Why Jack Mallers Turned Down Life Changing Money for Strike and Instead Headed to Bitcoin Beach

Jack Mallers  
If I had no life plan or goals or appreciation for building a company changing the world, I also didn't have the confidence in myself that I was capable of anything of substance. This was like, sometimes you will get lucky. That's how I was raised. And I was convinced otherwise that you know, Bitcoin's gonna change the world and that the day I worked for someone else would be a sad day and some of my closest friends a guy in that room, you know, look me in the eye and say, You can't do this if not for you for all of us. I didn't and that next day, I bought my flight to El Salvador.

Mike Peterson  
Jack we got you back in El Salvador.

Jack Mallers  
What's going on, brother? 

Mike Peterson  
Hey, but no hoodie.

Jack Mallers  
No hoodie. It's too warm. I'm in Chicago. My skin doesn't get the sun very often. So I gotta take advantage.

Mike Peterson  
I've never ever seen you without a hoodie.

Jack Mallers  
It's fair. I got hair and I got arms. Proof.

Mike Peterson  
Nice. Nice. What do you think? Coming back after? How long has it been?

Jack Mallers  
Since- 

Mike Peterson  
Two years? 

Jack Mallers  
Since the- no longer. Since, whenever, the whole legal tender. 

Mike Peterson  
So was that almost three or three years? Okay. Yeah. So what was it like coming back and seeing all the changes that have happened here in El Salvador? 

Jack Mallers  
The craziest thing ever? I my best answer. And what I've been telling everyone is the airport. So Dylan, who said, Dylan, my chief of staff, my best friend. He's one of the earliest Strike employees. He was here with me initially, as you probably remember. And he's in the other room. He's here with me now. And when we got off the airplane, we I mean, once you get off an airplane, want to get to your hotel and pack your stuff lay down, take a nap. We spent time just wandering around the airport. It was the craziest thing. We went in the bathrooms. We tried the sinks, we're analyzing the ceiling. It's nicer than O'Hare, which is Chicago's airport, which is also the heart of the Midwest, which is everyone has their transfers at O'Hare. So that was very telling for us. We couldn't believe it were jaw on the floor. And ever since that was a foreshadowing of the whole thing is I'm in awe a little of just how fast things have moved, which really has allowed me to juxtapose that versus the media. Right? Because I was here obviously, and, and everything happened, how it happened. And then I was a part of the media and their perception of it and depiction of it. And then coming back and saying you guys have no idea how fast this is moving. I mean, even the airport is modern and better than the biggest airport in America.

Mike Peterson  
And they've streamlined everything. Did you have to pay a fee when you came in?

Jack Mallers  
I did. Yeah. Okay.

Mike Peterson  
Were you able to pay in Bitcoin? Did they have that?

Jack Mallers  
The guy just didn't understand me. Okay, I'm confident I could have used just knowing less but. But no, the whole thing was unbelievable. I was shocked. I really- 

Mike Peterson  
They streamline that it used to be like it took forever to get through that part. And then just to pick up your bags. Now I feel like when I come through, I'm out in like five minutes sometimes. 

Jack Mallers  
100% I mean, it was a Third World airport. Yeah. There's no doubt about that. I mean, I've gone to what's maybe something Bitcoiners can relate to the what about the African Bitcoin Conference in Ghana. I mean, that's just a airport. That isn't great. And that's what it was when I got here initially. And this was like I said, it was better than Chicago, which is the most popular most used airport in the United States of America. So it's blown my mind. I mean, San Salvador. Unbelievable. Zonte I couldn't believe it. I mean, Dylan and I were driving up here. And someone had mentioned, you know, they paved the roads in Zonte. And it was- 

Mike Peterson  
Not just paved, like some of that some sections are paved, but other sections have full nice pavers, bike lanes everywhere.

Jack Mallers  
I don't know how to describe for people and Dylan and I's emotions were split, you know, part of us were like, just so in awe and happy and motivated and confident and inspired by I mean, what when would I have been able to witness change in progressive progress like this being born and raised in Chicago? Never in fact, Chicago has probably gone in the wrong direction, right? So I just couldn't believe it. But there was part of me that was like, man, it was so charming in Zonte to go outside my hotel room and you know, play like hopscotch to get to your place right and and it's just I couldn't believe it. I really I don't know, I'm a little lost for words, and it's genuine. And it does. It does make me understand the delta between the media, and what's happening, which we've always known as Bitcoiners. And I mean, you and I use, particularly but me in the role I've played and the relationship I have. I've always known the Delta but actually being here and realizing like, oh, man, it actually is a lot of work to build a new airport. You're right. So anyway, it's it's mind blowing. It really is.

