AMA President: 'Extremely Worried About Second Wave'

Business Week on iTunes, SoundCloud, bl Bloomberg dot com. You can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio every weekday, or watch us on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News. Yeah. I realized getting ready for this show that we've got a trio of guests from Atlanta today. Very excited about that. And our first is Patrise Harris. She is back with us, Dr Patrise Harris, she's the president of the American Medical Association.

On the phone from the a t oh my hometown. Dr Harris. Really nice to have you back with us. A very timely conversation. And your geography is relevant in part because that's where I want to art help us understand what reopening looks like so far, it's top of mind for all of us. Well, thank you for having me and glad to know you are a fellow A c Eliot. Uh. You know, certainly we've been concerted. The am A positions across this country have been concerned about

premature reopening, especially without regard to data and metrics. And you know, the original plan from the administration's task force was really a good plan, and it's set forth at least fourteen days of uh decreased in sections, and so I'm really concerned. I remained concerned, and I just read a report today about a church in Georgia who has been opened for a couple of weeks, but several of the members have now become positive and so they are reclosing.

So we certainly needs careful on on this reopening and be measured before we do so, before we relax restrictions. So do we need to so is that you're kind of saying we're going too fast? It could be in certain situations, and again it does depend on the data. That's why it's been so important, I think to make sure that there are metrics in place to review the number of hospitalizations, you know, not just the positive cases.

We need to look at the testing and context. Now, look, we are if we increase testing, we are likely to get increased number of tests as an absolute number, So we also need to denominate. We need to bother number. We need the number of infections over how much we are testing. We need to track hospitalization. We need to have this data by zip codes so we can target interventions and know what areas we need to to focus on.

For instance, if there's an area where the case numbers are low, uh no new infections, no hospitalization, then you could proceed more quickly. So it's all about having the

metrics and loosening restrictions based on the data. Well, and Dr Harrison also feels like it sort of embedded in what you're saying is consistency of data too, And I feel like I've read and heard a lot about that that you know, we're not always getting true sort of apples to apples comparisons across regions or maybe even within a state. Are you guys at the a M A sort of working on on anything related to that to

help ensure that we are making the right comparisons here. Well, I have been really concerned about the lack of standards data collection. Now. In fact, of course the A m. A wrote early on in recognition of the fact that, um black, we're over representative and death, so we asked for some standard data collection, and of course we asked for a data collection on race and f to city. So we really do need to be comparing apples to apples.

I posted something yesterday on my social media about the importance of a more standardized method for data collection, because you know, the virus doesn't stop it county borders or state borders, and so it's very important. At the very least we are all looking at the same set of numbers, so we can have greater understanding of the data. Dr Harris, So why is it that we don't you said, you know, the metrics are very important. We need to really have

standardization when it comes to the data collection. So why is it that I can have my home device, whether it's Google or Amazon, they know when I'm out of something or probably should be reordering something. Um, they can do so much. Why is it that there's so much information out there yet we don't yet have the standardization in the metrics the census right I think about how many things I got on that why is it that we haven't been able to create some kind of standardized

system for data collection? Well, well, that is the question, isn't it. And let me just say of christ being in Atlanta and working personally, of course, the AM as a lot of partnerships with the CDC, and I'm a former health director, I can tell you uh that public health from the national level, from the state and the local level, has been underfunded over the last several years,

and that we need the funding. We need to get the support to public health so that they can modernized data collection and make sure the data collection is standardized, so that that would help. We need to get the resource. Event but help me out some because Americans spend something

like three point six trillion dollars on healthcare. And I understand that's going to services and supporting hospitals and so on and so forth and facilities, but why isn't some of that money at this point in the game, you know, creating some kind of system so that we have great

data collection. Well, certainly that is our recommendation from the A and a UM and and we have called again from the very beginning for coordinated strategy because again this requires some coordination with with federal leadership, and that has been our act since the very beginning, not just on data collection, but also on supplies and testing and PPE. So we will continue to raise and amplify that issue. I'll say something more broadly, even free COVID nine teams.

You know, public health is difficult, uh to explain because it's almost public health is is work work best when people don't even know it, right, when no one gets sick at a restaurant because of inspections. And so I hope it is my hope, uh, that everyone now has a better understanding of the importance of public health in the overall healthcare ecosystem, and that we look at more resources than we certainly pay attention to UM improved data collection.

