Power one oh five New York City. En I Hire Radio Studios, Lower Manhattan. Charlotta Magne, the guy is one third of the Hall of Fame morning show The Breakfast Club, And I'm sitting in somebody's office at the radio station talking with him about how we amplify our good working business as the community. And they're talking about our moves and something we should talk about publicly. It's Charlotte main threat.
The need don't on how we talk about doing good work and inspire the next generation to think bigger, to think bigger than themselves. It's just like anything else. Right. If you're a rapper and you rap about the club, and you have about alcohol, and you have about drugs, and you have about dealing with a bunch of women, that's what you're influencing the people that are listening to you to do. Right. So for me, it's like, you
gotta talk about those type of things. We have to talk about some of the moves you make in business, you know, because a lot of the movies that I'm making business really are things that will better society, especially the black community. So it's like, Yo, you have to make people aware of those things because you're influencing the
next generation. So the next generation needs to know that you could be more than just you know, in the entertainment business, that you can be more than just an athlete, you know. I think about what I saw guys like Robert Smith, and you see the jay Zs of the world, and you see the things that they do. The Tyler Perry is like, of course, it makes you want to do just more good business, you know. So yeah, I think that's that's something that you'll see me show more.
I'm with Lucas and this is Black Tech Dream Money. I'm gonna introduce you to some of the biggest names, some of the brightness minds and brilliant ideas. If you're black, in building or simply using tech to secure your back, this podcast is for you. Tiffany l founder of The Budget NISA, is an award winning team Financial Education in America's favorite personal finance educator. She's been featuring the shows
like Good Morning America, NBC News Today, and more. She's the author of Getting Good with Money, which is a New York Times bestseller, the One Week Budget and To Live Rich Challenge series. I asked Tiffany with so many people just as skilled as she is in finance, but in their own verticals, what can they do that she did to finally break out and to get the attention
of the masses. So court thing once I learned to like let go and be myself, right, So I used to If you look back at any of my old YouTube videos from like ten years ago, I was stiff, like, hello, money is Tiffany? He said. Now I'm like, girl, your budget? What are you doing? You know? And so I So what happened was maybe like six or seven years ago.
I was like doing Alive and I want to ask a question, and the real Tiffany slipped through and I was like, oh, let me people look going back to professional. But the comments went crazy easy, like yes girl, yes, And I was like, oh yeah, right that okay. I turned it up a little more, then a little more.
Then I saw this it was either a documentary. Maybe I read an article where um Quincy Quincy Jones was talking about Oprah and said the best um I think she said, the best kind of piece of advice or compliment that he ever gave her was that what makes Oprah so special is this She's exactly the same on camera as she is off, and I know it sounds like okay, so I want no. I don't think people understand when that camera turns one pc of people change
and are different because you know, you're you're either insecure, you're like, oh my hair, do I look right? Do I sound right? So there are all these things that go through your head. So someone else shows up, it shows up differently than how when the camera turns off. Then you're like, all right, well so you know, and if you can do that, So I worked the last five years in particular to be the same Tiffany on
camera as I am off. And the closer I get, I'm still about eight, you know, depending like right now this is all to me. But like if I'm doing like good Morning America, you know, I'm like, you know, you know, I'm still about like sevent But the closer I get, the more opportunities open up. Because human beings are attracted to what is real and what is genuine, even if they don't feel it on the surface. They're attracted to like, you know, like the human and you
feels the human in me. So if I'm being myself, you feel it and you react to it naturally, And so that's Number one is I've gotten really close to being myself on and off camera. Number two is just some consistency. You'd be like, oh, people always ask me to mentor them and they're like, oh, you know, I just started my business a year ago and it's not going as good. I'm like, first of all, sister, you just got here. You're literally a year old. That's like
the baby saying why can't I walk? I mean you gotta call And then too, you know, you have a blog or you have a podcast and it's supposed to drop it every Wednesday, but I haven't heard your podcast drop in the last two months. You're just not consistent. Literally, some of people are winning only because they do what they say gonna they're gonna do, and they do it when they say they're gonna do it. That's it. Can you imagine eight percent of winning is just do I
do what I say I'm gonna do? Do I do what when I say I'm gonna do it? The vast majority of people, quite honestly, they don't either. They overpromise, they get overwhelmed. They just don't feel like if they lose interest. So I show up consistently, you know, and I probably say the last but not least is the truth is I try not to take it too seriously, meaning like take myself too seriously and allow me to be in alignment with how, you know, like with what
is out there for me. It's very easy to get distracted and say I ought to do this because this person is doing this, I ought to do that. So I really try to stay in my lane because no one can out Tiffany Tiffany, you know, and so once
I do, you know, So that's really it. It's like showing up authentically as myself, consistency and staying in the lane of Tiffany, and those three things are are how I've been able to do New York Times you know, um my book has been it was eight weeks on the New York Times best Seller's list, you know, a Good Morning America Today show. I'm the financial expert for the real Um. Literally just today I submitted something for news Week. I write for Bloomberg, you know, Wall Street Journal.
