Hi, Billy cunning Him the Great American. Coming up later, of course is Reds Baseball. The Twinkies are in town. Red's one last night, Another big game tonight that tomorrow business special. Also in about one hour, Countie Pillach will be here, the Hemley County Prosecutor. But joining us now is is Sarah Herringer, and she's the widow of Patrick who was murdered on her about June the fourth. And Sarah, first of all, how you doing.
I am, I'm highly functional and hanging in there.
And you have your.
Bunny, Yeah, yep. I've got my therapy dog Ted. He's sleeping right now at my feet. So let's go back in time.
When did you meet Patrick?
I met Patrick when I first saw him on the streets. I met him in Colorado Springs, which is where I'm initially from, and he was stationed in the military there. And it was about twenty eleven and I saw him and I pointed out to a friend and I said, I'm going to marry that man.
Wait a minute, yes, and you were you were how old? About twenty twenty five?
I was about twenty five, yep.
And you saw Patrick and said, yeah, that's it. That's it. Wow, what was it about him?
He?
I mean, anyone who knew him would say, he just has this force that draws you in. He's very stands out in a crowd, has a presence about him. And I just saw him and it was truly love at first sight. And I know that's really cheesy, but it's one hundred.
Percent of tame. Sometimes it happens, it does. Yeah, as far as his military service, what can you tell me about Pat's sacrifice for the nation?
Yeah, he's a two bronze Star award also combat I had. You know, he didn't really talk a whole lot about all of the accolades and awards that he had because he knew that other people's sacrifice was greater than his. He was deployed twice. He came home alive, many of his friends did not. And in the past week, you know, going through this process, I had reached out to one of his buddies and was like, just, you know, out
of curiosity, what has he been awarded with? And he sent me about ten different things that he had and was very successful. He was an army captain and really loved serving and when it was time to move on, he wanted to be a business owner and serve a community and just take it from government into private.
What took you from Colorado Springs to Cincinnati.
He's a Cincinnati boy and I did not know this, But if you're from here, you come back and you bring someone with you. That's how people are, like Colorado, why are you here? And honestly, I have family from the Midwest. They're more so Dayton, Ohio. I had never been to Cincinnati, though, and when I first started dating him, we had came back and I was like, Cincinnati's got some things going on. I like that. And when he separated from the military, we took a brief stint in
New York City. He was a consultant for Ernst and Young. I was doing a global events coordination for Goldman Sachs. I was a project manager back in the day with our corporate world, and he really it wasn't fulfilling and he wanted to open a business. He wanted to open a gym because health and fitness, mental health, physical health is very important to us. And he knew that it was going to be an investment in the community and
he wanted to do that back at home. And so we moved here in the end of twenty fourteen, and in twenty fifteen we opened up which is now Findly Movement and we've had that business for the last ten years, just changing lives and giving people a place where they can come every single day and whatever it is for them work on their health, to have a safe space.
Good OTR extent you and Patrick.
Yeah, absolutely, I mean the community support has been huge and we've really we've enjoyed our time being there up until till as of late.
And you knew the neighbors, they knew you place to go. You had three or four hundred clients come there. And I don't do a lot of it. Maybe I should work out, I play golf, but nonetheless a lot of people go to Patrick, go to gyms and work out. So the goal was to operate a business in the community, be part of the community. Yes, to be a positive force for good and let's face it, a part that
needs some help. OTR has got a bad RepA you may not recall about in the year two thousand and two thousand and one, it looked like Bay Root.
Yeah, I set the city on fire, right right, Yeah, I walked up Vine Street with Charlie Lucan several times it looked like Bay Root store fronts by building for a dollar. Yeah, and that community changed because people like you and Patrick.
Absolutely, it was very important to us that we lived and worked in the community that we wanted to serve. We didn't want to be dry in from someplace else. We wanted to really have, you know, powerful impact and change in the area that we were in.
At that night, the prosecutors asked you not to talk particularly about the circumstances, true, because there may be a testimony by you in court and you don't want different versions of the same set of facts. I'm sure you have locked in your mind what happened, but many school things might be remembered differently. But did you know Mordecai Black have any interaction we ever see him on the street before, any connection with him whatsoever.
