Wherever there are shadows, there are people ready to kick at the darkness until it bleeds daylight. This is Bleeding Daylight with your host, Rodney Olsen. Welcome, I'm so pleased you're listening to today's episode. Hundreds more uplifting episodes are ready for you right now at bleedingdaylight.net. Are you a morning person? My guest today thinks that the right kind of early start can change your life for the better and that anyone can become a morning person.
Today we'll talk about getting the most out of every day and discuss the idea of abundance. What if abundance isn't about amassing an excess of what the rest of the world is chasing? What if it can't be measured on a scale of wealth? We'll get the conversation started in a moment. I'm thrilled to have Michael Klassen joining me today. Michael is the co-founder and host of the 5am podcast where he inspires people to transform their mornings and their lives.
With his background in broadcast television and a genuine passion for helping others develop an abundance mindset, Michael has built something really special, a community of early risers who are serious about intentional living and personal growth. What I love about Michael's approach is how practical and down to earth it is. He's not just talking theory, he's sharing real tools that help people thrive. Michael, welcome to Bleeding Daylight. Oh, it's a delight to be here.
Thank you for having me. For most people, 5am is a really good time to be asleep. So why would we forego our morning rest to get our day started earlier? Good question. It's also a great name for a podcast. So there's a little bit there. I don't wake up every morning at 5am. However, when we build the foundation for our day, I like to think that we own our day as opposed to the day owning us. I grew up on a farm. We didn't have curfews. We had responsibilities the next morning.
I got to, maybe out of necessity or through punishment, enjoy early mornings. And that's just kind of stuck with me. Like I said, it comes back to that idea of if we want to own our day, we get up at the start of it. We can set our intentions and our foundations and really choose that. It's not come what may. It's I'm coming through. I got a plan. I'm going to execute.
It occurs to me that generally once a year, and that's usually at the start of the year, leading into the 1st of January, most people set their expectations for the year. They set New Year's resolutions or New Year's goals. And that's the last we ever hear about it. We know that only about 8% make it to the end of the year, having met their resolutions with about 80% of resolutions being dumped within the first couple of weeks of a brand new year. But what you're suggesting is different.
It's actually resetting every day, isn't it? That's right. We know that if we keep doing the same things, we're going to get the same results. And if we're tired of the results we're getting, we can't blame the results. We have to blame the effort that we're putting into it. So it has been said, if we do uncommon things, we'll get uncommon results. And if we do common things, we'll get common results.
When we can own our day and know what our day is going to look like, we can have the results that we're hoping for. And like you say, it's each and every day. So we get days off, days of leisure, but days of tasks and accomplishment and maybe some setbacks. I think, well, we've all done the New Year's resolutions. One of the TV stations I used to work at was a five-minute drive from my gym that I loved going to.
Went there for probably five and a half years while I was employed at that TV station. And you would see this influx of people come in January and it'd be like, man, he's using my machine. I'm here every week, a few times a week, and that new guy's using my machine. The joke was kind of like, give it a few weeks. It's fine. He'll be gone. Resolutions. It seems to be the case, doesn't it, that people will jump into those things and without those regular check-in points if we haven't planned well.
And I suppose that's the big thing. Whether we're making our plans once a year or whether we're making them every day, the same thing is true if we don't properly plan. We can have wishes, but if we don't properly plan, that'll never happen. So how important is the planning?
I would say along with the planning is accountability because we can make our plans and we need to make our plans because if we go back to that farming analogy and my parents tasking us with chores because they had their own chores, we had a plan and it was kind of repetitive because it was the same sheep getting a new bale of hay and the same cow that was being milked, the same weeds, the same area is the garden.
So those plans are really important because if we have a plan and we can work the plan, we know what we've accomplished and we know that we've moved closer to our goals. Without that plan, we're waking up in a frantic mess. The alarm's going off. We know we have to get to a job that we don't like or a cubicle we do not want to sit in.
We don't really have a plan other than in two weeks my boss is going to pay me and then I'm going to pay my bills and I'm going to go out with the guys or I'm going to buy that new video game. So we don't really have a plan. It's just whatever comes is going to come and we're going to face it as opposed to having a plan. J.D. Rockefeller had a 100-year plan for every dollar that his company made.
So money would come in and maybe he'd have a dollar in his pocket and his children would come and say, Papa, let's go get some ice cream. I see you got a dollar there and he would say, no, I'm sorry. We can't use this dollar for ice cream because I've got a hundred-year plan for this and something else is going to come along and we have money called something else is coming along and that's the plan.
