WRITING CHECKS IN ATLANTA w/ COLLAB CAPITAL | Flashback

to an investor. That were the last ten years, Mark Zuckerberg has made more money than every NBA player combined. I was like, wow, and I'm still at Apple. I said, who, I'm doing this wrong? So I said, you know, I want to move from being a consumer to a producer to an investor. And Paul said, you know what if you're living the same challenges as most of them, It's called the dream is dimember. See, either you can risk chasing your dreams or you can have the safety of

working on someone else's. The question is which one you're gonna choose. It's easy. I went to tex Square Labs is in Atlanta, Georgia. For those you are on the East Coast that want to think about building This is a place that you can come and learn how to build something from nothing. You gotta do what you love. Prioritize your passion, but tell the world because they'll hold your accountable and from there you'll be able to make it happen. So the way I say this is listen,

don't define your destiny about where you are today. If you have a plan in your heart, go after achieve. I'm Will Lucas and this is Black Tech Dream Money. I'm gonna introduce you to of the biggest names, some of the brightest minds and brilliant ideas. If you're black, in building or simply using tech to secure your back, this podcast is for you. Collapse Capitals and Investment fund leveraging financial, human, and social capital to help black founders

build sustainable innovations in their businesses. Three managing partners, Verry Givens, Jill Bert's and Justin Dawkins, are previously operators and engineers who run innovative startups, very significant venture capital and successfully sold their companies. I asked the partners about the state of black startups. What is unique about this current moment in history that make collap capital both an opportunity and

necessary step in their respective careers. It is so important right now to be supporting investing in black founders because we know that this year alone has been crazy for everyone, but in particular for black founding businesses. Um there's some scary statistics out there around the fact that of black founded companies may not recover at all from OVID, and we want to make sure that the companies that we

can support actually do make it. And so even before that, though, even before this year and before you know, people became more aware of the fact that black founded companies needed more resources, we already were on this mission to invest in black founders, and it was really born out of

our own journeys. All of us have built companies before, all of us have had difficulty raising money before getting access to the right networks, and so we kind of made a vow to ourselves and to each other that when we could, we would make sure that the next generation of entrepreneurs coming up behind us would not have to deal with some of the things that we had to deal with on our journeys. So that's really the why is. You know, we saw this opportunity in the

market to serve black founders. We think there's a huge market opportunity, not just it's not a charity opportunity, it's really a business opportunity to support black founders. And we felt like we were the right people to do it, giving our experience and giving our backgrounds. Barry, let's talk

about that. So, you know, being venture funded in your your career, trajecting your business, and what is it about the traditional VC ecosystem that may not be great for black entrepreneurs where we get you know, disproportionately affected by decisions or ways of doing business. Yeah, I'll touch you on two quick points covering that, UM, and thank you for having us today too. Well, appreciate you. UM, get

that out of the way. UM. But you know, like going through this journey, you even if you look at funds you know that have you know, black managing partners right and or funds that folks so on diversity or you know marginalized people. UM, black founders still tend to

be marginalized within the marginalized UM. And so it was a really big deal for us to say, like we are unapologetically black, Like we don't use words like minority, we don't use words like diversity, like we invest in black founders, because that is the issue, like when you think about diversity to sixties, we were still being left in the dust, right. And so then you take it a step further and let's say black founders do get

that first check. The way that venture capitalists built now is that it's always running to the next check, it's always running to the next round. Um. And you take companies like mine that we you know, I was able to secure capital, and then when you need to get to that next level, that's typically where black founders you can't find that person that believes in you too to give you that eight new which what we were raising. You can't find that, you know, seven eight million dollars

for your Series A uh um. And we needed to create a model that allowed for founders to not depend on that system, right like you eat. So even when we get them to building the sustainable businesses, you run your business and you decide if you go ask somebody, you decide if you give somebody the opportunity to invest in your business, um. And that's how we allow black founder to be more successful because honestly, we're not going

to change that system overnight. And in this world, if you can't get the series B, you know, and keep raising and keep raising UM. A lot of times you don't reach that level of success. And so those are two things, you know, why we found it so important to develop this new model. And and justin when I think about UM in Bury and Jules just talked about it, you know, having that access to capital, and you know this as well as anybody, it's often more than just

capital that we need. All of the capital is important. There's just you know, tweet going around talks about we're over mentored and underfunded right into too often. And but other things beyond the capital is also important too. So I don't want to talk about I want to talk about this a couple of times during this conversation, like what other things do entrepreneurs need that particularly black entrepreneurs don't get in traditional VC relationships that you guys made

