Welcome to Big for Society. If you have BIGFOD activity to report from the same areas discussed in this episode, please reach out to me directly after this episode. And if you'd like to be on the podcast to discuss a personal Bigfoot encounter, please reach out to me directly at Big for Society at gmail dot com. Do you wish there was more Big for Society to listen to
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Ray.
How's it going man?
Oh? Really good? Thanks. I appreciate your call and interview.
Absolutely yeah, I've been looking forward to to chatting with you. I know you've gotten many many years in the Bigfoot subject, but you know, when I talked to someone that's been who's really into it, like yourself. I always like to know, you know, what was it that first got you into this subject to begin with.
Okay, my journey into the Bigfoot world was kind of in different segments. It started out with probably In Search of Bigfoot with if you remember, with Leonard Nimoy, and that was that came out in nineteen eighty six, nineteen seventy six, and you know, they did some of the some of the major Bigfoot findings at the time. And then of course movies like Legends, Boggy Creek and things like that, you know that most people saw. And then when I was a kid, my my father used to
take us camping quite a bit. And we were camping up up in the Last and National Forest, which is a volcanic area where there's lava flows and lava tubes and Thomas and Obsidian, all these igneous type volcanic type flows and stuff. And they have a park there and we were camping in there and we heard these ungodly howls and I remember my father thinking they maybe mountain
lions or something like that. And since I've heard mountain lions like you know, on video or in recordings and even in real life, and it didn't sound anything like these these things. Whatever it was had huge lungs almost across between some kind of like when you hear an elk screen with the whistles, but then you'd hear deep.
Howls, and it was so loud.
It was just echoing off these volcanic lava tubes and canyons throughout that area.
And that was the first.
Time I I had any kind of experience, and at the time I didn't know or have any idea. I just assumed it was mountain lions until I actually heard them, and then I realized it must have been something different. And then I had a professor in college, I was an archaeology student and forensic anthropology.
And one of my.
Professors was a what they call a lithics specialist or stone tool specialist that had studied in France under another lithic specialist, one of the pioneers of that science named
Francois Boards. So Clay Singer came back in the sixties from that experience, and his expertise was in paleolithics, and which is the Old Stone Age, mesolithics which is the Middle Stone Age, and then of course the neolithics, which is the New Stone Age, and I got sort of put under his wing and learned about stone tools and things like that, and that was my specialty within a subcategory of archaeology in any case, One day he had his nineteen sixty seven Volkswagen bug and he drove myself
and himself out to the Mojave Desert to a place called Urimo, where they have a place called the Calico Early Man Site or Calico Ghost Town, and there's an archaeological site there that people growing up in the nineteen sixties would know of Richard Leaky and Lewis Leaky. They always had PBS specials about digging up artifacts and ancient skeletal remains.
In the Oldovai Gorge in Africa and things like that.
So this Calico site had stone tools that allegedly predated human occupation in.
The New World.
And in the nineteen sixties and seventies, the main course of archaeology in America was finding what they call pre Clovis artifacts, which was the Clovis migration was twelve thousand years ago across the Bearing Straits, and they the predominant thought at the time is that there was no pre Clovis individuals in the United States or what was you know, the American continent, which would include South America and you
up through Canada to Alaska. And so there was what they called the bird soul hypothesis where Clovis man came across the bearing Land Land Bridge and came down the west coast of Alaska and Canada into the New World.
And that's the that was the predominant theory about how the Native Americans came in.
And so in that respect, the Calico site pre dated twelve thousand years or pre Clovis by like almost two hundred thousand years, which didn't make sense and fit into the archaeological paradigm. So it was my conception at the time that it was pre Homo sapien in the United States, in the America, but it wasn't humans. It was it was like a relict hormonoid or something of that sort.
And I was thinking, after seeing the Patterson Ginlin film and the in search of that perhaps what these bigfoot or a sasquatch may have been the ones that were working stone into these paleolithic hand axes at the Calico site. And if you google Calico Early Man site, you look at the stone tools you'll see they're obviously you know, crafted. They detached flakes of this flint into a hand act shaped forms. And at the time it was at the shore of the Mannix Lake in that area.
It wasn't the Mojave Desert back then.
It was you know, a lake with you know, everything
that goes along with that environment. So after that, I didn't think much of it until I was taking a vacation at the Yosemite National Park and on the way in, we stopped at a place called View Lodge, which is in the canyon leading up into one of the entries into the park, and we were taking a hike and I crossed a little stream bed that was predominant it was mostly dry, and then we were climbing up some boulders where we found what they call bedrock mortars and
what those are there a mortar and pestle that the Native Americans used to grind their acre and sage seeds and whatnot. And they're deep cylindrical holes in the massive boulders or even in the bedrock which is granite, and then used a pestle, an elongated piece of granite that's shaped in the cylindrical form with round edges ends that they would pulverize and grind these food stuffs.
