The Future of Reality Capture Technology with Hexagon's Geosystems Reality Capture Division Veteran, Paul Burrows

You know , when I started my career I guess I never really thought I'd be with a business that long , but um , yeah , no , I started really . Incidentally , I got into 3D technology through archaeology in fact . So I already had a bit of a background in computing and computer animation and visualization .

And then I changed direction and I did my Bachelor of Science in archaeology and had the opportunity to play with some capture technology . So we were scanning rock art and very small objects like wooden ores that had been preserved in peat bulbs . It's really really like digital things .

And then I ended up at what's called the HP Vista Center , which is the Visual and Spatial Technology Center at Birmingham University , and they had some Leica scanners . So we started playing with the scanners and we had , you know , these open days .

We invited external people in to see what we were doing and one day someone from leica turned up and then about two weeks later I got a phone call saying would you , would you be interested to join the selling team .

And , uh , I was , to be honest , I was a little skeptical because I was kind of working in this academic environment and it was like a full-blown shift into commercial . But you know , looking back , nearly 18 years late , you know , later it was the decision oh , I wish , I wish less , less whips and pistols .

But yeah , I mean , that's kind of the vision everyone thinks when they're going to do archaeology . But I tell you what archaeology is so different to how it's portrayed in the media ? For sure , yeah , do you know , do you know what ? It was kind of like a mini project born out of um , born out of covid , really , and the lockdowns .

So I really , you know , I I'd for many years . I look back and I've been putting stuff on youtube for about 20 years now on around . Just when I first had that job at um Birmingham , I was still put , I was pushing stuff out and that was the way we just shared . You know , you shared it .

So , um , it got to a point where I had all these different threads I had . You know , I've got Instagram , got YouTube , got LinkedIn , got Twitter and you're like looking at it going , it's all a bit disjointed , it's all a bit disconnected .

So , yeah , I just set about using some of my tools and whatever and I'd already kind of said I was the laser scanning guy at some point and then , you know , this whole notion of reality capture came out . I thought it kind of fits a bit better .

Put some branding around it , put some you know nice imagery around it , put it across all the different sites and then just kind of push it . It was never really intentional , if that makes sense . It was like it wouldn't . How could , yeah , how can we kind of put a more united front here ?

And , um , nothing was ever to kind of say , oh , this is paul burrows and he's doing something different . It was just for people who followed us to go okay , there's some kind of center point where I can get a lot of information from this person .

It's not going to cost me anything , I can find it online , I can research it and make it accessible and , and you know , I quite , quite enjoy it . You know , it's quite nice , yeah , it's good fun to come you , yeah , it's quite nice , yeah , it's good fun to come and look at you . Perfect , perfect , perfect , yeah , sure , yeah , sure .

I mean , I know a lady called elaine ball , who's kind of like the figurehead for get kids into survey , and this has turned into kind of a you know , a pan-global little you know , I say little group , an organization of just trying to make you know young people .

I we say kids , let's , you know it's kids through young adults , through teenage , whatever what is available for them as a career within the geospatial sector . And for me , get kids into surveying is actually a relatively narrow view on it , because what it is is all of do you want to go into UAVs ? Do you want to go into mobile ?

Do you want to go into geospatial GIS type stuff ? There's so much there . And I think the other thing you know it's about education , of course , and there's a fun element to it . Realistically , you know you want to earn money , you want to do well , and people don't realize that there is a lot of money to be made in this sector .

Forward , you go into the , you know you talk about geopolitics and making sure everything is in its rightful place and every how everything interacts and and we know everything is globally surveyors are just more important than ever .

So it was also you know , we're not you know in this and I think it was also born from the frustration that we weren't getting enough people globally to go into surveying courses . So they'll , yeah , absolutely yeah . So we should try to plug that hole a little bit . And you know , elaine and her team have done a fantastic job .

And I just said , look , wherever I'm able to , I'll put my name to it . Wore my badge into geo this week or last week , um , and uh , yeah , I think it's , I think it's doing good things and there's , there's now a couple of franchisees in the us as well . Uh , so it's just , you know , it's just building and it's kind of a brand in itself .

But I , you know , I just use my platform to talk about it when I can really , yeah , just simple google , you'll find it . And there's , there's various free resources for teachers . There's posters you can get and request um and activity packs and stuff .

