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Hi, my name is Kezia. I'm a stroke survivor and a member of BIND.
And hi, I'm Carrie, a stroke survivor, and a member of BIND as well. And today we're welcoming Gregg Grossman, who has his PhD, CBLC and LBC. And, you know, we like to say all those letters like we know what they are. I know what the first one is, but, um, and he's also the President of Beyond Perseverance. He describes himself as an experienced professional with a zeal to succeed in life. He holds dual certifications as a Biblical Life Coach and a Life Breakthrough Coach.
He is also a published author of "Times of Perseverance: Hope and Healing on the Battlefield of Life". So welcome, Gregg.
Hey, good morning. Welcome.
Welcome to BINDWAVES, the official podcast of the Brain Injury Network of Dallas. I'm Brian White, BIND's Executive Director. On each episode, we'll be providing insight into the brain injury community. We'll be talking to members and professionals regarding their stories and the important role of BIND's Clubhouse. We work as a team to inspire hope, community, and a sense of purpose to survivors, caregivers, and the public. Thank you for tuning into BINDWAVES. Let's get on with the show.
So, since I mentioned your book, why don't you start us off with that. Tell us a little bit about your book.
Uh, my book is a compelling narrative chronicling my survival from personal family, traumatic brain injury. My brother was severely brain injured. I've been brain injured. Uh, and, um, my book talks about that whole process of what I experienced.
Yeah, I think it's great that you mentioned that your brother and you are also a brain injury survivor. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Um, if you feel comfortable for doing that.
Yeah, let me give you just a brief overview of my, my brother was, um, in a head-on collision, uh, and, um, in, in the late eighties. And, uh, he was, uh, He was traveling in a car and there was inclement weather and, um, it's a miracle he survived because a few. Not far behind him, there was a there was a doctor and his nurse. Um, and they did a roadside tracheotomy and it's safe to say it saved his life. It was. Yeah. It was, it was a miracle. Um, he was a good Samaritan of course.
And so, um, my brother was sick. Severely brain injured was in the hospital for many months and then went to a brain injury uh, rehab hospital for a long time and then transitioned to a halfway house and lived on his own. Um, During that time, uh, fast forward so many years, uh, to, uh, 19. Uh, 1992, I was hit by a car uh, while jogging and I was jogging, not in the right place. I should've been jogging, uh, with traffic to see me and they were behind me. And so.
Uh, I made a mistake and did that and was hit and, and shattered my my left leg was shattered had to put the bone in the ankle was shattered in two places and I, I, uh, my head was slammed up against the car, the windshield, and I sustained a lot of, uh, it was open. You know, wound there, but I had a, I had a traumatic. I had a traumatic brain injury from that. Um, as a result of that and to spend some time in the hospital in ICU, and then went to a rehab hospital for about a month.
And, um, survived that. But then a number of years later, in 2011, I had, uh, another car accident. I had a car accident and, um, this time because of the head injuries that I had in my life, I had. I had had I developed post-concussion syndrome. So I developed vertigo and depression and Intense sensitivity to sound saw our neurologist and, um, it registers into debilates symptoms and recovered from that.
But along the way towards the tail end of it, I, I said to my wife, I'm going to write about this. I don't know when or how, but I'm going to go do it. And sure enough, I did just that. And through the process of time, I was able to, um, you know, To write this book to provide hope, encouragement, inspiration. To the brain injured and their families, and also to all people who are wounded in society.
Well there you go. You fit right in with us. So now that brings up another question, I guess, that I hadn't really thought about. So were you already on your road to life coaching before your brain injury or did that all happen after the brain injury?
Thank you that happened to after the brain injury. Many years afterwards. Yeah.
Okay. Well, so the, the quick is the question I had when I was, when I realized that you and your brother both had had a brain injury and you're doing life coaching. I didn't even think to put two and two together that maybe the brain injury is what led you down that path. But. Do you think that because of your experience, both personally, and with your brother, that that allows you to be more empathetic? As a coacher as a coaching person.
Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. I would say, um, my ability to be, I'm also a hospice chaplain and I've been a workplace chaplain, but it is a life coach with my dual certifications, all the experiences that I've been through and you don't see it when you're going through it. But when you go through a severe traumatic brain injury with a family member and you've gone through your own brain injury, Uh, and, and, you know, it really makes you, uh, sensitive to to hurting people.
To the wounded people. Um, and so it's given me an appreciation for, uh, a deep appreciation for the human and spiritual condition. And I've been able now to get a little additional training and some experience. And so it helps me in my work.
Yeah. And I think that like, Um, just so you know, that are part of our podcast is also to like encourage our, the members and other brain injury survivors to have questions for you. Right. So one of the questions was definitely like as a life coach. And as a counselor, can you explain. Um, The differences that you have had like between the life coach and a counselor?
Yeah. Yeah, sure. I'm a spiritual counselor that would be connected to being a hospice chaplain and a life with just let me explain the difference. When we tell you what a hospice chap, what a licensed we want a life coach is and what it isn't. Yeah. That's the best way to start that. So you both understand. Our audience understands; a life coach is not a psychotherapist. A Life coach is not an LPC or a psychologist.
Um, those are, uh, those are people who are trained to work with past trauma, past emotional trauma, and a lot of tons of psychopathology. There are people depressed. It may be similar. Some other issues going on. And so they're trained to work with people who have been, uh, you know, uh, deeply wounded in that area. And, and, and, and work with through. Uh, trials with that associated with that as affecting your life.
What a life coach is a that's what a life coach isn't and what a life coach is it's. Uh, it takes people from where they're at and helps them get to where they're at to where they want to be. That's on the life breakthrough side. That's a, um, a side that does not emphasize God or his view of the human condition. It has a changed model and it's geared towards the secular population, but it helps people get to where they're at to where they want to be. The other side is a biblical framework.
It's a Christ center framework and helps takes people where there are to. And to where God wants, wants them to be. And it utilizes biblical framework, the scripture. Uh, as, as doing just that.
Okay, thank you. I think it's important for us to fully understand that. Um, like I said, these are questions that we receive because we make sure to let our members know, Brain Injury Network. We have you as a guest, right? So these are just like interesting. Like what, what can we learn more about him? So thank you so much for allowing well sharing the differences. It's really important for us.
I think a lot of us, you know, as being in the brain injury world, we understand counseling because we get counseling in our recovery process, you know, in our inpatient, in our, if we get to go to Day Neuro, if we get to go. To a PATE or a CNS or somewhere like that. You've given all of that counseling. And so we know we understand LPC and all that, but you know, life coaching is a little bit different, but I get, so it's like, okay, I'm through with my.
Therapy, my inpatient, my outpatient, I guess you have it, you know, and I'm not really in that place where I think I need personal counseling to deal with my emotions anymore. I just I'm like, I know that I can still be a hundred percent person, but I have this disability.
Now I'm going to come get some life coaching so you can help me realize my goals and how I am still a hundred is still a hundred percent person even with my disability, that I can still achieve those goals and how to achieve those goals. Am I getting that right? It's taking my brain injured world, trying to break it down.
No you, that was a great, great, uh, description. It's take it's meeting people where they're at. And by the way, I do that as a hospice chaplain in a workplace workplace chaplian, with hospital chaplains have been with them a number of years. You know, meeting with employees at the workplace or you're meeting them all where they're at. It's the same thing as a hospice chaplain, it's different circumstance. I've worked with the terminally ill but I'm meeting them all where they're at.
And as a life coach, whether it's on the life breakthrough side or the Biblical life. A Biblical like coaching side. Meeting all people where they're at and just so you know, Uh, coaching is 80% listening, 20% talking, maybe a little bit more listening, but it's, it's majority listening to and it's asking open ended questions, and it's not telling people what to do. So by virtually there, I am helping the client or the person I'm coaching the coachee.
