The Burns Brothers on Serial Entrepreneurship

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So to be there with.

You doing this podcast talking about how we build or leverage technology to build wealth. Come on, man, doesn't get better. I want to see you there. Get your tickets today at black effect dot Com back Slash Podcast Festival. I'm with Lucas and this is Black Tech, Dreen Money. John and Mike Burns, known as the Burns Brothers, are serial entrepreneurs with companies in a variety of verticals like organizational culture and diversity, marketing, PR and events, hospitality, and lifestyle.

For the Burns brothers, what about.

The continent, said to them, this is your next move.

So Mike and I've been doing work in Africa for the last five seven years, so we understood kind of the opportunity that exists there and the need that exists there. But we also wanted to be a bridge between African Americans here in this country and then Africans on the continent. We recognize that Africa is going to be twenty five percent of the world's population in the next decade and a half, and so how can we be stewards for change?

So when you think about going into new territory, there's not just about having the dollars and resources to go open up, but there's also you know, political implications and not that And I don't mean like law and politics, but I mean but like nuances about being in a certain space that you don't necessarily know being from the proverbial outside.

So how do you do that.

When you go into a space like did you have local partners How did you consider this new territory to find that you know, we want to be successful here. This is the guy, the girl, the lady, the man that can help us navigate that.

Yeah, well you're exactly right.

So we specialize in the connection and the community, but we will readily admit we don't know Africa as well as is needed to deliver what we're trying to deliver.

So partnership is essential.

And so as John said, we've been doing this and integrating ourselves into Africa over the past five and seven years, primarily in the space of like helping to decrease the unemployment rates which are crazy across the continent. So if you're a skilled African Black African, about thirty percent of the time you will be unemployed. So these are people went to college and did all the right thing, they're unemployed, and if you're a black woman, that moves to almost

Across the cognitive Africa because.

They have a proposition that you can't bring multicultural or multinational organizations into or on the continent because the infrastructure is not right, so you need to build from scratch. So they actually building these cities and so with those three partners, they have feet and boots on the ground.

Plus they've just been great guides to ensure that we're.

Connected with the right people and doing the right things to set up for success.

You know, it's interesting when you said that, I thought about a question. I get asked a lot because I have three buildings commercial properties and they're in a Censius tract that is not great and so but the opportunity to build things that are great in this this tract is a really great opportunity. And so I'm my question is directed at like this the spirit of entrepreneurship where

Well, it's interesting and I'll turn it over to John. But like entrepreneurship comes out of problem sets oftentimes, and when you don't have a lot of opportunity, your whole life is a problem set, and so you have to create and figure things out. So if you think about just the richness of entrepreneurship in Africa on the continent, it's inherently already there, and so finding the talent to partner with, finding the talent to actually employ there to

So, John, I don't know if you have other pieces to add to that.

No, I totally agree.

I couldn't agree more that I think for us, based upon kind of the mindset that we kind of moved with, it was all aroun driving opportunity. It's this this wealth of enthusiasm, this wealth of knowledge, this wealth of talent, this wealth of expertise, but just the lack of opportunity.

I want to ask that same question kind of, you know, like about DC. Is you have HQ DC House now, which I think is fantastic, and.

I also have a social club.

I don't know if so, but I'm I'm I'm interested in this question of you know, is it important to have sort of a missing mission oriented social club, like dedicated to helping a community achieve you know, specific things or general things even not even specific things, or is it the social aspect of having a club to where you know, cool people just want to hang out with other cool people.

Is that enough?

Yeah, that's a great question. I want Mike to kind of jump in here too.

At our club is unique in the sense it's really based upon three core principles, right, So it's a social aspect which is really important. But for us, the almost more important aspect is a development both personal and professional. We think it's important to as people of color that we're being developed personally professionally, and so we have cohorts, we have workshops, we have classes that really focus on that critical piece and we always say why we want

It's really this.

