Well, Luke is here a Black Tech Green Money. I am super excited for this one. I get to talk to my friend. I should vote as a former NASA rocket scientist, tech founder, extraordinari, somebody I've been a big fan of for a long time, and soon to be astronaut joining the upcoming Blue Origin New Shepherd flight crew. She found a lingo and tech company. This already serves, you know, ten thousand plus. I'm sure that number has grown by now students and is only mission equipped one
million learners with them skills over the next decade. Welcome. I used it to Black Tech Green Money. It's good to see you will It's my pleasure. It's my pleasure. So you spoken about how I want to go all the way back. Your guidance counsel has suggested cosmetology, which is fine, but your FOB encouraged you to pursue math. And how did that moment shape and help this I should become who she is now.
Looking back, I remember feeling so angry when I was talking to guidance counselor because it wasn't the field. It was this idea that she was limiting me. She was sort of prescribing the boundaries of my life. You weren't good at school, therefore you're not going to be good at life. And in that moment, I remember not knowing what to do about it, right, because I feel like when you're in high school, you just believe what people tell you, especially when they're adults, and especially when they
have titles like guidance. And I went home and I was talking to my dad, and my dad was furious, and he said, Ayisha, you cannot subscribe to what other people tell you about yourself. But in that moment, I just felt so demoralized that I proceeded to community college without applying to college. And what I realized in that environment was that my reality, my dreams mattered, and that I could turn perception into facts simply by believing in
having goals and ideas that were outside the norm. And so, you know, I took out a piece of paper and I just made up this life, like I want to graduate, I want to go to a good school. I want to go to University of Michigan, go blue. I want
to become a rocket scientist. I want to do things that people laughed at me for saying I wanted to do, and all of those things became real and that's when I started to realize that like we, especially as people of color, cannot allow ourselves to be defined by anything other what we choose to be.
I love that, and so community college to NASA is a humongous leap. Humongous And for that Ayisha that started community college, what is it you know now about what it takes to make that leap that she didn't know?
I think I was so caught up in trying to follow the traditional script that it could not be authentically me. Like I remember studying for exams and just freezing and not being able to remember anything that I studied or memorized. And so I think the first thing was that I needed to understand that just because I wasn't good at traditional testing doesn't mean that I wasn't going to be good at life. And once I just sort of let go of expectations and fear, which was the fear of
ending up broke, like you know. Well, one of the things that I don't share but I want to talk more about was when I was in community college making the transition to go to university, I took out a life insurance policy on myself. I took it out for fifty thousand dollars because I was so afraid that if I died when I was in college, my parents were going to be broke and they were never going to
be able to pay that debt back. And I think about that time in my life and I just felt so I felt so confined, I felt so discouraged, I felt so scared, and me saying, you know what, I know what it's like to fail, I know what it's like to work, I know what it's like to be tired, I know what it's like to be hungry, and I'm not going back to that, And like, using that as a source of strength was really what propelled me to do what I'm doing now.
You chose aerospace engineering because you were interested in science fiction. What I'm a big science I love scien like specifically near future science fiction, like things that can happen in our lifetimes, like what stories as fired you and how do they influence the way you think.
So I used to read a lot. I was a gymnast and we were on the road and it was always kind of like me and like a book right in the back of the car. I used to be able to read books in the car without getting motions sick. Like I missed those days. But one of the things about becoming an aerospace engineer that I don't share as often is I kind of was bartering with God. Now I know you're not supposed to do that, right, but it was one of those things where I was like, Okay,
I want to do this incredible, crazy, badass thing. And I literally was like, dear God, if you can hear me and you want to let me know that you're real and dream's are real, then I will become a rocket scientist. Like, yes, I love science fiction, but I had not seen any black female rocket scientists Like yeah, and the only people that I saw who worked in aerospace worked in aerodynamics for automotive companies, and like, I
was not about that life. And so it really was a transformational experience because I started to understand that like through prayer, through preparation, and through resilience, like I really could do anything. So tell me.
So I'm curious, Like you just talked about people going theodynamics and like, like what is the is are these like tougher programs to get into? Like that was like the selection process, like you were selected to do this, like, how does that work?
