Welcome to Big for Society. If you have Bigfoot activity to report from the same areas discussed in this episode, please reach out to me directly after this episode. And if you'd like to be on the podcast to discuss a personal Bigfoot encounter, please reach out to me directly at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com. Do you wish there was more Big for Society to listen to you
every week? Well there is now. If you become a supporting member over at Patreon, you get a special members only episode every single week on Wednesdays, and sometimes even more episodes. Head on over to Patreon dot com. Forward slash the Bigfoot Society and now let's get on with the show, all right. Bigfoot Society got the privilege of talking to Jenny and Norman, documentary filmmakers out of the great state of New Mexico. How's it going, guys, Really.
Well, Jeremiah, thank you, it's awesome. It's a great day, oh it is.
It is a beautiful day out, and you know, it's great to have both of you on today. Jenny is also a news photographer for the Gallop Sun down there, so I want to point that, and they might point out some other things as well. But Jenny and Norman have been having some interesting things happen over the years, and they reached out to to be able to share
what they've experienced. So guys, welcome to the show. Feel free to if there's anything else you would like to share about yourselves, and if not, I'll let you get right into it.
Okay, Well, you're right. We live in the great state of New Mexico. It's beautiful. I live near Rama, New Mexico, which is a Mormon pioneer town that was found in the eighteen hundreds. And I also live about six miles away from Pine Hill, New Mexico, which is part of the Rema Navajo res and I lived pretty much off the grid, and I think we bought the house and the land about ten years excuse me, sixteen years ago.
And the first time we spend any time there, my husband and I, it was on New Year's Eve and we were snowed in. I mean it was a blizzard, and my husband had gone to bed early and I was watching TV out in the living room and all of a sudden, something violently shook the house, I mean shook it. It wasn't an earthquake. Or anything like that. It only came from one end of the house. And you know what's interesting, Jeremiah is to me is that
it was like a switch went off. I mean I knew, I knew it was him, And I wasn't a believer before that. I've always kind of had paranormal experiences throughout my life since I was a child, but I was not into Fastquatch or as the big fella as I call him. And I went outside for a minute on the porch and it was snowing like crazy, and I could hear deep crunches coming in the snow, like huge footsteps, and I just knew that's what it was. I mean, it's like something goes off in you and you just
know it. So that was the first incident, and I would come up in the summers because we had a place in Arizona. It was just too hot in the summer and when to get out of the heat. So that's how we ended up where we were where I am now full time. And then there was a there was a footprint I found on my path I made like a hiking path, you know, around the ten acres, so you know, I could see if there were any snakes in front of me. I'm irish and I'm not
happy about snakes. So anyway, I found the print and it was about sixteen inches from heel to toe, and I preserved it, and I wasn't scared or anything like that, but I just knew something was going on, obviously, and previously before that, when we the first summer I was up there, I wanted to get pictures on a trail cam of elk, because there are a lot of elk around, and so I put it in this place that I call the Magic Forest, which is right next to the house,
and it has a lot of rocky mountain junipers and pinon trees which are sacred. You know, you shouldn't do anything to them unless you have a medicine man or somebody to be there if they need to be cut for any reason. So I put the trail cam in the middle of the magic forest and there were three pictures the next morning, and the thing was a trail cam had been moved three times, but was in the same spot I had left it when I got up in the morning and got it, and there were literally
hundreds of orbs, I mean, just tons of orbs. And I know the land where I am used to be on a saz and so you know, they're people that lived there, who lived right, you know, on my land, and had children, died there and you know, and went to the other side. So I knew there was something really magical going on there. And then there were other incidents.
There were a couple of rock throwing incidents. And I was out walking because I'd spend a lot of time outside it still do because you know, seventy five degrees compared to one fifteen down in Arizona. So anyway, I had some things happen, knocks, rocks thrown, and what I call freezing when I'd be out walking and all of a sudden, I'd freeze. I couldn't move, I couldn't move, And I remember telling BFRO about that, and I think
they told me. Somebody told me that lions and tigers and things put off a pheromone like something that they can kind of freeze their prey.
That is probably referring to a thing called infrasound. A lot of bigger predators will use that, and it's thought that bigfoot can do that as well, to freeze their prey or to get something to stop moving. I've experienced that as well, so go right, go right ahead.
That happened three times, and the third time was when I decided I had to call bfro It was like somebody took a rock concerts speakers and put them outside my laughted, a howl, a scream. Then I grew up in the woods, up in the roundext so you know, I grew up with sounds, but this was something else. And I sat right up in bed around five am and just froze. And I had five dogs in and
they froze too. We all froze. So I just wanted to find out what I needed to do to respect him, to let him know that I wasn't there to hurt him or anything like that. And so they when they came out, they suggested leaving apples and things for him. So I've been doing that and when I started doing that, the relationship changed a lot. It became was good communication.
And again, as I say so, I'll let Norman speak now too, because he's had experiences since his childhood up in many many farms chin Lee area, and maybe you'd like to talk to that. Norman.
