Wherever there are shadows, there are people ready to kick out the darkness until it bleeds daylight. This is Bleeding Daylight with your host Rodney Olsen.
Welcome. Please share Bleeding Daylight episodes through social media and word of mouth so that more people can kick against the darkness. Our social media links are at bleedingdaylight.net We like to celebrate when someone reaches the other side of pain and trauma, but can victory coexist with the pain? Can we be thankful in the midst of the trauma? My guest today can help answer those questions.
Today's guest has endured chronic pain, depression and paralyzing anxiety. While her suffering has continued. She remembers a day that she made a choice to live differently. Lauren Rose is a blogger and she hosts the podcast it hurts to Mom, I'm very pleased to have her join me on Bleeding Daylight today. Lauren, thank you so much for your time.
Thank you for having me. I'm excited.
Many people face a moment or even a series of moments when they realize that their experience of life so far is not normal or not what others are experiencing. And we only know what we've been living to that point at Lauren. I believe that your early life had you believing that ongoing pain and anxiety were normal. Tell me about those early years.
So I remember having anxiety and maybe even depression since I was about eight, I started having chronic pain in the form of migraines and severe tension headaches when I was about 15. But I never told my parents were mentioned it because I didn't realize that those things weren't normal. I just figured, oh, everybody has pain, everybody feels anxious all the time. Everybody is tired all the time. Even if
they sleep for, you know, 12 hours. I didn't have the kind of relationship with my parents where we had open communication. I was always taught to just keep my emotions and my opinions and my preferences, and my ideas all to myself. So that's exactly what I did. I just kept it all to myself until I was about 22. And I just realized that this isn't normal. This pain I'm having not everybody else has it. Just a day came when
I was trying to get off work early. And my boss said no, because I had an excruciating migraine and I was really having trouble. I just realized that, you know, nobody's going to take care of me except for me. So I finally went and saw a doctor and you know, got the diagnoses of migraines and severe muscle tension headaches. And so that was just kind of a start of me, taking care of myself and getting diagnoses for things that I just decided weren't as normal as I thought that they were,
Did it surprise the doctor that you had lived with that sort of pain? And that sort of anxiety and all the rest that goes with that, that you had lived with that for so long? Without seeking a diagnosis?
Yes, I've had several doctors just kind of look at me like, Well, why didn't you ever tell your parents? And my answer is, I don't know. It never occurred to me to tell my parents, it was just natural for me to just live with it and deal with it on my own. You know, we didn't have a close relationship. So I just thought I had to deal with everything by myself. Did the
doctors come to any realization of what's actually behind this? What's been causing this since you're a young girl.
So that took a long time to kind of figure out all the puzzle pieces. I've got another kind of headache called occipital neuralgia, which comes from the occipital nerves in the back of the head. So that was another piece and then I found out I have TMJ disorder and my jaw. So that was another piece. But what really stood out to me was when I was 35, I went into a pain recovery program. It was four weeks
inpatient in a hospital, and I just stayed there for 28 days. Because my migraines had gotten so bad that I couldn't live like that anymore. I had to do something different. That took me about three weeks to finally get my headaches under control. But what I learned there was that experts believe between 50 and 80% of physical pain is actually from suppressed emotional pain. I experienced verbal abuse when I was growing
up from my dad, and then I experienced in my late teens, early 20s sexual abuse and physical abuse and of course, emotional abuse comes with all that too. I had just suppressed all of that. I never got help for any of it. I decided okay, once it's over It's over, I'm just going to live my life now, I didn't realize that it was actually hurting my body. And I think manifesting as physical chronic pain and that, at that
time, it was manifesting as these bad headaches. And so that was really interesting to me. And that's kind of when I started to really take charge of my past trauma and my suppressed emotions, and get help for that.
And I imagine it wasn't just the pain that you're experiencing as a child that you thought was normal. You probably thought that having a father being abusive towards you was also a normal thing, because you didn't get to live in anyone else's home, you were living in your home. And that's what happened there.
Right? I didn't know that not all dads told their children that they could kill themselves and, you know, called a stupid and got angry at everything. I didn't realize that not all men had anger issues at the time.
You're talking about this underlying reason for the pain, being that emotional key. But I suppose there's got to be a balance between what is physical and what is emotional, so that we know that we can come and solve some of the issues that we're facing if we deal with the deep emotional hurts. But where do you draw the line? How do you know what is actually a physical reason for that pain? And what is the emotional reason?