So I think the first part for school, there are different criterias depending on where you go, right, I think that's sort of like the first selection is making the grades necessary in order to declare, whether it's two years into your degree or in high school being able to enter and do some pre engineering. So there's that. I think after then you have what industry has in terms of the their qualifiers. And I want to kind of say that I think a lot of it is I
think a lot of it's BS. And what I mean by that is I truly believe in skills based testing. I believe in evaluating the whole person. I gave a talk once with the CEO of a multi billion dollar company and I came after him and I was like, look, the reality of it is that you and I are sharing the same stage. We came from two different places and we ended up at the same spot. And that's because I had the skill and I had the talent. I didn't have the opportunity. We all know, right, genius
is evenly distributed. Opportunity is not. And so when I think about the question about requirements, I actually am looking forward to a future where a lot of those prerequisites go away, and we really start looking at the people because I'm living in a company and an environment where I made it up right in twenty twenty five. I made up my job. I made up the logo, I made up the color scheme. I made up all the positions that the people do. But we've been in business for twelve years. So it was.
Like, let's talk about that, Like what is the mindset shift that's different in a NASA engineer to entrepreneurship and how than to astronaut? Like how how do you have to change how you think?
I think what happened was instead of me thinking and having the safety net, so to speak, of the government, I decided to bet on myself. The transition from NASA to working in a small business really became. It really was about me meeting people in the valley, some of whom I'm still friends with to this day, and understanding that a lot of folks had a PowerPoint and a
dream and they were getting funded. I know you've seen it, so people are more capable than others, And I'll just let you interpret that however you want to interpret that. And I was thinking, wait a second, I got two degrees from Michigin. But I don't think that I can run a company. Why why, Like, what's the difference between me and you? You're doing what I would like to be doing simply because you believe that you should and
I'm qualified and I believe that I can't. So that shift was what caused me to go out and try to make it happen. And I'm not going to romanticize the first few years of starting a business. You know it is hard, right, I mean, I'm CouchSurfing. I'm talking to supportive pets and animals about my business because I was too afraid to talk to my family. I mean, listen to the dogs told me I could do it, So I did it.
I love it.
But the mentality shift is really like, look, why do you spend so much time counting yourself out? Because you are internalizing false societal narratives like you have to love yourself the way that Kanye loves himself. I tell people that all the time, like go hard or go home and go hard for yourself and you will do amazing things. And so my journey is like as much as I want people to go into space and science like I
would love it if you did. But the reality of it is, I want you to look at my story and say, every single time somebody told I you should that she could not, she did, I can do it too, right. It's just about being dogged in the pursuit of excellence and whatever success means for you in your life.
How are you defining success these days?
In wealth?
Even let's do both. How are you defining both success and wealth?
I'm defining success as accomplishing the goals that are important to me. I like to look at my life on five year iterations, and so for the first five years, I wanted to work for NASA, do cool things, worked on small spacecraft, worked on aircraft, did that. And then after that I wanted to become a business person. I'm twelve years in that game, still doing it. Created another company, raised a couplement million of venture capital, like that's great,
love it. And then after that I wanted to figure out how do I put what I do in the celebrity track, so to speak? Right, how do I become a superstar in engineering? And I thought, okay, well I'm going to go to space once again. And I said I'm going to space. People were like I don't think you can do that. I'm like, I get that, but I tell you that I'm in aerospace, and you laugh at my face anyway, So why do I just go the rest of the way and double down and let's
go to space. So I look at the successes. Did you build a company, is it working, is it thriving? Yes? Did you set out to achieve what it is that you wanted to achieve in your personal and financial life? Right? Okay, yes? But the other piece is the wealth of doing things that matter. My goal is to be a bedtime story. That's wealth to me. I'm creating endowment so that people will study under my name long after I'm dead and
I'm done and I'm ash. I want to make sure that the story lasts and that it's remarkable and people feel inspired by it, and when they hear it, they're just like, WHOA, So she did what? She did what? And hopefully that story will inspire others to reach hire and do the same.
You know, you played a pivotal role in bringing the SpaceX rocket landing into the Bahamas and talking about like behind the scenes, like like how'd that happen? How'd you make this happen.