it a priority to focus on. Yeah, that's that's a great question, Will um and and really appreciate that question because it really points to the purpose of collab I mean, it's short for collaboration UM. One of the things that is often just one of many things that is often missing UM is usually promised, which is, oh, we're going

to be your partners. We're going to do the things that we need to do to UM sidecar the capital right that's going into the business, But the level of intentionality is not always there, which is the commitment, the

willingness to get into the weeds. UM and as experienced operators, all three of us having built different types of businesses and helped to create other types of businesses, we recognize and understand that sometimes the best investors are experienced operators, folks who understand how they kind of get into the weeds, how to identify business models and opportunities and then build out of build out of that experience as opposed to just bringing capital U. And then the other thing is

access to networks. Right, so business is still relationships entered. And so no matter how many machines and artificial intelligence we put in place, we need relationships. And you know, two notches above warm intros. We need highly intentional relationships that are developed, nurtured, and so there's there's lines of trust so that our founders can get into the doors, secure the conversations that they need to have, and get the deals actually done. And so those are the things

that we are actually focused on. The collab through our non capital contributions and investments U and very because you know, we're working towards building more inclusion and economic opportunity for entrepreneurs who typically haven't seen these opportunities historically. Um, how do you approach them differently and meet their knees? And what I mean by that is, is there a difference in the term sheet structure like that you would give a black entrepreneur versus one that a VC and a

traditional firm might give. And we don't have to just tick the term sheets, but how is it, Um, how are the structures set up with that capital infusion different if they are for black founders versus the typical ones they might receive. So I mean we can dive into that super deep. You talk about just traditional term sheets that uh, I would even get into the term sheets,

but I got the terms just typically aren't there. And so typically what you're here is, you know, as a black founder, you need to have you know, Series A level progress to get sea level terms. You gotta have speries B level progress to get Series A level terms. Um. You know, you take businesses like you know a part Kick or Masnew like these businesses that we were growing, and you know, you have seven figure revenues and you still can't get over you know, you still can't raise five, seven,

eight million dollars and you have companies out here. You know, not to throw names out there, but I appreciate people know it. But people with you know, two thousand users get a hundred million dollar valuations. It's you know, how do you compete in that world? And so basically what

we said, it's like, let's break that world down. And something that I tend to like to brag about is that, you know, we we tore that model down, not in a negative way, but just literally layer by layer by layer and pull it back to find out, why are these inequalities here? How was this system built? When you tear it all the way back? We justin wrote a piece and when he sent it over to us to read.

You know, one of the um things in the peace was that, you know, venture capital started when black people still couldn't vote. Yeah, like, this was constructed at a time we had no power, and so obviously it wasn't built for us. And so now when we when we stripped back layer by air by layer, one of the big things that we wanted to focus on. Our model was ownership and flexibility as black founders. How many times have we seen the founder build a company and get

removed as CEO. We told they had to go in this direction. And so what we did was we built a model from scratch UM Like, we're not using a traditional we're not using a safe note or a convertible

note or traditional series a turn sheet. UM. We built and spent a year and a half of eighteen months building an entirely new investment vehicle UM that allowed us to give the founders that ownership and that flexibility to run the company the way they think it needs to be ran obviously with us as advisors and with our LP network and that human capital justin talked about. But for us, like that is the important thing that we

want these founders to build generational wealth. And you don't build generational wealth by not owning the thing that that you built. And so that's where a lot of our focus is in our model. That's really really, really good.

I think about not only do you have the differences in focusing on black entrepreneurs specifically in our needs, but you also have a geographical difference, Like what is the difference Jewel, if you can speak to this, what is the difference between raising money in the traditional network like ecosystem, like a Silicon Valley versus like a Georgia or in the South period, Like what are those critical differences that you're gonna get when you're having those conversations with angels

and vcs. Yeah, term sheets and the terms in general look very different in Silicon Valley than they look in Atlanta. And that's one of the things that we really wanted to focus in on as well, is that you shouldn't have to be in Silicon Valley or in New York or in Boston to build a great business. You should be able to build wherever you have the right network and you have the customer base and you have the talent um. Wherever is is it works for your particular business.