Mike Peterson  
Was the when you were here, was the bypass open yet that that to get to the city? I don't think so. Yeah. So I think that's new too. So now, you have this direct shot to the cities is beautiful, you know, come down from San Salvador, you have this beautiful ocean view. Now, at night, they have these LED lights that you kind of go through that are all the Salvadoran flag. It's just Yeah, it's the sense of pride and growth in the city. And everywhere you go, there's construction sites. Yep. It's, I tell people that 10 years ago, the biggest issue was, was was employment. You know, most people were unemployed. And you know, they get a little bit of work. And the month it was, you know, a good month, but now, the complaint I hear from businesses is there's not enough workers like there's, there's so many projects going on that, you know, all the good workers are gone, which is a great problem to have, you know, wages are going up. Life is getting better for people. And of course, yeah, it's not all overnight. It's not like there's not problems here still, and not poverty, but the, the see the amount of change that has happened in just a few years. It really is mind blowing.

Jack Mallers  
Yeah, it's it's proof of work. Because seeing a new airport, which is different than a road paved, it's like holy shit, you know, actually doing the work takes time and like real proof of work. And that's what you realize actually being here is you're like, my goodness, this country is transforming itself and inspiring everyone else. I mean, it always felt like they wanted to be the Singapore of Latin America. I love that analogy. It felt that way. Like I've told on other podcasts, meeting with the government at the time, you know, we'd spend meetings just listening to music, right? They're just so inspired, that great taste, it was tough on crime, clean, innovative, technologically, forward, hard money. And so the Bitcoin part was always just a slice, which Bitcoiners don't care to listen to. And maybe some of them don't value, but that's the truth. And being here is like, wow, proof of work to really change society, cities, countries, and realizing Well, shit, if I had to rebuild an airport, it wouldn't take me a week either. So that was what I realized is in the detail. So no, it's, it's remarkable. It is gotta be the craziest story of our time when it comes to sovereign nations. Yeah.

Mike Peterson  
I think that like you're saying that the Bitcoin is just a slice. That's, that's the hardest part to really be able to articulate to people because the Bitcoin aspect is synergistic. It did put El Salvador on the world map it has brought in investment. It's brought in, you know, tourism and all these things, but it's not the only piece. And so people want to say like, oh, no, it's because they cut down on crime. That's it, or this is it. I'm like, No, it's all part of the same package of going forward, embracing technology and bettering the lives of the people, EPL, any of those elements out, it's not going to have the magic formula that it has now.

Jack Mallers  
It was always that way, though, when I like the even the very first meetings, it was how building architecture influences people and societies energy it was, I spent a lot of time listening to music with the President's brother. And then at the very end, it would say, and by the way, you know, obviously hard money benefits the populace. And what do you think about things like legal tender, that was like the last five minutes, and I was like, Well, I'm not a musician. I can't play instruments. I don't know anything about building architecture, but I can maybe help out with that part. But it really was just a piece of the vision that they had. And by the way, you can't ever accomplish anything of this scale in size without clear vision, and conviction. And so there's no such thing as an accident at this scale in this size over this amount of time. So I hope at this point, people appreciate that about the President as well as really remarkable vision. Especially where the country was. So yeah.

Mike Peterson  
Well, I'm having that low time preference to have like wanting to get things done, but also realizing that great things do take time and work and so, you know, most politicians would have backed away from Bitcoin when it started to go down in price after adopting it, but this administration instead just doubled down. And because they got the long run pitchers like everything else that they're doing, they realize, yes, we're gonna get a lot of criticism upfront, you know, the crack down on the gang, same thing, but they realize the long term goal of what they're going to achieve for the people makes it worth taking the flak during that time. Yeah. So they just let it roll off their back and keep focused on building and you mentioned the airport there, actually. So they, they just finished that whole new wing to it. And now they're adding another section to it, because they have all these European and Middle Eastern carriers that want to start servicing El Salvador. So they're expanding that again. It's amazing to see that says like this continual progress.

Jack Mallers  
Yeah, well, I mean, winners are built with conviction with vision with low time preference, I mean, value is built compounding over time. And so I like I said, born in Chicago, I've never been able to witness that in another country. Right? How the hell would I? Yeah. And so it's just really cool. To be able to see, and I'm happy for the people. I'm happy for Bitcoin beach. Like not only just Zonte, but all the people that I was able to meet and build relationships with back in the day, just like yeah. It is gotta be one of the cooler stories of our time for sure. When it comes to sovereign nation and inspiring and changing the world. Really, the coolest story in the world right now.

Mike Peterson  
It really is. Yeah. So I'm curious to, to hear how things are going at Strike with I know, El Salvador was the second country you guys launched? 

