Intrumental music playing
Hi, I'm Carrie, a stroke survivor and a member of BIND.
And I'm Kezia, a stroke survivor and member of BIND. And today, we are very excited to talk something completely new. Uh, we're going to be exploring, uh, spirituality. I had a hard time saying that. Um, after a brain injury. And we are going to be talking to our guest. Uh, his name is Johnny Taylor, and he is a Chaplain at UT Southwestern Medical Center, and he has had an experience doing that for the past 28 years.
He's very compassionate, approaching different spiritualities, uh, to members, actually to brain injury survivors, to staff and to, uh, family and supporters. Uh, we will be talking about him and the different things that he does, uh, to be bringing us that hope. So, thank you so much for coming and joining us. We're so excited to have you here.
Good to be here. Thank you.
Welcome to BINDWAVES, the official podcast of the Brain Injury Network of Dallas. I'm Brian White, BIND's Executive Director. On each episode, we'll be providing insight into the brain injury community. We'll be talking to members and professionals regarding their stories and the important role of BIND's Clubhouse. We work as a team to inspire hope, community, and a sense of purpose to survivors, caregivers, and the public. Thank you for tuning into BINDWAVES.
BINDWAVES Let's get on with the show.
So, uh, for all of us, actually for me, um, this is something totally new. I don't think I had the experience of having that, uh, after my brain injury. So, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and a little bit about what you did?
Yeah, my, my role is, uh, as a chaplain is really just, uh, started back in 1996, and, uh, where I came in and started it, uh, actually before Clements University Hospital was built, we were together at, uh, Zale Leipsih, and, uh, happened to, uh, was actually involved as a chaplain there, and then, uh, served, Zale was known for its neurosurgery, and so we had a lot of people coming in from, for tumors as far as brain injury, aneurysm, ruptured aneurysms, as well as TBI and some other issues
and challenges as well. And so my role was really just to be there to provide that support to the family.
Okay, I guess we're going to back up just a little bit. Can you explain to our listeners and to us what What is the role of a chaplain? What is a chaplain?
Yeah, so a chaplain really is anyone, any clergy that is attached to institution or most people know about it as far as the armed forces, but you also have hospitals who have chaplains. Not every hospital has a chaplain. Uh, fortunately at UT Southwestern, we have over 20. And so we're, uh, we're there, uh, providing spiritual care in, in a number of ways.
But, uh, anyway, we were there and so, uh, basically we're there to provide that presence, to provide, uh, encouragement, and really just listening, uh, because as you know, a lot of people who, or most people who come in with a TBI or stroke, uh, there are a lot of issues going on with the family as well as the patient. Uh, and so we're there to provide that, uh, support, emotional, uh, social, as well as, uh, the spiritual support too.
Yeah. Um, I, like I said earlier, I don't think I have much of an experience with that, um, which kind of goes on to ask, like, how, After a brain injury, like with the people that you've, you've seen before, uh, how is it that you provide that help? Like maybe some examples?
Yeah, I guess you might say, uh, obviously if somebody comes in with a TBI, they're, they may not be aware of what's going on and just with all the challenges that are, that they have before them, but their family is, going through a lot, emotionally, as you can imagine, and probably from your own experience, your family has a lot to do with that. And so they're, they're needing some support, emotional support. Most people who are a chaplain will come in. I'll introduce myself.
Hello, I'm Johnny Taylor. I'm one of the chaplains. And immediately there's a sense of hope. And uh, they look to their own spirituality, uh, to provide that. A lot of people nowadays are not involved in church, but yet when they get into a situation, a serious situation in there in the hospital, they need someone who can give them hope and encouragement. And that's where, and they, in looking at their own existential way of providing that hope, and we do that.
Okay, and that kind of brings me to another question. I know we've talked a lot, I've talked a lot about this, that, um, As a brain injured, new brain injured survivor, you have to go through the normal processes of grief as of when someone dies because a part of us has died. And so how do, how do you help people get through those grief process, through the grieving process to become, you know, more comfortable in their own skin again?
Yeah, a lot of that, uh, comes into, you know, as you said, uh, when you have deficits, you have, there is a death, and it's a matter of being there present with them in that struggle. And that struggle can go a number of pathways, and it's a way of, uh, maybe as a chaplain helping the, the patient as well as the family. navigate through that wilderness, you might say.
And it is a wilderness of grief because of a lot of uncertainty, future concerns, as well as what's going to happen, and just a lot of ways. I think probably the best way, and we may cover this later on, and just let me know if I'm going ahead of myself.
