Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend-Favorite 2020 Conversations

and innovation. Some of our memorable conversations included three leaders where sustainability is in their company's d n A Yesper Broden, president CEO of INCA Group and Ikea on making the business case for climate action, plus Jenna Johnson of Patagonia unconscious sustainability, and then managing through a crisis with Chipotle CEO Brian Nicol. We begin with someone who understands real estate politics and making a difference to create a more

equal and just world. Don Peoples, Founder, chairman and CEO of the People's Corporation, a privately held national real estate and development company. He's also worked for the Obama campaign and was former chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation. Our conversation last fall began with a look at where we are in real estate. You know, interestingly enough, we're still seeing a lot of tail winds for a single

family real estate. I think single family homes are very strong interest rate stories at historical lows, and so it's propelling a lot of buyers who are able to do that take advantage of it or out in the market buying. So that continued to be a bright spot. I think we're seeing um in some places. What was very interesting is in Los Angeles the condo sales market is actually doing well and uh at a surprising bright spot in

the marketplace. And UH and that's again because people want to get out of their cars, they want to live closer to where they work, and uh in their economy is to getting an open back up. I think the challenge in the industry in real estate overall will be the obvious, which is retail. Brick and mortar, retail and hospitality sectors are a very challenge right now, and the

office is kind of a wait and see right now. Hey, donn As, you're well aware there's this existential discussion going on, argument going on about the future of New York City. Does it have a future? Help right, is it? Uh? What are your thoughts? Of course? I think New York City definitely has a future and it will always be a bright future at the city of eight and a half million people. That being said, about a hundred thousand residents have left Manhattan, which is a significant number out

of two million residents. UM. I think what we're seeing in New York though, is a a perpetuation and continuation of a trend that was beginning to happen before, and it started with the salt. Once the state and local income tax deductions were taken away, it started encouraging more high net worth individuals to relocate to more tax friendly environment and then there was a diminishment of quality of life.

The city got a bit dirtier, crime was creeping up a little bit, and then with this pandemic, it has accelerated that. So I think on the high end, ultra luxury side, the residential market is going to struggle. Their sales volume for residential condos is down significantly and vacancy rates are at you know, um, all time highs um right now, vacancy rates for partners in Manhattan or New York City as a whole over five percent, which is

a very big number. And uh, and then and then there is about almost twenty million square fi of sublet office space. And we're seeing a shift. And what we're also seeing now is millennials coming of age of having being married, having kids and seeking out places that are more conducive to that where the public school systems are more predictable and uh, a little better quality of life and lower costs. So I think we're going to see

a shift of what New York City looks like. Well, so what does it also the mean for You've got the gateway cities and then you've got secondary tertiary cities. I mean, is that where you want to be investing at this point? Maybe not the gateway cities so much or I don't know, how do you see it done? Yeah, I think it's very challenging right now to make any kind of strategic long term investment in New York City.

I think if you look at the emerging markets, the ones that are the what would be the tertiary cities that are emerging, and they're going to become much more dominant players. I would say Charlotte, North Carolina, has significant good news recently. Uh, they just got a new corporate relocation that's going to spend about two billion dollars on the headquarters. UM. You have UH, Tennessee, especially Nashville, UH

continuing to do well. South Florida is on a great run, both on a single family side and attracting more entrepreneurial financial services firms down there, and some of the bigger banks are beginning to look at back a house there there as well. So I think that those types of markets UH, and then some of the other I think the VATA is gonna begin to pick up. In Texas is often doing very well, will continue to do very well.

I think it's the New York that in the Chicago's um that are in the city, the major gateway cities are going to struggle. Boston being an exception to that, because life sciences and the strong intellectual capital in that marketplace are saving it from what would be catastrophic results like what New York is beginning to see right now. So don't just quickly tax You mentioned the tax policy. What can states like New York and New Jersey and some others do. I mean, they just simply try to

get more efficient a combination of things. I mean, I think that I mean were they. New York has to recognize and New Jersey has to recognize that they are losing residents by the moment. I mean, we just launched a new private club in Miami Beach called the Bath Club, which is a private beach club, and we are getting, you know, flooded by applications of people coming from New York relocating down you know, just kind of almost for

the moment. So they've got to So New York, New York, New Jersey have to recognize they've got to compete for residents. So they've got to be much more efficient and take a freshman look at what role the government has, especially in New York City. What is the role of the municipal government. It can't be everything to everybody. It's got a right side and workforce quickly, um and and this administration has been reluctant to do that. And then I think it has to think about longer term tax policy.

New York should be in the business of reducing taxes and spent advising a job generation and productivity. That was People's Corporation CEO Don Peebles. Don also served on the National Finance Committee of President Obama and was a former chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Coming up from real estate to filling homes and buildings with assist annable goods. Ikea knows about that.

We'll hear from INCA Group President and CEO, yes Per Broden. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser from Bloomberg Radio. Another conversation that stood out for us this year is a company and a leader who every day is making the business case for climate action. INCA Group President and CEO, Yesper Broden, home to some three v i Ka furniture and retail stores in thirty

countries with more than two hundred thousand workers. He joined us from the Bloomberg Green Festival this year, and like so many of our conversations, we started off by talking about how his company has changed as a result of the pandemic. For us, like for everybody on this planet, we have been through a very special journey this year, and I must admit us I share with you too.

