You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. To remember yesterday we were talking. You actually highlighted this uh and put it on all of our radar earlier in the morning. It was a Bloomberg Big take, and it was a story that really talked about COVID. And we're not just talking about long COVID. We're talking about three quarters of survivors of critical COVID illness developing post intensive care syndrome.
It's a constellation of brain, lung and other physical problems within three months of discharge. And this was from a study that was put out in May. UH it rendered some seven fifty thousand post i c U patients worldwide at risk of cognitive dysfunction in the pandemics first year alone. It's the result of some of the treatment that people got when they went into the hospital. Uh. There are some for some long term repercussion. We're not talking mild
COVID here. We're talking intubations. People who have been in the su and the like. Yeah, and it's a tough way of living for some individuals. It also puts more strain and stresses on the health care system and economy. And someone who's very aware of the stresses that are out there already when it comes to healthcare and nurses in particular is Dr Iman Abuse. She's CEO and co
founder at Incredible Health. We always remind you that her company is all about connecting hospitals with nurses and other healthcare workers. She really has her finger when it comes to the health care community and nurses in particular. Dr is great to have you back with us. It's been
sometime since we last connected. We always love to ask you about what you're seeing on the platform right now, what you're seeing when it comes to the nurses that you connect with hospitals around the country, because it has been a tough three years for them. Is it getting any better? Thank you so much for having me. Uh So, there's some aspects that are getting better and some that are not so. As we're going into three we're expecting
continuing wage inflation among permanent nurse workers. Uh you know, and that's been you know, the wage increases have been going on for multiple years now. That's a good thing. Is that a good thing? Like playing catch up with what many would argue, Um, you know, healthcare workers, nurses in particular, being underpaid. It's it's honestly a result of
just supply and demand and balances. When there's big labor shortages, then then employers have to pay more for the labor um And the other thing we're seeing as we're going into next year is just higher high vacancy rates. The US healthcare system has the highest vacancy rates in nursing than in the history of the US healthcare system. Uh and uh increasingly that we're seeing the highest turnovers ever
as well. So at is the annual turnover right now, which is the highest it's ever been because of how hard the job is. Is it because they should be getting paid more? I mean, how much are they getting paid? Why are we having such a problem here? Yeah, So the big challenge is as a result of the pandemic, there aren't enough Even prior to the pandemic, there weren't enough nurses. The pandemic made that challenge even even worse.
And so we're seeing very high levels of burnout and nurses leaving the profession, either choosing to retire early or leaving the profession permanent, or and there's also not enough nurses being trained either, so it's a multifaceted problem for why the turnover is so high. They are being overworked though,
dr abuzaid. You know, one of the things I think about when it comes to immigration policy because I've often been in hospitals where a lot of the nursing community are immigrants, folks who have come from other countries, and I do wonder as we look at what could potentially be, you know, really life threatening shortages if we don't have
the nursing community there in our health care system. You know, do we need to think about on a national level, federal level when it comes to immigration policy of allowing more in to potentially help the gaps that you are facing in your community is facing absolutely, I mean, the nursing shortage is the biggest labor shortage in the country, and of course other countries are having their own shortages as well, so it's not a full proof solution to
just bring them from from outside. However, you know, we've seen record low levels of immigration into the U s since two thousand sixteen, and we certainly don't have and it's not keeping up with the demand the health care system. So what's the what are the policy choices that need that you know, policymakers need to make in order to fix this. So it's this is not a new conversation that we're having by any means, And it's like, hello, we're just not getting the message here, right, So it's
gonna take multiple parties to address this. Government health care systems are educational systems, so on. So one thing I know for sure for health care systems in particular is that they are investing more and more in nurse career advancement UH and more flexible scheduling because those those two taxics in particular do encourage nurses to stay UH. And the number one reason why nurses are looking acuity job
is they're looking for more career advancement. And then the second most common reason is they're looking for more work life balance and and and a more flexible schedule. So the health systems that are adapting to that are are having a stronger retention. I also do wonder about in society. I have a sister who is a nurse. I mean we're talking, you know, decades ago, who also went out to becoming an engineer. But she also then went back to nursing and got a master's. But what I'm wondering