And so that's one of the things that we've built into the model is how do we leverage what's strong about the cities that we're in talking about Black people were in Atlanta, So how do we leverage what's great about Atlanta? The influence, the culture, uh right, you know, the access to fortunate five companies. How do we leverage all of those things to make startups successful here and so everywhere that we want to be Think about Detroit,

think about Atlanta, think about Baltimore. Um, how do we go into those cities and really tap into what's already there instead of trying to recreate what has been was worked arguably work for Secon Valley. Let's not try to make you know these little mini silicon valleys. Let's try to make ecosystems that work for the people there and then allow those people to stay there, build their companies there,

impact the communities there. That's what we want to be a part of and what we think our model helps facilitate. Sticking with you, like, there are people who come to this conference and are looking to invest, and maybe they're not sophisticated investors, but they they got a little bit of money, you know, put away, or maybe they have high incomes or etcetera. They're looking for deals. And how

should people who have that makeup, Um, dip there? Either I don't even know if it's would say, dip their toe in the water, because you are in you know, once you write that check, you just married somebody, Like how do you learn to do this? Like, you guys aren't you know, you don't have historical VC. You know d n A right, but how do you how do you learn how to do this? And um do it in a way where you understand that you're gonna make some bad calls. Well, we would argue that you should

invest in Collapse, so we can there you go. But you know, one of the things that that that I did and in Burying just and have done as well, is, um we got out there, we started making writing checks and putting our own capital UM at risk to see what is this thing all about? So before we started Collapse, I was experiment seeing with different ways to put together deals with my angel investments and then also learning from

other funds through LP investments. And so the best way to learn is really to put some money out there and see what happens. And I don't I always tell new investors you should invest like this money is not coming back. It's very risky to invest in early stage companies. But um, you know, one of the ways is just to start, even if you're starting small with you know, thousands,

five thousand, ten thousand dollar checks. That's one way. And then I made a joke at the beginning about just invest in collab, But really we did build a model to get more particularly black investors activated and get them more comfortable with the idea of investing in early stage

technology scalable companies. And one of the unique things about our model is that in a typical VC funds structure, if you invest, you're expecting that you're not gonna see that money in the next seven to ten years because you're waiting on exits. But in our model, given that we have we have this profit share model, we expect to be returning capital to our LPs within three years

of their investment. So just a little different, but it was really built to help activate people that are a little timid to put their capital to work in this way. Justin let's not even into that profit sharing my life,

how does that functionally work? So when you get when you find somebody, you run into somebody at you know, the gathering spot or wherever you at, and they're like, yo, I gotta fit the grand you know, just put away to do something with like and you're explaining to me, I'm gonna make money faster or potentially make some money back faster than that seven to ten. You know, you're spending jewel talks about how does that functionally work. That's

a great question, will Um. It's something that we actually enjoy talking about. When we're talking to LPs, particularly of the more experienced VC path they understand that a little bit more So, it's always great to kind of unearth and peel back the layers of what we what we work to do UM for for that that investor, for that potential limited partner in our company, that LP. What

we focus on is kind of two key things. One, we still need you to be an active limited partner, right, We still want you to activate those networks to help you know, UM open doors provide pathways for revenue and profitability for our companies UM, and so that's kind of the very first thing we want to do is we

want relationships and we want collaboration. And then on the actual fund mechanics side of it, what we do is we focus on profit sharing and so UM instead of waiting that the seven to ten years, as Jewel described UM, when there's an when we make an investment, we set terms with our target investment with the portfolio company UM, and we we set out a time frame of when

they will actually start to return profits. And as those profits return through our investment vehicle, we then distribute directly back to the LPs. And one of the really cool features of our our investment model is we also have partners um and that those growth partners are largely made up of our LPs. So again we get to activate them, get them really involved in a in a high touch way, which also gives them kind of like an angel investor level access as far as being on the cap table

where they can actually take direct profits. So as the returns to come into um the return to the fund, they actually will get a portion of their profit share directly to them, which again increases their potential upside um and gets again makes that that that access they have, the work they're willing to do, and actually can compensate them much sooner than seventy teen years out. Barry, Let's back up, like on the how this building a fund

actually works. I would imagine there's people here who are not like sophisticated, you know in an investment only on the investor side of the table, but maybe just dope founders. But when you are starting a phone like you're you're starting your startup, You're you're pitching the people to give you money so you can pick so you can give

the money away. Right you talk to me about how this, how this works as starting a startup, which is your fund in this respect, Yeah, it's it's super different than selling the widget, right Like, Uh, you know, we were raising the raising for ma Sria. You know, I walk in, I would make people drink that touch the technology. You know, they're and all and they're like, oh this thing really works, um,

you know. And so you have that excitement. And now you walk into a room and or I guess nobody's walking the room right now, but you have into a zoom um and you say, hey, I need you to give me money for some stuff that I don't even know it's come out yet, right like, because I'm gonna make investments. This money in you Like, I don't even know if this entrepreneurs entree normal. I still be sitting you know, in you know, North Carolina. A and T