Well, I will say that there were a lot of for thinking people that were involved in that historic partnership agreement. But I want to go back to this idea of being unrealistic, because when we started down that path, people were like, Nah, the United States is never I'm like, that doesn't mean that we can't we go do it.
And what I wanted to see was participation and what is going to become a trillion dollar industry if it's not already by non traditional players, and for the Bahamas to have the foresight to leverage the infrastructure that has been built since the Apollo program and then to use that along with their tourism industry to say, hey, not only are we sun, sand and sea, we're now space is just revolutionary. And I'm incredibly proud to be part
of that work. And so now you have the option you can go to Kennedy in Florida and you can watch launches, but you can also go to the Bahamas and you can see landings.
So what does that now mean for the future their space economy in the Bahamas.
It's you know, it's such a big question. It's almost hard to define because space transforms everything. It touches, and like, you need everybody for space. I mean, I'm rocking my Lions shirt because this is really the Super Bowl that I wanted and I just can't let that go. But space needs lawyers, Space needs accountants, Space needs doctors, Space needs scientists, Space needs all people. And what happens is
you need machinists, you need welders. The infrastructure that is required to support space touches nearly every vertical in an economy. And so for the Bahamas, I think it means stem education and people having a place to go. They're going to be able to live and work in the same place. I think it means they're going to start to see their science and their experiments which are focused on monitoring
our Earth and protecting our oceans reaching new heights. I think a record number of people are going to get to see and experience space from the Bahamas. And I'm honored to be the first person of Behaman heritage to go to space. And so I'm really really excited about the economic benefits as well as the overall benefits for climate and Earth and the out years.
Yeah, let's dig in on that, you know, because I think about those opportunities just described, and I wonder like what us as black entrepreneurs should be thinking about when you're thinking about the growing space industry. What should we be paying attention to when we're looking for opportunity.
There's a lot of opportunity in space. And you know, I take a deep breath because as a small business, I never thought that my company would be involved in such a momentous project because I thought of ourselves as small. But when you look at the space companies, I mean, I'm going to space on a rocket from a company that wasn't even created when I was working at NASA. That's wild, right, I mean SpaceX was just getting started
when I was there. And so really it's about daring to dream and having nothing that you want to pursue be too radical or too extreme enough. I mean, look at intuitive machines, look at what's going on with people looking to provide cargoes to the National Space Station, or
you know, power beaming or cleaning up space debris. A lot of those ideas they're not coming from large companies, they're from small and so I would bring our innovation, I would bring our ingenuity, I would bring our downright scrappiness and willingness to persist to the game, and you know, feel confident that you can participate, and so talk.
To us about what it's like to train for this astronaut experience, like take us in the journey.
Yeah. So I've been training for the better part of the last year. And when I tell you I'm having so much fun, you get a chance go to my Instagram Ashabo and peep the latest training videos. I am giggling, I'm squealing the guys like she's having too much fun. I am loving it. I pulled six gee's in an FAA approved Human centerfuge, which it's essentially designed to mimic what you can expect to experience inforces in the ascent and descent. And I was like again and again, I
was bus like a kid on a carnival ride. I love it. But this isn't just about fun. It's also about being prepared mentally and physically so that I can conduct science as part of my mission. I partnered with Winston Salem, and you know, Winston Salem is in HBCU, but they also have a leading astrobotany lab. And what I wanted to be able to do and kind of the tide of the question that you just asked about,
you know, black folks and participating in space. I wanted to take our space intellect and genius and I wanted to leverage it on my mission to produce world class research. And that's what you see when we get involved and we participate. And so we're going to be looking at how plants respond to space. There's a huge agricultural focus.
We're genetically sequencing crop plants and the idea is to apply the results to food security here on Earth, because if you can grow plants in inhospitable environments, you can grow them in food deserts here.
So I like to ask guess, like what's in like their EBC, their everyday carry And I'm gonna I'm gonna give a little bit of a twist on this for you. Like I wonder, like what is necessary if I USU you to take to space and why?