I mean there's there was one point literally where I had to tell like CNBC, like, is there anybody else that you know? I can't I can't do something every week. I'm tired. I'm gonna. I'm tired. I can't do an article I thing every week. Do you know any other experts? And I'm not saying that to flex, I'm saying that you want to know why. The news Week got emailed me this morning said hey, Tiffany running an article and I need some some some sales tips, you know, some
saving tips. And I woke up this morning and I had my my meeting. I was like, okay, so I saw it. Within an hour, I had written him back with the two tips and said, you know, please attribute me as Tiffany the budget needs to financial educator author, Your Times best selling author of Get Go with Money. He was like wow, he Now, guess who's going when they tight on a deadline? Guess what Newsweek journalist's gonna hit me back up? Again? He is, you know, because
he's like, yo, Tiffany is boom bom boom bob. You know, most of these outlets want you to just be primed and ready and consistent, and they'll come back to you over and over because you're super easy to work with. And so so let's go in on on that continent. You know, content is king, and I wonder what your strategy is like, did you pick one distribution channel? Is it like your blog that you just go in on to the you know, neglect of everything else, or is
it Instagram? Or have you figured out ways to you know, spread yourself across these different platforms to be able to reach people where they are. So at first, you know, my my only platform, because it's really what's kind of like, the only one available was was Facebook. So I put all of my time and energy into Facebook. Um, but what really helped me to expand is I created And this was accidental, and sometimes your best ideas are accidental.
I created something called my Liverage your challenge. It was this free online three recourse. Because everyone kept asking me individual questions, and I said, what if I that I used to be a school teacher for ten years and I had my master's in education, and I had been teaching this course at my local United Way, And I said, what if I take this course? And I put it online. So people who keep asking me the questions, I'm like, take a free course, go to literature challenge dot com,
which is still available. Take a free course, right, And so I said, I'm gonna get My idea was to get ten thousand people signed up, which I did by I want to say it was um January two fifteen or sixteen. And what happened in the course is that I did this accidentally, like I think, um, like Twitter just came out, and maybe Instagram came out like the next year or whatever. But you would coming to the course.
But what I was doing is effectively you would see it on Facebook and then you you said, you know, you registered for the course. Now I have your name in email, so that's one platform. And then when you were in it, I saw someone had this kind of like um click to tweet in one of their blog posts that I really liked, and I was like, oh, you mean you can. You can create a message in this box and people can just click it and then it will tweet out. And I was like, okay, so
I added click to tweet. So the way the course work was that it was an email course. Every day for three weeks I would give you one small assignment um that focused on that week's goals, you know, and um, so now you're in my inbox. Now you're on my email list. But then the daily email sent you to the blog to actually get the lesson. So now I got email. Already had Facebook, but now I got email, and I got blog visitors. And then when you're on the blog, I'm getting you the tips and I'm saying
click to tweet. Now you follow me on Twitter. And then like the three or four days out of the course, I would create a YouTube video lesson just to change it up, so now you're following me on YouTube. And then when Instagram came out, I'd be like, you know, share your you know, share your feedback here, and now I got you on Instagram. So that's how I really started to kind of go. I call it like um taking people on a tour of your brand. Facebook was the door, then you sat in my living room, which
is my email list. Then you use the restaurant, which was Twitter. Then you were like, you know, you know, let me see the kitchen, which was Instagram. You know. Then you so before you know that, one person has visited all of my platforms because of that challenge. So it was one of the The challenge was one of the best tools I ever created, you know, for my brand to grow, to grow the community, and to bring
them around the full tour. So I've got like really robust um following on all of those platforms, and so yeah, that's where it started with with one platform, and then I created something that allowed me to bring people through all these platforms. And I would imagine that, um, you weren't manually Okay, I'm gonna manually do this blower post, then manually do the YouTube, and manually do the Facebook, and then the Twitter and Instagram. So I would imagine
that there were some systems in place there. And my question is that how did you get the technical aptitude or did you hire out that opportunity for somebody else to be able to come alongside your team? And because well most people figure they don't have the resources to go do all those systems as well as you. Honestly, that's I disagree. I did that at my brocus So I said, okay, I want to build this course. I
