Wherever there are shadows, there are people ready to kick out the darkness until it bleeds daylight. This is Bleeding Daylight with your host Rodney Olsen.
Welcome. Please connect with us on social media, you will find links at bleedingdaylight.net, where you'll also find many more Bleeding Daylight episodes. Please also share Bleeding Daylight with others. While today's guest is talking about a transformation in the lives of men, he also has great advice for the women who love them. This episode kicks the darkness for everyone.
Today's guest believes that one man can make a difference in the world, and that God is a God of second chances who wants to do extraordinary things in our otherwise ordinary lives. Tim Brown is the author of the book God and A Man: How God Can Use Any Man to Make a Difference. It's the story of how he learned that any man can be who God made him to be. Tim also publishes a podcast titled God and A
Man, and he's the founder of the men's movement ReUp, I'm pleased to welcome him to Bleeding Daylight today. Tim, thank you so much for your time.
Thank you, Rodney, it's an honor to be on. I appreciate the opportunity very much
Your message to men is that they can live a life of purpose a life that they were created to live. Now, in many ways, these things should be self evident. What do you think is gone so wrong in our world, that men no longer believe these things?
Well, I'm not sure we've got enough time to unpack most of that. I really believe that it boils down Rodney to a pretty simple deal. Most men have bought the lie, that they get their identity and their worth, as a man from the things they do. The people they know, and the things they accumulate materially, we kind of say it this way, at reup is that most men believe that what they do, what they have, and who
they know, is who they are. And it defines them. And unfortunately, we live in a world where we're humans make mistakes. And if a man has failed at his job, a marriage, any kind of relationship, financially, whatever it may be, or he's not been able to accumulate the things he thinks he should, comparing himself to other people, and so forth, if he's not able to do those things, or he's had some failures. And even his
successes sometimes make this happen as well, because they get caught up in that. And when we believe that's our identity, we don't really step into being who God made us to be. Because we don't think we can necessarily make a difference, we think, because we failed, or we're not living in the right neighborhood, or we haven't accumulated the same things the guys down the street have, that we're not
able to lead. And we're not able to really make a difference. Because we've let the enemy use a very much a lie to define who we are. If a man believes that what he does, who he knows, and the things he accumulates is who he is. And any of those are kind of out of whack in his life. Love, those guys will just kind of step into the corner into the shadows. And say you guys can play on without me. I'll be over here if
you need me. So and that's caused such a male leadership crisis that we call them endemic going on in our culture today. And it's affected homes, churches, communities, workplaces, schools. It just has a huge ripple effect.
As soon as we meet someone, the question is often Oh, what do you do? And as you say, that's, that's part of the issue is that it's what we do for a living. And that certainly starts to pinpoint. Well, if they do that, for a living, this is probably what they're able to accumulate in goods and the sorts of people that they know so all wrapped up in that seemingly innocent question, is this thing that continues to reinforce this for us, doesn't it?
Absolutely. The enemy's really not had a an original idea since the beginning. Because what he does works very well, especially with men. And he uses the opportunity to get men to question who they are so much, that it's amazing how simple it is for a man to buy that lie, and really just flounder in his everyday existence. And in hopes he gets through the day and can make it through the week and
hope nobody is relying too heavily on him because he doesn't think he can meet that expectation. We spend so much of our time trying to be successful at things that don't really matter. And for that reason, we look up when we're older in our life and go, Wow, okay, what happened, I've wasted my life. And now what do I do.
And when it comes down to it, the sorts of things that you're talking about the sorts of things that rehab does, and in the books that you write in the podcasts that you publish, it's not just theoretical, because you've been in many positions over many years, that puts you in touch with me and and so you're able to contrast what he said in the Scripture. And what you're seeing in front of you tell me about some of those instances where you've been in touch with men over many years.
