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You're listening to Bloomberg BusinessWeek with Karl Messer and Tim Stenebek on Bloomberg Radio. When we talk about financial inclusion, we think about the participation of different groups within the traditional financial ecosystem, think banks and financial services and the like. We talk about people being unbanked versus people being banked.
And according to a FDIC survey from twenty twenty one, it's the most recent year that data are available, unbanked rates were higher among lower income households, less educated households, black households, Hispanic households, working age households with a disability, and single mother households. Also, differences in un banked rates between black and white households and between Hispanic and white households in twenty twenty one were present at every single
income level. One person who thinks a lot about financial inclusion is Sheena Allen, the founder of Mindful AI. She's also the founder of a former CEO of Capway, She's spent her career thinking about financial inclusion. She joins us now from a Los Angeles she in a good to have you on the program, How are you?
I will how about yourself.
We're doing really well. I want to talk about your most recent startup, Mindful AI. You're focusing on the idea that helping those folks out there who have a vision but don't necessarily have the skills too or education to create that vision that they have in mind. I mean, this is like the promise of AI, right.
It's supposed to be.
It's supposed to be. Okay, are we there?
You know the point of mine? Well, so Mife was a parent company. One of our first products is about people who are or have a idea for some software, usually an app or our website. But the problem in AI is we are still full of gaps and biases with a lot of the data that goes into making these advanced systems and these language models. And that's the part that we want to change in Mindful.
Do you see because you're a big part of your career is focused on financial inclusion when you were at Capway, do you see similarities between financial inclusion or lack thereof and inclusion when it comes to AI?
I do the parallels are when I was you know, a Capway and I still continue to do that work. In other aspects, we talked about unbanked underbank. I'm born and raised in Mississippi, so the state that has the highest population of unbanked the underbank residents. So that was family that was family members still live to some degree. You look at the fact that Mississippi, I use that as an example. We just got to Chase Bank maybe
in the last year year two. I think a lot of people think that national banks are everywhere, but that's not the case. By the time, it's local banks, it's community banks, and all the times there's no banks at all. And so a lot of what we dealt with at Capway was people who didn't have access to the system, and if they did have access to the system, did they trusted, did they have the knowledge that they have
the access. We saw an expedited piece in financial inclusion with COVID, because of course people couldn't walk into a bank branch. But similar to financial inclusion, a lot of the biggest issues it's lack of data, it's lack of knowledge, it's lack of access from both sides. You got to think when we got our twel hundred dollars from COVID, people were surprised that a lot of people came out and said, well, how am I supposed to cash this check? I don't have a bank account. I can't get out
of docum deposit. Now, I think we're seeing that an AI from the aspect of people are starting to realize just how many, how much of biases are playing a role some of the advancements that we're seeing.
So talk about some of the products that you have mindful AI and how those products are specifically helping black businesses. Yeah.
So one of our first products is a product called app it out like map it out, but it's app it out, and the entire idea of it is taken get giving someone who has an idea for an app, for a website or some form of software, but they don't have a technical background, and how do we use AI. One aspect of AI, which is called room is taking
text to software. That's the AI piece of it. But the way that's happened, particularly for black businesses and small businesses is when you think of black businesses, if you look at the stats, to look at the data, most of them only employ one person, which is themselves, and usually don't they don't have that money to hire a tech team to offshore to outsource and most of them don't have a technical background, and so how do we create something that help some advanced We are in a
digital space, a digital world. And while yes it's great to have on social media, so Facebook page, Instagram page, which is also a great way to engage with customers. Can an app help you? Can a website help bring more sales, more customers? And so for people who struggle there and they don't have that access, they don't have that knowledge, they don't have the money to hire someone, how do we take app it out? How do we take room AI and create that text and software particularly for them?
And how many give us a sense of just I guess the scale right now of mindful AI. Who are your customers and how has that grown since you know you started the company to where we are now?
Yeah, you know, we focus right now strictly on like the non technical aspect. We have some other products that are coming right now. App it out is what we focus on. We're working from everywhere from enterprise to individuals. So it's a mixture, it's not one or the other. Also small businesses. And it's interesting because we have two sides to app it out bringing customers for both sides. We keep a human aspect to it, so we have everything from like workbooks to courses to boot camps, and
then now it's working on this more small language model. Really, as we're bringing in room for the text to software, we're seeing that growing from once again individuals to more of now enterprises and small business and enterprises, so we
continually see it grow. I think people underestimate how many people are non technical but would love to have some form of an app or a website or some form of access to technology that oither once again they don't know about or they don't have the funds to do.
I'm wondering about the startup landscape right now and what it's like going out there and looking to raise money and talking to angel seed and in venture capitalists investors right now, what's the vibe you're getting from them when you pitch them.
AI is still kind of a hot trend right now. It is cooling itself, but overall in the startup space, what is for myself of them speaking to peers, just knowing the space in itself, It's actually still tough, you know. I don't think we will ever see it. I don't know, if I'll say ever, it will be a while before we ever see the funds flowing the way that we saw in twenty twenty one and some of twenty twenty
two four things to the shift. We're still wing on interest rates to be cut, you know, we're hoping that they come sooner than later. But a lot of investors are not deploying capital. If they are deploying capital, what's required to get that money is a lot of different circumstances. It used to be, Hey, I have an idea, I'm precede, I need this to do X y Z. Nowad is what is your attraction? What is your revenue? And if you don't have that, do you have a true path
to revenue to custom attraction? What is your goal to market? Is it feasible? How much does it take to get there? So a lot of more questions are being asked, a lot of more requirements are being needed in are to get money that the startup landscape, the investment landscape is still very much a rocky roll right now.
How many news are you getting forevery yes?
Now it's crazy cafway I would have probably said twenty to one's.
I mean I've heard. I've heard worse, like you know, in terms of experience.
Go ahead, Yeah, no, you're right, Cafway wasn't as bad. This one is is a little bit different. It is as and once again you're in the hot space. Yeah, but it is the fact that you're having to pitch to way more people now. And I think the issue that we've seen, honestly or for me the CEO who's pitching, is a lot of investors are still taking investment meetings, but they're not honest about the fact that they're not
deploying capital, and so that plays a role into it. Also, it's like I would rather just tell me that, hey, right now, we're not deploying capital, and I could have saved that meeting. But I think a lot of investors still they still want to be part of it. They won't know what's going on. They want to have the conversations, keeping their network. But as the CEO from the other side, you know, it hurts because you know, we're trying to
raise money. We need to get to more yeses for people who are actually deploying capital.
She know, we only have about a minute left, but I'm looking at your background and It's quite impressive. You've been the founder of multiple startups. What kind of advice would you give to young people who are maybe from a non technical background but want to get into the startup space.
Find great mentors, find great sponsors. All these two different things. Mentor sponsors and find networks where you can find people to be quargrt team team is extremely important. I've been a solopreneur. Is extremely tough find great team members in networking place and how you do that?
Shina, thanks so much for joining us on Bloomberg Business Week. We do really appreciate it. Sena Allen, founder of Mindful Ai, also the founder and former CEO of Capway. Sina joining us from Los Angeles,