Hi everyone , this is Mel Wallace and welcome to BIM for All . So here's the million dollar question why do AEC firms outsource ? Now , there's a number of reasons why a lot of groups or a lot of firms outsource key services . One of the primary motivations for outsourcing is to reduce costs .
By outsourcing certain functions , companies can lower their labor costs or avoid expenses that are related to hiring , training and retaining full-time employees .
Another reason why AEC firms outsource , particularly BIM services is usually to access specialized skills and expertise , Because outsourcing allows companies to tap into specialized talent and capabilities that they may not have available internally . They can also leverage the knowledge and experience of outsourcing providers who specialize in specific functions .
They can even stay up to date on the latest technologies and the best practices without having to invest in training . Outsourcing also allows you to focus on your core competency . By simply delegating non-core functions to external providers , companies can concentrate on internal resources and energy , on their primary business activities .
It also gives you increased flexibility and scalability . Now that you can outsource , you can actually add new skills , new resources in-house , without a long-term commitment . And the last point here by leveraging these benefits of outsourcing , companies can improve their competitiveness . They can reduce their costs and focus on growing the firm with innovative solutions .
You see , companies only pay for specific BIM services that they need , rather than maintaining a full-time in-house team . We are thrilled to present today's episode titled Broken Blueprints . So join us today as we explore this intriguing theme and insights that this captivative topic has to offer . So let's get after it .
Welcome to the BEM for All podcast . Here's our host , Mel Wallace .
Hi everyone , Welcome to the BEM for All conversation . Today we're meeting with Mr Ankit Kansara . He's the founder and CEO of Virtual Building Studios and we want to get his insight on how we can best decode the persistent challenges of outsourcing in the AEC industry . And , Kit , welcome to BIM for All .
Thank you so much , Mel , for hosting me here .
Glad that you're here . I know that you're a busy guy . You've got a lot going on . As a matter of fact , it's a little after 7.30 at your time right compared to mine , which is first thing in the morning so I want to just jump right into this Ankit For the listening audience .
Can you share a little bit about your background and what led you to create Virtual Building Studio ?
So myself I'm an architect , graduated in 2007 from India , from the Gujarat University . So I got gold medal for my academic performance . And then , after I worked in UK and Singapore , and when I was in Singapore , I got an opportunity to work with Singapore government on implementing BIM .
That was the first time in the world , the world's first government , who implemented BIM across all their submitters and online portals .
So that's how I got a chance to meet ACOM and they wanted to start I mean , we I was a kind of an implementer with implementing BIM in ACOM because Singapore government was giving three things so subsidiaries 50% on your hardware , 50% on your software and 50% on your manpower cost okay .
And every company was like jumping and saying , okay , we are ready to implement bim , this is something new , cool . And I got a chance to work with a comp . They were we were really struggling , you know training those uh uh old school team members because beam was completely new and people were really really uh into care and into their own stuff .
Right , they're really not ready to embrace this new technology . And I got a chance to work with a com . We had a good . I had a good , good connection with some of the top level guys .
I come to know that after three months of implementation it was not really uh , everybody was not really into beam and they decided that you know , uh , they are not able to do the particular implementation with the current manpower .
And they decided that one of the director came to me and say , hey , akit , why don't you go back to india and and and find some troops like yours , who is really young and ready to start with this new technology like Beam , brevit Workflows ? And I was like , no , I don't want to make my life hell because I'm earning in dollars , right ?
Nobody wants to go back and earn in rupees . And we had a series of discussions in three months and finally I was ready with some terms and conditions and that's how I jumped into this industry .
So I started Virtual Building Studio , because I started with a single guy as a virtual building studio and we scaled this team from one person to the 30 person within the three years and we call it a built , operate and transfer . So we build the team , we operate it and then we transfer . Built , operate and transfer .
So we build the team , we operate it and then we transfer . Now this small team turns out to be a big , huge global delivery center of AECOM , which has more than 2,000 people Right . So that's an experience . That's how I jumped into this journey of BIM .
