Britt Mooney - We Were Reborn for This

Today's guest has been a teacher, he's worked alongside his wife in Korea as a missionary. He's an author and a church planter. Britt Mooney is also the host of the Kingdom Over Coffee podcast. Even though many people of faith are left shaking their heads at the state of the world today. Britt believes that in the face of the tragedy and hate all over this globe, Christians do have the answer. He's recently released the book

we were reborn for this the Jesus model for living heaven on earth. I'm so pleased to have him join us on Bleeding daylight today. Britt, thank you so much for your time.

you know what, it wasn't all bad. It wasn't all good, and just kind of delineating some of that. But part of what was a blessing about where I grew up. And how I grew up even as conservative as a church was we were taught to really dig down into what the Bible actually said, we weren't just given pat answers to things. I wasn't just given pat answers to things, I was really encouraged to seek out the Scripture, what

does it really say, and have those conversations with men and women in the church. And it was a small enough church that I had, I had relationships with a lot of people who are adults, and pretty much

older than me, that really mentored me and looked past my long hair. I was a heavy metal guy, I played the guitar and the bass and wrote really loud songs. I was doing it all for Jesus, but they look past a lot of that and just really tried to see my heart, I was really blessed that I had a very positive experience of people who are really willing to have conversations and allow me to ask interesting questions that maybe a

lot of teenagers, if you know, I was that kind of kid, I was that kid that would ask the question that, you know, a lot of kids probably wouldn't ask, you know, why is it that way? Why do I have to do that? You know, and I would question a lot of things. And God was very kind to me to put me in a situation where I had adults around me that would have those conversations with me and seek out those sorts of answers with me. So that's kind of where I'm at where and how I grew up.

the styles of music and it seems kind of silly now. But you're right is kind of taken on some other meanings. And yet, I think for some of us who grew up in it, especially the healthy parts of it, I think we realized is

what a gift it was to have a clear foundation. I mean, we use the terms may be conservative, but there was a real firm idea that there was that there were foundational truths. And I think that for me, at least, I think for a lot of us who grew up in that there's a certain amount of security and a good foundation there as we, as we tried to navigate what the culture was doing, and all the all of these things, but you're right.

And nowadays, it's almost become like a cuss word to call people a conservative Christian, you know, that's bad as you're evil and oppressive, and I didn't have that experience at all in my particular context. So yeah, you're right, we've kind of changed the meaning to some of those things.

enough sometimes to know what we want or need. And so God directs us into pathways that really will satisfy us that really will bring us joy. I was taught to hear the voice of God and to follow what he's telling me to do. Oftentimes, that was different than then my idea of what I thought my future was going to be, I thought I was going to be a rock star. When I was in my teens and early 20s, I thought I was going to be a rock star

for Jesus. And I had a pastor, look at me one time, he goes, No, you're you're a pastor, that's who you are. And I thought, no, that's not who I am. And I'm what I'm going to do. But and then that's where God leads me as a church planter, and as a leader, and not kicking and screaming. But God's kind of had to lead me along these ways. And revealed to me that this is actually where you're going to find a lot of

the satisfaction that you're searching for, in the same way moving to Korea, my wife and I were teachers here in America, and my wife is fluent in German. And so our assumption was, we wanted to move overseas. But our assumption was, we were going to go to Germany, or we're going to go to Europe somewhere, live cool and live European. And, of course, God had another plan. And God called us to a place where I'm way too tall.

I'm six foot four. So I'm far too tall. I didn't like the food I was going to stick out. But he brought me there because he had a plan. And he wanted to teach me things there about how to be an alien and a stranger in this world, and how to live as if this world is not my home. And the kingdom really is and that heaven is really my home. And so he had things that he wanted to teach me that he knew were going to

actually satisfy my soul. Yes, the foundation was there, the foundation was all of those foundational things about the gospel and the doctrine of scripture. But essentially, the foundation for me was, he's the Lord of my life, and he gets to tell me what to do. Because I've given my life to him, I have surrendered my life to Him and repentance and faith. And so he leads me and he he's such a good father, that he leaves

me in places that I may not have chosen on my own. In the end, he knows what's good. He knows the end, he knows what's going to satisfy me. He knows what's going to bring me joy, and give me good things.

