Bloomberg Businessweek Weekend - April 26th, 2024

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This is Bloomberg business Week inside from the reporters and editors who bring you America's most trusted business magazine, plus global business, finance and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio.

Hi, everyone, Welcome to the Bloomberg Business Week Weekend Podcast. It was a big week for the megacap tech names. You know, some of those magnificent seven stocks, four of which reported earnings. Tesla, Meta, Microsoft, and Alphabet all reporting, and then next week it will be Amazon's turn, among a few others. On that, we talked to the author of The Everything War about the company's quest to own the world and remake corporate power.

In other earnings news, shares of Mattel rallied following its quarterly update. I got a couple words for you, Hot wheels, Yes, Mattel CEO E Noon Cries is back with us.

Barbie Movie Take two. Plus a little more serious front escalating protests at college campuses over the Israel Hamas conflict. We get a global view from Francisco Veloso. He's the dean of INCIAD Business school.

He weighs in two on the impact of AI on today's MBA and later on in the next hour, rose and regenerative farming as one can only do in Provence, and what it's like to spend more than twenty five years as a CIA officer, working as an undercover spy all over the world and becoming a master of disguise. It's all in the new book.

In true face, we just say she was a kiss.

She was awesome.

All right, All of that to come. We begin with earnings. Yes, we are in the thick of it, having just wrapped up the busiest of weeks in the reporting quarter. The iconic toy company Mattel out with results this past week, narrowing its loss in the first quarter and beating analyst projections thanks to fast sales of its Hot Wheels cars and also lower costs.

Mattel's chairman and CEO, Enon Cries, stopping by to talk about the business and the outlook.

We are off to a good start of the year with significant growth, margin expansion, and very strong improvement and free cash flow. With positive consumer demand and improving trends, we are executing on our one billion dollar share repurchase program and just bought one hundred million dollars of shares in the quarter, and looking ahead for the rest of the year, we expect to benefit from innovation across our toy portfolio, meaningful progress on our entertainment strategy, and greater

So really bringing.

Together the Mattel Playbook about brand purpose, consumer centric innovation, cultural relevance, and franchise mindset.

In terms of taking product and creating the success like you did with the Barbie movie, but how do you take the toys put it in a series you know what I mean, and that it translates into sales. How do you guys track it, how do you really see that impact?

This really goes back to how we now see the role that we play and how we think of people who buy our product not just as consumers, but as fans that have an emotional relationship with our brands, and

Well on that, on Barbie and on the movie were there was it a demand surprise in the quarter that Barbie didn't perform as well less than a year after the movie release. Was that bump seemed kind of limited in just the months following the the release at least a quartered in the most recent quarter.

Well, Barbie is such an incredible brand. The success of the movie is here to stay for a long period to come. It's not just about the quarter or about the year. It really is about years to come that will benefit from the halo of the movie and how the brand has extended its audience and fan base and really playing at a very high level across the world. Barbie is the number one doll property globally and continue to gain share in spite of comfortable sales to last year.

Well, no doubt about it. Like you think about these brands and how iconic and how long they have been around, I guess you know the question is right, like when it's out there culturally in our universe, great thing, Right, there's a lot of buzz people are always curious about. So how does that translate in a big way into selling more you know, Barbie's and other Mattel toys and

Absolutely, the opportunity is significant. And you know, Barbie is so much more than adult Barbie is a pop culture icon and what you saw in the movie is a showcase for how far Barbie can travel. Our business model is to continue to grow our IP driven toy business and at the same time expand our entertainment offering. So this is very symbiotic. We still see significant upset potential in our toy business and the opportunity is to now participate in other verticals that we expect will be a

You know, something we've talked about before, and I'm always curious about the people who are knocking on your door following the success of the Barbie movie and who are saying, wait, you know there's something we can do here, whether it is you know, you guys are already on Netflix. But I'm just curious from the content creation world, what the world has been like for you guys in terms of conversations and new opportunities. How that volume can you quantify how it's amped up?

Well, we absolutely saw an increase and a lot of excitement around the potential of our IP portfolio and the branch that we own, and we have fifteen movies right now in development that we've announced already with some of the most prolific creators in the world, and there are more projects that we're working on that we haven't announced yet.

Barbi two or does can Get a Movie? Can You Share?

Well? Without getting into the specific of the next Barbie movie or the potential of it, the opportunity for Mattel is to develop film franchises, and we've always said that this is our goal to develop brands that can have multiple touch points and engagements with fans. We look to continue to broaden our film offering and create exciting and cultural, societal, uh purpose driven movies that will excite in the light fans of all ages around the world.

I hope that's a yes, then, Carol, you're like the biggest Barbie movie fan. I've ever met a group of.

My older siblings. You know, I inherited their dolls. I have to say I love the movie. My daughter I went with and we loved it. We laughed, we cried. I've got a Barbie T shirt. I'm just gonna tell you, I'm all in.

I think I think in the future, I think you have to recuse yourself from this interview and interviewing back to the quarter. You know, the first quarter for toy manufacturers can be a challenging one. It comes just after Christmas and a lot of you know, the fourth quarter buying that happens and during the holiday season. But there was easter earlier this year then typically and at the end of March, and I'm wondering what you saw when it came to easter sales.

We do, we do believe that an earlier easter benefited the first quarter UH and we did say that it hasn't changed our expectation for the industry to decline in twenty twenty four, although at a lesser rare than twenty twenty three. And we believe that the trends will further improve and that the industry will return to growth and

Hey, what about Fisher Price, because there's some new products from Fisher Price coming out in the second quarter of the year, including the wooden toy line. Give us demand, the expectations, sales expectations for the line for the quarter and for the year, and for the brand.

We're very excited about our strategy for Fisher Price. We just announced a new leader that started this week. The Fisher Price is by far the largest segment of the infant toddler preschool category. We saw increase in consumer demanding the quarter. This year, Fisher Price will expand its core product, enter a new wood segment, expanding our Little People collect A line were broadening Thomas, We're relaunching Barney and extending license entertainment with Jurassic and Star Wars. So there's a

Why did that Why did that line take so long? Wooden toys have been how to come back for years?

You know, it takes time to develop quality product. We this is what we do.

UH.