Our guest at this hour is Dr Patrice r As, President of the American Medical Association, joining us on the phone from Atlanta. Hey, I just want to Dr Harris, if I may just one more question in terms of data collection, because someone calling me out on Twitter and say, wait a minute, you ask you know, as if the data collection from tech companies is a good thing. UM, And this an individual says I disagree privacy is more important. Is that part of what's holding everything up is the

privacy concerns, which are which are important ones. But I just do wonder if that's what's slowing down our ability to really get some standardized data collection when it comes to the virus. You know, I don't think it's necessarily slowing down progress on using technology, but it is an

important consideration. UM. At the A M A we've been engaged and we just released what we call our Privacy Principles around data UM and so I just don't think that integrating obviously and concerns about competent reality should slow the process down. It should inform the process. But just from my viewing, it doesn't necessarily have to slow the

process down. We'll just have to take that into consideration as we use data, use technology, and and it will say because you know, contract contact tracing is not new, right, We've been using that in public house for some time. Technology has a role to play, but you know, we cannot forget the human connection. Even before COVID nineteen, we may be contacting someone and letting them know some not

so great information from difficult information. So it's about integrating appropriately technology with the human touch well, and the human touch I feel like is front of mine for people as they try and reopen. We talked a little bit about that a few minutes ago. Dr Harris, how much are you worried about a second wave of this hitting in the fall, Well, I'm extremely worried. You. That's been

the worry all along from the beginning. I think we should remind everyone that one of the reasons that this is my my term our emergency mitigation where we really encourage everyone to shelter in place, because as you recall, we were worried about making decisions about who would get on a ventilator if we did not have on a ventilator.

So I think people forget that and so appropriately we are having conversations about loosening uh these restrictions, but we have to make sure again that we are measured in our approach and if we have and if we go slowly, if there's a flight uptick, we know that data immediately and we can immediately reassess and readjust that. That is how we should be moving forward, loosening, reassessing and readjusting as necessary. But it is scary when you see China

doing another lockdown. I think of more than a hundred million people and and I think specifically Wuhan. So you know, it's it's it isn't a clear straight path forward, and that's certainly is um Ner rocking. The other thing, we're

all trying to figure out treatments. What did you make of the President coming out and saying that he is taking hydroxy chloroquine and this is a drug I mean, Anna has come out and and and actually cautioned against the use of some of these medicines, including I believe this.

So what is your takeaway from that? Well, here's we're we stand at the A M A. We start and begin with the science and the evidence and the fact and as of today, there is no evidence that hydroxychloricum works, either in treatment or in the prevention of COVID nineteen research trials are underway as we speak regarding hydroxy chloroquine, and we really need to let the research pan out

to know if this is safe. But what we do know now is the FDA has caution as into the use of hydroclor went outside of the hospital setting where you can't be monitored. So we we stand with the science and the evidence just got about thirty seconds. Do is this complicate though? A m A members doctors who are out in the field when the president does this and maybe patients come to them. I'm just curious what you're hearing and just quickly if you could, okay, well,

it definite complements complicate. You know, physicians have always had shared decision making with our patients, going over the risk and the benefits, and we talk about the benefits even when they're life threatening. So this is our usual course of work. All right, well, great to catch up with you. We always appreciate your time. Dr Patrice Harris, president of the American Medical Association, joining us on the phone from Atlanta.

And you know, a clear takeaway there is the data, the consistency of data, and the ability to really compare and contrast. And I was glad that Dr Harris called back to our earlier conversation where she was talking about those underrepresented and over um exposed in many cases populations, uh really over indexing in some of the different socio economic UH sectors. There so an important reminder, uh. There. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and

Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. All right, let's do a little Business week economics here. Kathleen Hayes, Global Economics and Policy Editor, back at h Q. Uh you're to hear how that's all going. She's Nar Bloomberg Interactor Broker Studio. I'm miss Sar Bloomberg Interactor Broker Studio. Carol Masser, Carl Ricka Donna also with US, Chief you economist for Bloomberg Economics. He's on the phone in New Jersey. So k H

I want to start with you. I'm guessing you have been watching UH Chair Powell and Secretary Minuchin very closely as we have. What's your big takeaway so far? Because the market, at least on the equity side, it's like, all right, well, you know the backdrop for this, of course. The backdrop for of course is that the uh Democrats and Republicans are you know, they're they're battling over whether or not more stimulus would be needed now right away,

how much or not. So that's the backdrop. And I think for both UH Chirt Powell and Secretary Mutun they went into this knowing that that for you know, from Mutune, for example, the Democrats would beat him up like crazy, and for Pow, knowing that they would push him hard to say clearly, yeah, I'm with you guys, let's do more stimulus now, and a Chair Pow, predictably, I think, slipped into the typical FED chair pattern that you kind of have to, which is to say yes, I think

there could be more stimulus. But he said I'm speaking generally, in other words, it's up to you guys to do this, and you guys decide what that should be. And I think um anutun predictably said well, look, we've done lots of things. Yes, there's been some problems. Uh, And he I think it was much more wanting to be focused on all the things they've done that are falling into place.

