Afro Tech is back in Austin, Texas this November is the place for all things black, tech and Web three. The in person afro Tech Conference experience is bridging the worlds of afro technologists, innovators, investors, corporations, musicians, and everyone in between. So pull up, grab your crew, and grab your tickets and join us at the largest black professional conference of the gear. This experienced the afro Tech Dot
count to learn more. Okay, simon Seattle, as I kick off my end of Q three into Q for Traveling Sprint's typically the busiest time year for me, as I'm back on road doing all the things. I'm not in the studio this week Mountain Streets, but the show you Better Believe goes on. Currently. I'm here in the Emerald City of Seattle as a mentor for some black owned
businesses and startups working to accelerate. Next week, I'm in l A for afro Tech Executive, a prestigious event for black leaders in business, and I'm super excited about that, and it's not too late to get your tickets to be there as well so we can meet each other. So this week's episode, I'm actually throwing it back to what I did with Courtney Adelaia, who was CEO and founder at the main choice of black wellness and hair
care brand. Because I speak to so many consumer package good companies and the health and wellness space, even though it with hair care products like I'm doing this week here in seattle't I want to run this conversation back for anyone who missed it because there's so many gyms in it. It's full of thoughtful insights on why it's so hard to break from the pack, of all the people formulating hair and skincare products in the kitchens and basements, to how to get on the shelves of major retailers
like Target. There's so much here and the content from Courtney's advice is so timeless that I'm proud to have this in the archives. So join me and then joining this runback. Afro Tech, San Francisco, California, Frederick Hudson, co founder and CEO at Pigeon Ley of technology that helps you affordably stay connected with your inmate from any phone, tablet,
or computer. It's on the afro Tech stage telling the story of how he and his co founder, Alfonso Brooks, realized the opportunity for improving communications between loved ones and state confederal inmates, and found success by leaning into their unique perspective on the world. I'm gonna tell you how we hustled from idea to a product market fit. Essentially, Uh, the idea started with me. I started close to five years in federal prison for distribution to marijuana. Don't feel
bad for me. It was lots and lots and lots and lots of lots of marijuana and um. And it was during that time I saw it this huge population of people that no one is paying attention to, and we all had the same problem. It was incredibly for cool and super expensive to stay in touch with your loves. So while I wasn't nice, I like to send the ladder. It's like, y'all got this idea. We're just gonna we're
gonna make a million dollars. We're just gonna make it real easy for people to send photos and to the lowest in prison. No one's really done that yet. So we get to the halfway house. I hit the mouther and says, yeah, I'm with it. We take his student
loan money. We take his student loan money, and we start building a product and you know, I just want to go through some of the steps and some of the things that we learned along the way, taking that grand idea that you have in your head to actually get something that has product market fit or more importantly, that can get some traction. Because early on I made the classics found of mistake. I thought my problem was I needed to get money. I need to get fund and I need to get fun, and I need to
get fun. I spent a lot of my time chasing dollars. What I realized is if I focus more on the product, all those other things come a lot easier. Whatever you're working on has to be personal. You have to have that strong way to win. For me, it was really personal because I lived in and I had that experience. I knew how it felt to be there. I knew
how it felt too, how important it was. And I saw the direct connection between people being able to staying in touch with the loaves on the prison and not returning back to prison. There was a direct connection between communication and the recitizens a break. And you need that when those things gives out, because when it gets funky, and it will get funky, you need that really strong wine, that that real hard desire to win to kind of get you to those moments, because ship will go sideways
more than you think. You gotta look for your unfair advantage. For me, it was I was there, I understood it. I've been there. I was the best person to fix that problem because I knew what people needed. I knew what they wanted, I knew what the market needed. Sometimes, when we were early on, we went to our first investors that our first pictures, Uh, people couldn't really wrap the around or the brain around investing in number one a black men, Number two a black men. That's also
a feling. I never went to college, so I had to use my unfair advantage of because I knew this market better than anyone else, I was the best person suited to fix and adjust this problem. Your unfair advantage can't be copied, that it can't be bought as uniquely yours. Figure out and look internally and figure out what is your unfair advantage or whatever idea of problem met you're looking to solve and leverage that. I'm Will Lucas and
this is black tech, green money. I'm gonna introduce you to some of the biggest names, some of the brightest minds and brilliant ideas. If you're black, in building, or simply using tech to secure your bag, this podcast is for you. As founder and CEO of the main choice, Courtney adelaide A Build her Hair empired in that sales of over twenty five million her the last reports we could find from September twenty nine. The company was acquired
by Math Beauty Brands. Her products are sold in over twenty tho retail stores and boast a lineup of more than ninety hair treatments vitamins. I asked Courtney about how to scale of health, hair care or beauty brand and remain profitable when the consumer is increasingly particular and highly interested in the chemicals involved in making the products. I think it's it's very important just to stay true to,
you know, really where you started. I think, you know, different companies have a different initiative and how they get to that growth. And a lot of companies say, well, we'll get to that growth by changing the product a little bit, making it more economical. Someone said, well, we'll get to that growth by going international, by doing other things.
