cloud computing services uh really controlled by Amazon and Microsoft at this point. So what's Alphabet doing about it? So I think the meta scene here had earnings in this uh it's future earnings could look like. I think there's this and we're gonna be talking about this a lot this year. Is growth versus value and and big

tech obviously has always been in that growth game. And there's a big question that I think Wall Street is opening up to, which is, you know, what are these big tech stocks? Are all of them still growth um and value. I think everyone's beginning to realize it could be having a moment here, but yet there's still companies like the alphabets that are still potentially in a growth mode.

And one of those things that I think Google Google's cloud operation is attempting to do here is actually recognized that they are a distant UH force actually in cloud computing AWS, Amazon is number one, followed by Microsoft, Ali Baba is actually bigger than Google, and part of that is just because of the way that Google has for

years actually UH organized its infrastructure. It was always the servers were always intended to support Google's products, so things like Gmail, Google Photos, YouTube that it was the whole system was optimized to be first and form of servicing those products and not clients necessarily. So Google is actually quietly spent um the past two years to try and overhaul its infrastructure in an attempt to actually become more

reliable for its clients. And as you'll probably recall, there were some lot of reliability questions US in December, and Google hopes that it can make up some of that ground. And now keep in mind, it has a lot of ground to make up. So the I think that it will be something that the street continues to watch. But Google or alphabet UM clearly was a company that the streets like UM compared to Meta. Yeah, and that's what's fascinating because it talks about them putting out their strategies,

as you said, Joel, becoming the most reliable cloud. It's hard to do that when you have problems, right, but everybody has problems, even the leaders. There are problems in the system. It's just kind of the nature of the business to some extent, that's right. And but you know, the question is can you attempt to control some of those variables UM, and they're you know, even Google has

had problems with that in the past. UM. So it's the question though, is like this reliability message is not enough to make someone leave Aws or Microsoft in favor of of Google. And we'll have to watch UM. But you know, going from the seven or so percent of market shore they currently have, they have essentially a lot of upsets now when it comes to big tech, Joel. One person we watched closely is of course Cathy would

have our investment management. She's been the subject of a Business Week cover story, one of the Bloomberg fifty because of her uber out performance in We should note more recently, though, a major struggle for her flagship our Innovation et F over the last year. So one was not a good year. It's not off to a good start in two. In the any in section this week, we learned that her

investors they're actually holding firm for the most part. In this piece, Uh, it really talks about how there's never been somebody who's has the performance or under performance that Kathy would had in but investors have really stuck with her. Yeah, so there, this is a real curiosity. M Obviously she had an amazing m as the pandemic took hold those growth stocks that it is a hyper concentrated portfolio in in her flagship A r k K that et f UM.

What happened since then is, you know what, what we're just talking about, those major growth stocks have begun to under port reform. That's Bloomberg Business Week editor Joe Webber with an overview of our issue well. Coming up next, the CEO of Lincoln tells us why many of us will never look at work the same way again and why that could spell bad news for employers in one particular area. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. This is Bloomberg.

This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Spinovik from Bloomberg Radio. I love this first line of a recent essay that was written by our next guest, and here's what he said. Is the year relationship with work change forever. Those words from our

next guest. We're talking about Dan Shapiro. He's the chief operating officer over at LinkedIn, the world's largest professional networking platform, is seeing millions of users changing jobs and also an increasing number looking for new career paths entirely, and Lincoln expects that to continue. It's part of the trend that Dan calls the Great reshuffle. Right now, more people are reconsidering what they want to do in their jobs than what they want to do with their careers at any

time in recent memory. We run a survey at LinkedIn that suggested that of professionals in America in are going to rethink what they want to do. And what's interesting is that that is happening at a time when there's hasn't been a tighter labor market for professionals in recent memory. The economy is growing again. There's a massive imbalance in

supply and demand for digital skills. And what that means is that as we come out of this pandemic period, as the world becomes more endemic and companies reconsider their policies for how they're going to work in this new world, that employees have a much stronger voice than they used to in this resetting the expectation. So it's gonna be a really interesting year. So I do wonder too, though, Damn Like, I feel like the pendulum can swing big

time and workers do. It does feel like they are in the driver's seat right now, as so many employees pick your employee. They're all scrambling for workers, so employees in many ways can set their terms. Does that stick when the labor market corrects itself and a more normal labor market is back with us to do workers continue to have that leverage and that power. Only time will tell, But I think there's reason to believe that digital skills in particular are going to remain very tight for the

foreseeable future. If you look at what's happened over the last few years, we were already on this journey around companies going through this idea of digital transformation, really digitizing

their businesses, and the pandemic only accelerated that. If you think about the expectations consumers have now about what they expect when they interact with a restaurant or a retailer, it is a much more digital experience, and that's placing more and more burdens operationally on the companies that need digital talent to make those things real. So that is likely to continue for quite some time, and that will likely drive some of the policies and practices that many

companies adopt. So I think that there's some real staying power here. What about for elements of this that that don't stay do we? You know, we're already seeing companies call their workers back to work right now. But we're seeing some shifts. You know, Carol and I talked about Apollo for for for private equity employees offering that one month of remote work. That's something that Carol, I mean, you've covered this stuff forever. That's that was unthinkable a

few years ago, right, Yeah, exactly. It's really fascinating to see, like even the financial firms have been pushing back saying, okay, you can work from home, So Dan, where where are the things that go back to what they were where they were before? What are the changes that don't stick? I wish I had a crystal ball. I think that the thing that is most resonant with employees right now is this concept of flexibility. UH. People are happier, They

report being happier when their jobs are more flexible. You see that looking at remote jobs, UH is something that if you look at all the jobs on LinkedIn and how many people were viewing different kinds of jobs. Just a few years ago, less than ten percent of the jobs were remote eligible that people looked at. That number is now all the job viewing is people curious about remote roles. And so I think that the idea of

flexibility is something that has staying power. Exactly where the lines are drawn about what kind of flexibility works such that businesses can need their needs and the teams can be functioning. I think that's going to be some where everyone's watching everyone in time will tell you know. I recently UM caught up at the CEO of Cisco and Chuck Robbins and even he conceded and a company like Cisco, they have been doing hybrid work, you know for years

pre pandemic. That's just the way many of the tech industry have been working. But even he acknowledged um being a little surprised at how innovative everybody really could be during the pandemic. Technology has made that much more possible. Like I think about, you know, as much as we make fun of all the zoom calls and things, you really can almost feel like you're with people. Yeah, I think we're going to see a tremendous amount of technological

innovation in this space. Every leader has likely gone through a journey of being skeptical about how teams would operate when they were from home or in a hybrid capacity, and things have worked in a lot of ways better than expected. And that is coming at a time when there's more investment from software companies and trying to make this better for people. So those things come together. I think.