So , yeah , it's , yeah , it's a really good question , actually trying to say , I mean , I always I was just about to say I always consider myself quite good at simplifying stuff and trying and then yeah , and then now I'm thinking , okay , but no , I mean , for me , reality capture is is about just creating a , I guess , a computer generated view of the world

using , you know an array of sensors . You know it could be . You know you're using your LiDAR on your iPhone . It could be as simple as taking photos with your iPhone , but kind of applying geospatial principles to that data to bring it all together and display it . But I think reality capture has just got so wide .

It's very hard to just say , okay , this is reality capture , but for me , everyone using a device , up from you know a mobile phone through to airborne sensors , as long as you are able to somehow represent that data realistic , you know , not necessarily at scale , but you're on a pc screen , on an ipad , whatever , and and imbue that with metadata and other

information . Well , not , it's not just necessarily the , the 3d representation , but you know , I have , you know , 4d , yeah , the 4d and the 5d stuff that goes alongside that as well .

When you start moving into that term digital twin , um but yeah , for me reality capture is so wide now that um you know , hence reality capture guy , you kind of go , okay , well , is it as relevant ? Is it as relevant , but it's still the term that people are using , um .

Okay , I guess you could break that down into two , two parts of the kind of the misconception of reality capture . And then maybe you know that that is definitely , yeah , I know , and I've had that . I've had that a few times because I know I knew I'm not going to profess to be an expert in digital twins .

All I know is that you know , let's say , raw reality capture is not creating a digital twin . We are creating a representator . You know whether it's a point , cloud based or a surface based representation of something .

But , um , you know , the misconception for me not so much around the terminology , but misconception is that it can be difficult and we get a lot of customers come to us and go oh , I've heard that registering data together is really hard .

We're like no , if you go the right way , with the right software , with the right teams and again going back to the get kids into survey thing , think the right skill set , no , it's not hard . Um , you know , it can be very , very easy .

And also , you have to also bear in mind that there's people who require , like engineering , grade tolerances for stuff and then there's people who just want it to look roughly right , you know , if it's 10 centimeters where it needs to be great if .

And then there's other people who are like , well , look , I need to know where this flange is within like a couple of millimeters to be able to create a connection . So there's that whole .

You know there's a whole um discussion around just how difficult people might perceive the actual capture to be , and and making it accurate , I guess , um , so , yeah , I think that hopefully that sums up that yeah , yeah , okay , yeah , yeah , exactly , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , thank you , thank you , thank you , um , uh-huh , okay , okay , okay , okay ,

okay , okay , okay , okay , okay , okay , okay , okay , okay , yes , yes , okay , okay , okay , um , yes , okay , okay , okay , okay , okay , okay , thank you .

Yes , I mean , I think 2003 was my kind of first foray into into the object-based stuff , so , rather than terrestrial laser scanning , but my first ever hands-on with a piece of , you know , terrestrial laser scanning was with the cyrax 2500 , I think the 20 , maybe even the 2400 , but whatever it was , I just remember it being very big , very bulky external top ,

yeah , very heavy , two or three man , two or three man lift batteries , the size of the scanner itself . Um , so , yeah , I mean , I , when I then kind of went into the sales process , the first scanner that I was using was the hds 3000 , and that was the first one that kind of came out under the leica banner , right . So that was .

That was kind of more in the sort of form factor of a surveying instrument that you might have been used to , but then I've seen it , so I've seen it evolve right away from you know that all of that cumbersome products and using external laptops and generators and all this other stuff to make it work to you know , moving towards then everything be going on the

device . So with the scan station c10 , everything was , like you know , you could do everything off a small screen directly on the side of the device . And then now to the point where , yes , you can do stuff on the device but you've also got the connectivity to tablets and phones as that kind of gone through .

So we've now gone kind of all the way through to the point where you the new blk360 , which is still the smallest , lightest terrestrial latency device in the world , um , now has no screen but you just connect to it with your phone and you can visualize the data directly on your phone through a free app . So there's a bit you lap .

So for me , you know , what's really interesting is I talk about my evolution in hexagon as the size of my car , the size of my car . So I had this massive Honda estate like touring vehicle , I guess is what you would call it . I don't know , is it a tour or a wagon ? A wagon in the US Wagon ? Yeah , that was all the kit .

