Wherever there are shadows, there are people ready to kick out the darkness until it bleeds daylight. This is Bleeding Daylight with your host Rodney Olsen.
Welcome. You'll find links to connect with us on social media at bleedingdaylight.net, along with many more Bleeding Daylight episodes. Please share Bleeding Daylight with others. Do you consider yourself to be creative? Today's guest believes we are all creative, and that our creativity can connect us to God. Today's guest is a multi award winning artist who has just released the book God the Artist: Revealing God's Creative Side Through Pottery.
At the age of 14 Morgan McCarver encountered a major turning point in her life, a health issue that seemed like it was derailing everything for her as a teenager turned into a new life direction. It's an honor to have her join me as a guest on Bleeding Daylight today. Morgan, thank you so much for your time.
Hi, thank you so much for having me.
I want to go back to the years before that turning point that I mentioned, what was life like for you?
Well, I have always looked for a creative outlet. So before that turning point, I was dancing competitively. I was still in school. And I really just had a passion for dancing, especially Irish step dancing, actually, which is a very niche form of dancing, but
I'm in the United States, and so there were classes offered, and I really just found my passion there. I could express myself creatively in that way, and I had a lot of friends that I look forward to seeing, and it was a really great experience.
So really, you were very active, and this dancing was your outlet for that, and both physically but also creatively you were able to take part in that. So what happened along the way that caused that turning point for you?
When I was 14 years old, I had scoliosis spinal fusion surgery, and I knew this was coming for about three years, I had been diagnosed with scoliosis earlier, I had seen different doctors and gotten different opinions. And so I had been wearing a back brace to correct my spinal curvature. But after the three years, the doctors realized the brace wasn't really holding it in place anymore. And my
curve was only increasing by degrees, I had three different curves in my back kind of making an S curve shape with my spine. And it was starting to affect my organs, my lungs, I didn't have full capacity for breathing. And basically my torso was starting to be contorted. And it was only going to get worse as I got older. And the surgery was only going to get harder as I got older. And at that point, the
doctors decided the best thing for me would be to have the spinal fusion surgery. And my parents thought that was a wise decision. I of course, being a 14 year old was against it, because I knew that would end my active life. But looking back on it 12 plus years later, I know it was the right decision. And I'm thankful for them for making that decision. But in the moment, I was very frustrated
because I knew I wasn't going to be able to dance during that year long recovery process. And that was really hard for me at that age as an active teenager. Yeah,
Help me understand what that felt like for you, because at that age, we're all trying to fit in, we've got our interests and we've got our friend group and this threatened to to shut all of that down for you, and when you're just trying to find your way in life at that age. What did it mean for you?
Thankfully, my friends and my classmates at school everyone was very kind my teachers, but it was a big change. Regardless, everything from taking my work home and homeschooling for several weeks while I was recovering, to not being able to dance for a year to having special accommodations in the classroom. For instance, I wasn't able to carry more than 10 pounds. So all of those heavy textbooks that
you have, as a middle schooler, high schooler, I couldn't carry them around. And so I would have books in the classroom for me or classmates would carry those textbooks for me. And they were very gracious about that. But as someone who wants to be independent, that's just kind of the natural state of a teenager. You want to do it for yourself finding that I wasn't able to and I wasn't allowed to. It was really
challenging for me mentally and I don't think I was really prepared for that going. I knew there'd be a lot of physical things that I would need to I overcome and work through and really get back to where I was. But I didn't really understand what that was going to look like mentally. I think it kind of caught me off guard at that age,
You mentioned that you couldn't dance for a year. What was it like returning to dance after that year? Did you really have to relearn everything now that your body was quite different? Did you have to relearn things or did it start to come back to you naturally?
No, I really had to relearn things. My hips were uneven because of my spine. And so it was everything from basically relearning how to walk again. Because my hips were evened out, and different things physically with my surgery, it was a whole new ballgame of learning to walk again, baby steps, quite literally. And getting back to where I was, I actually was an inch and a half taller after the surgery.
