My Billy Cunningham, the Great America and of course writes Baseball off today, back at it over the weekend with the Cubs and towns, plus the taste so much more. But until then in the studio with me is Tom Gableman, who was the point man from Frost Todd to the lawyers representing the county and also doing their best for the last twenty five to thirty years getting this deal done. And Tom Gableman, welcome again to the Bill Cunningham Show.
And first of all, Tom, when you were relieved to your duties kind of like a general of the army, you were relieved to your duties like Patton was relieved of his duties by Eisenhower last week. What was the status of the Bengals deal at that point when you were relieved last week?
I would say Willie that we were in the red zone, to use a football analogy, because we had about ninety percent of the terms and conditions of a comprehensive agreement agreed to in concept between the Bengals and the county, and those terms and conditions, by the we're all aligned with what the Board of County Commissioners had given us as policy parameters dating back a year prior to those intense negotiations that we had, so.
We were in the red zone.
We thought we could easily make the June first date for a business term sheet and June thirtieth for a new agreement.
Were you, shall we say, surprised or shocked? Were you any indication ahead of time you were about to be relieved?
Absolutely not, So there was nothing there. I received a call from the Prosecutor's office around nine ten am the day of the termination.
The board meeting was at ten nine ten am nine.
Ten am was a Prosecutor's office, the administrator, Jeff Aludo. There was no explanation given for the termination.
Who fired you? Who was was it? Jeff?
My understanding is that Connie Pillage did because she wanted to go in a different direction. That was the only explanation that was given. Of course, I've been working for the Count for over twenty eight years now and certainly expected that at a minimum we would have had some discussion, some indication.
Some unhappiness something.
But you know, Willie would I had presented to you and I'll stand on this record.
I have it here.
I'll stand on this record. We have represented the County for twenty eight years. There was some allegation in an inchoir story. It might have been also an interview in which you were contacted directly or indirectly by Connie Pillage's campaign when she was running for prosecutor, and there was
an implication that you did not pay the piper. Well during the campaign, Willie, I made a ethical decision after going through the city council fiasco when three city council members were ultimately sentral sentenced to jail through the Federal penitentiary, in which I did work with the US Attorney's Office and the FBI.
I tried to talk to you during that and you did not return my calls.
Well, I could not talk to you at that point because it was an ongoing investigation, as they say, Willie.
But I'll tell you what as a result of that, where we're.
Basically a council member was asking for a bribe when I'm representing Hamilton County, representing the board.
Which council member was it?
This was Tamaya Denard.
She wanted a bribe.
She wanted a bribe in exchange for two votes that were coming up in front of city council to you directly directly at the coffee emporium on Central Parkway. How much The initial request was fifteen thousand and two payments ten thousand and five thousand. The second one came later for five thousand in cash. All of these were being recorded by the FBI, and all these I didn't know what the origin of it was. I had never talked it to my ad An Art before. I didn't know
how she had my cell number. But the bottom line in all of this, what I had to do, which was the ethical thing, and reported it to the US Attorney's office and they started an investigation. So Ever since then, Willie, I'm extremely sensitive about any candidate during a campaign contacting me. When I represent the Border County Commissioners, I don't represent the Prosecutor's office, but the prosecutor's office, and at that time,
Melissa Powers was the chief lawyer for the county. So I'm not gonna I'm not going to engage in that. That was my ethical decision not to do it. After Connie Pilach was elected, I contributed to her campaign because she's now in office and you're gonna be so.
One thousand dollars, right, But you're gonna be supportive of that. But I never heard from her after that, nor did I expect to. And you've had Roger Freeman on your show a number of times.
Roger Lawyer and the prosecutors right assistant prosecutor, and I've worked with Roger for twenty eight years. I talked to Roger every other day, sometimes multiple multiple times a day, as I do the administrator County administrator. And I've gone through now was it four prosecutors, four prosecutors, Joe Dieters, Mike Allen, Joe Dieters then came back, and then we had Lissa Powers, and now we had Connie Pillach. It's rarely,
rarely do you hear from the prosecutor. They've got one hundred and ten assistants and that's who we deal with. And Roger's always been the point person on the bank.
