BLACK REPRESENTATION IN CARTOONS w/ Gracie's Corner

I'm Will Lucas and this is Black Tech, Green Money. Javoris and Arlene Holling's Worth are the found us at Gracie's Corner, which features their daughter Gracyn, who was the inspiration for the hit YouTube animated series, which was also nominated for an NAACP Image Award up against big budget animation studio Offers.

Gracie's Corner was.

A COVID project for Javor's.

Which he undertook after not finding enough.

Black representation in cartoons to show his kids, and the show today gets millions of views every month. I asked the family about the grand idea for Graci's Corner. Was a desire just to put out a good piece of content or was there a business strategy they wanted to follow.

We had no idea it was gonna grow the way it did, especially at the pace it did.

It was mostly from the mindset of just seeing that a lot of the country that was out there and seeing that there really wasn't much representation.

Where you can see children of color at the forefront. And for me that was a big problem because I feel like, you know, if our children.

Are country seeing images that don't look like them, they started to wonder like, Okay, there's something wrong with me. Do I belong in this grand scheme of you know, society. And we just wanted to do something that was proactive and then it just.

Kind of caught on with other parents and now we've come to this thing.

At what point did you say, Okay, this is getting serious when it goes, you know, past X number of views? Like, at what point did you say, like, hold on, there's something here.

It was lad in the game for me. When we first started.

We weren't getting the type of viewership we're getting now, Like it was fairly thousands or so views on like it was.

It was. It was kind of rough, and I was I was the believer.

And she also had faith in the whole project itself because we were just putting money into this and you're seeing zero returns, right, So she could have she could have easily said you know what, honey, but she just allowed me to continue to explore and we.

Just kept pressing through it.

I really talk about that because it sounds like, you know, there was like some idea of like we're trying to make something happen other than just feel a need. It's like there's there's got to be some sort of return. That's what it sounds like. So talk to me about what you were looking for.

Did happen?

So I would say, what the first year when we first started this journey, this fun journey, we you know, saw the followers and the subscribers kind of slowly building, and I think the minute I knew, oh my goodness, this is something that is big was when we reached.

One hundred thousand.

Because up until then, you know, and he'll tell you every single milestone, I'll say, wow, it would be great if we can reach that, And it happened, so we surpass it. But I would say when I really knew it was gonna be something was around that mark where he had one hundred thousand subscribers.

And then on top.

Of it, when I saw like all the parents posting videos of himself dancing, I said, okay, we have something because not only is it something that is educational, but it's entertaining not only for the children but for the parents.

And so that's what I really knew, like, wow, okay, this is something.

Was there any education you consumed with trying to figure out how to manage a YouTube channel? Because I know there's so many things talk about. You know, you got to post so many times, and think YouTube wants quantity versus quality in so many respects, and you've got to post twenty eight million times a week and all these types of things. So talk to me about how you gained the knowledge, if you explored that, and what did you learn.

So this is where his background as a researcher. So he has a PhD in organic and macro molecular chemistry, and so.

In everything he does, he does.

Thorough research, thorough research, and so you know, credit goes to divorce because you know he researched everything at nauseum. And you're right, it's not just hey, you go out, you start something, but he researched what he needed to go into it. How to get animation, how to you know, master and make quality music, how many times.

You have to post?

How to what is it called s seo?

And like he just has this this method he uses to make sure that when he posts something, it's gonna get optimal search because of keywords and different things like that.

So, Gracie, and when Dad comes to you and says, hey, I got this idea for this show.

If it happened like that, you know, talk to me about how you felt and like you're like, hey, I'm in or like I got questions, like tell me about what you were thinking.

What he was saying was like we have like kind of like a project going on like together, and he was like like so the only thing we have to do is like we have to like do this and this and then like it'll.

Be like.

So the anxiety was there from the beginning, like you knew you felt like that this could be something special.

Yeah, she she actually wanted she wanted a YouTube channel where she wanted one of those weird ones where you know, you unboxed toy like that type of stuff with me. I know a lot of those kids who do YouTube channels that the way they have to devote a lot of their life to constantly being in front of the camera, and this is like it's it's it's like they're constantly online.