That's how much my spine was twisted and compacted. And when they straightened it out, I grew taller, which was crazy. When I returned to dance after that year, it was not the same. Some of my friends had graduated, that just happens, you know, when you're dancing, you have older friends, the friend group wasn't exactly the same. And of course, they had progressed. So I was kind of playing catch up, I was
learning the new steps, we got new steps every year. And so I needed to relearn those and I wasn't physically as flexible, of course. So really trying to get back to where I was, was really challenging, especially on top of all of the mental things. Now I was even more self conscious about my body than an average teenager would be. And there were things like that, that were affecting me performing was a lot
more difficult than it had been before then just thinking about people watching me. So it was very hard going back to it. And I realized what I had had there, it was beautiful. But coming back, it just wasn't the same. And most of that was because I had changed mentally physically, that just wasn't where my passion was anymore. And it wasn't something that I was necessarily good at. And so
therefore I didn't really enjoy doing it because I saw how far I had regressed during that year long recovery. And that was really hard to work through at the time.
This threw you into a different passion. Tell me how that came about.
I was looking for something to do some kind of creative outlet during that year long recovery, because I was just getting so bored. And my parents, that was a rule in our house, you weren't allowed to be bored. There's only so many things you can come up with. There's only so many books you can read, before you start to lose your mind. So during that recovery process, my mom signed me up for
just a kid's pottery camp. Over the summer, it was like five day class or something. I really fell in love with the clay, it was just so flexible and malleable. And I was able to get that flexibility with the clay that I couldn't get out of my physical body at that time. And it's so hands on and so personal because you're working directly with the clay with your bare hands. There's no paintbrush in the way or
computer in the way you're directly touching that clay. That kind of intimate, artistic creative experience was just really the bond I needed at that time. And I just really kept signing up for more and more classes. I loved it so much.
So where did it lead from there? You now we know that you're working in that industry? And you're working with that as a business. But how did it start to develop at that point.
It started relatively slowly. My high school it was a small school. So it didn't necessarily offer pottery classes, it was more focusing on college prep. Art wasn't really at the top of the list. And I didn't really have a lot of options to take ceramics classes except for a cultural center, downtown where I grew up. And I would take those classes in the evenings they were
offered once a week. And it was essentially for adults, the retirees would come and they drink their wine and throw their pottery after work. And that was pretty much the only class that I could sign up for. So I did. And it really was a whole new friend group in a way a completely
unexpected friend group of people who were at least 30 years older than me, and so much more experienced than me. They just came alongside of me and really helped me understand pottery and learning more about the craft and camaraderie that comes with being in a community studio. That was just such a beautiful time to just learn things that I really enjoyed that and I started looking for schools that
offered ceramics. I discovered Anderson University and Anderson, South Carolina. They're the South Carolina School of the Arts, and they're one of the few schools who still offer a degree in ceramics. That's actually where I ended up going to college. I loved it so much. I got my degree there. As I say the rest is history. I just keep finding myself in different versions of the art world. I've worked for a
studio Potter for a time I worked for a ceramics supply distributor, I've worked retail for them. I taught private ceramics lessons in multiple different settings. And I just keep finding myself in the ceramics world. And it's actually what brought me to the state I'm in now, I actually moved states because of it to work for a potter a couple of years ago, as a studio assistant. And that was just such a great
experience. But all of these things and just seeing the different facets of the ceramics world, it's just so amazing to see the community. Because I've heard there's not always that type of community in the art world. But the ceramics community is so giving and sharing and helpful and everyone wants to share their glaze recipes, or share different techniques and different things that will help other Potter's
and it's just so beautiful, to recognize that all of our work is different. In a sense, yes, we are all competing for the same customers, but not really because our styles are so different. And that's really the beautiful thing about ceramics is you can have such a community that is so similar, but we're also different in what we create. It really encourages inspiration amongst us.
I mentioned in the introduction, that you've written a book, and I want to explore that a whole lot more in just a while. But the title is God the artists, so obviously, there's an interconnection between your puffery and your faith, tell me about your faith journey.