is a student right now. We don't know what they're gonna do, right, And so that's one of the more difficult parts. But I think just as far as getting a fund off the ground, one of the things I love about our team is that we're operators right, Like, this is what we do. We go into systems or you know, industries, and we say, hey, there is a gap here, there is a problem. And so if you even combed through our website, we don't even mentor mentioned

ourselves venture capitalists. We call ourselves capital entrepreneurs. Like, we saw a gap, but there's this big economic gap between people that get funded by bank loans and people that get venture capital. And it's eighty three cough, And put out this report a couple of years ago that ad three percent of businesses don't fit those two ways of getting capital. So as an entrepreneur, you look at it and you say, man, that's a big economic gap that

nobody's looking at right now. And so like, we can go build something that takes advantage of that. And not only could we do that, but a lot of black companies fit in that gap as well. So not only could we take advantage of this economic opportunity, we can also do it in a way that's really good for our community and build some wealth and start printing black

millionaires through this model. And so when you look at it that way from entrepreneurial perspective, we've basically put ourselves in a position that when we walk into investor rooms, now we're not competing with the same funds that are have the same exact traditional model they're coming in and now it's just like, hey, will you have model A and such and such you have from a point in one right like if you're you're going out to the

same people with the same model. We becut ourselves in a position as entrepreneurs that we're pitching a widget now like we're coming into and we have this new shiny thing. You should be investing in this model like and and then you should be investing in this dope as team of operators that has proven themselves. And so we're really we're now we've we've gotten ourselves comfortable because we're pitching

like founders. Now we were walking in and so we're not pitching like a traditional VC will walk in to go raise capital for funds, and as you can see them getting excited because now we're we're like, we've put ourselves in the zone to make ourselves successful. Every investor is looking for specific things when they think about putting money in the startup. Maybe when they're vetting an opportunity, they're looking at I found a pedigree. Maybe considering the

viability of the tech. Maybe they have a fear of missing out on the next Google. Who knows for collapse capital, what sparks they're interested enough to take a meeting with the start of the founder, particularly at the earliest stage when there isn't a ton of proof of concept. Justin Dawkins speaks on it. Yeah, that's a great question, and this is definitely the sweet spot. This is because this is where I love to operate. Um just personally, I think we look for two key things. Where I look

for two key things. One is great, right, so tenacity, how do you your ability to solve problems and take any advice and guidance and being able to discern and that that will take some work and some getting used to, especially for early stas companies, but I do look for that. And the founders were they able to solve a problem or how far they were able to get and trying to solve their problem before they look for outside help.

So that's one thing, right, That's that creativity. And then the other thing is you know, as as now a partner in an investment firm, we're looking for kind of similar personality traits and characteristics as it relates to our community and the impact that we're trying to to have. So one of the things, one of the signals for us is you know, yes, wealth comes with a lot of benefits, right, so, yes, you can go and buy

homes and nicer cars and you know things. But more importantly, what is it that why are you doing this work and what is it that you ultimately want to do with the wealth that you're generating for you, your company, in the community. That's important to me as well. Um, and that's why I started with social impact with you know, when I did the work with Good Nation was I really really wanted to focus on folks who wanted to solve tough problems. And if we made money along the way,

that's wonderful because we can do things with that. But more importantly, what is the impact in the long term impact of the work that we're doing. So it's more about legacy. So so Jule, I think about you know, when I hear an answer like justice, like how do I show you that grit? When I'm standing I'm walking in the hall during afro Tech conference and I see you're walking by, Like how do I how do I get your attention in that moment where you're like, oh,

you know what we should talk after this? How do how do you do that? You know, it's it's hard to do, especially at a conference like AFRO Tech. I'm you know, given that we're now all online, I'm assuming there will be new and innovative ways that people can kind of get that that attention. But to me, it's not about that initial meeting. I mean, that's great. You need to be able to make yourself known and tell somebody in a split second what you're working on and

why they should care. But it's really about the follow up. I think that is the critical point that people need to pay attention to is Okay, you've gotten my you met me, you know how to touch with me. But then are what are you doing after and are you showcasing over time that you're you're on this, you're making progress with me or without me, you're still making it happen.