Uh, you know, by listening and reflecting back to them what they're saying, and then getting them to, to, you know, challenging their thinking and getting them to think for themselves to keep their agency of who they are, to be able to think through things for themselves.
That makes perfect sense. Thank you.
Yeah, and I actually, right now you mentioned a little bit about it. But why do you think that, uh, what you do or actually, why do you think members or brain injury survivors or the people that you work with? Are engaged with you? Like why do you think that happens?
Uh, I think. Um, I think the first thing that when you working with anybody really wanting to develop trust, they need to feel as though they can trust you and talk to you. And so, um, I remember I, I, uh, was, went to a meeting somewhere and I spoke to one of the employed. One of the place, people who had worked at this place when there was a networking group and they were, they told me they really appreciated my heart and my spirit. And sure enough, that person became a client.
So they saw something from me. And so let me go back and say that that's so important that I have to be able to, people have to understand that, uh, that I care the best thing I can give people. Is to listen and genuinely care about their life. And I wrote that in my book and I lived that out every day and it's doing that listening and genuinely caring that there used to be some chemistry to sure.
Um, people have to feel as though they, you know, They could, they could, and that takes time to take for both people, even for the coach, because we're all human. It takes time to get to know people, but it starts with that. And then it just moves forward. As we developed that. You know, rapport to get to know each other, each other. Right.
Okay. Yeah. So I know that was kind of one of the questions we have, but I'm gonna try to rephrase it a little bit differently. We're talking a lot to you about brain injury, because that's us, that's our audience. That's who we are, but I'm going to guess that not all your patients are disabled. Like, do you say. Um, do you have, do you work with very many disabled or do you actually tend to work with more able-bodied?
Um, yeah, I, I'm not presently working with any brain injured, but I'm, I'm able to do that. Um, I mean, I'm certainly, uh, um, working, you know, with other people who, you know, well as a hospice chaplain. It is a workplace chaplain. Uh, but no, I'm, I am, I I'm not working with any, but I would, would be able to, because of my understanding and background being experience, experienced survivor myself.
Be able to, uh, you know, uh, understand a lot better and be more of an effective coach and listener I think. Yeah,
I definitely think that, um, I'm going to take a quick pause. Um, just to remind that our listeners to make sure to continue connecting on Thursdays. Uh, and continue to just checking into your favorite, um, platform. And just make sure to follow us, click all those like buttons and just keep connecting with us. Okay. So I had like a question too.
So with the people that you work with, like, what are some challenges that you have experienced with your clients, the people that you're connecting with.
I would say, well, you know, there's either internal or external barriers and, you know, barriers come in different, different shapes and sizes, but lots of people have challenged. I say challenges. That's a better word. Uh, with time management. Yeah. It's setting boundaries within themselves and within people within their relationships, the interpersonal component is pivotal. Uh, that's the life blood of the organization, life, blood of the world.
So they're, they're having challenges with that. Um, and they're just stuck, you know, they're, they're in a, what we call a cycle. You know, whether they're doing the same thing over and over, are we going to do the same? You know, they're doing the same thing. Oh. But learned behavior could be unlearned. You can break the cycle, but you need, you need someone to listen to and to guide you. And I it's, hence my God had changed for the feature is I'm taking people where they're at.
And I'm helping them work through the time management. Uh, one person I work with to help them get a daily planner and it helped him greatly got some good feedback on that. So there's a number of, we'll do that again.
If it starts, you know, invariably, um, you know, things may come in there, you know, about their relationships and I still can talk with them about that, but again, um, I also have to keep my radars up to listen, you know, Uh, could this person best be served with a counselor depending on what the. And again, I don't, I don't make any rash decisions. I just really like to listen, but by and large, um, coaching meets all people where they're at.