Well, one of these holes.
Over time, the holes filled with pine needles and rotten leaves and dirt, and then water gets in them and there you can still see them, but they're covered up.
Well, one of these holes had.
Been dug out and the pestils put into the mortar, and something had been grinding something in there. And at first I assumed it was someone showing someone how they worked and things like that, whom I have been hiking in the area.
But it was off trail. It was just busting brush.
And after seeing that, we went back towards our vehicle, and when we passed the dry creek bed again in the sand, I saw the classic bigfoot footprints in the sand, and of course from the television programs and whatnot, Oh my gosh, this this really does exist. To quote Bob Gimlin, I looked, and here's these big footprints. And the strange
thing about them. At the time, it looked to me like whatever it was, the sasquatch had been running down the creek and then it's and where the footprints stopped was a mass of vegetation like a briar, and there was I could not get through it. But you know, it's just like deer and elk and moose and things. They can hit a briar like that and move through without any problem, where a human we'll get.
All ripped up, hesitate and not be able to go through.
But whatever this, I think a bigfoot could not have gotten through. I mean would have just gone through like a deer or an elk, but a human could not have done it. But the feet were bare feet and they were large. But I had no idea at the time. I hadn't researched it. I had no idea what the mid tarsel break was, or the wide heels, or the you know, the different types of toes. I didn't know
any of that sort of thing. I just knew these were large footprints and they had no nails like a human footprint, and it wasn't in an area where humans would be, you know, barefoot swimming or anything like that anyway, So that was interesting. So I went back later and tried to cast it. But I didn't use plaster. I
used to cement. So I filled the things and when they dried, I pulled them out and they just pretty much broke apart, so I didn't really have any castings, but I did, you know, have a videotape of the
whole thing. And the interesting part about these footprints is at one point I followed the footprints backwards away from the brier, and I found one area where there was defecation all around this area beneath a boulder, and in one spot you could see two footprints and then scat right underneath it, like the thing was squatting right there and left imprints of the feet and the scat. So
and I haven't heard anyone finding that. And the weird thing about the scat was it was filled with berry seeds, like you know, almost like you know, the big berry seeds you see like from huckleberries or that sort of thing. And then let's see, I didn't really think much about it after that. I thought it was interesting, and I was talking to a or stranger at the time and
he said, well, maybe you saw a bear. And my answer was, well, maybe people that see bear are really saying a sasquatch and they're mistaking it for a bear.
But that's how that went.
And then later when I was in college at the Archaeological Research Center. One of the professors invited me up to the Piute Reservation. Is at the time, I was doing a lot of replicative systems analysis or replicating stone tools that's in the in the in the verbiage would be flint napping, taking a flint and the silica material like obsidian and experimenting with the reduction into usable pieces and then into arrowheads of project all points or stone
axes and whatnot. So they brought me up to the Pilot Reservations to reintroduce that technology to the Native Americans that lived along a id and flow to as a cultural like a reculturization type of thing.
So I went up there and I did that.
One thing I noticed is on one of the trips, they brought me up to an area where they did their traditional collecting of pinion nuts. And so we went up and there was wikiips where that are similar to the sasquatch structures, and they would stay in those during this collection of the pinion nuts.
And you could.
See where old wikiips had rotted away. So they've been doing this for generations. And one of the things they would do is take this this pine bough and make a whip and they would whip the trees to get the opinion pine cones to fall, and at the same time the nuts would fly out of the cones. Quite a bit of land on these tarps aung with some large pine pine grubs known as pohogi, and the kids
would eat those. And then later I found that I was finding these similar whips away from their traditional collecting areas, and I attributed that to Sasquatch, and I was thinking that they were they were doing the same sort of thing, and also they use it to knock down birds and nests to get eggs and baby birds or whatever, and squirrels for for food stuffs. And then I don't remember anything else in that California area except for petroglyphs that you know showed sausquatch.
Are you talking about the Tuley River petroglyphs.
The Tuley River petroglyphs were, as the crow flies, very close to where I was there in Yosemite. So and that was the Yeah, the Tuley River was okay.
Where there are other ones that you knew of that also had the same artwork in them.
