BOOTY NOODLES and other Favorite Foods

Participant #1: You are listening to Black Brown Gold, presented by the Black and Asian Alliance Network. In these conversations, we seek intersectionality, understanding and a good time. As we Wade through discussions on black and Asian mixed identity. For more information about the Black, I can Asian alliancenetworkhitupbanorg. Org that's B-A-A-N-O-R-G org. Participant #1: So here we are. We're black. We're Asian. I don't know where we're going with it. Some really influential people noticed this podcast inaugural podcast. I think we're doing a good thing. I like it. Shut up. All eblays out there. It's a lot of us on both sides, way more than I thought. Well, welcome back, everybody to Black Brown Gold, a podcast about and by and for Blasians and our experiences. I'm Jonathan, aka Blatant FMA. All over the Internet. My pronouns are he him and his. I am joined by what's up? It's me, Meghan Thomas, also known as Meg scoop on the interwebs my pronouns. Are she her hers. Is that right? Did I use it? Yeah. You got it. Every time. You don't know how many times I've done my pronouns and I'd be like, Wait, is it all of them? I'm sorry. Yes, that's me. You can find me at Megscope, like supervising. I'm Ryan Alexander Holmes, A-K-A. At Ryan. Alex H. He him. So what I gather from that is you're going to be on season two of that one show by what's her name? Shonda Rhimes. That one show by what's her name? Richardson is going to be gone. And you're his replacement guy. Why did he go? I think they never meant him to be past one season. From what I understand, I think it was just supposed to be every season, like a whole different. It's a different focus. I think the next season is about, like the older brother. Admitted, I remember watching never any Shonda show, not scandal. You missing out, boo. I don't know what you over here, Bridgeton. You didn't watch Bridgett? No. And it was so popular, wasn't it? What are you doing? Jonathan Gibbs watching anime. Staying Black. Participant #1: Wow. Let's jump right into this episode about food. If you clicked on this thing. No, we're not giving away free coupons to HMart. I try to balance the jokes out, but I can't think of a black version of HMart. Do we have black grocery stores? Oh, wow. We really don't. We don't. And that is actually very sad. Damn. I mean, we have black owned businesses, which we'll get into in a few minutes, but we don't have chains like that. That's interesting. That's not even on the script anyway. Episode two is about food. Food is one of the cultural artifacts that unite us as a people. We all need to eat and drink. And some of us love to drink. And our various cultures on both sides love to drink and have also evolved the food in their own ways. So in this episode, we're going to talk about our favorite foods, foods that we don't like, our experiences with our foods growing up. And then a little bit of controversy there at the end for you to chew on. Where do we even start with this? Food is life. Food is love. I'm trying to be as generic as possible right now. What was a typical dinner at your houses growing up? Rice. That was the number one thing that was always present was rice. Dude, rice always. I remember living on my own, like, after I went to College, away from home for the first time, and I was like, Where's the rice? I got to go find it and make it. I got to go buy a rice cooker. You know what I mean? Because that wasn't the norm. Outside of my house, I have to have everything with rice. That's funny, because I always remember having a rice cooker in our house and not even a rice cooker, but also, my mom had, like, a rice housing facility. Yes, with the one, two, three on it. Yeah. One, two, three. You pick the number, how much rice you want, and then you pull the little drawer out because it puts, all right, you don't have one of those. I didn't have one of those Participant #1: storage. You take the huge bag and you, like, pour it into the rice storage. I need to go get one of those for my mom right now. She's going to be so happy. She's going to love you. Well, the thing is, I had that thing that you're talking about, Meg, but we just, like, scooped the rice out of the top, so we never pressed the one, two, three. I don't know if it was broken or what, but we would go to the commissary because I'm military, Navy, and we would buy the bags of rice, and then they'd be in the closet like, Ryan, like, Ryan's rice. Not that you're in the closet. Ryan, you mentioned, like, in College, you had to get your rice cooker for me. It was well before College, actually, because in the previous episode, I think I said half of my life was my minor life was my mom. And then I moved in with my dad with my dad. He didn't have a rice cooker. Number one. But number two, which I found weird. But then that led to us not eating rice every day. And then he was like, no, he didn't say these words, but in so few words, he was like, no, you're weird for eating rice every day. Sometimes we have potatoes. Sometimes we have pasta. Sometimes we have rice. And I'm like, no rice every day. That was a point of contention for us. That should be on a T shirt. No rice every day. Every day. I love it. Same thing here. I grew up with my dad and my mom, and you would think that with my dad being such a strong Southern black man that it would be like, no, we need all these other foods. But somehow my mom incorporated both to the point where every meal had a touch of both. Every meal had rice, rice, and usually rice and kimchi was like somewhere around. But it was also fried chicken, Mac and cheese, cabbage, cornbread, like Sister Thomas is what I like to call her. Had to make all of this stuff because I guess my dad's side of the family were really big chefs, like career chefs, but they were known for their Southern food. So for my grandma, who people would buy her homemade caramel icing on my dad's side to my aunts, who were chefs for governors and everything. So I guess when I got married, my aunt kind of sat my mom down and was like, So we know you're fresh off the boat, but you're going to have to learn how to make this. Okay. How to make this stuff in our family. Over time, my mom's food, like her Southern food, got so good to the point where my College roommate would always ask me to bring my mom's Mac and cheese back whenever I went home to visit. It was that good. She was like, your mom's, Mac and cheese is fire. I don't understand how this Asian Lady can make fire Mac and cheese, but she had to learn. That's funny, because that reminds me of the fact that your mom could make Mac and cheese so well that people ask for it. I have a friend that I go to his house, like, pre pandemic all the time for New Year's, and he had this recipe for Greens that everybody loved, and he was like, Chow. You're never going to believe it. But this Greens recipe is from a Korean woman at work. I was like, what was that? My mom was it my mom, not kale and not something else. Like to me, Collard Greens is a black food. I don't know if that's the case, but I always thought it was a black food, and I'm sure a lot of people would argue it is like one of the staples. Right? So the fact that this Korean woman at my friend's job was the one whose recipe we were using all the time I was shook, but I was happy about it, right? Participant #1: Yeah. That definitely was my mom. Tell your friend you're welcome, Meg, you and I are both Southern. One thing that really was like a defiling of something sacred to me is the fact that black folks always told me like, you eat your rice plain. And I'm like, yes, every day now they got to put butter, salt, sugar, pepper, sugar. Thank you. Sugar. The sugar was the one. I was like, Are you out of your mind? How dare you to file rice like this? Nothing goes if you decide to put anything on rice, only soy sauce, that is it okay. My grandma would give me the dirtiest looks of ever even put soy sauce on my rice. You don't do that? Soy sauce just on plain rice that's just wait. Have you ever had, like, rice with butter and a little bit of soy sauce all just mixed together? No, that sounds super delicious. So good. I don't know that's the meal in it. So I don't know why, but I used to eat that when I was a little kid. I used to just eat that and nothing else. I might just do that later. It's so good. Butter and a little bit. Just enough soy sauce. Give you a listing. I guess the thing is, also, Asians do not exclusively own rice. Like, from the African countries. Rice is a very big part of the African diaspora, so I do respect that. Folks do eat butter and sugar in their rice, but it's almost like within