But probably the best way that I can say is that I was on the 8th floor of Zale Leipsig University Hospital, was walking down, had been doing my, making my rounds, saying hello and rounding, and a, uh, a fiance of a patient who was in rehab for a ruptured aneurysm came out and said, Hey chaplain, uh, do you have a support group? And I said, No, but that's a good idea. And so in 2004, we started the support group, which is still going on today. And so it's been going on for a long way.
It's had some changes in leadership and that kind of thing, and you can expect that, but, uh, that's a way that we provide that support as well. And we can talk about that later on.
But I think a lot of it is just a way of really providing that encouragement and hope for the family, because in the psychosocial area, you have a medical team that is helping patients and families, but then that those families are, those patients or families are going through a lot of emotional problems, psychological problems, depression, a lot of seriousness of looking at everything, as well as the family, and then of course their own spirituality looking at that.
Right, and I think that, um, using the support group as an example is great because sometimes, at least for me, at the time of me being hospitalized and when everything had just happened, I didn't understand what happened, like at all, right? Um, but once I went into rehabilitation, I understood that I was not myself anymore and losing my identity like Carrie had just said it's just like a big shocking moment when so many things happen in our life. Like I could not walk anymore.
I couldn't talk very well I didn't I couldn't comprehend what was happening around me at that time How is it? To be able to say like I think I'm gonna need someone to talk to me Like I know in a support group you can go into a group without an idea of what to talk about, but you hear others talk about their struggles and like, oh, that relates to me. But when you're meeting with someone individually, how do you bring up or how do you encourage these issues to come up.
Yeah, a lot of people feel like, or think that chaplain, all we do is pray. And that's not, we of course obviously pray as well with the family and with the patient. But a lot of it comes from nurses, a great medical team that is aware of just what's going on with the family and what's going on with the patient and they may see that there's a need. Uh, a lot of emotional.
Uh, issues that are going on and so that nurse or that doctor or, or maybe that therapist will recognize that they, uh, might need somebody to talk to. I guess probably the best way I can tell you is the way I got, uh, is really, uh, a long time ago, I was a bag boy for Piggly Wiggly. I'm sure you may have heard of Piggly Wiggly. Piggly Wiggly is a grocery store. I grew up in Alabama. And, but I was the bag boy that you did not want.
That was back during the days when it was only, uh, when it was only paper. There was no plastic. And, and I grew up in Alexander City, Alabama, which is home of Russell Mills at that time. You may have heard of Russell Athletic Wear, the jogging pants.
So, uh, what would happen is when, when Russell got paid, there was a mad dash to the Pig for them to everybody to buy groceries and sometimes and so I'm back behind the counter as a 16 year old bagging groceries in that paper bag and stuffing it and stuffing it and stuffing it and then sometimes that bag would split.
And you know that's the way life is when there's a TBI that, you know, a lot of people, a lot of families stuff and stuff and stuff their emotions and they just need someone to talk to, to help, help that, help that emotion to rise to the surface so that, you know, They can just deal with what's going on and that's where a chaplain comes in is to help that family in all the challenges that they have before them from a spiritual standpoint.
I like that analogy so that their bag doesn't rip.
Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right.
Yeah, and now I know, um, again, I'm gonna ask this question. I mean, I was this person, you know, is it normal for someone to be angry? Um, and whatever their religion might be, um, you know, their belief, I, you know, I'm Southern Baptist, so I have a relationship with God, but I was pissed off at God. Why did you do this to me? Why did you let this happen to me? I mean, how do you help someone with that? I mean
Yeah, I think it's a, again, it's a matter of presence. It's a matter of being there. You know, there's nothing wrong with being angry. I've been angry, and if you look really in Scripture, Jesus kind of got angry too at times. But yet, and it doesn't matter, at least in my experience, it doesn't matter what religion you are, people get angry, and there's nothing wrong with getting angry, but it's how you deal with that anger is really what's important.
And so because of that, medical team who's there, therapists who are there, uh, everyone, they might recognize that there's some anger issues going on with the patient or with the family, you know, that they're, they, the family may be seeing what's down the road. And so what's down, down the road and what they're going to be dealing with.
When the discharge happens, and so, uh, the nurses may, uh, be, uh, may recognize that there needs to be someone that they might want to talk to, and so, so it's a matter of being present, it's a matter of, of talking, of listening, listening is important, and listening to that family and kind of exploring and helping them navigate through that anger.
I really like how you are bringing up a lot of, like, the family. That's kind of what I hear more from you. And a lot of the times we talk about ourselves as survivors. Um, but I really like that you're bringing up the family because it's a whole other side of, like, of our world, right? Our little mini world.