Okay , that makes a lot of sense .
So you started off , as you said , as an implementer of the BIM process and then that's where it opened the door for you to actually get your own group team to work with AECOM and get your own group team to work with AECOM and I think everybody in the construction world knows who AECOM is and what they do and what their impact is on the market .
Let me just ask some follow-up to that In your experience , because you've done this from the infancy all the way to the point where you have this massive team .
What are some of the most common challenges and this is not specific to AECOM , but just from an AEC industry standpoint what are some of the most common challenges that firms face when they're outsourcing BIM services ? That's my favorite question you don't have two days to answer that , right , so in five minutes or less . What do you think ?
Give me your top three .
See the top three . The challenge in outsourcing is culture , fit , quality and maintaining standards , and the third one is data . Okay , right , so when I say data it means third one is all about your control over your data , control over your previous .
These three are the top major challenges and the top two is the biggest one , I would say , because you can manage data . You can have multiple softwares and new technologies are in place you can use to control your data . But what about having the culture fit in and what about having quality deliverables on time ?
You know these two things are the top most critical challenges for all of the clients across the globe you know , it's making sure they have the right quality deliverable .
One of the things you didn't say is communication gaps , and maybe that's part of the culture too , right ?
So typically , when we have conversations with clients and talk about outsourcing , there always comes down to the ability to communicate , particularly between Western firms and outsourcing partners in countries like India , for example , right , and outsourcing partners in countries like India , for example , right . No-transcript .
I think communication is key . If you're really not able to communicate well as per the Western standards , it's really a fact . The biggest problem every firm is facing is that the owner of that particular firm wants to save money . They want to leverage outsourcing , they want to leverage and scale up their overall game .
They want to level up the game , leverage and scale up their their overall game . They want to level up the game right . But when you delegate this task to your juniors or maybe your team members , they're really not ready to sacrifice , like you , to go and communicate in depth right .
To go and communicate with the guy who is speaking in a very different dialect , right . So that's how the communication is the biggest barrier . And then the team . So let's say , if the team is in us , they feel like you know , why should I sacrifice ? Or why ? Why should you know I put my too much time to explaining somebody what I'm trying to convey .
So communication is the biggest challenge and biggest hurdle I know . However , technical jargons and technical words are same same across the globe , so it's not a big deal , but though , communication is a big problem .
Amy , something you said a second ago about quality control right . Why do firms struggle with maintaining project control and consistency when outsourcing ?
you know what are your thoughts on this so this is how I thought and I learned from my experience working with these big giants . What I learned from my experience is when you have your gladiator team , you really not need to worry about your quality .
The two things really affects the quality , and this two underlying thing is one is your technical knowledge right ? So when I'm saying technical knowledge means if I'm doing something in US , I should have knowledge of that technical knowledge how it works in the US , the constructability in the US right , the standards right .
The second thing is all about the standard practices , which in most of the cases , the firms who really want to outsource they're not ready to teach to the outsourcing partner about the standard techniques . I would say the standard things or the standard practice is what they used to do , so they really have to invest themselves .
If they invest themselves , I think they'll get the good quality in return . So you have to be patient when you really outsource .
Right , right , so there's an onboarding process in between the Western firm and when they work with your organization , that there's a learning process , but there's also an onboarding process so that standards and methodologies are shared and understood by both parties , right ?
correct . So I I call it this way , mel , just to understand the audience , audience , easily . If you learn martial art , if you see bruce lee , right , fighting on tv , you just see it and you start fighting on the street . You get kicked out for sure . Right , right so you really need . So it's like in martial art you really need to master the skills .
Yes , so outsourcing is a skill . You really give some time to master the skills of outsourcing .
Once you are mastered how you want to outsource , you can really really be good at this , because you know that billion dollar companies maybe it's a banks , maybe it's a hospital , or maybe it's a hospital or maybe it's different services Everybody outsource , even airports , right , right , even the airlines .