Similar I've seen petroglyphs that have just the large feet that are obviously, you know, they're not human looking feet. And I've seen, you know, the ones that look you don't really know if they're aliens or humans or that kind of petroglyphs, And yeah, that's true. And then that's that's all I can remember. Back then, I didn't really
have any other experiences. But then so then there was a long break where I had no real experiences like that, and then about twelve years ago I moved to northern Idaho and the Idaho Panhandle, and right away I noticed
something that was interesting. I went to the area where the coconey salmon die off at Lake Cortlaine, and you go up there because the bald eagles come in and eat those dying coconut salmon, and then they the salmon after they spawn naturally die off, but before they die there's still you know, fresh and edible, edible, so the the bald eagles come and swoop down and knock them.
On the head and when they get.
Slow enough the fish that is, then the salmon's then the eagles pick off the salmon and eat them. But there's still so many of them that the the pea rock beaches on the edge of the lake are covered with probably four inches of fish, probably six foot wide, and then they float off into the end of.
The lake during this die off.
And while I was looking at that, I found a footprint, So I thought that was interesting. So along I went up the hill from the from the beach there, and I noticed that there was what they call in the Olympic Project, they had what they thought were nests. And I found something similar just above the salmon die off
there at the Lake Corlane one year. So that was a footprint, along with of course a natural food seasonal food gathering area, and then what looked to me like the same type of nests they had in the Olympic Project, and then the same same.
Sort of scenario.
I was a huckleberry picking on the Ico would be the east side of the Idaho Panhandle, where I came upon what looked like a footprint in the dust. It's kind of an interesting type of substrate here they have where the ground is very hard but when Mount Saint Helen's went off years back, all the ash came down and created like a almost like a fine sol or, like an ash soil that still sits on top of these hard pants.
And so when you get a footprint.
You can see the footprint, but you could never cast it because it's it's just in the dust. So I was huckleberry picking and I saw one of these footprints again a seasonal food stuff that would be good for you know, bear, saucequatch, humans.
And that sort of thing.
So anyway, I poked my head up after seeing the print, and there was an old man there and we both thought each other was an animal, and both kind of jumped up. It startled, and I said, boy, did you see the size of these bear prints? And he says, ah, yeah, you think they're bear?
Huh? And I says, you know, I didn't want to.
I didn't want to get into a conversation because if someone you know isn't in the bigfoot community, you get kind of some strange looks if you think, oh it's you know, it's a saucequatch.
But he knew.
And then in the same area I was camping, and it was early in the morning. I was I had a campfire going, and I was making some of the instant pancakes and whatnot on my cole Mi stove, and like a Chevy, you know, a modified Chevy pickup truck with the big tires pulls up.
And a younger guy.
Of course, at my age, everyone's younger, but a guy into probably his thirties pulled up. And he came up and he wanted to chat for a while, and I was talking with him, and he said that he had been camping up a little bit higher up, which would
be northeast of where I was camping. And he said that he during the night they heard those bellowing howls and you know, all sorts of what you know, like the Ron Moorhead Sierra sounds type vocalisms and things really loud and crashing together rocks and clanking rocks, and a lot of things attributed to what you know, what the Bigfoot community attributes to sasquatch. So he said, you know, they were all really nervous and things like that.
So he said he woke up.
In the morning and of the original five people in the camp, he was the only one left. So they all got scared and left in the night. So first thing in the morning he came down the hill and that was the first one he saw. So he pulled into my camp and was He started out by saying, you know, how do you feel about sasquatch. And I had an old leyandrover with sasquatch stickers all over, so I think he pretty much knew. But so he told me the story about the yelling and him been the
last one left. But he also added that the year before, during deer season, he had gone up a trail to his hunting hunting blind, and while he was headed for his tree, it was a tree stand, and he said, on the way to the tree stand, he saw in
the dust these what looked like bigfoot tracks. So he's he said, he took note of it, and he says when he was in a hurry to get to his tree stand, he says, tonight, when I come out of here, I'm gonna, you know, get photographs and and put down something to get size, you know, some kind of measurement, he says. Then he finished hunting, he went back down.
He left a little early because he was excited about the tracks, and he said when he got there, the tracks were gone, but it looked like what he described as maybe a big hairy arm just went and wiped the tracks away, which I thought was really interesting. And in that same area, I think it was a year after that I was hunting with someone from Warwick the deer season and we're coming up just about the same
area as the huckleberries. When I was I was hit by an enormous mushroom or toadstool, one of those things type of thing, right right in the neck. So, you know, I just the guy, the guy I was hunting with, was in front of me, so I know he didn't throw it, so it came down from from somewhere up above. But you know, a mushroom isn't something that can fall out of a tree. A mushroom has to be you know,
pulled out of the ground and actually thrown. And there there wasn't any other cars or any sort of thing in the area, so that was kind of a strange thing. And then in that area that same hunting season, we went up. We went up really early and it was still dark and it was it was really cold.