This is our specialty, and we focus on on quality and innovation.

UH.

And this is another extension of the line.

UH.

And at the same time, we continue to exit lower margin segments to focus on on the on the profitability and UH and performance. We do expect Fisher Price to grow in the year. It's a value, it's a valid asset that's part of our portfolio, and we're very confident about the long term growth potential of this important brand that will be celebrating is celebrating it's ninety fourth anniversary this year.

I have to say, Fisher Price, we hit a bunch of Fisher Price. I had a bunch of I had the school, my brother at the airport.

We still have we have a bunch.

I'm going to tell you, you know, the office Little People Collector Series, Tim Stanovac, Yeah, oh yeah, I actually have them absolutely.

I mean this is another example. This is another example how brands transcend culture, transcend age to send demographics. You take a brand that is designed for infant and toddlers and it's and it becomes a film factor that is then is now a collector line and through partnership with the cultural and societal brands and icons that excite and delight to Carol. Right, it's great to hear.

I'm just telling you. We're waiting for the Bloomberg Business Week Radio TV version. I could see it. John Tucker, you'll be a part of that too. I think it would be very cool.

That's the same necessary to me, do you know, I don't know.

You never know, you never know.

Yeah, we always appreciate all the time you give us. And really fascinating to see what's been going on at this company and really iconic brands when you think about branding, Mattel really has so much of it, you know, And be well, good to talk to you. Enon Cries he's chairman and chief executive officer of Mattel, joining us from Elsagunda, California.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm Eastern Listen on Apple car.

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It's the largest online retailer in the world, touching seemingly every aspect of our lives, from retail, groceries, healthcare, entertainment, home security, logistics, and of course the cloud infrastructure that makes up the backbone of the Internet. We are, of course talking about Amazon, the nearly two true million dollar company that reports earnings this coming week.

Critics have also argued that Amazon is a monopoly, and last year the FTC filed a monopoly lawsuit against the retail giant and what may become one of the largest antitrust cases in the twenty first century.

Dana Mattioli is senior reporter at The Wall Street Journal. Her new book is called The Everything War, Amazon's ruthless quest to own the world and remake corporate power. It chronicles how Amazon got to where it is today to become one of the most feared companies in the world that I got to say, one of the most entrenched too, in our lives.

Yeah.

We began by discussing FTC Commissioner Lena Kahn's now famous paper that she wrote when she was a student, I'm back at Yale Law School, targeting none other than Amazon.

She was a relative unknown at the time, and law review articles typically have a small base of readers. This one goes viral and it's the first time that people start to piece the words Amazon and monopoly together in the same sentence. This was a darling of the company. People love their prime. They just associated it with fast

Well, we think about it, right, you go back to those barons, right, and who really just controlled industries, right, no competition, if you will, a standard oil and others. And it is interesting because, you know, Dana, I always think about Amazon what they started with, right and books, and it sounded so innocent and just kind of you know,

Yeah, So Lena's paper says that Amazon's almost become this utility. It's unavoidable, not just for consumers but for competitors. It's become like this highway to get to the Internet through aws, and sellers need to be on the website to sell

And as you note that there is a lawsuit monopoly lawsuit against against the company from the FTC, it may become one of the largest anti trust cases in the twenty first century. How do you envision that playing out.

It's a really interesting one. The FTC's lawsuit is about Amazon raising prices on consumers, which is much different from the article she first penned in twenty seventeen where she said that they were predatory pricing. But in the interim years, the case is that, you know, Amazon was building monopoly. They had to undercut the market to gain market share. Today they had that monopoly and they're able to charge

You know, is it akin to something like you know, a Walmart or one of the big box retailers and what they've done to small business kind of on mainstream. Is it kind of like akin to that in terms of what Amazon has done, Like you know, these smaller sellers have to be on their platform, but it's not easy for them.

Yeah.

If you look at the last few decades, Amazon's almost become like the nineteen nineties boogeyman that Walmart was to main street, but it's been replaced with Amazon and their effects not just on main street though in other industries as well.

Dan, one thing that caught my eye was a story recently about Amazon coming out and saying, Okay, we're now making this small announcement announcing unlimited grocery delivery for nine to ninety nine a month for Whole Foods.

On that news, we.

Saw shares of Instacart fall by more than seven percent. We also saw shares of Walmart fall by more than one point seven percent. Talk a little bit about how that relates to the idea in your book of a company amassing so much power that just a little announcement can cause destruction and shareholder value of competitors.

This is a very long running theme anytime Amazon even files the slightest patent or makes a higher from another sector, Wallstreet makes very vocal bets on Amazon's ability to just dominate ever new industries. There's a whole scene in the book where CBS is buying Etna because they're worried about Amazon getting into the healthcare space and taking their pharmacy

You know, I'm thinking about this and Amazon is what now roughly a one point eight trillion dollar market cap company. Apple's a lot bigger, It's about two point six trillion. You know, what is it about Amazon that just puts it in a whole different category in terms of some of the concerns that you cite in the book, And how was it allowed to kind of get here?

Well, I think it's pretty telling. All the major big tech companies are now the focus of antitrust lawsuits, and there's been this change in attitude toward them after the tech lash. I would say, while Apple is obviously ubiquitous too, like we all have iPhones, right, Amazon is unavoidable. Unavoidable in some respects. I mean, they underpin a lot of the technology we use. I took a lift here. They're

So even if you're.

Trying to avoid them, they've now had their tentacles in so many areas, and I think that you know, analysts are on high alerts to see where they're going next.

Is it harmful to consumers?

Though, the FTC says it is. That's the focus of the lawsuit. They say that Amazon has raised prices for consumers, not just on Amazon, but in the entire online economy because of their outsized power in online shopping. And in addition to the price is sixty percent of what is sold on Amazon is third party sellers. And there's some great ones out there, but there's also been instances of

No, it's interesting that you say that. There's something My husband and I were looking at and I'm like, I don't really know that company let's check it out, because there's a lot of listings my view. Don't judge me, but there's a lot of junk. I feel like that's also on Amazon, and I feel like I have these companies been checked out, in other words, their reliability. There's a lot not very much friction to just one perspective, one view by night sellers, and it's a game of

Right?