Jack Mallers  
Yeah. Crazy story of how I got here. But yeah, that was it was US and El Salvador and US barely, we didn't have all of our licenses and everything we have today. So it was like- 

Mike Peterson  
Well tell us the crazy story. So 

Jack Mallers  
Well, I, I it was February of 2021. I got a big acquisition offer for Strike. And you know, I think people know me at this point, as you know, very passionate, convicted, die on the hill energy. But at the time, I was very young, I think I was 24. And someone offered a lot of money. And I signed the term sheet. I actually don't know if I've ever told the story publicly, but it's relevant to my trip to El Salvador, I was gonna I was I was ready. I was like, this is enough money for me to work on Bitcoin forever stack SATs and I had no life plan or goals or appreciation for building a company changing the world, I also didn't have the confidence in myself, that I was capable of anything of substance. This was like, sometimes you'll get lucky. That's how I was raised. And I was convinced otherwise that you know, bitcoins gonna change the world and that the day I worked for someone else would be a sad day. And some of my closest friends, a guy in that room, you know, looked me in the eye and said, You can't do this, if not for you for all of us. I didn't and that next day, I bought my flight to El Salvador. Really? Yeah. So I almost sold Strike. And there are moments in my career, where, you know, and I'm sure everyone else's life journey where there's people that believe in you more than you believe in yourself. And those are pivotal. And that's, you're rewarded for the company that you keep right in the people you surround yourself with. And so those were one of those moments for me, where since then, it's like, I'm gonna be a CEO of this thing forever. And bitcoins gonna change the world. And I'm fully capable of being part of this story with all these Bitcoiners. And we're gonna win. And that energy was a lot of that was born out of that moment. And the very first thing I did was come here, of course, not knowing anything that was going to happen. But it was to your point is, we needed to pick another market to launch our products in because we wanted to do cross border payments. And I was aware of you guys, and the fact that there would be people, other humans that wouldn't think I was out of my mind. So I DMed you on Twitter, and we came, but we almost didn't I almost I almost said sigh Inara. And I mean, I would have worked on Bitcoin, but who knows where I would be? Yeah. 

Mike Peterson  
So have there been any? Any time since then? I know, as running a business. There's lots of ups and downs. Have there been any times where you've been like, yeah, maybe I should have just taken that. 

Jack Mallers  
I've never regretted that only because what happened shortly after, right? I wouldn't change anything. And I, I had sacrificed myself for. And I've said that right? In order for things to go how they've gone. But no, I mean, yeah, you've run a business and run many businesses. Yeah, it's been challenging. I mean, you really, what's the Steve Jobs quote is a, you know, in the face of death, is when you really understand and appreciate the values of life. Like all the things that don't really matter, matter. go by the wayside. And that's, you know, Being an entrepreneur and phase you learn a lot about yourself a lot about what you stand for. And it's very painful. But it's those type of moments, everything comes to bear. And they're, they're hard. But in hindsight, they're valuable. And there are lessons that the way I like to think about it is, how expensive with those lessons be to acquire, if I didn't acquire them that way, right? In hindsight, they were cheap, because they were, whether it'd be embarrassing, or shameful or regretful, but I didn't have to pay 10,000 Bitcoin for them. Right. And they're valuable. So. But yeah, it's been a journey, and to say the least, and the scary, yet exciting thing is that it's still in the beginning. We'll see where it goes.

Mike Peterson  
So how is I know when when you guys were down here, and we we talked at that time, and you guys had this vision for kind of, hey, we're going to take over the world with Strike and and then since then have subsequently rolled out in all these countries, and obviously the logistics and it's it's one thing to say it, it's another thing to navigate the all the legal and technical and cultural issues along the way. So how has your vision for strike changed since we would have those conversations? And and how do you see going in the countries versus partnering with people that are already there? Because I know you guys have some partnerships with like Vietnam, and I think yellow card in Africa. So what is kind of the strategy of Strike, now? Where do you what role do you see you guys playing? 

Jack Mallers  
Yeah, I mean, I, part of the founding of striking the initial vision is, lightning is this open value transfer protocol for the world and this interoperability network for the world? And if I can buy Bitcoin in one country and sell Bitcoin in another country, why can't I reinvent cross border payments with this lightning thing, and that's still very much a part of who we are. But what I came to admit is, I was going to take longer than I thought, and I wasn't old enough, enough experience all sorts of terrible mistakes I made to assume that that was something that was going to happen faster than I thought. And so that business for us is growing, but it's a lot smaller than what's become just one of the Bitcoin companies of the world. Like we're, we like to try and compete at being the best at Bitcoin in the world. We achieve that just by focusing only on Bitcoin. I think, if I told Brian Armstrong, hey, we're better at Bitcoin. And you guys, I don't think you'd be offended by that or disagree, because he doesn't care much about it. Yeah. Like we built fancy batching fee estimation software for free on chain withdrawals for our customers, and they built base, right. And so that's where, as far as the business and our growth, I mean, strikes now growing profitable business, which was far from when I came here the first time, right, and so that is us realizing we've grown into a lifestyle brand. And with the technology, the licenses the product, we do Bitcoin really, really well. So if you're interested in high quality, Bitcoin, financial services, you're probably a customer of ours. So that I guess, I don't know, if people want to call that a pivot. It's still very much under the umbrella. And we still do that. I mean, the business of cross border payments growing, but it's certainly a fraction of, you know, we saw a lot of Bitcoin.