in the Scripture, too. And it says in Matthew 13, that Jesus spoke these parables. There's a number of parables there in Matthew 13. And in the middle of around verse 3435. I think Matthew says, Jesus taught these things with parables, which are stories that he made up and And then he says, he never taught without a parable. Now, that doesn't mean he only taught in stories. But Matthew says, and it's repeated

in Mark, that he always taught with a story line. In other words, every time he taught, he would tell a story somewhere in there. And then in Matthew, He explains that this is a fulfillment of the Old Testament prophet, which is actually David, from one of the Psalms, it says, that I will open my mouth and speak in parables and reveal the secrets that were hidden from the days of old or whatever Jesus was explaining things

was stories. And he was revealing eternal realities, and very common stories, that's part of our call as human beings is to live a story, live in such a way that heaven is real. And heaven is made evident in our life by what we choose, and the way we act and how we are generous. And that's even how we're supposed to pray, right? You know, Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, your kingdom come your will be done on

earth as it is in heaven. Like we're, we're living as if heaven is real, because it is, we're living that sort of story. And then we're also supposed to tell the sort of stories. And for the Bible, there's three types of stories that they would tell. And the one would be actual narratives, right? So Jesus, or Paul, or somebody would tell stories about something that happened in the Old Testament, and then they would bring out

an eternal reality. And principle from those stories that really happened in history, they would also tell stories about themselves, we get some of the gospel stories from Jesus actually explaining what happened to him. I don't know that the writers of the Gospels would have known some of those stories without Jesus or Mary or someone else, telling them the stories like Luke would not have known any of that,

because he didn't know Jesus personally. So they would tell stories about what happened to Jesus. And Paul would tell the story about his own life. His own conversion was a central part of his preaching, I used to

kill Christians. And then Jesus knocked me off my horse. And now I'm preaching the gospel, like this is a very radical story that has a lot of power. And then also, there's stories, like the parables and other things that are made up, but reveal sort of a deeper truth than the common elements that are part of them, like a woman loses a coin, she finds it and she celebrates and invites her friends, you know, like, but Jesus is

explaining that this is how the Kingdom is that there's an eternal reality in this. Beyond the common that we see. I think that for us, as Christians, we have to see these things and realize that the Bible is full of narrative, and it's full of stories. It starts out within the beginning and telling us this grand epic story. And so often, we're more interested in the apologetics and arguments create enemies, but stories make

friends. And so when we tell stories, we're being relational with people, we're bringing people into a conversation, we're revealing some deeper truths to them with a story that we really can't do with decorative statements. Like I can say, God is love. And that is true. But those three words God is Love does not, cannot, because it's human limited language, it cannot fully express the reality that God is love. We tell a

story that God sent His Son to die for us to be with us to be a manual. And we tell the story of this gospel that reveals the depth of his love for God so loved the world, that He gave His Son to die for us so that we wouldn't perish. And then he rose from the dead. Like, there's a very radical story here. And that's the gospel. And that shows us his love, on a depth that just the mere statement that God is Love can't really do

fully. Yes, I absolutely believe that we should be better at telling our own stories, we should be better about telling the stories of Jesus. I think it encourages people, it gives people hope. It reveals the miraculous, you know, when somebody hears a story about somebody raising from the dead, it seems unbelievable. But it opens up their mind to all these different possibilities besides the life that they feel stuck in,

and it gives people hope, reveals eternal things. I absolutely believe that storytelling is a huge part of what we should be teaching each other to do and encouraging each other to do not that the doctrine or theology is pushed to the side, but that they can be meshed together that we can express doctrine and theology like Jesus did, with very simple stories, some of those stories that Jesus told her like a sentence

long, they weren't very long. And yet there was very deep meaning within them, I think we would make a lot more friends. And we would bring a lot more people into eternal discussions. If we just told more stories

when they say, Hey, look at that story you told us like what you didn't get it? Okay, I'll tell you. What places there for leaving things open ended in a story. And again, the story that you were just telling the parable of the woman who loses the coin, and saying the kingdom is like so much throughout Scripture, people are trying to get a grasp on this idea of Kingdom. And all Jesus says, well, it's like this. And let me tell you

another story. never seems to come down to this is the definition of the kingdom. But it's like this.

