A Look at Energy, ESG, and Addressing Climate Change

You can also listen to our radio show at two pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watches on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. We're watching the energy markets once again, Open Plus agreeing to increase the size of its oil supply hikes by about fifty in a deal that kept Rush at the heart of the cartel while also heating pressure from major consumers, including the YES and the United States.

Excuse me meantime, we've got the EU approving a six packet of sanctions, including a partial ban on Russian oil imports, after further objections from Hungry held up in agreement. Great to have with us right now. Dr ellen Wald, President of Transversal Consulting, also senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, Andy Bloomberg opinion contributor. Ellen's joining us on the phone from Jacksonville, Florida. Dr Wald, good to have you with us.

Can you explain to me why, given the news that that we got from about OPEC increasing the size of its oil supply, uh, why we're not seeing oil prices pulled back at all? Exactly. Well, the part of the reason is because we're unlikely to see the amount of oil that actually actually get on the market that OPEC is talking about increasing their quotas by so um. You know, we're we're talking about an increase of about six hundred

and fifty barrels a day for the group's quotas. But at this point really only Saudi Arabia and the UAE can increase production, and to the maximum amount of production we can see it increase out of Saudi Arabia that we would expect to see would be about a hundred and seventy thousand barrels per day, which is really not that much when you consider the size of the global

oil markets. So um. While a lot you know, pay members are free to increase if they can, we're talking about a group where a lot of them are just tapped out. So Ellen I earlier talked to the CFO of Chevron for an upcoming Bloomberg event, and you know, we were reminded that there are energy booms and energy busts, and he says, this is cyclical and it will settle

down again. And so, you know, do producers think about that, Especially when you think about the major integrated global oil companies, you know that in terms of kind of investments to really ramp up supply, they're going to be hesitant because they know it's cyclical and there's also a world that we're supposed to be increasingly moving towards alternative energy. Well, I think that they are definitely aware of the cyclical nature of the oil market, and oil companies are used

to this kind of boom and bust. In fact, you know, if you look at hiring when it comes to oil companies, you know they'll hire a lot of people when things are good, and then when prices collapse, a lot of them end up getting laid off and and that's kind of the nature of of the business. It's interesting because you know, high oil prices do tend to spur investment and development of new resources, but that takes time. It's

not something that happens overnight. And UM, I think it's it's taking a bit more time in this cycle because there's so much external pressure on oil companies not to invest in new resources. Be that from UM shareholders who are really just looking to see oil companies putting uh, you know, putting their profits back into uh dividends and and other things to return uh money to shareholders or UM.

We're also seeing pressure from governments. They are making it very difficult for companies to uh, you know, to develop new resources. The US, for example, has there's been a lot of regulatory uncertain t with a buid administration, and that makes companies very hesitant to expand we're just now starting to see companies in Europe expanding in you know, new gas fields, for example. But those kinds of fields are not going to come on into production for some time.

So we may be into a period of uh it may be a bit of an extended period of high prices, just like we saw an extended period of low prices preceding it. What does an extended period of high prices mean? Because everything that you just said, Dr Wald makes me think that there's no end in sight to five six dollar downs of gas at the pump and high energy bills in summer and winter. And I'm curious what extended

means and what how high it might go in that extension. Well, how high it goes depends on It depends on a lot of things. And also we are seeing. Part of what we're seeing in the market is also there's there's a premium and prices, both electricity prices and gasoline prices

up from the geopolitical events in Europe without a out. So, you know, if that were to say, be resolved in the next couple of months, I think we would definitely see prices pulled back, although I really don't know if barring you know, if if we're still at the same levels of demand, I'm not sure that we would see a return to say, like you know, forty or fifty or even sixty dollar oil. We'd probably be more firmly

in the seventy eighty maybe ninety dollar area. Now that of course sounds great when you're talking about prices are like a hundred and eleven today, so you know, so so it is all all kind of relative um and the oil market is very volatile right now, and it does depend if we enter a period of economic recession and potentially contraction, we could also see demand drop and that could help cause oil prices to pull back some.