I think that's something I'm still working on. I had a lady on my podcast, who healed herself of 12 years of just debilitating back pain, through things like yoga, and mindfulness and inner child work, and hers was all from abuse as well. So hers was completely emotional. I'm still working through mine, I mean, I do have autoimmune disease, which causes my joints to be inflamed. I do have fibromyalgia which
causes nerve and muscle pain. And I've got degeneration in my joints as well. So I do have physiological reasons to have pain. But I feel like the trauma and the suppressed emotions are exacerbating the pain that maybe it wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have the emotional piece to it.
You've got this ongoing pain, and you're starting to deal with it. Where does it go from there? How do you start to deal with those sorts of issues?
Well, when my body pain started the arthritis and even the fibromyalgia, I ended up just in a really deep depression, I had to stop working because my spinal pain was just so bad. I was only 36 years old. When that happened, and are 37 I felt like I had lost my purpose in life. I mean, yes, I'd lost a lot of functionality. I had lost my job, my career, I felt like I'd lost part of my identity. But the biggest piece was I
felt like I'd lost a purpose in life when I couldn't contribute to the workforce anymore. So I thought, Okay, well, maybe my purpose in life is to take care of my family right now. But I was in so much pain, I couldn't even do a good job of that. I really was in a deep depression for about two years. One day, I was just looking at my daughter, she was five. I mean, I was in bed all the time, I was both hurting, and in bed
and also depressed and in bed. And I just realized, I didn't want to leave that kind of legacy for my daughter, where she remembered me as the mom who was always depressed and hurting, in pain, and sad in bed all the time. I didn't know what I was going to do. But I knew I had to do something different. That was just a moment in time that just really sticks out to me. It wasn't about me anymore is about my
daughter, how she was going to remember me and how she might even turn out to be as a mother. And I didn't want to ruin our relationship by just being depressed and in pain and in bed all the time. The first thing I did was join a women's bible study at my church. We were reading this book by Lisa Turk Hurst who is amazing. She's an amazing author. Her book was called It's not supposed to be this way. And I felt like
that just described my life perfectly. This is not what I had been working for, not what I had been planning. It's not supposed to be like this. I got really two things out of that Bible study. One, there was a lady who runs a nonprofit called grateful gratitude. And it's all about just being grateful all the time, every single day. When I was going to these Bible studies, I was just so depressed. I was crying all the time. I was
just an emotional mess. She gave me this little wooden heart and told me every single night you know, put it up to my heart and just think of three things that I'm grateful for just you know, thank God for three things. And at first it was kind of hard but then I really started getting deep. You know, one of the ones that really stands out to me is was, at the time, it was really painful for me to walk, the spinal pain in
my low back was excruciating to walk. So I didn't walk very often I kind of planned when I had to get up and I would take care of everything I needed to do right then in the one trip, so I didn't have to get up again. And I remember just thinking God that even though it hurt me to walk, I still had legs, and I could walk. So I really started to change my mindset and my perspective, from everything that I had lost and
everything I could do, to everything I still had, and everything I still could do. And that was huge for me, I still do that at least once a day, just three things. I'm grateful for it in some days, I don't feel like doing it, but I do it anyway, it's just an intentional practice. The second thing that I really got out of that Bible study was that God could take what I felt was a completely broken life, and make something
new and beautiful out of it. That's kind of where my blog and my podcast started. Because I started to connect with people online in different forums that had chronic pain or had anxiety, depression or trauma. And I really felt joy in encouraging them giving, giving them advice, and helping them feel like they're not alone, because they're not, I mean, one out of five people has chronic pain, as 20% of the world's
population, that's a lot of people. My chronic pain journey, like a lot of people's has been very lonely. My purpose in life right now, at least at this in this stage of my life, I feel like is to encourage other people specifically with chronic pain, but also with you know, mental illness and previous trauma those come up to,
I'm interested in that whole topic of being grateful, and that intentional daily gratitude that you practice, because it would be difficult from the start, if all you've known is a difficult life if you've known that pain. And that pain really reminds you that, hey, things aren't as they should be. How difficult was it to start practicing that the Bible tells us to give thanks in all
circumstances, and we can look at that and say, Yeah, but you don't know my circumstances. How difficult was it on those first few days when you started to practice this intentionally?