don't have any money nor in my tech savvy. It's just enough for me to get on Zoom, so I said. Even now to this day, so I said, okay, what do you know how to do? Tip me? I said, I know how to email, and my blog I built myself, because you know, they have those blog platforms that it wasn't It was like, you know, if you can do Facebook. I tell people it's even easier now. Back then it was a little harder. I think I was using blogger dot com or whatever. But it's just basically a template
that you put your picture on. It looked terrible that you put your picture on and then you, you know, you just upload your blog posts. Right, So it wasn't I didn't have to be technically savvy. So that course was really just you joined my email list, and every day I emailed you, Hey, go to my blog for today's lesson. So there was no real tech savvy stuff I needed other than do you not how to send
the email? I think I was using like mad Memia design, you know, you know, and right, so it wasn't even like something like now we're use infusion soft, you know. But so it wasn't even some some sophisticated CRM. It was just a regular email list. I got you on the email list, and then every day I said, here's day one of the Literature Challenge. This week we're talking about budgeting. Um learn how to create your budget click here,
and then here took you to the blog post. So ahead of time, I wrote out the twenty one blog post and I wrote out the twenty one emails and then I just said, mad meet me on this day, send this email on day, to send this email on this day. And so what happened and that I found that my audience was like, this is so great and they were messaging me. And then that's when Facebook groups came out. So at the end of each blog post, I said, we want to talk about today's lesson, join
us in the group. And then my Facebook group became the place where it was like the community. I didn't have to build them, so I didn't. The first challenge or two challenges I did completely solo because I didn't need any super tech savvy. I knew how to use Facebook.
I knew how to send an email, and the blog it wasn't great, but I knew how to edit least, like, you know, use the blog Tampa that they created for me, so you don't need And to this day, that's still basically the way the literature challenges are run, and over one million people have done one or more of my challenges. One million on that same simple sending your email, go to the blog, sending your email, go to the blog.
That's it good for you? I mean, that's it's a lot of people in your in your sphere, and I want to I want to talk a little bit about because we have so many conversations in our world about
they're not being enough capital for black people to start businesses. Um, not the venture capital there's you know, there's an increasing amount of angel and angel capital, but there's still a touch of disparity, right and so UM for the men and women who will be listening to this and are using either their savings or their personal credit cards to build their business, how do you advise them to gauge to what extent they should be leveraging their personal holdings,
their security um to invest in a company. How how do you advise them to and to use that morning that should be there for the rainy day that should be there, you know, the bridge over troubled water, to invest in their things. So I'll say this that there is a place for VC funding. I don't have any where I am a hunter said funded and we don't have any debt. And we made ten million dollars last year.
This is just us, our little black business is doing what we do, serving black people, right and so, but ten million to one of these fast growth companies, is like, what because it's ten millions, ten years that we got here. For some people, they're like, what we did then that first six months? Yeah, but then somebody else owned your company. They're like, you know, like I make ten after I take home seven? Do you take home seving? Because I know the people not let you take them that big
salary because that business belonged to them, you know. So there's something to be said for I remember I was meeting with a young woman who started this great brand. It's entire and she's doing well, and she was saying, the only way to really have well is that you have to have an exit. And I was like, that's not true, you know, but that I get it because she had, you know, she had um um um DC funds,
you know, like embedded into her business. So yes, But in general, everyone, I have friends who regret taking money and friends who are so glad that they took money. To me, there's no right or wrong. You have to just decide for yourself if you're not gonna take money, be okay with growing slow. I don't know when did it become like you have to grow super fast and in doing so, I don't know if you've ever listen
to the podcast How I Built This. Sometimes you listen and you're like, Okay, so you grew this billion out of company and now you are one percent. Well, damn, I don't want that, you know what I mean? Honestly, I'm not interested in making someone else wealthy if I'm all the way real, other than my audience that I'm helping, I'm not interested in growing something. And then you like, yeah, go ahead, go ahead, girl. You know what that's called slavery.