To be traveling about again, I felt a bit like the old movie Castaway when they're coming back to the office, seeing people and enjoying that also, I must say at the same time, obviously, um, we just like everybody else, have figured out new ways of leading. We have figured out that we we didn't have a map for this situation, but we had a very strong compass I think with the way we like to lead and our values that helped us. Actually, I think take many good decisions. But

it's been a ride. It's been a ride, no doubt about it. It's interesting that you say that, and we're going to get into kind of your sustainability strategy that is so much the IKEA and corporate culture here, But I do wonder having so many of those measures in place, are there any specific anecdotes that you can tell us that helped you guys get through this crisis because of

those green initiatives or sustainable initiatives. Well, you can say, I think the it's all enter tangled, right, people, plan at and business, and you can't take out any of these from the equation. So what happened obviously to us was that we had periods of dramatic closures in our stores and we had to find ways to to both protect ourselves, our people, our customers. Uh. And then on the other hand, we had to make sure that we

could save the jobs for the future. And the way what actually happened in the end of the day was that we were speeding up everything around multi channel and online and we went from a good year to a record loss forecast to actually coming back on half of our estimate the profit in the end of the day, and that was thanks to I think the entrepreneurship of getting things right quickly. Do you think we're through it?

Do you are you guys getting ready for another wave? Well, you know, I think at a certain moment we were. We were quite early on forecasting different scenarios and the period that we have just entered we called the new normal. And I think it's a bit of a deceptive term in a way, because the way we see it is that for at least a year to come, we need to be very agile, very prepared for outbreaks. I think

the term second wave could be misunderstood. So we like to plan for outbreaks and how to deal with that in the best possible way, both for jobs, for business, uh and for everything we do in society and contribute to. And obviously it's clear for all of us that you know, one year later again, it's still going to be learning.

There will be things that we will be um you know, doing differently, and that will be a lot of I think amazing things that we carry with us from this period as well, hopefully including the way we realize the importance of investment in sustainability and the opportunity of doing that right. Well, let's get to that, because despite this being a crazy year, a tumultuous year, you guys are on track. And forgive me, I'm gonna read from my

notes because I want to get it right. You're a track to achieve and exceed a goal to produce as much energy from renewable sources as you consume. By you have made massive investments about two and a half billion

euros in wind and solar power. You've set a goal to be climate positive, meaning you're going to reduce more gas emissions than you admit you are in you know, when it comes to electric electric a hundred percent at the time, ahead of targets, when it comes to deliveries and Shanghai by e V s um you're doing that

in Amsterdam, l A, New York, Paris. And here's something a goal for everyone who's listening by you guys have said your ambition is to inspire and enable one billion people to live a better everyday life within the limits of the planet. It's really heavy stuff and it's impactful stuff. How tough has this been to do? And what has been the business case for climate change for you all?

Or you know? I think I think if you look at the I K S history, you can say we started out with a founder that was a very thrifty person, very smart around resources, and I think that's part of us storry so part of this. You know that sustainability and being smart about peel and planet is part of our legacy. My own story started back in the company when I joined in Asia Pacific. At the time when we invested in I think what is still today an

amazing code of conduct when it comes to production. Those days we had some discussions about can we afford it will drive costs to do the right thing with working hours, salaries, etcetera. And in the end of the day it turned out to be brilliant for business. We have the most efficient partners,

happy coworkers along etcetera. So I think we already then we saw some myths that were we needed to bust and the same goes for for the climate the ghost that we have committed to where we we do not have all the answers yet, so we still have some gaps to be filled to coming years. But we are convinced that this is good business for three reasons, or you can say for two reasons. One is that I coworkers and our customers expect us to take the lead, so it would be I would say dangerous to not

take that lead from from your revenue side. But secularly, the business model we are building is the new low cost so sustainability shows in case by case to be the way we will provide low price furniture in the future. You say, you know a couple of things. You said it was brilliant for the company, So I'm wondering if you can put some numbers on that in terms of

the business case for doing all of this. But I also wonder you said myths to bus because I can only imagine some of the internal you know discussions, yesper that you folks had it said no, we can't do that. I know it's good for the environment, but you know it's going to cost too much or we can't recreate our supply chain, so give me a little bit of

that that feel. But absolutely, I think the best number I can give you is that last year we're very happy and proud that we were able to grow with some six percent plus, which is a good, a decent idea. And at the same time we reduced our absolute common footprint across the whole scope one, two and three with more than four percent, so it was possible to show

healthy growth and at the same time decarbonized if you like. Obviously, we are very humble and respectful to the future to continue that journey with the plan, but that was I think the first year of proof for us. But then you can say to the myths. I think there are three myths that I see over and over again. One is that purpose and profit don't go hand in hand,

which I think and we think is the opposite. And there is a very strong if that sustainability should come at the premium, which I think is very dangerous because then this is a mass movement that needs to involve everybody on this planet, so therefore it should be rather seen as the new low cost And and finally, there are a lot of myths around that consumption is all bad and there is bad consumption, but there is also

sustainable consumption. So these are the type of topics that sometimes lie in the way for taking the right type of action. Purpose and profit don't go hand in hand. Well, dispelling some myths well, also helping to create a more sustainable planet. That was INCA group president and CEO, Yes for Broden. Coming up staying on sustainability with another company that has made it a priority from its inception, will check in with Patagonia ahead Jenna Johnson. This is Bloomberg.

This is Bloomberg Business Week with Garrol Massier from Bloomberg Radio. We'll bring you some of our memorable conversations from this year, some of the highlights, and we've heard from our past two guests a lot about sustainability and when you think of conscious sustainability, one company that has it in its DNA is Patagonia and at this year is Bloomberg Sustainable Business Summit. Patagonia Inchead Jenna Johnson talked about what makes

her company's culture different. Patagonia is a really interesting and unique culture. I've never worked at a company before where um the internal employees, the culture is so strong because everyone has very intentionally chosen to come to Patagonia. UM. Certainly there's a lot of locals who work at the organization, but a lot of people have actually moved to one of our headquarters specifically to work for us because they

believe so much in our mission. And when you get that, you get this really special energy um humming about the organization as everyone is trying to think as creatively, um and intelligently as we can about this you know, massive goal that we're trying to go after in bringing our planet back to health. Well, let's talk about I think it was about a year ago. You guys change your mission statement, and I want to read it so that