I think there's a lot of optimism. Least I hold that these working styles will be effective, But exactly where we land, I think it's going to be something we'll have to see. Do you think, Dan, honestly, anything is lost without being in person with one another, because I do what I can. What I can say is that we have on occasion at LinkedIn had opportunities in a way that was safe and in compliance with health guidelines.

We've had opportunities for some teams to spend time together in person, and it is like a spark of energy. It is a breath of share. People love having those moments. Now, whether that becomes people something people do more periodically as opposed to every day, it's interesting, Um, but I think you will continue to see the power of being together and creating connection as being really fundamental to how great

teams work. Dan eager to talk to you about this story that we highlighted a little earlier in our broadcast about New York City requiring employers to list the minimum and maximum salaries on job postings. That's going to start this bring. According to the Wall Street Journal, it's getting some opposition from business groups. Can you talk a little bit about the way that being transparent with these positions when it comes to salary can empower workers? Absolutely well,

it's a broad trend. Um. The trend towards salary transparency has been happening for years, and I think one of the guiding principles behind it is that there's evidence to suggest that it helps remove bias in the process um. Some people of different backgrounds negotiate differently, and oftentimes the transparency that you can bring to the conversation yields outcomes where there is less bias in terms of pay um.

And so I think that's one of these is driving it, and it's it's something that we think it's a positive. Are you seeing more companies post on linked in those salary ranges for jobs that are being offered, Like, do you have any data that that that shows that the trend is happening on LinkedIn too? I don't have any data myself right now, but I know it's a broad

trend that's going on in the industry. Was the other thing that's going on is obviously we're an increasingly inflationary environment and companies are trying to figure out how that's going to play out in their in their compensation packages, and particularly as it's a tight labor market, workers are asking questions around how does that what does that mean

for my pay? And similarly, companies are grappling with as employees are working in different locations in the same job, how do they reconcile whether they pay different amounts in different cities for similar work. So what we're going to find as we enter in the two is a world where executive teams are gonna have to think through pay policies um as one of the core questions that they asked themselves. That was Dan Shapiro, chief operating officer at LinkedIn.

Still ahead on Bloomberg Business Week. It's been an uphill climb for the cannabis industry. Is regulatory easing has been really slow to him to materialize? Why the head of publicly traded truly is optimistic that better days are ahead. We'll speak with the CEO, Kim Rivers on the other side.

This is Bloomberg Broadcasting from the Financial cap Love the World, Bloomberg He Love the Frio in New York to Washington, d C. Bloomberg to Boston, Bloomberg one oh six one to San Francisco, Bloomberg nine sixty to the country Sirius XM Chado one nine team, and around the globe the Bloomberg Business app and Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This is Bloomberg Business Week. So this past week you might have noticed our Bloomberg team put out a story. It was about how last year was a rough one for the

cannabis industry. It definitely had high hopes initially pinned I hope so initially pinned on the incoming Biden administration to start one right, that was really kind of the mood. But then tim it moved to an atmosphere where we had a lot of gridlock. And then those cannabis companies, certainly the publicly held ones, we saw an extended decline in their stock prices. Progress on the regulatory front it's

essential for the industry's fortunes to shift. That's according to our colleagues at Bloomberg Intelligence, and Kim Rivers thinks that's still on the horizon. Kim you've heard of before on our air. She's the chairman and CEO of Quincy, Florida bas True Leave Cannabis. The public company is more than a hundred and sixties stores nationwide, a market value of about three point nine billion dollars. Truly have acquired Harvest for two point one billion dollars. That was a few

months ago, back in October. That made it the largest cannabis operator in the space. Here's the question, though, what will it take for the pot company to fully realize the benefits of that distinction? What I would say is that there are lots of reasons for continued optimism across the cannabis landscape. UM. Certainly, as we've talked about previously, there was a lot of high hopes for federal change

much earlier with a Democratic control of Congress. However, we do have a continued champion in Congressman prol Letter, and it was recently announced that he was successful and getting

safe banking attached to the compete facts. And so we're not we're not giving up hope yet, UM with respect to safe thanking, which we think makes a ton of sense and has been championed not only by the cannabis industry but also by banking UH folks on the hill as well, UM and and again seems to be continued to garner significant support and would certainly make a lot of sense UM for this Congress to go ahead and pass prior to the terms. That being said, though, as

we've also talked about before, business still remains strong. We actually just truly just closed a second round of debt um seventy five million last week, bringing our most recent race total to four million. It was oversubscribed and at industry leading rates, we're seeing debt rates continue to come

down for the industry. And so you know what we what we see in the stock market is a continued separation between fundamentals and where the market is UM and and we think that that's going to close here over the next little while. And and again fundamentals are strong and UM folks are are continuing to uh to show

strong demand across the US. All right, so can we be as bold or so bold to say in terms of regulatory Um, what you guys have all been waiting for for some kind of co usion on a federal level, are we likely to get it? Can this year? And if we don't get it, and if we don't get it this year, and if we don't get it this year, is it tricky because then we're dealing with a whole other election cycle, are counting down to another big election cycle. Yeah,

you know what's what's interesting about that? And so you know, I can't have a prediction. UM. I do think that incremental change is the more likely path. And I do think that safe thinking this is a very logical and rational first step. Uh. So that's why you hear me, you know, continue to talk about safe banking. I'm very hopeful that we potentially it could be SAE bankings plus meaning spate banking plus some sort of criminal justice UM,

and or other social equity reforms to go along with it. UM. I do think that obviously, if it doesn't happen by the mid terms, we may see a shift, and UM, you know, obviously there's always a reset after that. However, what I can say is that with Congresswoman maces Uh comprehensive reform bill dealing with cannabis, and as you know, she's a Republican out of South Carolina, UM, this is becoming over time less and less partisan. As of course

we've seen or more states come on board. UM. We have a number of Southern states, UM, that are actually implementing medical programs here for the next six to twenty four months, and so it becomes, you know, less and less a partisan issue. I think would become more and more likely that kind of regardless of which party is in control on the hill. UM, it sort of becomes again not only an if, but just to win. Well,