And then now you know , they could put me in a Fiat 500 and I'd be fine . It's now you know , yeah , well , that's it . Yeah , maybe maybe my next business , maybe when it how should be a Lotus , I know it's yeah , yeah , or a Corvette , who knows ? But , yeah , I've seen .

Yeah , yeah , yeah , my , my , oh , sorry , I was just about to say my mom used to work in a bank in the , and I guess that was in the probably 60s or 70s and I remember her saying they delivered this computer and it took up the whole room that she said I had to create , I had to create punch cards and you fend the then and I was just like I can't

even , you can't even fathom it . But then it's the same kind of . You know , if I tell my kids that I used to buy music on a cassette tape or a vinyl , I'm going to go huh , or a CD , and they're like huh . So you know it's crazy , I don't know , I don't know . Blue , I see no-transcript because the quality like so good .

Um , if I just want a representation of a digital factory , then maybe I'll start looking into slam , because it of the general look , the shape and feel .

But what's really interesting you mentioned sensor fusion , and I kind of look at this in a slightly different way is making sure that our software on the back end allows a user to take data from all those different types , whether it's UAV , handheld , mobile , mobile mapping , terrestrial laser scanner . Bring it all together and we did a project .

We did a project recently this is not scripted , by the way , mel , this is just me coming and we did a project last year , um , in india , as with the heart , with the hexagon capability center and um , we did this project called kutub shahi , which is this 15th century tomb , and it was done with the blk to fly the , to go the blk 360 in the rtc , and

we're now starting . You might have seen some images on social media , but you know it , it's just a really lovely project to see how it's all come together . And then , yeah , yeah , and then then they're all different . Yeah , they're all slightly different accuracy , so sometimes you do have to bear that in mind .

But then we bring it into something like reality cloud studio and go right , give me a mesh of all of this data all at once . Yes , you go , and it does it now . So I've , you know , I've .

I guess there's this kind of siloed mentality of I'm an I'm a uav operator , I use handheld and it and it's all just washed away as people start bringing these sensors together . So I think that's a big part of you know , the future is just allowing the freedom of customers to bring us , you know that data all into one place .

How do you yeah , listen , yeah , uh , do you know I'll ? I can probably talk to you for hours . I'll try and I'll try and limit it , but what's what ? Yeah , I'll . Basically , you know , we're in a situation now where we actually have um , an ai hub .

Right , so we have an ai hub at the kind of um you know , the corporate level , and the ai hub is there to kind of look all of the technologies that are there , understand how we can integrate it with existing solutions and then productize it .

Yeah , so we , you know things like you know things like you know , like you said , machine learning and one of the big pushes for us is around , you know and I've got to be careful what I say here but yeah , there's one of the big . One of the big things is around classification and segmentation .

So so it's and it's not just classification for classification's sake , it's how do we then use that classification to facilitate automated scan to plan or scan to BIM ? How do we use that segmentation data and instancing of those segments ? This is like counting of windows , counting of doors or whatever to then facilitate faster modeling or faster analysis .

Or you know how do we use it . You know we're using it a lot for cleaning . So we actually now have like a noise , yeah , like , yeah , like a noise level . So we have a noise classification to remove moving objects from stuff . So that's just one push .

But what we're also seeing now is , you know there's tools from , for example , meta that they'll release in in in a , in a commercially free uh offering . If that makes it , you don't have to pay licensing or anything , um , and then you look at it . Okay , well , how can I use this ?

How can I deploy this in our products and microsoft the same have some too around . You know doing some really cool stuff around , like optical character recognition and things like that .

So , and there's also some other stuff that's happening which would just blow your mind , which I can't talk about , but you're just looking at when you know it's , it's , it's and I said this before it's as much about working with what we have now , but it's also looking at a sensor and saying how can we extend the life of this sensor even though a new one

might not be released for two or three years ? So , you know , in real terms , there's this whole kind of and this is fine to discuss but this whole project around like beautification of the data , how do we make it look the best we possibly can ? That doesn't necessarily have to rely on the sensors that are already in the system .

We can use tools outside to do that . So for me , there's a big push there of you know , I guess it's just about working more smartly . Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , that's fair , yeah , no .

And the thing is , what's really interesting is obviously you know you develop something and it doesn't just stand still is what what's really interesting is obviously you know you develop something and it doesn't just stand still .