I get it right. It went from build the best product, caused no unnecessary harm, use business to inspire and implement solutions to the environmental crisis, to the new mission. We're in business to save our home planet. I mean, you're still adhering to the old mission, but there is no doubt about what's at stake. I know you and I

talked to the prep call. I mean, we need to be thinking about our environment because everything we do is impacting it, either negatively or positively, and we need to be more positive in terms of impact, because there's no going back. If we don't have an environment, then none of this matters. It's so true. You know, you often here there's no business to be done on a dead planet, and that's exactly how we feel. UM. As you mentioned our old mission statement, it was really important to us,

and it continues to be really important to us. UM. Those three main pillars are still very much UM rooted in the work that we do every single day. They're actually part of our B Corp UM values and our b Corp pillars, so we are still held accountable to those UM. But we really felt like although the organization and the company had galvanized around these important pillars, we really knew that we needed to sharpen our focus right

now more than ever. We are running out of time. UM. We absolutely need to turn this climate crisis around, and we have to use our business and we hope others will use their business in order to focus on this. And you know we often said, like, yes, the mission statement that we're in business to save our home planet. It is bold, it is fairly audacious, it is UM.

It puts a lot of urgency under each of our steps, and we won't be able to achieve that mission on our own, and our hope is that other businesses see that mission. And we imagine a world in which every business would take on the same mission statement. And then what we could do together if all of us were using our business to influence our individuals, the communities, UM and bring again, you know, our planet back to health.

It won't happen just with Patagonia. We're not naive to that. Um. Yeah, but we hope other businesses join us in our mission. So how easy is it to do? Because you guys are a profitable business. You've been around for a long time. I know your private company, so you don't necessarily have to release numbers. You donate one percent of your sales everywhere every year to environmental efforts and non off it specifically, how easy or has it gotten easier to be a

sustainable company? You know, to create a supply chain that that is that way that it was when you guys and Von started the company years ago. You know, it's interesting. In some ways it's easier and in some ways it's

a whole lot harder. Um, it is not easy. I won't live We wake up every day and we're dealing with probably one of the most complex businesses in the world trying to be profitable work in an apparel and equipment industry and UM and do it in a way that has you know, zero impact, if not positive impact on the trajectory of this climate crisis. That is a bold, UM and big challenge every single day we come in to do our business. But it is not impossible and

it actually makes life UM very interesting. Were never bored, we say a pentagon. There's always were done, always a new challenge to tackle. UM. You know, back in the day when we first started UM, including in for example, recycled polyester into our collection. UM, nobody else was using recycled polyester. Was it incredibly difficult. Yes, it took years and years and years of working and building relationships within the supply chain in order to get people to make advances.

So in some ways today recycled polyester is a lot more available UM. But the hard part is the more

you learn, the harder the challenge becomes. So we know that although recycling is critical and an important part of the waste pollution problem out there, we also now understand a lot more about the impact of our business than we did back in for example, and so the issues become really complex as we start looking at our carbon footprint overall and measuring the company's impact on the environment remains definitely at the forefront of Patagonia's priori of these.

That was Jenna Johnson, head of Patagonia Inc. Coming up, we mentioned that we had a trio of CEOs that are focusing on sustainability. Well, that includes our next discussion with Chipotle CEO Brian Nicol. He talked about managing through the pandemic. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser from Bloomberg Radio. Well, someone who I got to talk to a couple of times throughout is

Chipotle Mexican Girl CEO Brian Nicol. He was featured in the magazine as a Bloomberg Business Week Talks this year. He also stopped by for our Bloomberg fifty Virtual celebration in early December, just before the emergency approval and roll out of the COVID nineteen vaccines. I began by asking

if Chipotle would make vaccinations mandatory for its employees. You we would not require people to take the vaccine, Obviously, I would want to do everything I can to make sure that they have access to the vaccine, especially those that are in those high risk groups. And I think you know, your health and wellness is ultimately your personal decision, UM.

Whatever your decision is. Though, if you aren't feeling healthy, UM, and you happen to have COVID, we do need you to, you know, take those precautions to not get other people infected. But I'm focused on trying to stay in touch with people. So I understand when vaccines get approved, how they will be distributed and how I best get our employees access to those vaccines. Um. But you know, at the end of the day, they need to make that decision for themselves. Well.

And I do wonder too, you know, I think that's really interesting to hear. And I feel like Chipoli has been throughout its history a company that thinks a lot about its employee base. So how do you keep you know, your employees safe, motivate motivated during these trying times? And we talk about, you know, corporate culture. When you've got people at home and people all over the place, how do you keep though your workers who have to be at work in order to get the job done. How

do you keep a motivated during these trying times. And I'm curious if you've made any employee policy each changes during the pandemic. Yeah, look, Carol, I think it Fortunately for us, we we've always been focused on our purpose, which is around this idea of cultivating a better world through food with integrity. And we've got some clear cultural values, um, you know around basically authenticity lives here, the movement is real, um, you know, teach and taste Chipotle, and then the line

is the moment of truth. And the reason why these values are really important is we've used them to guide a lot of our decisions. We believe our purpose and our values drive our culture. It's why people love to work at Chipotle. And we've been consistent, i think in all our decision making against our purpose and our values, and I think it's given a lot of our employees

a sense of pride. Um. They love the fact that, you know, regardless of how hard um the decision is, we want to do the right thing for our communities, moving our purpose forward and obviously our employees. So you know, we were fortunate we already had a lot of things in practice from a wellness standpoint, and you know, paid sick leave and UH a lot of employee programs around healthcare,

mental wellness. UM you know, I'm sorry, mental health benefits that were available for not just the employee but their families. So we're trying to surround people with all the right things and those have been even more important in these challenging times. And you know, we've dialed up our communication. I'll tell you the other thing that has really been powerful is, UM, we have really worked hard to communicate with every single employee at Tripoli, all ninety plus thousand

of them. UM. You know, we're doing zooms and web calls and telephone calls. I just want to keep them up to date with the most um, you know, up to date information. And the more they know, the more they can feel confident that we're making the right decisions