Mike Peterson  
So that's become a big, that's a big part of the profit driver.

Jack Mallers  
That's our business. Yeah, biggest business line by far. In fact, one of the things I have to figure out is, you know, you all get introduced on TV is like this payments app, which we are but we are we sell a lot of Bitcoin and and majority of our business, like a vast majority is from that. And I think it goes to show just where the different use cases of Bitcoin are in their development and adoption throughout the world. It's not a problem at all. Yeah, um, we were early to something that I think, I mean, how many startups have been founded? You've got David Marcus, I think we were very early, which I'm proud of. But I certainly, you know, in hindsight, should have been selling Bitcoin from day one. That's,

Mike Peterson  
I mean, that's like any business, you get in good. And then you realize you have to pivot. Of course, hardly any business actually winds up with the business model that they expected that. 

Jack Mallers  
Yeah, totally. And I mean, everything. I mean, I also, I think there was a point in my career to when the El Salvador stuff happen, I think, you know, just to run through the timeline that I had we, we raced the IndyCar. So Strike was going to get acquired. It didn't. I said, I'm gonna be the CEO forever. I come in El Salvador. What happens happens in the middle of that, we raised the Bitcoin car at the Indy 500. I remember that from that. I went to Miami and we made the legal tender announcement from that we partnered with Twitter and integrated lightning into like the first public company, and in that experience, I was so young, and I think there are a lot of people that you know, bad people that came around and I didn't really have have the foresight and the knowledge to understand anything to be honest. And from there, there's just a lot of bad stuff. I was just bad venture cat like the venture capital, like all the all the bad scary things that people foresee about VCs in Silicon Valley, like I became a victim to a lot of that stuff. And so it also really birthed this energy that I have now as a CEO is, you know, we want to be profitable, we stack SATs, with our cash flows, we hold an inset like, way more than 50% of our Treasury in Bitcoin and we run the business very lean, we listen to customers only, we only build things we know our customers love and are going to use that that like, flipped entirely. And I'm hopeful that there's been some proof of work from me and the business and, you know, shipping what we say and achieving these things where, you know, our customers in the community can, can realize that, but that was a real, real change for me. 

Mike Peterson  
It's hard when somebody throws all this money at you. And there's all these expectations. And you think, Oh, we got to do this, this and this.

Jack Mallers  
And yeah, and I yeah, there. I mean, there are people that wanted to be around me and Strike for the wrong reasons. And that just got muddied the waters. So, but as I said, In the beginning, in hindsight, I couldn't be more thankful for that, because I had to learn those things. At some point, it's the same, I like to say, you know, the deficits have to be realized, right, you can't just roll them over forever. So at some point, I had to learn a lot. And I still do, but and when I look back, I'm like, man, you know, really wasn't that expensive to learn what I learned? Imagine what I'd have to pay if I had to learn it a different way. So in horror, even now, it's better to learn it early on 100%. So in hindsight, thankful, but yeah, now I we like to think of ourselves as Bitcoin financial services business. And we try and be one of the best in the world and one of the most available so on the topic of the partnerships in such our biggest markets, United States, not only because we've been at it the longest, but it's the wealthiest, right, and I think it's no secret that, you know, if bitcoins being acquired at whatever X amount of billions a day, you know, GDP and wealth is a good indicator of the percentage market share. And so the US is a big market for us. And through that, we realized Europe and the UK. So we'll launch the UK, we're hopeful in June. So we're recording this. It's not June 1, yet, May 30. And so hopefully, less than a month we turn on the UK in those markets, we went out and did everything the right way ourselves. Were that we know that those are big markets, we wouldn't be able to scale on partners. And so we're one of the most licensed companies in America, I think, more money transmitter licenses and Coinbase, actually, and Europe is on us and UK. And then market like Africa and a lot of the stuff throughout Latin America. We've partnered it's both because the the main reason is, it's difficult for us to do it on our own. 

Mike Peterson  
Yeah. Well, it's much better to have somebody with local knowledge that understands the needs of local market.

Jack Mallers  
Yeah. And will do all the hard work of the banking infrastructure isn't there? There isn't a lot of like API, there's so much middleware infrastructure for a company like us to say, hey, we're in Europe now. And it's we've been hard. It's been hard for us to find it. Like, what's crazy if you look at our registration, so one of my favorite stats ever is my KYC. bill every month. So every month I onboard a bunch of customers, I got paid a build a KYC AM, which is ridiculously different, sir. Outside of America, what two countries do you think are contribute to my KYC Bill the most countries? So you do go in Europe, we're in almost 100 markets, actually. 100. Exactly. Now, what countries would you say? 