This is this big broader conversation with have with all of these social media companies and these companies that have so many users, right that you do wonder about the responsibility of trusting the platform when you're on it.

And that's the exact focus of the CPSC right now. They're looking into whether Amazon has shirked their responsibility in regulating their website and there could be a ruling on that.

And just because I'm going to get hate mail or called in by my boss's junk and I mean my junk questionable maybe sources and stuff, and as a buyer, yep, I can read reviews. But it's also like there is I think and understanding that you're on this website that you think a lot of it is trustworthy and that it's been vetted in some way.

I mean, my colleagues at the Wall Street Journal had a big story a few years ago about how some of these third party sellers were literally dumpster diving and reselling trash that wouldn't really happen.

So you walk into care, I think fair to say you're in the clear. You interviewed hundreds of people, Amazon executives, competitors, small businesses. Talk a little bit about what you found over the last few years in how Amazon got to this place.

Yeah, there are this behemoth of a company with unprecedented reach and access to data and leverage because of how big they are. So if you look at how they started, it was this online bookseller. No one even knew how successful it would be. I think it was a surprise to Jeff, including Jeff there's a scene in.

Theydn't make money for it. They weren't probably a.

Wall Street for a very long time, which helped them get to where they are. And there's a scene in the book that in the first few weeks after it launches, one of their employees is a.

Little bit nervous.

He says, what's going to happen to like Elliott Bay, this beloved Seattle bookstore, And Jeff's like, oh, we could never get rid of Elliott Bay. People love it too much. And to his credit, that's still there. But think of the compression of the rest of the bookstores in this country. It's been a very steep decline. And he wanted this to be a daily habit, and I'd say he more

You know, Apple, we talk a lot about that by having this closed network, it makes it kind of almost a seamless experience, and that is a benefit for consumers.

Right.

They argue that is there something that just by being big making it evil and so entrenched, or is it somewhere maybe on the other side, that it actually is something that's helpful, whether it's you know, getting healthcare to people who wouldn't normally get it, Like you know, I'm trying to understand what the flip side might be of building this massive infrastructure and massive network. Yeah, I think Devil's advocate a lot lot of big is necessarily bad.

I think it's how you use your bigness. And the book does get into some tactics that Amazon has used in predatory behavior. Is the patterns of this that have played out that have caused people to question how they're using their power.

You didn't interview Jeff Bezos, but he did answer questions based on representatives from Amazon. What was their pushback on the points that you raised in the book.

I think most of it was off the record, so I can't get into specifics, but I did a full fact check of the book. This was not, you know, a product of access journalism by any means, But I spoke to more than six hundred people. I spoke to seventeen current and former s team members. Those are the highest ranks of the company that had reported to Jeff or Anti Jasse and five current and former board members. So it's very well reported out.

And I had.

Hundreds of pages of internal documents and emails, and like.

What's the thing that's going to be kind of on your radar as this plays out?

The FTC lawsuit won't go to court until twenty twenty six, and you know, I think that could a while. Yeah, it's a while, and I'm curious to see what Amazon does in the interim. Funnily enough, a few weeks after the lawsuit was filed, there was an Amazon all hands meeting that I had a video to and their general counsel was asked his thoughts on the lawsuit and he got on stage and he was like a bit dismissive. He said, you know, haters are gonna hate, We're gonna

Taylor Swift is in everything. Yeah, she really is.

She's not on our playlist, not that latest Apple. I bet you can find her on other stuff. I like great, so much fun to have you. Dana Mattioli. She's senior reporter at The Wall Street Journal. Her new book, The Everything Wore, Amazon's ruthless quest to own the world to remake corporate power.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live each weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Apple Car Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just Say Alexa Play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

For the students, it was the ultimate betrayal. Their university had called in the cops to arrest them for what they believed was a righteous protest on campus, so wrote our Bloomberg News Higher Education Finance reporter Janet Lauren, after Columbia University here in New York called on the New York Police Department to intervene on pro Palestinian protests, resulting

I imagine it will continue into the coming weeks as well. It does come at a time when institutions across the US and around the world are dealing with a heightened political climate amid protests over Israel's war in Gaza. In the past week, we've seen standoffs and arrests at Harvard, Yale, University of Michigan, University of Texas, at Austin, University of California at Berkeley, among others.

Yeah, a lot.

It's one of the many challenges leaders of academic institutions are dealing with. Of course, others include the cost of education, also how AI and other technologies will change the way teachers teach and students learn, and of course preparing students for a rapidly changing world.

Francisco Veloso is dean of Inciat Business School in France, which is ranked one of the top business schools in the world. He joined US along with Bloomberg New senior editor Dimitra Cassanids to talk about the delicate balance between freedom of speech and student safety amid the current student protests.

I think the key element is creating a safe, secure and supported environment for the community and This has certainly been our focus at INSEADS and we have one of the most diverse student bodies that.

You can have.

I mean, as we usually say at INSEAD, in your classroom, everybody is a minority, and that's really what it is. I mean, no nationality or ethnicity has more than ten to fifteen percent of the population, and that has mean that we've worked very hard with our student body to create that environment for dialogue, for understanding, and our students are telling us that that is what's happening.

You know.

I have been personally meeting with students from different sensitivities, different nationalities and asking them what's happening on campus, and in our campus we're having a very positive and productive dialogue. That does not mean that there are no sometimes frictions and tensions, but not in a way that has led to difficulties. On the contrary, the community feels very supported and safe, and that's where we are.

Heydan, I want to take a step back and just explain how in SIAT is different because I think a lot of people who are listening perhaps are in the US and they're used to what happens in a two year MBA program here in the United States, but that's not what you get at in siat No.

So in Siad has been the pioneer school with a one year MBA and so we've started that many years ago. And we're also a very global school. So we started in France in Fontain Blow in the chateau the funt and Blow that's our heritage. But twenty years ago we opened a campus in Singapore or Asia campus, and ten years ago we opened the campus in Abu Dhabi and we have now a hub here in San Francisco. And so our school is extremely global. I mean a third

Well, and I wonder and Demitra, I want to bring you into this because I do think about or in a world where technology can bring people closer, students closer from all over the globe. And there's some interesting reporting that you guys have all done, our Bloomberg News has done about kind of the role of AI in all of this.