and they're working in a safe environment. UM. I've had the pleasure of making some day trips visiting rest fronts, and I can tell you it really gets you pumped up because our employees are so grateful, um to be working and to be a part of Chipotle and making a difference in their communities and moving our company and culture forward. Well. And I'm guessing you're visiting a lot more workers because you guys have been on a significant hiring push back into Loe. You talked about hiring about

ten thousand workers. So how has that push gone so far? Where are you in that process? Yeah, it's been you know, we're very fortunate. People have been really excited to join Chipotle, and the applications have been, uh, you know, frankly, really exciting to see did you get something like seven hundred Didn't you get something like seven hundred thousand applications or something? It was crazy. You know, I don't remember what the numbers,

but I wouldn't be surprised if that's close to right. Um, you know, because we have had you know, I saw we just had a job for one of our digital opportunities open up, and for just this one position, we had well over you know, I think three or four hundred applications, which is really amazing. UM. And you know, now you've times that out across ten thousand opportunities, from you know, crew members all the way up to jobs

that are support centers. And we've been very fortunate to attract really great people and we've been able to retain really great people. So we're we're feeling really fortunate with where we are, with the people we have and the people that are drawn to to work at you Polly and apply and one of you part of what we're doing.

Are you seeing any tightness in the labor market? And I'm curious if you anticipate needing even more workers, uh, and if that's going to potentially you know, if there's tightness in the workforce also lately to kind of higher wages here. Yeah, No, you know, we're not seeing um an issue with applicant flow. You know, we're continue to see great access to great talent um and you know, I think one of the things why people are really drawn to fully is we have a tremendous growth story.

So it's all is fun to be a part of a company that when you think about I'm joining today and this company, could you know, triple in revenue over the next decade, you know, double store account, you know, go from twenty seven hundred restaurants to five six thousand restaurants. Um. You know, they're really excited about all the growth right

our our thing about our digital business. We we went from you know, a couple hundred million dollars to this year will be about like two point four billion dollars worth of digital business, and people love to be a part of companies that have growth. And then what really attracts them here is they feel like it's very much aligned with their personal values. So they love the growth, they love the values, and they're excited to be a

part of what our future is. And uh, you know, I keep telling our team, let's just make sure we're hiring the best possible people, but let's also make sure we're hiring the best possible people that really believe in our purpose and our values. And that's where I think we really strike gold. Why do you think Chipotle has been so successful boosting sales and it's digital delivery and delivery business. You guys have just done really well. As you talked about some of the numbers and some of

the growth, it's pretty impressive. Why do you think it's worked so well? You know, I think we have been very focused on keeping the digital execution really simple and mirroring the same experience you get when you come into our restaurants. So you know, we've tried very hard to give you a digital experience that frankly is almost identical too as if you were in our restaurant, moving down the line, picking out you know, how you want to make your bowl or burrito, and you know, we've stayed

very committed to keeping it simple. You know, over and over again what I hear people say is, wow, I love your app. It's so easy to use, and then it's so easy to actually get the food when it's time to pick it up. So um, you know, just the aspect of keeping it very simple, really convenient. And then you know this has always been at the corruptible.

They were really fast and we're tremendous values. So we've just given people another access mode to get great culinary, great ingredients, done exactly how they want it, and uh, you know, at a tremendous value. So it's it's working out really well because if you want to order ahead, grab it and go. If you need it delivered, we can deliver it. If you want to run in, move down the line and have that eye to eye, you know, contact, so you can get the brito exactly the way you

want it. Um, we have all these avenues available for you, and but at the core of it is great ingredients, great culinary and then you end up with just delicious burritos. And bowls. So you know, at the end of the day, we are still a restaurant company that is committed to changing food culture. Hey, Bron, you know back in March you did say to me that you thought digital could be about of your business and be a multibillion dollar

business over the next three to five years. That still feel about real and likely or even more perhaps Well well, yeah, you know, and you know, unfortunately Carol, that was before it became eight percent of our business um for a time. But you know you probably saw on our most recent earnings report we're in the at forty range and uh, you know, obviously that will continue to fluctuate as the

dining rooms reopen. But I definitely think our digital business is going to stay around as our dining room business comes back, so it'll stay among that level you think. I think there's a real possibility that's where it could stick. Yeah, so listen. One thing I got to ask you, Brian is and I know, um all the CEO as we talked to, they don't have a ton of visibility at this point. So, UM, I do wonder what metrics do

you look at? Is it considered data points? Is it you know, the app the digital what are you looking at to get an idea of how healthy the consumer is UM and maybe what the rest of looks like at this point. Yeah, you're exactly right, Carol, there's a lot of uncertainty. I'm sure if you talk to a lot of my peers that we could rattle off the list of all the uncertainties in front of us. What we've decided to really stay focused on is, Okay, what

can what are the things we can control? And the things we can control is making sure that we have a really safe environment for employees to work in, a safe environment that our customers believe in and trust. UM. We know if we do those two things, uh, we continue to get people's trust and then ultimately their business around their meal occasions. And so we continue to really monitor how we as a brand are doing on the things that we can control. You know, are we doing

a good job of communicating the safety. Are we're doing a good job of communicating why you can feel great about these ingredients, Why you can feel great about getting that burdover bowl from Chipotle? UM? And then obviously we're paying attention to a lot of the macros to understand the health of the consumer um and you know, obviously, depending on where you are in the country, we're seeing

a lot of different things. But you know, for the most part, customers and consumers are still wanting to order food out, whether um that's from you know, uh, their local restaurant or somebody like a Chipotle. Um. You know, we're definitely seeing them fatigue a little bit on going to the grocery store, moating up and cooking all the time. That was Chipotle CEO Brian Nicol. And that wraps up the first hour of our special holiday weekend edition of

Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Carol Masser. More in our next hour, including the president of the Rockefeller Foundation on forging a resilient economy, plus another industry that's been hit hard by the pandemic. We're talking about cruise lines. Carnival Corporation CEO on navigating the financial waves of lockdowns. Also a deep dive into the importance of mental well being. We'll hear from the CEO of Verizon Business and actress

Elissa Milano opening up that her struggles with anxiety. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser. From Bloomberg Radio. Hi, I'm Carol Masser. Plenty ahead in this hour of our special holiday weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week. Some of the highlights from our many conversations in including Carnival Corporation CEO Arnold Donald on a very difficult time for his company. Also a topic we continue to talk about, and that is the importance of mental

well being during the crisis. We catch up on that with the CEO of Verizon Business and actress Elissa Milano on her struggles with anxiety and ways to reverse stigma around mental health. We begin this hour with Dr Rajiv Shah, president of the Rockefeller Foundation, on forging a resilient economy. He talked with us at the Bloomberg Sustainable Business Summit on how to work on several big problems at once.