So for me, it's about staying true to what I what I started saying two to my products and look at those races to grow that we're not just jeopardized or you know, paying to any type of thing that I started, you know with the actual product itself. So you really have to know your growth strategy and there's different ways to get there. But you know, changing the product for me that was never that was you know,
something that I just wouldn't stand for. When you look at the field of black women and men who are often beauty health wellness companies, do you think they go hard enough? Like where what keeps them from achieving the type of level of success you've achieved in this industry generally speaking, do I think they go hard enough? I would, I would have to Unfortunately, I would have to say no. I think for some reason, people think that when you operate on an average level, or if you're able to
excel um by just giving average. I think sometimes people think that's enough. But in order to really scale something and take it to the next level, it is going to require blood, sweat and tears that I've come to the conclusion most people are not willing willing to do, you know, or they think that giving normal or average is okay and it's not. What are some of those mistakes that people cut corners on that keep them from like,
what are some of the typical things you see? I think some of the typical things, uh, just the initiative. You know, when I say you have to layer things on, I mean you have to be from a social perspective, you have to be you know, you have to put yourself out there from a personal perspective, run your personal social media as if it was a business, with strategy and timing and win and professionalism. And then on the flip side, you have the business, you have to do
the exact same way. So there's a lot of bells and whistles that goes along with it that can be achieved, but you just can't corners in regards to like the time, it's twenty four hours a day. I have never since I've been in business. But they do not disturb I'm out of town email, you know what I mean. I just never have I'm going to respond to it or you know, I'm gonna get to it a little bit later.
But it's it's just NonStop. It's always, it's continuous. Now, I love that you talked about the personal input, like the personal profiles and et ceterer because I wanted to know, like, how do you build a sellable asset, a sellable brand without becoming so core to it that if you're not the face of it any longer, it no longer works. How do you do that? You got to look at the bigger picture. I think for me, it was always about building a business, building businesses and have an ability
to actually scale them, you know. So for me when I work on the project, you know, I never get into it like, Okay, I'm about to build this thing to sell. But to be honest, this is how big business goes. Like there's companies has created strategically how do
we position this thing to sell? But I think for a lot of people entrepreneurs, it really doesn't work that way because you have to attach yourself from a passion perspective, and if you're constantly thinking I'm gonna sell it one day, it's not going to necessarily do what you wanted to do, you know what I mean. So you have to keep your enterprize, which is it's being passionate about what it is that you're working on and just again just give it, give it your all. Is direct to consumer um a
better opportunity. These days, I think about, like, what what is the process like to get into retail? Like so many times you hear companies who spent thousands of dollars getting boots at conventions and traveling the shows to you know, do the Dog and Pony show. How is it really accomplished to get into retail? Like how do you set yourself apart when you got I think the most the best way to think about getting into retail is to
not think about getting into retail. If you start your business and you're constantly thinking what can I do to solely get into retail, retailers are looking for businesses who are actually popping outside of retail, so you have to think about it. These are regular people, these buyers, There are people just like you and me. They're taking a
chance on you. This is their job. So if you have not shown that you can succeed outside of retail, because some for some reason, people think that when you get on the shelf, oh my god, not a retail is gonna take off, the gonna advertise for you. You have to drive your own business. So if you can't survive outside of retail, you won't be able to survive inside.
So if you treat your e commerce website as if it was a legit retail resources, strategy, finding a team, how to build it, scaling it, making an assessment you it's easy to get into retail. They know who you are. The demand is there, people are talking about it. But if you think about it a little bit less and concentrate on your brand, on the growth of your company, then retail is gonna be inevitable. It's almost like a DJ. If you got a hot song, he's gonna play it.