And we were on a quad.
We took the quad up this dirt road until we found like a subsidiary or secondary trail that went upward and to the west, so we went up that quite a way and then we sat and waited. We were sitting there against a tree, waiting for the sun to rise, and.
When the sun rose, that was a good spot.
Because you had a it was almost like a theater where you could see the hole, this whole heelside that
had game trails on it and whatnot. So we were waiting for the sun to ride to see that, and while it was still dark, we saw another quad coming up that small trail, and when it got close, a lady got off with a flashlight and came up and said she was a game warden and that we were to leave the area because they'd seen a grizzly bear, which she described, you know, this emidst grizzly bear, and she said it was a collar grizzly bear, which means
it has a tracking device where it. You know, got out of Yellowstone Park and meandered up into North Idaho anyway, so we decided to get out of there. We both had only bolt action rifles, so it wouldn't do much
good against a charging grizzly bear in the dark. So we hid down the hill and we got to about halfway to the quad, and there was another quad there and this guy was another government type guy, and he had camouflage on and he had a fifty caliber type sniper rifle, which was really huge for someone that you know in the game warden anyway, he was pretty much like the ex military or military type guy, so that was strange.
So we walked kept walking.
We got to the quad and there was two other hunters down there at the time, a man and his son, and he said to us, he says, so, did you guys get told to leave because of the grizzly bear? And we said yes, and he said he laughed and said, you really think it was a grizzly bear? And you know, we didn't think of anything of it. Yeah, that's why we left so fast. And he said, man, I got I was so close. I could smell the thing. It
stunk so bad. Of course, I think probably grizzly bears don't smell too good either, I mean, with all that rodney flesh and their teeth and.
Whatnot, and they don't wipe their butts. But I didn't think of it at the time.
But his questioning line is that he thought it was a sasquatch, And I think that it could be one of those things where the government launch there is one there and they don't want you to know about it or shoot it or something like that.
So that was a really strange occurrence.
And then see after that, hadn't seen anything for quite a while, and that's when I started riding horses in Montana. And so I was riding horses in Montana and they came across some boulders that had been pulled from the ground and I'm talking three to five hundred pound boulders pulled from the ground and used to pulverize these logs.
And I've seen that about three times there where the boulders were pulled out of the ground, you can still see their roots growing around the orifice where they pulled out the boulder deep holes and then taking.
These boulders and just smashed the pieces.
Out of out of out of these logs and pulverizing them to get either to the inner bark or because they were having a anger fit or something like that.
The other thing I saw on.
Horseback was hollow logs that had been split and then pride open with these long poles, like the tips of lodge pole pines were taken off and stripped of sticks and bark, taking.
These lodge pole pine boughs.
And pride open these hollow logs and I saw that twice and it was it looked like a group effort because there was like three poles on each side and then the logs just you know, pulled apart. And I don't know if there was maybe a raccoon or a skunk inside that they were trying to get added, but you could tell that there was a group for splitting these logs, and it was We're on horseback off trail, so not likely anyone would be messing around with that.
So I attributed it to sasquatch because there's no animals that do that. And the other thing is I found the same This was a long period of time. We rode quite a few times up near the Bob Marshall Wilderness and the Flathead Lake in that area, and there's a no man's land out there, and we would ride along there and find these things. I found on the border between North Idaho and Montana. I found ant hills.
They have big.
Mounds, ant mounds, and I found ant mounds with completely straight like arrow shaft reads stuck in the ant whole main orifice where it's like. In nineteen sixty, Jane Goodall discovered chimp andsies making and using these rods to catch ants and termites, so stone tool use among apes. She discovered that, and I found the same thing out in North Idaho and North Montana, which was interesting. And all these things I'm telling you I documented on films. I have,
you know, photographs of all these things. And then of course I found on that same in that same area, I found a club that looked like had been used to club animals, maybe a tree knocking, but it was obviously modified.
And then let's see, I've seen trail glyphs in the in the areas.
And I don't know how how how your listeners feel about the glyphs, but I found some pretty amazing, uh looking glyphs. And I was speaking to uh Marie Dumont in Florida, who sent me photos of the glyphs they find out in that in that area, and they're equally or more advanced than the ones we find here.
And usually there are three three sticks in a row.