So at this point, the lack of a donation to the Pillage campaign you think had nothing or something to do with your discharge.
You know what, at this point, it doesn't matter. It has happened, it's done. The board has the absolute discussion to do what they want to do in terms of council.
Same thing with the prosecutor.
We think that our record, We think that our record and what I provided to you yesterday, Willie demonstrate you, I mean rock solid what we brought back to the county and our services as Project Council. It's approaching a billion dollars. You can take it to a CPA and have them audit it. It's a billion dollars now over that twenty eight Over that twenty eight years, it did cost the county twenty six million. You know what the
return on that investment is. It's the highest return on investment than any anything that we've done in the banks. It's three seven hundred and forty six percent.
And money paid to you and Frost Todd and there was.
Paid to me. I would have liked I would have liked to had twenty six million. I wouldn't.
Let's go back a little bit. I've had the Nise tree House on repeatedly, and each time I have her on, she tells the American people things are going well. She thought the deal was going to get done. The Nise tree House, who really is your employer more than the county prosecutors that you worked for, the commissioners, and you've gone through various groups and commissioners. And so when she says, and I think she believes this, that this deal is
close to being done. So why would the commissioners relieve you of your duties when the Nise tree House, the president of the commission says things are going in the right direction, We're getting close. There had to be a triggering moment last week, was there?
Not that I'm aware of at all, because I can tell you Willie, and if you remember, there was last summer, and towards the end of last summer, the Bengals had said, hey, things are not going well at the upper levels of
the county in with the Bengals organization. But notwithstanding that, our team at Frost, my team that I was working with, we continued to meet with the Bengals almost every day, and part of that was to advance the necessary capital repairs and maintenance and operations of that stadium, as well as planning for a comprehensive renovation. We met with them almost every day, and in the last several weeks we were meeting with them every day. We were meeting, we
were talking to them at night through weekends. The MoU that was entered into which was another significant step forward.
Ten days ago, two weeks ago. Yeah, right before our termination had on the nation. She said things are going great. No, and they are going great, and so the Bengals agreed. Now here's what's interesting. The Bengals in twenty twenty four put in forty five million into the stadium. The county put in forty million, but we came in on a budget because we were managing that process. We came in
under budget by six million dollars. Fast forward again, the MoU that was just passed by the board and approved by the Bengals. Have the Bengals putting in one hundred and twenty million to redo the East and West Club lounges and to redo the suites one hundred and twenty million, put in about sixty Well, but here's the thing. The county put in thirty five million.
They put in thirty five million to do the work that was necessary to match the one hundred and twenty million, okay, and that involved the vertical transportation, seats, electrical upgrades. Those were all necessary things because the escalators and elevators they're twenty five years old, are terrible. They've they've got to be replaced.
Let's break it down to this eight nred so called eight hundred and thirty million, that there was a piece in there the state had to come up with like three hundred and fifty million. Right when I had on the Speaker of the House, had on the President of the High Senate, they all said that money's not available. That's what they said. It's not coming out of the general revenue fund. It's got to be something off to
the side. And so the eight hundred and thirty million the NFL was putting in money, I think one hundred and some million had the Bengals putting in money. Attack, assuming the three hundred and fifty million from the state doesn't happen, what does that do to the deal?
Well, in that case, if it does not happen at all at all, which we don't expect, all right, we don't expect that because of what has already happened in the legislature, where the House approved six hundred million to the Cleveland Browns six hundred million based on a projection that Cleveland can build a banks project out by the airport over the next thirty years thirty years, over the next thirty years, and as part of those projections, they
also said every single Cleveland Browns game will be sold out for thirty years at eight hundred dollars a ticket.