Global community that we're trying to create that really kind of convenes black folks around the world, and we can kind of speak to that.

Some more too.

Yeah, please go in on this.

Yeah, and it is actually a really good question, a little because I don't know if it's an either or right. I think that at the end of the day, whether it be a social club or you're making a widget, right, you have to have like passion or drive around what you're doing. And so John and I just happened to have passion and drive about making a change and impact.

Why we were doing it.

Yeah, So I love your responses on this, and I want to go on a level deeper because when I think about, like take Soho House, you know, like they don't have to have a mission to galvanize people.

They could just open a club.

But like you and so, it's like when we do things, and I don't know if that's you know, just in here because of our history, but like when we do things, they tend to be more mission oriented and mine as a mission, like toe House has a mission. Like our job, I believe is to organize the community's doers.

So I have a social club.

That should probably just tell you a little bit about it, because if you don't know, so toe House is a private social club, you know it's for the city to well, then creative and entrepreneurial class and it's and it's built on the waterfront here in my hometown. It's twenty five thousand square feet. So we have that social parts, five bars,

Well damn, that's that's really good brother. So this is how I interpret it, and I like it just hits me right. Could we do it? Absolutely? Would it be successful? Absolutely? Where we have like a waiting list like some of our competitors. Could I mean it's a tough, but I think why why we tend to go towards like the impact and the community. I think there's something inherently built in us based off our history, that our survival is based off community, and also our strength comes from community.

Is very much tied to community.

So I think we naturally just migrate to it, even when we go into entrepreneurial ventures, because that's where we find our collective power. So I think we do, and we could be just as successful without the community our empowerment based aspect. But I think based off of our customer base, both you and ours, our we are our client and our customer base need the community aspect of it, probably more than some of our competitors.

Yeah you chime in on that, John, No.

I couldn't agree more.

I really have nothing to add, And I think I think it's to Mike's Moore. I think it's kind of based on the foundational fabric of who we are as people of color, and.

I think it's heightened.

By the continual kind of visible political climate that we live in in this country. Right we need safe spaces to convene and ultimately community to help us mobilize. And so I think whether it be your membership club which is super dope Maa, so congratulations that sounds incredible, or it's ours or others, I think the foundational framework of what we do as people of color is mobilized through community.

And so it really begs the question to.

Your point, when can we get to that point where it doesn't always have to be around how can we change the narrative.

How can we move our culture forward?

How can we just get together and have a good time right that doesn't have to be built on some other framework.

Yeah.

Do.

I didn't plan on going this deep on this because but I love your responses to this.

Do do you think about so I have in.

The other spaces we have like we're building a market, And immediately ninety percent of the people I tell that I'm building a market, grocery store, etc. They assume that I'm going to try to.

Solve the food crisis issue.

And I would imagine when one of our less melanated part friends may say that they don't get that assumption. But when I say I'm going to go build a market, people assume I'm going to go try to solve the food crisis, food desert issue. And I'm like, I want to compete with Whole Foods. I want to compete with Trader Joe's. And at what point can we think.

That way versus always.

Trying to And again, if you want to do that food desert thing, that's I applaud that, and I think we should do that. But we also have to see people like yourselves building beautiful spaces just because we want to enjoy beautiful spaces, and we want to be around other people who are like minded in that way that they want to enjoy.

People who enjoy beautiful spaces.

And know what's so interesting? Right, So when John and I, HQ is one of the other, Like, we have multiple companies that sent under the Burns Brothers organization. HQ's one of them. One of them is like a marketing and branding company. And I remember when we first started it and we also have an event company. I said John, I don't want to be like the best black market, right. Yeah, I don't want this company to like hire us because it's African American or Black History Month, and so they're

In the world.

You come to Styles right by the Verns Brothers, not because it's black. And so I completely agree with you. I think the issue we face, and it goes back to like community and all the other stuff, is that we don't control the narrative, right, And if you don't control the narrative, you're just righting the wave of the narrative.

