By Billy Cunningham. The great American.
Joining us now is Connie Pillach, the Helmbi County prosecutor. And Connie Pillach welcome again to the Bill Cunningham Show. And before we talk about Hinton, which you know is another big story. In my interview with Sarah, we talked. She talked about how one murder case is treated differently than the other, how her husband's murder Patrick was treated
differently than the murder of a police officer. Can you articulate as to why your office calls the death penalty to be issued in one case and not the other.
Well, thanks so much for having me again, Bill, I really appreciate you including me and letting me talk about the stuff that's going on in our office. I think I put all the information about the reason for the death penalty and the deputy who was slain case, and there's of course very specific provisions of law that allow for that. But for the for Miss Henting, Miss Henninger's call a case of her husband, I just got to let that play out in the courts.
All right, as far as h as far as that is it a policy decision or this is something I've read some commentary on social media that many times the system values the life of a police officer as we should above the life of may I use the term civilian. And when the police officer is murdered, you're murdering not just a person, but the representative of us. And that's
a very serious matter. Did that play into it that some social media might say, you know, she'll go after a cop killer more than she'll go after just a murder.
Is that part of it?
No, No, there's no policy like that. These are done by a case by case basis and also in accordance with the law and what the law allows or requires me to do.
Okay, let's move on to the hinting matter.
You had an extensive news conference yesterday and as far as Rodney Hinton Junior and of course his murder, and then also you had the non indictment of the police officer who killed Ryan Hinton. What were the two or three key facts in your mind, Connie Pillage, is about why you did not indict the police officer. Can you tell the American people two or three good reasons you decided not to do it?
Absolutely, and you know, and of course it was a very extensive press conference yesterday. But look, we looked at, first of all, what the law requires, and the United States Supreme Courts gives a very specific guidance that have been refined over the last bunch of decades how we make these decisions. And one of the big things was that we have to view this evidence in the eyes of what one would call a reasonable officer at the scene, in his shoes, through his eyes, and with the knowledge
that would have been known at the time. The second thing is when we looked through the body camped footage, we saw the scene, we saw the things that transpired, We heard one of the officers alert everybody there that there was a gun. And the third thing were the
statements of the witnesses. The Cincinnati Police interviewed the witnesses that were there, and the interviewed some of the passengers of the vehicle they were also witnesses to So those are three things combined that led me to make that decision.
Connie kellych prosecutor, you made the statement yesterday that the officer officer A and it's going to be said, his name's going to be revealed soon by civil lawsuits by Fanon Rucker.
But nonetheless, I'll call him.
Officer A perceived the gun was pointed at him when he fired the shots. The video, I think is unclear one way or another. I've watched it probably ten times. You probably have watched it one hundred times.
Do you clearly.
See the gun of Ryan Hinton, pointed out the police officer.
Well, the thing we have to look at is what the law requires me to study, and that is that we have to put our review into the position of a reasonable officer at the scene and standing in the officer's shoes, running around the side of that dumpster, which is five feet wide, and seeing the young man running at him. The officer stated that he saw the weapon and he had about a half a second to make
a decision. He was he believed it was The Officer A believed the gun was in Rodney Hinton's hand and that it was pointing at him in what we call a bladed stance, and that was certainly he was put on the alert by one of the other officers who yelled, hey,
this guy's got a gun. He's got a gun. And we also had that corroborated by one of the witnesses in the in the in the vehicle and so when you have these kinds of events within literally for seconds, you can look at a body worn camera that has a wide angle lens and therefore distorts the spatial details of the scene. But you also have to understand there's more than body worn camera. There's there's what the officer believed he saw, what the other officer yelled about, there
being a gun. When these all things have to be taken in total, you can't just look at one simple thing, and that's what the Supreme Court tells us. You cannot look at one item. You got to look at all the circumstances.