And then there's one glyph that I see quite often, which is like a capital letter A, and shoot, there's others on rock stacking and things like that. I found all those tree breaks like everyone's talking about. And then I've also found frozen lakes that it looks like boulders have been thrown across the lake. And I've been told that the reason this is is the sasquatch wants to cross the lake and he's testing it for strength, to see if he can hold up his weight, so he
throw these boulders across these frozen lakes. And if you live where it's where it freezes and you try to remove a rock from a frozen ground, moving a boulder from a frozen ground is impossible for ninety nine percent of humans. But in any case, that's sort of the
background I've seen. I've found structures and in Montana, when you ride along the Flathead Lake in the winter, the lake is so low that there's about a mile of mudflat around certain parts of the lake lake mudflats, and in this mud I've seen structures which are mostly big logs with smaller driftwood type logs creating like the structure or the you know, whatever they use them for if they're a hunting blind, or to obscure themselves or to
mark territory what. I've heard a lot of different stories about these, but in any case, out in those mudflats, you can see footprints, you can see structures, that sort of thing.
And let's see.
In any case, that's sort of like my background and my actual encounters.
I've had all three, you.
Know, of the BFRO type classification of of encounters. Class A would be a visual, Class B would be you know, footprints and vocalizations, tree branches, structures and that sort of thing, and then class C would be someone else telling you about these things that you you know, that's a good source.
So yeah, anyway, and when I see when I do document these things, I do check the websites to find out if there's been encounters and whatnot, just to bolster the account to see if I'm on the right track. But the so what what I the first one I saw this isn't a visual, but this is the auditory.
And what happened.
I was, I was deer hunting, and this is in North Idaho, and I was up on a cliff and I saw like this valley of dried bones. I could see skeletons down there, down this really steep embankment. So anyway, I decided to check it out, and beneath one tree there was you know, a bone scatter, and I could tell by looking. One one was a horse because it still had some of its hair on it, And in
that same area was an elk and a deer. And then when I started going down deeper in the canyon, I found this place where.
Something had picked up these massive logs.
Something that I couldn't even budge, and smashed.
Animals to death with this log.
And the animals, now in a skeletal form, were pinned underneath these logs, and in some cases it's a macabre looking like they were, you know, trying to escape and they were eating. And this was very strange. So I got my camera out and I took some photos. I do have photo these photos of these macabre sites. And the strange thing is about when I was taking pictures of this one elk that have been pinned in by this big log, and these aren't like sections of logs,
these are you know, full trees that are down. So in any case, I was taking pictures and I heard what people described as the bipedal crunch.
Sound in the woods, like foot and foot and foot.
Real heavy, not trying to hide it's it's not trying to be stealth with it. Sound crunches through the woods coming at me. From an adjacment. I was like on a plateau, on this real steep embankment, and there was like three like you would say arroyos or like mini canyons that were coming in from dry creeks that met like in a.
Confluence, right just below where I was. And in one of.
These little canyons, something was coming down from up above down this canyon towards me. And I think it's what Robert Leiderman experienced something similar in his Bluff Creek Project book, where he was being like shadowed, and it was the same sort of experience.
I could hear it and then when I.
Stopped to listen, it would stop, and then I'd start, you know, walking around and stuff, and I could hear it start again.
So I thought to myself, Okay.
Something's going to come out from this canyon, and it's going to be right in front of me. So I had to make a choice, get my rifle or get my camera or run. Well, I looked at I chose what was behind box number three. So and I think that's the problem with a lot of big foot encounters is people don't we want to see what's coming out of that other canyon.
Robert Liederman in.
His book The Bluff Bluff Creek Project, made the same decision as I did. He was faced where, Okay, whatever's whatever's making this noise is going to come out on the trail right in front of me. So he chose to get out of there, and I made the same choice. The problem is getting up the steep canyon was a lot harder than going down.
So I had my camera.
This was like a you know, regular heavy camera around my neck, and then I had my rifle. And then I started going up, and I had a pistol on my hip, so it kept pulling my pants down because it was like so heavy.
So I'm like completely not in.
My element going up this hill, and I kept falling onto my hands, but the pine needles were just like sticking in my hands. I was going so fast, and then I'd hit you know, you know, cobbles and and you know, rocks and whatnot. And then I finally got up to a plateau where I felt fairly safe, and I just stood there and watched and whatever it did, whatever it was, if it did come out, it was I couldn't see it from where.
I was, but you know, that was really scary. But it was really heavy.
And I've heard moose coming through the woods and actually had you know, moose come right out in.
Front of me. And this didn't sound like a moose. A moose sounds just like a horse. You know.
They do the same type of winnies and the snorts, and you know, they crush right through. They just go right through, you know whatever, and make the same sort of crushing noise. But quadrupeds and bipeds do sound really different.