Though I still don't don't see us getting back to those low numbers that we had, you know, in twenty nineteen. Ellen just quickly just got about here, will though today's current situation geopolitical crisis lead the world to think about Venezuela more aggressively despite problems obviously with that political environment or present Biden meeting with MBS in Saudi Arabia. I mean, do we need to think that these alliances are going

to have to change? Sorry, just got about seconds. Yeah, I think it's difficult to say that because Venezuela has such issues with its oil industry anyway, that we can't expect a lot of oil to come on the market from from them anyway, regardless. Alright, situation, Ellen, Always nice

to get time with you, Dr Ellen Wall. She is President of Transversal Consulting, Senior Fellow a the Atlantic Council, Bloomberg Opinion contributor, and she also wrote the book Saudi Inc. On the history of Aramka Ramka excuse me in Saudi Arabia. You're listening to Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with

Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stenovic on Bloomberg Radio. Well, it is a thirty billion dollar market cap company customers around the globe, more than two thousand locations around the world, helping to create so called intelligent buildings to help address our worsening climate crisis. We're talking about Johnson Controls International, which is also a company's got a great vantage point

when it comes to the global economy and corporate expenditures. Well, that's exactly where I want to start with George Oliver, Chairman and chief executive officer of Johnson Controls. George joining us via zoom from Milwaukee. George, how are you. I'm doing very well. Great to be with you today. Well, as Carroll mentioned, you do have such a great view on what's going on here in the United States and around the world. What is your view of the economy

here in the US. Yeah, when we look at what's happening within our business, um, you know, we see unprecedented

demand for what we do within buildings. You know. Let me start by talking about what we do were smart solutions provider for buildings and infrastructure, and uh, you know, we did a merger five years ago which put together to leadership companies in the space Tycho and John's Controls, and what our strategy of of taking the multiple you know, building systems and then being able to deploy technology with a data platform that enables us to be able to

significantly change the outcome of buildings. And those outcomes are reducing energy demand, improving the indoor indoor air quality, and ultimately you know, making autonomous buildings. And so for us, given the the the environment that we're in, we're seeing very strong demand. We've got backlogs that are that are reckon high backlogs. Our challenges have been shorter term is ultimately converting with the supply chain challenges on that demand.

And when you look at what we do within buildings, you know, when you look at the global carbon footprint, it represents about the of the overall global covernment footprint buildings do. And then the opportunity that we have now as a smart building solutions provider to significantly reduce the energy that's consumed in the building at the same time that we're upgrading the indoor air quality and ultimately creating an autonomous, autonomous build So for us, we're watching the

economy closely. But given what we see now going forward, where now buildings have become much more strategic um. I think in the past they buildings were built with multiple systems separating apart, and now with the opportunity to bring that all together into one solution set, we're seeing very

strong demand. So when we look at the market that ultimately is being created with these new problems that our customers are are trying to solve, we see roughly accumulative about billion dollars of additional market over the next decade. So we're watching it closely, but right now we're really focused on being able to execute on the backlock to support our customers. It's interesting when you talk about unprecedented demand,

strong demand, UM George. How much of it is because of companies looking to cut costs and be more efficient. How much of is it because of regulatory changes or the push towards you know, concerns about climate change and

being much more sustainable. How much of the demand is new build Well, when you look at let me start with the commitments have been made on climate change or or decarbonization that have been made broadly across businesses as well as with governments, and I think coming back from Davos from last week, it's how do we take all of the commitments that have been made and ultimately how do we now you know, bring that together with a

combination that's shared between business and government and ultimately now capitalize on what we see the opportunity to be. So for us with those commitments and recognizing now to get to net zero, buildings are going to be an important part that have to be addressed to get to the

commitments that have been made. So we're seeing that for instance, in our in our sustainable sustainable solutions business, we we see a pipeline now or of let's say about seven billion dollars and will convert roughly a billion of that during during the course of the year. So we are seeing a significant demand for the type of solutions that

we can now provide. And where you are uniquely positioned as Johnson Controls that not only do we have the billing systems, but now with our open Blue platform, which is a platform that allows us to be able to bridge all of the building systems together and then ultimately create outputs that historically haven't been delivered. All right, So

help me out here. So how much though is you know, in terms of that demand, if you had to put it into cuts of a pie or percentage wise, how much of that demand is new build how much of is it cause of regulatory change? You know? How can you break it down a little bit? I'm curious about what's the psyche of people who are who are doing the spend. So Carola, what I would say, it's both