So everybody outsource their typical tasks , or I would say , repetitive tasks . It's easy , but you have to understand , you have to learn this skill and then you have to outsource .
Okay , okay Again , just kind of going back to what you said at the opening of this Ankit , is that culture , culture plays a big part of this right . So , understanding culture or , let me ask it this way , what role does culture play in a successful BIM outsourcing relationship ?
I think culture plays 100% , even not 100 , 200 percent role . Why I'm saying this ? Because culture is the most important . So here is my example .
So if I'm building a hospital , whom I'm going to find as an architect or whom I'm going to find as a contractor , right , if I want to build a hospital myself , as an owner , I go and find an architect who has done the hospital . I go and find a contractor who has built a hospital before .
So they know that they have that experience , they know the challenges before building right . So culture really plays a major role .
So when I say culture , you have to find the right outsourcing partner who are really good at that particular skills , what you want to outsource right culture is not just from from a , I guess , a a geolocation , but it's really the culture of the project as well that plays exactly .
It's not a geolocation .
Sometimes , you know companies say come and say that we are iso xyz , we are a country-oriented company , we have this much of checklist everything , but your partner may not have the same thing . You really need to invest on them .
Or you have to understand your code of culture and you have to understand the code of culture of your outsourcing partner and then then you can match whether they are the right match or not . Okay , okay . So outsourcing is . Outsourcing is like a marriage man . It's not like a transactional relationship . I call my clients . It's not a transactional relationship .
Now , in a Western world everybody thinks it's a transactional . It means they come to you for one project , maybe one or a couple of projects , and they never come to you and you're not going to get the right kind of output .
You're absolutely right , because so many times different groups that we work with as an organization , when we get into the conversation of how do we make this outsourcing relationship work , a lot of clients and again I think , the construction industry as a whole , because of the way it's set up lowest bidder wins right .
I mean , it's all about , you know , getting to the bottom of the cost structure . Sometimes that mentality translates into finding the cheapest outsourcing partner .
It doesn't make a good relationship if it's only about the transaction and not about the culture of making sure it's the right fit , making sure your group has the experience to actually do the work that you are looking for them to do . So here's kind of a follow-up to that . And , Kit , is that , From a technology standpoint , right ?
So I want you to put your technology hat on for a second . What processes do you think could address some of the current shortcomings in BIM outsourcing ? Now , I know we're all about technology , we're all about Revit , we're all about BIM , we're all about laser scanning and AI and all these things . We're all about laser scanning and AI and all these things .
But what improvements in technologies or even processes do you think that could address some of the current shortcomings in BIM outsourcing ?
So , from my extensive experience , I'm writing a book called Outsource or Out and I'm writing this framework how you can find the right outsourcing partners and here is the glimpse of some of the points which really helps your audience to find out the right outsourcing partner .
So , instead of typical , instead of typical online meetings and just asking for portfolio , here is the framework that everyone should follow . So number one thing is for outsourcing , you have to understand in your mind that what is your objective for outsourcing this activity ? Right ?
That's the first question that every outsourcer has to ask themselves what's my objective by this , what I want to achieve , what is my budget ? What , how long I want to do this ? If it's a short-term , transactional , it's completely fine . You can go to any vendor and get it done , right .
But if it's a long term and you are you want to find out a scalable solution . Right , partner , you want to be competitive in the market . Then first three question is about yourself , means why I want to outsource , what is my budget and how long I want to achieve this goal . Once you have this in place . They know that .
Okay , I want to do outsourcing to find , let's say , my remote team of six people which gonna help me in my search , right , and then you have to talk to your outsourcing partner or you have to search your outsourcing partner based on what you need .
So , for example , virtual Building Studio we are expert in providing architectural services , so we provide dedicated resources to architects . So my resources are 100% trained , 100% top 1% trained us trained architects . They are chartered architects in asia maybe in india , manila , philippines , another part of world but they are trained on us based standards .