Well, thanks for your podcast and educating people. I think that's really important. It's really critical that you have a podcast that's focusing on a being, a person that that has a heart, that has a mind that you know is can communicate, and it's not an animal, it's a it's a it's a person. And from a novel perspective from the stories and knowledge I've gleaned from stories and listening to elders, from a novel perspective, it's it's it's it's really deep in terms of how we view this
person or persons and they are an entity. And from what we've experienced as well as other Native tribes across North America indigenous tribes, is that they represent the spirit of nature. You might as you might call them a child of Mother Earth. From what I've heard is that their massive herbless I was told that they're sort of like a healer in that natural world. And there's things
that we everyday people do not really understand. But those that have those spiritual gifts have a process of understanding how they are, what they are, and who they are because they've been around as long as we have Indigenous tribes and we have stories about them. And I'm not going to really go into specifics about those stories because those are our oral history. Some of those stories belong to families and communities. What I can just share is just the basic idea of who he is. He has
many names. I think what's really important is that I've been watching listening to podcasts for past ten maybe twelve years, thirteen years, and I've noticed that the view the various podcasts read these stories or experiences have kind of been multiplied. What I mean by that is there's more visual examples and representations of, you know, his presence. And I believe a lot of our Indigenous people believe that it's going
to continue even more. And I was told by a grandmother that there are messengers and the more they're viewed, the more they're seeing is they're trying to tell us something in their own way. And how we interpret that is through our understanding, through our prayers, and through our ceremonies, in our songs and our offerings, and from that process
there is a connection that we have. It's an innate process that we've been taught since we were young as Native people, and one is being aware of your environment, understanding what the environment is, the elements being in harmony in balance with these elements. And the more you educate yourself and the more you're in that learned process of learning the spiritual reality of our relationship to Mother Earth and the natural world, we become much clearer and of
understanding how we're all in this together. And that's that's what it's really about.
It.
It's finding balance not only with ourselves, but the natural world. And sasquatch or a bigfoot or whatever that name they have is a part of that, and we can't separate ourselves from them vice versa. We're in all this together, and it's it's it's it's an example of the trying times we're going through. There's a lot of turmoil all
over the world. There's natural disasters. People might call it timate change or you know, but the weather as we all see it today is at its extreme as well as the idea of greed, and you know, all the negativity of society is really expanding and exploding into our daily lives where you know, it's affecting our way of
life as indigenous people. But I might also add that all humans are born with that gift of understanding that the innate spirituality that we all have and I think if we look I believe if we look at Sasquatch or Bigfoot from that perspective, I think we'll gain a much more grateful understanding of who that person is and what their role is.
Norman, do you think some of that becomes unlocked as we have certain contact with things, or it is it's present from the very beginning.
Well, there's a couple of things. One is they know who we are, just like us, my navel people.
We have oral history that goes back centuries and those stories never change. And we're told that when you have a story is given to you, it must not change, and that if you modify that story, it loses its power in terms of its message and its healing properties. So I'm sure they have their own oral history, they have their own language from what I understand that, they have their own chants and songs and how they deal with the supernatural elements that is present in the natural world,
just like Grandma, just like Grandpa. You know, they know that that connection.
And I think that the value of.
Understanding ourselves is really critical because we went to those satgetherings and usay on novel this past Spree and some novel elders spoke and they said.
They already know who you are. They already know what kind of person you are. They already know what you're tent is, and that's why they tell us to have reverence, to have respect for them.
And that was really a great, great thing to hear, because these elders have grow grow growing up in the forest.
You know, they've they've dealt with them and many.
Aspects, and there's places on now that a lot of elders won't speak of them, you know, they won't share that information.
Big for society will be right back after these messages.
And uh, then some elders are willing to share that. But getting back to your question, I think what's really critical is that in order for us to really honor them and and respect who they are, we should do the same for ourselves. There in a way, they're a reflection. They're trying to remind us, you know, the natural order of things that we are just a part of all this. That we do not own the land, We do not
own the resources. Neither do they and it's it's really alarming because their area of land and where they live for centuries is being encroached upon and they really have nowhere to go. I mean, that's all they all they know is that area. Then they have to migrate, and then they meet other families, other tribes, and so there's this constant interaction that we are not aware of, this constant interaction with the natural elements that some of us can't even comfort or understand.
There they're in a level.
That is beyond the common quote unquote common person.
So are you saying that sometimes they will maybe try to affect people, to get them to perhaps stand up for environmental areas that are under attack that could be used by them.
I think from my understanding, from like I said, the stories and research that I've done on my own and talking with other tribes.
Is that.
They're not there to tell us what to do. It's like us telling them that what how to live their life. So it's incumbent upon each of us to try and grasp that that that sacredness of who they are. Because they do appear year out of nowhere, they do fade into the landscape. Numerous stories where they follow the tracks and all of a sudden those tracks stop, you know,
so where do they go? So that's what I mean that there's another component to this and it's that that that unseen that that people might call them realms or they mentioned or you know, it's another place on this earth that gets the spiritual people understand and know. So that's where they're at on that level.