with the pandemic. When the pandemic hit, we immediately saw our demand to be able to upgrade the indoor air quality, which requires upgrading systems and deploying digital to be able to then optimize how you deliver a clean air delivery rate within buildings. So we saw that which is really taken the built environment and being able to elevate that built environment to solve for today's problem. So lot of retrofit, a lot of upgrade, a lot of repair, leveraging our

our technologies. Now at the same time you've seen the new construction come back. You know, when you look at Architectural Building Buildings Index and a lot of the other metrics you've see whether there has been an expansion and

a lot of that growth is coming back. So for us, it's been both and it's not only a significant demand for upgrading the existing built environment, but at the same time fundamentally changing how buildings are built that ultimately going to be able to deliver a significant different outcome as it relates to energy consumed as well as the environment

that's created. One thing I want to know, George Um, you know it's interesting are David Weston catching up with Larry Think over a black rock and talking about we're gonna be living with more uncertainty, saying the inflation problem isn't you know, it's policy related, but that the fet isn't someone who can fix some of these issues. Specifically talked about the supply chain, UH and the supply chain problems.

How is your supply chain? Are you seeing any kind of loosening in some of the snarls that have been out there if you look at what's happened over the last couple of years with the pandemic and then the multiple shutdowns that have occurred to contain the virus, and now some of what we're experiencing in China with the shutdowns there, I mean, then at the same time with the Ukraine crisis and and then with in our space

the unprecedented demands. So when you put all of that together, we've we've had our own challenges and we've it's really about resiliency, and so not only with what we do to help our customers with their buildings and infrastructure and creating resilient, much more resilient buildings and communities, but also making sure that we're working with our suppliers to create a much more resilient supply chain globally. And that's what that's what we've been doing the last two years, and

we've made a tremendous amount of progress. Now what we're seeing is with that strategy, we are seeing improvement um and and it's across all of our commodities, whether it be microchips and semiconductors or other other materials, and so we've been working through it um. But resiliency in in in supply chains and mean, George, what does that mean? Does it mean you're shifting where you're doing it or

what does that mean. We've always had a strategy in our supply chain to be local for local and so

when you are manufacturing footprint. We have manufacturing footprint and all of the key markets we support, and then we build local supply chains to support those manufacturing plants with local supply and so there are when you're building a global supply chain, there are some products that are used across multiple markets and so you can't predict you know, whether it be the environment and natural disasters or pandemics or you know, these some of the geopolitical challenges that

that might exist. And so our strategy has been to be local for local and we've been developing not only the right product but also having the local supply chain that creates resiliency and how are how we're able to then you know, be able to support our customers and deliver for our customers. So that with the idea that you have multiple sources globally, so as you're going through some of this disruption, you've got a supply chain that

has multiple sources, so you can source from multiple multiple locations. Um, all of that comes together into having a supply chain that's much more resilient. George, I'm really intrigued when you said you're seeing improvement in the supply chain where specifically are you seeing that and you're seeing improvement when it comes to commodities as well as it chips? Is it like? What is it? It's been When we look at the work that we've done to strategize our semiconductors and chips

were making good progress there across the globe. UM. A lot of our supply chain challenge was in North America.

When we look at our supply chain, we have multi tiered suppliers and a lot of the challenges that we had with the disruptions from from COVID shutdowns and then some of the labor challenges UM not necessarily within our facilities, but within our suppliers that UM and so we've worked very closely with them and being able to address their their labor challenges ultimately getting the supply chain back operating.

So it's really looking at all levels of the supply chain UM as well as all when you look at the global footprint, all regions, and we've been making part pretty much across the board. Georgia, are you expecting a recession movie later this year or maybe next year? Are you? Are you when you gather your management team, do you say, guys, this is what you know? We need to have the playbook ready for well, you can go back with the pandemic, and I think we we we demonstrated this very well.