That's the big thing I think a lot of people miss because they're waiting on somebody to show them the way or to give them something and and being stagnant. But the people that really impressed me and the people that we've invested in so far are the ones who are able to showcase over time. This is this is where you met me. Now it's a month later, and I'm a little bit further. I'm a little bit further. I'm a little bit further, and I'm telling you I'm

dictating that progress over time. That to me is what gets me excited and makes me like, Okay, well you're on it. Let me get let me get on your train because you're going somewhere. Um, so that's I think that's what we look for as well. You know, um you also had security walking around affort security six six to nine. Indeed, yes, you gotta get passing boys and just just I think about, um, you know this is

Reid Hoffman Court says. You know, if you're not embarrassed by the first launch of your your first person of your product and you launched too late, and you know when you think about, you know, your full stack entrepreneur, full stack engineer, what what are your thoughts on when you're evaluating, you know, some tech that somebody is pitching you to invest in the technical viability of this thing, Like what are you looking for in that that stack,

that code, that whatever that you know, its ability to actually make it in the world, because I imagine if I'm buried, you know what I'm and I had that machine, you know, and I'm taking this to to this to

sweet I'm going to go show some people. I'm nervous, armed printons sweating, and I'm like, please work today, right because you just it's just it's tech, right and and so and you haven't and you haven't always mastered it, especially in those early stages when you're building technology, justin like, how are you, as an as an engineer looking at that that that stack to make sure that what they say they can do they can actually do. Yeah, great question.

I think I've ever been asked this question, so I really appreciate it. Um. The first thing is I'm self taught. So you know, I taught myself how to design. I taught myself how to two scripts and build databases and like everything I've I've ever learned, UM, I learned it

on my own. UM. And so I give a lot of grace um to two products and to two first iterations and early versions of products, because I understand that if you piece this together with a no code or low coal solution, or you may have gone through two or three developers, and that language barrier like like sometimes figuratively and literally depending on where your development team is. I understand those things because I've dealt with those things firsthand.

I've cleaned up code. I'm sure I've delivered message code. There's someone else had to come behind and clean up is well. Um And so I think that the first thing that I look for is the value that you're providing actually as the end product and more so than the actual functional parts of the product, because I understand that with the right team and the right capital, we can always re engineer. We can re factor and rebuild it um and and get it to a more stable,

stable or scalable place. So the first thing I do is just how far did you get? Like? What did you learn? What were you willing to learn? What would you may be willing to do on your own um to to get you as far as you could go before you brought in that third engineer or before you committed to a CTO. I don't want that won't necessarily profounders to run around and bump their knees all the time, but I do appreciate and respect you know, being able

to piece it together and ultimately provide value. And if somebody's willing to pay you for a product that is imperfect, that to me is a is a great signal that there's something really, really viable and big here Because if someone who are willing to pay you for something that that that breaks down occasionally but still provides that that means that the need is strong there and that's a

great company to be working on the build. You know, Juel, I gotta follow up with that response, because I know when you build part picking the beginning, like you have contractors working on this now and being on the other side of the table now, like, what what are your thoughts on technical contractors? Do you find yourself as an investor, you know, perhaps giving preference to people who have internal teams.

And here's why I ask, It's because I do believe also there's value to having somebody come to you who's been able to engage smart people and sell a team to coming along this journey with them. Right, So what do you what are your thoughts on that? You know, part of the answer is it kind of depends on what they're building. If they're building something that is where the technology is just a means to the end and it doesn't matter so much that's not the core of

what they're doing. Then I don't think it's a bad for people to engage teams or contractors if it's really just a you know, part of a solution, it is something like what we were building at Part Pick, where the core of what we built was the technology. Then I'm expecting the person to be able to attract that first early core CTO or technical founder because it's it's core to what what they're building. So that's the first thing I think about, is what are you What are

you building? Is it something that you can pull off the shelf, or are you trying to build a new technology that actually needs a dedicated uh engineer, you know, expert in house to build it. Um So that's one thing, and then the other piece to your point, I think that first person or a few people that you attract that says a lot about you as a founder, and you're gonna have doing that over and over again, attracting folks to join your team, you know, attracting investors if

you decide to go that route, attracting customers. So I think that that early that's an early indicator of how good of a salesperson you are to bring people onto the team. And yeah, so those are the two things that I consider. Is is it crucial to the product or to the business? And then what am I able to learn about the founder as far as what they've been able to attract to them? I think people can tell a lot more about if they looked at part pick.