You know it because , because we're constantly training the algorithms on new data we're able to go , okay , well , here's a classification model for indoor construction , here's here's one for outdoor construction , and you kind of you're actually able to tailor those models specifically to use cases to the point where you know we , we use the same , what we call the point

cloud classification module across lots of products in the cloud , in desktop . How do we then tailor that ? So it might be that you're , you know you're using the Pegasus office software for mobile mapping . You only need access to , you know , classification for street furniture or you know . So there's different use cases .

But what I love about our approach is that we do have this module that then can just kind of move around , whether it's field , desktop or cloud . We should be able to use it in different places . But you're right , it just goes back to how quickly can we get to an end result or the analysis . Yep , yeah , yeah , I mean , it always comes .

It just comes down to efficiency . Like you just said , it's just how much money can I save , how much time can I save ? That's it . Yeah , that's what that you know when you go into a meeting with a ceo or a cco , that's you know . That's well , see how , I'm sorry , that's what they're going to be asking for . Yeah , what , what's ? What's in line ?

How much money am I saving doing this ? Yeah , yeah . So I think the biggest , the biggest thing comes from the fact that you know you have these big companies and they're looking over the fence and going , oh , they're doing that , we should be doing this .

But , um , you know , when we start looking at again , let's just say big corporate entities yeah , they are , a lot of them are doing it and some of them , some of them are having work done by people using reality capture and they're not even aware . So , okay , you know this . This person wants a 3d model of this space .

Okay , well , that 3d model has been probably generated by someone going out and scanning , creating the bim , and you end up with the bim , but you don't know where all the rest of the data has gone , necessarily . So sometimes that you know , sometimes that's happening when you've got these contractors , you know the subcontractors working .

But what I would say is the why laser scanning is becoming , or reality capture is becoming , more important is because of the various different use cases of that data . So it's not just oh , okay , I want a refit of this factory . It's okay , I want a use cases of that data . So it's not just oh , okay , I want a refit of this factory .

It's okay , I want a digital representation of that factory that at any point in time , anyone in the organization can jump into . And let's say , we run segmentation and see every single fire hydrant in that whole building , for example . Or I want to use that same data to create an asset management database of everything in that building .

I want to use that same data to stream down into a CAD solution so I can start doing some digital floor plans or whatever . So I think really it's about reuse , it's about being intelligent with the data , but it always comes down to how much money am I going to save ?

So this big push now around automation and when we talk about , you know , we have any automatic registration , we have automatic meshing , classification . So it's , and the thing is it's not about removing people from the equation or having less people necessarily . It's just about doing things smarter and that's yeah , yeah , yeah .

I think the first thing to remember in that statement is that you know what we call building construction is probably our biggest segment that we sell to in from the reality capture division , uh , within our structures . So that to me sm smacks of a group of people that want to evolve their workflows .

Yeah , so , you know , we have these VDC , these virtual design construction teams , we have BIM managers . We have people already in the construction space who are trying to drive efficiencies because the margins in construction is so low . The margins in construction is so low , like this .

So well , yeah , in some cases you know , we've just lost a company in the uk , massive contractor in the uk , a few weeks ago the margins are so tight , so everything you can do to squeeze out the efficiencies , that's really where , um , you know , reality capture can come in .

And you know , going back to what you said earlier about , about sensor fusion , we've got a lot of customers now who are doing like these baseline surveys with with the capture concept , the capturing solution , and then they're using maybe a 360 degree camera on a helmet of a , of an operator , to go and do that kind of progress monitoring as follow-up .

So again , it's still reality capture . It's not a laser scanner , it's just another way of feeding into this living database . Um , so , you know , for me , I , I , just , I just see people now realizing and understanding the power . Now there's a lot of people out there who have .

You know , they're already 10 , 15 years into this journey , but there's also , like you said , there's a lot of people who aren't , for various reasons , and what it requires sometimes , you know , it's not always the vision of the people at the top , sometimes it's the vision of the person in the middle going , and we , you know , I used to call them a technical

Terry they're a technical Terry . Yeah , yeah , I'm going to say technical Tiana , so we have some balance . Yeah , I'm going to say technical Tiana , so we have some balance . But , yeah , realistically , it's that person who is the champion going . There's a better way of doing this .