the black community, we have the whole how do you eat your grits with salt or sugar? That kind of like, I think, for Blasians. It's that kind of disdain for folks just not eating plain rice. Participant #1: I got to ask you guys this question about we're talking like, well, maybe we could do both. Okay, because I was thinking about something, but I want to know what food you guys did not like growing up. But then I also want to know what was your favorite because we didn't talk about that. We talked about rice, didn't we? Sorry, we never talked about our actual. We talked about the side food, which is rice. Yeah. Okay. What did you not like growing up? I don't know what they were called in Filipino, but there were, like, these little things that look like cakes or pies. And I specifically remember going to, like, gatherings and seeing these things and being like, oh, this looks really good. And then eating it, it was like, liver or something. And I'm like, what the is this? I would be so mad. And I got tricked twice between the span of, like, three years. And I remember the second time I was like, God damn it. I remember the first time I was like, seven. I remember the first time I ate this, and it was nasty. And then on the black side, chitlands, y'all ain't going to get me to eat chitlins. Okay, listen, chitlins are my favorite. Okay? They're my favorite. I don't care. Booty noodles. I know they have the infamous nickname Booty noodles. I know they do, but I still love me some booty noodles, but I also like, booty noodles on the Asian side, too, which are hella good. I forget what they are. I feel like almost like multiple countries have fried multiple versions, right? Yeah, but they're fried. And you could put them in this, like, chili powder. Chinese chili powder fire. They're not my favorite food. Fried chitlands, but they're hella good. Yeah, they're fried chitlands. I think something that I don't like. We'll do it both. We'll do Chinese on the black side. I don't like red bean, and that'll get me, like, disowned from my Chinese side, but I just don't like it. It's in so many things. It's in so many pastries and so many desserts, like the little bugs, right? Yeah. I don't like it talking about red beans and rice. I thought that's what it was. No, that's actually fine. That's actually fine. But it's like, straight up, anti black on the Chinese side. It's like sugary, red bean. Yeah, I'm with you on that. I'm with you on that. I don't like the Koreans have a red bean ice type of meal or, like, it's like a dessert, but it's like red bean, shaved ice, sweet milk. The Filipinos have hollow hollow, which is like, similar. It's a dessert with beans in it. And I'm just like, what? I think that's a common theme through Asia. It's like beans in desserts. Yeah, that's meat, meat fresh, fresh. If you've ever gone there, it's like a Taiwanese dessert chain. And just like, oh, yes, we have one. A Taiwanese friend brought me to one in the NYU area, and he was like, he had to warn me. He was like, no, this isn't the kind of dessert you're used to. This is my country because he knows I'm very opinionated. Green beans, red beans and all kinds of beans I don't like, well, this is not Korean, but it's Asian. It's more Thai, but durian, have you ever had that's the smelly fruit. Right. And you know what? There's a couple of people like, you have to get the right time, because sometimes they're a little too tight. If you get them, they taste like throw up. That's the one. It smells like throw up just on top. But it tastes like an Apple and an onion, but also custards. I think it's different types that you get, because the one I had tastes like mine tastes. That's the one I had. It tastes like onion, Apple and custard at the same time. I've never had it. I've always heard about it. You should try it. You definitely should try it. You might like it. I'm a very picky eater, by the way, you can't be picky with all these cultures. Now that might cure your brain. What do they do? You can eat, like, pieces of it, right? Yeah. It's just like, pies or, like, drinks or cakes. Yeah, they do. I think I've seen a jury and drink. Yeah. I used to live in Thailand Participant #1: there. I heard it cures brain fog. Stop it. Don't like that. You know what I really like? I don't like on the black side. I don't like chitlins either. I remember I used to work at a Seoul food restaurant when I was 1415, like, our parents and they would have, like, Chitlin night once a month. And I am telling you it was like, it sold out. Okay, people out the door wanting their bowls of Chitlin because we have to be in the back cleaning them. Oh, no, this is disgusting. Why would people want to eat? I'm like pulling the lining away from the it was disgusting. I don't know why Participant #1: they were just coming and eating these nasty chitlins. Apparently, they were yummy for Chileans, but it doesn't matter. They were chillins, Participant #1: but I do love me some. I mean, all things fried chicken is so good. But I use air fryer now, but fried chicken is like, there's nothing. Wait, do you Cook fried chicken in an air fryer? Yeah, you could do it in your fryer. You still have to brush it in oil, right? To get the crispiness. No, you can actually just spray like, Pam. I don't use Pam. I would use, like, a little healthier of a spray, but, yeah, you can use, like, I use, like, an olive oil spray that doesn't have the propellants in it and stuff. But, yeah, you spray directly on the food. You want to get, like, the healthier sprays, you season it up, put in the air Fry. Boo. Watch you a little YouTube video. It's just like you Friday on the black side. I like all kinds of soulful. I mean, chitlins is a soul food, so they may not do that. But you said fried chicken. I like smothered pork chops. I like fried pork chops. And I like fried catfish. Fried catfish. So good. So good. Catfish is so good. Oh, man. Yes. What about you, Ryan? What about on your black side? What do you like? What I like? Listen, I like almost everything, but isn't it unhealthy? At least that's like, the stigma that it has. Okay, a lot of food is unhealthy. But what do you want? I mean, talk about the stuff. The Americanized Chinese is unhealthy, too. Oh, yeah. I just went to Panda Express, not Panda Express. Those kind of people you went there. I went to Panda Express. Listen, though, they did this YouTube video where they reviewed Panda Express. They had the younger generation like, oh, I saw this. And the older generation review. It just blind taste it. Well, the older generation was blind tasting it, but the younger generation wasn't. They knew what it was. But the older generation was like, this is very good. This is delicious. This is quality. And the younger generation knowing its Panda is so bad. Why Participant #1: there's this TikTok kid whose dad is, like, a master chef or something. I think he said Iron Chef, actually a former Iron chef. And so they bought Panda Express. And then the dad tasted and he was like, no, we need to fix this. So he took all the ingredients from the Panda Express and made, like, a Michelin five star meal out of it. Really interesting. He took all the breading off the chicken and then used the protein. Then he added more vegetables. And stuff. It was really I thought that's why he was talking about. I know, I wish that's what I was talking about, because I want all that. But what about on your Asian ethnicity side, what foods do you like my favorite? I mean, honestly, they're called la ribs, but it's like Cowby, but it's like the marinated. You get them in La for sure. But other places, it's Cowby. It's basically just like beef, short ribs that's marinated. And they cut them, like in black culture. I think we cut the bone. We cut in between the bones. In Korean culture, you cut across each bone so that you have a strip that has little bones within it. So I didn't realize that you cut it differently, but that's basically what it is. It's short ribs. Wait. I know that. I love that. Participant #1: Yeah. It's marinated. And like, what my aunt says she's a Korean chef. She in the restaurant, and she does basically Korean Caro syrup, which is so bad for you, actually, Coca Cola, Korean Carol syrup and other soy sauce, a bunch of stuff. And I was like, oh, my God. That's what's idiot. And I ate it. I was like, this is fabulous. So good. That's one of my favorite Korean foods, actually, aside from KFC, and we're not talking about Kentucky fried chicken, but Korean fried chicken, the Karabi or the galbi, depending on where you are in the world, I guess. And I didn't realize that until you just made that connection for me, like in black