I was raised Baptist, I grew up in a Baptist church in South Carolina, my parents took me to church, it was your average testimony, so to speak, until I had my surgery. And that's really when my faith started to become real to me, because it was a
scary experience that I didn't want to go through. And my prayer life really grew during that time, just asking God really to take away that surgery, I didn't want to have it. If that wasn't going to be the case, then recognizing that God is sovereign, and God is in control and asking him to help me through that situation, if that's what had to be done. Obviously, it had to be done. My faith really was strengthened
during that time. Anderson University is a Christian school, I really, really wanted to go to a Christian school. At that school, my
professors were great about incorporating faith into our art. And always recognizing that God is the artist and focusing on how our faith journey is impacting our art, because art is so personal, it can't not be personal, because we are making it and it's so much about our feelings or who we are in the moment or what our inspiration is our concepts, all of that whether we know it or not as tying back into
ourselves, all of us have a soul and all of us have an eternal home somewhere. And so thinking about that, as we're creating our work, that really got me thinking that I wanted to read a devotion book about that. I really couldn't find what I was looking for. But I knew that there were a lot of pottery references in the Bible. And so at that point, when I graduated in 2019, the Holy Spirit just put it on
my heart to start reading the Bible all of the way through and start collecting these verses. And maybe this would be something that I could write, I started reading, it took me three years, I was going at my own pace. I wasn't really following any kind of guideline, but I had never read through the Bible all the way through. And I had been a Christian since I was about seven or eight years old. And so that really was
convicting for me to actually read God's word that he gave to us and has preserved for hundreds of 1000s of years. Of course, I need to read this book that I'm basing my whole life off of. I really realized all of the pottery references and all of the beauty and artistry that is in the Bible, Old and New Testaments, and I started making notes. And that's really how God the Artist, the book came about. It was multiple
years down the road, my first manuscript and 2019 was really rough, and I tried to get it published. And now I'm really thankful that the publisher did not publish it. They said that I could have a ghostwriter. But I felt like I needed more experience. And during that time, I really got so much more experience through so many different outlets. And that's kind of how God the artist is existing today.
As you look through the Scriptures, and you see those many references, as you say, back to pottery. Does that give you a sense of grounding there that what you're working in is not some new form of art expression, but it's something that is as old as time and yet at the same time, it's something that is fresh every time you take to creating a new piece?
Yeah, it's so comforting. I'm such a history buff too. So I love researching as you can go just the most random things, but it is really comforting. And that all of these verses, it's almost like now that I have this ceramics background, and I can read these verses from a Christian standpoint and understand what they mean. But also from a ceramic standpoint and understand truly the
message and the symbolism behind these verses. It's just so beautiful that God hides so many little nuggets of wisdom or secrets, if you will, or whatever it is for us to discover and uncover as we go through this. Because of course, God knows everything about pottery, that's just a given. He created pottery, and he knows everything. So of course, he knows all of these things, to really read the Bible and
understand it for myself and see, like, I know exactly what he's talking about here. I know exactly what that's like. And to recognize,
because of my ceramics background, I can interpret these verses in my spiritual life so much more. And even in my spiritual and ceramics practices, as well, when I'm in the studio, not all the time, but there'll be something that happens and I'll hear the Holy Spirit, like give me some spiritual words of wisdom based on what's happening in the studio, like this is so similar to my life, because I am the clay in
my spiritual walk, and God is the potter, but I'm in the studio, I'm the potter and the literal clay is the clay. And so seeing these relationships, and comparing the two of them, it has just made my spiritual walk with God so much richer.
There is a richness that comes from understanding a verse going all the way back to when it was written. And I guess that that's what you've been able to do to understand the original intent of the words that are there because you understand pottery? Has that helped you to explain that to others when some might just skipped over a verse about pottery thinking, oh, yeah, it's someone making something to help them understand that the forming and the way that pottery actually works?
Yes, that is my goal for anyone who's willing to listen to me ramble about pottery. I love to talk about anything ceramics. And that's my goal in the book God, the artists, I really take it verse by verse, chapter by chapter going through the different
elements of ceramics and what that looks like, starting from the very beginnings of what is clay, and where does clay come from. And you can actually dig pottery clay, like ceramic clay, straight from the ground, it depends on your location, and you have to do some processing, to get it to be food safe and fireable and everything. But I have dug wild clay. And it's just amazing to have that type of connection, of
seeing this is directly from the earth, I'm digging up the earth, and I'm turning it into something that's going to be beautiful. And recognizing that's exactly what God did. With Adam, He created him from dust, understanding all of the gravity and the depth to those verses, it just means so much more to me. And it does help me explain my ceramics and my faith backgrounds to people. For instance, for those
of my friends who are in the studio who aren't Christians, it does help me explain my faith better in that way. And for my Christian friends who don't necessarily understand the depth of ceramics, they're able to see that relationship. Viewing God as the Potter is really beautiful.
I feel that in many branches of the church, we've lost a connection to art. When we go back through centuries, we see art created by Christians that really inform our faith and speak to our faith. And yet, so many times we seem to have lost that. Is that something that you're passionate about in bringing that sense of creation back in obviously not usurping God's creation? But actually reflecting that through up?