We have chartered architects hired on our payroll in us who train them .
So you have to just go and find out the right kind of outsourcing partner whether they are compete , whether they are really good at this particular thing , whether they have a competency or not right , just filter out based on that do not go to the partners who say they do everything right .
You cannot be the master of everything .
And I've seen this kind of people who really mislead everyone by saying that they do everything and when you go to them , they do everything . They are right , they are correct , but they are not master of anything .
So you're not gonna get good tea , you're not gonna get the quality at the end , and you struggle and you fed up and one day you feel that outsourcing is not right and you completely avoid outsourcing . But that's not true . So you have to focus first , pre-question yourself and then next find the partner who has the right competencies for the task .
Ask about their clients , ask about their testimonials , ask about their processes , why they are great at this particular thing , and whoever says they are great at everything , just reject them without even thinking about this thing .
Yeah , you should run away . Yeah , that's a great point , because a lot of groups to your point , they do it all . They do , you know , architectural , structural , mechanical , electrical , plumbing , fire protection , they create digital twins . They do everything .
To your point is , you're not a master of the different spaces that you're playing in because you're the jack of all trades . I think that's usually why people go down that road .
Share with us and not to get into names , because I know we're all under NDAs and we can't disclose clients' names but share with us an example of a successful BIM outsourcing relationship and what you did , what your firm did , to make it work yes , so right now we have partner with more than 40 plus architectural firms in US and we have our dedicated resources
working for them since more than like two plus years , three plus years , somebody like five plus years .
Right , the the core thing in in in any successful relationship . I personally see two things . So first thing I see is trust between those partners and the second thing is your persistence , training and patience . Right , because when you have patience , I see it's .
It's it's difficult to get somebody who is quick , so if you onboard somebody in your office , he won't be ready from the day one or day two and and and and do all the tasks as per your expectation . It takes two months . So in real outsourcing terms , it takes like a couple of months . I call it hiccups .
When you have your resources , get ready , they understand your standards , your team . It's an on-the-go process . Yeah , so you have to be patient , right , for the first two months , I would say , and then you should be ready to train your team . I mean you should at least spend 40 hours of time training your team .
I mean you're out choosing partner about your standard , about your processes , about how you guys do quality control I mean your quality assurance and quality control things Right , and make sure that you you , when you hire somebody you have the right kind of interview process when you hire your out choosing partner .
Once you have done down the road , if you have done your task correctly , like I know that , okay , this is the right fit partner for me . This is the right team members and I'm ready to invest my 40 hours and patience for first couple of months . You will be ready , man .
You definitely leave the rewards after two months and that's my promise , and we have n number of testimonials on our website . You can go and check and even you can talk to those guys right , that why you guys are more successful rather than any of the companies , just because they are ready to implement . They are ready to implement the framework .
I'm telling you right , and they understood that they really have to give time . It's not transactional . It's not like you just give a walk and expect 100% in return . It's not transactional . It's not like you just give a walk and expect 100 in return .
it's not gonna possible shoot the construction drawings to you and ask for a bim model in two weeks , right ? So it's not . It's not that kind of relationship . Yeah no , that that makes sense . That makes sense .
I think you know , as you look ahead and and particularly as we're getting ready to go and into a new year , right , what's the future I future , I mean of BIM outsourcing . What is your take on the future of BIM outsourcing for the AEC industry ?
See , if you see , man , if you read the recent reports on US market or on Australia market , I think 60% people they want to work their own , they really not want to go with the traditional jobs , right . So everybody wants to become a freelancer , right ? So it's not only in US , but all across the world . So , if you ask me , I'm particularly .
I believe that outsourcing is increasing because geographical talents are available everywhere , right , and the imbalancing currencies right , the imbalance in economy that really gives a chance to the developing countries to participate in this race and show their talents and do this kind of task , which is really a repeatable task . Anybody can do it .