Then on the.
Human level, it seems like they're pretty gentle with us. I mean, they have a lot of patience. There's a lot we can learn from them.
But I think.
What's really difficult is they've seen us progress as a people.
To where are in action, where our.
Relationship with the natural world has impacted them through mining, through different you know, how do I say, like, how how do you how do you destroy their lands, their water system, their their their hunting lifestyle, their plant lifestyle. You know how technology and greed for resources. You know how it's impacted their lives. And it's a really to a lot of data. People say it's a really critical, serious issue because what befalls them is you know, befalls
us or vice versa. So we can't separate ourselves from them. And that's just from the stories I've heard and from the understanding that I have as a as a nave whole person.
And so what something you said brings up an interesting thought as well in this question could be for either of you for for sure. So in my let's see, in my realm of you know, people talking about the weird things. There are certain areas of the US where it's thought that they could be called window areas or there's more things that are coming through. Is is that kind of what you're are there certain areas than that
that they could be able to come through. You know, I don't know if you you know what I'm trying to say.
I do. I do.
This is something I strongly believe through all these years. So it's just like Sedona, the Bradshaw Ranch, the area where I live out by Pine Hill is you know, you can feel the sacredness the spirituality from the land there. And I think that my area that I called the Magic Forest, well just tell you, Oh, I've seen him twice, and this is the first time I've mentioned the second time out loud, other than to my brother here. The first time was about eight years ago. We had a
lot of rain and it was beautiful. I mean it looked like Ireland, that really did. And I came home one day around three o'clock in the afternoon and it was raining and it was just sprinkling. It was beautiful. And I looked up straight up the land and there he was, and he had his arms out and he was covered in white fur and he had his arms out and he was looking up at the rain and he was loving it. And I'm pretty sure he knew
I was there and I knew he was there. And then he laid down after about a minute or so, in the grass and then he just like a wave, he just kind of just peered into the forest the edge of the trees there. I mean, it was astounding. And then recently a couple of I have a gifting area in the Magic Forest where I leave his apple
and oatmeal, cookies and things. And I went out to check and see if the apple was gone, which I usually do, is just part of my routine, and I pray out there and I looked up and I saw a young one. I saw a young one, eleven o'clock in the morning, standing behind a tree, and then he was just he peeked at me and then he was just gone in a flash. I mean, it was so My experiences have been primarily very positive experiences, and when
I feel grateful and blessed to have. And you know, he does like little things, like he somewhere got the side of a bark box that says bark and left it about twenty feet away from where my dogs are, like she was communicating and I know they bark, and then you know, and gives a stone the math drawing another drawing of an arrow kind of I think he's trying to point me in a certain direction, maybe to
come visit. I don't know. But when something happened the other day, there was a piece of charcoal, you know, sitting in a little white piece of paper, left in the middle of the magic forest where you know, he's left me things before. So I always say thank you, and I'm always very grateful. But I do believe that there are windows like portals, yes, and I've heard stories of them out there, but I'm not quite sure where. And you know, I would respect leaving that area very sacred, you know.
Yeah, the idea of your question is all of North America is a portal. That's how a relationship has been over the centuries of ancient dances offering ceremonies. So there are all over North America, and they do evolve through some of those areas. It's hard to kind of explain, but real briefly, i'll share with you.
When I was a little boy, I probably about nine years old.
I'll be sixty five in March, so this was in the early sixties, and I had a dream of this this this being. It had long hair and it had eyes, and I saw his mouth and it was almost like a nightmare, and he was looking right at me. She or he was looking at that that that bean was looking at me, and in my dream I was looking at me. Were looking at each other, and I didn't know what it was in my dream. And I woke up, you know, really, and my heart was racing, and it
was like a nightmare. And I didn't really tell anybody, but later on I told my mom what I dreamed about, and she just said, so, we'll just do a little prayer here for your dream, because that's what we do, we that negative ativity of dreams.
We destroy it unless it's good.
But anyway, then a couple of years later, they had that movie the what was that called a Story of Boggy Creek, and I saw that and I said, that's what I dreamed about. And that's when I realized that it was something special. Then in my teen years, I had another dream. My twenties, I had another dream, my thirties and forties. Those four decades, I had four dreams.
And that's my my connection. And we were at the night before at we're at one of my sister's house and we me and my younger brother were drinking tea outside by fire. We're smoking our Indian tobacco and just talking about things, and you know, we retired in the next morning, I went out with my coffee to that fire and on top of the rock, I was left the gift and it was it was a rock and it wasn't there the night before, and.
That gift that I still carry with me.
And I showed it to traditional practitioners, I guess you might call the medicine people, and they told me that it was a gift and that you know, at some point that I might someday probably meet one or speak with them, or you know, meet them. And I know where they live up in the mountains here. I just know because I know where to go, and it's not time for me to go up there. But there is a connection, a deep spiritual connection that we've had with it.