I want to talk more about that. And I think I've shared this story before, Carol, but when I was in graduate school just two thousand and sixteen, a friend of mine wanted to start a cannabis entrepreneurship club and this was business school and he couldn't do it. It was he was facing pushback from the administration. He had to go around and get signatures. And I'm wondering, Kim, how much has changed in just a few short years. If we're thinking that's just five years ago, six years ago. Um,

how is the perception a public perception around cannabis changed. Oh, it's it's changing daily. I was just forward in an article this morning that the NFL has just announced a million dollar donation for research at that was resparked to cannabis for as alternate therapy stree mentum having to do

primarily with concussions um in the NFL. So I mean think back to, you know again that same time period you just mentioned, we're literally players, um, you know, significant players were being banned from the NFL because of failed drug casts involving cannabis. That's Kim Rivers. She's chairman and

CEO of True Leaf Cannabis. Yeah, I guess the expectations certainly shifted in the Biden administration obviously has its hands full and had its hands full, but clear regulatory framework is really important, especially on a federal level, for these companies, because it's really difficult for them to do business. I mean, look at what banks. Banks don't want to touch this stuff exactly, and this has been the main issue, I feel like Tim from the get go, when we started

really focusing on this whole sector. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Coming up next, The Rise of davos Man. It's a thing apparently, how a small group of billionaire executives came to reap untold power and use the pandemic to further perpetuate economic inequality across the globe. At least, so says our next guest. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick takes Tim Stinovik from Bloomberg Radio. In his new book,

journalist Peter S. Goodman writes about davos Man. It's a term coined by the late political scientist Samuel Huntington's. It refers to a group of very well known individuals in the business and broader world. We talk about him a lot. Yeah, They're known to attend the World Economic Forums annual meeting

in Davos, Switzerland, when it takes place in person. Anyway, they're the elite executives, the ones that we in the business media, well, we cover them a lot, the movers and shakers, the billionaires that were constantly discussing on Bloomberg. In fact, this group I think we probably mentioned several times throughout the week. The thing is, Peter isn't a

fan of davos Man. Peter is the New York Times Global economics correspondent, and he talks about this in his new book, davos Man, How the Billionaires Devoured the World, and uh, he gets into he's talking about specifically, I'm using it to describe not only foum participants and billionaires, but a special kind of billionaire who would have us

believe that their interests are our interests collectively. And that's this idea that if we organize our economies and our societies around sending more wealth to the people who already have most of it, the magic of trickle down economics will take care of the rest and we will all prosper. We've been running an open air experiment in this idea that I refer to as the cosmic lie for the last half century, and the results are not at all pretty.

This is an idea that davos Man uses really to protect himself against democracies trying to redistribute the wealth in a fair way. Well, you choose five of these Davos meant to to highlight throughout the book. Jeff Bezos, Stephen Schwartzman, Larry Think, Jamie Diamond, Mark Bennioff names that our audience is certainly familiar with. Why these five folks, and look and they're all men. Yeah, well, look, in reality, davos Man is mostly male, mostly American, mostly white. There are

lots of exceptions, but that's that's the rule. Um. You know, Look, I could have picked almost anybody within the billionaire class who goes to Davos and come up with largely the same book. I take these guys because you know, it's a cross section of finance and tech. Uh. And two of them, Benny Off and Larry Fink in particular, are champions of this idea, stakeholder capitalism, you know, much heralded,

much celebrated by much of the business press. This notion that Milton Freedman is um is over and that companies are no longer just organized to return profit to shareholders. Now they're catering to what they call stakeholders, that's labor, local communities, uh, social aims. And you know, I argue in the book that the pandemic was really the first

big test of stakeholder capitalism. In in the summer en a bunch of CEOs coalescing at the Business Roundtable then headed by Jamie Diamond actually signed off on this new statement of a purpose of a corporation. And I argue, and I think the pandemic makes pretty clear that they used this pledge of stakeholder capitalism as a way to say, you know, we've got this. You don't need to tax us, you don't need to regulate us. We you can outsource

to us with confidence. Uh. The solving of the world's biggest problems like climate change, like gender and racial inequality, and the pandemic has shown that that was really crude exercise in public relations. You know, Peter, it's really interesting because it's just coming off a conversation we just had about E s G investing, which we talked about a lot here at Bloomberg, and there's so much money going into I'm sure you know into the world of E s G to the point where it's becoming, you know,

a very significant percentage of overall assets that are out there. Um, how do we kind of change this because I think there's a lot of investors I think they're doing good by tapping into E s G and yet it kind of is many would argue it's not. I mean, we need more transparency, like there's Look, there's nothing wrong with the idea of stakeholder capitalism or E s G. Right.