No, not at all, and to my understanding, not Patrick either. He was very friendly with everyone, was never, you know, suspicious or didn't was very much so lived in the community. We knew people on the street corners, We talked to them, knew their names, interacted with them. And that is a question that I have been asked, and I nothing out of the blue, no connection whatsoever with this.
Man when the event took place. Of course, us on there the next day and there was reports that a white woman I assume you was put in handcuffs by the police. Yes, And what impact did that have?
Well, I when I look back now, and you know, I do think context is everything, and if the system was set up differently, yes, I think victims should probably be taken to a psych word in that situation, and that's really probably what should have happened to me. I do, though, appreciate the policing that happened because Patrick is the victim, and when they entered the scene, Mordecai Black had already fled.
There was no one there but my sister and I, and they immediately were working for Patrick and advocating for him, and in my state of shock, was not very easy to get along with. I had seen too many movies and thought I would be riding with him in the ambulance and that was not the case. And so in hindsight, you know, no, I obviously it's part of that where
I wish that had never happened. And I don't hold anything against them though, because I know that what they were doing was making sure that from the very beginning that they were taking this seriously and doing their job and doing what they needed to do.
So do you this was a real horror movie and it was happening.
To you, absolutely absolutely?
How long were you in handcuffs.
For a while? And again they they did their due diligence with questioning and I was released later that afternoon, and.
So you were locked up several hours?
Yes, why, I don't exactly know, you know, I'm not I'm not on the inside in that and I but again likely because I was the number one suspect, and a lot of these such situations, you can it's not uncommon to have spouse or next of kin be the person who has done something like this. And uh, I also, you know, refused to speak to them until my lawyer arrived, and that that took a little bit.
And you told me off there. Of course you can't talk about the particulars, but you did. You did want to say that Patrick died defending you.
Yes, yes, I was attacked myself and he he protected me, and that's that's how he he died. And one of the things that really stands out from that night, I mean many, many details, but uh. The last words that he kept saying was stay fighting, stay fighting. The man had Mordecai Black had uh left and all the way to the very last moment, he made sure that I was protected and I was safe.
And Patrick died. Yes, have you come to grips with that yet?
I don't think so. It's there are very strange moments in the day where nothing, it doesn't feel real again, highly functioning and able to do a lot, I feel that overnight, you know, my entire world has shattered and split and have entirely different priorities and focuses that I had before that. I am taking care of myself doing
everything that you know again me. I'm also a holistic health practitioner and health and life coach and anything that I advice that I would give anyone in this situation on grief and trauma and self regulation and how to move through that or all of the steps that I'm taking. But no, it's it's moment by moment and day by day because I can't think of six months, a year, et cetera down the road without him. That's far too overwhelming for me right now.
And Sarah, you know, Patrick would want you to continue. He would want you to live your life, yes, and to love and to enjoy your friends and family. He'd want you to continue the.
Business, absolutely, and he made sure of that, you know. And that's you know, when I look through all of this, and there's so many you can kill yourself with asking why why this? Why us? Why now? Why? Him? And I don't have those answers, but I know that he made sure that I was still here.
Some have said this is a Kyle Plush moment. That was the boy at seven Hills who was upside down in the backseat of a van and he was calling nine one one and kind of blew off a little bit, and then the system changed. What is your mission now with the sitting and with the state?
My mission now is to get Cincinnati a place where their residents are safe, because they're not. And that is an illusion that I was living under. And of course, when the veil's very thin, and when it doesn't affect you, it's pretty easy to fall for optics or to take things at face value, or you know, even I just felt so safe with him because of the type of man of who my husband is just a very physical
specimen he's very intimidating looking. He's trained in hand to hand combat obviously, you know, Army military veteran, and knowing what I know now and that is something that I absolutely cannot stay silent about. The city needs to be cleaned up. There's been ten murders in the last fourteen days, and how is anyone safe? How is that acceptable? And there is also an underserved population and demographic who doesn't have the resources, who doesn't have the community, who doesn't
have the support. My community is full of highly highly skilled individuals that their help is what I will need in order to affect change. I can't do this alone, and there are so many people who don't have access to that, and so I do feel very strongly this is our community. This is who we wanted to serve Patrick as a protector, and that is what I'm on a mission to do. You're not leaving, No, I'm not leaving. I'm staying.