At first, I was pretty surface level, I was thinking God for electricity, and just kind of first world things. It was hard because I wasn't very grateful at the time. But I had to really dig deep and look for it and look for things I really was thankful for. But the thing about gratitude in our brains is that we can change our neurotransmitters in our brain, as we know our brains are have neuroplasticity. So the
more we think of positive things, the more our brains will automatically think positively. That's the mindset shift that had to happen in my brain, instead of thinking so negatively about my life, and about the world and my circumstances, I had to retrain my brain to really focus on all the things I had, I mean, a wonderful husband and amazing daughter, great family support system, a God who just loves me
through all my circumstances and wants to see me happy and successful. So over time, it got better. But definitely at first, it was really difficult because I wasn't all that grateful. In my in my heart,
I know that we do look for those good things in our life to be grateful for so your husband, your daughter, and a variety of things that are good. But have you ever been able to get to that point to thank God for the pain for those difficult times that you've gone through which now enable you to help others? Have you been able to get to that point?
I think I have. I did a Bible study with my small group at church. It's actually a group I started for people with chronic pain. And we recently did this book called The Uninvited companion. And it's all about the difficult circumstances in life and how God is there to walk with us through them, and how he can grow us and strengthen us even in the most difficult circumstances. That really helped change my perspective as
well. So that I knew that God was shaping me through these difficult circumstances. And even though I'm not necessarily happy that I have chronic pain, I can be thankful that God loves me so much that he is putting me through something to mature me and to grow me and to bring me closer to him.
There's obviously a lot to be grateful for as well in being able to serve others that must give you a great deal of satisfaction when you reach out in that study group or through your blog or through the podcast. And the feedback that you get, there must be a lot of gratitude for that.
Definitely. I mean, I hear from the ladies in my group to Lady specifically told me that they had been praying for a group like I had started. And I hear, you know, from the ladies and from people, you know, because of my podcasts, just that they feel really encouraged. And it helps them feel like they're not alone. And we can come to my small group and be completely authentic. And one thing about having, you
know, chronic pain and chronic illnesses is we put on a happy face for the world, because we don't want to look like we're just complaining all the time. But to have a space where we can come and it just be ourselves and really talk about what's going on and have people that really understand and can get it. It's just been a blessing, not just for me, but for for everybody. But I just I feel completely blessed and honored
that I have these outlets that can help people because you know, helping people and kindness are some of my core values. So I feel like I've got renewed purpose in life, and that God is actually using my pain for a purpose. And that's one reason that I can be grateful for my chronic pain because I feel like God is using it.
Oftentimes when we're going through difficulties we, we want answers, we want God to tell us why have you been through that? And is that a continuing thing? Or have you come to terms to some degree, we're saying, Okay, God, you're not telling me the reason. But I'll sit with that for now.
Yeah, the two years that I was in a deep depression, I was definitely in the why the undivided companion talks about moving from the why question to the how question, instead of why is this happening to me? God, how can I walk well with you, in this circumstance, that's really where I am. Now, if I'm going to have to deal with this for now, I don't know if this is a lifetime situation or not. But if I have to deal with
this, for now, I at least want to use it from good. And I feel like since God is doing that I can be content where I am, even with the you know, physical discomfort and the pain.
You mentioned a couple of things you mentioned the intentional daily gratitude. But you also mentioned something that you got from the book that you read as part of that Bible study was realizing that God can take a broken life and make something beautiful out of it. And most of the time, when we think of something beautiful being made out of a life, we think of all our troubles, all our trials and
everything going away. And yet, you're talking about something beautiful coming, despite the circumstances Tell me about that?
Well, I mean, I don't have a choice. But to live with the pain, I do have a choice about how I'm going to think about it, and how what my attitude is going to be and what I'm going to do with it, I feel like that God has made something beautiful out of it, with these outlets that I have that help other people, would I rather not have chronic pain and have a career and live like a normal person? Sure, that would be my
preference. But Paul never got answers to the thorn in his flesh. And I, at least in this lifetime, probably won't get answers to mine, except that maybe the purpose of my physical pain is to help others. And if that's the case, then I'm actually pretty happy with that. Because one thing I loved about having a job was helping other people. That's what I'm doing now, just in a completely different way.