So you didn't come up as a cartoon designer, I imagine, And so I wonder, like, what was that process like when you said, you know what, I'm going to learn how to do this and what did you like, what did you do to learn how to make cartoons?

Man?

So, yeah, just like I said, I that side of it, I'm still oblivious on the whole.

I mean, I've.

Learned the ins and outs of what goes into it, but as far as I actually applying. But I did a lot of research on like even writing the script, Like I do a ton of writing. That's probably like the biggest piece, like writing, writing the songs, writing the scripts. But I've partnered with I have a team of animators

But but the the.

Imagery itself, she can tell you, like the I started by sending an animator a picture of her when she was like oh seven, I think, But yeah, they took that and came up with.

This rendition of what you guys.

See, so were these animators people that you knew or you went to you know, upwork, Like how did you find these people?

Yeah, so using like upwork for the identify freelancers. And then once I identified the freelancer, it was, like I said, early on, it was really one side of where we're just constantly putting money into it. So we didn't really we had like a shoe string budget really this thing together because at the time I was still a professor my wife she's you know, still a professor with we were trying to use income, you know, to live with

So the animators, we took them from the I guess you found them through like a freelance website, and now they work with us and full time, full time, and it's teammate animators and from one animator to like four, so and it's pretty awesome just to see them growth of everything overall.

So early and I'm interested in your in your thoughts on this, and either of you guys can speak up on it, but I wonder, like to what.

Do you attribute the success of the show.

Would it be you know, your ability to market it, or there was purely just a market demand? Like how what would you say is the key to you know, your.

Success in this.

I definitely think it's more so just a demand zero marketing, you know, with regards to to like paid marketing has gone into Gracie's Corner still, everything honestly has been just of course word of mouth and because of people actually watching it enjoying it, the algorithm likes us and push.

Us us out, and so I feel like that just speaks to the need.

You know, people were hungry for something like Gracy's Corner. I mean, and Jemors will say, when we were first starting, we.

Were hungry for something like Gracie's Corner.

That's the reason why you know, we worked hard and we developed Crazy's Corner, right, And.

So, Gracie, I wonder when you think about the journey that you've watched your parents go on to build this thing, and previous to that, you know how young you were at the time, but previously they were just working day jobs, but now they're also entrepreneurs. Also, you know, what do you think about the life that you guys live in the amount of work that you guys put in to build something that's.

Special, I'd say it's like really huge.

Like most times my dad might ask me to be like he might be like, oh, let's record this like tonight, or like let's start like at this moment, and my mom would probably be like, Okay, so let's get the boo tea.

We have a whole entire process we do. So she loves like bubble tea.

Yeah, so, and she probably honestly records like like once or twice her week, and so she very much it's not every day, right, Yeah, but when he does record, she knows I'm going to be sending some bubble tea or having something that.

She can have. And does it take like using two to three hours to record?

What's your record?

So, yeah, Javoris isn't a cartoon producer by trade, and it is informally trained. Yeah, he producers every episode. So I asked him from start to finish, walk me through the development of an episode.

Javorce speaks on it.

Yeah, I think about it from two different angles.

So one angle I think about is.

What is what's what's the piece of knowledge that most parents would want their kids to know?

ABC?

You know that was the first that's you know what I mean, like that type of development, and then also tapping into like good old traditional nurtural runs and things like that too, But yeah, what what do kids?

What do parents want their kids to know?

And so J tackling those core uh fundamental uh things and then from there, uh coming up with the whole piece for for the music and I, as you can see, I try to tap into different genres so it can range from it can range from uh hip hop to afrobeats to reggae to go go music. So that's probably the most fun part for me, honestly, like figuring.

Out like, okay, what what we're gonna do this time? Let's let's uh and I try to mix it up.

You probably if you see it the cat you about to see that. But but then once that part.

Is done and then the music is is in place, then it's to writing.

Sometimes I think the toughest one is like writing the original songs, because now you're creating something that's completely new and it's not based on something that's kind.

Of already been made.

So but then once the song was created then written, that's when she steps in.

And we have an at home studio that I built.

And even when building that, thank thankfully for things like YouTube. That's how I gained the knowledge on you know, how to get the necessary equipment in.

Place at a small budget.