I mean, if companies want to actually try to solve social aims and they're being transparent about that, and some investors don't want to ride on that particular boat, they don't have to put their money there, that's fine. But we need a way to actually test these claims instead of just you know, taking it. I mean, I mean here, you know, take a guy like Mark Beniot, who's the guy who does a lot of philanthropy. This is the

CEO of Salesforce, big Silicon Valley tech company. He actually says at Davos last year virtual gathering because they couldn't meet because of the pandemic. CEOs are the real heroes of the pandemic. And he's not talking about frontline medical workers. He's not talking about parents dealing with kids cooped up dealing with business learning, or essential workers delivering our food CEOs and he says, uh, you know, it was the eos of companies who gave us vaccines and credits that

staved off bankruptcy. Specifically said, the government didn't save you, we save you. You were talking about how Mark Bennioff of Salesforce, UH, last year at the Virtual Davos event, talked about how the CEOs the were the real heroes. Um. And you write about that in your book. You also you engaged with with Mark Bennioff for this book. You spoke to him, UM, And I know I'm wondering what the productive conversation is around that, Like what did he

tell you when you when faced with your criticism. Yeah, he seemed to be into the back and forth, which I think is an indicator of how you know, these guys use their participation in what they call multi stakeholder dialogues. They love to go to Davos and engage in these earnest conversations about climate change and race and class, and they just don't like to actually do anything. They're not

into sacrifice. They're into finding wind wind solutions to every problem and using Davos to to you know, signal their virtue. So Benny Off will talk openly about anything. I mean, I've been to Davos and seeing CEOs like benning Off go off and simulate the Syrian refugee experience. You know. They'll be blindfolded and let around in the dark while people are shouting at them in a language they don't understand,

demanding papers. And then they all congratulate themselves for their empathy and they go off and eat truffles and drink champagne and a banquet, you know, hosted by some global bank. Benny Off was was very willing to get into it, but the status quo reigns with Davos. Man, how do

we work through this? Tim and I talked about this a lot Peter about I certainly feel fortunate, but I am the granddaughter of immigrants who came with nothing, you know, and I've seen or heard about parents going through the depression, Like how do I But I've worked really hard to achieve a certain amount and you know, and not on the level of billionaires. I understand that, but I feel very torn certainly. Um, there are people who are just in the equity market. So there four o one case

who have benefited during this pandemic. We're not billionaires. We have benefited, others have not. So what's the productive? Like Tim talks about, what's the productive conversation that we need to be having? Is it with lawmakers? Is it with CEOs? With it? You know, we do this at Bloomberg. We have these conversations and get to some uncomfortable areas. So how do we get to a better point here or what's what is it that we need to be asking

of these CEOs? You know, we don't really need anything radical, uh, and we don't really need to ask much of the CEOs. I mean they can go on and maximize profits and look for innovation and run their companies. That's all good and well. I mean I'm not I'm not suggesting that we ought to expect that they're going to be what they tell us they are, these like agents of social progress.

Their CEOs let them run their companies. But those of us who are living in democracy ought to be demanding the things that we used to have, progressive taxation, labor power so that workers can actually get a commensurate share of the gains, and we need anti trust enforcement. And this is not some sort of radical agenda that this is like what we had in the years after the Second World War to till the mid nineteen seventies, and

you know, we could do that again. It's it's not easy because davos Man has formidable apparatus that he uses to fight off any attempts to redistribution, any any attempts had change. But that's you know, that's a proven solution, uh, in terms of, you know, generating economic games that are helpful to more people. What about a wealth tax, Peter, what has your reporting told you about the efficacy of a wealth tax? I mean, we've got to have a wealth tax, and anything short of a wealth tax just

simply isn't fair. And then most people feel like the game is working. I mean, Jeff Bezos, his income is eighty three thousand dollars a year. That's a salary from Amazon. He's paid about as much as a public school teacher in California. If we tax income, then we live in a world where Jeff Bezos, Steve Schwartzman, who's also a main character in my focus, worth thirty five billion dollars. These guys are gonna be paying less in their income and wealth to the government and the people who are

scrubbing their toilets. And the result of that isn't simply that we can't finance government programs that it turns out we actually need, especially in an emergency like a pandemic. It's also that we then live in a democracy where large numbers of people have legitimately concluded that their needs and interest, their ability to support their families just doesn't count very much for the for the powers to be.

And you can draw a direct line between that and the rage that we feel in American life into the January six insurrection, the fact that huge numbers of people won't take these COVID vaccines. I mean, a lot of this is just foundationally. The people don't believe in the system,

and not because they're crazy. I'm not condoning where they go with their conspiracy theories and their racist tropes, but they're they're vulnerable to political opportunists who will cater to their worst instincts, and unless we deal with inequality, we're stuck with that. That's Peter S. Goodman, global economics correspondent for the New York Times. His new book, davos Man, How the Billionaires Devoured the World, is out now. That's that the first hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg

Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Carol Masser and I'm Tim Stanback. Coming up in our next hour, the business of ultra high net worth luxury that davos Man surely partakes in. We're talking eight and nine figures, super yachts and homes that cost fifty million dollars or more. Who's selling and who's buying will explain. I do believe there was a story this week about Jeff Bezos and his yacht in a bridge. Was it in Amsterdam? Yeah, well yeah it was in the Netherlands. Um and the other

yacht is so big that they have to dismantle the bridge. Yeah, just saying, just gonna put that out there the context, speaking of like infrastructure, right, speaking of a lot of stuff. Plus, there's a new trend sweeping the footwear business. It is called not my term, but it is called ugly core. We'll tell you which company is cornering the market. And I'm going to have to tell you a couple of

those names. A couple of those ugly corps of ugly corps, but you were telling me that, Okay, there's a few in my home. You can't shy away from the U words. The story right, and on a more serious side. Up next, we discuss our cover story. It's about the demise of a single newspaper and how it tells just how far China will go to bring Hong Kong into live. This

is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and tech news as it happens. Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovin on Bloomberg Radio. Hi am Carol Masser, and plenty ahead in our second hour of the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week, including a look at how Decker's Outdoor is turning some pretty profits by building an ugly