It's so important because, like, I actually was really grateful that I had a really good experience, um, in, uh, rehabilitation where my family was, kind of talked about what I was going through, like, kind of, uh, therapists were talking about my inability or my difficulty speaking and all of these things, kind of preparing them to be patient for me. Um, and I didn't think about it that way, that it's important at that moment for family to be patient and understand.
Um, I've just heard terrible things about, you know, family getting upset that therapy means their wife learning how to do their makeup again, as if that's not therapy. And it is. It's learning already to find a way to accept ourselves. Um, but at the time for a family to accept them, how do you go around that conversation? Like, this isn't going to be forever, but it is a new person. How do you go around to communicate that with the family?
Well, I think a lot of it is a matter of just It depends on where they are. You have to start where they are. And, uh, that could be where they are is that they are angry, or they are, uh, looking ahead, the future concerned, because they see this is going to be a long term, uh, effort. And so, because they've lost their future, you know, they had expectations, they had, they were anticipating. In other words, this was not supposed to happen, but yet it did. Life happened.
And so because of that, then as far as really, it's a matter of just kind of finding out where they are and asking some questions of, uh, you know, Uh, how are you today? Or either, it's just a matter of finding out what, where they are and knowing where they are and then at that point, helping them explore that, that response and, and all that they're saying.
Right. And I agree with Kezia. She was saying when you talked about, and you're talking a lot about family, which I think is important because a lot of people that haven't been involved with brain injury don't realize that. I had the brain injury. I had the stroke, but the whole family is affected and has had the injury. It's not just the survivor that's surviving.
Yeah, and, and at the point you have to remember I'm in a hospital, and so a lot of patients that I see, they're still dealing with how to function, you know, how to do everything all over. They're starting all over again, so they're not, they may not be ready to see me, but their family is already dealing, is already dealing with a lot.
All right, I'm going to take a quick little break and just remind our listeners to go ahead and click that like button, click that share button, and click that subscribe button, and keep on listening. And so, Johnny, I was coming back to that. So that was one of the things is, how do you help patients learn how to get back that self acceptance of this new you? I mean, that was one of the words I hated more than anything at the very beginning. It's a new you.
It's not, you know, you're still a good person. You're still the same person. You're just. A little quirkier now, maybe, or something.
Yeah, uh, a lot of that, I think some, uh, a good portion of that comes from the support group that I was involved in. Uh, that, and, and because we had families and patients who are survivors who would come in, and they had no idea. They, they, they would say things like, I'm trying to figure out ways that I can pay my light bill and just, uh, where can I go for that? And, uh, families were really distraught. Family members were coming in and they were distraught and that kind of thing.
And so, we, we at UT Southwestern and our particular support group, uh, created a list of just, you know, Helpful agencies and resources that can be of help and that kind of thing. But as far as at the hospital, when somebody is at the hospital and they're it's really just a matter of seeing, seeing that patient, encouraging that patient in that progress, uh, you know, maybe they have, you know, Learned how to comb their hair again. You know, it's a lot of encouragement.
It's a lot of just supporting them in that moment. And then at that point, helping the family to know that there is someone who is here to support them and help them through that.
And how would you, so like I said earlier, I don't think I had this service where I was at at the time, but for the people here, like how would you be able to recommend, um, the family or the brain injury survivor to be able to have a chaplain? How do you, how do you choose where to go?
Well, I think, you know, once they're discharged, then it's a matter of finding out, uh, you know, their local church, getting involved, back involved in their local church. Um, certainly if they're in Plano, they can give me a call at UT Southwestern, I'll be glad to talk to them as well. And maybe we can give the contact information later on, but, uh, you know, Once they're discharged from our hospital, then it's a matter of them getting involved.
I think that a word that I would say it's a matter of repurposing. And one way of repurposing is could, could be a way of them looking into their own their own tenets of faith and finding that hope in their own tenets of faith. You know, it could be that they're not involved in a church. They're not involved really in faith, but yet they find meditation, they find mindfulness, they find nature. That's their higher power, and so it's a matter of getting involved. What can I do?
Okay, I have these deficits now. So what can I do to repurpose my life to find meaning? Where do I go to find meaning? To find purpose? And so it's a matter of, as far as finding a chaplain, they may want to look to their own particular, either synagogue, their rabbi, their imam, their pastor, or whoever. But at the same time, it may be contacting someone else so we're available.
Okay, well that brings up a good point that um, we were talking about as the members as we were getting together our list of questions. Um, so as a chaplain you're not faith specific correct? Correct.
Right. Yeah, we're, that's what really a chaplain is at what In the armed forces, at an institution, you know, there are actually banks and other institutions that have chaplains. But a chaplain is really trying to look at the holistic part of spirituality. So you have a pastor or a clergy faith leader in a particular church, synagogue, whatever, but then a chaplain would be someone who is looking at all faiths and being there for them.