How do we balance that planning, that structure that we absolutely need with, as you mentioned, times to have leisure? Because we don't want to feel like we're on the clock 24 hours a day, seven days a week. How do we make that balance? We know that rest is important. How do we include that in a structured week? As far as structuring the day and structuring the week, we know that we need eight hours of sleep. I start with sleep.
Coming from a Christian background and experience, you hear about the Sabbath rest and you find out that their days actually started at sundown. It's kind of weird for us. We think days start five, six, seven, eleven, noon, wherever. You have this idea that your day actually starts with rest. We can backward engineer our schedule in a sense of knowing we've got to have a great rest if we're going to own our day.
We've got to have some pep in our step if we're going to motivate people, have success, and have a positive mental attitude. As we're looking at our week, looking at our month, let's take it for the week. We love to have that one day of rest. We start our Sunday as a day of rest, community. We'll go to church. We'll have some fun. We'll do things that we enjoy, which as you get older is definitely a nap in the afternoon.
We really have to be vigilant and diligent with our body, our time, our talent, our treasures, our schedule. That means we have to make sure that we're taking care of ourselves, our temple, if you will. We have to schedule those things because if we don't schedule them, they don't happen. That's like every component of life. If it's scheduled, just like J.D. Rockefeller had a hundred-year plan for his dollar, we could have a 24-hour plan for our body.
The power of no and the power of yes actually comes into this because we get to say maybe no to things that don't fit within our 24-hour structure. I realize this could be a little overwhelming for people, but we're kind of doing this in a sense already. We could look at the 24 hours and say, I don't know, I'm just going to wing it. Certainly many people do. Winging it can be fun, but then I feel like we don't get anything done if we wing it and we don't have that objections met.
I realize a lot of this probably comes from my background in programming because we had to account for every second of the shows that we put out. We have 30 frames per second in video. There's 30 pieces of information every second that we have to account for and we can't have dead air or black screens. That's not going to work. It's really important that we schedule our rest times, our work times, our food times and our leisure times and times at the gym too.
There's a seismic shift in what you mentioned there of our days starting with rest because so often our opinion is that at the end of a busy day we collapse in a heap and I just need rest to get over the day, rather than if we look at it the other way around, I rest because I need to be prepared for what I've got coming up tomorrow. Yes, that's right.
I used to have some unpleasant customers and sometimes my consolation to myself working on this project is I'm going to get to go home and have supper and have a rest. Like you say, that seismic shift of saying no, we're actually going to start our day when the sun goes down and we're going to start it with family. We're going to start it with some food.
We're going to start it with some rest and then we're going to be prepared to face those negative Nancy's or some unpleasant or some positive work experiences. Maybe somebody doesn't have work and they're looking for work and they're thinking how much payment do I have to pound before I can finally start getting a paycheck.
If we can order our days correctly so that we're fueled, we're rested, we're ready to go, to me, that seems like we have more tools in our tool belt to face what comes our way. You're not just talking about those elements of the day that make us more productive. You're talking about things that give us more of an abundant life. For instance, gratitude. Talk to me about how important gratitude is because that normally we wouldn't associate with productivity and yet you find it so essential.
Yes. Gratitude is just such a critical skill to cultivate. It's not a default setting for any of us. For those who have been a child or have children, one of those things that we have to do is teach them to share. I'm still not convinced after all these years that sharing is caring, but the reason I brought that up with gratitude is that it's a learned behavior. We get to choose how we look at circumstances.
In my opinion with gratitude, it is going to be a force stronger than the other things that come into my life that come to buffet me. Perhaps optimism. That's one of the characteristics that I have that bosses have said, you're way too optimistic. I don't know what's wrong with you, Klassen, but there's a problem here. With gratitude, it forces us to choose a mindset that's positive, that is not going to be moved by the negative forces that come against us.
It forces us to look at what is good and the positives that we have and how we can overcome the obstacles that are really trying to push against us and maybe knock us to the mat a little bit. Instead, we can stand firm with the idea that regardless of what comes, we're going to have gratitude. We're going to be thankful. There's always something that we can find that we can be thankful for. We might get some bad news. I get it. Everybody gets bad news. We all have those mailboxes.