Mike Peterson  
El, Salvador? 

Jack Mallers  
No, I wish it's Argentina and Nigeria. 

Mike Peterson  
Really? 

Jack Mallers  
Yeah. And so we get a ton of users from those markets. And we've tried so hard, like you know what they would want even more if they could connect their bank account and Buy Bitcoin from us because the product is just stable coin and Bitcoin and lightning and we have a phenomenal wallet free on chain withdrawals, lightning address all the great features. It's custodial, which if you're okay with that the user experience is phenomenal. But I can't find on off ramps, I can't figure it out. And so the partnerships in Africa is trying to connect with these customers has just been difficult. And Latin America has been even more so we've directly invested in the markets that we know I mean, the growth there for us is phenomenal. And the business line is super profitable. And then for the other markets is still going to be a journey for us which I think it is for everyone else is how we can build the infrastructure to make app and so partnerships is our best first step. I guess. 

Mike Peterson  
We were on a call we do these these weekly calls with a different force. We're kind of helping raise funds and and walk alongside All these different circular Bitcoin economies around the world. So once a week we do a call with one of them to kind of spotlight them and do Twitter spaces. And so the one was was in Zambia right pocket that we did last week. So Victoria Bitcoin Victoria Falls. And so we were asking them, hey, what wallets do you guys use? And I mean, blink was one of them. I think while it's Toshi, and they're like, Strike is great, because they said that was the only one that allowed them to interact with mobile money in Zambia. And for them, they said, that's more important, actually, than the banking system, because the majority of people don't have bank accounts. But everybody uses mobile money. Yeah. And so they I was, I was like, wow, I didn't know you guys were in Zambia, and had kind of navigated that to integrate with the mobile money system there. So so that was for me, that was that was very encouraging to hear. 

Jack Mallers  
Yeah, I mean, um, a few things on that we, I want to get the product in as many places as we can. One, obviously, you know, we have an interest in that as a company, but I think we are really good at Bitcoin, like when people complain about the on chain fees, when we offer free on chain, because we do batching and fee estimation and all the things that any reasonable Bitcoin service should do. But Binance and the services haven't found a way to achieve that, you know, we want our products available, because I think it represents Bitcoin, I would rather customers use my software than Brian Armstrong's. Yeah. And, again, I don't know if that's offensive to him or not, but it just goes to our focus and values and ethics and stuff. So we try and get the product in as many places as possible. And then as a business, what we've realized is both the best way to monetize these products and the best way to get more customers because it's the value is interfacing with the legacy world is people need to either get in or get out, use it for cross border payments, use it to live, and it's a good business line. And so for Africa, we've tried to get that done. But our our baseline like in Argentina, we don't monetize our product at all that KYC bills just on the house, because we can't figure out that last piece, but I'm just proud that they have a lightning wallet and when ordinals clogged the chain, like all bacha for free and I think it matters that there's companies out there that are doing Bitcoin the right way. It's been a long time coming. One of the reasons I started Strike really, I didn't have faith in Coinbase.

Mike Peterson  
Now it's, it's crucial because when people you do all this work to onboard them, and then when they have these fee spikes, they don't understand even why and then you try to explain to them because some idiot wants to put some, you know, monkey JPEG on they're like, oh, like, Yeah, you told me this was better money. And so it's crucial that there are tools like Strike there to kind of go around. So 

Jack Mallers  
Yeah, yeah, so that's he that's been the goal is just get our and I mean, bitcoins global money, right. And so it's a natural advantage that we have as a financial company is that we can launch our products in another market, and we have a target audience. It's also insane. The network effects and the economies of scale that come with being a Bitcoin company, you know, Uber, could have maybe convinced everyone in America to not use cabs and use some random person's car, but then replicating that in another market is a lot of marketing, to just convince people, Hey, don't get in a taxi, getting this random dudes car. And we don't have that challenge, either. You know, because Bitcoin is a marketing beast on its own, and it carries its own brand, and that we can launch in a market and get users immediately. So it's been fun. It's been hard. I mean, there's always been rules. So a lot of the US and you know, Phoenix leaving America, there's always been rules, they were never really enforced. Yeah, the post FTX world is obvious. And and so it's been difficult because we've always wanted to do things the right way. For the mere reason that I want this company to exist forever, I want to be the CEO forever, I want to pass it to my kids or whoever, right. And so we had to follow the rules. So that's just taken time and energy and all sorts of nonsense, but we're getting there.