You know what, if it's hot, it's hot. So you have to focus on making your brand that hot that once the retailer here, it it's automatic, like you're coming in here automatically, you know, because we've heard about this brand. The customers are calling. Now we're gonna come back to the main choice. But I do want to talk about you've got a master class now and you're teaching people, you know, all across the CpG particularly may be helping
your hair and et cetera, how to do this. What can you give me like the elevator pitch for this master class and what they well, people get out of it. I will say what they get out of UM is that one on one giving you what you need, that that's basically different from the next person. I think it was hard for me to say, let me prerecord this stuff and just like sell some type of master class.
But everybody needs something that's different, something that's customized. I work with people who have no idea how to operate social media. I work with people who have no idea what the E I N and entity form and the entity is. I work with people who have no concept at all of a business. I work with people who have sold over a million dollars. So there's it's hard for me to prerecord something to say, well, this is
a one size fit all. Is not a one size at all when you look at the route that journey, every journey is going to be a little bit different. And the only way that I'm able to do that is by me physically sitting down talking and answer actually those questions individually, because the responses is going to change.
It's going to be different across the board. UM. And as I mentioned, you grew up in Detroit, and I think about the work that you've done based on your success, like the philanthropy work that you getting involved in you know,
you started to pay my bill program. Um, how much of you know, the work that you do today speaks to where you come from, like being from Detroit, And because I talked about this often, being from the Midwest, you know, forty five minutes away from where you grew up, we were so heavily innundated with the manufacturing and automotive and etcetera. And at least in Toledo, maybe in Detroit it was different. We didn't have that entrepreneurial spirit you know,
percolating around us. But the people who were successful were successful because they worked at GM or G or etcetera. How how do you see your role as you know, a role model to you know, and the giving that you do as impactful for people who want to want to have the kind of success that you've achieved. Um, I would definitely say, you know, one thing about you know,
being from Detroit. Even if we didn't have what we consider like that traditional you know, entrepreneurial leadership, what we did have and what we continuously have, and I think it's the same thing where where you from is that hustle.
At the end of the day, we're gonna find a way to make ends meet, We're gonna find a way to feed our family, you know, And I know for sure, uh my foundation being from Detroit and just not giving up, knowing that there's other opportunities that this door says, uh it's closed, or as someone says, no, there's another opportunity out there. So I may can't do it here, but
I can go around you and find someone else. So I definitely believe, you know, having that that that whustle um that I grew up in definitely helped achieved to kind of you know where I am today. Sure, Yeah, And I read that you a registered nurse, you know, are in by background, and I imagine you probably didn't imagine that that you would be doing what you're doing today, Like how does that how do those looking back, how do those steps piece together to allow you? Yeah, I
definitely believe having my my science background. One thing about nursing is we're so rare around it, Like we have to do science, chemistry, statistics, sociology, like there's so many things that we have to go through, um, just to become a nurse. And sometimes we hear about the nursing shortage out there is not really a nursing shortage. It's just that the people who are nurses are not entrepreneurs and they're doing something else. It's one of the only
fields you can go in. And the day you graduate and start working, you're now responsible for like many people live, so you grow up overnight. Now you're thinking has to be crisp, you have to be on point. You can't make mistakes. There is no you a fresh new nurse, We're gonna allow you room to have a mistake. Like, that's not an option. So I know for sure, having my medical background, just understanding even learning here from a science perspective, I'm like, can we grow hair? Can black
women grow long hair? I never thought that I could have hair all the way down to my waist. I didn't think it was possible. But as I as I started to mature and just really um just doing research, I'm like, yeah, we can't achieve it if we do things a little bit different. So now my science bright ground is kicking in. Now I'm mixing things and and and and testing things, and I'm like, no, we can