So long on the short of it, I don't know if if these testimonies did much more than reassure people, certainly from the FED, that they're saying they're still he's still willing to do more if needed. And I think even Chair Powell isn't ready to say today, yes we're gonna do more because they've you know, they've got four more out of nine programs to launch, etcetera. They have to see the impact they have. But again, I think you we pretty much we pretty much figured this is

the kind of day were again. I thought it was interesting, but I don't think it it gave told us anything particularly new, anything new. Carl Rickadanna, Well, I think that the you know, the new angle here is how much pressure there's going to be on the fiscal stimulus. The the amazing amount of fiscal stimulus that we have delivered in the current quarter really is just enough to get

us through that quarter. And so if we're if we're looking at an economy that still is significantly impaired as we head into the second half of the year, and most likely that's going to be the case. We'll probably have an unemployment rate that about as we turned into the back half of the year than or support is definitely going to be needed, and that's a fiscal story

that Congresses in the administration have to deal with. It also will likely mean that FED has to do more as well, and a slew of FED speakers from the chair on down have made it abundantly clear that policy makers are not in a neutral setting at the moment. They are definitely looking to lean in and do more. They're just figuring out the best way to deliver that a combination. Well, yay, just telling something really quickly. I think the question is, yeah, but if we're going to

do more, what more are we going to do? Who was it who said recently, you know, let's just let's put the money directly into people's pockets, right, let's go just give more money to people who who can't get work, who are out of work, who are you know whatever? And I think that's why this gets so complicated because there are many industries, there's many businesses, there's many kinds

of people who have been hurt by this. And I think what um some people would like to see, which is remember when we criticize Berninke back during the crisis and of the financial crisis, too many programs that that whole idea, maybe just have a helicopter that drops money on people's front lawns, right. I think that's part of the issue here. If we're going to spend more money, who is it going to support? How is it going

to support them? But it struck me that the money to like small business, that we're still main street, main street, right, that program we're still waiting for that to kick in, And that to me seems Carl's so important to this economy. Absolutely, so I'm all for Kathleen's advocacy of providing unemployment support. Maybe not literal helicopters. I thought you were. I thought you were supporting the helicopter, But you stay socially distanced

from a helicopter. Carlson. That helicopter can land in my front yard, by the way, But unemployment insurance is really one of the most critical tools for delivering funds and filling the void where it's most acute during this crisis. However, we also have to think of the business side, the supply side of the occasion of the equation, because if we're not reporting those businesses, there won't be jobs to go back to when the lockdown is released, and so

we really have to provide support on both sides. But the main danger is, and we highlighted this from the very start, uh to be too clever in delivery, and we saw that with the small business program. We also see that with the main street lending program, that if things are overly engineered and overly elegant, often they're not as effective as just a blunt force solution to the problem. So you really try multiple different things but make sure the cash is getting where it needs to go. And Carl,

is the data. Are the data showing us in any sense at this point like sort of what's working and what's not? When will we see that? Well, I think most importantly to watch for for what's working our measures like Well, first of all, financial markets are a great sentiment educators. So the fact that the financial markets have come back to a meaningful degree tells you that maybe there is a light at the end of the tunnel

for the crisis. The other thing to keep an eye on our other sentiment gauges like consumer confidence or small business sentiment, home builder sentiment, and those are starting to at least show a floor it's not some signs of recovery, but most critically will be the labor market metrics, because we need to get through the worst of this spike and unemployment to see that the economy is starting to

move on to a more even cue. So maybe we also need a virus confidence or lack of confidence index, because so many people say over and over and over, until people are confident, until there's going to be a vaccine. Well, I don't think we can wait for a vaccine necessarily because they usually take a lot longer. But I think this whole sense of when does the tide turn enough?