Because I used to wonder, well, how do they know it was a biped?
But when you hear the difference between a quadruped moving through the forest and a biped moving through the point forest, that does make a big difference.
So that was one of the stranger things.
So then the other occurrence would be Okay, this would.
Be back in Montana. It was snowing and there was a blizzard.
So for some reason, the people I were with decided they wanted to go to this fish chery above and across I can't remember the name of the valley, but anyway, it was sort of off where Flathead River flows.
So we went and we.
Saw the fish archery and on the way out we saw, you know, one of the we hiked around a little bit because we had snow shoes, and we found a one of the structures, and it was a little bit different than anything we'd seen there in Montana because the ones in Montana that I saw whereas a structure built around using a tree as the center, tent post type of thing, you know, branches set up against a tree, and then when you go inside, the tree is in
the middle. Or the other kind is there's a big log laying down and they lay logs across that and make like a you know, like an a frame.
This one was free standing.
Like the ones, they look like a Native American wiki up that kind of structure.
So anyway, they the people I was with, were not They didn't believe in Bigfoot, and they thought it was kind of funny that I did. But anyway, so they I took pictures. They made fun of me, and then we.
Started back and the storm got worse, and it was really We're on this road that was really a rural route, but it was paved, you know, asphalt. So we're coming down this road and we're in a huge blizzard and they and the darn We're in a pickup truck, which is rear wheel drive, and we were kind of sliding around and the driver was going, you know, pretty fast, and we're going through this blizzard and we just wanted to get out of that area because the storm was
getting worse. The ice, the black ice on the road was getting almost non non navigable. So then I just happened to look to my left and they have saw grass there and the saw grass, and it's you know, it's blowing snow almost you know, vertically, and so I'm looking in the saw grass because that's just where the car was going around to turn.
I could see the saw grass.
In the saw grass, I could see what looked like except for its hair was long, and it looked like it was on like.
Leaning on its let's see, it would be leaning on its left arm. Let me think, no, no, we're going we're going east.
So it was leaning on its right arm, and it looked like it was holding like a like an infant in its left arm, looking over the sawgrass to see what was coming up the canyon. But we had already passed where she was looking. So it sounded like, I think from where there was, our car was like echoing backwards. So they looked where it sounded like it was coming from. But we were right alongside and I saw it briefly, and then as we kept going, I saw what looked
like one standing up. Actually I wouldn't even say what looked like. I saw one standing up in the back, like just in the back, kind of looking between the tree line and the sawgrass.
It's kind of blending into the trees a bit.
But after I saw it, I just was kind of feeling like, Okay, I was trying to convince myself it was something else, but I can't think of what else it would be, you know, have a snout like a bear, and then you know, I go back to my reflection of Yosemite. It's like, Okay, did when people see a bear did they accident? Did they see a saucequatch and think it was a bear? Or did I see a bear think it was a saucequatch or you know that sort of thing. But this was a pretty clear view
other than it was in a blizzard. But it was shoot, man, I never even thought about you know, distances or anything, but probably thirty yards not too far, like thirty yards where I saw this reclining one, And I think, what happened is it was down in the sawgrass and when it heard the car, it kind of just sat up
onto its pivoting on its right arm. It just took a look to see what the noise was because there wasn't all there was no traffic on that on that road, not in that you know, it was like minus three and there's a blizzard.
And anyway, so that was that.
It took me a year on a horse and then I see one. You know, like they say they usually see him crossing the road, but you know that the one sighting that I saw that I was really pretty convinced of was that one. And you know, I, you know, spent all this money for horses and whatnot and just you know, possible clues. And then here I'm I see one by accident away from the fish Satchery. And then that was about that from Montana. And then I started riding the horse up more up in North Idaho near
the Selkirk Range. Is that's supposed to be a hot spot. The BFRO has a couple of sightings there and no footprints nothing.
I went in the snow, I went in the rain, I went in the summer.
And I didn't see anything for the whole year, let's see. And then and then I had a possible And this was back in on the Clearwater River and I was I was sitting.
We were sitting watching the river rafts, you know, the rafts that go over the rapids and whatnot. And we tried it. We went down the river raft and.
Whatnot, and then we went up and was was we're watching them go by, and this is only a possibility. But I saw what looked like either someone in complete black snow pants, black jacket, you know, and black boots, black hair, you know, walking around like a nut, around in circles on an island in the river. But this was like a mile away, And so I looked through my camera and I zoomed in as far as I could, and it was so blurry I could not tell what
it was. But if it was a person, they must have been really having some psychological problems, because they were they were just walking around like when you see a coyote in the zoo, and it's just pacing back and forth and pacing back and forth. So that was a possible one. And it's about all I can remember as far.