grow hair. And to grow my hair from here. All my life as an adult, it's been here too, down to my waist definitely tells me that there's a science to it. We all know somebody who started their health and wellness company, whether it be haircare or skincare, and there's a point to where it makes sense for them to make the products in their kitchens. There's also a point to where it makes sense to go big and
find the manufacturer. But how do you know which manufacturers a copactors to trust when the wrong batch can ruin your brand for good. Courtney speaks on it. One thing for me, um and that could say, you know, different folks, different strokes. When it comes to anything that's like chemical bound water base, I have to have that stuff done here, Like when it comes to international I never felt comfortable when necessarily doing any type of chemicals elsewhere. I made
this stuff in my kitchen. If someone is going to duplicate it for me on the on the largest scale, I must have the ability to walk in to see if they're doing the right thing, using the right thing. Nothing is changing, no chemicals, no extra chemicals, And I think it's really about finding the right partner. This is you literally can google right now a manufacturer and every one of the biggest players in the game is going
to pop up. The problem is people don't sit down and do the research and actually interview because at the end of the day, they're working for you now. So I think sometimes we feel a little intimidated, like, oh my god, who do I reach out to. They're not gonna think I'm big enough? But you're paying them. They shouldn't have that. They can't change anything without your ability
to do so. Unfortunately, I was able to pay attention to my e commerce dot com before I really needed to go mass manufacturing because I was able to make a lot of money right at home without necessarily cutting the check to someone else. So when we look at what is a tech to actually scale and to lose money. But by this point, fortunately I have enough money to start doing testing and making sure that chemists are doing what they're doing. But I ran my company at home
for three years. I made ten million dollars at home, so I'm gonna I'm gonna correct the twenty five because I got to do that. So we hit a hundred We hit a hundred million sales, but I was able to do a lot of that at home. Like so again, this is why if you don't let me express anything, pay attention to your dot com that is just as vital today as a retailer. It's even more vital today.
So so is it important that these people, women and men who are building these wellness, haircare, beauty brands be just as good at the craft as they are at they at social media and marketing. How do you do that? That's that's the tough part, and I think that was one of my initiatives. But even having like the master classes, because I understand that everybody may not have everything, and I can say I have everything, but one thing about me.
When I look to expand my team, I'm looking at the areas where I know are my weaknesses, you know what I mean. So instead of me looking for to hire someone to do what I do, I don't necessarily need that. You if you if you know you're struggling in some areas. And one thing about social media is this.
Sometimes they scare as people and they said, well, you know, let me hire your social media manage I'm like, note, if you tell my massive class, I'm like, no, we're gonna learn it because this is the one of the areas that you can do for free. The key is necessarily sometimes not how much money you make, but how much you can keep so if you don't necessarily have to pay extra people to do these things. I want
to teach you how to run this thing yourself. And once you start needing some help at this point, it should be a man power help because you've got so many orders you physically can't ship them yourself. But for the things that you can do do I think people can learn them? Yes, is it? It's it gonna be harder, Yes, it's gonna take extra time. Yes. So I don't like to, you know, tell people get them like false holds, like this is so easy. It's not easy, but this is doable.
So if I if I can do it, I'm legit telling you you can do it too. You can learn how to do it too. Definitely, I'm glad you bring this up because I've I've seen a lot of people you know, with shape butter companies and lotion companies and hair companies in the center, and I'd like you to speak to like knowing your numbers a little bit, because like how do you price in early? How do you get to figuring out what those unit costs out? Like
what does it cost to make one bottle? Right? That is such an interesting conversation and topic because it's the number one pain point when I do the master classes, I ask somebody their costs. Most people can't answer it. How much does it cost you to make this this product? Or they'll tell me, oh, it's this. I'm like, wait a minute, are we talking about the top, the bottle, the lead, the ingredients? And they're like, okay, well you okay, let me add the Wait a minute, who ship this stuff?