They can actually say, tell a lot more about the business by looking at folks like naturally Dr nashally Sea Fist and the fact that we had five pH d s from Georgia Tech that we're on our team. If they were looking they would be like, Okay, there must be something here that all these people have decided to spend time in this way. So that's how I think about it. But I again to Justin's point, I do have grace because I had to crawl through some part time team, so I do understand in that first year,

so people trying to just figure that part out. Yeah, you know, Bury this may be um a very general question to very specific cases, but like as a rule of thumb, um, what is a good answer to what are you going to do with this capital? When I write you a check? Oh, that's a good one. Uh uh, there there are several good answers, um, And I think it's really to your points of general question, right. I

think different companies need different things. From a general perspective, I think just having a clan like even if it's not a percent, right, like just showing me that you literally sought through, Like I'm gonna need to hire these four people and they're gonna cost in my region, right, the average developer costs eighty dollars a year, and the I'm gonna need to sales associates, they're gonna able commissioned for this much because I can't afford to bring in

a Like the fact that you went through that exercise, the fact that you went through into my a WS costs are going to vote from here there to hear and then that's to your customer, right, like the fact that you sought through these things and you can put in front of me and show me that your mind

in the right place. But at the same time, maybe your first time founder, you know you're you're early in your business that we we invest pretty early, uh you know, post product the kind of pre profit, so we want you to have the justice point like maybe one or two customers, but you don't have to have a hundred

thousand dollars a month in revenue. So where we invested early too, that's up to us as good investors to come in and say there's something here and the way that they just put the work in, we can polish it. Make sure that we sit down there and say you don't need four developers, you need seven because you forgot about the testing team and you know, so like we can go in and help them model it out and

polish it. But this gets back to also how you see Greek right, because now you're coming to me and you know this was me, right. I was the first time founder, never been around entrepreneurs in my life, and you know, but when I came with my dad, I had probably too much stuff right because I was just spending time like I probably need to know this and I need to have this chart, I need to have this worked out and have to do was problem ship right?

I don't know it was UM. But at the same time I was up like the middle of the night, tishly research and trying to figure out what I thought I needed UM. And so I said, it's hard to just get into specific to say I need to I

need you to say these three things. But the fact that you have a map and you also have a destination to show me when you give me this five thousand dollars, I'm gonna do these things on this map, and my destination is over here, and I'm gonna be profitable because it's gonna get me to this and many customers and my customers tave me this much a month. The that's the way it man change that you get to it. But at least we know where we're trying

to go. And it just shows me that you're a founder that I want to work with, that I can sit down and ideate with and get on the white

board like that's the kind of stuff that's excites me. So, Jewel, is is it important to Bario's point that that five hundred thousand dollars I'm gonna take in over two years, that's gonna take me the profitability or does that five Is it okay that five five thousand dollars takes me to the next round of funding, because I think a lot of entrepreneurs have that pressure, like y'all gotta check. I have to bring a return on this round of funding and not maybe the next round. That depends on

the investor. If you're talking to us that collab, are going to try to make a pathway for you to get take that five hundred thousand dollar or that first investment and get somewhere close to profitability because that's how our model works and that's what we actually think. We want to build businesses that can be profitable and sustainable so that the founders don't have to go out and raise more capital if they don't want to. That's our model.

For a different investor, you're gonna get a different answer. Most traditional VC investors, profitability is not a focused area in the early first several They actually wants you to reinvest any any profits back into the business, just go for growth. So you really have to know who you're talking to. Oh, as the entrepreneur is important to know what you want. Do you want to build a profitable business or do you want to you know, a venture scale,

venture backable business. So that's the choice, that's that's really good. But like in the early stages, like justin like how should I then value my company? So how do I set the price? Like when do I know if I should set a price or I should you know, set a price later via a convertible note or a safe for us, like, what's the best strategy for thinking about

how to price a company or not price it? That's a great question, um, for for our model and for all intents and purposes with collab Um, it's not necessary that you price around UM to bury his points. Um, it's important that you understand what your costs. Right, So you have a milestone, you have your rs r KPIs you know it's gonna take us to get from Moustone AID and Moustone B. It's gonna take this much work, effort and cost. Right is this much amount of this

amount of money? Those things are important. The value we look at it differently. We we look at it again as when you choose to collap capital pathway, you are opting for more ownership of your business and you're looking for to build a sustainable business that whether you get another penny from outside investment or not. You can employ people in your communities, you can cut yourself on a nice salary, and you can provide for your families and

the families of your your team members. So our metrics are measurement tool is slightly different. Now when you decide to if you decide if you own the collap capital pathway, and you decide that we you know, through work it's revealed that wow, this actually is a much bigger business or there's a bigger opportunity if we put this on the adventure the traditional VC pathway, then what we can do and what we will work with you on is

helping you price that round. Right, So now you've actually increased the value because you've actually focused on building a viable, profitable business. You don't you can take the money that you want to take. You don't have to be pressured um or feel that that that amount of pressure from

venture capitalists based on their terms. You actually get to set the terms and we'll will be happy and glad to do that with you because we've a been a part of the business long enough to know how the business works and where the profit is and where the growth is. Then also those warm introductions that people talk about so often are red hot, and it's really about