So and I try to say that to people too, to let them know that you don't have to have this huge production studio, like you can start you can start small and then things will just kind of continue to build that way.

Yeah, I thought that was interesting, but I was. I remember.

I remember like when we were the NAACP Image Awards and you talked about how you know, everybody you are up against like a Disney production, and like you have a YouTube show, You're going up against these guys, and like what does what does that tell you about the state of content that we're in today?

Yeah?

Then, you know what, that really made me realize how things have changed because back in the day, you know what I'm saying, It's like I'm an old man, but back in the day, if you want to have your stuff on any type of platform, you had to go through these big you know, these big roots, but now it's just so easily accessible for someone to enter.

I don't want to say.

Through the back door, but it's easier to kind of get in now because we got the YouTube, we got the the instagrams, the US it called tiktoks and all these different things where you can reach this audience now versus back in the day. You know, it was just these only a few ways. But we've found this other

We have a kind of doubt.

It speaks to like how much technology has advanced MM all of us. You know, think about like our animators. You know they they're in Nigeria. You know, it was technology that allowed us to access these phenomenal animators. Technology that allowed us to even put I guess what some would call our product out there to be viewed by

We also upgraded.

Our Yeah, I mean that's it's super important. Like when I've learned, you know, when you're doing this side of work. You know, for me, at least from my perspective, the money goes back in. How do we continue to make it bigger instead of pulling the money out and going to you know, to Sizzler, Like, we're gonna put the money back in so we can continue growing this thing.

To Gratia's point, man, my.

Vision for this is way bigger than what people are even seeing right now. And I feel like we haven't even stretch of service yet with what's possible because.

At the moment, some people even refer to us like the Black Cocoa Meling.

But you know, even with the Coco Mela franchise on, you can see how Yeah, they're available on YouTube with these guys, you can also find them on Netflix and all these other areas. And then you have your live shows, you have your merchandise that you can find it in Walmart and Target.

And all of the place.

Like, there's so many areas that we haven't even tapped into yet, and right now we're just on the YouTube

I think that's I think there's just so much more that can be done.

So I just want to continue investing into it and making sure that it reaches the potential that I know can it can have.

How do you vet the opportunities that you know come to you because of the success, Like, what are the filters that you put on to make sure that what you're partnering with people on or allowing them to be in your ear about makes sense, feel man.

That that's a good question question and something.

We struggled with earlier on because as soon as we start to gain some traction where we're getting let's say earlier to back then when we're when we reached the point where we're able to get like a million views in a month or something, now you know it. I think the last one was like over one hundred and thirty million in a single one.

But everybody up there, that's when they pop up.

Yeah, so now you you getting a lot of phone calls people that you probably never would imagine you would, you know, talk.

To and and.

And it's really tough to really kind of weed through like Okay, it.

Seems like a nice person.

Oh, this guy's cool and you know, but luckily we got to a point where we got with an agency, so we're now with United Talent Agency or UTA, and those guys are taking a lot of these phone calls on our behalf and kind of narrowing down like, Okay, here's the value proposition from this person, here's the vague proposition this person, and just kind.

Of weeding it out that way.

But one of the biggest things for us has been being able to maintain the direction that this is going, as far as keeping it authentic, because there's we've had conversations with some some people that they made it clear that hey, like you're doing but you know, maybe we could take it this direction and do X y Z, and the direction that they were taking it. It's almost like diluting what we've created. And that's the nicest way I can put it. Yeah, like that the way we made it.

Yeah, I'm not just I want you to go in there, because you know, there's when you've gotten something, you know, everybody has an idea on what you should be doing. Everybody has an idea, you know, So how do you protect your your mission because it's not just about money. Money is important, but it's not just that you're trying

Yeah?

The the I think the biggest part is being comf being comfortable with saying no, and honestly, for me that that was a struggle. Like you know, I'm I'm all. I've always been a type to try to, you know, meet people in the middle and make things work if possible. But I find myself having to say a lot of those now because people will try to sell this grand vision, but their vision is pretty much their vision in it.

If if it aligns with the vision that we have, I'm all forward.