You met with the mayor, you met with the prosecutor. Let's talk first about the mayor. Now, I have a social posting you made about the mayor. I have to have peer of all, what did you say to him and what did he say to you.
Very sorry, but I don't think condolences do enough in this kind of situation. Anyone else can be sorry, people who knew him, people who loved him, people who love us. That's an acceptable response, but from the leadership who's been elected to protect us and keep us safe, grief and the after effect is not okay. And he did not know, for instance, that the state was not in communication with local law enforcement, and that's your job to know those things.
So that's you know, negligence as far as I'm concerned. You don't get to have an escape when it comes to that, or an excuse or an out. And you know, he did offer support, saying that he would do anything to change legislation, and I hope that that is something that we can count on him for because again, he is a politician in a place of that kind of leadership and I am not, and I will need resources. However, the actions that he takes moving forward, that is what
we need to see. Results are going to be the thing that speaks right now, not words, and there needs to be you know, short of a reckoning, but really quite that when it comes to cleaning up the streets of Cincinnati.
So Mordecai Black was led out after about ten years. I think your lawyer Todd mcmercury who's here, said that Mordecai Black was locked up like nineteen in the last twenty years, correct, So this was an extremely dangerous person. Yes, and the Adult Parole Authority had ordered him wear an ankle monitor. He cut it off in February and of course nobody knew locally that was going. There's no communication between the APA, No Pearl Authority and local police none.
Well, the parole Authority said, we put a warrant in the system, the system, so if he had pulled it up then you would have seen that. And then we find out that on May fifteenth he is the suspect. He's identified as the person who does a break in and attempted robbery and these people knew who he was, to my understanding, and again no alarm was sounded, nothing was could have then pulled it up and looked. So the system is broken and it's failing on multiple levels.
I don't think you can just point to one thing, but there has to be a total reform from start to finish on how these type of things are communicated, who's notified and what actions are taken in order to apprehend someone like him.
The system was noticed in May cut off, something's going to go. System was notified Burglary, that's the guy who did it. They took a report. Police took a report and said, okay, yep, that's the guy. No one at that point said, is that the guy who cut off his bracelet. No connection was made there. So this is a guy that's a career criminal who's going to kill somebody. Yeah, maybe he has already other than Patrick, We're not sure.
I wouldn't be surprised. And the whole system said, well, we're not going to bother with it until something like this happens, correct and so and then you also had comments about your meeting with the prosecutor Conic Pillach. He's going to be hearing about forty five minutes, and how did that go.
They they're very supportive. They you know, they want to see justice done, and the team that is on this is exceptional. I do have concerns about the kind of message they're signaling with sentencing. Though this man expects life in prison. He's been he's spent his life in prison, and every single time he's gotten out he has immediately gone and done something more and more aggressive. He's always
escalated every time he's been released. And for one, you're not sending a message to violent criminals when you feed them, house them, give them a TV, a peer support group, a gym for the rest of their life. When they expect that that's their life, that's all they know. There has to be an accountability and something that is far more severe in order to start deterring these people and so many people who they Yes, we want to see
communities rehabilitated. However, most of us can't even imagine thinking the way these kind of people think, and so it sounds like a vengeance move or something that's highly aggressive or or coming from a place of my anger and grief. But really what it is is it's sending a message to people who think, like Mordecai Black, you probably shouldn't be doing that, because there's going to be a true consequence for if you do and when you do.
In this case, the prosecutors not seeking the death penalty. In another case with Rodney Hinton, who's purposely killed Larry Henderson, the police officer, she is seeking the death penalty. Have you communicated with her your displeasure with that idea, Yes, oh is the reaction.