We're talking about the pandemic and climate change. It's a tall order, and less to say, he and his team were busier than ever. This year has been like no other. The Rockfeller Foundation has been around for a hundred and seven years and played a role in the pandemic of nineteen eighteen. So maybe I can't say like no other ever, but certainly in recent times. This has been an extraordinarily

tragic year. And it's tragic because basically, this crisis UH COVID nineteen, which is fundamentally a public health crisis, has exposed and exacerbated the deep inequities in the society in the United States and frankly around the world. I mean, we've seen that over and over and over again. Minority communities in the US and around the world are hit so much harder by COVID in terms of morbidity, mortality,

death rates, and the like. And we know that economically, the consequences for those at the very top have been you know, manageable. In fact, America's billionaires have probably gained almost a trillion dollars of wealth in the digital acceleration

that has been unlocked through this period of time. But most Americans and working families are just getting crushed with twenty million unemployment claims on a regular basis, and and with the fact that you know, I don't know six of American households more than half went into this crisis before. Are they anyone ever tested positive without the ability to muster four dollars to deal with an emergency? And this has been a critical emergency that has exposed how extraordinarily

unstable our society is when it becomes so inequitable. So how do we because what I'm finding is we're all talking about Okay, we know the inequities that are out there, they've been there for a long time, but they've been

really pronounced uh here. So how do we make sure that when we look back five years from now, ten years from now, we make sure that we have set the course to put us, the world, and its citizens on a better course that we don't look back and say we missed an opportunity to help the climate, to

help individuals, to make the world more prosperous. Well, you know, the good news is there's so many times in our history where we have said we're going to reimagine a different future and work to make that happen, And we absolutely have to do that right now. We cannot recover to the status quo or recover to what happened before

COVID nineteen hit our country and our planet. The reality is that was just too fragile and too inequitable of a society on a freight train towards disastrous climate change outcomes. So we we've been asking ourselves, how can you reimagine

the future. We can actually imagine a future where two to three billion people who are fundamentally left behind by globalization are brought into a global economy based on big investments in renewable electrification and inclusive growth in country after country, in wealthy nations. We're making those kinds of investments right now. We have to do it smartly, otherwise we're going to waste this once in a lifetime opportunity to put twenty to thirty of GDP back into the economy in the

form of economic stimulus. But the opportunity is there to re envision the future and and build back to a condition that's both more inclusive and fundamentally more sustainable. Well, and you know, talk to us about some of the work that you guys are doing, because you, from what I understand, you are making specifically a commitment when it

comes to fossil fuels. Yeah, well, we you know, I know many of the participants in this conference are investors and uh and business leaders, and we, like other partners within the Rockefeller ecosystem, are making a commitment to effectively remove our investments in fossil fuels and over time, we manage an endowment about four and a half billion dollars.

Over time, we've brought down our fossil fuel exposure to something very very small, and we will divest of indirect of direct investments in in fossil fuels because it's not consistent with the future we imagine in the future. We're working so hard to achieve on behalf of a sustainable planet.

In doing so, we actually are following the footsteps of our system organization, the Rockfeller Brothers Fund, and so many other courageous members of the Rockefeller family that have come out publicly as as heirs of the traditional standard oil fortune um and made the point that society needs to rethink growth, capitalism, and sustainability for the future. So we're

proud to follow in those footsteps. You know, it's interesting we talked so much up Bloomberg about you know, you can really make a difference by what you do with your money, how you spend it as an individual, as a corporation, the supply chaine you work with as an investor,

what you invest in. We know e s G has really taken off this year specifically, so talk to me too about the role of investors in kind of this plan that you envision, uh, this mission that you are setting out that where we can look at the pandemic, look at the climate, look at the energy poverty that the world a big bulk of our world is dealing with. How we can make it better, improve those three pillars. But what's the role of investors in all of this?

What's the role of leaders in all of this? Well, leadership is where this all starts, and investors just have to be more have to own the leadership mantle much more significantly. There's one thing we've seen is you simply cannot count on public sector leadership from government to solve

all of our problems. And so you know, I would encourage all the investors here to just make the simple pledge that you'll look at your portfolio and demand um and demand that you're proud of everything you're investing in from the perspective of its overall impact on society. That's ultimately what E s G investing is all about, and showed us so much can be accomplished when we focus collectively on solving some of the world's biggest issues. That

was Dr rajiv Shaw, president of the Rockefeller Foundation. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week coming up, lots of struggles for cruise lines in how Carnival has stayed afloat amid the new world Order. This is Bloomberg. This is blue Burg Business Week with Carol Messier from Bloomberg Radio. Safe to say, one of the hardest hit industries by the coronavirus is the cruise industry. Carnival, the world's largest cruise group,

raised billions in the debt market, also sold assets. Now here's my conversation from late summer with Arnold Donald, Carnival Corporation President and CEO, from the company's headquarters in Miami, where we began with talking about juggling many key stakeholders

all at once. Our primary responsibilities and therefore our top priority is always compliance, environmental protection and the health, safety and well being of our guests, of the people in the place as we go, and of course our Carnival family, our shipboard and short side personnel. So you know, the interests of public health is always in the forefront for us.