culture, or at least I guess in Western, maybe American, because I've seen white people make ribs, too, right? Yeah. It's like you have a rack of ribs and then you cut in between each so that you got a bone with each rib. Yeah. But I remember the dish that you're talking about. It's cut along each bone so that you get, like, circle bone circles. Yeah. You get a piece of the bone like you have one strip of meat, but then it's bone. Bone, bone, bone bone, right? Yeah. So I like that. But for Filipino, definitely, it's chicken nadobo and lechan Kowali and chicken adobo. It's like, I don't know how to explain it. It's like marinated chicken, and it's like a stew. And you eat it with rice. And it's just good. And there are so many different versions of it throughout the Philippines, depending on where you go. Some people use coconut milk. Some people just use soy sauce vinegar. But I think adobo is actually just a cooking process. Not to be confused with Adobo. The all season, right. I didn't know the difference before. I was like, that was a Mexican season. Exactly. I don't even know either one. Oh, my God. When I come back out there, it's like a stew. It's like a Filipino. And then late on Koali is just pork belly fried. And it's good. You have me thinking about all the Chinese foods that I love. Dude, I love Chinese food. Damn. Okay. So what is the difference between, like, give me some examples of real Chinese food as opposed to, like, Americanized Chinese food broccoli beef. Wait, is that real or fake? What? What the hell is that? I never had that before. That is disappointing to hear. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's not chicken, is he even Chinese general? There's a whole documentary about that. How do you say it? I've had that at places that I go to with my family. I don't know if that's, like, here's the thing. When you're in America, a lot of the things that were created as, like, Americanized Chinese food become a part of the staple years and years later, you know what I mean? But Chinese people are making it and making it better, even though it was like an Americanized version of something that was made for the Western palate. Because the history of Chinese food in America starts during the expansion of the west when they brought railroad workers there and they cut off this Chinese men's ability to have families because they didn't let women in their family come. So they had to figure out ways to make money. And one of the ways to make money was laundromats. But also Chinese restaurants and their clientele were white people, so they had to adapt to that palate and sell them food that was exotic enough. You know what I mean? But not too exotic, right? They're not selling booty noodles. They're not going to start with that because you used to live in China, right? Yeah. What are some, like, typical foods there that we don't really have here in America in American Chinese food? Wow. It's interesting that you ask because I grew up with such a plethora of different kinds of Chinese food, like so many different dishes because I was raised Chinese and went to Chinese restaurants my whole life. The difference to me isn't that big. There is nothing in China Besides, like, fried Scorpion or like, fried baby turtle. Scorpion. Yeah, that's different. But like most of the things I had already had before, and if I looked real hard, I could find you can't really get a fried baby turtle here because they don't do that shit to turtles in America or a Scorpion. You're not going to find a Scorpion because there's not a huge market for people wanting that. Did you try that, by the way? Yeah. Just tastes like crispy. Wait, the whole thing, like the Stinger and everything. Yes. Well, I'm sure they clean that. I don't know. I wasn't asking no questions. I was just eating. Even though I'm not Chinese, I feel like I might be able to lend some insight here because I grew up outside of New York and in a very rural mid America, every town USA Chinese food, Americanized type. I grew up around that. But then I moved to New York and got to know real Chinese people and places that are not Americanized. And I now know that food. So you think of, like the general society and you think of the beef and broccoli. You think of that kind of stuff that's in every town USA Chinese food. But then when I think about Chinese food, like, I don't want Chinese people to drag me for saying this. But like, dim sum and the different kinds of dumplings, like dumplings is a thing that are not so mainstream. If you live in a big city like La or NYC or maybe even Atlanta, maybe dumplings are more common. But like dumplings different forms of shumai the vegetables, the types of noodles, like the flat noodles that they roll up and then you like, pour soy sauce on it and then eat with your chopsticks and big blobs of there's a lot that, like everyday USA person that only eats American Chinese food is missing out on. I took some friends to Dim Sum the first time I came back from visiting New York. We actually had dim sum in Memphis of all places, and they had chicken feet. And my friends are like, what is this? First of all, I was shook that it was even in Memphis, but like, chicken feet are I don't necessarily hate them, but I don't necessarily order them all the time. I can eat them, but they just kind of taste, like very gelatinous. I like the sauce. But anytime I invite somebody to dim sum that hasn't tried them before, I'm ordering them, what is dim sum? We've mentioned this twice. Dimsum is a Chinese morning cuisine. At least that's what it has become and developed into. But when I was in Hong Kong, which is because dim sum is a Cantonese thing. And the majority of Hong Kong they speak Cantonese. It's the best there, because that's where it started. No dim sum anywhere in the world is beating even like a hole in the Wallspot in Hong Kong is the format the same for all dims. Like, in terms of you sit at a table and people come around with carts and then you like, it's not like that everywhere. And they kind of ended that I live in Monterey Park, like Alhambra in La, which is like China. And growing up here going to the restaurants, that was the norm. But that quickly has gone away. And it went away even before COVID because people preferred it to be fresh. And what they realized is even though it's on a cart, it's not fresh, like I'd rather have it made to order than hailed down a cart that's been driving around for I don't know how long in between these tables. You know what I mean? Trying to sell Participant #1: and getting the best food. That is definitely an experience that people should have with Dimsum, but I've already had it, and I want some fresh stuff. Participant #1: Okay. Because I see different things at Dim sum. So is it the concept of it comes in that little wooden bowl thing? Participant #1: Okay. So it's not necessarily the pork bun, Participant #1: but I will eat a pork bun. Which pork bun are you talking about? The one that's, like, a little bit, the white one. Participant #1: That is good. But I prefer the honey glazed one I've never had, never had. They're like, golden, right? Yes. They're like, golden and round. Yes. So you're going to make me go to Tim Houan after this, go immediately drag me out. That's, like going to Apple Beach. You know what's crazy? We're having this conversation. And I'm realizing, like, how much I actually love Chinese food because people would ask me what my favorite is. Sometimes I'd say Japanese. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. But really, it is Chinese, because I have such a wide variety of things that I know that I've eaten my whole life, and it's only when I leave somewhere and I can't get it. Then I'm like, wow, I need to go back home immediately, or I need to go to China immediately because I don't have it. And living in La, too, is such a melting pot of all these Chinese provinces and Taiwan and Hong Kong that you don't kind of get anywhere else, like in China. I wasn't getting that. But in America, in La, I get all of it. I get dimsum. I get Szechuan. I get all these different places, like, you're talking about Northern Chinese or Southern Chinese or Central Chinese. Like, the food is different. So many different kinds isn't like that in Korea and the Philippines, too. No. So here's the thing about Korea is very because I think the military presence has changed a lot of, like, just the landscape of the country. One thing that I noticed in Korea is, of course, Korean food is fire there, of course. But they have a lot of other foods that are not traditionally Korean that have become great. Like, Jonathan, you said the Korean fried chicken, which is I will tell you, Korean fried chicken is like, better than American fried chicken. Every good place that I've gone to that has Korean fried chicken. And I always wondered, how did Korean fried chicken get so good? And I was talking to my dad and I was talking to a couple of other people who were living in Korea back in the day, and they were just like, Yo. It's really because of the soldiers because the black soldiers would come over there. They would be like, I'm trying to make some chicken and taught people over there how to make it so they can have it. And then Korean people just perfected it, right? I don't know. Just their technique of cooking. Wow. Perfected it. And it's just like, wow, that's amazing. The ultimate Blasian food, right. But, yeah, I love that. But when I think about just the Asian cultures in general, honestly, my favorite is not even Korean. I default to Korean because I know it, but it's not my favorite. If I had to pick one Asian food, like one country. Okay. It would actually be. This is hard for me. I think I would have to do Japanese. I would do sushi every day. Wow. And the funny part is, Korean is not even second. Korean 3rd second. A very close second is Vietnamese love Vietnamese. I can never even talk about that. We need to bring some folks in higher. Yeah, we do need to bring some other Bayesian food Vietnamese. But out of all the genres of food in the world, I will say Asian, of course, is my favorite. Yes. And checking for European food. People food. What do they even over, like, soul food, even over anything American, like, I'd rather have Asian food all day. Every day, all day, every day. It's hard for me to say, I'm sorry, really. There are some soul foods that I do like, but like you say, well, we get the best of both worlds, don't we? We do. Yeah. When you guys were growing up, did you ever have, like, even to this day, I have friends who always make fun of me. Like, what you eat today? Making cat. Are you eating dogs? Koreans are known for eating dogs. And I asked my mom, I was like, Why is that a thing? Why do people think Koreans eat cats and dogs? And she was like, well, she said, well, there's some people that do in Korea. I was like, what lie? I was just about to say because they do. She's like, in the country like that's out in the rural areas, that wasn't like a normal thing. It wasn't taboo to eat a dog or cut up a dog, put them in your stew. But she was like, That's not normal. Even for Korean people. We would still be like, EO two, but that's very rare. Well, I'm not going to sit here in front, like, I didn't just talk to my mom in the year 2021 and ask her the same question. And she said yes about the Philippines as well. And I also cross reference with a friend who is from the Philippines. And it's very much the same response. Like, out in the country, like, in the rural areas, they still do it, or they did it when she was growing up. She's dog and beer. And it's like, what dog and beer? That was the delicacy of the day. I give you a dog and a cold one. Yes. What? Come on, Ryan, don't act like the Chinese don't have no weird. We probably ate the most dogs in the world. Okay. But you know what? We can talk about it because Chinese people have the most interesting stuff that I will never eat, like, shark balls or whatever. Definitely not bad. Yeah. Japanese got shark. Japanese got Sharks. They do shark balls. Yeah. Shark balls. Shark fin testicles. Or just like, balls, shark balls. They got testicles. Country people do that, too. It's called hogmos. My dad said they used to eat that back in the day. I was like, Wait, what pig testicles? He's like, yeah, pretty good. Chinese people do eat kind of everything. I feel like in both sides of the culture, like, poverty influences how much of the animal you eat. And in both of our side's cases, there have been times of extreme poverty or even enslavement where we get the scraps as black folks, that the amount of the animal you eat is 100% of it, all of it. So there are things where people are like, oh, I'm not going to eat that. That's how you eat booty noodles. I like that word. It was funny noodles. Participant #1: And we're going to talk about what it was like eating our specific culture's food and how people may or may not have judged us for the smells and maybe even the taste of it if we let them taste it. I remember going to middle school and bringing because my grandma would always make me lunch, and I would bring dumplings or her. Oh, my God. Her ginger, her ginger, garlic crab. And it smelled funky, but it tasted hella good. I would always get looks and sort of like repulsed faces when I whip it out. Most of the time. I didn't care, because that literally is my favorite dish in the whole world. So I did not care if anyone was judging me. I'm still bringing that and eating the hell out of it at school. Did you guys have any experience like that bringing food to school that people looked at like crazy? Okay, so I grew up in a military town, so pretty much everybody that I was around kind of always had some friends of some other culture, so they were kind of used to different foods. If anything, I think people would have that effect or would have a negative view when I brought Kimchi because kimchi is so pungent. But kimchi is so good. I haven't really met too many people that didn't like it once they tasted it. But it does stink up everything to the point where most Korean people, and I'm sure probably your moms, too, have multiple refrigerators in the house. We had the main refrigerator in the kitchen, and then we had a refrigerator in the basement. And then somewhere along the lines, my mom got a third refrigerator that goes into the garage. And that one is specifically for the kimchi. Yes, I grew up with a garage refrigerator. I did, because the only time I had multiple things like that was on my black side is multiple deep freezers because we had to keep fried pies and then deer meat like we're country, we hunted. I mean, I didn't Hunt Dennison for the more bougie out there, but all these things. So that was on the black side. I never got made fun of for bringing any kinds of foods to school because, I don't know. Maybe it was just Southern California in the 90s. We didn't really bring food to school. I'm sure some people did. But I was on a lunch program. I paid for my, like, one dollars. 25. Not the school lunches. Participant #1: Yes. Not the sloppy Joe's. Wait, hold on, Ryan. You grew up in Southern California, too. You didn't have public school lunch. I ain't eating that shit. You missed out on pizza Fridays with them. It's not like I never ate it. Of course I ate it. But the alternative was always better for me. You were the kid that busted out the chopsticks. Hell, yeah. Participant #1: I went to school with everybody but black people. Oh, all right. You were the .1% Participant #1: most of my child is majority white and then Asian. And then I switched schools and went to a majority Asian and Mexican school. They weren't really making fun of you then, right? They knew that food not at that school, not at the predominantly Asian school. They weren't making fun of me. No. So I have a story about this. I thought I was going to be made fun of, but I was the only one who knew. And it is about food, but it's not about eating the food. So I specifically, this idea has stuck with me for my entire life. It was kindergarten. It was probably first grade. We had to cut out. It was a matching game. Right. So the workbook said, use scissors to cut out the picture and then glue it to the thing that it makes sense with whatever it was. I don't know. But we didn't have glue. And so my mom and my Lilo are, like, just use rice. Oh, my God. Participant #1: Nobody knew that it was rice. Participant #1: Perfect. That is genius. That is literally genius right there. That's, like, environmentally friendly. Yeah. Just use rice for glue. Oh, my God. Wow. I will say that now that I think about it, I don't think I was really made fun of growing up, but as an adult, you guys. So I work at a comedic company. All we do is make comedic content with comedians. Right. So I remember being in the office and I would make my own food. And one of my favorite foods to make is like, mackerel. Because Korean culture, we do a lot of fried mackerel. And so I brought my mackerel. I would put it in the fridge, and then I would heat it up for lunch. And everybody in that place was like, Megan cannot bring fish in here ever again. They had a whole meeting about why we can't bring stinky foods, aka fish into the break room and heat it up. And I felt so offended. I was like, y'all, first of all, this