For centuries.
And you know what else is interesting I think too, Jeremiah, is when I first moved to when we first bought the land out there by Pine Hill, and rama that when things first started happening, I'd go, you know, like to the store or the trading post and just make a joke, say hey, you know, you ever watched that Finding Bigfoot show? And people would just start opening up. I mean it was incredible. I'd say about eighty percent of the people I've met over these areas are small.
Raymond's about four hundred people Pine Hill, I'm not sure how many, or maybe a thousand of the most, So they're not big areas. But I realized that the sightings were across the whole spectrum too. It was Mormons, it was Navajo, it was military that live out there, ex military one was it general? Wasn't she or something? We saw her when doctor Melverum came out. So that the experiences or events as I like to call them, sometimes really ran the gamut of just you know, there was
really no just one group. And so I realized that, you know, this is all these people are not hallucinating. You know, they're seeing something real, and you know, so that's and also when I started the Facebook group, I really wanted it to be for people who had PTSD. I call it bigfoot PTSD, you know, who didn't have a good experience. I mean that were scared and traumatized. And I know some very conservative Mormon women who are elders, and man, they can hardly even just they can't even
really talk about it, so upsetting. So I know that different people have different different stories, different truths, truths, and I think that I just wanted to provide a place where people would be protected and safe, they could learn more, they could speak if they wanted to. And you know, so my group and our group ends up being a little bit quieter because the people often don't want to mention him because of it's like calling him out right. It's like if if you mention him, it can make
him appear right. Isn't that true? Norman? Yeah, yeah, So I'm very respectful of that, and I want to protect the group as much as I want to protect the land, you know. So, but it was really interesting to have so many people say, you know, what happened to me? And I don't know if it's because where I grew up in the ad around AX. You know, it's always kind of an environmental as Stephen as a young kid, like you know, stinging ray bicycles with my best friends.
We were always trying to stop people from hurting trees out in the at around X and you know. And so I think I've always been environmentally attached to the earth, and I think that's grown over the years and anyway, so that might be one reason why he decided to communicate with me.
Now, Jenny, when you talk to these people that have also had sightings or encounters, are they describing what they have seen similar to what you've experienced as well?
No, some people it's it's at night. And one lady almost ran into him in downtown rama, which is there's not even a street fight.
Big for society will be right back after these messages, okay.
One of the reasons I love it. And he came out of nowhere and just banged on the hood of her car and stood right there like and you know, so and so those are some of the things that I've heard. I talked to an ole man. He was an elder, and he told me that, you know, in their house, he would come stand by the window in their house and look at them, he and his brothers in their bedroom and you know, so they always knew
he was there. And but mine have been I mean, nobody's really shared anything around me that is like mine where I've really worked on that communication factor, and you know, it's been a blessing, really has been. And he does hear us. I know that because I collect pez and he left me a pez head is a gift. It's an old Pez too, of all the bear from Chuck E. Cheese's I can't think of the name. He left it for me. And I knew that he could. You know
that I collect Pez. I knew he knew that. And you know, that's been very interesting and you know, I look forward to further communication with him. Now.
The communication that you have, how does that usually take place.
At night? At night? He will come at night and he'll leave something at night and it's there in the morning, and I just it's like that switch again, you know. I mean, I have no neighbors. You know, I'm in the middle of ten acres and we it's very off the grid area, and you know, so I know somebody's not going, they're going and there it's happening in the magic for us too, where all those pinon trees are,
that's where a lot of this happens. So there might be a portal or a window there, because I have found sometimes only one print in there, and they're smaller, so I've thought maybe there's a nursery. Younger ones are coming through there, you know, smaller ones when they when they manifest. But it's you know, it's really interesting, and I share everything with Norman right away. I call him and tell them if anything new has occurred.
You know, I wanted to talk to you for a minute about your freezing episodes. How long did those last for when it occurred?
You know, that's a really good question. I think it only seemed like it only seemed like a couple of minutes. But the time with the howl outside the house that I thought went on for about five minutes. And the one or the ones I had when I was out hiking walking my land, those seemed shorter. But I wonder if I lost any time. I hadn't really thought about that.
I've I've experienced one of those in the woods in Oregon. This last it was in July, and it was about five minutes long. I couldn't move out of my chair. It was it was very very strange. It's you just feel, you feel powerless. You're completely aware of what's going on, but yes you ca and even tell anyone, hey, I can't move.
It's like sleep paralysis.
But you are, you're walking or yeah, right, because I had sleep paralysis the first couple of years when i'd stay at the land in the summer and you know, and that's.
The exact feeling. It's it's like you're powerless and you can't move even though you want to, you can't. It's very interesting. Wow, five minutes. Yeah, that's kind of when I think the one in the house when the when the screen happened was about five minutes. And for the dogs too, I mean we kind of all came out of it together.