finding the best investors. They're gonna help you get to that that mouthstone and those exits and those acquisitions that we that we all know on the VC path you typically would look for while still preserving a larger portion, a much larger portion of the equity stake of the business. So um, I hope that answers the question, but that that is the collab answer to that question, Barry, at what stage are you investing? And if it's pre a

can you define it? Because you know you have seed round, you also have pre seed round and depending on who you're talking to, like, Okay, what's the difference between the seed and preceed Like right, so talking about that, Uh, you can call it. And I don't know if everybody's come up with turns like it was a seed and then when you know, seeds got too much, like oh we need to precede and now but now precedes are

a million dollar checks. It's all over the place. So the way we define it as we want you to be post products. So we want to see that you can build something to Justine doesn't have to be the perfect product, but we want to see that you can deliver something. And then we would also like to see that product in the hands of a couple of customers, you know, we we want to see a pilot. We want to see, you know, a couple of users on your app, and you're getting feedback and and showing that

you can, like you, what does a couple? Because you you listed at a couple, So my mommy used the app. I got cousin, he used the app. I need to know what a couple? A couple of thousand, a couple of hundreds. Yeah, that's a legit question. Um, So we we say, you know, like five to ten k in in revenue, Um, will we go above that and below that in some bills based on the bibility of the product and the team. Maybe they're a little bit earlier,

but you know they have a fedigree. Uh, you know we're we're an investors still, so we still we still we will have some of that. You know, you've got something before you're showing your success. Maybe you know you built that confidence up an investors, So maybe we will

do it a little bit earlier. Um. And then also is gonna be we may take something a little bit earlier if we have a really really good growth partner in our network that we can can take this thing to the next level and they just need some help, you know. So it will be some iterations, but I'll say the majority of our investments will will be that kind of post product. You know, you've got several thousand dollars in early revenue and we're gonna come in get

you with some growth partners. Um, you know, get your marketing stuff set up, help you with yourselves. Uh, it really help you take that in a profitable manner to you know, like that ten million are we kind of have this target to give you one to get companies to ten million dollars in revenue and that's how we return our fund back to the LPs UM to get our companies to ten million dollars in revenue with thirty

percent profitability. And so like that's the train that will get you on once you come in at that target. Talk to me about, UM, Atlanta, maybe the more broadly the South, but Atlanta specifically about like the tech ecosystem and the wrap around services that offer the opportunity for entrepreneurs to be successful, particularly black entrepreneurs. Like what is it about what is unique about Atlanta more generally the South that allows us to thrive? Yeah? Man, your questions

man today is UM, I love Atlantic. You can't tell between my hat and my shirt. Um, Atlanta is a special place, um, and and really actually stems from obviously the civil rights movement. UM. With Dr King, you can also talk about the political leadership and the things that were laid out that actually preserved and may wait for

wealth to be created amongst black people. So we look look at the world's busiest airport, like the world's busiest airport is half named by a black man because of the energy and the effort and the intentionality that he had and building a world class um airport and doing that with black people, UM right there along the way. And so that spirit um, it's it's still here and it persists. And I think when you take that into consideration and also adding the layers, right, so you're adding

great educational institutions. In Georgia tech got the called the Honorary hpc of Georgia State. Um, you have three HPCs UM literally right around the corner, like in downtown Atlanta. They're not rural hpc use, these are you know, urban you know urban hpc u s. So you have a lot, you have all the culture and the benefits of that. Then you start throwing and in the corporations the fortune

five hundreds UM. What that does is it creates a really really rich network of individuals that are highly connected and highly engaged and highly creative, and UM, when we start talking about wrap around services, what's really great about Atlanta is there are so many people that do so many things, and so our job is to go and find the best, you know, find the best to actually help our portfolio companies. And so what the wrap around services looks like. It looks like, you know, it looks

like having an entertainer as an advisor. It looks like a lacree shouting your product out on on television. It looks like you know, t I taking a meeting. It looks like all these um what we would what some may call like a mecca UM. But it's really about a synergetic ecosystem that's that when made efficient right when they're when their platforms, the the the institutions are in place to make that network efficient, the results are literally

limitless UM. And we have access literally to the world with the airport UM and then world class education and world class companies that that have the capital to help a lot of companies grow UM and increase their values. Sprinkle a little something on there will Yeah, that was a deeply educated answer right there, Like I'm like, go ahead, very I want all three of you to do this answer so um and so I mean just to hit the big major points. But I don't think I wanted

to sprinkle. Was that the other really dope thing about Atlanta is that people that are from Atlanta, you know, they're very sarticular about this, but Atlanta has a lot of transplants, right, A lot of people moved to Atlanta, whether it's for jobs, where it's for the culture, whether whatever. Lady moved to Atlanta for um and so what happens

is in ecosystems like it. And I think this is kind of the big difference from like I would say, the other coasts is that when somebody is successful in Atlanta, there's probably another ecosystem that's benefiting, like because you made a bunch of money here. And I know I'll let nominated anyway because I'm talking. But with Dr Nashville Seacatis, right, like park Pick was successful in Atlanta, she's from Jackson, Mississippi.