My vocation, what I did for many years centered around selling men's clothing, a lot of that hat was not necessarily in a retail store setting, I worked with a company and then I started my own company, about 12 years ago that my son and another gentleman had kind of taken over now. But I would call on guys directly in their office or their home and deal with them one on one, and would sell them custom made
clothing suits, sport coats, shirt, you know, all those types of things. Not that there was a stereotype for this kind of client. But most of these men were successful men. Because this type of clothing was not inexpensive. It did require you they have the ability to spend that kind of money on that type of clothing. So I've dealt with a lot of successful men, guys that had platforms, influence professional
guys, doctors, attorneys, people who own their own companies. And in most of their communities, they were pretty significant men. And as I would deal with these men, Ronnie, I would go in there and meet with them, and we'd spend 20 minutes or so dealing with the clothing aspect. And then from there, it just seemed like most of the time, the conversations would turn to where these men were sharing, really all
the stuff in their life. Apparently, I had a sign on my forehead that said, if you've got problems, dump them here, I would leave lots of guys offices an hour later, after listening to these guys share all these intimate things about their life, and how they were unfulfilled. And they didn't have much of a relationship with their spouse and their kids didn't have much to do with them. And they didn't have any
friends. But they had all the stuff. They had been successful and most of the young guys in their community would want to be them. As that started to happen, I really started to sense that the Lord was trying to show me something, the more and more that happened, I started to see that there was an identity problem, that these men did not know their identity, and that they had really just bought a lie that what they
did, and the people they knew and the things they could accumulate was who they were. So that's what they spent all their time doing was trying to meet that standard. And along the way they missed out on being somebody that made a difference. I had one particular incident with a client, who was in his mid 60s at the time. I was in his office one day, and he told me that he was jealous of me. And this
guy was very prominent in this community. And as I said, a lot of young guys would want to be him from the outside looking in. And so for him to say that he was jealous of me and kind of caught me off guard. And as I talked to him about it, he shared, I had everything that he didn't. I had a great marriage and two boys that had tremendous respect for me. And I was involved in their life. And I had all these friends
and relationships and all this and he didn't. He started to weep. And then it really turned into more of a extremely emotional weeping to a point that I had to go over and hold him in my arms. While he cried. After a couple hours of praying with him and talking with him and just holding him. He finally left. I remember laying in the floor of my office, looking at the sky and just saying, Okay, Lord, I don't know
what you're trying to say to me. But whatever it takes for me not to be that guy when I'm 60 something years old, man, and whatever it takes to help as many other men not be that man in his well, that really kind of started me on this journey of what's missing. What are what are these men really looking for? And searching for? And how do we help them with that? The main thing that came out of that was that we had an identity
problem. men did not know their identity, especially if they were Jesus following man. They had no idea what their true identity in Christ was. That was the number one thing the enemy was using against them and convincing men that one man Can't make a difference. And that's so far from the truth, when we really unpack it biblically.
And it occurs to me that there's a real struggle going on externally and internally, because externally, men are trying to live up to what the world tells them is success. But as they do that, they they're actually trying to live up to the facade of success that they've built. And so there must be this incredible internal conflict of this is how I present to people. But I know inside, that's not actually me, is that what you're finding with men?
I think men are really good at wearing a lot of different masks externally, to make people think about them a certain way, what I was behind closed doors with these men, what they were sharing with me was the internal part of it. I mean, that's really what that boils down to around that's a great way to describe what I was seeing what the Lord was showing me was the internal part of this, that was really the
bigger struggle. So what could we do to address that problem? That's kind of really where reup came from this movement that we started, and that we're trying to help churches and individual men and young man just, you know, really deal with that on a continual basis and, and get men to really start investing in each other, and helping each other learn these identity principles that are so important, if we're really ever going to be the man God created us to be. And
you're really having to turn around something that is so ingrained in society, and in fact, so ingrained in our psyche that this is the way we should be heading. How did you start to turn that around for others?
Obviously, I had that happen to myself first, I was very fortunate that I had a man to disciple me to this day, I still have no idea why he did it. And why he gave me all the time he did, he saw something in me that I didn't see apparently, he poured into me taught me the word taught me the truth that I needed to know, as a man, the Lord used him. And he showed me the value of men pouring
their life into each other. So that's kind of where it started. And then, as I was starting to do that with other men, and we started to create some context that men could step into, we didn't know what we were doing. And we were just a bunch of guys, we felt like, there was more, and there was something missing. And we wanted to go on a journey of kind of finding out what that was. So we thought, probably
the best model to use would be Jesus, we kind of use that model of what he did with 12. Guys. And then sometimes he broke him off from 12 to three or four, educated them in the Father and powered them in the father encouraged them in the father built relationship with them. So we thought, okay, let's see if we can go about creating something like that and see if men might react and what we learned was, that's exactly
what men were looking for. But we just weren't doing as a church. And then men overall, weren't creating that context where men could come together in a smaller setting. You know, Dr. Tim Elmore says, more intentional time with fewer people has a greater Kingdom impact. Again, that's kind of the model Jesus used. And so we thought, well, maybe we could just start creating something that would give men what we felt
like they were looking for him. What I was finding from the men was they needed friends. Most men didn't have any friends. And then we found data that proves that the George Barna Research shows that only 5% of Christian men over the age of 35 say they even have one best friend. I think since COVID, that number probably has gone down. And we were found finding it because of that most men didn't have any
accountability in their life either. The other thing was we found that men wanted Christian men wanted to be in God's word. But they didn't really know how to do it in a very intentional way that would help teach them what they really needed to learn not just read something
from the from the one year Chronological Bible, which is great. Not just read that and move on, but something that really applied to their life, that was dealing with some pain in their life, that hotspot, if we could create that setting for that to happen and give them the tools and the resources they needed to individually grow their relationship, and then come together with some other men. Talk
about it, build friendships, have accountability, blow all the dust off and look at what that is. That's discipleship. We found that that's what men really wanted. But unfortunately, they weren't finding it in the way that they wanted it. So we just created something we thought they were looking for. Doesn't mean it's the answer every time. But we've had 1000s of men react to it. What we've learned is
that Men don't know this is what they're looking for, until they see it. And because they're not seeing a lot of it, they don't know that's what they're looking for. But when they see it, they jump all over it. So that's how we started the journey, almost 15 years ago now. And again, it hadn't been rocket science, we just kind of based off of Jesus his model, and the Lord has done some really cool things.