They still send us letters or we get emails that are unpleasant, but we can still find something to be grateful for, to be happy about, and to choose joy. One of the things that I've loved to have through my adult life is a notebook and to be able to write things down and to journal things and then go back and look at those things. Sometimes we're having a bad day and I'm like running out. I've already went through my five things that I'm grateful for.
You go back to that journal and you find something that can give you some cheer, give you a little bit of wind in your sails, and help you find something so that our mindset will help us not hinder us as we move through our day. A lot of the things that you're talking about really are biblical principles. You talk about abundance, and of course, Scripture promises us an abundant life, not just a life lived, but a life of abundance.
And we're talking about gratitude, which again is another biblical concept. And when people look at these things, they can see them and use them just as principles to live life by, but obviously the faith itself is important. How does your faith impact the way that you operate your life? It's multifaceted. It is the foundation that we stand on.
It almost feels to me like the air that we breathe, what we allow into our body, and then it's actually the main ingredient of what we put out into the world. It has a positive impact on every component of our life and why we do what we do. The opportunities, the character, and the life that we can build with like-minded people that comes from having this Christian faith and the principles of Jesus Christ.
When you're starting your life out and you're in your teens or your twenties or your thirties, you just have no idea of how important a component that faith is. I live in the Northern Hemisphere, so we get to make snowballs when we get snow. And it is that snowball effect is that it just builds upon itself, and it's got this exponential impact on our lives. As well as your own principles that you bring to your 5AM podcast, the ideas that come from many of the guests that you've had.
Have there been some guests that you've been chatting to, and it's caused a bit of a shift for you that there's been something that they've spoken about that you've thought, I really need to put that into practice? Yes, definitely. My wife and I, we've been doing the audiovisual part of 5AM podcast for just over a year now, and I'm definitely a different person now than when we started this. Not only for personal study and internal things, but hearing stories of triumph and perseverance.
Laura Broughton was a guest we had. She was nine years old when she was diagnosed with this disease that was in her eyes, and she was going to go blind. The way that she has lived her life through that, and when she was on 5AM podcast, we spent a bunch of time talking about the guide dogs. There's another example of a fellow that I had on Successful Life working in finance and business consulting industries. He was diagnosed with stage four cancer. He had to make a choice.
Was he going to thrive during this life, even with what some people would call a death sentence, or was he going to keep going? We all face some sort of obstacle or pitfall. We get those hits, and we get the misses, and we get the wins, and we get the losses. One of the things that I really took away from the guests that I've had has been obstacles are not in the way. They are the way. I had one other guest. She talked about how she learned that fear was not an enemy.
Fear was actually a friend because fear comes, and it actually tells you and highlights a deficiency. Huh. I guess I need to work on that. If I worked on that, and it wasn't an issue, I wouldn't be fearful right now. Those are definitely some great takeaways that I've had personally from the guests that I've chatted with.
There's a common theme there of resilience, but we need to have resilience that's based in something that has a reason behind it rather than just, well, I'll try and live another day. There has to be something further than that. There has to be vision for going forward. If someone is listening and they think, I'm not really sure what my vision is going forward. I don't know really where my life is headed. How would you go about saying, well, here's how to set up a vision for you moving forward?
Wow. This is such an important question because, number one, the Bible tells us without a vision, people perish. How do we get the vision? The first step, I think personally, is realizing that I need something to get up in the morning for, not just a paycheck, not just because I have chores to do, not just because I can't stay in bed any longer and the light's coming in and it's bothering me and I might as well get up because I've got nothing else to do. We've all been there.
We've all been in that spot where, well, I'm kind of bored now with sleeping. It's kind of done. I should probably get up, maybe wander over to the coffee pot, see if I have any grounds left. With the vision, just that idea of, I have no idea what to do with my life. Everybody goes through those high school years and you get into that adulthood and now you're supposed to know a bunch of stuff and you're supposed to know the direction you're headed.
And it sounds to me like you're saying, Michael, let's do some, not vision casting, but talk about why vision is so important. And it really sets us on our trajectory. Now, I love sailing. My maternal grandfather, he loved boating. He grew up sailing with his family in the Netherlands, more specifically Friesland. We loved being on the boat together, loved it. But if we didn't have a plan, so we didn't have a vision for where we were going to go, well, we might not even get out of the harbor.
And part of that vision is knowing we're going to unlash the boat from the dock. And we're going to have this vision that it's Sunday afternoon and the sun is shining and it's a beautiful summer day. And we're going to take the boat out and we're just going to, well, make memories. So that's kind of part of the vision is we're going to go out there. We're going to learn some skills. We're going to make some memories. We're going to spend some time together.