Yeah, I mean, I think AI is really transforming so much. And it's interesting because we went from this place of being terrified when we were first being exposed to some of the more out there applications of it over the

And the other.

Interesting point Singapore is a big campus of THEIRS and it's you know, it's almost as big and significant in size as what's happening in Fontainbleau. So that's a big direction for what's happening in B school education. Also, just to underscore that, Well.

It's interesting. I'm glad you brought that because it's like that balance right between physical plant but also what technology you can do. So come on in on that.

I think that this is quite critical, as you said, And it's interesting the point that Dinner just made because we did a recent survey with our alumni. We have you know, basically seventy thousand alums, and we asked them what do you think about AI you know, Jena I

So nice to hear the positive because we do right, we do get a lot of the horrors potentially exactly.

And that's what I was That's why I was mentioning because I think it is important to say that you know that in this survey, the majority felt actually very positive about the opportunities. I mean, business schools really have a very important role to play in this discussion on different dimensions. So first is of course to help us all understand what's going on. I mean, this is a

We have a very.

Successful program on Transforming your Business with AI, which is an example of bringing that to the executive population on a more immediate basis, but bringing that to the classroom, you know from the research, which is quite important so that people understand. The second one is make students feel comfortable about using these tools in the classroom as they is going through that learning journey. In all that mentions the university and the business schools as to be a safe.

Environment to experiment, to learn.

So if we're not bringing that to the way that we do things with the students, then we're not fulfilling our role as a leading business.

There's a place to make mistakes education and right kind of think through things exactly.

And the third thing that I think it's quite interesting is actually to think about how you can create new tools, new approach to education itself through these new tools, which is of course something very important because you know, in we see ourselves as at the cutting edge of business education, so we also it also means we have to think about how do we use that to create different tools, different approaches in education itself.

So can you talk a little bit about employment after INCI, because no question, that is the reason why people go to business school. It's to get jobs that earn more money after going to school and then also potentially the pivot and switch careers in addition to lifelong networking. But what are the what are the companies the types of companies that are recruiting at the business school right now?

Dimensions it is not that different, right, I mean, consulting is a very important part of the outlook for the students that join that join US financed as well, but not to the same extent as as the schools in London or New York. That's not not to be not.

To be surprised.

And tech is increasingly is increasingly important. The two aspects that that is also quite important for US is an increasing presence of entrepreneurship and the role of entrepreneurship. You know, Pitchbook last September did a very interesting ranking of you know, what were the schools globally that we're generating more startups over the long run and and basically in siacht came out for globally or m b A, which was very interesting.

I feel like a lot of the reporting is a lot more on the Mid East and the money and the innovation and spending that they are doing right now.

So for instance, I mean here in the US one of the sort of tensions and pressure points in the past year too, though on the jobs front has been contraction to some degree. I mean, those are still definitely the leading industries, but there's still a lot of fear and a lot of concern about what we see happening with the consulting jobs, with the finance jobs, certainly with the tech jobs. The layoffs have been continuing. It wasn't just the story for twenty twenty three, it was also

And it is also having some impact because of course there's less opportunities on these and so, which means that our students are finding also other opportunities as well, because we're seeing just less jobs available in those industries. So they're doing these two dimensions. One is the geographical element, so perhaps they're interested in consulting and they say, okay, if you want consulting, you may have a good opportunity in the Middle East, but not in London, for example,

Front of the interesting time to be leading a top business school, it's got to be fun. Dean Francisco Velos at the NCID Business School joining us here in studio along with our own Dimitri Cassaniti senior editor at Bloomberg News.

Thanks to book This is Bloomberg.

You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us live weekday afternoons from two to five pm. Easter Listen on Apple card Play and then brout Auto with a Bloomberg Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.

It's too hot, Too hot, too hot.

Shelter All right, everybody, Well, last week you might remember the IMF edging up global growth. Meantime, the Atlanta Fed GDP now Model estimate for real GDP growth in the US in the first quarter of twenty twenty fourth two point nine percent. That was on April sixteenth. It's up from two point eight percent before that. We're going to get another update from the Atlanta Fed on Wednesday. So we have seen the numbers. We've talked about this. They've been rotcheting them up higher.

Meantime, on this Earth Day, Bloomberg's Mark Gonglo reminds us that the only thing climate change is cooling is growth. Mark is Bloomberg opinion editor and columnist who covers climate change. He joins us this afternoon from New Jersey. Mark, the climate has gotten hotter continues to get hotter. But and we know this, We knew that. What was surprising to me about the study that you cited is that it's going to actually make global income nineteen percent lower by

I should Yes, global income lower by nineteen percent is definitely bad news. That amounts to about thirty eight trillion dollars a year by twenty forty nine. Obviously you're ramping up to that point, so you're losing trillions and trillions of dollars, and that is coming from just heat for the most part, extreme heat, variability in temperatures too, and variability in water, so that affects heat affects human health and productivity. Our brains don't work as well, we're not

Yeah, it's going to impact how people you know, around the globe, whether or not they've got money to spend right, which is certainly creates velocity, economic velocity and growth within the economy. Having said that, this study, as you note, Mark and your piece, is that it's a little bit more. I mean, the cost is more than past research and

Yeah, in fact, it's a lot more. There was a study, a famous study about five years ago suggested it would be more like twenty percent off of global GDP by twenty one hundred. This study says, if we don't start cooling the planet down, or if we don't stop making the problem worse, we could have a sixty percent hit to a global income by twenty one hundred, So you're talking magnitudes worse. They say that they have new models that they're looking at that incorporate the fact that some

Of course.

One is that we are going to lose a lot more by not doing anything about climate change than we are going to lose by doing something about it. So Bnaf Bloomberg suggest it could cost two hundred trillion dollars by the middle of this century to mitigate climate change.

Two hundred trillion.

Dollars is kind of a lot of money, but it's you spend that at about six years if you're losing thirty eight trillion dollars a year, So it's an investment to avoid many many more trillions of losses. And the second key thing is that much of this economic impact is landing on the people who deserve it the least, and so developing Africa, South Asia, South America, these places are going to see GDP hits of maybe thirty to thirty three percent by mid century, again according to this study.