Regardless of that, here's where we are.
I want to tell you about what is the most positive thing, and that's where we're trying to get the support from Speaker Huffman and the Senate President McCauley, is that we my team prepared a comprehensive sports gaming revenue proposal and in short, Wellie, what that does. It does not take any money from the general revenue F one, doesn't take a dime from education, doesn't take a dime for mental health or any other soccial services. What it does do is say Ohio is in the top five
in the country in sports gambling. Why because we have professional teams in football and baseball, and we also happen to have a higher state and you see every one's when they're competitive. But regardless, we're in the top five. We're not in the top five though, in what comes back to the state. So here's what we said. We
said to the governor last fall. We met with the governor last fall in our offices, and we present it to him a gaming revenue proposal that would have an incremental fee, and I'll tell you what that fee is in a second.
That would be charged to draft Kings and fan.
Duel and bet three sixty five and bet MGM incremental fee. We've now taken that fee down to two percent of their gross revenue. So on one hundred dollars, bet two percent gets charged. It can either go back to the better or they can just subsorb it. That brings in two hundred million a year in cash to the state. Over ten years, that would bring a billion dollars back to Hamilton County for both stadiums, potentially for tqol when you know ten fifteen years from now when that needs
to be renovated. Those are all dollars that would be available in the same dollars. Could you also go up to Cleveland, Columbus And we did it not just for the major league stadiums. We did it for the minor league stadiums like in Dayton. In Dayton Toledo Columbus.
But Ton Gableman, what happens if that doesn't happen. Let's talk because some of my politicians' friends say, we're not going to do that either. That increases taxes, but it's a fee charge only to the people who want to bet. But what if that three hundred and fifty million doesn't happen, Well, then what happened here?
I'm going to challenge you back on that. Though it is not a tax, it is a privilege fee, and it's the same thing to happen in Tennessee. They went from a twenty percent tax to a one point eight percent fee and the vetter doesn't necessarily necessary have to pay for it. Bet MGM or draft Kings can absorb that. Because Willie, they are making ten billion a year off of Ohio.
They don't have one employee in Ohio. They don't have one employee, they don't.
Have sticks and bricks in Ohio except for bet MGM, there's no investment in Ohio.
We'll ask you again, what happens if that doesn't happen. You're making the argument it should happen, right, What if it doesn't occur and the state says none of that, We're not going to do it. That question is answered by saying what.
That question is answered by what we had put in
the termsheet that the Bengals had accepted. Is you take this eight hundred and thirty million dollar program that would be done over three years, and it gets moved back downward again because if you remember, we started at one point three billion, both the county and the team agreed, let's focus on the stadium, not everything around it, different from every other NFL stadium instead of increasing the cost, so back so you reduce the amount until funds can't
come in and everybody's contribution then gets a There you're.
Ready for the big question. Yes, sir, you know more about this than anyone. You deal with the Bengals directly, Katie Blackburn and also her family and Mike Brown and Paul H. Brown and Troy etc. And although in house lawyers, et cetera, do you feel in your heart of hearts that the Bengals want to strike a deal and stay in Cincinnati and not go to San Diego or Mexico City.
Absolutely?
Absolutely, because, as I said Willie, we have been working with them for years. We were not involved in the original lease agreement that was done by the Prosecutor's office and done by an out of town consultant.
Thirty we're talking thirty years ago.
Right, Rod Deck and Wolf. They hired a law firm out of town. But every single modification of that lease. Since then, I have been involved in and the first modification came within seven months when we structured a deal with the Bengals and with the city to start the whole development of the riverfront. That was in nineteen ninety eight. In every single agreement since then, the Bengals have been willing to modify that lease in order for development to proceed.
The Bengals have There's been some implication the Bengals have not dealt in good faith. They have dealt in absolute good faith with an absolute passion to get a deal done in Cincinnati. This family wants to stay in Cincinnati, and Willy We've looked at deals all across the country.