Maple is fired. Okay. Exactly how my mom would make it. And so I feel really offended that y'all won't let me bring this in here, but I say no about nobody else's food. Okay, everybody other people's food is very pungent. Just because you like the smell doesn't mean it's okay, because if that's the case, and I'm not to say we can't have no tacos in here. Don't reheat your quesadillas. I don't want to see no fried chicken, even though it's yummy, because it is pungent because it's a smell too, right? What if that offends me? You know what I'm saying? I was so mad. Everybody at a comedy place of all places. Yes, they still make fun of me to this day. Remember when Megan used to bring up the place? Oh, my God. That's a mess. Okay, we are back. And I want to ask you all as adults, how has your growing up like the food you grew up with? How does that affect you nowadays as an adult? Well, Filipino food is very carb, intense and fatty intense. And I'm thick. So that's how it has impacted me. Participant #1: Ryan, you met me in real life. You know, I'm a little chunky, but that's fine. You think you're not chunky? You thick. Come on. Okay. You're right. I got that way. But it wasn't from the Asian food. Now it was all from the Southern stuff. Okay. And wings. There's a wing spot on every corner in Atlanta. Wait a second. Do Asian cultures like wings as much as black culture does, I feel like they do typically as much as black culture. Well, I know, like my Korean family loves fried chicken, though, but not fried chicken, but specifically wings wings. I don't Participant #1: think a black thing. Why do we like wings so much? That good. Lights over the different kinds of wings, the best flavors or whatever. Yes, they're so good. I don't know why they're so good, but they are. Oh, wait. I'll answer the question. How has it affected me? I eat Chinese food all the time. Still, to this day, and I think just loving Chinese food so much is like every meal is Asian. If it's not Chinese, I was going to ask you, do you consider, quote Chinese food or do you just say food? Yeah, that's a good question. I guess it's either. Or sometimes because when I'm talking to my grandma, it's like when we say food, there's no other option. We're getting Chinese food. So she asks me what I want to eat. It's like we're going to go get some kind of Chinese food Participant #1: with certain family members. It is just food. I noticed that, as you're saying. And I'm thinking about what do we do? I don't particularly Cook as much Korean food because of the amount of ingredients that goes into it. And I'm sure your foods are like that, too. But I'm not about to cut up every scallion, every onion, every chili pepper. I don't want to cut up all that. So I'll go buy it. But I notice, though, if I'm doing Uber eats or something, Asian genre is always top two for me. And then when I look at my fiancee from the Caribbean, so he's always wanting something Caribbean. So I was like, how funny or he'll be like, I want something like Southern or I'm just like, no, we're going to do sushi again. We're going to do Vietnamese. I always lean just towards Asian. And I also have two rice cookers. I have, like, the small one. Participant #1: Okay. When I was single, living by myself, I had the little small pot. It's really teeny. It's just enough for one person. But now that I have a family, my mom got me, like, the industrial strength, like rice cooker that can make rice. I need that small one. I'm single over here, and I always make too much rice. That's what I'm saying. It's great. It's just enough for one person, and it's really easy. I hate to sidetrack here, but you just reminded me of a life event milestone event that I just went through in the past month. Megan, I am able to afford a Zoju Douche rice cooker, and I bought one. What? It's the brand of rice cooker. Why are you looking at me like, I'm crazy. I don't know what that is. It's the elephant, the elephant rice cooker. They're very expensive. I probably already been having one of those. You probably have one in your house. Sorry, the motorcycle gang of the world is going by the real thing. I was like, Why am I spending so much on a rice cooker? Number one? Well, number one, I grew up with seeing this. But when I made the rice, you all this rice was perfect. Why is it so? Because it's so perfect. It makes the rice. Now here's the thing. Remember I told you when I moved in with my dad, we were just using pots or whatever. We didn't have a rice cooker. When I got out on my own work in retail, I wanted to get a rice cooker. And I only got, like, the Walmart Black and Decker rice cooker here in my mid 30s. Now I have purchased the straight up Asian rice cooker and this thing, it takes a whole hour to make rice, but that rice is so perfect and consistent all the way through. Jeez, Participant #1: it's that good. No, go ahead. What are you going to say? Does it play the song when it's done? It plays the song and everything. You know what? My mom the one that she got me. I don't even know the brand. It's just everything is in Korean. The directions are Korean. The buttons are in Korean, so I literally have to like, thank God I can read Korean, and it has a setting for white rice mixed rice Brown rice. It has different settings. So I had to learn because I didn't know what the different names of rice were. In Korean. So I had to go look it up. I was like, what is this? Like, I had to type it in Korean. I had to type it because I could say it, but I didn't know what it meant. And so then I looked at it. I was like, oh, that's the mixture I setting. So I was like, okay, let me push that one. But literally everything. All the directions are in Korean. Man, I love that about Korean that you can actually read it like, there's an Alphabet and you can sound it out and then write it. You can't do that in Chinese interpretation. You look at it and it's like, I have no idea what that means. So I'm just not going to know what that means. Are there, like, a couple of words that you can recognize? Yeah, I can read a lot. But if I don't know what it is, I have to write it down. And then there's no dictionary that I can go to. I just realized that iphone has a handwriting system. You can look at something and handwrite it. Then you copy and paste that and then go to the dictionary, copy and paste the dictionary. And then you find out what the word is. But don't they have multiple, like, you could type in GE, and then they'll give you options to choose that's if you know what the opinion is. All right. If you know what the phonetical English version, right. Okay. I see what you're saying character and you're like, Well, I don't know what that says. So there's no way I can just type it in. Got you that's so hard. I feel like you have to spend your entire life learning Chinese. Yeah. You don't stop once you get out. Literally. Never. They said, when I first started taking Chinese, they said, oh, to be completely fluent, you have to know 28,000 characters. I'm like, why didn't you all make an Alphabet so we could just put these together, inform words. Well, this is very interesting because I study Japanese, and so along the lines of that. So think of English. You know how? Like, in English, we have $10 words, and then someone might say a word and you're like, wow, that's a big word. I don't know what that means. Like, for at least Japanese folks who basically lifted Chinese language and then made it their own version with the Kanji 28,000. It's like, sometimes you'll see a character and you're just like, I don't know the fuck that is. Like, I don't know that one. So that's a little off track. But I just wanted to throw that in there. Wait, what's up? Participant #1: Filipino? They've been colonized by so many folks, and it's a mixture of Spanish stuff. And then, like, English, three colonial native languages out there. But it's letters, though, right? Yeah, it's letters. Participant #1: US being Blasians. We have this kind of or rather, there are things that have happened in the world where, like, you can look at something that looks the same, but it's two different things and us as Blasians. We can kind of deliberate as to what's going on here. So I'll be upfront about it in New York. At least this was going all over the place, like next chart, jackfruit, a couple of years ago, you've probably heard about it. But there was this white woman who started a Chinese food restaurant, but it was a more healthy, clean version of Chinese American food. It was called Lucky Lee's, and a little from the person who started it. Her name is Ariel Haspell. She was a nutritionist who told folks that she created