You're listening to a Mother with Me podcast.
Hello and welcome to biz in Box. I'm m Burnham and look I'm recording from home today. I have talked about working from home before, and I'm working from home today. I started work at nine am and I woke up at nine am.
And I'm so first and that is amazing. It's probably the greatest benefit of working from home. I love that for you, m I love it. I never want to go back anyway. Every week we answer your burning career questions in the simplest way possible because we're busy and we know you're busy as well, so we're just going to give you the straight answers without the need for a corporate translator. This week we've got questions on professionalism, passive aggressiveness, and fashion.
Jumping straight into it. So if we had someone DM a MoMA Mere Instagram bus account, you can follow us at is by Mama Maya and jump into our dms anytime. We're always stalking everyone on there. And we got this DM from Sarah. She says, Hi, I'm in my twenties and work in a team of all different ages. My boss is considerably older than me and I get the
feeling he's dismissing me because of my age. How can I be taken more seriously by my boss as a professional colleague, not treated like a work experience in turn. So I haven't really experienced this myself, but it's kind of common where there's always like a big age gap
sometimes when it comes to employee and employer. And I've actually had a friend who has the opposite experience where he's in his thirties and his boss is twenty two, And I think there's like a weird kind of dynamic of like you being old and having more life experience and then having to be managed by someone who probably doesn't have that much experience as you have. But I do think it's like, similar to Sarah, like a big age gap. There always is something weird about that.
So now in an era where we've got five generations in a single workforce, which is the first time we've ever had that, so kind of crazy to Sarah's creestion. And I really love this question.
I love it.
You know she's even thinking about how can I be taken more seriously? It's hard to know without the details of why she thinks her boss isn't taking her seriously. You know, it's hard to know if she's actually doing anything wrong. It could be sort of a perception issue on his side. But there are some things you can do to start to elevate your perception as being more senior in people's minds. And so the first thing I'll love to think about is make sure you're not undermining yourself.
Make sure you're not kind of having these I call them own goals. So there's a few things that we do sometimes that can make us come across as more junior, and you just want to make sure you're not doing those things. So things like getting sucked into complaining or office gossip, that's kind of a dead giveaway that you are junior. So just make sure you're not doing that. Don't be unreliable, so like tell people what you're going to do, do it, and then tell them that you
did it. If you're consistently sort of just delivering on your core job, people are going to take you seriously.
They will.
And also, just don't write long emails. I think another dead giveaway that your junior is just like writing really long emails. So so no my own goals. And then there's just a couple of simple things that you can start to do to elevate yourself. So again, I think it sounds a bit like her boss has a problem. But some things that Zarah you might want to think about is, you know, start thinking about what the leaders think about. So what are the big things the company
is working on? What are the big problems? Even asking your boss, like what's going on for you right now? What are some of the challenging things for you? And then start to think about how your work can help with those problems. So even asks them, you know, how can what I'm doing in my current role actually help on some of those bigger things, and just like start to elevate yourself and then get comfortable sharing your opinions
as well. I think a lot of the chat that we get into when we're more junior is we think, well, you know, I'm just the person who's answering the customer service emails, Like my job isn't that important? Your job is actually so important because you have a ton of knowledge and information that people at a senior level don't have.
So say, for example, you're the person who's answering the customer service emails, he might say you know, my initial point of view is we should do this because I've read one hundred customer complaint emails recently and I'm seeing this trend. I think we should do this because of that reason. I'm interested to hear her you're thinking about it, So just like, stop putting opinions out there, and that's going to start to elevate you as being more senior and to get taken more seriously.
That is so good. Oh my god, that's so helpful. And then at the end of the day, if you do all of that and it still doesn't work, then he's just a.
Bit of a dick exactly.
So so we got this other DM and it's something that I feel personally attacked by because it's so relatable. Someone named Alex sent us this and she asked, is it okay to see see someone's boss into a thread if you're trying to escalate a task or problem personally. No, It's happened to me so many times where I've been asked to do something by email and it's like my manager CECED, my manager's manager CEC, like three of my colleagues are CC and I'm like, surely this is.