And how do we get people back on ships when there's some social gathering and society has developed the compensating measures that is comfortable with that we have effectively mitigated the spread of COVID nineteen and then we'll be able to cruise again. And there are a lot of people, as you know, Carrol, who are ready to cruise right now.

And in fact we're looking at starting up in Europe where the spread has been mitigated substantially, in places like Germany and Italy, and we're looking at starting up in September there and a few um cruise lines have but there's a lot of pin up demand, you know, for travel in general, and especially for cruise. Well, and when I wonder, Arnold, though, can you kind of drill down a little bit what are some of the specific protocols that you might put in place to get ships safely

back at sea. I've been reading, you know, about different folks and what they might be considering different cruise lines. They're talking about no buffets, constant um temperature checks, constant testing, maybe no excursions. What specific protocols will you be putting in place? Well, again, as you well know, we we have a lot of measures in place already on cruise that often short side destinations don't already have, but didn't have prior to COVID nineteen. We do medical screens, were

already doing temperature checks in many cases. UM, we had hand sanitized us throughout the ship and signs all over about washing your hands because we've had to deal with viruses and the over seven hundred parts and destinations we go to annually for many years now. Of course, CORVID nineteen is especially unique because the whole world is shut down, and because of that, there's still a lot of learning around COVID nineteen. As you know from all the scientists,

there's still a lining around epidemiology. They're lying around testing, they're lying around the role of testing. The one thing everybody right now is aligned on, though, is that you know, good personal care in terms of wearing a mask, washing your hands. I'm using hand sanitizers, you know, physical distancing at appropriate times, but wearing a mask is a great way to mitigate the spread. So for the time being, any cruises that will happen will certainly incorporate some physical

distancing and you know, wearing masks. And of course what we already had was the the hand sanitizers ECCERAA. Beyond that, UM, there's a plethora of possibilities, but it depends on the destination depends on the level of community spread in that destination, etcetera. So there could be various testing protocols. I mean, that's a possibility for the US. It's premature. You know, we're

not ready to sail here yet. Obviously the community spread is still pretty vibrant here in the US, and when when out of position to sail here, And we're walking cautiously in the other places too, because our primary interests is to stand what everyone else in mitigating the spread of COVID nineteen. But I did read your your Custer Cruise is safety protocols and you talked about three tests for crew members before boarding. UM you also talked about,

of course social distancing, new filters. UM entertainment will have more shows on during the day so that they're smaller groups. And then also no self service restaurants, so no buffets, which for many of you go on a cruise, they're pretty used to it. So there are some changes coming. Yeah. Absolutely for the ones that are going to sail now, we have to be ready. Just like hotels today, any hotel that's open the day has to deal with the

current situation and the limited knowledge there is. And so for Costa. We are deploying a number of testing protocols. Obviously for our crew, we have not only testing but quarantine except because it's really important for us to have the clue crew UM, you know, safe from the beginning, and then to keep them safe. And obviously UM, once we get guests on board, we'll have protocols on board for them. I do wonder how you do it safely.

I mean, Arnold, you know this industry better than everyone, uh and better than most in terms of lay personnel. But I wonder how you do it safely because there have been some smaller cruise operations that have come out of Europe, come out of Alaska, Tahiti, UM, and I believe there are less at least ten crew members aboard UM your I eat a cruise ships out of Germany that contacted the virus ahead of you getting ready to kind of get back to the seas um that was

in August. So I just wonder how do you do this safely when even when some small cruise operations are starting to go back out on the water and still having problems with the virus, and people are contacting the virus. Carol, think those two stages one as you want to reduce the risk of having um the COVID nineteen come on

board from shore. So that's the first thing. So you test UM, and you monitor, and you quarantine in the case of the crew, So the ones you mentioned on Naida, you know, those crew members were tested before they left their home country, and then they were tested again once

they arrived in Germany and we got some positives. They were then retested again and a couple of in several of those cases, the individuals got a double negative test after that, which meant they had a false positive, and then the others were obviously isolated in quarantine, and so the risk of them spreading it on board with zero, because we wouldn't have them sail. Okay. Now, once you're at that level, the next question is what else are you're doing to mitigate spread? And that's why all the

other practices on board. Any event you do get someone on board who has COVID nineteen, if it's in society, UM, if it's out there in general, chances are you eventually will have someone on board the ship that will have it.

And so the trick then, of course, is to make certain that you are able to quickly identify that you can isolate the person and that during the time they were exposed there was plenty of mitigation of risk protocols in place, so the probability of spread has been greatly reduced. And that's where you know, wearing masks, physical distancing, washing your hands, um using a hand stand, the size, et cetera,

all come into play. They do also wonder, you know, what are your plans for passengers and crew members who do get sick in the future. You know, you know the horror stories of ships that were you know, basically lost at sea they couldn't find a homeport. You I know and your team have spent you know, a long time repay trading, you know, your crew members back home. So what do you do? Will there be a way

to airlift passengers off ships? What will you do? We had to repay trade over eighty thousand crew members and it took us quite a while with borders closed and airlines shut down, et cetera. So it took us several months to effectively do that, but we were eventually able to do it. In regards to now, you know that was before now there's enough understanding we and not go to a destination where we did not have a plan

already any event that there was COVID on board. We're not going to tie up thousands of people off of one positive COVID case or a couple of positive COVID cases. You know, we would have the protocols in place to ensure one that the individual is taken care of whoever has it, that we can get them the care they need um and then number two that everyone else uh is on effect. That you know, we would have some form of contact tracing on our boards, so we know

who we're the most exposed people. But we have to have those protocols for each destination. We go to seven hundred ports and destinations around the world, so they're all not going to have these zact same protocols. Putting in place new measures just one part of that puzzle. That's Carnival CEO Arnold Donald speaking with me before the rollout

of vaccines. You can catch that full conversation on our Bloomberg Business Week podcast feed coming up for Rising Business CEO Tammy Irwin of reducing the mental toll of the pandemic on her employees. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg

Business Week. With Garrol Massier from Bloomberg Radio. This week especial holiday weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week highlighting some of our favorite conversations from some of the standouts with big thinkers, and that included one that talked about one of the big issues of the pandemic, which as we know, took of course a physical toll on many people, but also a mental one. And I spoke with Rising Business CEO Tammy Irwin at the Bloomberg Breakaway CEO Summit about this.