that's because it's such a different reality, no definition of the kingdom would ever do it justice. But what they did was they told stories, they talked about it. One of the things we love as humans, well, we love it, and we don't love it. We want to discover things for ourselves. As a teacher, I'm not in school teaching. Now, I'm not a teacher in a school today. But I have a background in teaching my wife, still a

teacher in public school, people own what they learn when they learn it for themselves. They own it, they remember it. And a good teacher doesn't just simply tell you something and get you to regurgitate it back to you, a good teacher will give you enough to send you on a search for yourself. And then when you find the answer for yourself, you own it. It's now yours. And this is what Jesus was doing with the

parables the disciples actually begged him, the disciples actually begged Jesus, will you please stop telling stories? Just tell us what you mean? And he said, No, I'm telling this in stories, because I'm hiding it on purpose. I want people to dig, I want people to search, I'm leaving the mystery open ended, so that those who truly want to know, we'll ask, we'll dig a little further, we'll show some effort. Some of those people

who actually did that, were those disciples the, the 12, closest to him would ask him later, what did What are you talking about? We didn't understand that. And sometimes Jesus would say, do you understand this, and he would let those parables kick off and activate some some deeper conversations. When I say we don't like it. Our brains are lazy. And we're lazy enough. That part of us is like, just tell us what you want us to

know. And we'll repeat it back to you. Okay, now I've checked it off, I've passed the quiz. That's not what God wants, because we don't own it, then we don't own that information. We don't own our faith. In those moments. We own our faith when God gives us enough, but he doesn't really give us the whole picture yet. And he's wanting to see if we're going to dig you know, the mystery genre in writing is like the second

moneymaker only under romance, right? We want to be involved in stories that have some mystery, and, and don't give us all the answers right away. We want to kind of dig and figure it out for ourselves, because then we own it. And God wants us to own our walk of faith. The ownership is all in the Scripture. He gives the talents to the servants. And so it's a gift. They didn't earn this, he tells them now go work as if

it's yours and invest it. And then the two who did that, they doubled their money that he gave them. And when they tried to give it back, he said no, this belongs to you. Now. In other words, this you own this, you worked with it, you applied it now it's now you own it, and belongs to you, even though it was originally a gift and the one who buried it, who just was like I'll just regurgitate it back to you. He lost it all.

That's also the reason why a lot of Christian entertainment falls flat is because I think we give people the answers too much. We don't tell the kind of stories that get people to Ask questions and have conversations. We can point to the answer. But we don't let people kind of get people into this mode of, oh, there's a mystery in this, and what is it? What's going on what's behind this? Those are the stories that are

very powerful, that are saying something without openly saying it and allows us to kind of dig into it. The very insightful what you said that they never give a direct definition of the kingdom. But they told stories, and got us to search and figure it out. I love it.

the Bible, and you really have this radical experience with Jesus, then you should be a pastor, then you should be some sort of professional Christian. And I just don't see that in the scripture for the New Testament. For every believer and every disciple, it's a radical thing. It's a radical transformation. It's, it's darkness to light, it's death to life, it's bondage to freedom, like, it's as radical as you can

get. And that's normal Christianity. And yes, God raises up leaders, and God raises up pastors, and God raises up facilitators, but the leadership in the New Testament is to activate the new creation that's within every believer. That's the message of the book. You know, I started out with one of my favorite lines from one of my favorite movies hook with Robin Williams. And, and he doesn't know he's Peter Pan, because he's

forgotten. And he's ruled more by fear and economics and all this sort of stuff than he then he is remembering the adventurous young person that he used to be the child that was within him. And he has forgotten that he's forgotten the hero that he is, when his kids are taken. Wendy, says, Peter, don't you know who you are, she's trying to get him to see that he's the only one that can save his kids. It's not going to be the police. It's

like, like, the enemy that's involved, needs Peter Pan to fight that enemy. So she's trying to activate this reality of who He really is the hero that's within him. And she says, Peter, don't you know who you are. And I feel like that's been a big part of my message for people. Don't you know who you are. And that's the point of the book, the point of the book is to say, there's not going to be a political party. I'm not

against political parties necessarily. It's just, it's not going to be a political party or a certain politician or church program, it's going to be the people of God, being activated in the new creation that we are in the spirit that's inside of them, living heaven on earth, as a people, that's what's going to bring hope to the world that desperately needs it. And so I use the narrative of Lazarus, Jesus raising that