My grandfather is going to talk to me about his experience. So that's in a micro way. We had a vision for that Sunday and we knew that if we were together and it was sunny and it was summer, we were going to go. Now, some people might think that's a little oversimplified, but I want to get into the sailing part. When you're on a sailboat, you have to know where you're going to go and you have to know what the winds are going to be like. And is this going to cooperate?
And if we're on the ocean, what are the tides going to do to our vision? Some people might be listening and they might be a little intimidated by this idea of I've got to get a vision, but it's actually as simple as just taking the next step, write it down and make it plain. I was talking about the notebooks.
That's certainly how I've been able to fine tune my vision over the years as journaling and writing things down and talks about in the Bible to write the vision and make it plain so that the runners can run with the tablets. And if you're going to send something by courier and you call up the courier and say, I've got a package for you, well, where's it going? I don't know. What's in the package? I don't know.
I have no idea, but that's okay because we can just take one step, find a piece of paper, write down what kind of message or where you think you'd like to be in five or 10 years, get some other ideas down or talk to maybe a minister or somebody that you respect and appreciate. That gives those little steps into something bigger and kind of like going back to the sailboat and being on the water with my grandfather, which was great memories.
My grandfather was someone that I knew, loved, and respected. I could talk to him. And in that idea of finding your vision, find somebody like that, that you can talk to and ask questions about, about the future. And if they don't give you good answers, go find somebody else. It seems to me that that idea of sailing is a great analogy because a lot of people expect life to be plain sailing, as they say, that they expect that life is going to be without the storms.
And yet in sailing, I'm sure that the most exhilarating times with your grandfather were the times you had to battle against the wind or when, you know, the waves were whipped up a little, you needed to decide when it was safe to go out on the water, when it was better to leave the boat in the harbour. Yes. You mentioned before about people who don't want to go through the difficulties and yet that is life.
How important is it for us to realise we are going to have struggles, we are going to have storms, that life will never be plain sailing? And that's great, actually. That's what we want. That's how we build our skills. Man, how many times has it been where the water looks okay? Then you get out on a big lake or you get out onto the ocean and you realise, well, it was okay back there. It's not okay now. So now you're, okay, now what do we do?
You can't really run around the boat waving your arms saying, what do we do? What do we do? The component of being able to put that one foot in front of the other and to keep going and to know that these obstacles are actually going to strengthen me. I loved going to the gym. I still, I love the exercise. I like to get out on my bicycle, on my road bike. We live close to the Rocky Mountains. We get an awful lot of wind around here.
It's not uncommon for our wind to be 20 kilometres or 80 kilometres and wind gusts and things like that. The reason I bring that up is because that's resistance and it's resistance training. And we must have these obstacles in our life. We must have this resistance that comes against us because that's how we build our muscles. When I started going to this gym, let's say six and a half years ago, something like that, I was new to the city. I didn't know a lot of people.
I knew that I needed to find a gym to go to. This one happened to be close to work and it was a great place. And I met this guy who was probably 15 years younger than me. He'd spent a lot of time on diet and exercise and gym time. And he was built large. We would hang out. We would chat. Sometimes we'd be at the gym at the same time. I was able to go kind of in the afternoons when it was a little bit quieter. I was watching what he was doing on this one particular piece of equipment.
And I was like, man, that guy's like stacking the plates. But he didn't do that from day one. And I thought, you know what? I'm not as big and muscular as this guy is, but I bet you if I worked at it, I could probably do at least half of the plates that he's doing. So after he left, I tried half the plates he was doing, and I couldn't like budge these things much at all. Okay, well that's got to change.
So I started and I found some adversity on the seated chest press that I could actually handle. And as time went by, I realized I could handle more adversity and I could stack more plates on. That not only helped me physically, but that sure helped me mentally as well, knowing that I can actually put more adversity onto this machine and I can deal with it. And that's a great metaphor for life. We live in an instant world. We want instant results.
So as you're saying there, we don't want to take the time as that young man did to build up to where he can now lift enormous weights. And you're working towards that. You realize I need to start small. How do we change that mindset? How do we start to say it's little things that are going to get me towards the bigger goal? Yes. Like you mentioned, we certainly don't see that in popular culture. The world's favorite radio station is WIIFM, what's in it for me?