You know our people are and we we apt that now. And so I say this is that, you know, be willing to grow slowly. I never grew more than what the company can there. I did take leaps here and there, especially when it came to hiring, but I would take a calculated leap where I would be like, for example, my first CEO, like I had already been business for like four or five years, but she was really good at organization and that's something that I lacked. And so
I remember telling her I'm launching this new business. I had a budget of thest to business. I have several businesses. The budget needs to business, which is the business of Tiffany. So it's like my New York Times best selling book Get It with Money, and my other books. It's speaking spokesperson work, Rand ambassador work, basically the business of Tiffany. But I said, I wanted to create a business that wasn't the business of Tiffany. So my second business Literature Academy.
So I told my CEO at the time, I don't, girl, I don't have no money. But what I do have, like, I don't have any money to pay you now from the business because that business has not launched yet. But I did. She wanted to make I think it was like three thousand dollars a month, and I said, okay, I've got six months worth of savings in my personal save. I had eighteen thousand dollars. I had cobble together, you know.
So I said, I got six months. We have six months to get Literature Academy off the ground so it can start paying you. So we worked our behinds off and we did it by months six. Right when my my savings was done, the academy launched, and uh and during that we launched, launch was like a week. We made seventy tho hollars that that during that launch. Now here's the thing. It sounds cute, but we spent it cost us fifty to make that seventy. Right, But because
my literature Academy was UM still in existence. UM it's a subscription based business. So although we spent fifty to them to make that seventy, that's because we have to build everything that But then the subscription started to roll
in so it was enough to cover her salary. So that's why I said, you want to make calculated risks, like, Okay, I'm not just going to drain my savings account and hope and wish and pray we had a strategic plan in place, like if I pay more, if I if I spend this expense, how can I expect to get that money back? If you don't have that plan in place, then you're likely to lose all of that money. I'm
not willing to do that. So that's what I suggest, Um, two folks that if you are going to you know, use your own money, do so make those calculated risks and and be clear of this is how I'm going to get my money back. This is the timeline and time frame. If if we don't, here's the backup plan to that. You know, we could probably go way fast. I mean, honestly, we could probably be at thirty million dollars a year right now in business, but that would cause us to grow in a way that's quite honestly
not sustainable. Because you hear people like you can make twenty, but we spend a twenty one to make twenty. That's why some folks are doing I'm not interested in that. We are forty six percent profit. You know, we've got a healthy profit margin. So so what do you say to the people who says, you know, we hey, but look, you could be you know, a two billion dollar business if you became something else, and you know, yeah, you might own point one percent, but that's still a lot
of money compared to the ten millions. So I'll say this that I I don't disagree with that, and so I'm actually building something out externally from that, meaning that for me, I'd like I'd like to have a little bit more diversity. So I have the budgetsa that's a business. I've got the literature academy that that is slow and
steady wins the race. It's like amazing money for me every year, and I'm building another business where um, I'm doing just that that is going to be like, it is my intention to grow in the next three years and sell it for about two hundred three hundred million dollars and take my cut from that. And so to your point, I'm thinking about that too, you know, but
I needed um for me. Security was most important because I had been so financially insecure for so long that the budget Issa and the Literature Academy gave me that. So now that my house is paid off, my rental property, home is paid off, my parents house is paid off, my student loan that's are gone. I'm literally debt free like a toddler. So now that I'm in a safe, comfortable place, I have a business that generates money for me no matter what because it's a subscription base. Now
I can take the risk for me. Now I can take that risk because if the risk doesn't work out, guess what, I will still make seven figures a year, you know. So for me, I all of my risk I take are not really risk. I'm like, m M, I know I could go for a billion right away,
but let me just go for my million. Feel good, make sure everybody good, we all fed, And now I could take the leap from a place that's not a place of fear, you know what I mean, Like I can take the leap from a place of like, you know, regardless of what happens. You know, I know I'm gonna be Okay, let's just go for it. So that's what's happening in phase three of my business development. So you know, there's this quote that says, how you do one thing
is how you do everything right. And and I wonder, if you can't manage your personal finances, can you be expected or um, can you manage business finances? Because I imagine some people will have the excuse of, like, look, I'm not making enough, so I'm always messing up because I'm always trying to play catch up. But they may have this idea that could potentially get them out of that situation. How can they be trusted with the money to do it? So I wonder to what extent is
that excuse valid? Um? I think it's very valid because of one at the very least, if you are stressed personally when it comes to your finances, then it's gonna be very hard for you to develop a business without that fear in the background. Okay, you know, we really got to make money. I just you know, it's hard. I'm not saying that. Now here's the thing. I develop a budget and stuff from that space in place because
I I had nothing. But it's really difficult to stay focused because now you're making choices where you're just like, is this good in the long term or is this a quick buck? But that quick buck might mean So for example, let's just say you partner with the brand and they're like, hey, Tiffany, you know, like beginner Tiffany, will pay you ten thousand dollars for us to be able to use your use your likeness for the next year.