When are there enough treatments? Maybe those can be developed a lot more quickly where people are more willing to say, yeah, I know a lot of people. I have a friend who works for the airlines. She went back to work for her airline a couple of weeks ago. There are people who are going out there. There are people who would love to shop. There are people who are scared, and they maybe should be that they won't go near this for the long time. Carl, do you think you

could get something like that started? Famous confidencing? Next, Let's let's let me see what I can do. But importantly, we can measure that confidence and a lot of other series like the ones I mentioned deferences, business gauges, financial market performance. So of course, if we had a confidence metric of you know, people's attitudes towards COVID nineteen and and whatnot, that would be useful, but it shows up indirectly through a lot of other economic gauges. Alright, Calera, Godonna,

Kathleen Hayes, thank you both so much. Good breakdown from what we're hearing. Continue to hear a lot from that chair at j Powe. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Jason Kelly on Bloomberg Radio. We want to move on to our next segment because man if Tom Keane doesn't know about this next guest in his company, we make sure he does. We're talking about bow Ties of Vermont, which started out making bow ties years ago, now does a lot more, including making masks to protect

against the virun's transparency. I was doing research for this segment and I went to the website. I bought two masks. I'm just gonna tell you, uh. This week in our Bloomberg Business Week Small Business Survival Guide, we welcome Greg Sugar. He's the owner of bow Ties Evermont. He joined on the phone though from Florida, along with our Bloomberg News editor Demitra Cassanedi. She's on the phone in New Jersey. Demetra, let's start with you. Tell us how you were drawn

to Greg and bow Ties for your coverage. Sure, thanks, Carol um Well. I saw a post of his on LinkedIn, which is part of his story. I've talked to Greg in the past and connected on LinkedIn because of one of his other businesses a few years ago through an experiment, and I saw a post that said that he had masks and he was having a hard time finding people to buy the mask. This was in the first phase of his businesses to it when they thought and tried to do ppe and bring in the actual, you know,

verified safe protective mask. So, um, so I chatted with Greg. I called him up, and we have spent a back and forth documenting his journey of the last two months. That will be publishing on our Small Business Survival Guy tomorrow. Um But it's really an extraordinary journey that's about maths, but really about listen to your customers, respond when they say they want something, and really be prepared, you know,

to just kind of be very nimble and react quickly. Absolutely, I mean a big pivot here, Greg, So tell us about it, because one of the things it sounds like you did was think about your supply chain and your suppliers and your relationships in sort of a different way.

Help us understand it. Sure, Um, Well, when when everything was sort of happening and we heard about all these shortages going on in hospitals, I was wondering why why there was a shortage, and my first instinct was, you know, there there must be a way to get this stuff in. And so I quickly contacted my contact in China and so when I've been doing business with for fifteen years, and I said, you know, we're there's a mass shortage, of protective mass shortage here in America. Are you guys

able to create some thing? And he said, yeah, there's a lot of businesses now for getting getting started and producing uh in manufacturing these protective masks. So he and I spent about one or two days together, uh literally traveling China. I was doing it through wheat Chat, and we reached out and we finally found a couple of factories to do this. Um, I reached out. You know, I never cold call. It's not my style. I've been

an e commerce men old life. But I cold called people I was reading about online or seeing even on TV and saying, you know, we can get you some masks. Um what he tell us what you need? And so I spent about the next two weeks hustling, um, spending every night on on wheat Chat, speaking to my factory, hustling to get sailed. And eventually I bought in hundreds of thousands of masks and got into healthcare workers around the country. Even though my business is really it's men's fashion.

I sell ties, and I sell shirts, and I felled belt um pocket squares. But all of a sudden, I just I saw an opportunity because, as you can imagine, there's not a lot of boatie sails going on during this pandemic. So this for me was a way to stay above water, keep my workers busy, and really to make payroll. What's been tough, though, about being a small business owner right now, because we you know, Greg talked to a lot of small business owners, are those who

work with them. I mean, it's this has been a really difficult environment. You sound like obviously you have found a way to survive here, but it's not necessarily been easy. I mean, I think one of the biggest struggles has been this PPP program because we've been required it's nice to have the money, don't get me wrong, but we've been required to spend that money in an eight week period. Uh during an eight week period. Though, that really, at