And protesters could say, what do we want? And when do we want it? Well, we want it right now. We got hot and ready pizza. We can get all manner of unhealthy foods delivered to us. You don't even have to get out of the car. You can actually drive to the restaurant and they will give you some stuff that really none of us should be eating, but it is made to taste delicious. And we think it's cheap, but it's really expensive in the long run. And we don't even have to leave the vehicle.
And then you think if you really want to go and have a great meal, you've realized that you've got to do a little bit of work and you're going to have to maybe get in your car and then out of your car. And you're probably going to have been put some effort into your look and appearance and your wardrobe because you're actually going to go to a nice restaurant where they're going to give you something substantial and beneficial to your body.
And you're going to have to put yourself out there and leave your comfort zone. And then you're going to go and sit down and it's actually going to take you a while. There's a pizza place in Chicago that I absolutely love. Many years ago when I was after high school, late teens, early twenties, somewhere in there was like Chicago's best pizza was this Gino's East.
But man, you go in there and it's kind of an event because it's going to take you 45 minutes to actually get the pizza after you've ordered it. But you know, it's worth the wait. It was an event and you were going there and you were going to be patient and you were going to wait, but boy, were you going to be rewarded. And there's a reason why we have to shift from that. I want it now.
And what's in it for me and put myself at the center of attention and expect that I don't have to put any effort in and I don't have to be patient. All those things that we don't really like, or that, you know, the child comes out of the womb, they're screaming for attention and they become the center of it, but we have to train them to not scream, especially in public.
There's a lot of training involved in this world that we find ourselves in and knowing that adversity and patience and those character building qualities, like the fruits of the spirit that the Bible talks about, man, those are really the premium treasures of this world. We have to learn certain behaviors. Is getting up early one of those behaviors? Oh, 100%. 5am podcast speaks about getting up early, whether it's 5am or whether it's a different time, it's still getting up early.
What if someone says to you, yeah, but I'm not a morning person. How do I set these plans in place if I'm not a morning person? Oh, yes. I get that often. I'm not a morning person. And I say, well, you could be. Absolutely. It could be. It just comes with what do we really want? Do we want to keep doing the common things and get the common results? Or do we want to do uncommon things and get uncommon results?
A younger friend of mine, I'm friends with him and his dad and the son and I were chatting and he said, Michael, I'm really trying to, I'm really trying to change my mindset to actually get up in the morning at 535 o'clock somewhere in there. And here's what I want to do. I want to get up because I want to do X, Y, and Z. But he said, I'm just really struggling with it. And, you know, it's a learned behavior. It's not the default of our world.
And it's something that even the body struggles with. It's too warm. It's too comfortable. I don't want, it's like, I don't want to leave the womb. We've got the bedroom. We've got the womb. Man, it's nice and warm in here. Well, you know, that baby's coming. And so with learning or wanting to change up your life and have some uncommon positive results in your life, you know that you've got to make changes. I assure you that those early mornings become so valuable.
It's kind of like my parents used to put us through this thing. Well, what do you want? Do you want this or do you want this? And why do you want this? Or why do you want this? So why do you want to, why do you want to stay in bed? Are you avoiding something? Is there something not great going on in your life? And is that kind of why you're going to bed late? Because you've got too much on your mind and you're going to have trouble sleeping.
And you know that you have to get up for work and you're probably going to sleep in and your morning's going to be frantic. And then your whole day just owns you and beats you like a rented mule. There's an alternative to that. And it's dealing with the things that might be keeping us up at night, or maybe finding some scripture verses or some prayer time. That's going to help us deal with those things that cause us anxiety about the unknown. And you know, the unknown, it hasn't happened yet.
It's not even there. And as the Stoic philosophers will tell us, our fears are always greater in our mind than in reality. There's a lot that goes into knowing when we want to get up, and that determines when we go to bed. And that's that power of being able to say no and the power of being able to say yes. And that we want to transform what our days look like. And that starts with a great early morning.
So often we see podcasts, we read blogs, we see things in the news that are all about us becoming super successful, being multi-millionaires and having that kind of life. 5am podcast certainly can lead towards that. But it's really about people just learning new life skills, good life skills for whatever kind of life we have.
How important is it for us to realize that no matter where we are, no matter what our vision is, there's structure that is going to make life not just easier, but it's going to make it more fulfilling. First off, I will say those riches have a deceitfulness about them. When we think of abundance, and we think of the flashy marketing and the pinstripes on the suits and the Instagram-ready ladies and men and cars, whether they're rented or bought, the cars have a price that's been paid for them.