There hasn't really been much of of a statement. One of the things that we have heard from the office, not necessarily Connie herself, is that when you seek the death penalty, there are a lot of processes of appeals and it could be a you know, an average and this is again something I learned, and when you're looking at a murder trial, those can take on average two years, maybe even more, and the thought of well through the
appeal process it could take fifteen years or so. And for me, it's like, well, nothing is going to bring Patrick's life back, Nothing is going to fix that, nothing is going to rectify that. However, if he is in this process knowing at the end of it because he will be found guilty, I do know that the prosecutors are exceptional. Who is on this case at least leaders is incredible, and it's worth that to me in order to have the kind of change, Because we can't fix anything.
The only thing that we can do moving forward is how do we change how do we make sure this doesn't happen to someone else.
As far as the so called politics of the small p you had a posting about the mayor showing up at a particular kind of a rally, but not not on behalf of many of the victims. Every time I hear something from a politician, it's like crimes down, crimes down, pat myself on the back, life is good. That's not the case.
No, And I, an independent data analyst, has looked over all of the public information and was the one who sent those graphs out. And crime is up, it is not down. And so when you have and that's the thing that I even said, like anyone who's taken a statistics class, so you always know you beat the numbers to death till you get the story that you want. That's what they're good at doing, and that needs to
be exposed. People need to know what kind of people are currently in office and what they're willing to do. And they're willing to risk your life in order to have optics.
Yes, there was video of Black walking around before the murder with a knife in his hands, up and down OTR. I would assume looking for a victim and you just your family just happened to be in his way. I mean to have one police officer on duty at three o'clock in the morning between the Ohio River and North otr It's kind of ridiculous, isn't it.
It's absolutely ridiculous. And you know the chief of police said when we met with her, Terry and Aftab at the same time, the mayor at the same time. She said she went off of data, and that's what they pride themselves on. Data shows that it's enough. And I would have to say, why don't you look at just the bloodbath that's happened in your city in the last two weeks, and you tell me that your data tells
you that this city is safe enough. Criminals do not fear the current police force that are out on the streets. They're not. There's no deterrent whatsoever. And that is not more brutally obvious to anyone other than me. Right now, I would.
Say, can you hang around for a couple of minutes?
Absolutely?
Can you are lawyers here? Let's continue with more. Bill Cunningham News Radio seven hundred WW in the studio with me now is the widow of Patrick Herringer, which is Sarah. I never thought you'd ever hear the word widow, would you.
Now?
It's a title. I'm still getting used to how does it hit you hard? I would rather it be wife.
As far as the future, we talked a little bit off the air and your lawyers here about what they can do, and that's uncertain in the future. But as far as the police, I have a note here TECH sent to me from an officer who said, how many officers are on duty? How many on that day? The answer is, I think one or less and at one point is your goal to have one thing happening in the city now is that they're offering these opportunities for suburban cops anywhere in Ohio who come to Cincinnati and
it won't take a year, year and a half. It's going to take six months. They also have another class going through that may take a year, year and a half. Could that be a positive situation to have a lot more police a lot more absolutely?
Yeah.
The lateral class of having officers come in who are just relocating to Cincinnati, you do. You need a much stronger police presence. And I think in addition to that, they should be proactively going out and who has current arrest warrants that are out there that are just out on the streets. That's another thing that they could also be proactively doing. But yeah, I would love to see more police presence. And that's another entire group of people to consider as well. How is it safe for them?
How right? And if you are that officer, how confident do you feel in apprehending or going out and looking for suspects or even patrolling when you know that you're minutes away from backup in anyone coming to your aid as well, they're at risk.
Veterans have told me in the ten twenty years ago they have a lineup. So okay, if not much going on, take a handful of Warrens. We're looking for these six guys. If you have extra time, go find these guys. That doesn't happen anymore. In fact, there's speed bumps on Madison Road. You used to have law enforcement with speed. Now they don't do that. They want a passive stand down, don't cause problems police as opposed to being active to go
unfind people. And perfect example is Mordecai Black. You should have been located and there was no no one looking for him. Even after you've identified in a burglary a few weeks before as the definite person, nobody went to see him. Is that a police problem or is that a politician problem.
I think that's a politician problem. I think, you know, the police, they need to feel supported in order to do their jobs. And I met with the police union last week and they don't feel that they are afraid of being used for a pawn in political gain. And optics is even down to having armored vehicles because they think that the citizens of Cincinnati are too fragile to handle a quote unquote militant optics when it comes from police.