We've been creating a lot of agility with how we operate as a company, and we've had an incredible opportunity with the work that we do within buildings and infrastructure to respond to these crisis like for instance, a good example is in the early days of the pandemic, we support critical infrastructure, which is healthcare, and we were on the front lines building hospitals in a matter of days that had the highest air quality and ultimately the resource

that they needed to be able to attend to those infected. And so we've we've built you know, we've been very agile with what we do, not only responding to the new demands and the crisis, but also agility relative to understanding a little bit of what's gonna potentially happening and make sure that we're always positioned to be able to deliver for our customers, be able to solve their biggest problems, and then ultimately make sure that we're taken into account

what we see happening on the horizon. So being agile in case of whatever comes your way, So could be a recession could not? Is that Is that fair to say? Yeah? Like I said, right, our focus right now is delivering on the backlog and delivering for our customers given what

we've seen here over the last about eighteen twenty four months. Obviously, I think the demand that we see now solving the biggest problems within buildings, which is indoor ere quality, making making them much healthier and safer, and then also being able to address the global carbon footprint that domain is going to continue because the commitments have been made and I'll really our customers have to deliver on those commitments.

So we're working closely to make sure we understand how that plays out and how we're positioned to support our customers. At the same time that we're taking into account making sure that we're we're gonna be agile with any downturn that might might occur in some of the key markets

that we operated. But you know what I would, it's really all about making sure that we're not only supporting the customer with the demand that we have today in the backlog, but at the same time taken into account the factors that we see that potentially could impact US longer term. George, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. George Oliver. He is chairman and chief executive officer Johnson Controls. Joining us via zoom from Milwaukee.

This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. We did hear David West and talk about this in his conversation with Black Rocks Larry Fink about Getcha Banks and battle d the US group, the CEO resigning hours after police raid at the asset manager, the culmination of months of controversy surrounding the executive. But it really Lee was about allegations um by the company's former chief sustainable ability officer at

the company inflated its E s G credentials. You and I talk a lot coming off of milk in so much E s G conversation that it does feel like that space is going through a reckoning. Yeah, and interestingly enough, Larry Fink said that Black Rock doesn't want to be the quote environmental police. We've got a great voice on this. Garvin J. Bush is the co founder and chief investment officer at Green Alpha Advisors. It's based in Boulder, Colorado. But we got j with us right now. Uh excuse me, Garvin,

We've got you with with us right now. How are you. It's good to day. That would be actually kind of cool. I was looking at Ja, I was looking right up at the J Bush. It's good to help you with us, and it's good to have you with us in the Bloomberg Interactive Broker studios. It's been it's been years since you've been back in the studios, three years. Carol just looked it up and it's great to be back. Thanks for having me and you guys. Well, how is the

conversation around E s G shifted? Because I think Carol makes a really good point. There's we're sort of seeing this backlash right now. It's interesting. I think if cynically, I might say, it's interesting to me that E s G has finally achieved enough success that it's getting pushed

back from the more incumbent part of the industry. A little less cynically, I might say that while of course everyone has their first memory to criticize whatever they want, equally we all can invest by whatever criteria we want, right. That's how markets are. That's how they work. So that could be I don't know, value or growth or momentum, or it could be thematic right, including E s G. And over time the markets reward the best ideas and the things that grow the most and compound the most

and have the most intrinsic value. So this isn't going to be one or lost by rhetoric. But in the end the markets will will bear. WHOA wait a minute. So I'm just thinking if I'm going to commit money to E s G like I expect it to, like you guys are all about companies whose products and services address the global economy's greatest system level risks. You know, I want my money potentially in an area that is not going to impact negatively the environment or something, you know.

So I do wonder to some ex and if you're selling something that it's going to do something, doesn't it have to do that? I would argue very much that it does. And in fact, that Green Alpha we don't brand as e SCH for that reason. It's jone. I was going through your website. My god, I don't see

that anywhere. Yeah, thanks for noticing that. Yeah, yeah, no, we we want to go right after the actual solutions to our to our most key system level risks that actually have the ability and our threatening to undermine the global economy and therefore undermine our our the reason we invest right growth of assets. So what are the biggest risks scarving? So we define those as the climate crisis, resource recradition, farmland, top soil, water, those kind of things.

Human disease burden. Uh, that could be pandemics, cancers, diabetes, what have you. So anything that that that lowers the overall total risk of the global economy is something we're interested in. If you're raising the risk to us, all we're gonna pass. It's not quite s G. But is the alpha there? And has the alpha been there? Because look at what we're seeing with markets this year, best performer in the energy, best performer in the SP five

hundred energy. If you're not invested in energy right now, you're feeling a lot of pain. Yeah, and how about defense also doing quite well? Right? Well? So that is

that is a good point. And I can point to the mutual fund that I manage any xt X not to plug it, but uh, since it's about nine and a half years old, it's got a comfortable four dred something annual average basis point lead over sp X. That said, it's much more volatile than sp X. Right, It's it's up more on bull markets, it's down a little bit more in bear markets. Overall, that's pretty handy track record

about performance, and yet it's uncorrelated. So our thesis overall says that volatility and structural risk are not the same thing, and we'd much rather invest to mitigate structural risk than short term volatility. So we think of ourselves as a long term strategy, like for us, five years of short term.