Her team, though, started dealing with the impacts of the COVID nineteen crisis in early January. I think about where we are, almost a year into this crisis. What started as a I think a physical health crisis, I think is increasingly becoming a mental health crisis for all of us as we think about kind of the duration of the COVID crisis and the uncertainty of how long it continues for um. I think about when it first started

in the first half of the year. I think we all thought, if we just get to summer, it will be over. And then I think we thought, we can get through summer and we can get to school, to school, your kids will go back to school and now we're like, whoa, what when does it end? And we've had to really focus our efforts on how do we create a sense of hope, how do we acknowledge the anxiety and stress that people are feeling, and then how do we try to build an environment that allows our employees to do

what they do so well, which is great resiliency. And I'd be clear on what successful looks like so that they can lean in and feel confident that what they're doing is making a difference in defining the purpose of what they do every day. So, Terry, how do you do that? Okay? So mental wellness? I know when you and I talked last week, we live in a society as evolved as we are that it's still uncomfortable for

a lot of people to say. It's easy for me to say I've got to go to the doctor, I've got something physically wrong, But when there's something in my head that's not quite right, it's hard for us to admit. As a society, how do you do especially when we can't even talk face to face, We've got to do it virtually. So do you keep tabs on your teams that some of the individuals are maybe having a tough time. Yeah, listen, I think it takes a series of things to really

open up that dialogue and conversation. You're right, it's not a conversation we want to have an open We tend to whisper like, oh, I think somebody is having a hard time. I think historically that's how we've dealt with it. And I think that what we're seeing is that we really have to put mental illness, stress, anxiety, suicide, addiction, all of those things into the middle of the table

and realize that they impact and affect everybody. And the way that we collectively show up in behalf of how we lift each other up and acknowledge and recognize the stress, care for it, help people get the resources that they need to be successful has been really important. We've actually in our series of communication that we call up to Speed, which is how we communicate broadly to our employees around the world, and we open it up quite frankly, uh

to one who wants to participate. But we've done a lot of highlighting of some of the challenges around mental health, around suicide, around domestic violence, around child abuse, around addiction to really say these are real, and they're happening in increasing odds because of what we've all been through in the last year. And here are the resources that are available to you and to your family into the community

in which we live. And I think that's so important that we put a spotlight on it and make it okay to talk about. So you know too, though, Like I work for a great company too, and there's tons of resources. And there's one thing about knowing that there's an array of resources is another thing of making sure people kind of reach out and and tap into it.

So I'm curious whether it's through your line managers, how are you making where somebody says you seem like you're having a tough time, I want you to, you know, kind of either push them and help them in terms of finding what they need. How do you make sure basically that people who are having a tough time like tap into the array of resources that you guys are

offering up. Yeah, I think that's a very fair question of how do you really make sure it's doing And I don't know, I don't know that you always know that it's happening, But I can tell you that some of the framework that we've created has said, we've done a quarterly pulse service. So we've asked our employees directly, how are you feeling, what more do you need from us as an employer to really deal with the crisis

that you're in. We've asked managers to then go through that feedback and work an action plan with their team more broadly and with people individually. We've also used our performance management cycler quarterly Cycle of Performance Manage to really touch in with employees and say, how are you feeling about your work environment? Thank you for inviting us into your home UH to work over the last six months,

because that's really what employees have done. We've found ways to celebrate the kids, the cats, and the dogs that are in the background of the zoom calls that we're all in. We've tried to ask parents to take some time to help educate their kids when they get up and get started in the morning. UH. And so we've really worked to try to create that one to one relationship, the team relationship, and then a broader framework of the

tools that are available. You only know that if you ask the question, and we've created a dialogue of uncomfortable conversations for the purpose of getting comfortable that our employers have what they need to really feel successful. Checking with colleagues and team members so important, so key during this time. That was Verising Business CEO Tammy Irwin. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Still to come. We're gonna stay in

the importance of maintaining mental wellness. We're gonna catch up with actress Alissa Milano who shares her own path to mental well being. That conversation still to come. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Massier from Bloomberg Radio. Our next guest is definitely someone you know. She has lived a lot of her life in the public eye. We're talking about actress Alissa Milano, No stranger by the way to mental dresses, something she has also publicly talked about.

We caught up with her about that. We also talked with her about getting COVID early on in the pandemic. She began our conversation describing the long term impact that the virus has had on her. It's interesting, um vascialates. Some days I feel back to normal, and other days it's like I have a recurrence of the acute symptoms. I was sick with the acute illness for five weeks in in March and April, UM, and I've just I

have not felt that to that to normal since then. Uh, some days I feel okay, but really it's just this like this, this incredible um exhaustion. It feels like I have no motivation to physically move my body. And I don't know if that is some sort of mental protection or if it's my body trying to regenerate or or what is happening. But I have shortness of breath, hard palpitations, my hair is still falling out, and I have this the worst part, I have this ringing in my ears

that is driving me bonkers. So um, yeah, it's it has not been great. And it's interesting because of of all my friends have quite a few friends that that we're sick. There's maybe one out of twelve that feels completely back to normal. The rest are just having these these long hauler symptoms and um. So you know, we find great comfort in each other knowing that that there are other people out there going through the same thing

um um. And that makes a really big difference. And I think that that makes a big difference in our mental health and in general, just to know that there are other people, UM, you know that go through similar things that then that we do well. This is why we're so grateful that you're talking with us and talking