But if I can see clearly like Okay, this is gonna go some direction where like like now, be very intentional about make sure that you're like cheer of color in the forefront with when I I see moments where okay, yeah, let's let's exchange one of Gracie's black friends for I don't know, something else and then put me you know, that's when it is starts to you know, worry me because it's like, Okay, now we're going I think from Marcus standpoint, their mindset is like, okay, how can we

I put it that way.

I was gonna say, like maybe like a reference would be like maybe like instead of trying to like take other people's like ideas and stuff, maybe like trying to make something better and like more like of a franchise that you could think would like grow big and I would like would if you wouldn't have to worry about anything instead of like copying other people's things.

Yeah, And I think she's right, Like, I think a big part of George likes to say it's his favorite thing to say is people can smell when something is not authentic.

And he says that's.

Why when a lot of people who don't necessarily have all the right people in the room try to make a product that's not at the core authentic, people can smell it because it doesn't pass that smell test. And so I think for us, you know, she's right, Like in the very beginning, we had people telling us this is a truth. People were telling us, why are.

You doing nursery rhymes?

Nursery rhymes aren't going to be successful.

You should have graciec pop songs.

For real, for real, I'm pretty sure that person they won't name names who said that is sitting back saying wow.

Now.

And that's just one example, but there have been a lot of people who will say do this, do that.

And I think one of the things we've.

Done is you know, family owned, you know, business company, and we just to be honest. One of the biggest things we do is discuss things amongst ourselves and we just say, no, what feels right, you know, what's what's in alignment with why we started this and why we do this, and if things don't align with it, we don't do it.

We say no. Yeah.

Mostly like you have to be resourceful, and also like you also have like self con you have to have like self control on what you're doing, and also like just to have self control.

Yeah, yeah, And that's that's a really good point. And I'm glad you brought that up because it makes me think about something Javoris said earlier. It's like, you know, there are things that he didn't know was going to get as big as they are today, and there's other things that you could be doing, you know. I think about when I went to Disney for the first time. It's like just the cartoon was the gateway to get you to Disney, to get you to buy the product,

Yeah, and that's that.

Was something we've had a long conversation about too, where we know, in order to get to that point where I know it can go, it's gonna take some more fire power.

And you know what we're doing now.

Yeah, we could easily sustain this and just kind of keep it black, but if we really want to put some fire to it, it's gonna take that right partnership. And in order to secure that partnership, you gotta be willing to give up some everybody like that was That's one of the biggest things that I think a lot of people aren't willing to.

Have that conversation.

But I feel like when you have, when you can identify the right partner giving up that equity, it's only going to build you know, even more so, it's just being just being smart about it. So we're not we don't have an issue with giving up a piece of a pie and make sure that this thing can really get to where it's.

Supposed to give.

But we don't want to give up all of the pie. So before the numbers started looking the way they were looking, the discussion was full acquisition all of the pie.

Wow.

And for us that was all.

And we're talking about you know, big production companies like major ones, and we were like, no, you know, regardless of what you know, it's throwing the front that made look a pilling. We understood that, you know, this is bigger than us. We could see it at.

That point, understood that, you know, yes, we.

Could say, okay, give it all up, but then we don't have the ability to have control over what it looks like, and that was something we didn't want, you know. So I guess, going along with what Janora said, it's you know, right now, we still have one hundred percent ownership of it, so we haven't you know, we're we are open to partners, but it's one of those things where it has to be the right partner and if they have to understand the vision and want to keep with that.

Yeah, I was gonna say, like maybe like what you can do is like save the pie and like wait for like another moment that makes you like feel like it's like okay, Like does it like feel like disturbing? And like when you have it has to like feel like the right decision. Yeah, like are what you're making. So I say, like save the pie until like.

The next moment.

Yeah, you gotta have that desernment to know to to our least a previous point like if it does smell right, it's probably not right. So talk to me aside from the numbers. So you're looking at your numbers every month, every week, and these numbers are coming in one hundred and thirty million lass a month. Congratulations on that. What are the things that matter to you other than views?

I feel like the the awareness like yeah, we were getting a lot of views or whatever.

But there's a lot of people who still don't know a thing about Grace's Corn, like, and I feel like.