But the best kind of policing is proactive. If you can have a presence and you are out there serving the community, which is that's what they are, they're public servants. Then you have people who are second guessing what kind of actions do I take? You're not really what is it to have someone if you're really good at cleaning up messes? You know, if we can prevent those things with more of a presence, I think that is the benefit and we'll serve Cincinnati and the citizens of it nicely.
That is the sense now in Cincinnati, we talked to cops Ken Kob Dan Hill's men and the men and women in blue. They're going to tell you, look, we're not going to put ourselves at risk because we're not going to be backed up. We're going to be sued. Qualified immunity maybe taken away soon by the state of Ohio, which means if you're a cop, unless you intentionally commit an act, how many negligent act acts to it does a cop commit? I'd say all the time. Cops make mistakes.
So if you're sued constantly for a negligent act, that means you're not going to be proactive. And they need one hundred and fifty more cops and need it now and need a mentality that we're going to be We're going to be aggressive to the few number of people committing disproportion crimes in this city.
Exactly, and I think that is is it? You know they have ninety police retiring every year. When you have a class a full class at sixty, they haven't had that, and so we do need a stronger police presence and force for sure, all right.
Todd m mcmurtries here also the attorney, well, what are you looking at in the future because it's very early, it's only been about twelve days since has occurred. But as an attorney, a great note to what are you who you're looking at in a civil sense of anyone well, Bill, as.
You know, suing a city Cincinnati, or suing the Department of Corrections for their mistakes, which are you know, many is a challenge. We've been focused you know, here in the early stages and working with the least leaders and Chris Slips and the prosecutor's office to get them everything that they need. So now I'll turn my attention to
what the civil liability might be. But you know, we're going to turn over the stones and find out what we can to look for any parties are responsible for this Because I knew Patrick, I've known Sarah, my wife and I are good friends with him. He was a wonderful person and he really deserves all the justice he can get, be it civil or criminal.
That's down the road. You don't know. That'll take anywhere from three to five years from this point.
Well, I think it's going to take me, you know, a couple of months to do the research and get all the facts and data together to see if if there is any avenue for civil liability, you know, can they be soon?
You know?
Is it a court of claims case? Is it a case that's that's brought in the common pleas. You know, those are the things I've got to kind of piece through.
I'm sure you're committed to all your cases, but this one to you a special it is.
I mean, it's very personal that they're friends of ours. You know, I played golf with Patrick. The guy could drive a ball three hundred yards. It was insane. He was a flat belly. Yeah, flat belly's gonna hit the ball. Yeah he was, he was. He was a bad fellow there with a golf stick. So yeah, personal friends. And we've we've my wife and Iron invested in this whole thing very personally.
Well, this morning, Sarah, when Mordecai black Spawn was increased by Judge Winkler.
Absolutely, and I wasn't the only one there. I had about fifty to sixty of our community members were also there this standing room only they were not all of us fit inside of the courtroom. And that really when we are looking at moving forward and what it's going to take, having that community from Finley movement, but also just the city itself showing up and supporting in this cause because it's for them.
You know, you know what the politicians are after, which is kind of you to go away. Oh, absolutely, quiet down, Yes, know your role, shut your mouth. Yes, we're going to run for reelection. Happy days, you're here again. Look at all the good stuff we've done. How would you respond to that?
Well, I have nothing to lose anymore. The worst thing that I could ever imagine for my life has already happened. And one of those things is very odd, sincey on the back side of it is I'm not afraid anymore, and they can't take anything from me, and I don't want anything other than justice and for whatever kind of reform that needs to happen to make sure this doesn't happen again.
Well, he's satisfied with the one action taken. The Adult Pearl authority is now going to notify the last known address. Of course, many of these individuals locked up for ten years. They don't have a home address. I don't know what to do, but in this case, certainly after the burglary, there should have been red sirens going off. This is the guy that cut it off, cut off his bracelet. He's been out. Nineteen years of his life has been in prison. Hey doesn't care, and he's walking around OTR
with a butcher knife. We're going to go find this guy, And what do the cops tell you, Like Ken Kober when you say, why weren't you looking for him?