And in the officer's mind, he believed, having heard he's got a gun. Gun, gun, gun, and he did not pull out his service weapon until after a fellow officer said he had a gun.
Is that correct?
Oh, yes, that's correct, and we have we have video evidence of that.
As far as the actual shots themselves, I had on Michael Wright, who's with the Cochrane Law firm. He's a he's a lawyer, along with Anon Rucker. Each of them have said that some young man, a teenager, should not be shot for stealing a car. And I'm thinking, well, that's a nice argument. In a closing statement. But that's not factually accurate. But how would you respond to some who say, like an On Rucker and Michael Wright, that this particular of Ryan Hinton was killed because he was
stealing a car? Is that factually accurate?
Well, that's no, it's not. But the whole situation's tragic. Bill. You know that some kid going down this path and getting having a gun, and it's all as the police chief said, when you mess around with stolen guns, a tragedy happens, and that's what happened here.
How relevant were the photos? I thought the photos you displayed yesterday were just It doesn't mean he's guilty or not guilty, but to have a at that point, I think he was seventeen years old. He turned eighteen a few days before he was killed. That he had in possession the actual gun found at the scene. Isn't that a rather important fact that we knew he had possession of the gun, He had possession of the gun a few days before, and the same gun was found at the scene.
Well, we did include that in the press conference, just to show that this was his gun, because that's what we found at the scene.
One other quar rush has risen from the other side, and that is. The day after the shooting, Chief of Police Teresa Thiji held a news conference and said that in this case, the officer shot mister Hinton, Ryan Hinton in the chest and the bullet came out the back as if they were facing each other. Number one, did you hear what you said at the news conference? Number two? Is that factually inaccurate?
I wasn't at the news conference, but I am aware of the coroner's report that showed the bullet entered in the side of the left side of his chest and exited the front of the chest. That's right, That's what we have. Those are the facts we rely on in this review.
Have you discussed this the chief of police THEIGI to say, hey, wait a minute, twenty four hours after this event kind of quiet things down, do we know what the facts are?
Have you said that to her?
No? No, But I do think she's bound by the collaborative agreement to have some sort of press conference within around twenty four hours of any critical incident like that. And I mean it's the chief is, as far as I compell, is trying to do the best you can and I can't tell her what to say as not her lawyer.
Yeah, As far as the other three individuals involved in this action, who as Jarell Austin and de Anthony Bullocks and Sincere Grigsby, did you give consideration to the activities that they engaged in? And by that I mean did they kind of identify the gun as being used by Ryan Hinton in the car? Did they say that was Ryan Hinton's gun or is that someone else's gun?
I can't tell you what witness said that, but somebody did see did describe Ryan's gun to us?
As far as the grandeury presentation, as you know that you don't have to present the case the grand jury. In fact, you can not present it. There's one prosecutor locally in Butler County, Mike Moser, who does present every police shooting to a grand jury. Other prosecutors in Claremont, Warren, and I know in Boone, Kenton, and Campbell they do
not present the case. Well, what is the fact that determines whether or not County Pillage will present or not present a police shooting to the grand jury in Hamley County.
Well, after our review, if I can't make a determined determination, then I will have to present it to grand jury. But in the four police involved shootings that we've had since I became prosecutor on January sixth, I was able to determine. I felt comfortable that I was doing the right thing in accordance with the law, and was able to make a decision.
You're not required by law to give it to the grand jury. Is that fair to say? There was also an interview conducted in which Fannon Rucker said that, among other things, we don't know the officer's background who killed Ryan Hinton. We know his jacket with the citizens Complaint authority with internal investigations is not empty, so he's kind of besmirching the character of officer. A did you take into account the history of the police officer when you decided not to cause his indictment.
No, I didn't think any of that was relevant.
As far as uh further investigation is this? Uh?
The matter is taken six weeks to get to get to this point. As far as you're concern, is this matter concluded relative to these officers? No other charges will be fought against any officers involved in this shooting of Ryan Hinton?