Explain because there's something you go into in the story about this isn't degrowth and I don't know that it's a term that I feel like I've been using much when it comes to climate change, which is why we always love reading your columns. But you note that what fossil fuels are doing to the world isn't quite degrowth. Growth is what when you kind of slow down output to reduce the impact on environment. This isn't what you're.

Talking about, No, not exactly. At first, Plush, it kind of seems like that. And so there are climate activists who say, you know, we need to stop growing the economy so much, and so that would involve cutting growth. And I guess an example of this could be when COVID hit in twenty twenty you saw growth just fall off the table and all of a sudden, nature was healing and emissions weren't as bad. And people said, hey, if we just did this all the time, we'd save

I wonder Mark how a message like this resonates in your opinion, because Carol and I talk about this all the time walking into work when the skies are full of smoke from wildfires. You know, thousands of miles away. That is something there's something visceral about that. You know, you're basement because of becoming unusable because three or four times a year the weather is so extreme that it floods. You know, there's something that really hits you about that.

It's really difficult because you're talking about future generations, and we seem to have a real hard time thinking about, well, you know, my grandchildren are going to suffer from this. And then also we have a really hard time putting numbers like thirty eight trillion dollars a year into context. It's like, okay, thirty eight trillion dollars a year, or you read the headlines about well, all the Arctic ice is melting and oceans are hotter than they've ever been.

I don't care.

But people are losing money in Florida as we speak, and in California because they can't get their homes insured. And the next wildfire season, the next hurricane season, the next floods that come, there are going to be a lot of people who are going to be surprised to find that they're under insured and so and they're going to have They're going to take a huge financial and

Mark to that point. There's another story on the Bloomberg and it talks about the economic impact of climate change, specifically on global tourism, broken down by some of the top countries that rely on tourism for growth. But the whole idea is in this story. It says, by the end of the century residents of northern countries will generally see sunny spring like bomb a pair a peer, excuse me,

Sure, and even in those places, so even in the places that will bear less of the brond, there still is an impact. There's an economic impact. And in some of those countries you're talking about where there will be sunnier days, but maybe your skiing industry doesn't get much snow, and so you lose a lot of tourism that way. And then you have climate refugees leaving the places that are hit a lot to try to go to the nicer places. And then you have a whole political issue.

Yeah, changing after days though, like changing interesting, tough, but as you always say, maybe not too late. That always gives me hope. Mark Gungloff, thank you so much, editor at Bloomberg Opinion. Joining us there in New York City. Check out his column. You can find it on the Bloomberg at also at Bloomberg dot com slash Opinion.

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Today is there a day?

And an important thing to think about is where on Earth all of our food comes from?

Yeah, And when it comes to farming in the US, Well, farms are becoming fewer and farther between the number of farms in the US following by more than one hundred and forty thousand between twenty seventeen and twenty twenty two, and the number of farm acres fell by twenty million over that same period of time. This is according to USDA data cited by the American Farm Bureau of Federation as an advocacy group that represents farmers and ranchers but generally on the decline.

Well, Yeah, and the group argues Carol that there are too many challenges that just make it unsustainable for family farms to stay in business these days. That's where Elmer Mayer comes in. He's the co founder and CEO of neatly If. It's working on technology that uses sensors, AI and robotics to get farmers a granular view of their cultivation environment.

The idea is that.

Increasing cop yields and reducing costs, of course, helps with the growing environment. Allan joins us from Santa Cruz, California. Good to have you back on the program, Almar, how are you good.

Thank you so much for having me.

Yeah.

Thanks, we'll be back.

Yeah, thanks for joining us again. Give us an update on where exactly you are with this spider technology and explain once again for audience exactly how it helped farmers.

Yeah, happy to do so.

It's basically a football stadium camera for greenhouses or indoor growing environments. It's like a cable based system which, like a football stadium camera, basically moves around they cannot be and floats up off the crop and monitors the crop. It collects a lot of different data like temperature, HU made it DC or two. It takes images to understand what's going on with each plant and analyzes it.

So it's basically alleviates that.

Burn for cultivators to walk the crop every day and check out every plant, which is tedious and like not scalable.

Is it possible in your mind ever to use this in fields outside and outside of greenhouses?

Oh, definitely.

The way how we look at it is that Neatly is based on two pillars. One is the automation the data collection, like the robotic side of things that we developed the neative spider to harvest the data.

But then the other part is all the data analytics.

Like the processing of the data AI which picks up on bland health, on pests, on crop properties, and that's sygnostic to where the data comes from. So we could easily either mount four pillars outside of a vineyard and have a spider collected data, or mount the same sensor box onto our drone and collect the data in an open field.

Talk to us a little bit about all of the data that you have been collecting, the quantity and kind of the diversity of that data. That helps you help your clients, right, so they.

The way how we looked at it originally was like we try to understand how cultivators operate their environment their fields, like the greenhouses, and they heavily rely on the visual feed They obviously monitor the environmentals, they try to understand what's going on in the soil and the substrate, but then they really rely on looking at the plant, assessing what's going on, reading that language of their plants and like doing that, but like moving around the plant, walking

Be, is just a new domain and new dimension which we can offer to the cultivators.

We count every yellow leaf, for example, the count every necrotic leaf, every folded leaf, the pests. We count every flower of flower size, how it evolves throughout the growth cycle. So now all of a sudden you have a direct feedback loop to whatever you do in the field, whatever happens, and you can say like, oh, my crop has ten percent more yellowing today. It has five percent less folding and compare crops across different growth cycle.

That's unique.

It's kind of like the ultimate drome or spy camera. It'd be quite fair. And it reminds me of if you've ever gone to a sports game or I think about we're in the US Open covering it tennis, and it's that camera that comes down and zooms and it's on these cables and it catches people you know, that are watching in the stands. So it's really kind of interesting in terms of the technology. And having said that, you guys have been up and running for about I

Yeah, it has been an amazing journey so far. You've started about four years ago. It took us like half a year nine months to come up with the idea of the spider and then we executed and that idea be quickly installed, first prototypes and then.

Iterated improved and sure that it works reliably.

It collects the data which we need and we have been running these systems now for over two years in the field, and last summer we then decided to ramp up production to really like accelerate and like produce more and more of the systems because we realized that the customers really love it and there's interest. And since the beginning of the year we have tripled installations and we have a backlock of orders now until June, which is very exciting.