So when you drilled down a little bit, because I'm always interested in the in the specific companies and kind of ideas that you're thinking about, So tell us where you go, right, So, mitigating those system level risks we discussed, I guess I'll just start with health human disease burden. We really love like no Go because I was a maderna. What a father? Yeah, yeah, we do have maderna. We've

had it since before the pandemic. We caught it very early, which was nice for you know, but it was because thesis it was what owns a bunch of I p around something that is transformative, step change, way of doing things. So not a big farmer that's going to tweak small molecules a little bit. But what's cracking you know, evolution the messenger to RNA messenger RNA before anyone knew what m RNA was. Yeah, So bion tech and and Maderna

both on that basis were in our strategies. But then elsewhere things that are doing things that are addressing cancer in a way that could be a one and done treatment. So christper therapeutics, editas medicine, ARCHI tourists, Bean therapeutics, the guys that own the real I P around how do use gene editing to just fix human disease? So what do you think of someone like and we just got about forty seconds a Kathy would who does think in a different way. And I feel like she's become a target.

I know, I I've talked to her a lot. We've talked to her a lot. I mean in terms of her think, it doesn't sound like it's that dissimilar to some extent, And just got about sure kathy strategies and ours. You know, I've co presented on a panel with her once or twice. We've compared notes a little bit. I wouldn't say, I know her. Um, we're similar in that we both value innovation. We both very much value important

intellectual property estates. Where we differ is arc and I hope I'm not out of term, but it seems to value innovation for its own sake. Green Alpha values innovation in the service of solving a system level risk. So there's a key difference as well. Really fascinating. Uh, now that we've reconnected, come back soon so we can continue

this conversation, all right for well. Garvin J. Bush, she's co founder chief investment officer at Green Alpha Advisers, based in Boulder, made his way to New York City on this Thursday. This is bloom Park a journal. Yeah, but you let me drive? Oh no, no, no, no no, all right, please, I want to drive. It's good question. Drive. This is the drive to the clothes on Bloomberg Radio. You are listening to Bloomberg Business Week Karl Masser along with Tim's Stanovic.

It's almost time for the banana break, isn't it. Yeah, we do a little banana break. It's just after eleven. Get a little hungry right here for three hours? Yeah, I get some food. I got a little grumbles in my tummy. Meantime on Wall Street. As Doug mentioned, we've got a rally underway, bouncing off those loads of the day. Quite a swing. I was just looking at the one hundred up two and a half percent, it's high down

eight tens of a percent, it's low. So what a three and a half or three point three percent swing from high to low? Yeah, that's quite the swing. Let's hear from Liz Young, the head of investment strategy. It's so far. Liz joining us this afternoon on the phone from New York City. Liz, how are you? I am good. I'm delighted to be here, especially on a rally day. You can sam bana a day. Every day has been in a day. We're delighted to have you back with us, Liz.

I mean, how how should investors look at this rally that we're seeing because it does snap a two day It would have been a three day losing streak if lows would have held for the day. Um, did we hit the bottom last week? Oh? Tim, Tim, Tim, come on, go ahead, like Tim, Tim? Tim insert grown here? Hey. People want to know if that was the bottom? I know, and I hate to let them down. I'm not going

to try to call it. I don't think anybody should. Frankly, I don't think it's a useful thing to try to figure out, especially because even though at some point in the future we will look back and find a day where we say, oh, that was the low right, that's where we hit that low point, this entire process right now is a is a bottoming range, right, and I think that we're going to be in it for a little while still. So the original question was how should we look at this rally. I don't think that we

can declare premature victory. We don't have really any new information. Now. What I will say is after going through a really tumultuous April and then going through May, where at one point we had swung twelve full percentage points, you know, from bottom point to top point. I mean, that is a huge swing in one month's time. But if you would have fallen asleep April thirt and woken up May

thirty one, it says if nothing happened at all. So I think investors are a little bit battered right now, and a lot of the whip lash that has occurred in the market could still keep occurring. Through the first part of June, maybe even all of June, until we have a little bit more information from the FED and we get through at least another hike. I actually think we need to get through two more hikes before we start to be able to look into the future and say, Okay,