Did it shipped from there to you? And who paid for this shipping? Why pay for it when you have to put this shipping costs in there? So if you don't know your numbers, if you don't price your stuff right, I've seen it once and I would definitely say that is one of the leading causes why people cannot scale
their company. There are some people out there who have good products, good services, but this stuff is not price right and they're like, oh my god, I Legit had ten thousand dollars in sales this month, but I have zero dollars in my account. How your numbers is not right. You can't even afford to run a sale if you wanted to. You can't even get off. You can't get free shipping if your numbers is not price where it's supposed to be. So I think that's that's that's that's
definitely up. There is number one. There's number one. So does it require building a CpG company consumer package of good company? Does it require venture funding? How they? How can you bootstrap this? No? I think nowadays, and I like, I got a philosophy that says grow as you go. That means you could go out there on social media. You can, And this is why it's important that I teach how to run social media and grow it because
these are quote unquote free ways to market. If you make a dollar, and this is one thing I was always committed to for years. Every dollar that I made, I put it right back into my company. You spend to five thousand dollars to build your company. And let's say you you had four thousand dollars worth to sell, Well, you still haven't made any money yet, you know what I mean, because you spend five So that again, that's that's that's the tough part. But can you grow as
you go? You don't necessarily have to get funding, you know. And the one thing I always say, especially African Americans, we don't need funding. We need support. That's what we need. We need support. And I think if you have a good connection with your consumer, which is one thing that's top of my priority, I'm gonna make sure I give a good product, make sure I ship on time, make sure I'm transparent if there's any hiccups along the way. You have to be transparent with your consumer. We have
we all have them. I never asked for someone to give me a pass or I need two weeks to get this product to you. If there's a hiccup, I'm going to come to you directly as the owner. We've had a hiccup. This is how I'm going to resolve it. And when you do that, no one can. They can't help but to respect that and appreciate it and support you. So do you have to have funding? You don't. You just need to really learn communication and relationships. And I
think that's key. Love it, Love it. Um. There's a company I won't mention their name, but you'll know who I'm talking about. Um. They were recently sold about a year or two ago, and they put they were a black company, put a white put a white woman in an ad and it kind of set their audience off, like, you know, black people are, particularly black women are really really loyal. Um, but they but they put a white
woman in an ad after they have been sold. And as as as companies grow, how can they grow without risking that loyalty from being jeopardized? Like? Is there enough market inside black communities with black products where we don't have to look at other demographics? Well, it's it's a twofold. First of all, I'm gonna say, obviously this is a very it's a very uh sensitive topic. Let me just say,
let's start up by saying that two. I would say, someone always told me you always want to begin with the end in mind, and you don't know what that necessarily is. The very first ad that I created when I started out, had a black lady and a white lady on the ad. My very first ad, I didn't know what the future help for me. It was about healthy hair, not necessarily a certain demographic. I'm African American, so of course I'm going to get more African American support, right.
I think the problem happens is when you do something abruptly out of the blue, never done it before, and it's like, where where did this come from? Now it's already sensitive, even if you haven't even even me having that when the add day one is still sensitive. But on the business side, I would like to flip it and say this. I think sometimes people generally speaking, I'm gonna have to sympathize a little bit with the beauty industry because I think they go a little bit harder
on the beauty industry when you take entertainment. When you go to these concerts and you see these tickets, Let's say these tickets, you know they are best entertainers who we love. Who's at the concerts? Is it just who's who would it sell them to. I have yet seen a billion dollar company that's not diverse, that doesn't sell to more than one one demographic. I don't care who, what color of the owner is. I have yet to see it. Entertainment, liquor, you name it. But I think
what happens is and which which Which is cool? Because I love the beauty industry. I think we're really passionate when it comes to the beauty industry, especially hair care. Hair care, you know, they're not giving us no passes. That's pass They're like we we were like you know, cosmetic, We'll go a little bit entertainment, clothing, but hair care, it's suchy obviously, it's it's it's a very touchy and I get it. At the end of the day. I'm
I am my consumer before anything. And I think if a person know me, they know my initiative, they know what I stand for, they know my track record. I think it speaks for itself. Um. One thing about in business, if you think about it, what's really a slap in the face. And one thing I say about African American people. Two things. What our shrimp is we're passionate. Our weakness is we're passionate. You know what I mean. But but no, no, no, Like I said, it's it's the beauty. It's it's a
very touchy. It's very touchy. Um. And the only thing you can do is give your chee authentic self. And again I think my track worker, you know, basically speaks for itself. Black Tech Green Money is a production to Black the Afro Tech and it's produced by Morgan Dubon and meat Will Lucas, with additional production support by Love Beach and Raven Nearport. Special thank you to Michael Davis. It's the cars of Mine, Young you know, like the
wine and yes that's his real name. Learn more about my guests and other tech disruptors and innovatives at afro tech dot com. Go, get your money, peace and love. Afro Tech is back in Austin, Texas this November is the place for all things black, tech and web three. The in person afro Tech Conference experience is bridging the worlds of afro technologists, innovators, investors, corporations, musicians, and everyone
in between. So pull up, grab your crew, and grab your tickets and join us at the largest black professional conference of the gear. This experienced the afro Tech dot coun To learn more