You kind of just kind of take it takes you where if it wants you to go.

And so community numbers are so important, the fact that we will be the numbers if we connect and we have this point of kind of community, then we can have the volume to start controlling our own narrative, and not just our narrative, but the narrative of the whole ecosystem. But right now, I think when you go to that food example, is that we don't control the narrative, and

Yeah, as really good.

So I asked Quintin Harris, Who's I believe you guys know Quinton. He's a co founder of CEOI Retrospect there in DC. And I asked him to send me a couple of questions for you guys. I wanted to ask somebody who's experienced your spaces and know the you guys's work. I'm like, I wonder what he would ask if he was given this opportunity.

So he sent one.

He sent two, actually, but this first one he said, they have very strong views on black excellence and how it restricts inclusivity and collective progress. How are they intentionally redefining the meaning of black excellence?

Mike, you want to take that one. I got to think through it. I love that question.

I love Quentin's a great guy too, So when I take it, I can kind of follow up.

So funny enough, we actually own the trademark to a phrase called blaxcellents.

We have like the domain.

We're not sharing exactly what we're dealing with it yet, but we got to figure it out.

But it's tied directly to this question, right.

I think that how we look at black excellence even as black people is like very narrow, right, and we actually then reinforce and reaffirm that by who we celebrate around excellence.

It's usually athletes, it's usually entertainers.

I mean, we're on a podcast with a brother who is the chairman of the board of.

The University of Toledo, Like, that's black excellence. Yeah, And so how do.

We tell stories that are stories that are never been told, are people who have never been highlighted that actually show the whole gambit of.

What we do as people and how we do it better? Than anybody else.

We grew up, like I said, in the Civil rights era where grandfather was part of NAACP, who took place in this context when were a.

Little kid called AXO.

I'm not sure if it was just based out of Texas or if it was like a national like kind of quiz competition.

On black history, right.

And part of what was so nice about AXO is that you had to learn how black people kind of dominated in all sorts of fields that you would.

Have never thought about.

And I thought AXO like define, like this is black excellence, right, Like what Carver did with the peanut is black excellence.

What what happened with Madam C. J. Walker? And here that's black excellence.

I'm not saying that Lebron and all these old cats aren't black excellence as well. They are, but it's just so much bigger. And that's how I personally see it. And we need to tell the stories and highlight the things that aren't highlighted around what we're capable of and what we have done.

So John, yeah, yeah, And I think Mike kind of mentions the depth of the black experience to kind of what that looks like, right, And it's very We're not monoliss right, So we're very multi dimensional. And I think for us, as we try to build commit and especially a global community, it's highlighting these stories.

From around the world what black excellent truly looks like.

And so I think in the US sometimes we can get very specific around just what that concept looks like to us, But we are global black people around the world, and so to elevate that whole black excellence experience around the world is like our mission. And so I love that question because I really speaks to the opportunity that exists. Like what if we could highlight the young cat and a village outside of a crap what he's doing right?

Like?

Stuff like that is so dope to me because I think it not only educates us as black people around the multi dimensions of the black experience, but also really heightens what black excellence truly is.

So I'm an entrepreneur like yourself, with several businesses like yourselves, and there's this idea that some people will advise me, and I'm sure you've heard before, like you know, you should focus like on one like you should focus on this one.

Thing, et cetera.

And I've heard it say like a fist is a lot stronger than five fingers separated.

Like if you took all.

Your energy and you balled it up into one fist, you could make a bigger impact. And so I'm my question is like, how do you manage not just at a high level, but actually in the trenches, in function several businesses in such different categories and find success?

Like how do you guys do that?

The might have been on our team meeting this morning, meeting this morning, man, we spent three hours.

Talking about the exact topics.

Oh wow, yeah, because I think it's interesting, right, because the whole fist analogy is interesting, right, But at the end of the day, the fist is still five separate fingers, right, Like, and if you figure out how those five fingers, which might be five different businesses, how they're still connected to a common theme, a common purpose, then it works.