Mike Peterson  
One of my funniest and I'm assuming this is when a cheap lesson you learned along the way as far as customer acquisition. But I tell people when when you guys came here, and you were doing the incentive of was at $10 I think that you were I think was five, ten whatever, five or 10. And then I think you got, I think it was like for the person who signed up and there was a referral fee to the person that Yeah, and I remember telling you guys oh, that might be a little high and you and you got I think like 30 times as many people as you thought you were gonna get. 

Jack Mallers  
Yeah, that was that was the first time as a business we realized like a referral fee of 10 cents and a smaller emerging market versus a referral fee of $10 and America and New York City or whatever. 

Mike Peterson  
People were quitting their jobs and going door to door signing people up for Strike because they could make you know, $100 in the day when their their wage at that time was $10. 

Jack Mallers  
It was so fascinating too because, everyone was forced to figure out how to do on and off ramps at the time because the money on Strike was only as valuable as you can get physical cash. And so there were people that were like, manually, like manual Strike Western Union type people like here, you can send me I'll give you cash and there are people make making Strike markets. And so yeah, I mean learning experiences.

Mike Peterson  
I remember I got a call from Bit refill. And they're like, We think we're being hacked. But we don't know how, because but these people are buying all of these products. This, these free Fire gift certificates is the best on it's got to be a hack. And I'm like, No, that's all the kids in El Salvador that have been able to buy the cloak or the armor for their little video game. They now have access. They don't have credit cards, so they can never do it before. But now with Bitcoin, they can buy that. And yeah, he's like, it's the most we've ever sold of any product anywhere in a day. And it's all come from El Salvador. 

Jack Mallers  
It was actually a lot of these learnings where we put bit refill bit refills in the strike app now. And that's particularly popular in a lot of these markets, because it is an actual off ramp. That's a lot of the product market and

Mike Peterson  
It helps them they don't have another option. Like they don't have a credit card. They've been like kept out walled out of a lot of these things. And now they have access to it.

Jack Mallers  
Yeah. 100% Yeah, the gift card bit refill models. Genius. Again, in hindsight, I didn't come up with it, unfortunately. But it's great. And it was through these learnings where we were able to watch users get capital in the door. And then we're just like, really a ton of money. You're into the bit refill lightning. Yeah. Or like, wow, I partner with these guys optimize the user experience a little bit. So yeah, yeah. 

Mike Peterson  
My favorite was there was a carwash and La Libertad. And they started advertising free car washes. And when the people would come in, they're like, yeah, all you have to do to your carwash to sign up for Strike. Yeah. And and they were getting the referral fee off that. So they're making like twice as much as they were on a normal carwash. And again, I love obviously you can't eat, you know, those things aren't sustainable, and you have to make adjustments. But I loved seeing like the Salvadoran innovation in them like, Oh, hey, we can do this. And we can it was it was fascinating to watch, like, hey, these people are very sharp and business savvy. They just haven't had the opportunity. Yeah, now we're seeing that explode on a much bigger level. Yeah. And

Jack Mallers  
as it was also just like having a Venture Capital American business come and try and figure out this market. I don't know. I'm sure it happened before, but I'm not aware of it. Right. Like, we didn't have a playbook when we came here. We had no idea what was going on. So that was also cool to be a part of, but I'm sure cool for Salvadorans. Yeah, oh, there's a ton of VC money that's here to make our lives better somehow. And we're going to collect referrals and we're going to test their stuff and we're gonna get bonuses and we're gonna buy pizza and we're gonna go to meetups. So that was that was also fun and interesting. And I feel like now I'm sure all sorts of Bitcoin companies and everyone's you know, lobbying to get these customers and hire these people. But back in the day, it was new. I mean, it was you guys you guys were were here for a while but I mean, as far as venture backed American businesses I'm sure we were one of the first

Mike Peterson  
No you guys were definitely the I think that refill was here. Yeah, they had somebody here but but other than that, yeah, there was hardly anybody out there so now it's it's fun scene that I don't know if you've heard about Bitcoin, Berlin but there's this nother town in the coffee country that you know is onboarding all these businesses replicating I mean obviously there's businesses now throughout El Salvador you can buy the major grocery store you know, you can pretty much live on a Bitcoin standard easy here that's not saying that all businesses take Bitcoin but all the you know the salons the major department store the super select those the major supermarket, the price Mar which is like Costco Yeah, and and they actually work now. Yeah, easily, like all these different companies have come in and are providing services in different places including strike. Yeah, so it's, it's, yeah, it used to be kind of stressful because you're like, Oh, is it gonna actually work now? Like you use Bitcoin because it's the easiest. 

Jack Mallers  
Yeah. I met with the government today earlier, and we reminisced over, you know, I was very nervous about the timeline. And I, my opinion, and I think yours at the time, too, is you know, there's no rush. It's not gonna there's no way you integrate Bitcoin into a country in six days. So yeah, but in many ways, I think.