least in retail, not lots going on. You're seeing that in restaurants and some other businesses. So I'm paying some workers to to sort of sit home and do nothing because we just don't have the business to do it. Um. That's sort of changed a little bit for us as we started getting into the cloth mask business. Um, but still, I think the biggest struggle for a lot of small businesses is this requirement to spend this this uh keeping money in eight weeks and really pay workers not to

be anything productive. It would be so much nicer if we had a lot more time to use that money to pay towards payroll instead of being forced to do it during the sme week period. While our economy is sort of getting back up and running again, we're not at full speed and so, um, I can't keep my workers busy all the time right now. And so, Greg, what do you think? What does this portend for your

business longer term? Given everything that you just laid out, You've been opportunistic, clearly, but it sounds like there still are some fairly significant financial strains here, especially when you think about sort of the mid term prospects. Yeah, well I'll tell you this. I mean, we did a really really quick pivot into cloth mass of the stuff that we all wear day to day, so now I'm not

talking about healthcare workers anymore. I'm just talking about people like you and I, And we very quickly got into that. We had some customers reach out and say, can you make some mass um? You know you're I think the belief that we were in the textile business, it would be a sort of a natural thing for us. We also had been making our s instresses. We're making mass

for healthcare workers fabric masks. This is back in March where they were wearing bandanas to to the hospital if they had to, And so we sent an email around and said, why don't you make them for your customers. So we quickly change that. So now I mean in the short term to answer your question, like the next three to six months. I mean, we still sell some bow ties and neck ties and shirts every day, but it's just we're probably down from last year in that world.

So the mask um business is really what's kind of keeping us alive and keeping us afloat. So I'm gonna ride this wave. I'm trying to own the market. We we offer seventy styles right now. There's no other business that offers so many. I've got another thirty five coming next week in another forty week week after that. I'm just gonna say, because when I went on the website, man, so many were sold out. So you definitely are you know, tapping into something. Demitra just gonna say the last thirty

seconds here for you. When you talk to small businesses, what are you hearing? Is it a lot of folks that are figuring away around this are a lot who

are struggling, you know, it's full. I mean it's businesses like Greg where there might be a type of manufacturing that enables them to figure a way around, but it's still not recouping the kind of business that they were making pre crisis, and others are struggling a little bit more if they weren't necessarily in a certain kind of business that could easily, you know, be adjusted in a way that could either make maths or create a different

form of you know, whatever you're producing and delivering it to customers. So it's still makes But the p P P point he made and the limitation on that is something that we have heard across the board as being more constraining actually in a way than than completely opening you up and making you feel like you're okay. And we've heard this a lot these some of these programs, right, that they're just kind of made so complicated, and that

they're as a result, not reaching people quickly. I mean that this whole idea of these main street loan programs haven't reached the people that it's set out to help. That was a key part of the testimony this morning. I think, yeah, right, all right, we're gonna leave it there. Hey, guys, thank you so much. Demitro, thank you. Dimitri Casandi, she's a Bloomberg News editor on the phone in New Jersey. Greg Sugar, good luck with everything, owner bow Ties of

Vermont on the phone in Florida. Bow Ties, it's really cute. It's really you'll like it. And if you checked it out, I will check it out for sure. And everybody needs mass these days. Broommro Journal. Yeah, but you let me drive. Oh no, no, no, no home. I want to drive, just drive, baby questions drying. This is the drive to the globe. Give me thanks, we'll drive us to dawn. On Bloomberg Radio. All right, it is time for the drive to the clothes. We've had an interesting market day.

Investor is to some extent maybe listening to J Powell and Stephen Minution up on Capitol Hill. I think we're just kind of in this interesting environment. Let's see what Mark Lusheni has to say, his chief investment strategies at Jenny Montgomery Scott joining us on the phone from Pittsburgh.

And as we bring him in, I do want to point out that equities at their loads of the day daw down almost one point two per cent, pretty flat on the nasdack and just down about seven tenths of one percent on the S and P. Of course, coming after one day where we saw a broad based rally that since talks significantly higher. So Mark, nice to have

you here with Jason and myself. Um, you're in charge of setting your firm's view on macro economics as well as the equity market in the fixed income market, how do you see it right now? Well, good afternoon, Yes,

thank you for having me on. Well, we've taken the position that it's certainly time to be parsimoniously allocated wrist based capitality equity markets, and by that we mean taking our constructive but cautious approach because what we've seen here is a pretty massive rally which uh including the news yesterday from Maderna is baking in and pulling forward a lot of hope and expectation that the accompanying economic recovery is going to represent the same v shape that we've