But it really seems like.

A new concept of what you get from in terms of data from the field. But once customers see that with their own field, it's just a very sticky product, they quickly understand the value and the power of this and they want more.

How do you scale this? It's I mean, I've a hard time imagining the salesforce that's required to go out and sell this product across the US and across the world to farms.

It's not an easy thing.

And I'm curious how much it costs because I'm thinking about smaller independent farmers which are increasingly whether it's organic or regenerative farming, which we've been doing a lot on in the last couple of weeks, you know, whether or not it's affordable.

Right, So the scaling itself right now, it's a lot about like going to trade shows, presenting a system, talking to potential customers, and the world of mouth by customers themselves where we get a lot of incoming demand. They obviously like installing the systems. Right now, it's our team which still goes to the different places install the first system, but it's really designed in a way where the customers

Yeah, cost wise, it's a very interesting.

We try to alleviate that initial hurdle to kind of say like everyone can just try it out, you know, so you can rent the hardware for like three hundred dollars a month. You basically rent the hardware as long as you want at the point where you want to commit to it, you just purchase it. It's a couple of thousand dollars to purchase the hardware and then you get a discount, so it's really worthwhile basically that investment.

But we didn't want have anyone.

To like really, you know, think long about before trying it out, because it's really this game change when you see your own data gathered by the device.

One thing I'm thinking, you see, you know, forward to be kind of a game changer on the industry perhaps in terms of methods. Is the industrial farmers getting involved? Are any of them interested? Are they biting and signing up for the systems?

Definitely, they love it, especially the ones which have multiple facilities across different states or countries. They always struggle that they have, you know, they're experts which didn't have to send around. They fly around, visit each facility and assess what's going on with our system. They can provide way better feedback remotely, they can guide the teams underground.

They can compare.

Data across different facilities, which obviously allows them to like standardize it more and become more consistent. So we see a lot of very very largest excitement from exactly bigger industrial cultivators.

Really appreciate you joining us this afternoon with an update, Elmare, Thanks so much, Elma Mayor. He's the co founder and CEO of Netleaf, the company using technology sensors AI robotics to give farmers a granular view of their crop.

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Tim Have you ever thought about grabbing your family, leaving your stable job and life in New York City go on to go pursue a dream of doing something completely different in another country, say making wine in the south.

Who hasn't had these sort of like you know, fantasies about just throwing it all away.

And going and doing something different.

So about your dream to me is out west zer a scheme.

Out to do with wine.

But anyway, this family man, that's what they did.

That's pretty cool.

Stephen Kronk left his career in TELECOMMUNITYSS in South London and moved to Provence, France, with his family, despite not speaking much French, all because he wanted to get into wine. Yeah, this was.

Pretty hard on his family, he told us later. Stephen is the owner of Maison Marabeau, a winery in Provence that not only produces rose but also practices regenerative farming. Steven Stapayer in New York Studio on how it all started, and yes, we may have sampled a bit of wine here and there, just a little bit.

It was a slow burn.

It took a long time to persuave my wife to sell the house, to take the children out of school and move to the south of France. Actually took ten years. And I've been talking about it for so long. My friends were getting bored and.

I had to do it or shut up, just doing a shut up.

And I had one friend came to see us from Switzerland and he said, Stephen, you've been talking about this every time I come here. And he said, let's put some dates on the table. So in fact, we used to have a blackboard in the in our kitchen and he said, okay, so when are you going to do this? And we have worked it back and in the end we ended up with a date of May two thousand and six, and he took a photograph of that, and he went back to Switzerland in May two thousand and six.

So he basically created the created the band, created the market, and then went back to kind of figuring out how you're exactly how you want to be really doing it exactly exactly.

So we five years ago we bought the vineyard, but we had we built the brand for the first ten years.

Stephen talk to us about you said, you kind of worked a little bit backwards, developed the brand, developed the market for what you guys do, and then kind of went backwards regenerated farming. Did you know you always wanted to do that and how easy was that to do in making wine?

No, I didn't know I was going to do it when we bought the vineyard. I actually looked at thirty nine vineyards before we found the right one. I mean, it's in land from Sandra Pe, It's surrounded by nature reserve. It's the most stunning parcel of land. But it had been farmed conventionally for twenty plus years. And when I say conventionally, I mean they spray it with everything, and so the soil organic matter.

Was nearly dead.

I say, wasn't it worn out?

Yeah?

It was worn out, completely depleted, And I knew I was wanted to farm organically, But organically doesn't.

Organic farming doesn't give you a pathway to rebuild.

It just gives you a checklist of what you can't do, so you can't spray any synthetic third license herbicize. But a friend of mine sent me an article written by Eric Asimov of the New York Times.

A wine guy, we could say, a wine guy, very good life, some of the science fiction guy, but a wine guy.

Yeah, exactly.

And he'd written an article about this lady in Oregon called Mimi Castile and she was farming regeneratively and I'd seen in the article pictures of goats and chickens and she running around the vineyard completely overgrown. I thought, I want some of that. And the article talked about the fact that soil can rebuild, and so, yeah, I reached out to her.

Does it make a big difference for the grapes, the taste, and then of course the wine.

It does.

But actually, when I realized that wine schools weren't teaching this, I formed a nonprofit three years ago and bought Mimi in as a trustee and a permaculturist. And now we have eight different trustees supporting it, and we want to prove the science that actually it does work and it tastes better and actually, you know, it seems to be that input costs drop as well. Because you're not plowing or spraying. You're working with nature rather than against it.

I want to We brought some wines and I want to try a little bit and you can walk us through. But this whole idea of using animals right to kind of like rework the soil and you know they're eating, they're doing their duty, if you will, But it's all working into the soil. It's kind of wild, right, but so natural? Yeah, I am I being too basic?

Is that the definition of the general firement?

Yut? But that's exactly what is. It is wild and it's natural.

That's why the animals are running around.

Right exactly. That's exactly it.

You're trying to basically duplicate what happens in nature in the vineyard in a way that still works for the vines.

I love it. So it makes perfect sense, all right, tell us We've.

Got three wines here and tell us.