In the beginning, you're like, oh, I'll take that ten thou because I need it, you know, I gotta pay these bills. And then what happens is as you're growing and developing your brand, you have all these other brands I want to work with you, but guess who can't
work with them? You because you're in the contract for that year, and there was a five thousand dollar or two thousand or two or three or four altogether, that's fifty thou dollars that you could have locked in, but because you're locked in for that ten you're like dang.
And I'm sharing that from like experience where I've locked myself in because I'm like, I need the money now, and I'm like, okay, but I learned the lessons to say, if if someone's going to lock me down, it has to be a significant amount of money, more than what I can anticipate based upon last year what I would
make if I was gonna partner with multiple people. So, but if you are reckless with your because I've seen people who are reckless with their personal finances, not just I'm having a financial hard time because maybe you lost your job or whatever, but reckless, You're likely going to also be reckless with your business finances. And if you have the pleasure and the privilege of having a team,
you put everybody at risk. I don't play that. And so you know, you do want to get yourself financially together because also to you to work with financial professionals, like you might have a CFO, you might have a controller, you might have a bookkeeper, you might have an accountant, but you're gonna want to know what you're looking at, you know, and so you can't just um um give all the financial control away. And so getting your personal finances in order. It's definitely a major key in making
sure your business is also sustainable. You know, you talked about how you know you were in that situation. You know you built your business from a state of being broke, and um, I wonder what was the break that you had that set you on a different trajectory. So, like, I'm broke today, but tomorrow, because this thing happened, I'm finally free, you know the proverbial sense of free. I'm out of those those weeds. And how can we be
intentional about making sure that that break happens? So for me, I remember, for me, it was connection to different people. Like the first five years, it was just me, me, me, me, me in this little hole. I got myself to, like I think I got myself to a hundred fifty thousand dollars a year in business, which is really thirty five thousand. I'll saycom those of y'all who know will know, like, because you gotta pay bills and you gotta pay Uncle Sam. So people only make six figures. I'm like, no, my
business makes six figures. I make lesson I did as a preschool teacher. But I said, don't let people pool when they're like, oh, I'll make I'm like, is that your business? You know? And I'm always transparent with our numbers. I think that's important, right, So so what what what transformed it for me? Because I had it took me almost six years to get to six figures and then I met um So the budgets still a hundred percent mine, but I met my business partner. He wasn't my business
partner at the time. His name is Jabriel, and he was like, why are you doing it this way? You could do it this way. It was a new injection of new information. He's like, like, for example, he said, have you ever heard of an affiliate link? And I'm like now. He was like, well, what tools and resources do you use? And I said, here's a list. He said, do you suggest them to your to your artists? I said yeah all the time. And he was like, do you know some of these companies will pay you to
suggest them. I did not know that and he was like, girl, make a list and we found all, like you know, of the ten ten businesses, maybe there were three that had an affiliate program that was public. So instead of just giving a regular link like business dot com, it was business dot com slash Tiffany, and all of a sudden, that was an extra thousand dollars a month that was
coming in for something I was already doing. And I was like, oh, so what I learned is that after partnering with your brood, to learned that there were other people that I started to connect with that like you know, you're really looking to either learn from them virtually meaning like watching their videos and listening to their podcast whatever, or you know, sometimes you get the partner in real life,
or you go to networking event. You need to be amongst people who are have done it or are currently doing it because it will expand your capacity. So what helped me go from literally five years five or six years took me to get to six figures, It took me two years after that to get to seven, and then it took me a year after that to get
to um to eight to eight. You see how quickly that learning curve was, Like you know, so I was like, Okay, it's the expansion of capacity, you know, Like I was thinking so small and even now I fight to not think small, that to think deeper, to think wider, to expand my capacity for what is possible. Because I was just thinking that I have a business coach now. And I was telling him the other day like, I don't know, I keep getting this like vision that I'm gonna, like,
you know, make fifty million dollars, you know. And I told him this idea that I'm rolling out. He was like, are you sure that's what I'm saying fifty million? I was like yeah. He was like that idea is more worth more like two hundred millions based upon the market. And I was like, okay. He said, now the fifty million is likely going to be what your take home is. Maybe that's what your vision is telling you. But in my mind, I'm like two hundred million, no, because it
feels so impossible. And then I, um, he invited me to this like um entrepreneur kind of like shin dig. We're literally everybody there. There are people there were like, oh we made two million last week. It was so great, So we're gonna have a company for her. Everybody ain't on social flexing, so that normalization of that like oh yeah, we built our company, like you know me and you know, I met him at the last meeting. We built a company in six months to a million dollars a month.