And what I think where I think now the efficiency lies is saying , okay , well , we can improve this for you and we can also integrate into these other solutions for you . You know , out of the box , maybe we haven't got something , but you know there's apis and sdks available for you to go . Right , we can draw that data into your environment .

Um , so I think that's a big push as well is people understanding the power of that . And you know , you would not believe the number of people that have come to me since the launch of reality cloud studio and said can I have an api to stream that data into my custom platform you have built .

You know that , of course , they're probably using autodesk and bentley and these other solutions , but they've had to , through pressure within the business , kind of create their own platform . And now they're like right , okay , how can I draw this data from reality , cloud studio , for example . So I , yeah , hopefully that answers your question , mel .

I mean , it's a Exactly , yeah , yeah , exactly , exactly , yeah , yeah , exactly . And , and it's amazing when you start to , I was on the phone this morning with a company , sure , remain nameless , but they have developed their own gis system which is tied to our data through very simple kind of url links .

But that's what they've , that's what they've done because they just the necessity was there to develop the platform . There wasn't anything that existed that did it . So , um , yeah , yeah , yeah , but but for us , you know , the benefit for us is , yes , we can go , yeah , that data we can , we can make , we can make a .

So , yeah , and on the heritage preservation side and that's my background , that's where I came from yeah , all I will say is you know , as geopolitical conflicts arise and environmental pressures arise , then there's even more impetus to make sure that this , this , you know , this information is recorded .

And that's where we , you know , this is why we did this project in india , because we were talking to the local governments and and they're all you know , imagine the size of india , right , you've got a billion , 1.2 billion people , you've got hundreds of thousands of sites and monuments and I would imagine maybe a tiny fraction are actually recorded in the right

way . So you , you go into these , these guys , and go look , if you don't record this now , you'll have if , if a flood hits , if a mudslide comes , if got , lo and behold , you know the water level rises . Whatever , you need this record .

Um , and , and I think that's where , yeah , we've seen stuff like Notre Dame when it burned down , yeah , yeah , oh , yeah , he is , he is , yeah , yeah , yeah .

And and you know , you look at that data as someone who's come from that background and , yes , they could have had more data , they could have had more setups , they could have had infinitely more data , but they were working with the technology they had at the time and , unfortunately , the guy who collected it actually passed away before the fruition of that project

and he so , he , so that that data was effectively had to be granted by his estate once . He'd . You know , uh , once that .

But yeah , that was a really interesting uh project and and now , as they're building it , it's all being documented the whole time because they're doing it from a construction management point of view , but they're also doing it from the point of view of , okay , we've got an actual as-built . This is the as-built .

If this , god forbid , happens again , we can recreate it . Yeah , you're good man , amen , thank you , thank you , thank you , thank you , thank you , thank you . I mean , I'll go back to my , I'll go back to my original comment . Really , in in that , you know what are we doing really , with our , our collection devices ? We're creating a surface representation .

Yeah , we're not . You know , yes , we do have some technologies that that sees through surfaces , like we have gpr technology and you know that that exists . But in real terms , we are giving , we're giving the flesh to the skeleton . I've never used that phrase before , but I quite like it , yeah .

So , yeah , we bring the flesh to the skeleton , and the skeleton is the stuff that , on the surface , looks pretty dull like it's data , it's databases , it's assets , it's links , it's IoT sensors , it's the mechanics in the background that work , but we have products within our manufacturing intelligence group .

We have products in our enterprise asset manager management group which effectively and and the ali team as well , sorry the asset life cycle intelligence group they have info , they have tools which will bring that all together .

So I was just on a call with someone who works in the eam group and we were just discussing how do we integrate reality cloud studio with that software . So we already have a link between , uh , true view cloud , but now it's like , okay , well , true view cloud is like a two and a half d .

How do we move to a full 3d representation and then embed it with all the back from EAM ? So that's happening . We already have an integration with what's called SDX2 , which is our cloud platform for primarily like process plan and chemical side of the business , exactly .

So we have the central source of truth , they have the central database of truth in terms of , you know , that information . How do we bring them together ? And that's really , I want to say it's a challenge . But it's not so much a challenge because we've now got the various APIs to allow us to bring that all together .