this restaurant with modified or clean Chinese American recipes for people who love to eat Chinese food and love the benefit that it will actually make them feel good. She said that she had many clients with dietary restrictions who couldn't indulge in dishes like Lo main fried rice and Kung pale chicken. So she developed gluten, less weightless, refined sugar, less GMO, less additive free versions of those dishes, or, as she wanted to call it, she helpified them. So naturally, she received a lot of backlash on social media with one person saying, this white woman just opened a, quote, clean Chinese food restaurant. Not only is she using Chinese food stereotypes, naming she is shaming traditional Chinese food cooking with MSG. Grease and starch. So have you heard about that, or have you seen where white people will take something from any of the Asian countries and think that they've perfected it? And how do you feel about that? Here's the thing. I actually don't have a problem with that, because the truth is, if you took any of our food and said, I'm going to create a healthier version, I'm okay with that, because the truth is fried chicken is unhealthy Sunday, which is like you're using an outer intestine stuff with rice and stuff stuck. That's unhealthy. There's a lot of unhealthy stuff in our culture. So if somebody wants to, a white woman wants to create a healthier version. That is fine. However, Participant #1: don't call it Lucky Lee's, unless your name is Lee Ma'am. Don't do that or just say, just say healthful Chinese, whatever, because there's nothing wrong with going, oh, I love this food. I wish I could have more of it, but because of my dietary issues, I can't. That's cool. But now the naming and then don't lie and say because I know there's a couple of restaurants in Atlanta that try to front like their black owned, but they're not right. So don't front either owns. Wait, what? That's a whole not an issue. But I'm just saying, be honest. I am the owner of this establishment. I love Chinese food. My clients love Chinese food, but it's not always the healthiest. So I created a new version that is healthy because guess what? It's probably not as good. Let's be real. The problem that I have with it is that there is healthy Chinese food already. That part there already is healthy Chinese food. She's just talking about Kung Pao chicken, right. The American version. Yes. And also I have a problem with the name, too. It's like, Who's Lee? That's your homeboy. Like, who is that? Do you know him or are you so lucky? Yeah. Why is Lee so lucky? And who is this man to you? Sorry. To the span. Yeah. And there was another the Queen of Kanji. Her name was actually Karen. And it's the verbiage that they use. They say we're going to improve it. We're going to make it healthier. And also the stereotype of, like, you're going to make all Chinese food healthier. Or you're just going to pick these dishes that may or may not be healthy to you because all you've had is Americanized Chinese food, and you're going to make those versions healthy and then say, you made Chinese food, all of it healthier. You know what I mean? That's sort of the problem. But I agree with you in the sense of like, oh, there's some dishes that you want to make healthier for yourself because you have dietary restrictions and other people might have those same dietary restrictions. You can do that. But don't say you're making Chinese food healthier. You know what I mean? And don't call your restaurant Lucky Leaves. You know what she could have honestly like. And that's the other part of it is when people I think you want to change Americanized Chinese food to make it healthier, quote, unquote. Okay, cool. But if you're doing Chinese food, like you said, there are healthy Chinese, you should have incorporated some of those on your menu and said, oh, this is like, traditional Chinese. This is part of the dietary restrictions that you have. You can actually eat this. And this is it's not uplifting Chinese food. It's saying that Chinese food as a whole is unhealthy, and I'm making it better for your unrefined, uncultured style. I don't know. I didn't need to say that, but that's how I like MSG. It's yummy. I mean, sometimes you just want to eat some trash food and not trash in a bad way. I'm talking about unhealthy food. Sometimes you just want to do that. Now. I'll tell you, I went to Lucky Leaves before it closed down in less than a year, and it was not good. Of course I was like, I don't think this place is going to be fired. You know that we got Buddhists like, hella Buddhist, Chinese people. We got hella Buddhist, and they don't eat meat, and they eat hella healthy and clean. And there I go to those restaurants on occasion, I try to go there more because it's healthier for you. But there are also so many different recipes that have developed on that side of the vegetarian scope of Chinese cuisine that are fire right. Like with this vegan boom that has happened in America, the vegan boom has also affected Chinese cuisine. They're finding different recipes. They're finding, like, oh, using this sauce to make this kind of food that tastes like fried chicken. But it's like mushrooms. You know what I mean? You know what one of my favorite vegan restaurants is actually in Hollywood, almost close to Beverly Hills, and it is like, vegan and authentic Chinese people. And it's so good. Yeah, it's bomb. I have one down the street. I go there a lot and it's really good and there's no meat. But I wanted to ask Jonathan, I want to know the entire experience, from seeing it outside to walking into the door to the smells to the people who are working the restaurant. I want to know the whole Lucky Lee's experience back then. Whatever year this was, it was probably like, 2016 something around there 2017 out here in New York. It was a big deal and held. The Chinese people were upset because she had said this thing. She was getting dragged. And I was like, let me go on and go over here. And it's an NYU area by Washington Square Park for the listeners who don't know that's, like, where I am. Legend happened where Will Smith lived across the street from that park with the arch. That's where it was. I saw the sign just like in the news articles that I had seen New York Times, New York, all of them. I was like, oh, this is the place. So I get in there and there's, like, this old white man serving. And then I'm just like, and it's like, but based style. It's like, you walk in and he like, scoops it onto your plate. And I was just like, okay, I think I got the Orange chicken that they had prepared. It wasn't good. You know, how, like, a lot of the Americanized Chinese foods, it's like, fried. And it's got the crust around the meat. And that's, like, the difference is the sauce, like, general. So it's like a kind of spicy sauce. But then you can taste the same piece of chicken and just put Orange sauce on it. And it's Orange chicken. It was like a bunch of the bread that surrounds the chicken with very little chicken. I was just like, this is a vegetarian dish. Or did I just misread this, like, does it not have meat? So it was really weird. And the thing that really got me was like, they didn't serve Pepsi or Coke drink. They were like, bougie, like, Lacroix and things like this, like sparkling water, which that just made me. Maddie, it was before a choir rehearsal. And I always need my energy before choir rehearsal. And now I was just upset because very on brand Lacroix, whatever it's called. Yeah, they insist on you saying Croix, not Cris La Croix. Well, the whole reason I even bring up lucky leads. That was just for comparison's sake, because I did say as Oblation this year, in 2021, there was someone based in Capitol Heights, Maryland, who his name is. I forgot his name, but they call him Chef Austin. And he made a pop up Chinese food restaurant, American Chinese food with a black twist called Black Dragon. And so I think you've already answered the question of like, is this okay? It's cool for people to make other folks dishes as long as you're respectful, right. I think we agree on that. So I want to read this to you and acknowledge some things that happened between black and Asian communities and then get your take on it. So Black Dragon Chef Austin noticed that his neighborhood of Capitol Heights, Maryland, a largely African American community, was surrounded by businesses like liquor stores, food carry outs and convenience stores. And I feel like that's code for something wink wink. So most of these businesses are owned by people that do not necessarily have the community's best interest in mind. Black Dragon was created to be an