Yeah, that's interesting to bring up I do know, there are some cultures like oceanic cultures who do view art, so spiritually, that in their type of religion, they're seeing artists as the closest to their version of God. And I think that's so interesting. But you're right in today's Western culture, it is a very selfish culture. And so I think most artists view themselves as gods, so to
speak, and that's where their work is coming from. It's all about them and their feelings. Of course, speaking very broadly, this isn't for all artists out there. But I do think it is important to recognize where our gifts and talents come from. I always say that doesn't necessarily mean painting bible verses on a canvas. I think that honoring God through our talents can be so much more than that. And it's
really about the motive and the intentionality behind creating your body of work. And of course, the reverence to God and giving you this ability and really focusing on the beauty and the artistry that he has given you. So my work is a lot of flowers, a lot of wildflowers that I'm familiar with in the Carolinas, I grew up in South Carolina and I live in North Carolina now. So these are flowers that you would just see
on the road or in a wooded area that hasn't really been cultivated. They're just so special to me, because it's something that God created these beautiful flowers. And no gardener is taking care of them. And they're not being nurtured in any way, or cultivated or cared for. They aren't watered on a daily basis, they're not weeded, but they're blooming for no one else. But God, God put them there. And no
one might ever see them, but God sees them. And I think that's just so beautiful about our Christian walks as well, recognizing that, at the end of the day, we need to bring glory to God. Of course, we need to evangelize and share the faith and talk to others and socialize. And of course, those flowers get seen by passers by, and they might never be appreciated, they're probably never going to be in a wedding bouquet or
anything like that. But it's the small things, it's the little joys of seeing that wildflower on my drive to work in the morning. And that just makes my day. And recognizing that that can be the same in our lives, too.
We often use music as a creative endeavor within the church to worship as we should it is right throughout Scripture, the singing of sacred songs of of sums. And we see that right throughout. But do you think that there's space for us to use other artistic endeavors such as painting or sculpture or the use of ceramics as a way of worship in our churches?
That's a great question. And I think there is I think there's a space for all forms of art to be a form of worship. And I dive into this, and God, the artists, the book as well. And worshipping can look like so many different things. If it's something that God has given you the talents and skills to do, and it brings you joy in doing it, then that is something from God. And so just by
fulfilling that calling and doing that thing, you are honoring and worshipping God in that way and bringing him glory. And I definitely think that pottery is a big component in that, especially since there are so many references to that in the Bible, the church I serve in with the youth, they're going to start offering ceramics classes. And so I really look forward to introducing ceramics to students who
are about my age when I had that spinal fusion surgery. And I just think that's such a beautiful gift that God has given me the ability to offer these classes and train the students in this way, that at the time, that was the exact outlet I needed, that God gave me to really involve my quality of life and something that was more than just sitting. And it really, really helped me come out of a dark place
during that time. Just using that same exact medium, in a church setting with the same age students that I was, and being able to serve God in that way. I man, I'm just looking so much forward to that experience. And I'm really excited about that. But there are so many other ways to to worship God. And I talked about this as well. And one of those is simply selling my work and tithing appropriately. Also, not
being in the studio on Sundays, I try really hard to keep the Sabbath holy. I purposefully set up my studio practice to keep the Sabbath holy, as much as possible in respect to God and honoring him in that way. And then also, like I mentioned, with the tithing, just recognizing first fruits, God allowed these amazing customers to come and buy my work and support me in this way. And giving that first fruit back to God
and recognizing that everything comes from Him, He gives and takes away and he allowed does cash flow to happen. He allowed the sales to happen. He's allowing my work to be spread within the community, and thanking him for that and worshipping Him in that way.
The book is God the artist revealing God's creative side through pottery. You hinted before that there's a devotional element to it so helped me understand if if someone is going to pick up this book, what are they going to encounter?