It truly is. They are not bodies that communicate, and so the first thing is being able to get the state level, the parole board speaking with local authorities. To me, that is a huge I mean that the citizens of Cincinnati are exposed by that law first and foremost. That needs to be taken care of. When someone who's a violent ultra violent criminal has gone a wall, local law enforcement needs to know about that. They need to be notified. Other than there, if you happen to find the slip
of paper in the system, then you're notified. They need to be directly contacted and also have the resources to go and apprehend someone like that.
And they don't have. The cops will tell you they do not feel they have backup, whether it's city Hall or fellow men and women in blue, they don't have backup, correct And they told you that, right, yes, why don't they have backup? Why what's the reason?
Well, anymore, policing is not the honorable career that it used to be, and they are not even supported by the community. They serve as much anymore. And you know that is where you slip into some political sides. I think a little bit more, But I don't think public safety should ever be a come down to a Democrat Republican.
We need police and any type of problem that you have when it discusses, you know, safe policing, it's better to be talking about those problems than obviously the issues that a community is going to have without police.
Uh.
And so the cops need to be the police need to be supported, they need to have funds, they need to have bodies, they need to have people in leadership within the police themselves who are also not controlled by politicians, who are supporting the people. And of course you want to you want to take every type of action they have. You want to make sure that they are are doing it well. But that happens most of the time. They're
not really in a place. So to my own understanding, what I have been told is that they do not feel supported to take proactive measures. And that's also something that really needs to change.
And I think the decision mc connie Pilate's not to indict that police officer was a positive and there was two seconds that transpired from the time the officer said he's got a gun, gun, gun, until the officer had to decide to shoot and not shoot, and he had a gun, he did have a gun. It takes split second to go this way. And if that had gone the other way. If you listen to the finand Ruckers or the civil attorneys of this world saying you want to grand jury indict the police, what would that do
to law enforcement? If comps are indicted in that case, they're going to say even more, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm done, right. They're people, their husbands and mothers and fathers.
They want to go home, yes, yes, and they again they need to be safe. These are real humans and.
They they're people. Yes, they're keep people.
Yes, and they've signed up to service and they put their life on the line because they are the ones who are there to be able to apprehend criminals and people who want to who live to enact violence on the community. And those are things that you know, you and I don't have that mindset. We don't have that. We can't get into the mind of Mordecai Black or
people like that. But those people do exist, and that is the reality so to pretend like it's not and to also be have a current judicial system that is leaning more towards the criminals and taking and empathizing more with them versus the people who they are elected by to protect is something that needs to be revealed and exposed.
You know, a shot spotter says, there's about twenty thousand shots fired in the city of Cincinnati this year. Imagine twenty thousand bullets flying around the city.
Yeah, they've got to go somewhere.
They got to go, and I only hit about five hundred people, which is amazing, But that's a problem. There's twenty thousand shots fired. And we're talking about seven or eight zip codes. Not talking from Salor Park out to Mount Washington. We're talking about this city. Corps is twenty thousand shots fire. Those who lived there understand.
That, Yes, absolutely, that was even you know, something a concern that we had had. We had noticed an uptick in shots and had even had a couple of incidences where the police were called for like a breaking and entering or not not a home but a robbery of someone who is working on our house in their car. And so it's you know, the people who live down there again, their voices are not being heard. They're also
fed up. They don't want to live in that They want to be able to live in a safe community. They are business owners, They're people who are dedicated to the city of Cincinnati, and the leadership of this city needs to do right by them, and they need to do better.
I'm sure Sarah, her husband looking from down to you, would be very proud of you right now, Patrick would be so proud.
Channeling him every step of the way.
Thank you for coming in. Coming up in about ten or fifteen minutes is Connie Pillage, and I will ask her about My first question will be relative to the death penalty in one case and not the other, plus other matters. But Sarah, congratulations on the life you're now leading.
Good luck to you, Thank you, thanks for having me.
Let's continue with more. Bill Cunningham, News Radio seven hundred WLW