It's actually more impactful. So if you look at all of our.

Businesses, they may be on the surface seem very different, Like you got a membership house, but you also have a marketing company, and you have a diversity company, but you.

Also have a wellness and performance organization.

That is true, but all of them have the strand of delivering understanding that ultimately leads to change through different mechanisms, and no mechanism by itself is effective.

Of all the mechanisms working together, and so.

The day to day becomes not necessarily complicated, but it's manageable because everybody understands how they fit into the bigger picture, even if they operate or tied to a different organization. So communication, explanation and really helping people understand those points of connectivity is really important.

And then well just team, I mean having an incredible team, right, So I think everything foundationally goes back to team and the culture of the organization that really supports people to obviously be critical thinkers, to have grit, have integrity, have a selfless work ethic, but ultimately being aligned with the bigger mission around driving impact and mobilizing community, because I think everything we do again to Mike's point, well it

And so we talk a lot about access to capital, which I'm sure you guys talk about also, you know, and then having businesses in such diverse categories and like to your point, might they do intersect maybe not on the surface, but underneath. I imagine that might still make it

Can you tell it?

You tell it based upon kind of really helping them understand the journey of these businesses and how they ultimately became to form, and they were coming to being based upon addressing like a critical need and a gap that exists within kind of the work and the functions that we were operating in. So nothing was willy nilly, And once we explain like the level of alignment across all of our business functions and kind of that red thread,

I don't want to hire a random vendor.

I want to hire So everything makes because it's all a shared experience and a model that really is a line and synergistic across everything.

So from our ganage point.

It makes us.

It gives us a competitive advantage that other organizations wouldn't have that are just this, are just this because we bring all these superpowers together.

That ultimately supports it helps the whole Well, will.

You get it right?

It's like a brother that's run like multiple organizations. Like it's taking us a while to get that narrative type right because it's so every like there's so many one trick ponies out there like everyone just does this and once again that's cool too, write like not no shade on anybody, right, Like some people just dominate in one

Want to scale this to hit the vision that we're looking to hit.

Bootstrap it is probably not the way to continue to grow it to where it needs to grow. But now that we have this narrative tot tighter, I think it will be easier. But we still recognize that not everyone's going to still get it.

Who we go to, Yeah, we guys, we have so much in comment we should really talk more after this, but so I've got a couple more.

For you guys.

But you know, given the notable individuals who you guys have had and have as members in HQDC house, like, how do you leverage these connections to foster, you know, collaboration opportunities for other black entrepreneurs within you in the network.

I think it's just open lines of communication, right, and so we never approach members asking them to do as favors. It's more of them willing to use and leverage their network to ultimately support the community. And so it's really just being in community with people and ultimately understanding where the community is going, the community needs and how we

And so I think for us that's just incredibly special.

And what we had said when we started the house, we're like, okay, like our membership base is going to be different than certain of their competitors, right, Like people who we want to bring in are people are going to be pretty established in their career. They're usually like the onlies in the room. They have senior level of positions. But more importantly, they re walk into a traditional club or a house or an event, they're using the people that people are coming up to and saying, Oh, can

Role, who they work for, what they do, and it works out.

Add to that too, to Mike's point, and I to Mike's point where I think it's so again pretty amazing with HQ, the model that has kind of been created is, with the exception of CBC and DC, I've actually never seen anybody hand out a business card in HQ. It's really built on like authentic relationships. And I don't know well how much Son he's been in Washington. DC is the capital business.

Transaction, I imagine, right.

And so I think especially you know, with our in our community, and so I think it was such a kind of a treat for us to see that people actually forming authentic relationships and not just looking for a transactional relationship.

And so in the several people I've talked to recently, even who I have more entrepreneurial endeavors that are not like VC back door, et cetera. We've talked about staffing and how challenging that is specifically in post COVID days and especially with a marketing company like you have. You know, the freelancer movement is huge. And then you talk about hospitality where COVID change that landscape where you know it's hard to put people in kitchens.