The only time any any team, an MLB team, NFL team leaves is when they've been invited to leave because you didn't have the right people at the table that were saying, what's in your best interests, what are your constraints, what are my best interests, and what are my constraints?
And you build a bridge, and we had built that bridge.
So right now as we sit here this afternoon on a Thursday, you're out and Densmore Shull is in George Vincent's in charge, I guess of Densmore. Where is the deal as we speak this Thursday.
Afternoon, This Thursday afternoon, really, as I said when we were talking originally, it is. We have positioned the county extremely well to get this deal done.
Are you optimistic even though you're out.
I am absolutely optimistic.
I am five weeks.
I am hopeful.
I am hopeful as a lifelong Cincinnatian that we get this deal done because it should get done because we were on the right path, and it was a path that said there are going to be fair and equitable contributions from the team, from the county and from the state. And if the state didn't come through, we're still going to move forward and different, different than what's happening in Buffalo, Nashville as well as you know other cities that are
building new stadiums. We don't have to spend two point five billion. The Washington Commander Stadium is going to be four billion, Chicago's at five. I mean, it's endless. But the Bengals and the county said we can sustain this stadium and it can go beyond ten, fifteen, twenty years, but we have to invest now. We have been conservative but it's been well maintained and you know the Bengals management has maintained that building.
I'm ask you this, Tom gableman, have you thought about suing the county commissioners for wrongful discharge?
No, Willie, you know, look, I've done this. We have done this at a substantially reduced rate. I will tell you that, you know, so the answer is no. So the answer the answer is no because there's there. This is first of all, I'll just tell you this from the heart. And actually my son, my youngest son, reminded me of this the other night when he said, you know, you don't get an opportunity in your own hometown. They have such an impact the way that you have had
on that river front. You're proud of what you've done. I'm damn proud of what we've done. I'll stand on what we've done. We have, we have the record and it proves it.
Tom.
We have to run. Time is always short. But you also have leukemia CLL and we have about a minute remaining as your health as I.
Speak, I am going through treatment right now, and I think most importantly, the hours have been extremely long. We you know, I worked was out visiting my son in Denver and his family, and we got the Bengals deal done on the MoU that advanced this entire project forward, agreed on the renovation.
Are you by this?
Oh? Extremely No, this is Willie. This is heartbreaking.
This is heartbreaking because when you work as many hours, and there are so many times that first deal in nineteen ninety eight, everybody said, we can't get it done, and the Bengals we're going to leave town because we had to get a deal done with Norfolk Southern, the Cincinnati City of Cincinnati on railroad and the Bengals and the city one week. We got one week to get
it done. We got it done. The next deal that we did was the was the Bank's deal, which Todd portun god rest his soul told me so many times, Willy, stop it, Tom. It's we're never going to g have the banks. And now that banks. Here's what's striking. When we said we were going to build two stadiums in nineteen ninety six and the voter said sixty two percent voted in favor of it, we said we will get about three hundred million in.
Economic impact off those stadiums.
Today and U see's economic report, because we've been working on that for about a year with UC it is two point five billion a year. The Bengals put a billion dollars in to our community, the Reds put a billion dollars into our community, and we have another five hundred million from that banks. It is bar none, Willie, because we researched it. There is there is not another urban redevelopment project in this country that throws off two
point five billion in economic impact. Bar none. Go to Dallas, go to Charlotte, go to Austin, go to Green Bay, wherever you want to go. This is the most successful project and we weren't even done yet.
Right well, Tom, thank you, thank you. I'll call upon you in the future if hopefully your treatment goes well. And I wish you and yours nothing but the best. Willie love being on your show.
You are a great American and I appreciate being here and I will focus on my health. I have a little more time to rest and I look forward to being with my family and my first granddaughter.
Good luck and godspeed, Thank you all. Let's continue News Next on News Radio seven hundred WW