Mike Peterson  
I think though, for them, I think it was I think they had a sense and I think they were right, that if they put it out there, whether it's the US government or the IMF, all these powers could back channel put too much pressure. So I think there was a sense of, we just need to like get the toothpaste out of the tube and it's going to be a disaster, but then we'll clean it up later. Because otherwise I think the pressure would have been so strong on them once it was already done then it was they could ask them to walk it back, but it's hard to kind of force it but if they would have done it preemptively, I think they could have strong arm them and did not do it.

Jack Mallers  
I agree with that. And maybe in the just the momentous that they had at the time too I think on net they did everything the right way. But inevitably. 

Mike Peterson  
Yeah, it was It was messy, but I still think it was the best path. I think waiting would have been a mistake. 

Jack Mallers  
Yeah, I mean, you're emerging, you know, third world country, and you're tasked with adopting Bitcoin. And what the hell do you do? Like if I were tasked that homework assignment? I have no idea right. I think there's no perfect path. And in hindsight, it and not to say that it wasn't courageous and at times painful and grueling, but in hindsight, I mean, pretty flawless. I mean, I know the mainstream media is like, right shit about me all the time. So saying that is going to maybe get them well, no, the Chivo this that, but I mean, really, honestly. I mean, they in all the battles with the IMF, they're able to weather all that stuff, which Oh, which is great.

Mike Peterson  
The funny thing is that I tell people is like even the even the negative articles would have beautiful pictures of the beaches and El Salvador along with it. So all these people were winding up in El Salvador that because they'd read this negative article, but they're like, oh, that place looks beautiful. Yeah, I want to go check. 

Jack Mallers  
Well, that's the other part too, is the vision was always also the aesthetics was very obvious. They appreciated the natural beauty of the this, like the volcanoes, all that stuff was no accident. So yeah, I mean, the media shows up, there's beaches there surfing, and people are happy here. And appreciative. Their government clearly respects them and their time and energy and, and, yeah, then there's an article about how I'm a crybaby or something. And it's like, okay, well, like I'm glad that you guys had to post a picture of Bitcoin Beach, pays for all of its Yeah.

Mike Peterson  
No, that's I really think that they say all publicity is good publicity. I think that's been the case for El Salvador. Because all these you know, haters have like harped on and it's just made, people want to come down and see it for themselves. And then when they see it for themselves, they're like, No, wow, there's something going on here. Even 

Jack Mallers  
I'm sure you would. Yeah. What? I couldn't believe that tweetstorm amazing.

Mike Peterson  
I don't know if you know, her projections of what she say. 10x and five years, five years might be a little optimistic. Be I'm here for it. Yeah, I'd be happy to see that. I'm sure I'm, I don't want to put words in your mouth. But I'm curious. Do you sense just a different level of optimism here versus when you were here three years ago? Yeah, of course. It's palatable, huh. Yeah.

Jack Mallers  
I mean, the energy here is even I mean, to be honest, when you walk through the street, and you see some of the police too, I mean, there's like an intent intention to ensure you're safe and you can express yourself and you can be free is felt I went and walked around the block this morning. And everyone's out eating I didn't know people eat morning pupusas. I didn't know if a pupusa was breakfast food. Yeah, that is a breakfast. But everyone's out. Eating morning for pupusa wandering the streets and bike biking. And it just was not that way back. Back in when I was here last time in San Salvador. So I was having the meetings I was sitting at the Intercontinental is that the hotel? Yeah. And there was a like a festival with like, a Ferris wheel and the whole nine and I tried to go and we couldn't it was kind of like a little bit of a ghost town. Now that area was particularly bad. That hotel I don't know why I stay there. But it Yeah, the energy nurse kids running around at eight in the morning and morning pupusas before work is totally different. 

Mike Peterson  
No, just seeing people out at night used to be people wanting to get in before sunset. It was. Yeah, it's a totally. And it's crazy living here. Even though you know, a lot of times when you're living in a place. You don't notice the change as much. Because it you know, it happens over time versus people that come back. But it's happened so fast that even the people living here feel like it's that same sense. Like, wow, it's better today than it was yesterday than it was the day before. 

Jack Mallers  
Yeah. So the proof of work right? Like, I think it's very real I'm sure too I mean, I'm hesitant because I don't live here and I'm not a citizen and I can't vote here but the- seeing it all manifest and be real, I'm sure is really validating for them as well, like it only gets stronger that type of the same way that proof of work builds on itself. So the value of the work can only get stronger. Because of the fact that the government's made real on all of the vision so far. I mean, it's as real. I mean, everything is new, everything is paved, everything is fast, strong, quick. So I'm sure that means a lot to the populace as well. I would, I would assume at least.