about your own mental illness and talking about anxiety. And I want to take a few steps back because from what I understand just doing a little bit of research and watching some different things and some interviews you've done, you've dealt with anxiety for a long time. Is that fair? Oh? Yes, yes, but I don't know that I had labeled it as anxiety. But my earliest my earliest recollection and and everybody experiences

anxiety differently. For me, I get very UM, I get in a crisis mode that is very hard for me to break the pattern UM. And basically it gets to the point that my brain just thinks that's the way it's supposed to be functioning and fight flighter freeze UM. And I should also say, is when when when we were talking about UM issues that affect brain, UM, you know, we really prefer to talk about mental health, not mental illness. I think once we start calling it mental illness, UM,

that's when the stigma UM comes with that. And and also to try to sort of be conscious of of the phrases that we use UM as far as like I actually just did it, and I caught myself, you know that the rings in my ears was driving me bonkers. Like all of those things, all of those natural UM ways of describing things in the past, we sort of have to break out of, I think, in order to in order to break the stigma. But my earliest recollection

of being in crisis mode was UM. I lived in South Africa for three months in two thousand and it was, you know, only nine years after apartheid was abolished, and I volunteered in a township and a children's hospital, and

I was very strong while I was there. When I came home and had to assimilate like that part of me UM that volunteered and and dedicated my time to helping other people, and trying to to assimilate that with the person that lived in Beverly Hills and drove a BMW UM, I had a very hard time getting back and getting acclimated and UM and I went through about and at this time I didn't I didn't know, but I would say four or five months of complete and

total panic anxiety UM and for me I have generalized anxiety disordered that also and I also get panic attacks. So what that basically means is my base level of anxiety is almost in a panic attack mode, and then panic attacks are sort of on top of that. Um so yeah, So I remember, like I went to my general practitioner and I wasn't even in therapy, which, by the way, there was anyone that needed to be in therapy. It's it was a child after that that that survived, right, Um,

but was there anybody? Was there anybody around you? Was there anybody around you saying, you know, wait a minute, a lista, this isn't right. You know, you shouldn't feel this way chronically, and that would step in. I mean my mom was, well, I have a lot of the same characteric characteristics as my mother. She um, she suffers from anxiety. She also has dyslexia. UM, I have dyslexia as well. So she was, yes, she was encouraging me

to go. But I went to my general practitioner and they put me on a you know, a very generic antidepressant which made me, you know, gain fifteen pounds, and and that was like a whole other issue. And plus I was working week I was working on charm and so it was very hard to take that sort of break and sort and self care. I want to bring you forward a little bit because, from what I understand,

it really became, I guess, very debilitating. After the birth of your son, Milo, tell us a little bit about what happened. Right you came home and and I know there were some complications or some stress just before he was delivered. Tell us what happened. So. Um, So I was in labor for eighteen hours. I pushed for three and a half hours, and um, he came to us vias um c section. Um. The birth itself was in

the labor itself was very traumatic. UM. Not to get too graphic, but when a woman says she pushes for three hours, it is with the help of of nurses who are basically trying to manipulate the baby while it's still inside of your body to get the baby out. So for me, it felt incredibly invasive, um and traumatic.

And I think that it triggered my sexual assault trauma because I was sitting there and I was thinking, why is this feel like such a violation, Why is this does not and I don't think women talk about this UM at all, and you're not in control, and it's

it's right, you're not in control. It's it's a very tough situation, very heated, and there's lots of people coming in the room and plugging things in and like you know, I used to my mom used to joke like if they had a car in there, they'd be back in that end just to like so so that I think is what triggered my postpartum anxiety. And then I had, UM, I felt better, my milk came in, I felt better. I had this beautiful, little delicious baby, and UM, and

it was it was when he weaned. He weaned himself very suddenly without any like going down. My hormones were out of control, and UM, that's when my anxiety started to come back again. Was when my hormone level dripped dipped after he weaned, which was at ten months. So then I had experience where I gohead, no, no, no, I was gonna say, you eventually found yourself in the e R room right at you know, in the wee

hours of the morning. Yes, But before that, a part of this story that I think is almost the most important is I went into my O B G Y N um when this first started happening, and she looked at me and with a straight face, she said to me, well, it's a big life change. Go for a hike, try to find some self care time. And by the way, she said to me, you're thirty eight years old, so if you want to have another baby, we should probably

start thinking about that. And I remember so clearly, just being in tears, and I looked at her and I said, I'm not sure I want the baby that I have right now, and you're talking to me about another baby. So I felt completely like the the the health care that I was getting was totally not where it should have been. So I would just go to the emergency room. I would go to the emergency room every time I

felt like I couldn't deal well. And one of the times that you went, you actually had yourself committed right for three days, I did. I did I? Why did you do that? Why did you do that? Why did you know you needed to do that? So at the time, I was working on Mistresses, which was a show on ABC, and I was still functional and I was still able to learn my lines and show up for work. And the thing about mental health and when you're struggling with mental health uh issues is you can't see it right.

Someone looks completely together and healthy. And so I knew that the only way that I was going to get adequate care, that the production would understand that I needed to take time off only if and I think women feel this in every industry, if um, they could see the severity. And I didn't think that there is a way for them to see the severity without going into a facility for for three days. And I have to

tell you that experienced really saved my life. That's something she's working to change how society responds to mental challenges and reversing some of the stigma associated with it. That was active producer Uniseef, National Ambassador New York Times bestselling author A Lissim a lot not at the Bloomberg Equality Summit. And that wraps up the weekend edition of Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. Thanks so much for joining us.

I'm Carol Masser. Be sure to tune into our daily radio show Monday through Friday starting at two pm Wall Street Time. Be sure also to check out our Bloomberg Business Week podcast wherever you get your podcasts, and that's where you'll find our Bloomberg Business Week extra. This week, it's with Josh Jacob's, co founder and CEO of Speakeasy Company. It's a digital business for those looking to sell alcohol and merchandise online. And don't forget we're also on YouTube.

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