And server staff hosts, et cetera.

Like how do you navigate those challenges such that your business isn't throttled for lack of talent personnel.

We're still figuring it out, brother, like real talk. This is like conversations every single day because what we've so luckily a lot of the businesses you have the ability to cross train and other people can cover down on people's jobs. Membership clubs are not that right, like like if you get this right, so you got to have someone at the concierge desk, and if that furs it isn't there. It's not like you can just call up Mike and Pennsylvania and be like, yo, can you cover

To Oh, I love that.

I mean it's the hardest thing, you know, and I recognize and it sounds like.

You guys did this position.

Also, you could be doing more business if you had more people, And that's the hardest part, Like if you could find more good people.

This this the.

Hard part is not selling, Like the opportunity is there, it's just the people to support the opportunity. That's that's when it's really hard, hurtful.

Yeah, bro, well you could.

I mean, like some positions we've been like interviewing for like four months. I mean it's like, but you're exactly right, and that's like the challenge because the opport teams exist. But you can't support the opportunities because you just don't have the people to feel the jobs. But yeah, it's definitely a daily challenge for.

Us along that thread, I imagine, because you know, again I feel so much similarity with you guys. I imagine some of the ideas and companies you started, you know, ultimately just don't work out, because this is the nature to be, Like, how do you set expectations on what success looks like or should look like at various stages to ensure your efforts are going into something that's worthwhile.

Yeah, so you know, full transparency, I call myself a serial entrepreneur, right, I've been like doing this entrepreneurship game for like a long time, and I have had way more failures than success as a matter of fact, Like obviously the Burns Brothers just the biggest success, and it's because I managed to partner with someone who I know

Seem sexy, like tech is sexy. Acts are tech sexy.

So people want to jump into things that they don't have the subject matter expertise in. Right, Like John and I know people we're passionate about, you know, change and impact for people of color. We're able to mobilize community. So what we do inside of HQ and the other businesses, it was a natural fit.

So it works.

Some of the other experiences that I have, Like at some point in time, you just know that is not working right, whether it be like man, I can't continue to take out my savings like type of.

No are are are that you know?

Like just I've had to reposition the value proposition twenty times because it isn't sticking.

Like whatever that reason is. It appears differently for different organizations.

But I think that everyone deep down inside they have to admit to themselves, but they kind of just know that it's time to move on and jettison what they were doing.

Yeah, and then well too, even under the Burns brothers, I mean we've tried things. I mean, my brother and I have been serial entrepreneurs in the sense, but also even with on the Burns where there's umbrella, we are constant dreamers, right, and so sometimes it takes like team members like our chief of staff and our CEO to be like, hey, fellas, dreaming is good, but we also have to make sure we're actually delivering on the businesses that we.

Have, right.

So it's also ensuring that you have those checks and balances internally, because I think big dreamers dream big, right, but you also have to be practical around what can be actually achieved, and so having those folks within the organization that can level set things too. And then also to not putting too much in your play. And I know we talked about the fifth and the five finger analogy, but I think there's also a value in really drilling

Yeah, Mike, you mentioned tech, and I think about I'm always interested, like when I see people's you know, the desktop of their phone, like what apps they have on I'm just always curious and like what apps people are using. And so I'm curious in how you guys, what you guys use for people out there looking for systems and technology to help them be more efficient, Like what do

Nelly, So can you talk.

About some of the things that you've used in your lives to make sure technical things that you've used to ensure that you're as efficient as possible.

Yeah, we're definitely were not necessarily a Slack org. We use a lot of Microsoft teams and we build all sorts of team channels that we communicate.

With each other.