seen out of equity prices, and of course the vaccine is clearly the game changer. But as we're finding out today, perhaps investors were a little bit premature and expecting that what we saw in terms of a somewhat preliminary release around the trial efficacy that was shown from the vaccine from Madourna may have a little more work to do to prove ultimately to be the solution that we need to be able to restore normal life in the U,

asking for that matter, around the world. So eyes on vaccines, eyes on Capitol Hill, but also eyes on some big earnings this week mark, especially when we look at some of the retailers that that came out today, hump Depot and Walmart and Coles most notably. What did you read into that, any surprises or any indicators there that might give us a sense of what's going on in the real world. Again, I think it continues to be a

function of the winners and the losers. I mean, one can generalize about the retailing space and say, well, it's not a place I want to invest capital, But in fact it's much more nuanced than that. You have the hyper markets if you will, like the walmarts and the cost goes and even the target that you would put in that category that have very effectively competed in this environment for consumer spending, particularly as it relates to general

household items consumer staples, if you will. And also what's common among these franchises is the fact that they've been very good at adopting an e commerce initiative that escalated rather quickly some years ago, um. And it's not only helped them in times like this when we've been obviously shopping from our homes and and uh local you know, regional or or city specific locales, but in addition to that,

compete very effectively against Amazon. Unfortunately, as some of the others that have been saddled with brick and mortar debt that have been obviously victimized by the low traffic in the malls and some of the script classes and so on, like the Coals and the J. C. Pennies, um, that are going to struggle. In the case of those that remain open and UH struggle to come back from bankruptcy

that's been declared, like in the case of J. C. Penny. Hey, you know, Mark, I'm curious what you're hearing UM and even maybe internally within your company, how you guys, I mean,

you're in a very senior position at your company. What you guys foresee will be your responsibility to some of the big problems that are being um really revealed during this crisis, not new problems, right, whether it's inequalities, whether it's people, you know J. Powell coming out and talking about, you know, the percentage of people making forty dollars a year who are out of work right now, just struggling

to get by. Jamie Diamond coming out UH today saying it helps policy makes use the virus UH crisis as a wake up call to address some of those inequalities that are among Americans. What do you guys, What are the conversations you're having internally about the role of your firm going forward and also what you anticipate will be

the priorities of companies going forward. Will it be just about existence and making sure shareholders are happy, or will people think about the broader good even at the expense of maybe earnings per share. Well, there's lots of impact there, and yet well I do hold a senior position. Much of that kind of discussion and policy is a little bit, a little bit away from my jurisdiction as the chief

investment strategist. Having said that, I think a couple of things that we've seen, I think there's already been um if you will, not necessarily uh due to Jenny or or is going on in Jenny, but actually proceeded this and that's really a secular shift away from capitalism, if you will, in a sense of a wave from managing for only shareholder stakeholder value and really expanding that cohort

to consider labor um much more strongly. And in fact, we've seen the world more capital by way of increasing in wages and so on, benefits and whatever job security being transferred to labor. Now, this is a phenomenon that's going to take many, many years to develop to catch up that look anything like we sawftware instance, back in the nineteen sixties. But nonetheless, at least directionally, this has been a secular change that's actually been underway now for

some time. But I think also Jannythan is so unique position in that we're are privately held enterprise where a

wholly owned subsidy area pen utual. And therefore, I think our firm's management team can think differently about the decisions that they're making that are not catering to quarter over quarter public scrutiny and earnings announcements, but rather that can which benefit the strategic initiative of the firm over an extended period of time, which includes diversity measures which we've adopted and undertaken quite aggressively, and the firm dominage to

make sure that will providing the kind of access to individuals and and again cohorts UM of all various races, educational levels and income needs as a way to participate. And a really good story narrative around what Jennie Montgomery Scott has offered to UM is christ. But I think it's a goal forward. UM. You can see it by way of E s G. The Environmental, social and government in issues, which is a large and growing if you will franchise that gathering massive amounts of money from math

and managers, and they're pressing on companies to adopt more fully. Right, all right, Gonna leave it on that note, Mark, appreciate your thoughts on that, Mark Lushini. He's chief investment strategist at Jennie Montgomery Scott joining us on the phone from Pittsburgh. Thanks so much for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on itune, south Cloud, Blueberg dot com, or

wherever you get your podcasts. And of course you can always listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern I'm Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on YouTube by searching Bloomberg Global News