But you know , I quite like that analogy , that we're kind of the wrapper to this central data . And yeah , I'm not saying that I'm not concerned with that data , but I'm not an expert when it comes to enterprise asset management . I've got there's teams of people who are experts . They want to be able to bring our data in and go right .

Okay , this is how we fuse it together and that , for me , is a big part of the future making the data intelligent . What is the metadata ? So a big part of the push going forward is we've talked about AI , a lot of the stuff .

There's a couple of people working in projects from the ALI team of actually using that scan data and the panoramic imagery to automatically extract all the P and ID values and then feed them back into the digital twin . So it's like this symbiosis of the of the two types of technologies kind of working together is is probably the .

You know it's a complex way of describing it , but you know , at the end of the day , a digital twin is not just scan data , it's it's it's the engine inside Um and then that kind of fuels the whole operations and maintenance aspect of any build , whether it's brownfield , greenfield .

So , yeah , I think there's a big story to unpack there and and , like we just said , people do it differently in each organization . That means there's no cookie cutter version that goes right . This is how you do it . So there's um , and some people have legacy tools that they've built over 20 , 30 years that you have to then try and work .

So you know it takes a lot to move an organization who's been you know , he's very big who's been using something and entrenched for a long time . How would you move them to a new platform ? It's know he's very big , who's been using something and entrenched for a long time . How would you move them to a new platform ? It's a big ask .

Can I say yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , mm-hmm , mm-hmm . Okay , that's a good one and I haven't thought about it . So that's , you put me on , put me in the spot . So the first , the first thing I would say is be under no illusion that this is this is really really hard . Right it .

With the right team and with the right people and with the right discussions and with the right support , it can be an easy process to to start working with it . What I , what I would also say is you know , this doesn't have to be hit the ground running , let's .

You know no , pick a pilot project , start small and understand what other and understand what are the pitfalls and , as I said , your particularly bespoke solution that you're using in your organization . Maybe there are a few little hurdles that we need to get around to make it work smoothly . But reality capture doesn't have to be difficult . That's the first thing .

It doesn't have to be hard . Yes , there's cost . Of course there's cost , you know , of course there's , because it's bringing in new technology . But you know , at the end of the day , I am pretty much sure that nearly a hundred percent of the people that we sell to make good on their investment from , from investing in reality capture .

Um , you know , most people have a write-off over three to five years . And , um , you know , most people , you know , like we see with a lot of these companies now , it's not just one scanner in one location , it's like okay , I've got five factories across the US , I want scanners in all these locations , boom .

So there's an element to you know , once you get swept up in it and you realize the power that it brings , there's this just kind of like cascade , snowball effect of okay , we can use the data in all these different ways and I think that's that's really , again , part of the advice of think outside I hate the phrase think outside the box of this is just for

this purpose . How cool , yeah , yeah , yeah . Training , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , exactly , and I think that's and that's really okay . So that would be my key takeaway if people manage to get to the end of the podcast , well done , fantastic . But yeah , yeah , maybe they'll use AI to pull out the foot of the summary . I don't know .

But you know , in real terms , I want to make this technology as accessible as possible and that's really why I , you know , going back to when you asked about RealityCaptureGuy , the reason why that brand kind of exists is to advocate for the technology and make it accessible . And , yeah , you can make it as difficult as you want .

But actually , the reason why we have a blk 360 with a really interesting um entry point in terms of price is to attract that , you know , that prosumer type customer . Yes , we do have an rtc . Yes , we have a p series . Yes , we have a mobile mapping system that costs anywhere between , you know , 300 to 700 000 euros or whatever it is .

There's , there's something for everyone on that spectrum . Now , right down to the point of , you know , like you said , field 360 . You can use your lidar on your phone to collect the data . You can start at that level if you want to .

So you know that would be for me is uh , you know the key takeaway is you know you can start at that level if you want to . So you know that would be for me is uh , you know the key takeaway is you can make this as hard or as easy as you want , but at the end of the day , I would say the technology is not going away . Yeah , that's , that's the .

You know it's not going away . It's going to evolve and and you know , I get a little glimpse at the roadmap and where things are going and it's very exciting . You know it's right .

Yeah , yeah , we um , this is , I guess I wouldn't say we're late to the party here , but it's kind of something that , just as we expanded into the public safety market more than ever , there was a real , a real kind of question around it . So , on some of our devices not all yet , but it's part of the roadmap is we have data hashing .