As those ray That's some fascinating stuff. I'm gonna jump in for a little bit. Especially, I mean, not just that you saw one during that blizzard, but I mean, really you it sounds like you saw a family unit. I mean there's a female holding a baby, but also one standing to the side right.
Right, like the nuclear family.
Yeah, but this is I mean, I can't say that I was actively looking for sasquatch my whole life, because I wasn't. It just happened to be like everybody's normal pop culture. You see bigfoot in pop culture all the time, especially now, bumper stickers, TV shows, the Internet.
Just tons of it.
But at first it was kind of, you know, a little bit out there to think this stuff.
But I'd say after.
The Yosemite tracks, you know, I kind of looked around a little bit. But then, like I say, twelve years ago, when I moved to Montane to idem, I moved to Montana first, but then I had I had to get out of there for some reason anyway, So I got here in northern Idaho and it was just so the stuff was so obvious. I'm not saying there's a huge
population or anything like that. It's just as I was in the wilderness, almost constantly kayaking, horseback riding, mountain biking, hiking, because I was retired at this point and hunting a lot, and everyone I met was pretty much in the hunting.
So that was your, you know, your kind of your social thing.
Either went, you know, coconey fishing, or you went hunting, and that's like, hey, you want to do something, it's usually hunting or cocaine fishing or kayaking. I went, you know, with the kayak especially, you can get into some real rural areas.
But it's my opinion.
That the Sasquatch I think there's probably, in my opinion, four sub types or four species that are are that we call bigfoot, and I think the one in the Northwest is the is the type one or the patty type, which is a big bulky ape looking on top, big burly human looking on the bottom type structure that's maybe a big grilla type. And then I think the type two is a bit smaller, maybe like like the skunk
ape or chimpanzee type form. And I think that this isn't my idea, hear other people talk similarly, but I think that there's the type three, which is almost like a baboon type commonoid or just maybe a little bit more aggressive muzzle.
And I think that's what you know people call dog man or what this whatnot wolf man, this kind of thing.
I think it's the same type of thing, but I think it's it's must muzzle characteristic is a little more prominent. Where like the Type one, like Patty the Big Frip from the sixty seven Patterson Gimlin film, it's more real bust. It has a large sagittal crest, a big jaw, and no massive muscularity. And then the Type four is from what I was talking to a guy in Alaska and he said, they have one there that's like more like a caveman like some kind of like it's not like
a Homo sapien or something, but maybe Neanderthal. I think they call it there.
You know, I don't know.
I'm just going by what these people say, the researchers there, and I think I think in this area Montana all the way to the coast, and I think would be the Type one, like the big the big type. But the strange things what I think about it, you know, like Paul Freeman's video Kimlin's video both have similarities and you know, bulk and things like that. They both filmed it, they both have context with footprints and this sort of thing, And in any case, I think that.
I kind of lost my train of thought. Sorry about that. I took three today.
I got a question for you actually that might apply to that. Do you think these types ever could live together or they're pretty you know, pretty separate.
Well, I don't know.
I do know that I think geography wise they might be separate because like the skunkate format form I have never heard out here. It's always the big robust and I haven't really heard too much about that type being down and in the swamps and whatnot. But it's almost like territorialism, like if a wolf. If a wolf pack comes into a new area, they immediately kill all other canines. They kill the dogs, they kill the coyotes, they kill
the foxes, they kill the other wolves. It's a gray wolf, they'll kill the timber wolf, and they pretty much take over the territory and they want to eliminate all competition, and so it you know, there may be that scenario. But by this but if that was true, then well I don't know, maybe they do, but they would probably want to kill off the humans too. You know, if they're trying to if they want to be the prominent primate apex predator primate, they'd probably kill humans too. But
I'm not saying they don't. It's just the Yeah, So it was a it's going to make a point on that, but I took.
Out three trees today.
There's a random, really random question going to throw out just because you've mentioned Montana stuff a lot in your background. Did any of the things that you experienced in Montana? Have you ever been near There's a place in Montana that was discovered called the Sage Wall. Have you ever got.
I know about the Sage Wall? Right? Have you been there? My son's my son's been there. I haven't been there.
My son lives just in a cabin right outside of Callous Bell And yeah, he knows all about the Sage Wall, and he's showing me photographs of it. And it's pretty intriguing because it's not it's not like a massive geog you know, monolith where you look at it and then like on the other side that you know it's it's a it's a flat or dirt. I mean, there's nothing on the other side.
It's a wall, and it.