Sioe empire. Plus the height of luxury by land and by sea. We'll talk super yachts with the CEO of Burgess and the fifty million dollar home club with our Bloomberg Pursuits team. You get a fifty million dollar home, you've got to get a fifty million dollar yacht. They go together. I don't make the rules. No, alright, first up though this hour, let's get to this week's cover story. It's an important one, a serious one. Now. You might remember back in June of last year, Hong Kong authority

shut down Apple Daily. It was a popular, really popular newspaper aligned with the city's democracy movement. It's become clear that China's attack on the publisher was a template for a broader crackdown on independent organizations of all kinds in Hong Kong, and it's only getting worse. To learn more, we caught up with the man who wrote the piece, Bloomberg News Asia Government senior reporter Ian Marlow. Apple Daily

was an enormously popular newspaper in Hong Kong. Just to give you a sent there were roughly three point eight million registered users on the website, which is roughly half the city's population, and just before they were shut down, they had more than more than six hundred thousands paying digital subscribers. So very popular with a huge source of news. But it was also at the heart to some extent

of the pro democracy movement in Hong Kong. It was owned by Jimmy Lai, a very wealthy tycoon in Hong Kong, who, unlike the other uh you know, establishment figures in that city, was willing to use his resources, his financial firepower to push back against China, to push back against what they were doing in Hong Kong with regards to pushing the National Security Law through, uh you know, jailing all these

pro democracy advocates and those sorts of things. So he was a prime target not just for the local Hong Kong government, for Beijing more broadly, and they had singled him out numerous times, uh you know, for being a sort of rabble rouser in Hong Kong. And when the government went after his paper, they really went after. They froze the bank accounts, they arrested the top staff. There were five hundred police officers sent to raid the headquarters

in Hong Kong. This was unprecedented in a city that is not just the global financial center, but was also a sort of regional base for international media companies from from Bloomberg to CNN to to others. So it was the shound was shocked, but it was also to a large degree template for what Beijing wanted to do with Hong Kong in the future. And since it was shut,

things have only accelerated further. You know, Ian, I think about I worked at the Wall Street Journal on a broadcast called the Wall Street Journal Report, and I mean, Hong Kong was this safe zone, right and you know, um when it came to business markets, uh, you name it, uh, and everybody kind of looked to Hong Kong is maybe a sign of what was hopefully to come were broadly in China, and now we're finding out that that's not

the case. By targeting Apple Daily, right, it could have targeted you know, a lot of things initially, but by really going aggressively after Apple Daily, that you what, yeah, I mean, it basically tells you that light in mainland China, there is just zero tolerance for anything that could represent an alternate power center in Hong Kong. And systematically, bit by bit, the government had gone after the opposition politicians in Hong Kong, Tho's democracy advocates who were actually working

within the system. They went after Apple Daily, you know, right off the bat closed that that was a huge source of opposition support. Then they started going after smaller targets. They started going after charities, NGO's, some of the organizations that had, you know, promoted some of the peaceful protests over over the past you know, twenty years um and but basically one by one sort of dismantled anything that could represent any threat at all to China getting its

way in Hong Kong. And and Apple Daily was absolutely, without any doubt it was the biggest one there. And I think that the big thing about Apple Daily's UH closure was, you know what happened. Everyone was saying, well,

who Who's next? And I don't think anyone's really even asking that question anymore because everything that's happening people guests from the outset of the National Security Law of being put down in June, that basically gone after anything that represents memorials to the t eminence, where anyone was agitating in a labor union, all those sorts of things by the and now even just this week, we saw the University of Hong Kong, which is one of the most

prestigious universities in the city, just had a visa rejected for a researcher who is meant to come into the city just to do UH you know, research on LGBT key rates and so it's sort of a endless procession here where you know, anything can be considered somewhat uh anti establishment if the authorities really feel like it's it's a threat to them. So um, you know. And the other thing here is that Apple Daily was a business.

It was was owned by a publicly listed company. Jimmy Lai had seventy one percent of the shares in that company. He was overruled and he was, uh, there was a government order for him not to exercise his voting right and then the government throws the accounts without any resource to the courts, and then that he was shut down. So that's something that I think a lot of people in Hong Kong are concerned about because essentially the skies the limit now in terms of what the government can

use this law for. That was Bloomberg News Asia Government senior reporter Iain Marlowe. He wrote this week's cover story. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Coming up next bloated dad, sneakers, furry sandals and open toe boots. Tim, come on, you've got a few in your class. I do, well, Okay, so we're talking uggs and more. Next, but growing up in southern California and surfing, like surfers wore ugs, so it was funny to see them in the early part

of the two thousands, go to like really cool. So you're saying you're ahead of this ugly You crazy, but I didn't know. Yeah, but I wasn't because I was cool. All Right, We're going to talk about how Decker's Outdoors making billions selling so called ugly core Footbear. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business this Week with Carol Masser and

Bloomberg Quick takes Tim Stinovik from Bloomberg Radio. Ugly core It's a fashion trend that scorns beauty in favor of self affirmation, and while it isn't new, it is garnering interest from a whole new group of clientele. The style is attracting more customers in part because quote, the collective hangover of two years of barely squeezing a foot into a heel, pump, loafer, wingtip, Oxford or even a pair of ballet flats has intensified and unapologetic love affair with

pragmatic footwear. Well, that beautifully written line comes from Bloomberg News reporter Kimbasin. He used to cover luxury and retail. Current beat entails covering celebrities, athletes and their business dealings, as well as big sports companies. So, Kim, let's talk about Decker's outdoor. Where does that kind of fit into your beat? Yeah? So I cover like sportswear companies as well, like Nike and um under Armor. So so this kind

of falls in there. I do a lot of a lot of footwear work, and ugly shoes are certainly part of that. All right, So what is ugly core? Tell us what that really means, because unfortunately I have some ugly core in my closet. Yeah, so, so beyond the definition that that we came up with up there. Um, some examples are like, you know those easy phone runners.