I would love to see this become like a household name where you know, especially the people who need to be able to see it know about it at least, you know what I mean, Because there's a lot of people who are still watching stuff that don't quite hit the mark, whether it is with the representation itself or the content, because like if you listen to some of the stuff that's out there.

Man, you can you can as a creator, you can kind of.

Tell what stuff a lot of thought goes into and what stuff that they're just trying to create something just for the sake of making sure that they can, Like you're saying earlier that quantity aspect of I got to have something, so.

I just feed the machine.

Yeah, some people just focus on feeding feet feeding with we really put a.

Lot of thought into the content itself.

The words like if you go and listen to any of the song that, but not like there's an actual thought that's going into it.

So it's it's I.

Don't know, Yeah, I wanted to I want to dig in there because I wonder how you determine the content? How do you how do you determine how long.

The episode should be?

How how how do you determine.

Which subjects to discuss?

Like how do you determine these things?

Yeah?

That that's pretty much almost like a team of her there because she's the psychologist. So whenever you hear a song I got like any mental health components wrapped up into it. Like for instance, the Deep Breath song that was that was her idea.

A song.

Yeah, that that affirmation was part of the ABC song that was that was her idea.

So she can speak.

We actually we'll sit down and we'll come up with a list of concept we feel are important that we've liked them because at the same point, we have a three year old and we have a five year old, so we actually have children that are the same age as a children who views Crazy's Corner. And so the question is, Okay, what kind of things do we want our children to be learning? You know, if you know, there's a time.

Of the day where.

You know, we allow them to have screen time and we want them to have quality content. What are the things we want them to be looking at? What are the things we want them to learn? And so we'll make a long list of like nursery rhymes and different learning concepts.

And then we'll just go from there. And to be honest, Divores, will you know, he'll go and.

Try to look for beats or make beats, and what will happen is he'll hear something and he will say, oh, this would be a cool beat to do. Mary had a little lamb to or account by two songs, you know, and so we have a lot of different concepts, but it's led by of course us knowing what we want children to you know, have, as well as you know, making sure there is music that.

Fits really good with it.

I wanted to ask this in closing Gavars and you know, any ice welcome to chime in. But I wonder what lessons you learned about how to view opportunity in the middle of in the midst of turmoil, because like you got this idea during COVID when so many other people were just distracted by you know, can you get toilet paper at the grocery staff?

You know what I mean?

So, but you saw an opportunity. So how what lesson did that teach you about how to take advantage of those moments in life where you could be distracted by other things, worthy things, but you can still be distracted by the things.

Yeah. I think the biggest thing is once you have that idea, hold on to it.

I know, it's so easy to, like you said, get distracted by something else that may be tapping you on the shoulder or tugging you some other direction. Because at the time I was grading papers, writing exams and doing all this and being a dad, and you know, I I it's it's easy to get pulled away in.

A different direction. But you know, if you if you have an idea or a vision that you truly believe in, just stayed the course. And especially if it's something that's.

If to have a positive impact on a gr uh grand skill, it's just stay the course and stick with it.

Yeah, something I don't stay there.

Yeah.

I think learning also that sometimes things can say. I can tell you early on when we started off with what like ten views, a hundred views, early on, I think all of us could say, wow, we're not sure, you know, if if this is gonna pan out. But I think there is a lot that we can get from staying the course, as Divorce said, and understanding that patience.

I mean because honestly, like you heard him say, the.

First year, there wasn't any return, and it was honestly something that we were pumping.

It was a labor of love and we were like, yeah, you know, where's this going? And so stay course. And I guess all great things take sacrifice.

There definitely, you know has been and still is a sacrifice, you know, but well worth it.

So I think it's the bias of the importance of.

Without a doubt, patience and understanding that things don't happen overnight, and just because it doesn't look like it's gonna happen.

Doesn't mean it will.

Black Tech Green Wheny is a production of Blavity Afro Tech on the Black Effects Podcast Network and Night High Media.

It's produced by Morgan Devonne and me Well Lucas.

With the additional production support by Sarah Ergon and Rose McLucas.

Special thank you to MIKEL.

Davis.

Ifan that's a serrano.

Learn more about my guests and other tech This repeorsent innovators at afrotech dot com. Enjoying Black Tech Green Money. Share this with somebody, Go get your money.

Pat in Love