I feel like I know more about where things are going. Yeah, I do feel like we're gonna have to let the FED do its thing for a little bit and then settle and see how it plays out. Right, because as FED interest rate hikes, you know, we talked about with our Michael McKee, who follows the FED and the international economy, and said, you know, FED moved moves, you know, impact things like auto sales and home sales. They're most sensitive,

and we saw that already play out. We've seen obviously some weakness in both of those sector, but the rest of it's going to take some time. Having said that, Larry Fink of Blackrock on with our David Weston just about an hour or so ago, saying that the FED doesn't have the tools to fix the supply problems or fix the COVID lockdowns, and that's what creates the inflationary pressure. So how do you think about that, and then ultimately, as the FETE is raising rates, impact that will have

on asset values, particularly the equity trade. Yeah, well, first of all, I love David Weston, so I love that we just got to all do. It's a little bit of a fan club over here. Is so great, very smart and thoughtful in his questioning. Look, the comments are correct that the FED can't fix the supply problem, and the comments are also correct, however, that they can affect demand. And inflation is a two pronged beast. So the more demand there is, and if we have a constraints supply,

that's what causes inflation. A very simple definition of inflation is more money chasing fewer goods. So we're correct that they cannot fix the fewer goods problem, but they can fix them more money problem, right, and we have officially started quantitative tightening. Rate hikes do affect autos, they do affect the housing market, but that's on purpose. And if you think about what's been driving inflation, used cars and trucks were a huge driver of inflation for a long time,

and we want to see that rollover. The housing market is a little bit more difficult to measure in our traditional inflation indicators. But we have started to see some softness in the housing market too, and I think that also needed to happen. That's something that is pinching consumers. And think there's been a huge growth obviously in mortgages and then home prices have hit just astronomical highs, So we did need to see or at least start to

see a rollover in those particular spots. I think the Fed stays on this half though, for a while, because they don't have any reason to stop yet. They obviously are not going to be awarded by equity returns being negative. They if that was going to happen, they would have already done it right. So they've still got a tremendously tight labor market and that's probably going to take a

while still to crack. They still have an economy that, as far as anybody can tell on things like p m I and manufacturing activity, retail sales is still pretty strong, and a consumer that's still spending. So there needs to be more cracks in the pavement. I think they will come, but there need to be more before the said relax. You know, it's funny that you see pm I because I was just looking at our markets live blog and it says none of historical conditions are meant for stocks

to bottom, and I do wonder. And they talked about specifically, um about the I S M P m I markets bottoming about two months before the I S i'm pm I manufacturing index stop falling. This is something that we've seen historically, and saying the average pm I reading at the stock bottom is forty eight compared with fifty six, which is what we see today. You know, I love the research you sent over. You look at a lot of different metrics. What's the metric on your radar to

really understand maybe when we have reached bottom? Yeah, So I actually I tried to take a little more positive spin on it. Instead of saying, let's call the bottom. I took an aspect of when can I feel more confident in one of these rallies. We keep talking about bear market rallies, right, and we've really only had three periods this year where we've had a rally that's lasted longer than three consecutive days, which is pretty sad. This is a tough start to the year. But when can

we start to feel more confident? It's things like the market broadening out, so market breadth and the way that you can measure that. There's a number of different ways you can measure that, but the ones that I looked at were things like how are the different industries performing in those rallies. So of the first couple rallies that we had, EXAC did the best, the SMP market cap weighted index did the best, and the equal weighted index

didn't do quite as well. In this last one, all three of those industries did exactly the same, which tell me that there are other sectors besides tech that are starting to show strength or catch a bid however you want to say it. And there are smaller stocks that are catching a bid, and that's definitely a good thing to see. Well, that's good to know, and we talk a lot about that small cap space in particular. Hey, Liz,

always fun, always thoughtful, and informative. Liz Young, head of investment strategy at SOFI Technologies, on the phone from New York City, a member of the David Weston fan Club. I'm just going to say, along with the rest of us,