They look like marshmallows, but they have holes in them. Um. Converse has made some of these things where they've put like, uh, they've rubberized their Chuck Taylors so they look like rain boots. Um Crocs are probably one of the best examples here. Those are shoes with holes in them that are made out of this weird home it's it's it's these kinds of shoes that aren't, Um, they just look a little off, right that they don't look like like a like a

ADDA superstar sneaker or something like that. They just look a little weird. Well, I mean you're saying that a pair of Crocs with a piece of KFC Fried chicken hanging off of it looks weird? Kim, No, no, unless you you're really really indicacy exactly. Well, hey, let's talk a little bit about where Decker's outdoor crocks. The share price was up four percent last year, it's down this year, but basically like Tesla over the last few years. Yeah,

no joke, I mean it's been yeah, stratospheric, Kim. I want to talk about Decker's outdoor though, because they have Teva, Uh, they have the aforementioned Hoca shoes. Am I saying that right? Kim? Hoca? Yes, I think Coca. Yeah, and among many others including as well, um, Where's Where's How does Decker embrace that what you refer to as the you were Yeah, so those company is

about fifty years old. For nine years old and at this point it's the last physical year at the two point five billion in revenue and they built themselves up by buying up a lot of these other brands. So what started as a company that just made one little flip flop, which is actually kind of boring. It was just it was just a flip flop brought on these other, these other weird two brands like uh like UG, and

UG has been really the driver for them. It has been its biggest brand for for so many years until very recently when Hocus sur passed it at one point last year. And those are those are running shoes, but they're like engorged, enormous sold running shoes that are very, very comfortable and compete with the best kind of athletic wear shoes on the planet. All right, First of all, I have bugs on as we speak. I didn't know that. It's interesting is before we got going, Kim Tim and

I were talking about Hoka. Because what's interesting is my older sister was the first one to say, all these Hoca sneakers they're not pretty, but they're so comfortable. I love them. Okay, she's older. And then my eighteen year old daughter is like, I gotta have Hoca sneakers. Mom, Like, it's amazing the gamut of people who are tapping into these Yeah, and the things that the ugly word is is.

It was really do they use the ugly word? Well, I talked to a bunch of different executives here and they have different opinions on it, right, So one of them said, you know, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Another one said, um, she said, we would build out of simplicity and purity of purpose. And then the CEO, his name is Dave Powers. I went out to California to visit him and chat with him, and he took me through their their design area and everything.

He was like, I don't I don't mind the ugly moniker. Uh he said, quote it basically says you're different, You're owning something distinct. It's a little off, but there's something

interesting about it. Well, how much of this sort of turned to ugly was about really shaking things up and getting noticed, Because when I first started seeing these these shoes come out, I was like, wait a second, it looks like they're trying to make these ugly on purpose, because this is actually part of a serious turnaround strategy

for the company. Yeah, the original versions of these things really came out of practmatism, like these were um comfortable shoes that it made sense to make them this way. But if you look all the way up into the last few years where um Deckers was in trouble, back in seventeen so and not not all that long ago, um ugs were no longer raking in the It wasn't growing anymore, right, and they were spending more than they were taking in. So at that point there was activists

investors who wanted a sale or merger. They said everything was underperforming, so they embarked on a new turnaround strategy. This is pretty uh typical of what companies do in this situation, meaning they consolidate um their operations, they sell off weaker brands, they closed doors, there's some layoffs that that kind of thing. But from there you saw them really look to attract attention again, like they wanted to

do something that would get people's eyes back on and Teva. Yeah, and it sounds like they've been really clever Kim in terms of tapping into the luxury world, whether it's bloom Ees or Sacks or Nordstrom right, who are carrying their brands. Valenciaga right, creating um a croc shoe with a heel like they really just I feel like, I guess what I'm curious about. Two is you spend some time there?

Is it just like the team, there's all these just crazy examples out there, and it's like, go ahead, team, do whatever you want. Let's see what we can do. Walking through that design on floor, you see an entire like the full breadth of shoes. It's it's insane. Like you see the very extremely bland, regular like slip on shoes that look like Vans, right, and then you see a massive fuzzy boot in some like leopard print, and

and it's it's all like in the same room. That's because they're given so much, Uh, the guardrails on their design process are have been taken down pretty far. Now when you come up with something uh that's too weird, you have to go through a few iterations to to bring that back down a little bit to put it into some kind of uh, you know, sellable shoe. But um, you know, because they're given that kind of leeway, you get to see some very new interesting things. All Right,

we gotta run, Kim, thank you so much. That's Bloomberg News reporter kimbas Seen. His story featured in the latest issue of the magazine. It's on newsstands now and online at business week dot Com. Still to come sailing the high season style and the high price tag to match

sometimes one million dollars. Well it's not enough. This is Bloomberg broadcasting from the financial capital of the world, Bloomberg Eleve in Frio in New York to Washington, d C. Bloomberg to Boston, Bloomberg one oh six one to San Francisco, Bloomberg nine sixty to the country Sirius XM Chado one nine and around the globe the Bloomberg Business app and

Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This is Bloomberg Business Week. This could be called revenge spending on steroids, and that is the uber wealthy who are out there spending on super yachts or at least chartering them with more on an industry with a very select set of customers and price tags that will blow your mind. We turned to Jonathan Beckett. He also goes by Joff. He's the CEO of UK based Burgess Yachts and says that his team has seen an unexpected boom in business during the pandemic. As we

went into COVID. I think everybody was battling down the hatches and you know, expecting the worst, planning for the worst, and hoping for the best. And you know, from September or October and all the way through we hit record highs and it was it's been the most extraordinary period of time for our industry. You know. I've talked to people in the in the boat world and they have said it has been off the charts boats of all

sizes and prices of just people in the pandemic. And I think it's also the wealth creation, certainly in certain substrata, if you will, or strata of our of our society. Jeff tell us about who's been buying, uh, you know, across the world, you know, and what kind of yachts are we talking about. You know, it's really across the board, you know, from Australia and New Zealand, you know, through Russia, Asia, America, Europe.