Too much Okay.
This is like the work equivalent of saying I'm telling mom. So the moment you see see someone boss into a thread, you're saying to that person, I don't trust you to handle this, and your relationship with that person is as good as done. So like, maybe this person's not important to you, maybe it's like an external partner or just like someone you don't really care about. Fine, but if the person that you're emailing with is important to you, do not see see the boss.
Into the thread.
I think it's like an instant reputation killer, and your relationship with that person is done. If you need to, you can take that communication and show it to your boss and kind of explain like I'm having this problem, or you can show it to someone else internally, but don't just start see seeing people on their side their boss into the thread. Another thing to think about is you don't know what kind of relationship they have with
their manager. And I've had people do it to me right where they see see my manager and they don't know that I'm very close with my manager. My manager brings it straight to me and is like check this out, Like why is this person doing this too? How can I help you, and they're just like supporting me in that situation.
So yeah, I do it.
And then what would you do if you keep getting someone emailing you with your manager c seed and you're not that close with your manager. Is it something that you just have to get on with Would you talk to your manager about it and be like, I don't know why she keeps leaping me into these emails.
I'm a massive fan of if the problem is with the other person, I always think it's best to try and solve the problem with that person first.
So I just love leveling.
With people, Like I don't know who this person is, if they working in the company or they're outside the company, but like, just level with people, Try and have a conversation with them, try and call them on the phone, or like go over to their desk if they're in your office and just like have a chat, like, Hey, can we talk about how we work together?
Be human? And yeah, just level with them.
Okay, good writing that down right now. So after break, we are breaking down probably the most serious conversation we've had on this podcast.
M how much thought do you put into what you were to work every day?
Oh?
I know that, Like the fashion team at work are going to be so mad at this answer, But it's honestly, like five minutes. We're very casual at mum and man. It's very much like where what you want. But I have noticed that since I've been working more closely with men in the office, I have been more weary about what I choose to wear. I think that's something I've
internalized in swet. I used to like go quite bra less at work, and sometimes when it's cold and the air cons are blasting, you do see the shape of a nipple sometimes, sue me, Okay, sue me. And then I realized that after a while, and I started to like progress in my career, and I've been going to like these really big sea your meetings with seeing your people, not just men, but women as well. I'm like, maybe I shouldn't be showing them my nipples, Like maybe I
shouldn't be my first interaction with these people. And then since then, I feel like I've subdued my wardrobe quite a lot.
This is such a valid point. Yeah, I really want to unpack this with you. I think this is very important. So the reason I ask about fashion is that our final question today comes from Bree, and she wants to know if it's okay to wear crocs to the office.
And absolutely not. I ran to that we're done, We're done. Thanks for listening to the podcast. I do not want to see a crop in my line of vision.
Wow, I was gonna say, yeah, okay, maybe this is our first disagreement.
M I'm into this.
I will just say, just to give some more detail around Bree's situation, we don't really know what kind of office she works in, but let's say it's sort of a standard office vibe, maybe a bit like the.
Mum and Mere office. So, M, explain your answer. Why is it a hard.
No for me? I just think they're the most ugly shoe I've ever seen in my entire life. And you know, when you're having a bad work day, like you come into work it's a Monday, you're like, oh, I'm not really over the weekend. I wish I could have one more day off, and then you see a croc and it just makes everything ten times worse and you're already feeling it's just like you're setting everyone else. It's not just about you, you're setting everyone else up for a
really bad day. Obviously, I'm like joking, like, you can wear what you want, Like I feel like I just talked about my nipples. Surely that's like ten times worse and wearing a croc.
Wait wait, wait, wait wait?
What if the crocs have cool little gibbits and you're wearing them with socks?
Ah, if they look cool, I don't mind, But are they gonna be noisy? Like do I have to look at your croc? Cluss hear your croc? Because that's like a whole other level.
Okay, so you hate crocs, m but the same kind of level of casual.