So yeah, the first one is we call Mirror b Pure, which is our flagship wine. So this one. If we're getting a fancy account, we'll always try and get it in there. So I would say it's a classic provinced rose. One of the great things about provounced rose is it's always dry, and that's one reason why people always go to Province for their rose wine. And it's also the only wine version of the world that focuses itself on rose.

Ninety percent of the world's production.

Ninety one percent of the production from Province is rose, so it's only a few percent of red and wine. So and there's no other wine version of the world like that, So we really are that the experts in Provence and these wines are so versatile, so you could imagine sipping this by the pool without any food. But also it goes so well with so many not just because.

It's Friday and it's been a week, but this is lovely.

Thank you, very good.

How much does a bottle of this retail for?

This is about twenty five bucks.

It's great.

Well, you know that's interesting because we spend so much time talking about price point. I mean, that's a great price point, and it's interesting. I feel like there's been this new reality in wine that you don't necessarily have to spend a ton of money.

Yeah, no, there's I think wine at lower price points is getting much better quality.

Than it was.

Is that a way of also getting to the younger generation that we continually talk about that say that they're not interested in wine anymore, or even.

An alcohol, or alcohol's an issue with these days.

I know that my kids aren't like that. But then, kidding, just kidding, I think it's it's funny.

I was listening to an article recently about cocktails and because cocktails are really on trend, I think during the pandemic people got used to that, and and the cocktails made in front of you in a bar, and you feel really special because and wine by the glasses often the same price as the cocktail, and it's poured out of the bottle because all the work has happened at the other end the supply chain.

All right, so talk to us about the second line.

The second one. Okay, Now, if you put your nose into that. It smells a little bit different and that's because it's actually been oak aged.

Yeah, so this is is different.

It is different. It's a very different style as well.

I'm not a big rose person, but these it's nice exact.

Especially in fact, if you close your eyes you probably think this is a fancy white burgundy.

It's really really stylish. This is from our estate.

So this is regeneratory farms and it's organic, but it's had six months in oak barrels, so it gives a very good that's a really good one.

I always love to talk about the barrels. We've gotten kind of an education over the years about it, about the importance of them and the difference, and it does make it. It's a factor in all of this.

And what's this one called?

This is called lar Reserve by domain mirror path.

It's taking notes.

Yes, so it's because we called it lar reserve because it's in a nature reserve. And we're really this is our Regen Regen wine. I'm actually we're certifying Regen and this is something that's very interesting. So if you want to put organic on the label, you have to be certified organic. Right, But now regenerative is becoming more and more popular, so people want to certify regeneratives.

This is what we talked about with the folks at Common Gram where we talk about this movie kind of off air, this documentary, but this idea of like I'm like, well, so how do I know when I'm buying something? And they're saying that there's increasingly there's a mark, there's a demarcation if you will, or no notification if you buy some kind of produce or something that's bought that way, and so you guys are doing the same thing.

Yeah, we're doing that, and I think more and more growers will do because the supermarkets want to know if it's properly farmed regeneratively, if they're going to talk about it. But actually that's really I think the supermarket is going to get behind regen Now you're going to see in the UK, you know some of the big supermarkets are already stunch talk about.

IM gonna say, feels a little bit like super dating, not that I've ever done this. It's our speed dating, but it's speed it's speed drinking a little bit. But you're so kind walking us through it. So Steve and we have one work because we want to get to this last one.

This is this is okay, before you take a big white smell that. So this is Miraba Riviera gin a. Don't chug it, Carrol.

Chuger anyway, don't you know me?

Okay, So this is a gin.

It's a gin made from upcycled grapeskins.

But is that what gin is usually made of?

No, no, genusly made from from wheat or corn. It's so this is a it's a grain base. Interesting and this is super smooth. So being made of grapes it gives it a roundness on the palette. Right, that's forty three percent alcohol by volume. That's yet it's so smooth, it's we keep a bottle in the freezer just to chuck into a martini. We mean, I need to keep.

Just a bottle in the freezer.

Under your desk that we can use.

So do you plan to expand out the line more?

Well, it seems like a lot. Yeah, no, it's a lot.

I keep saying, no more MPD, but then the new product okay, sorry, but then then the market's changed. The young people who have going no and low out is the big growth category.

This one is normally no alcohol.

Yeah, I mean I'll take a sip of wine or two. But it's like as I've gotten older, I mean, I think a lot of my friends have done this. We just drink a lot less. Yeah, And that's that's the challenge I think for the industry.

It is the young un drinking as much.

The older people are taking more care of their health. The who came out last year and said there's no safe amount of alcohol. Oh my gosh, guys, come on.

They're just wrong.

Yeah, you know what they need. They need to drink.

They need to drink.

No, but it's interesting. Are you limited though we've only got about thirty seconds off? Are you limited by your land size of how much variety you can do?

Or no?

No, because we're working with so many growers from around the region, so our win a state represents a small part of what we do.

So now we can scale this business.

All right, Steve. And I'm just going to say it, you're kind of one of our favorite kind of guests, so you can go back anytime. No, but this has been really fun and if we find our way in Provence, I'm going to come knock on your door.

You must do that, Okay, just more than let's do a remote. We'll do a remote from you.

That would be really lovely.

I'm Stephen, thank you, so appreciate it. Stephen Kronk, founder and CEO of Maizon Mirabeau, joining us here in the studio.

This has been.

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She spent more than twenty five years as a CIA officer, working as an undercover spot all over the world, from Moscow during the Cold War, to Pakistan, Hong Kong, and a lot more.

She also did disguises for agents in the field, and was the chief of Disguise in the CIA's Office of Technical Service, going as far as disguising herself while meeting then President George H. W. Bush in the Oval Office. This was, of course, to show off the new disguise capabilities of the CIA. She wasn't trying to do anything, you know, no like seek into the White House or she did fool him.

Kind of wild.

This is just one of the stories John Amandez features in her new book in True Face, a woman's life in the CIA Unmasked. And yes, we had to start with how she did once full former President George Bush.

We had been working for years to come up with a totally animated mask, a mask that would actually work, that would you could talk, laugh, you could smile. And we got there and the very first mask that was made was an African American man and it was made for me to demonstrate to various people. And it was good. So I took it to my office director and he loved it, and he said, we're going to take it to the Director of CIA, Bill Webster, and he loved it.