And I think, you know, this is the first time that many of our clients have actually felt vulnerability, you really experienced vulnerability before, you know. I think, you know a lot of our clients felt bulletproof and very secure with with their business and the environment and the economy and for the first time. You know, they were sort

of almost helpless um and felt very vulnerable. And and as you say, there's been a lot of wealth creation, and so why put off for five years time or ten years time when you know when you could be doing it today and enjoying it with your family today. And I think that's had a big play in our market. Well, what the typical purchase? Is there a typical purchase you could kind of layout for us, you know, I mean, I mean, I think the marine industry across the board

has done exception well in the last eighteen months. But you know, the typical purpose in our market is probably an average of around fifty million dollars. And you know that that market, you know, there's been a sort of feeding frenzy. And prices are not prices are sensible, They're not, They're not inflated, but you know they're good prices. There's no there are no cheap boats around. What does what does a million dollar yacht look like? What does it

get you? What does a fifty million dollar yacht look like? It's probably you know, it's it's around sixty two hundred feet, will accommodate twelve to fourteen guests have a crew of six to eighteen and you know transatlantic range. It's you know, it's it's a world it's a world cruiser and full of luxury. But our market goes goes from ten million dollars up to you know, six hundred million dollars you know,

the very heavy heights. It's it's an absolute extraordinary world. Yeah, and it's a lot of motor arts, but I know you have sailing, which is my my favorite always and it's fun to look at who's buying though, is it? You know we used to say on some of this stuff and some of this really high end luxury um products, if you will, that it was a lot of tech you know, entrepreneurs and so on and so forth. Who's

doing the buying though? You know that our market is you know, the American market is very very important to us. It's probably thirty of the world market. Um. And there are certainly a lot of a number of tech you know, young tech entrepreneurs, but you know the market is very traditional and you know people in you know, in finance,

in property, in you know, car dealerships, manufacturing, um. You know a lot of our clients are involved in businesses Um, that that produce a lot of units that everybody, everybody wants and you know it could be talking about cardboard boxes or shampoo or toothpaste or right, yeah, we all use a lot of that stuff and that produces makes a lot of people wealthy. You also do a lot of chartering. Tell us about that side of the business

as well. Well. Charting was very difficult in obviously UM and a lot of chances were either canceled or or pushed into one was was almost our best year ever. It wasn't quite our best year ever, but t was our best year. That's Jeff Beckett, the CEO of Burgess Yachts, interesting that even when there's volatility in the market's right there, get maybe a little bit nervous about yeah, expenditures. Um, all right, you're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Coming up,

we go from super yachts to super homes. Our Bloomberg Pursuits team takes us inside the most exclusive living spaces from all corners of the u S. I think there's a property in Colorado. I'm like, it's got your name, all yeah, it's the one that one's pretty close to Aspen. Are you okay? With the price tag too. Yeah, I'll take it. There's also a nice one not just outside of San Francisco as well, that I got my eye on. I want the one to hit the Hamptons. Okay, well

we'll share. This is Bloomberg. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. More ultra luxury homes are selling across the US than ever before. We're talking about properties that starred in the range of well, you know the kind that we look at, Tim, fifty million or more. Perhaps I don't know about you, Carol, but the only place I'm looking at these homes is on the pages of

Bloomberg business Week magazine. That's the week our Bloomberg for Suits team is taking us all over the country and sometimes inside these amazing abodes. I think it's fair to say you can call them compounds, Carol. So where are these houses local? Aiden, who lives there? And more importantly, are we invited? I guess we could go to the open houses. Yeah, you probably they probably actually probab wouldn't return such quick little Google search. You'll probably check your

assets in your portfolio before you're let in. Hey, Bloomber, Pursuits editor Chris Rows and arts columnist James Tarmy are here with all the details. James wrote the cover piece of Pursuits this week, and James a heavy lift. Well, you know it's funny, James. Our last guest told us that super yachts are more in demand than ever. Evidently the same goes for super pricy homes. What's going on? Well, was the best year ever for homes price fifty million

dollars and above in terms of their sales. Um. You know, these houses have always been around, but they haven't necessarily been flying off the shelf until very recently. But the rich are getting richer and they are eager to spend. And so we went around the country looking at different houses that really kind of crossed the fifty million dollars special to show you kind of what you can get and where. And one of the interesting things, um that James and I learned while we were looking at this.

So James wrote a story that said, you know, okay that we've broken this record on fifty million dollar homes. I said, okay, we've got to see these houses. What are they like? And James made the observation that some of them are priced uh like unrealistically. I mean, it's over fifty million dollar, seems unrealistically, unrealistic to all of us. But some of them are like sort of on spec Some are just big pieces of property and they're a

hundred fifty million dollars and it's just not real. That's going to come down a lot. So James is James. James task was to find places that are sort of like accurately price and probably will sell for about that range. And my favorite is the one that he sort of opens the story with, which is a sixty million dollar property in East Hampton, which is literally to die, James, It's sorry, so you don't need sixty right, let's let's go, let's go. But it's location, location, location, I feel like

James for this one. Yeah, completely. And you know, if you actually look around at all of the properties, the majority of them are on the water or have just other unbelievable views. But but most of them happen to

be on the water. The house that we open with is in East Hampton, on this tiny stretch of land between Georgia Pond and uh the Atlantic Ocean, and uh, it's yes, sixty million dollars is a lot of money, but there are actually comparable It's Calvin Klein, the designer sold two lots of few doors down for around eighty five million dollars last year. So again, just as Chris said, a lot of people, you know, I could price my apartment at a hundred million dollars, doesn't mean it we'll

sell it a hundred million dollars. And a lot of people tend to slap super high prices as a form of price discovery, you know, what will someone pay for it? But the houses around the country that we found that are basically, uh reasonable if you can call a ninety million dollar house on left an acre and a man made island off of the Miami reasonable. Um, these are these are places that that have a very good chance

of selling at or around um asked. And I have to say that it's sort of began to feel a little bit like fifty million dollars was a bargain. Was looking at the actual array of houses down come down here. Well, Carol, Carol was right in the beginning when when you talked about the one on this list that would be the one that I went for and it would of course be in Colorado where I could ski, I could mountain bike. This one just outside of Aspen, fifteen thousand square feet,

it's near Independence Pass. Uh, just a fantastic area of the country. Fifty one million dollars. But James, it comes with um an oxygen system in the primary bedroom. So even if you're at you know, roughly you know, eight thousand feet or you can feel like you're at sea level. Yeah, that's exactly right. And um every single house comes with something special, you know, that's that's the real that's the real thing, and it comes with something that that really

justifies it. There's another there's a townhouse, for instance, on the Upper east Side that comes with you know, there are a lot of fancy town Upper east Side townhouses, but there aren't a lot of town houses that have double height entrance ways and a wall full of windows and a spiral staircase that runs to the top of it. Also one of the through lines through a lot of these homes that there were multiple elevators. You know, the