So that the dogs couldn't move either.
No, they were frozen. They sleep with me, so they were all right there. They all woke up, they heard it. They didn't bark, they just all froze. You know. It's really interesting.
Is that Is that something that's commonly reported in your area guys, where you know, people will all of a sudden not be able to move.
I don't know.
I'd have to ask from that gathering I went to.
No one spoke of that, and there was numerous people that shared from different parts of Navo that came to this gathering at the base of the Lakatric guy Shaska Mountains. This was during the summer, and I don't none of no one.
Spoke of that.
It's really interesting. I'm going to have to do, you know, do some research on that.
One thing I'd like to share is, okay, when I were told when you go into the mountains, or when you go to anywhere in nature where there's the desert, the mountains or the canyons, that before you go upon your journey or your hike or whatever, is to do an offering of some sort, whether it's a prayer or leaving something, or it's an acknowledgement that the space that you're going into belongs to someone else, that you're only there to experience the greatness of that area. And people
don't realize that. It's like a ripple effect in that other realm or that dimension or that many of us aren't aware of. So when you do that, it reverberates all across that area, and these plants and trees they're alive, you know, the animals, the birds. There's a deep understanding there of each other's roles. And our role as indigenous people is to you those elements through our prayers and
songs and to get to give offerings of thankfulness. And that's been our role since the beginning of time, is that as indigenous people, we are giving you these ceremonies to acknowledge nature, to acknowledge the elements you know, and and when you cease to do that, you know, the
climate changes, the things, things change. So it seems to be that in our novel teachings from many of the elders, they say that the weather's reflection of us is that we're not doing our our part in honoring those those elements, those realms or those people call them dimensions. But you know, there is that element there that is unseen, that is real. That's where the healing comes from from that space, that's where the energy comes from. The sacredness of the elements
of life in different forms. We connect with them through vibration of our songs and our chants, and we vibrates back. So there's this natural process that the majority of mankind has lost. And as we continue to lose it, that element of our connection to that divine space, then we have the situation that we have now, you know, the weather, political strife, and things happening all over the world, the wars and the suffering and the hardships, and that's what
our elders tell us. So that when you go into these spaces, campy it or whatever, you do that and whatever that.
Whatever there will acknowledge that.
So it's like, if you look at all these big Foot movies, there's these extreme violence, like these are just like really ruthless monsters that you know, I've never seen a Bigfoot movie where it shows the beauty of really what their role is on this earth, in this natural world.
You know, it's always from a negative Western perspective that what you don't understand is a monster, you know, and it's reflected in the writing and you know, the misconceptions of what this being is in you know, of course there's violence. You know, look look look look at who we are as you know, look at humanity, Look look at how we've lost ourselves, you know, And I would just encourage more of the positive aspects of what this being is instead of the you know, the horrific horror
stories and it might be true, you know. And some of these different podcasts I've listened, they're written, and how much are true? How much of those that are rant and these podcasts are true? And it kind of makes me think about that. But is somebody just being a great creative writer or is it real?
Yeah, even today, you don't even have to be a creative writer. You can just you could just have AI do it. I mean, that's why I talked to actual people.
You know.
Yeah, that's awesome, that's awesome.
We had so many experiences out here. I think it was when did Doctor Melbourne come twenty sixteen? Norman was there and it was probably a couple hundred people and came out to Elmorro, which is I don't know, maybe got a population of one hundred and fifty, you know, but there had been so many sightings and events occurring that he came out and you know, that was really
that was really something. They were trying to make a movie too about it, a documentary, but that fell through, you know, so people are willing to talk about it and share their experiences. I think my first experience was up in the ad around Deck Mountains, actually, when I was about twenty twenty years old, a group of us I was going to community college up there, and a bunch of us were going hiking up in the ad
around ACKs and we decided to spend the night. We brought a tent and they were like five of us, and we were all in there, you know, getting ready to go to sleep. We had we had put our tent up. There was no one else around, no one else, and in the middle of the night, I don't know what were grabbed the tent and shook it, shook it and it wasn't a bear because nothing was ripped, and we didn't hear anything like that. And I think that was my first real experience. And I know around that
Bigfoot John. There are a lot of things going on in upstate New York as far as sightings are concerned.
I think what's really would be really awesome is you've had these Senate hearings on the UFO phenomenon, right, the undentified aerial phenomenon, you know, UAPs and UFOs, and how the Senate came together and they had these whistleblowers. I think that that would be an incredible idea, is how could we formulate a movement to have Congress in.
Itself look into this.
From what I understand and a lot of the research that I've done is that the military you know, has has taken captives.
You know, there's there's there's.
Trends that have been wiped out, and so what do they have?
What do the museums have, you know?
And and that would be something to look into, a mass movement to see what the government has and how they view this and what are they doing. Are they torturing you know, people are up in arms about perfume, you know, and and how animals are utilized, you know, so are.
They doing the same thing?
Is it real?