And if, if, uh, a good example would be, uh, just recently I had, uh, we had a patient who came in who was Muslim. Patient would come in. Fortunately for us, we have a Muslim chaplain. So obviously that Muslim chaplain could do could meet the need better than I could as an Evangelical and as a Protestant. So we punted that and we, uh, I let him know and he was able to provide that need and the patient died. And so they were able to come in and provide, meet the need.
So yeah, we look at all faiths.
Okay. Yeah. And I think right now also we've, we've been focusing a lot on this, the families. How is it that, uh, Caregivers themselves, which is family too, but a lot of it is friends as well. What is some advice you would be able to give to someone like that? That just had somebody else be a brain injury survivor? Yeah.
So, uh, as far as advice or, uh, maybe suggestion, it's really a matter of seeking out someone that they can, because they're going through a lot of issues as well. You cannot stuff.
What's going on in your own self the emotions the feelings you can't stop that you've got to bring that out Because it's when you bring it out like in the the grocery bag I was telling you about you've got to bring that out because it will begin to affect you mentally, physically in a lot of ways, but when you bring it out and when you talk about it, it's a way of helping you.
Okay? Well, and that brings up a good segway perfectly to this next question that one of our members asked and I think you know you're talking about you're dealing with everybody else's emotions and their anger and their frustration or whatever it may be with the survivor, the families, all of that. How do you, how do you, You, how does this affect your emotional state?
Yeah, well, you know You can't do this work for about 28 years without having to come home a lot of times and just so I think you know I got to the point where I realized hey, I need to see a good movie. I need to see something funny I mean, you know, there was a time when I was doing hospice work I was a hospice chaplain at the same time when I was doing Um Uh, chaplain at the hospital. And so, I might have three and four deaths in a week.
Oh. And so, so I got to the point where I would say, Okay, I think I, in being in touch with myself, and being aware of where I am, hey, I need to watch Seinfeld, or I need to, uh, see a good comedy.
You know, to offshoot, you know, where I was feeling so, but the other thing is just, uh, you know, that, that gets into staff, you know, you're talking about staff, whether, no matter where it is, uh, you know, uh, staff deal with a lot of issues too, and so that's another role of the chaplain at the hospital, uh, is that, and wherever that chaplain is helping that staff through the various issues that they're going through too.
I didn't even thought about that.
Yeah, and I think right now that you brought up the goodness and bringing up the good moments of life Right. I wanted to ask you that too. Like do you have any great experiences? I know the hospital we you see us in our first step, which is not that cute.
It's not But you know our life goes on and and we have these really great moments like our success to but what is some can you share something that happened that was really great with your with the people that you were seeing that just inspires you to continue going?
Well, I think I think you know, a long time ago I mentioned, you know, cuz I had kind of anticipated that question a little bit. And, you know, I really You shared with me some of the questions that are the questions you were going to ask. And I saw that question and I really had to go back to be honest with you. I had to, I went back to that one lady, that fiance that stepped out in the hallway and said, hey chaplain, do you have a support group?
Because of the fact that I have seen and met so many, uh, survivors, so many family members that have just come so, so far. And, uh, it was that lady who suggested that support group which led the way to, uh, offering that support group at UT Southwestern and providing that support group and, and also we had an offshoot of a stroke support group.
That is continuing on today as well, so, so I guess it's a matter of that, but another way is, I guess, uh, meeting, uh, survivors who, um, really have, have found meaning in their own life, in their own marriage, uh, and meaning in, in their way of, of just finding themselves and looking to, to life and just enjoying life.
Well, thank you so much, Mr. Taylor, for coming in. It's great to yeah, it's always great to hear different perspectives, especially in the point of view when it's not the best view. Right. And your your spirituality has been a great resource and a great. It's been great to hear this time. So thank you so much for coming in. Yeah. And thank you so much for all of our listeners for staying in for our episode. Make sure to just continue listening to us every Thursday.
And don't forget, if you want to contact us, you can email us at bindwaves@thebind.org or you can check us out, our website is thebind.org/bindwaves. And again, we're also on Instagram at, guess what, bindwaves um, so just continue to let us know if you have, follow us, and if you have questions or concerns or ideas for topics, we're always open, listening, ready to hear ya.
And don't forget, when you hear from Carrie, Halfway through every episode. Don't forget to like, share, and subscribe to your favorite platform. And just hit that like button on YouTube so you can always see our faces. Uh, so continue listening us.
And again, all episodes air every Thursday, so on any platform that you like listening, or like Kezia said, if you want to watch us on YouTube, that's always fun too. Um, but so, until next time.
Until next time.
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