option for those wanting to support someone that grew up in the neighborhoods where they serve their food. I think they probably meant to serve that food, because if we're talking about African American or black American communities with convenience stores, liquor stores and what else take out restaurants, then like I said, it's cold, but we're talking about Chinese food and Asian owned businesses in black neighborhoods. Right? And the whole reason why he started this is because he felt like black folks weren't being respected in those businesses which are in the neighborhoods in which they are gaining the money from. He basically took Chinese food and said, I'm going to sell Chinese food here and people who want to support. First of all, if you want Chinese food, you can buy it from me, and I will respect you. How do you feel about that? Wow. Participant #1: Yeah. Ryan, I want to know because you're Chinese people. Participant #1: I don't know, man. I'm torn because I know what it's like to be treated like to receive anti blackness from Chinese people. But I also am Chinese, but it's different for me to make a Chinese restaurant and sell to black people and be like, I'll respect you because I actually am Chinese too. You're black, and I'm black. So if the chef is not Chinese, I don't know if that was his intention, like revenge was his intention. But section of his website, he specifically says that the reason why he is selling Chinese food is because he's noticed in his neighborhood these other folks, whoever that might be that own these liquor stores and take out places and convenience stores that don't respect the neighborhood. I mean, it's complicated. I think there's appropriation, and I think there's just wanting respect. I don't know if he's appropriating Chinese food because I haven't tasted it. I haven't seen how he's represented it, but it makes sense to, like, I like this kind of food, and I like eating it. I just don't like the disrespect that I receive when I go to buy it. Or I go and sit in a restaurant because I felt that I know how it feels. So that's one thing. And I don't know if he's appropriating it, but he could just be making Chinese food that's authentic. He could be hiring Chinese people. You know what I mean? He could be really paying respect to it. And so I don't have a problem with what I've heard so far. This is the only question I have is the food good? Yeah. I think the food is good. Okay. If the food is good, I don't have a problem with it. Okay. Don't come in this neighborhood talking about something. I'm going to be black and making shiny food, and the food is trash. Like, Karen at Lucky, if it's going to be nasty, then you don't have a dog in this fight where there's no point in you doing this. But if your food is actually really good, then I don't have a problem with somebody improving upon. Right. So if you're like, oh, the food is really good, and there's a cultural aspect of it. I wasn't respected because we've all been in communities where there's been Asian people who may not have recognized the Asians in us and have treated us a certain way because they thought we were 100% black. And then you might have seen the shift when they realized that you're like me. Oh, okay. I've seen it a billion times with Korean people, and I'm not offended by it anymore because I understand where it comes from. And I understand Korean people culturally and what it's like in Korea. Is it wrong? Absolutely. But I understand why they are the way they are. So I don't have any problem with him going. I want to be in my neighborhood where I grew up and I like Chinese food. Or even if you were doing a fusion, one that would be even better to be like, I'm going to do a fusion. Maybe that's what it is. Maybe. I don't know if it's like, because I feel like you would have to blackify it up a little bit, right. Like, I don't feel like it's going to be regular broccoli and beef. It's going to be a little bit. I'm interested to see what that is. Well, I can tell you right now because I pulled up the website while you were speaking. It is more refusion. And here are some of the names of the dishes. General Mose chicken, mildly spit your water out. Orange lime chicken, beef and broccoli. So not beef and broccoli, but like, weebly, Participant #1: I want to go now. Black dress. Participant #1: Where is it? It's in Maryland. So here's my thing. There were people like saying cultural appropriation this that and the third. And my thing is this like, how many Chinese food restaurants, or rather, how many places have you been where it wasn't the ethnicity of the person making the food that you were wanting. So especially in New York Chinese restaurants. Now they've taught other people to make the food and they're in the kitchen making it. And then it's just going out. But that wasn't the main thing that convinced me that it's like, okay, this is okay. Black Dragon is cool with me. I don't have any beef against Black Dragon. This was it. And I got to point to the Koreans, specifically, Korean folks have the monopoly on the black hair care industry and have been selling black folks wigs weaves beauty products, specifically, not fair and lovely. That's Indian, just for me, just all of that stuff, like black products to black folks. And I guess not just Korean, like, there are Chinese owned business, Asian owned businesses where they're in neighborhoods. And it's not that they're selling food. It's not that they're selling convenience stores. They're selling specifically black products to black people in black neighborhoods. After I realized that that's been a thing for decades, I was like, oh, no, I have no problem with Black Dragon. Not one bit. Not whatsoever. Black man want to sell Asian food to Asian people and everybody else. Fine. Cool. Because here's the thing. I don't blame the owners of these restaurants. And I tell you why, because you can't stay in business without there being a demand. If there's nobody buying your product, it doesn't matter what you're selling. And even with hair care, you know what I'm saying? And this is personal to me because my uncle worked at one of the biggest hair weave suppliers to the point where I'll be like, uncle, can you send me some? Because I'm going to send it to my friends. Okay. He had hair, and my mom ended up opening. She opened a hair store. It was like half hat hair. There was some products in there, but it wasn't like a full beauty supply store. But the thing about it is my mom wouldn't have been in business if there wasn't black people coming to buy her products. So I don't fault her. Of course, she wasn't one of the Korean people. That was rude to her customers because we've seen that, right. But that wasn't her. She was selling a product and people were buying it. Now, if a white woman wanted to come in here and buy this weave, she would have sold it to her. But that's not who was buying it. It was black women buying it. And so when I see that the Koreans have this huge monopoly on black hair care products, to me, that doesn't say anything about the Korean people that says more about black people. Why are we not monopolizing stuff that is about our hair? But you know that Korean people locked black people out of being able to purchase the wigs and get into the business of selling to black people. But here's the thing. When you learn about that, a lot of these hair care products and hair in itself didn't come from Korea. That's the crazy part. But when you start to learn and black people have had to face trying to get into a lot of stuff, a lot of industries, a lot of everything, including hair care. Right? But we find a way we make a way or we make our own way after when it does happen. So it's like again, I can't fault Asian people when it comes to hair care products, because now if you look at 2021, you go to the shelves in Target. A lot of these products are made by black people. So it's possible. And it came out of a necessity of like, oh, well, there's only major corporate brands. It doesn't really serve me. I need something different. Let me get into my kitchen and see what I can whip up. And now this is a multi billion dollar company. But that's what we have to do. And I think that's very important to point out for black people. Instead of pointing a finger and being like, you're making it hard for me instead, do what we've always done, what our parents and our grandparents have done and go around and say, I'm going to find another way because this doesn't serve me and you're keeping me from entering something that is important for me. I agree. That goes right back to what I said in the first episode about how I got into