It was the reveals.

Hey, beautiful.

But I'm just curious how much If masks were that good in the late nineteen eighties, early nineteen nineties when you did this, how much better is the technology now?

Well? Isn't that a good question? Because for many, many years I never talked about masks. They were considered truly classified. And then it changed and we can discuss masks. I'm not really sure how that worked. It makes me think that they are no longer classified, or they wouldn't let me talk about them, And that makes me think that we know we no longer use them.

Why do you think that would be at least.

We don't use the same thing that we were using.

Then, Okay, so I don't know.

Let's say we don't use them anymore. Why wouldn't we use them anymore? Is it because of biometrics and they've just gotten so good?

You take me because because of cyber because of the incredible technological surveillance that's out there now, this ubiquitous technical of ailance everywhere all the time. Different materials act react differently to different light sources. So under IR it might look good. Under ultra violet it might look like a dandelion. You don't know. I don't know, but the fact that I can talk about them tells me that they are no longer perhaps.

How did you get your book passed the folks who I don't want to call them censors, but the approval process.

The publication review board?

Yeah, how'd you get your book passed?

Them?

Well?

You cross the fingers on both of your hands. You remind them that by statute it should be a thirty day review. It's never a thirty day review. And you just kind of distract yourself because it can take it could take six months for them to finish, you know, looking at it and they come back and they say, there are some things here that are still classified, and we're asking you to take them out. And this is our fifth book. We take them out. We don't want to put classified material in our books.

Donna. I think when we think CIA or woman working in CIA, and I know it's not apple to apples, but for me, I'm like, is it homeland? Is it like Homeland? Like you know, you're running and you've got guns, and you've got money and you've got all this, Like what is it really like?

Well, a, it was. It was hard if you wanted to be in the operational piece of it. And there were other parts of CIA where women had made good inroads. The analytical part of it that women did wonderfully as analysts science and technology. If you had a degree in chemistry or physics or optics or whatever, we would hire you.

We would hire you at a.

Lower grade than the men, but we would bring you in but in operations. It was that's overseas, that's feet on the ground, that's meeting with the foreign targets or the foreign assets if they agree to work with US, people who are truly often risking their lives to work

What would you say women bring to the table that men don't in this kind of situation.

Well, in that scenario, women have an empathy that I think men don't necessarily carry around in their hip pocket. The men are interested in training this foreigner in whatever the technology is that they're going to report to us, and they're very focused on the mechanics of that thing. Well, I can do the mechanics as well, but I can also I don't hold their hand, but I can reassure them,

It, Tona, I am still I want to go back to how much of you know your career in the CIA, where you you know, in an office or meeting with you know, an agent or a source or something. I mean, were there moments where you really were in danger? I'm just curious about that because I think I hear CIA, and I know there's different levels, but I'm just curious about your own, since you were in some pretty serious spots.

I was in some situations that were there were certainly uncomfortable. I was in some situations that I think you would call dangerous. Not all the time. It didn't happen frequently, but when it happened, I had had so much training that I had a very good sense of what I ought to do. Not that it would always work, but you know what I should try. That's a very vague answer to a kind of general question. There was some danger there, mostly there was not.

Mostly there was not. Mostly well, But it's so interesting because I think you guys, you know, when we talk to someone like you, we get a peek into what the CIA is like and what goes on behind the scenes. And there's layers right in terms of gathering, deciphering, and you know, utilizing intelligence.

Yeah, I mean, the whole job is to bring back the information to American policymakers so they could make smart decisions, information on the plans and intentions of our enemies. Now, if you just glance around the world right now and wonder what is putin planning, what are the Chinese going to do next? What about those Koreans with their nuclear missiles, you can imagine the kind of intelligence that our policymakers

JOHNA, can you talk to us a little bit about Argo, because as I was doing research about you, I was struck that you co wrote along with your late husband Antonio Mendez, a book about the Well the hostage christ and Caper. Yeah, what exactly happened in nineteen seventy nine nineteen eighty and Iran and your late husband's role, who, by the way, was he was portrayed by Ben Affleck in the film.

Yes, he was take us back. I mean, I don't know what you were doing.

At that time, but what can you tell us about that whole experience, that whole event.

I had nothing to do with Argo when it happened. I was working in the same office. But because compartmentation is what it is, I didn't even know that it had happened.

Wow.

Wow, that says a lot right.

They started making that movie nineteen years later, which, just to point it out, Tony kept that secret for nineteen years and he never intended to tell that story. George Tennant, the head of CIA, directed him to tell the story to the New York Times. It was a moment in history when it was quiet. People were questioning did we even need a CIA? And George Tenant, I think very wisely decided to tell one good story of showing the value of the organization. Tony was going to go to

And so we did that.

We wrote the book, they wrote the script, and it's kind of interesting to compare them. The heart of the story is certainly there, but small things like Tony was never separated from his first wife. Tony had three kids, not one, so his other two kids are still angry about that because they didn't get to be in the movie. Nobody chased an airplane down a runway in a jeep with a gun. They added that, or just the little

Much more unbelievable. Did you ever get to go to the set mee clooney pit.

Yes, yes, what was that like the opening scene where they're in the embassy and trying to shred those documents and things that took place at an abandoned VA hospital outside of la I mean, that's how they do it. And when we drove up to that we drove up to that hospital, everybody was outside having a cigarette break. They were the actors, not the real people. The actors, but they were so closely modeled after the real people that Tony said, there, you know, he called them out

What do you hope someone who reads your book kind of takes away and just quickly forgive me.

I hope it's a different look inside of the CIA. It tells you day to day what you might be doing, what kinds of operations you were supporting, what the pressures were, what the dangers were. It's a very realistic look from a woman's point of view doing the work. What was it like and what was it worth. It's not just for when a lot of men are going to enjoy reading this book.

Well, we appreciate getting a peek into your life and your career and peek into the CIA. I'm Johnah.

Thank you so much.

John Amendez, former CIA officer. Her new book is called In True Face, A Woman's Life in the CIA Unmasked, and she was joining us there from Western Virginia. You're listening and watching Bloomberg Business Week. Carol Master, Tim Stanevik.

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