is do people not want to be nurses anymore? And how do you maybe change that? Sure? So, actually there's record levels of applicants to nursing schools, so there are there is a lot of demand from Americans who want to become nurses. Unfortunately we don't are nursing schools can't handle more capacity to train even more. Uh, they don't have enough faculty too, because the faculties, uh you know,
they're losing them as well. And then there's another ball in that happening after nursing school there aren't enough training programs at hospitals and health systems across the country to train large, large and larger cohorts of nursing um. And then we also have the retirement challenge. This is an at the average age of the US nursing workforce right
now is fifty two years old. Fortunately, we don't have an aging population here in the United States that will need long term care right And I'm obviously the infacetious here alert So listen, I think I have I'm hopeful for the future. I think market forces are really going to force them. Are are already forcing change and UH and and enforcing many many parties that talk to talk
about that a little of forces. So we're seeing hospitals and health systems invest more in nursing career advancement, both leadership training programs, cross training programs, specialization programs. We're also seeing um more and more flexibility on their schedules in addition to adding more part time roles, more we can shift options. Just to make you know, nursing a more sustainable profession with a with a very with a very busy life and the very and the various strains of
the of the job. What do nurses get paid? Uh, it varies by depending on the state, depending on the specialty. I'm in California right now, so they have the average nursing salary in California is a hundred and twenty dollars. Nationally the average is about eighty thou dollars. We're talking hard work here, though, I mean long days. UH, some flexibility when it comes to your schedule, right, but this is really tough work and that's why we see so
much turnover. Absolutely, and then also you know, the pandemic didn't help with that, with the with the strain and anxiety that comes with a job too. What are you seeing are you hearing from the nursing community a kind of what's going on in hospitals? I guess what I'm asking you is we talked a lot about COVID and the impact. Um what we're seeing. Are they seeing any kind of upticks or anything new that makes you a little bit worried about what's to come? Yeah, so we
are still seeing very high levels of stress and burnout. Uh. And then the other thing we're seeing those is you know, we we we have six hundred thousand nurses on our platforms. Over ten percent of the U S nursing workforce uses incredible health And we often ask why why are you leaving your job or why are you considering a new job? The number one reason why far as you're looking for career advancement. The number two is that are looking more
for more flexible scheduling. Number three is are trying to relocate or reduce their communite time. And then number four is more pay. And it's in that order. And so the hospitals and health systems that are putting together strategies, tactics, programs that address those reasons are the ones that are having the most success with hiring entertaining the talent. What do they end up going and doing when nurses leave
the industry. I actually don't have much, to be honest, I don't have a whole lot of data on that. I just know that in the next twelve months of nurses are considering leading the depression permanently. This just came to mind. But I've and this is just anecdotal, but I've spoken to a couple of people who are in
healthcare recently. One is an acupuncturist and others a physical therapist, and both of them have told me that throughout the pandemic, what they found is they don't necessarily have the tool kits that are required to deal with what people want right now. They end up feeling like they're therapists in many cases when they're spending time with patients. Are you hearing that from nurses, UM, we are. We're also seeing nurses going to completely other industries to including technology, you know,
including other types of healthcare professions. I guess what I'm saying is, like, what their training didn't set them up for the way that patients are interacting with them. UM, there's definitely more room for improvement in nurse training that that that's for sure. But that's a forever thing. That's you know, you can always get better. All Right, We're gonna leave it on that note. Listen, take care of
a good holiday season and stay safe. Always fun to check in with you, Dr Iman Abuse not only fun but really informative. She's co founder in chief executive officer of Incredible Health, joining us via zoom from Austin, Texas. You know, it's interesting truly. My sister, you know, years ago she had gone to college and wanted to be a nurse, and she went to a nursing like a
two year nursing school program that was straight through. And it's interesting the school has it was top in the country, but it has been recently torn down as part of it as part of a hospital system. So it's interesting what she has to say about that the training facilities are not necessarily there. And then you need, you know, part of the learning experience. A big part of it was you she would work in the hospital that was connected to it, and you were working with patients and
learning in real time. And if you don't have those hospital affiliations, it's just not the same thing. So who takes care of us if we can't find the nurses. Gosh, we're gonna go back to multigenerations. We're gonna need living together so that we can take care of one another. I look at you. You are so good luck finding room in my apartment.