First, they're going to encounter just the aspects of creativity, and God's creativity. That's the first verb ever used in Genesis, in the start of the Bible. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. So right from the start, God is making things and he's making beautiful things. And he's using imagination. Not only that, but he made us in His image, he made all of humanity in his own
image, which means by default, if God is creative, and we are made in God's image, then we all have to be creative in some capacity. And I say that doesn't mean that we are all the best or the most creative or the best at everything we do are the most skilled at this one thing. But that's not what God's saying. God's saying that we're all creative. Recognizing that in your own life, it's just such a powerful truth to
recognize. I have imagination within me and God gave me this imagination inside of me, and I can use this for His glory. So we start off very broad. From there we dive more into pottery and more into Bible verses about pottery as God the artist goes along. So like I mentioned, we start with the very basics with clay and tools, and we move forward into wheel throwing and techniques of different aspects of pottery and
firing glazing, different elements like that. But I say you don't have to be a Christian to read God, the artist, and you also don't have to be a potter, I kind of go through both of those things as we go along. But the beauty is, you're not just reading the story, you are involved
in this process as well, because at the end of each chapter, I've incorporated a creativity challenge. And it's open ended enough that you can use whichever medium you would like to really enhance and encourage your own creativity and your own creative walk with God, and really
connecting in your relationship with God through your own creative and artistic abilities. And so my hope is for those who maybe haven't found their creative outlets yet or know what it is, but they don't make time for it, or they don't think they're good enough, or they put it on the sidelines, to really recognize that as a true gift from God. And it's a gift that he wants you to use not just to have and have knowledge of,
but to actually utilize for His kingdom. And that's my encouragement with the readers that you grow in your faith and your creativity as you move through the book.
I love that about helping people find their creativity, because one of the things that really annoys me, is when I hear someone say, but I'm not creative. There's this sense that there are creative people in there or not. And yet, as you say, if we're created, if we're designed and built in the image of God, our Father, and He is creative, then there is creativity within us, we need to find that how often do you encounter people who are absolutely convinced that they are just not creative?
All the time, it frustrates me as well, pretty much every time I do a show, someone will come up to me and tell me to my face, that they're not creative. And it makes me so sad, because to me, it means that they're not seeing themselves as God sees them. They have so much more in their lives to discover. I know I'm not the best Potter, I'm not the most famous Potter, I don't sell the most
pieces. I just know that about myself. But that doesn't disqualify me from being a potter, I don't want it to take away my joy of making beautiful things, I can still make beautiful things and not be the best. I think part of it is just this culture of striving to be the best. And you have to be the top of your game and everyone can't be at the top. And just recognizing that that's not what God is saying, God
is wanting you to work through the process. Part of the beauty of art is that creative process, and you kind of lose that a little bit when you're just focusing on the final product. And if yours is better or worse than somebody else's, you're taking away from the entire process of the creating, and the joy you find through that process. And so I really just challenge people don't think of it as I'm not good, or I'm not as good. Think of it as the process and how much I enjoy making.
I know that it's a cliche, but we often talk about our worship being for an audience of one, how helpful is it when we start to think my creativity is not about creating a piece to put in front of others. But my creativity is a way that I can worship the Father.
That's a great point, especially with social media culture, there's a lot of artists who make what sells or make what's popular right now. And they don't truly have their own voice in the art world. And I've seen this so many times, it's really hard because your work means so much more to you when it comes from a place of joy and a place of your own imagination and all of my flowers that I put on
my pieces, I hand drew all of that I have that intimate connection with those drawings. Yes, I looked at the flowers for reference, these are God's flowers. I didn't invent some amazing flower on my own. But I interpreted it in a way that is truly my own. I didn't go with what is trendy at the moment. And so my work really does become all that more personal. My relationship with my work becomes all that more
personal as well. And that helps me view my relationship with God, because He created every single aspect of my life, every single physical attribute characteristic mental thing, everything about me, God intimately created with me and so I'm able to see that and recognize that because I'm seeing that as I'm creating work when I'm the potter and I understand my intimate relationship with the clay
and with my pieces that I'm making. It helps me so much more understand God's love for me as him being the potter and me being just this little piece of clay that doesn't look like much, but understanding that God has really taken a consideration and made a decision about every single aspect of my life, it's just, it's just mind blowing. Honestly,
God the Artist: Revealing God's Creative Side Through Pottery is a book, whether you're interested in pottery or not, whether you consider yourself to be creative or not, it's going to take you on a journey that will draw you closer to God and see his artistry in the world. And in you, Morgan, if people are interested in getting a copy of the book, or connecting with you, where is the easiest place for people to find you?
The easiest place would be my website, and it's just my name Morgan mccarver.com. And from there, you can buy a copy of God the artist, you can shop my pottery on my fair site and Etsy site, you can connect with me on social media, you can send me emails or sign up through my website, I'd love to see some pictures of the creativity challenges you guys complete, and I'm just really looking forward to connect with you pretty much just start at my website and you can go from there.
I will put links in the show notes at bleedingdaylight.net so that people can find that easily. Morgan it has been an absolute delight to talk with you today. Thank you so much for your time and for being on Bleeding Daylight.
Thank you so much for having me. This has been such an enjoyable conversation.
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