it with that Blasian person because a black woman said black dollars should be going to black businesses. I agree with what Meg says. If there wasn't a demand for it, then they would be out of business. That's what I'm saying. If you feel wrong, then go somewhere where it's your own people selling the thing that you need. So in this case, I will not patronize the business that does not respect me. I don't care if I have to drive further, take another bus, walk another mile. I will do that in spite, because you're treating me like trash. And there's so many people who are like, I've gone to this Korean convenience store and they were so rude to me. Don't go there anymore. There's a million more. Do not give them your money. They should not have your money. Matter of fact, start your own convenience store, be like Black Dragon. Start to own your own Chinese restaurant because somebody slided you and make sure it's the best thing ever so that people will patronize your business. I want to say that I agree with all that about black people realizing this and creating their own businesses, which we're doing now. But pointing the finger that Koreans, I think is wrong because it's the system. The system was created to block entry for black people to even own these stores in these businesses first and foremost, it's the system. Koreans saw this advantage in the system and took advantage of it because they needed to survive. You know what I mean? So when black people point their finger at Koreans, it's just like, listen, Meg, you're right about that. It's not the Koreans. But at the same time, black people have been so disenfranchised in terms of education and opportunities, they don't even know that they can't even get to that level of understanding. And also, when it comes to, like, don't patronize that business, a lot of black people don't have even the means or the time to go somewhere else where it's not owned by Koreans. And I think that's why you're starting to see black people creating all these natural products. Right. And these businesses are starting to proliferate because that's all the things that I have in my bathroom in terms of hair products, are all these brands that are good. They're actually very good. You know what I mean? So I just want to say that because I have hope and I understand how deep it goes because they tend to make us pin it. The system tends to make us have animosity towards each other when really we were just both trying to survive in a broken system. Right. Because you can't sit here and tell me an immigrant who doesn't even speak English had more chance than you did. They don't even know the language. And you're telling me that they can be more successful in this country, and it's their fault. You can't tell me that there's an ounce of laziness in that. And I say that. And I say that fervently, because I know how hard it is as a black woman, as an Asian woman in this country, it's not easy. And so when things are not easy, you then have to work harder. And it's not fair. It's not fair. Nobody's saying it's fair. But you cannot blame other people because they made entry for you hard. Okay. Because Ash, your grandmamma, Ash, your great grandmamma go on down the line. They've had it hard. They've been had it hard. This is not a new story, but the question, what are you going to do to get around that? Yeah. And I think a lot of times, Jonathan, I know we're so off topic. A lot of the times. I feel like black people associate so much with their oppression that they become it as opposed to becoming the overcoming of the oppression. Right. The face is not because we're off topic. I'm just thinking really hard about how to respond to this because I did mention, like, yes. And there's articles about this and accounts by black women who have tried to get into these businesses. And the workaround, as problematic as it sounds, is to fake a Korean accent on the phone so that Korean people would not know that you're black so that they would give you the information for vendors of hair or black products. So when we say things like, oh, you can't say it's hard because these people came to this country and the languages that's different than actively pushing people out of a business that is for the benefit of the people that are trying to get into the business. So wigs and weave and hair care products been selling these to black people, locking them out by not sharing the information of where you get or not even selling to black people so that they can get the product wholesale and then sell it to black people. Those are two different things. But here's the thing. I would agree with you if this was another country, this is America. It's a very capitalistic country. It's not about helping people, right? Literally. These people, Asian people, Korean people, specifically, are in the beauty care business for money. That's it. And usually it's because they know somebody, a vendor or somebody who can help. So it's like, oh, it's easier. I know this person. They sell hair in Asia somewhere. I can get it easily here. That's it. It's a money grab. It's not about helping people, right? And I say that and as harsh as it is and being a black woman who uses black hair care products, it's harsh for me to say that because I understand it. It's not fair. Again, it's not fair. They're literally locking people out. But guess what? There's a workaround like you said, having a fake an accent. How many times have we had to fake accents on a phone interview sounding white or sounding something else so that people would hire us and the stereotypes that come with it don't change their view on it, right? All of that is wrong. Again, I'm not saying it's a good thing. I'm saying this is not the first time that black people have had to do that. This is something we have grown accustomed to, but because we've had to do it for so long, for centuries, work around it. Use your Asian accent. I don't care if I have to put on every Korean accent. China, Where's the vendor from China? It's going to be terrible. Okay? I don't care. I will do what I have to do to make it happen. And that's what I'm talking about. And you're like, and you're correct. It's wrong for them to actively be like, no, I'm not going to help you. But this is not a new story, right? We've had, like in the past, every business, whether it was like Jewish, white Irish, somebody always trying to keep black people out of stuff. That's just how it is. But the beauty of black people is that because nobody else has had to face as much adversity as black people, we have learned to like, nothing can stop us. And I am a firm believer. I don't care. You can try your best to lock me out of this business. I will call even as black people, I work at a black like company and the history of my company. If you go back 2030 years, when it was a different iteration, in order to even get black comedy on TV, they had to get a white man to vouch for them. They just paid this man to just say, you're on our team. You ain't got to do nothing but you legitimize us with white people and make it look. And mind you, this white man didn't do nothing but just said he was a part of them. He didn't do any work. They just used his name. He was a cool Jewish dude. And the Jewish people who ran TV were like, oh, we can use. Okay, we'll work with this company because you're a part of it. And that's not fair. But again, as black people, we have to learn the workaround. How do we make this happen? Because we know there's going to be obstacles and we know you're going to try to stop us. I'm sorry. I'm just very passionate. I guess the full circle moment here is start your own place like black Dragon. There you go. Start it, or you can try and start your lucky leaves. Now, it may not work, honey. Fill the nasty food, but learn from the mistake. Learn from the mistake. This has been quite an interesting episode, and we've been all around the world and back with it until the next time. We hope that you have enjoyed this. Why don't we go around the Horn just one last time and sign up? I'm Jonathan A-K-A. Blatant. F-M-A. And I really appreciate you, too. I really appreciate you all. I love you. My name is Meghan Thomas at megscope everywhere. Follow me. Hit me up. Send me a message. I'm going to talk to you for real. I'm with that, too. I'm Ryan Alexander Holmes, aka at Ryan Alex on all socials and hit me up because I want to talk about topics like this. I'm grateful for this podcast, and I think we're making an impact. I think we're like speaking to people that maybe have never had a voice before. Well, until the next time. Everybody, we'll see you around. Participant #1: Bye.