Right , you really need your team to do a core task which really generates some revenue for you , but there are n number of typical tasks which is right now taking , you know , yeah , yes , taking over all this task .
The similar way , I think the outsourcing has a bright future , no matter what , no matter what anybody thinks , but outsourcing is definitely going to grow a lot . Everybody , if you see this , this free . I call it freelance economy , right .
So economy is getting free and everybody gets a chance to due to this technology , I mean the new technology , like we are doing . Organization , yeah , we're all connected , all dots are connected and everybody's connected . Everybody gets a chance to work . So I think it's going to grow . Nobody should avoid outsourcing in their firm not at all .
Otherwise they're going to miss a lot more thing than they thought .
So this is a great segue to , kind of , my next question what advice would you give to an AEC firm that hasn't stuck their toe in the outsourcing water yet ? They're still considering it , particularly as we get into and deal with labor shortages ? I mean there's a shortage right now in the market of architects .
There's a shortage of high-skilled engineers and especially those that are able to work within the BIM process . What advice would you give to firms that are considering outsourcing their BIM services for the first time ?
So I want to tell them two things . If they fail by choosing some wrong partner , don't worry , go ahead and try the new one , right ? The second advice is it's a skill , as I said , so don't worry . I mean , you don't get things done in first , go , so be patient and stay with your outsourcing partner .
You're going to definitely get the right outputs Not maybe in a month too , but maybe in the third . After you know two months , you will start getting the right outputs . And the third advice is never , ever , think that outsourcing is misleading . I mean never , ever , think that outsourcing is done . Outsourcing is not out right .
Outsourcing is going to be the main theme anyway in future , because economy is prosperous , everything is open and and just try , just learn the right framework , learn the skills and try it out . You'll definitely get a success .
Very good , and here's the last questions , because I know we're almost out of time , man kid . But what role do you think and this is more , I guess , on your production team what role do you think education and training , particularly from the production side , plays in improving the success rate of BIM outsourcing projects ?
And let me just say this maybe it's on both sides . Right , you know education and training , but what role do you think that plays in the success of BIM outsourcing projects ?
So here's the example . I want to just tell you that how you can make outsourcing really successful . We work with one of the company in US . So they offer their team to come to US for one month .
Ok , they go , they take them on a site , they show them how the constructability issues the common mistake they used to do they give them some trainings , they make them really aware with the culture , the clients , the on-site issues and everything .
And then they also come to India , meet this team , stay here for two weeks and again they reinforce everything what they taught these guys right , and this is how you can really exchange the culture . This is how you can really build a team and , as I said , it's not transactional .
You really need to put and invest some time , energy and money in terms of training .
Right . So it really is more of a collaboration . It's more of a collaboration . Yeah , it's not a transactional relationship , it's a collaborative relationship . So that makes total sense . That makes total sense . So again , ankit , we thank you .
Thank you so much for your time , thank you for sharing your insights on this topic and why outsourcing has often fallen short in the AEC industry . Now , ankit , how can people get in touch with you if they want to get more information about your organization or firm ?
They can give me a call . They can give me an email . So my email ID is ankitkansara at virtualbuildingstudiocom . They can go to the virtualbuildingstudiocom and be in touch with me , and sooner we will have this book released .
So that gives you an immense guideline about how to do , how to find the right outsourcing partner , and there are a number of interviews of from the big giant companies so they can just go into their mind and go into this inside and learn about our social Well , good , I'm available on LinkedIn to say hi , I'm more than happy to help anybody .
Absolutely . Hopefully I'll get one of those first copies of your upcoming book . I want to make sure I get a signed copy . I'm going to hold you to that , Definitely going to hold you to that For sure , absolutely Wankin . I'm going to hold you to that . No for sure .
Absolutely Well Ankit again , thank you for your time today and to our listeners , thank you for joining another episode of BIM for All and until next time , always keep moving forward .
Thank you , everyone Appreciate your time . Man Appreciate everyone . Thank you , everyone Appreciate your time . Man Appreciate everyone .
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