I believe so?
And they have every right to be on this earth that anybody else that came upon this land, you know.
So I think that would be something to look at.
Is that a real process that you know Congress could look at?
Well? It Actually this is pretty timely because just the two days ago there was a task force launched on Capitol Hill, the Task Force on the to Classification of Federal Secrets, and they're mainly looking into JFK, RFK all the up things. But like now is the time when if people can call Representative Luna's office House Oversight Chair Committee James Comer from Kentucky and be like, hey, we need to put Bigfoot in there too, Guys, Big for
Society will be right back after these messages. Just release the documents, you know, if there's anything to release, now is the time. This is a time where we could get stuff out there.
Absolutely, and I and I think that the the representation of how that's presented must come.
From Indigenous people.
Yeah, because it's.
Inherent in our in our in our stories and in our in our traditions and our culture. And you know, you can't ask I mean, you can't do it without the Indigenous people. You know, they got to be up forefront. And that would be all I asked of that and that if that, you know, if that's the direction everybody wants to go regarding Bigfoot with Congress.
That's that's a very interesting point. Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. Mmm, it would make sense that that was definitely involved, that they were involved.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
I've learned so much from my brother from Norman when we made the movie. You know, especially I've always kind of done prayer on you know, kind of on my own. But I saw how important praying before you go out and do something on the land, you know, especially if we were making a movie, so you know, to honor the land, to honor the ancestors, to honor nature, and say we're here to help, We're not here to hurt.
And I think that just grew when that's one of the things I do every day out in the Magic Forest. I mean, I do Navajo prayer. I do prayer from just my heart, you know. I say thank you to the universe, the creator. But those are that's something I do a couple of times every day at least, because I'm thankful for the land. I'm thankful for it. I
can I can feel it, you know. When we were making our movie, I was bringing one of the people in the film, Damon Watahmaji, who have a suphie, back to the edge of the Grand Canyon so he could get back down into the village's supie. We were coming back from a film festival, and I've never experienced anything like this in my whole life. It's about an hour from Route sixty six out to the edge of the canyon,
and we were driving and we got so quiet. No one was drinking, no one was doing anything, and I felt like I could hear all the trees. I could hear them, and I felt like my jeep was going to take off, you know. And I said to Damon, I said, man, I can hear the trees. And he just turned around and smiled at me, like I've been hearing the trees my whole life. You know, I'm glad you're finally listening to them. You can finally hear them. So Norman says that they communicate the plants and the
trees and our mother. I mean, I really believe that, you know, on my own, my own truth, my own experiences, and you know, and and taking an offering. I shared with that around that Bigfoot with John. You know, when you go out and do an investigation, take apples with you, leave apples. You know, he'll respect that. He'll know because you've got a good heart, He'll know that.
And you know, so you have a you have a world you have a Western worldview, you have a Western scientific worldview. You have a different worldview of what indigenous societies have embraced in their culture. I guess what I'm what I'm saying is that over the years I've heard this phrase woo, right, and if you're if you the truth of it is, this whole concept of life and this whole idea of the natural world is woo woo. I mean that that's there, there's a there's.
An element there.
And when you have the Western thought, the Western concept of no connection or of idea of what that energy is, then fear.
Comes into it. Misconceptions come into this.
Historically, if you look at Western society, it's always about dominance of resource, dominance of water, of land in some words that you might call it greed, you know. And and the idea is that when you come from that perspective, things that you don't understand, you fear. Hence the movies, hence you know, different experiences regarding bigfoots. So I think,
I guess, I guess. What I'm trying to say is that there's a way to communicate, and it doesn't have to be like a big ritual or a big ceremony, or it's just a really simple understanding that I respect you, I respect the slam, and I'm only here to heal myself to be a part of this.
I have a right to this land, you know, and it is presented that way, you'll be okay.
But if you go in there with an attitude, then of course you know, there's gonna be consequences. And that's why our elders say tread lightly, you know, because there's things out there in nature that we don't understand.
Is that the sorry is that the equivalent of when people say, be careful what you wish for?
Oh? Totally yeah, totally yeah.
What we're told is that our thoughts and our words manifest automatically instantly goes into the universe. That's why Grandma always says, hey, szamb be careful what you say, be careful what you think, because it manifests itself instantly.
So that's what balances.
And if you look at the natural world, they all have their own roles. The trees have their roles, the plants, the butterflies, the bees, you know, the birds, and but humanity, as you know, we've we we failed in our role to be a part of this. So I think it's how you look at the world. How do you see it? Are you a part of it or are you disconnected from it? Or how do you connect with it? It's real simple. You just go out to where you're going and you acknowledge nature for what it is. Some people
call it. There's that word God, you know, it's like God is in every element of the natural world. We are God, or we are the Great Spirit, or we are that holy light each of us. So from a Western perspective, someone will probably never ever get it. But if you're raised in that consciousness, then everything becomes clear,
everything becomes real. And that's been what's been happening, we believe native people all across the world is we've lost our connection to ourselves through our connection through the natural world because that's the real world, you know, That's how it was. And I'm not saying that technology can't be a.