We just sold it for seventy million. I think we should do that again. That's fun. And you're like, wait, what that Expand I'm over here sweating like I'm dont make it to my ten million, and they're like, oh, that's so cute. Ten So how's that going. And meanwhile, these people that you would never see on social are just are just making money at like a level that seems so insane and crazy because we don't see it see it posted on social because they're not trying to
get robbed and every known new business. And so for me and for anyone who's wanting to go to the next level, it's gonna require you to expand your capacity. And some of the best ways to do that is take a look. It's in a book reading Rainbow Read. I mean, damn, people don't want to read. Read like you know, if you want to read this is my
day in a black Moment. Get Good with Money tend Simple Steps to Becoming financially Whole, my New York Times best selling book available at Get gives Money dot com. But no, sincerely, like I'm even now I'm reading Atomic Habits right, which is like helping me to open up my mind, like, Okay, before I read David, David and
Goliath by Malcolm Gladwell. He's one of my favorite writers, Like how what David Malcolm Gladwell works writes really amazing books, um, that can be used for your business, but they're really books about kind of like psychology. Where David and Goliath he talks about was David really the underdog? That sometimes really being the underdog is your best asset and how to use that. So and before that, um, I read Delivering Happiness by Tony Shay. So he's the owner of Zapples.
He passed away recently, but he was a billionaire and his thing was all about company culture. So I had me looking at my own company's culture to what we could do better. So I'm constantly reading to expand my capacity. That's one to talk to people, talk to people who are doing similar, better, whatever than you, so you can think beyond what you know. You don't know all the things. The best thing that you can know is you don't know anything you know, like expand your capacity that way.
And the third thing is expand your capacity through experiences. Nothing teaches you better than actually seeing, tasting, doing One thing I do, like once a month is I find one of the wealthiest neighborhoods around here and I drive through because it's a reminder that fifty people in this neighborhood figured out how to get themselves a five million
dollar home. Sis they are smarter than you. As a teacher, one of the things you learned as a teacher is that eighty percent of the student population is of average intelligence average meaning smart, ten percent have have challenges, you know, where they really need additional assistance, and ten percent are super super smart, like geniuses. These people that live in these houses, it's to any percent. This is not Bill Gates that lives here. It's some regular deecular people. You
part of the eighty You can live here too. So I'm always trying to expand my capath to be like, no, no, no, no, let me experience that, like, Okay, they're not smarter than me, why can't I live here? Of course you can, And so experiences, um people and books are one of the greatest ways to expand your capacity. And that's the difference between where you are to the astronomical growth that's ahead
of you. I love it. I love it. And you started off that response talking about something that's super important for entrepreneurs, and I was taxes, right, And you know, increasingly I see things on social that talk about how the tax code was written to incentivize entrepreneurship, business owners
and employing people and growing enterprise. What I wonder is, like, is there anything missing from that conversation that's not happening far enough to where regular people, you know, maybe leaving money on the table or paying too much to Uncle Sam's like, how can we take advantage of this code
if we are entrepreneurs? And if you're not planning on being an entrepreneur, but still you know, how to figure out ways to you know, hope keep some of that money to be able to deploy it towards you know, building wealth. I'll say this that if you're not an entrepreneur, there's not that much in the tax code that's to your benefit. Quite honestly, this is why you hear about the people say that, you know, the middle class is basically carrying everybody else, you know, so um, those