Lazarus from the dead as a framework, to show how Jesus was trying to be that model. This is how you live, as if heaven is real while you're on Earth. And so that's, that's the book in a nutshell.

you are, you are a son or a daughter of the living God, and you're here to bring light to this place. Tell me a bit about the difference between what the world what the church is telling us and that person that we truly are.

those things but the problem a lot of times with whether the world does or the church does it is, it's as if this is the means to an end. Well, if we get the right law, this will fix stuff. And I'm all for good laws, like we should have good laws. I'm not saying we shouldn't. But there's a deeper reality that actually transforms like laws. We know laws don't transform things, we have a whole Old Testament that shows us that law

doesn't change people that at our core, our hearts need to be changed. And people need to see a group of people living as ambassadors with a with a heart change. And when they do that, then it's bigger, even under evil laws. Evil laws can't stop the people of God who are living as if him heaven is real. Again, this is in the in the New Testament, Old Testament. It's in all throughout history, if you read like, even

under evil regimes, they can't stop the people of God because you're of another world, you're of another more powerful, transcendent reality, which is the kingdom of God and Heaven. When we understand this, it's not as if these other things in the world aren't important, but they're put in their proper place. And we are empowered just by God, that whoever we are, from the least to the greatest, we are all empowered

by His Spirit. None of us are here by our own abilities, or our own intelligence, or what have you. We are all empowered by God, by faith. And by the new creation. And by being born again. We are all empowered to be a transformative agent in the lives of the people around us. And if we can activate that, I believe that's what the world needs, the world needs more people alive in the spirit more than they need better laws. And

again, please don't hear me wrong. I don't want bad laws. Jesus was incarnated, he came as a person to be with us, to love us to be with us. And that's the model of transformation. He wasn't a senator in Rome, there was a reason why God chose to do this, because that's the best way is he? He was born to be among us, to live with us to be real, to have relationship to live as if heaven is real, right alongside us. And that's the model.

in the right program, you'll kind of achieve the right thing. And you'll live, you know, all this sort of stuff. And yet, I think a lot of times we don't realize that the worship, the praise and worship we seek to have, we don't have to work it up. The Bible says that the spirit within me cries out opera father, I just have to rest and submit to that spirit to have to worship and praise Him. Jesus is already in my heart, telling

the Father, He loves him. And I just have to enter into that. And the Bible talks about being in Christ, more than it talks about anything. Its uses the term in Christ, I don't know 100 times the New Testament, but in Christ in Christ, what does that mean is that I just got to be in him. And so then when he moves, and I move, I don't have to put this pressure on myself of how people react. You know, even Jesus did it. Like

that's his model for those who have ears to hear, let him hear. Even he didn't try to control how people responded to him. He did what he saw his father do. And he said, what he heard his father say, and that was his success. And and I believe that that's a gift to us, because there's rest and there's peace in that. That doesn't mean we'll have a perfect life. Because Jesus encountered resistance. And he told us, He promised us

that we would do and yet he says, but don't be afraid. I have overcome the world. This is this is the victory. This is the victory. And it's that simple, relational. I'm walking with the Father, and I'm walking from my identity. I'm walking from victory I'm giving from the resources of heaven. I already have all things in Christ. I don't need to achieve anything. I just need to walk with Him and walk in that reality. In

that identity, and I totally agree with you, it takes all that pressure off of did a million people responded, did people get saved like I don't, I don't have to think of the results. He's in charge of that. I'm already a winner, just walking with him and submitting my life to Him.

we were reborn for this on Amazon. Pretty soon that's going to be up on Barnes and Noble and stuff like that. But right now it's on Amazon, you can get it at least the ebook all over the world. And those are probably the two two biggest ways you can sort of get in touch with me.