Part of it. Yeah, that world is technology.
You know, the lasers and you know all the but the technology were it as matter itself.
Physically.
We've connected that spiritually, energetic, energetically wise, yeah, energetic wise. So there is that element that I think people should be aware of. And it is real, and it is healium, and it is miraculous and it is very very powerful.
No, it absolutely is. And like you'd mentioned the I wish, you know that the community would just stop referring to the woo woo stuff and just like go out there and like connect with stuff. Again, Man, I don't drink or smoke or any of that stuff. And I experienced some of the weirdest things I've ever experienced out in Oregon.
We were out in the woods and there was like there's this young woman that goes out there, and when she goes out to this area, they start communicating with her in fake bird noises, and like I watched them go back and forth, and it was the It was incredible. I've never experienced anything else like it.
Guys.
Wow, I think we could do that if we discipline ourselves and if we put ourselves in that state we were born that way, and or I guess over a lifetime we've kind of forgotten about that, that that space, that that energetic you know, the unseen energy that premiates itself all over the world in its special form. Yeah, I believe that we can each do that.
I want to make sure that we have time to go over the films that you have made, how people can can check those out in the documentaries that you've been part of. If that's possible.
Oh, sure, I'll let Norman go first, because he was the town, I'll put poison win.
I've been a filmmaker since late in eighty nine, and all my short films have been in the Navel language.
Back in the.
Nineties early nineties, both of my films were the first Indigenous language films ever at the Sundance Film Festival.
One was called Awakening and the other one was called a Horse Song.
And over the years, I've dedicated my life to utilizing the you know, the camera to create stories that reflect our history, that reflect the values of our people. In terms of creative films that help our people understand, you know, the natural world and the importance of our culture. I've also worked with the Novel Nation developing a Novel language
drama festival. And I'm also an actor. I'm really blessed to have a really great agent, so I've auditions and I've done some substantial roles, some supportive roles, and some major films which I'm proud of. But the thing i want to share is that once we share stories, it can teach and it can heal, and I think that's the value of storytellers. We need more storytellers, and we need these stories to present themselves how humanity is what humanity.
We're at who we were before, who we are now, and what we can become.
I think that's really critical in terms of our stories. There's a lot I call them trash movies, you know, in Hollywood, but then there are some really good, good, good films. And I just encourage everyone, as myself, as a screenwriter and as a storyteller, is that we promote the goodness of humanity that our elders call us good
lash light, I mean, five fingered being. And it doesn't matter we're from Africa, South America, Russia, China, Asia, you know, we're all five fingered people and we all, you know, are living this experience. And I think once we understand
each other's experience. I know it's like a cliche, but I think that's really important that as writers, directors, actors, poets, you know, storytellers, that we continue to reflect on the richnesses of who we are as humanity and how we're intertwined with each other and how we need to help each other, especially during these times right now. We do have the ability to make this world a better place.
And I'll just share one last thing as we all got together as a indigenous activists, all across now that we came together and we had a big old at ancient ceremony, and there were some medicine people there, and a lot of these medicine people indigenous societies all over the world. You know, they have this direct link with the with the unknown or unseen, you know, and they divine information. Some might call them psychics, some might call
them truth seers, these medicine people. During our prayer, and other says, I was just told that, you know, we're in a really horrific place in humanity tea and one of the one of the young women, says, hey, grandpa, what do we do? Is there a ceremony? Is there a prayers? You know, how can we fix this? The world is going crazy, you know, the tsunomies and the earthquakes and the fires.
And then the.
Medicine man sits there for a while he goes, well, this is what I'm told. It's too late. There's no ceremony. There's nothing that's going to stop where we're going and where we're going now, what I'm told is that it's going to be a purification and no matter what we do, there's nothing we can do to stop this turmoil on Earth.
Then he says, but there's one thing.
That it's not up to the gods or to the holy people. It's up to humanity. Is that what our I was just told was that in order for us to fix where we're at, the sauy state of humanity, the wars and the pestilence and starvation, you know, the raping of Mother Earth, the lands, the resources, the water, the pollution. He said, what I was just told, he said, was that humanity must come together consciously, and that's the
only way that we can change this. And that's just a message to your viewers, to the world, is that we do have the ability.
But can we do that?
You know, can we unite the whole world and one consciousness to create this change that.
Is needed.