And, um, certainly if someone is disabled or neurologically impaired that that's okay. Uh, As long as they're able to work with me and they feel comfortable working with me. And if they're working with a counselor and that's sometimes a question, I may ask them the question, are you working with someone now? Or is it something, you know, and I need to understand, so I can best be of some service, but it's very important to be able to talk to people and to understand where they're at.
And then I always ask people. How can I be of help? What brings you to coaching? W w what would you like to work on? Right. And then I helped them narrow that down. So people come with a laundry list, but usually it, it narrows down to several things. Sure. Um, you know, and, you know, look it, you know, if you do some, if you have a trouble doing something, then you do when you feel better. So the emotions are involved.
Um, you know, but, uh, that's what I normally like to do is to knows the people that I kind of see, it's kind of a plethora of a lot of different things. Um, but the, when people have challenges with relationships, it usually goes down to boundary issues. You have trouble setting boundaries with them themselves, or with someone else. Uh, and they, they don't know how to do that. And so I'm able to help them to guide them in that respect to make some changes.
Right. And I think that boundary setting boundaries. And like, even what you just said at first, it's just establishing like, um, your time, it's so difficult. It's something I had to learn even before this stroke. And even after like how much time do you have available and what's actually like possible to do right? And then setting boundaries as to like, when can I say that I have this much time available and being able and making it easier to say no is so difficult.
And I think that's something that you can relate to, regardless if you have a brain injury or not. Right. So thank you for sharing that.
Oh, you're welcome. And thank you for sharing. What you just shared about a lot of people have trouble saying no. Yeah. And so what, what I, what I, when I help people understand, help them to learn is, you know, it's okay if you can't do it. And once you give yourself permission, then you can tell the other person, you know, uh, Kezia I really appreciate your asking me to take on some extra work. I would love to help you do that.
Um, Um, I'm a little overextended right now, and I'm not able to do that, but, uh, but I'm hoping in the future. So, so again, you have to be able to, um, first give yourself permission and then you can respond back. So the other person. knows their heard. So they know. Does that make sense?
Yeah, definitely.
And so, because we've raised, okay. So we, we were not, we, we stopped saying no. Well, how do we w you know, and there's that interpersonal component. So it's learning how to be proactive, not be reactive, right.
And we were working on that. Yeah. Now, one of the questions I just really, we said, you know, we ask our members for questions that they have. That I'm going to, again, reword it a little bit differently, but I think you, as a brain injury survivor could probably help us. But since you have the experience that we have and your coach lifeing experience, but. What are maybe some are some ways I'm going to try to do that.
Brain injured survivors look at as like a negative that you could help spin in a positive. So like, In the beginning, you know, I was very negative because my left side didn't work. I was very, you know, down and out. I have, since on my own, been able to turn that into a positive and go ehh so my arm doesn't work like it's supposed to, I'm still working on it and I'm trying to get better. I'm doing the best I can with it, but I'm not going to let that affect the other 90% of my life.
I mean, do you ever have come across things like that with people that they, they see this thing as a very negative thing, and it's really not that negative. And how do we twist that to positive.
That's a great question. And yes, I do deal with that. And I have dealt with that as a brain injured survivor. And do deal with that with my coaching clients, we're talking about reframing. Let's talk about that. Reframing is changing the way you see things in the way you believe things. We all have values. At first, it goes back to our value system but, reframing would be goes down to basically catching your thoughts.
First, you got to do thought stopping there's a little, you know, uh mental work here. You have to say. You know, stop yourself. And if you need a picture of stop sign, you do that. And then once you do that, you're not quite done yet. You know, when you're in your car and you're at the stop sign, you stop. And that's why you still have to stop. And then you'll look for cars, but then you have to take your foot off the excelerator and go move the car.