What about songs in the office?
Oh, songs in the office? I mean you get really nice like designer ones now, like quite fancy ones. So I wouldn't mind those, But I don't know how the honors do we need those? Like I'm not going to the beach or in the office.
I don't know.
Maybe I'm just like a big fan of like don't keep your dogs out, like close shoes, closed shoes only. But yeah, I think it's along the similar vein. Like I was mentioning before about things that you are comfortable in that you want to wear to the office, because like I guess you want to be your most comfortable self, but you're actually not really sure if people who just not vibe that.
Yeah, I mean there is a like semi serious aside to this in that when you're going to the office, it's not like you're just in your living room at home, and you actually, you know, you're part of a team of people who all want to feel comfortable in that environment as well. So if this is a genuine question from three yes sus the vibes, look at the culture
that your company has. You know, it's totally appropriate to ask your manager or someone else in the company if it's okay to wear crocs, like it's totally fine.
To do that, or what the dress code is.
I think it leads into the kind of wardrobe question that I have a lot is like is this two see through?
Or is this actually pajamas? And I find myself asking that all the time.
So I do think it kind of is hard to kind of know where the line is.
So back to like my nipple dilemma, I feel like the whole reason why I like stopped kind of dressing like that was only internalized, Like no one ever told me that you shouldn't be wearing that top or anything like that. It was more like a personal preference of mine because of I guess the workplace that we work in. But I do know from friend who work in more like corporate roles that there is kind of like an
unspoken attire that you have to abide by. And I think back, I'm going to say back in the day, but like I reckon, when I was probably born, like around the nineties and stuff, it was still very much like heel, skirt, blouse, blazer, And even though that's not really spoken about or like pushed formally anymore, I feel like a lot of them still dress that way. Is that like still a thing that's happening.
Yeah, I mean you have to think about the way you dress is part of your personal brand, and when you're meeting people, one of the ways that they form an impression of you quite quickly is based on what you're wearing. If you are someone who is going out and meeting clients, you're actually representing your company in a way. What you're wearing sort of is part of the company's brand too. So yeah, I think it's different for every company.
Like at Google, I could wear whatever I wanted and I loved it, I got to experiment, and I yeah, I loved just like wearing something that looked like pajamas to work every day and like lots of bright colors and stuff. But I do know that the people who I work in marketing, right, I know that people who worked in the sales team, who were going out and meeting clients, they did dress a little bit differently, and
they probably thought about it in a different way. It wasn't just about them, it was also about how they're representing the company. So I just think, yeah, it's like sus the vibes that your company ask the question and think about how it's making you show up and how it's making the company show up as well.
That's a good point. And do you have like an experience of where someone didn't really get the dress code at work?
Yeah, it's funny, like I know it kind of chatting about crocs and thongs and stuff and it's all sort of fun. But I remember talking to a senior leader at Google who actually worked in Silicon Valley in the head office, and he told me this story that the hardest conversation he's ever had to have at work was actually telling a gen Z employee that what she was wearing to the office was inappropriate, and he had to have several conversations with HR, coaching sessions with HR to
coach him on how to have the conversation. And so it wasn't coming from him. Other people had been coming to him as her manager and saying this is something that we think.
You need to talk to her about. He had to have the conversation.
So, you know, again, like it comes down to how people are perceiving you. It is something you need to think about. But I'm still for the record, pro Crocs in the office.
Okay, pro Crocs.
You know what do it?
I just know I'm going to go back into the office. Everyone's going to be wearing Crocs. I just know it's Crocs.
Are a bit over now. I think we've moved on to other brands. They're two may strength.
But thank you for helping us clear the Biez inbox.
If you've got a work question, send it away.
You'll find a link to submit your questions in the show notes.
Also, if you missed it earlier this week, Mish and so, if you taught us a very valuable lesson on why it's not only okay but kind of essential to be part personality higher in your office, which is great news for me. We'll be back in the biz inbox next week.
Bye bye, Mamma.
Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on