Whether the people are as glamorous or unglamorous as we might see them or we don't see them. I think for the most part, if we think of the Tinseltown famous stars, the big screen stars that are not so big screen anymore, you know, most of them we would probably not invite into our house to visit with our children. They're not the most upstanding, quality people. They can't hold their relationships together. They have pharmaceutical problems. Maybe they got eating disorders.
They got maybe some mental problems. I'm really opening up a can of worms here. But what I'm saying is that when we have the aids to daily living, let's say, of not only the scriptures, but of good practices of what is actually going to provide us and our families with abundance of all good things for the long term, we still need a basis for how we live our life and who we want to be. And so then we want to live in truth and we want what people see to be the reality.
And some of us, myself included, we need a lot of work on different components of our life. There's so much marketing that wants to basically just take our money, our hard-earned money. So if the government doesn't get it in taxes, you know, there's businesses and there's interests and there's charities that would love, you know, to lighten and empty our bank accounts and lighten our wallets. And so we need to walk in wisdom.
One of the very important things that I know will help everyone, it's helped me and I recommend it all the time. There's usually 30 or 31 days in a month. We know we've got the outlier February, but there's a book in the Bible called Proverbs and there is a chapter for every day of the month. That book of Proverbs, being able to read one chapter. So whatever today it is on your calendar, if it's the 16th or if it's the 7th, you read that chapter in Proverbs for the day.
And I assure you, ladies and gentlemen, that will help you to not only see why things might not be working for you or why the things that are working for you are actually working for you. It seems to me that a big part of what you do is challenging what we believe to be abundance, because we spoke about the scripture telling us that we are to have an abundant life. And yet so often we are fooled into believing that that abundance means all the riches, all the stuff.
And what you're saying is that's not abundance at all. Right. I liked Bob Marley's music. I saw an interview of him and somebody was asking Bob Marley if he was rich, if he was a rich man. And he said, well, what do you mean by that? And he said, well, you know, all these other musicians and stars, they have all this money. And he said, oh, no, I don't have those kinds of riches. I have much better riches. There's a book in the Bible called John.
That's in the gospels, that first part of the New Testament. There's chapter 10 in there, which is a phenomenal chapter all the way through. But there's a verse 10. It's part of a longer discussion that Jesus is having with the people. And he says, the enemy, so your enemy comes only to steal, kill and destroy. That's his only assignment. He's got three of them, stealing, killing, destroying. But I've come that you might have life and you might have it abundantly or to the full.
One of the things my wife and I love doing, even though it's the dead of winter where we live, we've already got seed packets and we're already planning our garden for next year. And we have some beautiful rose bushes and flowers around our house. And I got to tell you, there's one little white rose bush that's backed by the grapevines on like the north side of our house. It's not an abandoned area at all. It's a great area. But this little rose shrub, it's kind of a globe shaped plant.
And that thing is prolific. Like we could not stop it from putting out blooms. And to me, that's this picture of abundance. We could give that plant a whole bunch of adversity with the clippers and prune it till the cows come home. And there's nothing but a little stump left. And I assure you that rose bush will be back even more prolific than when we started hacking away at it with our clippers.
And so this is that idea of abundance that yeah, there might be stealing, killing and destroying going on around you. That plant, if we started persecuting it with the shears, we'd be like, man, this is stealing, killing and destroying. I'll show you abundance, pal. And that's the idea of regardless of the adversity that might come away, the difficulties that come our way, we can say, well, what kingdom are we going to live in? Are we going to live in the stealing, killing and destroying?
Are we going to live in abundance? And so if we live in abundance, that means that we can help others. Dollar bills are least valuable on the scale of all the wonderful things that we can have with a spouse and family and children and neighbors and friends. Like so much more to that abundance than the dollars and cents. Michael, I know that people are going to want that kind of abundance.
So I do have a link to 5 a.m. podcast in the show notes at bleedingdaylight.net so that people can get onto that and start to find some of those tools that are just going to help them in planning their day, in planning their life towards the vision that they have set up. So I want to say, Michael, thank you so much for your time today on Bleeding Daylight. It's been a delight. Oh, my pleasure. I loved it. Thank you so much for having me on. Thank you for listening to Bleeding Daylight.
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