Colorado home that you referenced in aston that has two elevators. Um, I mean, it's it's it's kind of crazy. It's not exactly the five floor or the what is it like, the fifth floor walk up kind of thing. You know. There's also give a country estate in Virginia that actually has a brewery and a restaurant. Yes, so this place

is massive. It's more than three thousand acres um and so the owner of it was able to turn it into a revenue producing sort of event venue without sacrificing the property of his own home because she had a few thousand acres to play around with. And so, yes, there's a brewery, Yes there's a restaurant. Yes there's a wedding venue. There's also a go kart track, a two lingo track so that you can raise your friends, and

a one hundred and eighty foot long water slide. And the owner of the property explicitly built this as a place where he could hang out and have fun with his kids. And as I was going through it, I sort of reflected on my own childhood, which began to feel like a pretty raw deal in comparison. So sorry, that's just really blegal. No, no, no, no, no, um, it's a little row. All right, We're gonna transition to something el Um, We're getting a little more lighthearted. Chris

writes about his six month haircut. I want to go right there because, first of all, I'm really ticked off that we don't have pictures of what Chris went through in the magazine. But what did you do? So? Um? You know, the pandemic is a time that a lot of people sort of thought, maybe I should change my hair. I don't know if you have any friends that dyed their hair blue or blonde right at the beginning of it,

or just grew it to their shoulders. Um. I decided kind of late in the pandemic that, um, maybe I needed to change in my hair. And I've had the same haircut. I've had like almost like a sort of military style crew cut for more than twenty years, and it's because one of my early twenties I made some very bad hair mistakes and I had bleached blonde hair down to my eyes. I looked like Justin Bieber. I

was always flicking it out of my face. And when I cut it, finally, friends, strangers, and enemies all universally said to me, oh my god, thank god you cut your hair. Because bouncer or somebody come up to yes, a bouncer at a Meatpacking District nightclub who had no idea k who I existed, was like, dude, thank god you cut that hair. So I said, the article is really a sing photos from that period? What is going on?

Always use a picture of Brad Pitt. This needed to be a photo essay, not now it actually written one. There are photos online. UM. I will never show the photos from the Justin bieber Biver phase. But after that, I just like, you know what I love just going to a barber and telling them, okay, you know, a number two on the side, half inch off the top and we're done. You know, like a lot of guys just love a very simple, straightforward you're ordering a sandwich

or something. And then I got my haircut by this celebrity hairstylist, Kristen Serafino, who's really awesome, and she had this pop up in the West Village and I went and she was like, let's try something different and let's go on a six month haircut journey. Will do three cuts, and you know, the first cut will be your old cut, the second will be like something we've done together, and

the third will be something totally brand new. Um. And so I did it, and I grew my hair out to longer than it was when it was in my justin Bieber phase, and then we ended up cutting it back to where it is now, which is where I really like it. And the whole point was that, you know, men's hair changes as they get older. You know, if you lose density, it turns gray. Like you wouldn't wear the same shirt every day for your whole life. So Kristen says, you know, why don't you wouldn't You can't

have your same haircut. You've gotta try, and you can't just try from one haircut to another. You've gotta give it some some runway. Um. And she showed me these pictures of Brad Pitt at one of the Ones upon a time in Hollywood premiers and she was like, this is what I think your hair could look like. And I said, Kristen, if I show people this picture and say that this is what I want to look like, they will think that I am insane. James city show

you pictures and say that or no. Um. You know, honestly, I'm a little bit wounded that he didn't. We all are, We all are, and you know it. Um. You know, sometimes I hated it sometimes I really liked it. But I have always parted my hair on one side. I've always styled it in the same way, and I now part of it on a different side, which it doesn't sound crazy but actually really changes the way that your face looks. And I'm very happy with it, and I

recommend everyone do it. Can I tell you when for those of us who do on air work like you change your part and you should see like the mail you get like it's so dramatic or managers coming out like what did you do? Yes? Yes, sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not. Um, it's a great story, a really fun read. Hey, we can't forget the Super Bowl just around the corner. Can we talk? Can we talk nachos? Please? I've been waiting to talk about this because I'm actually

pretty hungry. This is what we were fighting over our food editor for Pursuits, Cake Creator Details and you Cook but cookbook and it's specifically about nachos in various forms of glory. Perfect timing of course for the big Game. Oh yes, so this chef Dan Whalen wrote a cookbook. It's called Nachos for Dinner. Surprising sheet Pan meals. The whole family will love, and there's an asterisk. Just because they can serve as a meal doesn't mean it's a

healthy meale. It just could serve as that. They could be hard user and it's so good. There's street corn nachos, which are like a Lote style nachos. There's capraising nachos where it's you know, like little Mozerrol tim in a salad on nachos. And we even feature um some chicken and waffle nacho thos where the nacho is the waffle. Thanks to Bloomberg Pursuits editor Chris Rouser and arts columnist James Tarmy for joining us with a look at the

latest and greatest in pursuits. And that wraps up the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Thanks so much for joining us. I'm Tim Stanivik and I'm Carol Master. Be sure to tune into Bloomberg Business Week Monday through Friday starting at two pm Wall Street time on Bloomberg Radio. Also check out our daily broadcast on YouTube. Just search Bloomberg Global News and check out our Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Find that at Bloomberg dot com, Apple

or wherever you get your podcast, Bloomberg Business Week. It's available on newstands now, at Bloomberg dot com and on the Bloomberg terminal. Also check out Quick Take. It's available at Bloomberg dot com, slash Qt also streaming platforms like Roku, Apple TV, Samsung TV and more. Have a good weekend. Everybody buy an ugly shoe. All right, I'm just gonna say this is Bloomberg