So reframing is now, now that you've stopped, that thought of being negative. Uh, it's looking at your situation differently and it's saying, you know, I've got this injury and, um, it's, it's, it's caused some challenges and I've really worked really hard, but uh, but I'm going to move beyond this and, uh, I there's some things I can't do and I'm aware of the limitations, but does not define who I am. I can, I can do so much more. Uh with who I am and what I have to offer people.
So now you see how you're turning that around and you're saying that to yourself. And so if you don't catch yourself and the negativity begins as a little bit of a like, you know, you take a little snow and then you take a little bit more snow and then you roll that snowball and it becomes a s- comes a big snowball. And so you have to sort of catch that in the beginning. So I get my clients to reframe, to look at things differently.
And if you have to write it down first, that's good to get a double column. Piece of paper, write down, you know, negative thoughts, positives thoughts someone in negative, sometimes their automatic thoughts. Come without. And so you write down that thought and then on the other side, You know, um, you know, if you have a negative thought. Uh, I'm never going to be able to do anything. I can't do anything with my arm anymore.
Then you write that on the left side, on the right side, the positive you write you know, I've had some, I've had some, some, some challenges with this and, uh, and I've worked very hard to get better at it, but it doesn't define me. I'm going to be able to move beyond this. So now you're telling yourself you're seeing things from a different point. Uh, but you're challenging. You're sort of challenging that what they say, that internal critic.
Uh, is David Dr. David Burns said that he said that in his new mood therapy book. He was a cognitive behavioral, uh, uh, clinician many, many years ago. I read that book at during my first brain injury. And it really helped me a lot to really challenge that internal critic. But once you challenge it, then you got to. You know, You know, talk, um, uh, be positive to yourself.
And endorse yourself and that takes work and that's a process, but it's the reframing it's going back and getting people to challenge that negativity. And there's a lot of ways to do that. The double column technique, I think is a good way, but, and then it's getting them to reframe it. Look at it, say it, say it differently to themselves. And when you say something to yourself, you hear yourself.
And then you begin to, if you say it long enough and you begin to believe it, and then you begin to sort of quell out that negativity where the positivity takes over. Does that make sense?
Yeah, it definitely makes sense. I think that, um, I think that's definitely something that many people can also relate to. Right? Like you just went through a very negative experience. I mean, it was traumatic, like what we have, like a lot of members. And a lot of brain injury survivors had too. have, right? It wasn't our choice to go through this experience. But then we flip it to make it seem like a positive outcome, right?
Like for me, the way that I look at it is like I had to restart my life. And it was terrible, but now I do a podcast. Like I wouldn't have doing a podcast, if that didn't happen to me. So I'm going through this great experience, right? Um, And then like, In regards to you, like what gives you the hope and the motivation to continue? And like, how do you relate that with the people that you work with? Like, how do you, how do you do that?
Sure. I, um, I, I think that what's helped me first is just to let the viewers know that, um, um, I've I worked with when my brother was severely brain injured, I seeked out some counseling at university and it helped me immensely. Uh, and then, um, when, um, when we had the COVID outbreak, uh, that was, uh, that was a very difficult time for a lot of people. People got isolated.
Um, long story short, my mother, my mother got COVID unexpectedly and then four months later, my father, uh, four days later, my father-in-law passed away. And it was really in the course of those, uh, that time I had my book, my manuscript was due and I got an extension for my publisher. They were so loving and supportive. But I wrote a postscript on my, on surviving the grief with my mother. And so I ended up working with a grief counselor and my, my, my counselors really taught me a lot.
Still work with this person. Um, they have helped me to be able to look beyond my situation. They have helped me to understand that the real healing comes from within. And that, um, it's going to take time and that God is control. He has a plan and a it's perfect. But I have to be patient. And the patience part is the hardest thing.
Absolutely. And don't ever ask for patience. I know that one.
We don't want to be, we don't want to be patient it's just within our nature. The human part is my council. So the human part gets in the way, but, but really in a sense, you know, it's hard to trust an unseen or unheard thing, but we have to do it by faith. Yeah, we have to do it by faith. And so what that's what's helped me is I've been able to look beyond my situation. Uh, my situation from accident was I had a, my leg was shattered, but it healed. I had hardware in it.