I think one of the keys that you mentioned there is that man who all those years back saw something in you that you didn't even see and came alongside you. I'm wondering how complex that can be when even someone coming alongside us and saying, Hey, I see something in you. If we're living that facade that society has taught us to live, do we even believe that? Because we're still saying, Well, no, you're
seeing the facade. So how can you actually see something in me? How do we actually get men to understand it's like, no, I see deeper than that. I know that you've got faults, because we all do. But I still see that there's something in you, I still believe that there's something in you that can change the world around you,
Man. That's a great question. I hope I can answer it in a way that makes sense and communicate some hope for men to do that. And to be a part of that, I guess, really, right. And where I like to start is, even if we're living that facade, I think one of the things we've really got to help men understand is, every man is God's man. Now that sounds pretty simple. It sounds just like a
blanket statement. But we really think that's got to be the starting point. Using statements like the man you will someday be, you are now becoming, if the guy's living enough of that identity, facade, that false identity, when you recognize that every man is God. To me, that's where it starts. When I said that that guy saw something in me that I didn't see. I'm not saying it was some spectacular thing that only I
had. I just think he saw in me that I could be God's man. If I understood I was God's man. But what's interesting is that every man is God's man. Because they were made in God's image. It's really been amazing to me, just the simplicity of just reminding me in getting in their ear as much as you can. How you are God's man, you are God's man. And the man that you're someday gonna be, you are now becoming. So
right now matters. When you hear that statement that the man you're someday gonna be you're now becoming, does that encourage you? Or does that scare you? Most men will say, well, it scares me. Because I don't even like who I am right now. The fact that that's who I'm going to become, that scares me even more, so that kind of gets the guy's attention. I want to help convince this guy right here, that
there's something about him that God can use. I believe it starts with in his ear all the time. You are God's man, you are God's man, you are God's man. And the demand your someday going to be you're now becoming so now. Now, let's do something about that. Because the enemy convinces them and puts in their ear most days. No, you're not God's man. I mean, you can't even barely get through the day. You
can't even pay your bills, you know, you're not you're not leaving your home, you know, all these lies. That's another reason the subtitle of my book where it says how God can use any man to make a difference. I think one of the other problems is, is we have bought the lie that the enemy has sold us. One man can't make a difference anymore. That's so far from the truth. I mean, especially when we go scripturally
and look at just ordinary men, that God used one individual man, to make a huge difference in the lives of so many people. And so we got to start believing that again. I
imagine that there's men listening at the moment thinking, well, that is something that I want in my life, but not everyone that is listening is in the US. So they can all connect in with reamping in the way that some can. That there are people listening right now from right around the world. What is the first step that those men need to take? If this sort of thing is resonating with them?
Well, the good thing is we realized a couple years ago that if we were really going to be impactful with this, that we had to set it up where any man could access what we're talking about, from anywhere. And obviously that takes technology. The Lord dropped in our lap a little over two years ago with gentleman, one of the smartest human beings I've ever met, and he, he really bought into what the Lord had
called us to do. And he said, I want to build you a technology platform that will make this accessible to anybody across the world at any time. help you build a opportunity to get These men, what they're looking for, we created a platform called Re up or up dot impact, I m
PAC T dot app, a PP re up dot impact dot app. And you can go on there individually, our signature study that we've created for men, which is called identity, don't you know who you are, is there it's a daily format that we've put together for you to get in God's word for him to teach you your identity. But then also, if you want to do it with a group of men, whether it be in person, getting some guys together
in your home, at a restaurant, your church, whatever it may be, we call that a fire team of men. And we'd like it to be about six to eight men, or if you want to do it virtually, and do the same thing. And we've created an entire structure for you to use. When you
come together each time, it's a weekly structure. We've created all the resources for you to use inside those meetings. And then all the Scripture studies that you need to be doing on an individual basis, with your team that you come together each week and work through and talk through. So you can do it from anywhere at any time, you can join that platform that explains to you how to access everything, we'll
even communicate with you if you reach out to us, and help you in any way we can. And we've just released this, having been a year ago now, and really starting to get some traction behind it.