On we've really started to adopt the platform, we're still testing it out called Copilot. So when you're looking at like outreach and how do you integrate your linked in with this kind of AI and kind of technology driven kind of outreach platform, so from a BD standpoint, so leveraging that from like a CRM standpoint, because we know how important it is to have the processes inside of the pipeline. We use an organization or a technology called pipe Drive to help manage all of that and all

But we're also as we're expanding.

The community and what we do, we're looking at other platforms as well that have more like a community engagement interaction model, which we look to roll out here and leverage in the next month or few.

So those are One.

Other piece that Mike mentioned too is like our project management tool right has been you know, an essential and critical piece to like obviously from a project management standpoint.

It's been since us since with us since we first launched, you know, a couple of years ago.

Yeah, a great tool.

Yeah, we use a signa on that side for the project management just seeing our stuff, and I've tried different ones I tried. I think it was base Camp we were using for a long time, and base Camp will tell you, like we know you guys, ask some more features, We're not going to build more features. And so at some point we needed more features than base Camp even said that they.

Were going to do. So we had to graduate, you know.

And I'm because I'm sure there's many more out there, but those have been in my journey.

Also.

Now one more from Quinton. He said family is family, and working with family, let alone siblings, can be a difficult task. What is your dynamic as family entrepreneurs? How do you make space for each other's individual brilliance?

Yeah, No, I think Mike and I definitely are stose siblings, right, We're only two siblings in our family, right, so it's he's my big brothers So Mike definitely can big brother me sometimes. So I definitely understand that dynamic. But I think we also recognize kind of the brilliance that we each kind of collectively bring and there's a level of respect that we have for each other, and there's a level of respect that we.

Kind of convey to the team as well.

But as you kind of go on this journey with your sibling, you ultimately realize kind of their talents, right, and you want them to really lean into their talents.

And I think over.

The last couple of years, we've been really great with letting the person with that talent be kind of leading that level, leading that area of expertise, and kind of take the step back with respect to other areas that the other person might have kind of more expertise in.

Yeah.

And I think if you like, use like a sports team analogy, right, Like the great teams have great players, but what makes them really great is they know I'm going to throw the ball and I know exactly where that receiver is going to be because I've been playing with them for so long.

Yeah, but it just it just happens.

And so when you have a sibling and there's only two of you, right, like we're the only people, the only kids of our mother and father. Like you spend your whole time together. Your whole life is together. So I know how John thinks. I know where John's going to be on the field, and I know what value John brings to the table. And so John is a very empathetic human being. I'm a very like like human right, And so you need both of those because you can't be always X, Y and Z and just give me

So, in closing, talk to me about twenty twenty four and twenty like.

What are you excited about.

Over the next year. We're ended in the first quarter. Now, what are you excited about over the next you know, a little bit of future?

Yeah, well, and that's a great question. And we're excited about a couple things. And I think the most thing, the biggest thing that I could say collectively or excited about, we're actually launching what we're calling the HQ.

House Global Network, where our.

Goal is to convene to build community with one million Black professionals around the globe by twenty twenty six. Right, we want to be this global convenor of black people around the globe. And so later this year, we're launching this concept in ten cities globally and more to come around what those cities are and kind of what that

I love that.

Yeah, And the only thing I would add to what John says that I'm excited about is the ability to like help change.

Mindsets of individuals. Right.

I'm a big believer that the biggest muscle that we have is our brain, but also the biggest anchor that we.

Have is our brain.

Right, and if we can do anything over the next year, and we're doing a lot of development stuff inside of the HQ ecosystem as well, like to help people unlock the anchor that's holding them down because they start to realize that unconsciously they were doing things that they were accepting things like if we can start touching those lives and shipping away to create that freedom because we're opening

Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity Afro Tech on the Black Effect podcast network in iHeart Media. It's produced by Morgan Devonne and me Well Lucas, with additional production support by Sarah Ergan and Lovebeach. Special thinking to Michael Davison, Ky McDonald. Learn more about my guests the other tech disruptors and innovators at afrotech dot com. Enjoying Black Tech dreen Money, Share this with somebody, go

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