I'm interested in how your daughter is taking all this on board, because you mentioned that that was really a pivotal moment for you in seeing your daughter and saying, I don't want her growing up believing that this is normal, that mum in bed all the time in pain all the time is normal. And that's just what life is like. So how has your change, of circumstance of attitude of starting to learn to live in gratitude and, and seeing the beauty in your own life? How has that affected your daughter,
so I'm really blessed that my daughter, she's 10 Now is a very nurturing, loving, compassionate, empathetic girl. She really is good about seeing you know how hard I tried to be there for her. I went from laying in bed all the time to if she wanted to play a board game, I would lay on the couch and she would move all the pieces and I would just be there spending the quality time with her. That's really all she
wants is for mom to spend some quality time with her sometimes. And if I can only do that for 20 minutes at a time. She's actually really good with that. She gets disappointed sometimes of course, when I can't play with her or when I can't do something she wants to do from hurting too bad to take her to the park. or something. But generally, she's really good at seeing how hard I tried to be there for her.
You mentioned that a lot of physical pain that we feel anxiety and oftentimes depression comes from the emotions within us. And the things that we have endured early on, are you continuing on a journey to deal with those things? And, and how is that going for you? Are you able to work through those things and, and come to terms with what happened as as difficult it was back then?
I am. So there's really four things that I'm working on. I'm working on trauma, with a trauma therapist, and working on suppressed emotions in therapy and just not continuing that practice of suppressing my emotions. I was grieving in those two years, I was depressed, what I was actually doing was I was in a grieving process. And for I'm working on forgiveness, forgiveness of people who have hurt me badly. The
forgiveness is probably the hardest part. I haven't completely gotten there with some people, but I'm working through it, I have forgiven my dad, he passed away two years ago, and I was able to forgive him before he died. So that brought me a lot of peace, that I didn't watch a man that I hated, passed away. There was a man that I could see, you know, was growing old, and I could have compassion for not compassion for the
things that he did instead, but for compassion for him as as a dying man. But I am still working on forgiveness of the other people. I mean, it's a process it's going to take take years, I'm sure, but I feel like I will get there one day because I'm trying to be proactive about it.
And it is interesting that forgiveness is a process because oftentimes people talk about forgiveness. And so I either will or I won't, because they think forgiveness is pretending that something didn't happen. And we can't do that. Right? How do we start to process things knowing that, yes, they're still hurt. And there's still situations that I cannot put myself back in. But at the same time, start that process of forgiveness. How does that work for you?
I went through this fantastic book, again by Lisa Parkhurst. That's called forgiving what you can't forget. She really helped me to realize that forgiveness is exactly what you said, it's not pretending it didn't happen. It's not saying what that person did was okay. Not Not even close. It's about finding the ability to not want them to suffer anymore not not to want revenge on them to even go so far as have
compassion for them, that they say hurt people hurt people, realizing that people who have hurt me are hurting deeply themselves. Now, that's easier said than done. But it is a process and she does a really great job of talking about, you know, practical ways. You know, what forgiveness is, what forgiveness isn't, and practical ways that, that you can work on forgiving somebody. And so that's what I've been
working on is the forgiveness. And it's really hard. Because there are people in my life I don't think deserve to be forgiven. But I have to remind myself that in God's eyes, I don't deserve to be forgiven either for the things that I've done. That's a very humbling reminder that I'm human, and I've hurt people, and I've done things and I don't deserve it. But Jesus died to forgive me anyway.
If there's someone listening at the moment, who is suffering in in whatever way that might be, whether that is deep emotional pain, or deep physical pain, what would be the first thing that you would want to say to them?
I want everybody to realize that our circumstances don't control our attitudes or our destiny we do. So we get to choose if we're going to live with our circumstances or if we're going to suffer from them because suffering from our circumstances is a choice. Living with it. Not a choice suffering from it is a whole different ballgame. If that makes sense.
Lauren, I'm sure that there are going to be people that are wanting to get in touch with you to read your blog to read what you have to say but also to listening to the podcast. What would be the easiest way for people to find you online?
Well, I am it hurts to mom everywhere so ithurtstomom.com my podcast is called It Hurts to Mom I'm at ithurtstomom on Instagram and Facebook. And my Gmail is ithurtstomom@gmail.com so I'm pretty easy to find.
That makes it very simple.
Yes, I try.
I'll make it even easier. I will put links in the show notes at bleedingdaylight.net so that people can find you even more easily. But Laura and I just want to thank Thank you for being open with the story that you've told us. There's a lot of pain in there. I know that as you've gone through that, that it will continue to bring things up from your past and to focus on those things is not easy sometimes. But I
just want to thank you for your honesty, your openness. And thank you for spending time on believing daylight today.
Thank you.
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