Mike Peterson  
No, it does. And not just to the populace. But those who have left El Salvador over the last 20 years are all coming back. Yeah. And so and, you know, people say like, oh, the foreigners driving up the price of real estate. Well, actually, it's mostly Salvadorans that are coming back that have been in the US have been successful, and now want to come back and invest in their country? Yes, it's in nobody thought that that would ever happen that people choose to leave the US to come back here. But there they are. And they're bringing capital with them. 100% It's great to see. Yeah. Well, I'm curious as to what your vision is for the you know, the the next couple years, where do you see Strike? And what do you hope to see happen in the in the Bitcoin space?

Jack Mallers  
I think we're, I mean, you know, at this point, the cycles, and I think we're at the beginnings of a bull market. And so my job at Strike is to survive it and manage it and serve customers the best we can, I'm super happy of the markets were available in at the beginnings of this bull market. And I Yeah, we want to mean survive, it is an interesting term to use again, like as an entrepreneur. 

Mike Peterson  
I know, during those cycles, just KYC and people and onboarding them that, yeah, in the past, you've had these huge, horrible experiences with all across all companies. Yeah. So I'm sure that's top of mind for you that like, hey, we need to be ready for this. 

Jack Mallers  
Yes. And we want to be ready with products and market that people find valuable. And so we feel like we're at that point. And so that's our, our focus is doing right by Bitcoiners. And serving these customers giving them a place to do Bitcoin really well. We don't want people needing to go to Coinbase, like in the UK, my DMs are just full of to make this the last day I buy on Coinbase, right. And so we just want to be ready available, and doing Bitcoin, the best we can to these markets. As far as one year, two years, three years, four years, five years, we listen to customers, that's one of the other things I learned is couldn't be more valuable. And it's really the best way to build culture at a business as well. As you know, customers matter. We work for them. They don't work for us. And so we've heard you know, our customers are interested in lending, they want a loan against their Bitcoin customers are interested in different custody models with us. These are just their natural, they're more financial services on top of a new asset class. And so no promises on when we'll do that, but that's very likely Strike's future is you know, we want to do Bitcoin well, and as Bitcoiners evolve, and there's a lot of new wealth in this asset class, they're gonna want to take a loan against that. There's not new a lot of new wealth in this asset class, they're gonna want insurance, they have home insurance, they have car insurance, now they want Bitcoin insurance and so we'll explore those, but we'll put our put Bitcoiners first and do the best we can to be the best at Bitcoin. I don't know if that answers the question. 

Mike Peterson  
That that perfectly sums it up. But I think that's a good note to finish on. Yeah. I don't know if there's anything else that you want to talk about, or no extra people know about? Obviously, people follow you on Twitter.

Jack Mallers  
Yeah, I mean, Jack is my real name. So you guys can all find me on the internet. And I'm just happy to be I'm excited for the weekend. I don't know this is just cool. It's cool experience very thankful to you and Bitcoin beach, you know, reminiscing on this stuff and even in this conversation puts a lot in perspective talking about like my family it was only three years ago. A lot of it is hard like I'm a lot of this is hard to believe so yeah. Also just thankful to you guys and you for everything you've done for Bitcoin for El Salvador for Strike. So I guess also felt right to say that in this conversation.

Mike Peterson  
I appreciate that, ya know, we're, we're thankful for the role that you played and pushing things forward here and being one of the first companies to come down and for sure, I think it's, it's it. It's exciting to know that you know, El Salvador even within Strike played like a, you know, a role in helping you guys think of how you want to go forward.

Jack Mallers  
Yeah. 100%. 

Mike Peterson  
So, now you're here for an event that's going to be in the history books. I mean, yeah.

Jack Mallers  
And we're one of the only companies that has the license, which we're really excited about as well. So we continue to invest in the country where we can we employ Salvadorans. So No 100% Just a lot of gratitude, you know, going into this podcast studio, I didn't think that I would be a little like going through all of the entrepreneur journey and three years ago, I'm sitting here like remembering, sitting at Villa lumber young Jack. Yeah, was just sitting in that villa. And you would come by and sitting with my high school buddies. And yeah, just a lot of gratitude, appreciation. So thank you. And probably on behalf of a lot of Bitcoiners. Thank you. I don't know how much you get that, but appreciate

Mike Peterson  
Oh, it's just a privilege to be part of what is happening here, sir. Sure. But the Thank you, you got you can't make it three years again, before you come back. 

Jack Mallers  
Totally. I don't plan on it. I don't plan on it. I'll be back soon. 

Mike Peterson  
Well, you got a studio here that's available to you if you want to come to your podcast here at any time. So definitely make sure you get back quickly and we got to drag your dad down. Yeah. So he'll be here. Yeah, appreciate it. All right. Well, thank you, Jack. Yeah. 

Jack Mallers  
Thanks, bro. Good to see you.