Well, I think the first thing that's necessary for me to take to space is my behaving heritage and my father. I lost my father at the beginning of this year, and I can remember not knowing like how am I going to get out of bed? And how am I going to do this, and one of my close friends purchased a star, and she named the star my dad's name, and she's like, for everywhere he can't be, that you are, and when you go to space, you're going to be
just a little bit closer to his star. And I remember thinking just about the importance of looking at the night sky and the importance of really being like our ancest the wildest dreams, Like we talk about that all
the time. And I looked at my dad, my dad's text messages, and when he first found out that I was going, he luck me this beautiful message about all the people coming before him being proud of me, and all the people who will come after me being proud of me, and to make sure that I not only meet this moment, but that it's not my moment, it's our moment. And I find a way to share that dream. And so I think the first part is just realizing
that I'm having something. I'm having the opportunity to do something that my family and he would have been proud of. The second is I've been traveling around the world collecting literal dreams from students from parents from Kenya to India to the Bahamas and Kentucky, the NCR and those are going to space, they're going to return to them marked
in space. And the the idea is to bring space home, right because if you can write your dream, and your dream can go to space and return to you, it's further evidence that your dream is real and it matters. And then the last thing is, I'm carrying the flag from the Moon with me. Now you might be like, wait, what, Yes, the flag from Apollo twelve that Pete Conrad took to the Moon is going to be flying with me, and it's a powerful symbol of the past, the present, and
the future of space. And it was loaned to me by Pete's wife, Nancy. She literally said, go to the collection in the museum, go get that flag, and go send it to aacious house. Because what I want I want the world to see that the next fifty years of space is going to look a whole lot different than the last. And those three things are really what I'm thinking about. And then the ability to take that knowledge and take that inspiration and educate and inspire through
the products that we've created at LINGO. We have space lessons that are getting rolled out with this launch. And so it's all to me about elevating right, like lifting as I climb and making sure that when I leave, I leave this place better than how I found it.
If you would have started another tech company tomorrow, like what problem would you solve?
I think the idea is to exit and chill on the beach.
Listen.
I was like the audacity someone who has done that. You're like, if you were just starting another tech company to.
It's like, I'm good, I'm really really really good, Like oh that is it gives me all.
List The key in life is to not look like what you've been through. So there's what I'll say. I was going to start a nonprofit tomorrow.
I love it.
I would be focused on education and opportunity. I've been traveling around in exchange for keynotes, I've been building the funds to create endowments, and so I create an endowment at my community college. I was really honored last year to give a keynote at a conference, and FLU Corporation then donated new lab equipment to my college, and I was like, yes, I really want to use what it is that I've created for good. And I wanted to
be invested in education and legal in medicine. I mean, I've now gone through a couple attempts at egg freezing, and that's a whole nother podcast, right, Like fertility and childbirth and all those things. They need us, we need us, and so I want to be part of funding the pathways to make sure that there are more professionals of a diverse background who are able to prove the care, whether it's legal, medical, or otherwise.
Yeah, you know, you're going to be on this journey as a real engineer, real you know, aerospace engineering experience, and I'm wondering and I'm curious about what you're hoping to contribute to this team into this mission.
You know. One of the things that I love about this mission is I think that the crew really reflects people on Earth, right, And I don't want to live on a planet that doesn't have music. I don't want to live on a planet that doesn't have news. I mean, up until earlier this year, I was a news junkie. I had to tune that down. Yeah, yeah, personal, I think you can resonate. I like to stay informed. I like to listen to the podcast. And I'm also not
about prerequisites. I think if that is your dream, you should pursue it. And so I'm excited to be able to hold up science and to hold up what people consider to be traditional as being an aerospace engineer. But I'm the aerospace engineer that almost failed high school. And my story is that you can transcend, you can overcome, and it's not where you start, it's how you finish. And so I'm really proud to be able to walk that path alongside a non traditional yet inspiring crew.
Yeah you know, do you how do we go from celebrating individual black success in stem to making systemic changes that increase representation so we get more issues just because that's how it works instead of oh, he's an anomaly.
I think part of what I've been enjoying about this process is people learning about the journey and the story. It's me being able to talk to people like you and being like, look, you know, we've really gone through some things, right And before this mission, I felt like I was known in my segment of tech, right, Like, if you were a startup entrepreneur, you probably knew me.