Is that correct?
Yes?
All right?
Uh?
Well, thank you. Uh.
And one thing that's gonna happen is I think sometimes the federal authorities may get involved in some of the police shootings. It's quite unlikely in this case for all kinds of reasons. But so far you've had four police shootings, which is quite unusual, and in your first five months in office. Uh, that's part of this part of the deal. Is there any connection. I watched the news conference. One of the reporters asked you, are these four events somehow
connected one to the other? Which I thought was kind of a stupid question, by the way, because they're completely unconnected. But if the message is sent by some that this prosecutor is gonna is gonna lean on the side of police when it comes to police shootings, I think that's incorrect. Every case stands on his own completely. I mean, every
every factual situation is completely different. But for those who say, our new new prosecutors got four of these, everyone's been absolved, Nune's percented to the grand jury, what's your response to that?
Well, look, I take these cases extremely seriously. Of the four off turn VOB shootings we've had, I personally responded to three of them and was able to look at the scene myself, and they're all different. They were caused by different people and under different circumstances. And I think my job is to look at what happened, apply the law as the State of Ohio and the United States and the Supreme Court telled me to do, and that's
what happened. I can't tell you what will happen the next time we have a critical incident like that, because I don't know the fact of that yet.
No, every case is determined by facts, application of the law, and none of the cases are conducted to each other. In fact, they're completely unconnected. Did you consult with other prosecutors in the region about whether to proceed to indictment or not? Was this crictly your decision? Did you talk with with any of the other prosecutors in the county?
Are well? I am. I am a member of the Ohio Prosecuting Attorneys Association, and all the members these are all the elected prosecutors in the state. I serve on four committees. So I have definitely been getting to know my colleagues across the state and learn the things that they've gone through. But what was most important to me here was my senior leadership team who worked very closely.
They worked really hard to put that presentation together. I when you saw all these photos, well those were one one hundredth of a second stops still shots of the video. They worked very hard to put that together for me so I could explain everything and so we could make a determination here. I based my decision on the scrutiny they gave and their recommendation to me, then my own review of what they've presented to me.
And a prosecutor, as you know, must only present cases of the grand jury if they believe a crime has been committed and they can get a conviction a trial. And I assume the fact you did not convene a grand jury to present the case in the case that based upon six weeks of hundreds of hours of work, split second videos down to pictures, forensic evidence. I think the County corner has given you all the toxicology or
whatever that. But by the way, did the toxicology show anything that Ryan hitting anything in his body or not?
You know, Bill, I don't remember, but it wouldn't make a difference in this case.
He could have been high as a kite. It's not relevant to him being shot. All right, Well, thank you Connie Pillage. Once again, We'll see what happens on the next I've had you on each time there's been a police shooting. I kind of hope there's no more police shootings. I kind of hope they're in but you never know.
Thank you. Thank you so much for getting with me. I appreciate you happing me on.
Connie Pillage, Thank you very much. Thank you. All right, let's continue with more.
There's the perspective of Connie Pillage, and I want to support her decision in this case one thousand percent because I understand there's money to be made by some lawyers who are acting as if they're aggrieved and they're going to go to the city of Cincinnati to seek money. And I'm referring specifically to Fanon Rucker and Michael Wright of the Cochrane Law firm, and who knows what the
city's going to do down the road. If in this case the city pays money, it's a slap in the face of the police force, because in this case, if this is not a justified shooting, then there can be none in Hambleton County. And I want to compliment Connie pillage in this case, and the other three for making the right decisions. So let's continue with more. And whether they can get money out of the city, that's likely. I'm willing to bet you hot fut Sunday right now
than the next one to three years. They pay the estate of Ryan Hitting some money. That's what the city tends to do. But in this case it was completely a justified police shooting. Let's continue with more. One twenty five Homeo Reds playing tonight, we hope based upon the weather A news radio seven hundred WLW