I'm very aware that there will be women listening at the moment, and they're thinking, I'd love to get the men in my life involved in something like this. But if we know anything about men, we know that we're not likely to just be cajoled into something. So how do the women listening, gently bring their men to an understanding that here is something that I think will be a value for you.
What you got some great questions will be Rodney that I don't get a lot. You're correct. I mean, men don't like to be pushed, especially mother smiles in certain areas, especially when it comes to something like this. But one of the places they might start, they can go to our website, re up men.com. And they can purchase my god and a man book and give it to their husband. And we have seen that book be a
tremendous on ramp to men deciding, hey, you know what, I need to figure out my identity. I need to make sure what happened to this man I just read doesn't happen to me. And I can stop the trajectory of my life and go in a different way. That would probably be no that kind of sounds self promoting. But we've just seen that be so effective with so many men, whether a wife buys it for a guy or a buddy of his reads it and
gives it buys another copy for a guy. We've just seen the Lord really use that as a way to really encourage and cause men to go, Okay, I need to go on this journey of pursuing God's heart.
It must be incredibly satisfying for you, when the men that you're working alongside start to have that mind shift of what success really is all about. When they start to get that aha moment. And they realize I don't have to keep striving for the things the world tells me I'm striving for. Tell me about that.
When the light bulb goes off, that you are who God says you are, that you are justified, you're redeemed, you're glorified, you're you're holy, you're blameless, you're the righteousness of God Himself. You're truly a child of God. He sees you as a completed work in your person, because he took care of your problem, which before you met Jesus, your problem wasn't sin. It was who you were, that was
causing you to sin that you got from Adam, that you didn't sign up for, but you got it. Every person was in Adams gene pool when he sinned, and we all inherited that nature, that sinful nature and we were separated from God, we were a child of wrath as Ephesians two three tells us and
understanding then once we give our life to Christ, and we become this completed work in his eyes, and that what we do doesn't change that. In other words, if I had a meter, person meter, when I gave my life to Christ, my person meter went to 100. It'll never be 101 It will never be 99 in God's eyes, it's 100. And that was my problem, who I was, and my behavior as I live out, My life won't change in his eyes who I am.
Well, you said, Well, that sounds like a license to sin to him. I can just do whatever I want to Well, no, because the second part of that statement is what I do. Once I learn these truths, what I do Who doesn't change who I am, but who I am automatically impacts what I do,
when I really know who I am. When that light bulb goes off, and guys understand that for the first time in their life, it's amazing. The emotion that comes from that, and the number of men that have said, Man, why didn't somebody teach me that 20 years ago when I gave my life to Jesus, and I've been out here, working my butt off for him, trying to earn all this, that he gave me. And I've been miserable.
And nobody wants to what I got, when I really understand I'm a child of God, and what that really means and and what I do doesn't change that in his eyes. But who I am in Him, as I continue to go on this journey of pursuing him, it changes my life, I mean, the ripple effect every what I do. So then I turn around, and I want to invest in some young men, and help them learn the same thing, which is called discipleship, which
is what the church has been called to do. I mean, the number of wives that will tell us, man, it's like an alien has invaded my husband's body. I mean, he's become this unbelievable husband. My kids just can't get over the difference in the men. His friends and his people in his workplace are just like, man, what happened to this guy? What's interesting, Ronnie is people asked me so all 10 This journey you've
been on, they've read my book, they see all the health issues. I've been through all the stuff I've been through different things, dealing with man like I have all these years. They're like, so man, tell us some unbelievable revelations and truths that the Lord has taught you. There's bound to just be these, this deep, these deep, deep truths. And I'm gonna Well, I hate to disappoint you. But really, it's just one. And
it sounds pretty basic. And it's this. God is who He says He is. What more do we really need to know, in a deep manner that he truly is who He says He is?
Tim, I'm sure there are people who want to get in touch, who wants to get connected with what you're doing? What is the easiest way for people to find you.
Both of those URLs I gave you a while ago, the reup men.com The reup dot impact dot app, or man, I'd love to if you just want to shoot me an email, I'd be honored and anyway I can help and that's Tim T I am at re up men are up M en.com.
I will put links in the show notes at bleedingdaylight.net so that people can find you easily. Tim, thank you so much for sharing some of your journey with us and the opportunities that you're having to shift the idea of success in the minds of men to reset them to what they were originally designed to be. Really appreciate your time and thanks for being on Bleeding Daylight today.
Rodney, it was an honor and if we can help any man become God's man, and who God made them to be. We'll give it everything we got.
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