She's successful in Atlanta and goals and buys twelve acres of land in Jackson, Mississippi to build her tech club in her hometown. Still lives in Atlanta, but now you see this root, right like, you see this reach um there.

You know there are other co founder went back to Kansas City and he's doing work in Kansas City, right like, So now you have this roots when things happen in Atlanta, that they start to spread to Charlotte and you know, down to Florida and over here to Birmingham and Nashville and Memphis and all these places that people moved to Atlanta to reach this success. But it doesn't just stay here. And so that's one of the things I love about Atlantas that the seeds here they grow and german ate

in a lot of other places as well. Jo Man, my partners, they answer that one. But one thing I will add is there's something this is even though I love Atlanta and I could go on and on about how great Atlanta is, there's something else which is a tension right now in Atlanta where there's a fight for the city when it comes to black leadership, when it comes to black economic prosperity. And I think that you

have an energy around maintaining these things. And so for me, that's what keeps me motivated and keeps me excited, is like we have work to do here. Still there's a lot that we have to um maintain as far as what the foundations that Maynard Jackson set so many years ago. There's work for this new generation, those of us who have decided to land here. So that for me is like the thing of Okay, we can't let the hard work that happened and fifty years ago go to waste.

We have to make sure that we're maintaining the positions that we have. We have to make sure that what you know, the sad part of the city where you do still have a huge gap as relates to the haves and the have not, even in the black community. There's work to be done. And so I'm excited about the fact that we get to do that work here in showcase what can happen when there's intentional efforts in a city where you have leadership in these different spots.

The fact that Barry is over tech Stars social Impact and is building companies here in Atlanta, that is not by mistake. The fact that justin you know, founded with Joey Willman Gooding Nation to build social impact companies here in Atlanta is not by mistake. The fact that I took on the role to lead Google for startups here in Atlanta about the stake. So we're doing all these things to really set a different path for the city, building on what we've seen, um, you know from the past.

And Jill, I'll give you this, this final thing, and then I'll ask um some other answer a questions to all of you. Um. You wrote a postum a little while ago called while I always have two jobs, um, And there was a quote in there that I particularly stuck out for me and said, although I was able to make a life changing amount of money through the sale of part pick, I've always viewed this as a foundation of general generational wealth for my family, not as

a personal victory. Um. Can you talk about the personal responsibility you felt too, not just ball out and go, you know, go get the grill right, you know, the grills on order right, but to you know, also turned around and reinvest um that reward into your family and to other entrepreneurs, Like how important is it that we as black people who do something, who do reach that finish line and get that exit and make it get that bag, not just take it selfishly, but to keep

that not that it's not saying that you hain't do that stuff, Go get the grill, that's what you want through. But how important is it that we reinvest into our communities are people? Yeah, it's critical. I I don't think we cannot rely on anybody else to save us about ourselves. And it's gonna take all of us who have achieved some level of success to go back, turn around, help somebody else out, I mean, in my opinion. And maybe that's just the way I was wired, the way I

grew up. But it's a duty, it's a responsibility. Um. And and also it's it's like I have the skills, I have the knowledge, I have to give it to somebody else. So for me, that's it's just really important. And I would not feel right if I, you know, retired and said, okay, doce is I made what I need to make I'm out here. I'm out of here. Um. It's like, no, I need to make sure that the next person, the Tracy Pickets of the world, you know,

can do ten times what I did. I I think that we know enough to make sure that the next one is bigger and better. And if I can be a facilitator of that, that to me is like everything. Then I can go and retire with I'm gonna see Joe pull up to the office tomorrow with a grill one that's gonna be right. Black Tech Green Money is

a production of Black and the Fro. Tech is produced by Morgan Dubon and meat Well Lucas, with additional production supported by Love Beach Your Raven near Born Special thanking to Michael Davis's Since the carsa von Yan you know, like the wine. Yes, that's his real name. Learn more about my guests and other Technis represent innovators at afrotech dot com. Go get your money, peace and love