I used to have a day dream when we were making the movie because the Grand Canyon played such a significant role in the film, and there's I had no idea, even though I was living in Arizona for a long time that Uranian mining was going on in the Grand Canyon, and it was in the Colorado River, and people not only in the village to Soupy, but you know, the Colorado goes all the way to California, so you know,
crops things get watered with it. And so anyway, I used to have this day dream where people would come from all over the world and there'd be so many people that they could hold hands around the top of the Grand Canyon in a act to save it because so many people come there and love it. You know. Every time I've been to the Grand Canyon and there people from all over the world there, and I thought, I wouldn't it be great if we could just get thousands of people all there camping out at the same
time and all joined hands to protect her. So that was kind of you know, it needs to be a show of humanity like that on that par I think. But yeah, we made Poison Wind, which was about uranium mining on the indigenous lens of the Southwest. I was down in the Grand Canyon with my husband for his birthday, and I felt like I was standing in the middle of a beautiful circle. I'd never felt that before, and I looked down at my feet and when I looked up, there was a man from the tribe and he asked me.
He said what do you do? And I said, you mean for a living? He said yes, I said, well, if I'm lucky. I've worked in film and TV, and he said, do you know they're uranium mining here? And I just we took the helicopter out and I started calling people and people I knew knew Norman and it was just this domino effect, this chain reaction, and people wanted to get music for free. We had a college, the University of Advancing Technology, gave us all the editing
boos for free. And you know it just so poison Win was financed by my husband, but at the same time, we never charged for it, and it's free on YouTube, and you know it just And what's interesting too is I had been in a film. I had been at the film festival years before with Norman and some of the people who were later involved in my film, and
didn't meet them at the film festival. It was in Scottsdale that all these people I kept meeting Tom Goldtooth had you know, all these people I'd actually been made aware of years ago, and then all of a sudden I was meeting them and it ended up being a wonderful journey. I mean, were very grateful to have done that together.
That's fantastic. I'm going to have definite links to that, which so people can check that out on YouTube. It sounds like just like a very educational film that people need to be aware.
We were chased twice by helicopters. And then remember when we were filming over in Grants and those federal marshals. We were doing a Mani Pino from Athema Pueblo, and these Federal marshals came out of nowhere and jumped out of their trucks with badges and guns and wanted to
know what the heck we were doing. And were right at the base of Mount Taylor, which is one of the four sacred Mountains of Navajo Nation, and I at the base of uranium mine there, and you know, and it ended up it got diffused, But for a minute there it was a little scary. You put on your war bonnet.
Wow, oh man. Yeah, we got to check that out for sure.
Thank you, Thank you. We went over twenty film festivals around the world and we won two awards in Europe, in Wales and in England for Poison Wind.
I also like to.
Say thank you because I think it's really important that.
This being.
That we're talking about is really reflective of our times and what do I mean by that, Well, if you look at where we are as humanity and how we've impacted the weather all over the world, and I think you can't separate Sasquatch and bigfoot from that issue. They're an example of how they continue their process and their role in the natural world. As I've said earlier, you know, we're told that they're herbalists. Their master herbalists help other animals, They help heal the land.
You know, they they're there.
I don't know how to say it, but trying to translated from a navel language perspective into English, it's it's kind of like two different things. But I guess what I'm trying to say is that they represent the natural order of things. They represent the natural, the natural world, and the natural laws because of their essence of.
Who they are.
You know, like I said before, Western ideas, Western concepts of science, it, Western education removes ourselves from that natural element that we all possess in communicating with nature and the natural world. So to me, that would be my message is that we've got to be more conscious, we've got to be more active preserving the lands and preserving the goodness of who we are. And translating that goodness into good words and actions for each other because we're
in a we're not in a good place. You know.
There's a lot of hate and anger everywhere.
And as I was saying, he's a messenger. He's telling us, look, you guys need to fix this because if you don't, you're to be gone. But I'll still be here. The land will still be here, you know. So that's what I'd like to share from all the stories, the knowledge I've gained regarding this, this being this person, and you're right about the herbalist, because that's what the charcoal was he was leaving me.
So today I'm going to go get some charcoal. Right, I've been having you know, I'm doing really well, but you know, once in a while, I have stomach issues. He knew that, that's why he left charcoal. I just realized that. Oh wow, yeah, I just realized that. Okay, So yeah, off to wall. Yeah, there is a.
Connection there.
There is an element there and unseeing energy that people will already care, people will laugh laugh about people that do not understand until they understand, and they'll be able to communicate with this being.
Absolutely m Jenny Norman. It has been just a privilege to have you both on the show today. Thank you for coming on and for sharing what you've learned over the years and what you've experienced. It's greatly appreciated.
Thank you, Jeremia. We really appreciate it, appreciate being on with you today and anytime, and we're just really I'm really thrilled that Norman was here today so he could be here as well.
Yeah, I'm really thankful of your work. I know you're coming from a good place and I know that you mean well and that by doing this, you're educating You're you're educating us and you're teaching us, and that's what we're all supposed to do with each other, help each other, and your podcast is representative of that. I checked out your different subject matter and your so I did a
little bit of research that I thought, wow, this is cool. Yeah, I'd like I'd be honored to be on the Bigfoot Society podcast.
Fantastic. Well, we will keep in touch, guys, and thank you again to both of you.
Thank you, Dear Maya, Okay, thank you Jermdel, Thank you guys.
Bye.
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