If you're an aerospace probably knew me. And now this exposure is going wide and I'm literally getting notes from parents around the world who we are saying, my daughter saw you and she's excited. She's doing her project on you. Or you know, my daughters wanted an astronaut costume, but it's not a costume. It's a uniform for the job she's going to have in her future. The representation it matters.
And there's a lot of data that shows that middle school girls don't pursue these feels because they don't see themselves. And it's also the same for people of color, right they think that they're traditionally dominated by people who are not like them. And these environments are inhospitable. And I'm not here to say that it's going to be sunshine, rainbows and lollipops. But I didn't like the environment I
was in, so I built my own. I did not like what was available in the educational market, so I built my own. And so I think, what I really am trying to demonstrate is that you matter, You have power, and you can choose to change the world no matter where you are, no matter what age you may think you're at, and if you apply yourself, the outcome will surprise you.
You know you're joining And unfortunately, a short legacy, but you know, a legacy for real like the May Jamison's, you know, and the others. Very few black women who have been in the space. What does that mean to you?
It means everything because we're doing it together. I had the opportunity earlier this year to attend the largest meetup of female astronauts at the un and you had Me, Keisha, Jeannette Doctor Practer all in one room, and those who were not in the room, they were reaching out out. The four of us are half of the African American women who've either gone to space or who are manifested to go to space. And it was all hugs, and it was all advice, and it was all I'm here
for you. And So when I think about being yet another data point of excellence, of carrying the flag, of moving forward the story, I'm excited about highlighting their stories. And I'm also excited about a future where we're one of many and not one of the few.
No, how do you feel I want you to go in on because you talked about you know, the crew represents, you know, all kinds of people from America, you know, Gail King, Katy Perry, Like, what does it feel like how do you feel about flying with people you know like this, like tell me that story, how how this really resonates with you?
You know, I'm so excited. They're wonderful we had the opportunity to meet, and I just like, of all Gale, right, like every time I see her, I just want to seeze her and to know that Katie, I mean, Katie's like the soundtrack to a lot of my high school
and college years and hey, those are fun times. Yeah, I feel honored that science, that my accomplishments, that the story is on par with such giants in the field, and it's really this excitement to know that they're also a vehicle for storytelling because only the good stories last. And so this is going to be a widely seen mission. And even more importantly, when they see my name, they're going to see Winston Salem. When when they see my name,
they're going to see research. They're going to see somebody who did not think that she could ever do this thing, but she's doing it at the highest level. And that's really my takeaway and how I feel about it. And to be able to do that and know that I have a WhatsApp group called Space Queens and you can guess who's in that what that group. It's just it's an honor and it's a joy.
And finally, you talked a little bit about young people, specifically young girls who've seen themselves in you. What message do you want this flight to send a young black kid specifically who dream of careers is them?
I want to hit that from two angles, because I want to speak to the kids and I want to speak to the parents. My life changed because my dad was unwilling to accept anything less than greatness from me, even when I wasn't demonstrating that. And I think that's so important, right, it doesn't matter where a child is, speak over them as if they are going to accomplish great things. We see that example in the documentary about
Venus and Serena. Their father was like, wait, what, they're the best ever?
Do it?
So that you know, I want people to really take that out of this, out of this podcast for the people who are in those positions, right, I know what it feels like to be discouraged, to be young, to be lost, to be afraid. And what I want you to understand is that sometimes the things that you think
are setbacks are really a setup. For success right. Failure is sometimes success in progress, and so stay with it, stay with your dreams, stay you know, stay out of don't put yourself down right, let's stay out of that, and to be focused only on what you want for your life, regardless of how other people feel about it.
Black Tech Green Money is a production to Blavity afro Tech on the Black Effect podcast Networking Night Hire Media, and it's produced by Morgan Debonne and me Well Lucas, with the additional production support by Kate McDonald, Sarah Ergan and Jaden McGee. Special thank you to Michael Davis and Lovebeach. Learn more about my Guess and other technives us an
innovators at afrotech dot com. Video version of this episode will drop to Black Tech Green Money on YouTube, So tap in, enjoy your Black Tech Green Money, share us to somebody go get your money.
Peace and love,