I had it removed because I had a piece of the hardwear coming out. So a year later they took it out. I went to see an orthopedic doctor. He says, I hope, you could run. So I got a brace I was running on and off throughout the years out of a number of braces to do that and told about a year or so ago, I got really bad pain and I knew I needed to go see the doctor. So I got a couple of consults and they basically told me, never run again. And I couldn't accept that.
You know, I really couldn't accept. I couldn't run. I figured everything I had survived and gone through. I guess we all endure injuries. So I went to see a top prominent sports medicine, ankle orthopedic surgeon here in Dallas. And he said, you know, if you continue to run, you're going to have pain and you're going to also that, further damage the joint surface. So I didn't want to end up having my ankles seize and have it. You know, problems. So. I had to make a change.
And what I did was I said, you know, I can cycle, you know, and I did. And so now I'm considering, training for master cycling races. So I took a, a situation that was, I can't.
There's your negative and you turn it into a positive.
Exactly. Exactly. And so, but we don't see it as my counselor has taught me. And this is very important here. For us all. We're trying to go through it through. through through the dark times of the valley with a brain injury. Um, we don't see it when we're going through it. Exactly. God does. God sees the beginning and the end, but it's only when you get through it where you could look back, kind of see, as you have now, you're saying now you're looking back on what you've gone through.
Now you're seeing why you won't be doing a podcast. You're a host. Yeah. Yeah. But we have to sort of just know that. We will, we will progress and get better, but we don't know when that will be or how it will be. Because we want to know. And there are some things we just have to accept that we can't know. And so we step back in faith, we let God work. We'd work with the people around us. And we take not just one day at a time. Sometimes you have to take an hour at time.
Sometimes a minute or a moment at a time, but we do it. By God's grace.
Absolutely, well Gregg, if our listener and our listeners want to, reach out to you, where can they get more information on your coaching services? We will make sure we include this in the description, but yeah, right. Now,
Let me, let me give you my website. I'm going to spell it. It's kind of a long word. It's beyond perseverance.com. That's my website, B E Y O N D P as in Peter, E R S C V as in Victor, E R A N C e.com. If you go to my website, you can read about my different coaching services. And then if you want to send me an email it's on the website. There's a place to send me an email, but I'll give you my email now. It's Gregg and that's two G's.
Make sure you've spelled g-r-e-g-g@beyondperseverance.com gregg@beyondperseverance.com. That's my contact information.
All right. Well, thank you so much for giving your time and coming here to Plano and hanging out with us and having a conversation. I definitely want to thank you for joining us. And I also want to obviously think, I guest, I mean our listeners to spending the last couple of minutes, um, to listen to us out. So thank you. You're welcome.
Thank you very much, Gregg. And again, for our listeners, if you want to contact us. I'm not quite as good as you on my, I don't know if I'm ready to try and spelling that out like that, but it'd be like to contact us. You can email us at BINDwaves. B I N D W A V E S. the BIND T H E B I N D.org. Thats hard to do. Follow us on Instagram @Bindwaves. And you can visit our website, thebind.org/bindwaves. And if you like. We've mentioned a couple times.
If you're interested in becoming a member or volunteering with this, you can also find those applications on the main website, the BIND.org.
And of course. That's all of our listeners, don't forget to like, share, and subscribe on whatever your favorite platform is. And obviously we're on YouTube. So just make sure to like us. And continue following us.
And again, remember, you can find us every Thursday on all your favorite platforms. So until next time.
Until next time.
We hope you've enjoyed listening to BIND Waves and continue to support BIND and our non profit mission. We support brain injury survivors as they reconnect into the life, the community, and their workplace. And we couldn't do that without great listeners like you. We appreciate each and every one of you. Continue watching. Until next time. Until next time.