Yeah , so you have , you effectively have a , an encryption key which allows you to unlock that data when you get into the software and it also logs all the changes and things you may have done to that data throughout that whole process . So that's one aspect .

When it comes to cloud technology Reality , cloud Studio we're just in the final stages of SOC2 , iso certification as well , and also single sign-on . So in terms of how that integrates within internal systems , that's a big push . So I think , saying that , what's really interesting is it hasn't stopped selling to some companies .

So some companies may say you need these certifications , otherwise I can't invest . Okay , well , we will bring those certifications to you in Q4 this year and you will be able to buy . But some customers have gone ahead with password protected . We've done all the penetration tests and hacker tests that you can put in .

So there's a lot of work that goes into making sure that data is secure . But I particularly like the data hashing one because I think that's a real secure . But I particularly like the data hashing one because I think that's a real .

You know that that's device level security where if that usb stick gets stolen , it can't be that data can't be used anywhere else . You have to be able to have the key to unlock the data and work with the data and also get through , so that you know it sounds morbid , but you know it comes to a particularly gruesome murder scene .

You don't really want that getting out to the general public . So data hashing is important there . But likewise , as we move forward , it could be just as important that your nuclear factory that you are building is completely locked down too . And what's interesting is I'm now dealing with a couple of nuclear companies in Europe and they are cloud native businesses .

So they've actually made the decision from day one of their inception that we will be cloud . And you're going oh , but this is nuclear . And they go that's fine , because all of the appliances are in place to make sure that data is as secure as it possibly can be . Yeah , and we're making a big play there . You know that for us .

You know how do you increase automation , how do you add more AI , how do you speed up processing ? You parallelize it , you use the power of the cloud . So we know that people in our industry have really good computers . We know they have . You know lots of knowledge around how to get the best from those machines .

But if we can cloudify stuff and let them do it in half the time a fifth the time tenth the time , then I'm sure that they will appreciate that as well . But then with that comes , like you said , the security considerations as well . Yeah , absolutely . So hopefully that gives you a flavour of what we're doing and where we're going .

I could , but I'd probably lose my jobs , so I'm not . I mean I can as as broad as possible , that's fine . So I think I think a lot more around the cloud . I think , yeah , there'll be a big , there'll be a big power play there in terms of the cloud and I think what you will .

You've started to see it but a little bit more around cloud connectivity of devices as well . So you know you can , for example , I've done it you go out with a BLK360 , with BLK Live , with a 5G connection on your phone .

You can send that to Reality Cloud Studio automatically , register , automatically , mesh , stream that down into CloudWorks so you can start seeing how okay every project I know not every project is going to run late , but you imagine there's maybe , for example , let's say , arguments like there's four or five people out on site with their devices , different devices , maybe

someone's got to be okay to go , maybe someone's got an RTC . How can we get that data centralized and working together so that you know okay , you've captured that bit , you've captured , there's a hole there . Who's going to go and fill that hole ? We push it to the cloud . Okay , here's the BIM , here's the point cloud . Let's do the analysis .

You know what's the progress on it , what's the deviations on it ? How do we automate the reporting on the back end ? So , again , it's all just leveraging the power of all these different technologies to make well , to remove the friction . Right , that's it remove the friction and make it as seamless as possible . Yeah , yeah , thank you , thank you for having me .

Cheers , mel . Thank you , no worries , no worries . Cheers , niall , thank you for having us . Do I need to do anything ? My son ? It says it's nearly uploaded , so I guess not . Okay , now , jenny , definitely Jenny . Okay , now , jenny , definitely jenny , who I met in person last week , which was great .

So , yeah , just whatever you said can't be as bad as last week when I was at intergeo and for some reason , I said the word elephants during one of my presentations and I can't even remember what I said something about . I can't remember . I was talking in front of all the dealers from the eastern central european region and I just went .

Elephants just came into the , into the stopped and I went not elephants and , and I and I just started cracking . I could not stop laughing . I was just like i'm'm so sorry , guys . I had to compose myself and start again . So Bye . Oh god , oh dear , they're the right .

Yeah , well , if you follow our prime minister , last week , he said about talking about Israel and Gaza Strip and he said about I can't even say it myself-