Looks to me similar to the structures that like in South America and stuff where the stone cutting is so advanced that it almost looks like it's you know, it's melted together.
You know what I'm saying.
Like, there's some spots where it looks, oh, that looks natural, but that's where it's eroding. That's where it's starting to come apart. But he says, he told me that he thought that Delter sounds or sonic imagery shows that thirty feet deep, So that would mean even though how massive they are, there are another thirty feet below ground, which is which is pretty mind boggling.
That kind of thing is because just bonkers. It's I mean, it's one of those things where it is fascinating to me, but it's like I can't let myself get too into it or I will lose my main focus, which is big Yeah right now what I mean like, yeah, this is what this is. Like, my focus is getting the word out. But that wall is fascinating and maybe they're If they could be connected, that would be great. I mean, then the two two could work together.
But you know, well, you know there's always that the stories, the oral history of a lot of the Native American groups saying they used to trade with and you know, it was more they had more of a symbiotic relationship with the two species. I mean, it looks like to me, like through DNA studies that they have identical DNA or at least so close that it can't be discerned, because like in the Olympic project, they found I would imagine urine in that nest.
And they tested and it was human.
And then a lot of times you'll hear about hair samples that come back and oh it's human. Well is it human or do they just have really close DNA that's non discernible.
Wow, that's that's really interesting. I don't remember hearing about that. That is I'm going to have to go back and look through all that stuff again. That's really that's what.
I've got some some hair, some hair samples, and I'm you know, people ask me, well, why didn't.
You get something DNA checked?
And I don't have the kind of money to do that kind of stuff, you know, I mean I don't. I'm just you know, a person like everyone else with a hobby, right right, But I have found hair that looks pretty intriguing. And I put it under the microscope, and the theoretical perspective is this, okay, if you if you, if you line it up with human hair, human hair, all of us get a haircut eventually, and those who don't, you know, they got really long hair and they have
split ends and this kind of stuff. But the Sasquatch hair has never been cut. So that's one thing, and that's not you know, conclusive. The other thing is it's never been dyed or washed. So our hair has small particles residual chemicals from onehing, from chlorinated water, from hair dye. You know, for the people who dye their hair or bleach their hair. There's there's a chemical that's usually in human hair. The other thing is the medulla or the core that holds the protein in the in the hair,
which is where the DNA is. It's completely absent in the Bigfoot hair. And in Jeff Meldrum's book see it's Legends.
Meet Science from the movie.
Sasquatch Sasquatch Legends Meet Science, and then he came out with a book afterwards and he documents in there that there's no medula and you know or you know, the center DNA core protein core of the hair. They just don't have it.
And you know that's why they're their hair I guess is so you know, light and fluffy. And then when Paul.
Freeman sent in some hair samples to get analysis analysized in them, I believe.
It was in the.
Sixties or seventies anyway, he sent them in for analysis, and the analysis lady said, you know, this is strange, but it looks like the medula is either crushed out or bleached out or there's no modula in this hair.
So there's characteristics.
And I think there's some others, but those characteristics are and it's not for its hair, but the hair it's though similar to.
Humans under a microscope, it's not like human hair.
It is really fascinating when you look into it and you read doctor Meldrum's book, and no, it's a thing that does come up on this show every once in a while. But you know, Ray, I would love if you could spend a little bit of time kind of talking about how Bigfoot Quest magazine came about and why you came out with that publication. I think it's important. We've talked about that for a bit.
Okay, we'll say it was during the COVID lockdown as far as I can remember, and so I was looking for like an outlet to keep my mind getting I was doing some I was actually carving sasquatches in the garage, and I had all these you know, other hobbies and stuff like that, and watching started watching reruns of Finding Bigfoot, like hundreds of them, you know, like all of them. I was like binging on it them and Monster Quest
and you know, things like that. And when I was in college, I did a newsletter kind of like a magazine newsletter journal for the people that studied the lithic technology or flint napping or stone tool studies, the replication of stone tools, and people do it at rock shows now and things like that, and they use lapidary equipment
and make these beautiful pieces, which are great. But it grew that art form, which is really common now, grew out of this replicative systems analysis of in archaeology, and some people got quite famous, and their replications were used to bolster academic research projects. When they were studying, say,
project all Points. They'd find a certain type of project all Point made out of flint and an archaeological site, so they would study the form of the project doll points, and they changed over time, so they had what they
called typology. So typology was if it has the project all points two inches long and it has side notches in it to attach to an arrow, and before that it had a flute up the center and it was three inches long, and that was from Clovis people, and that was minod on spear and thrown from a spear
thrower and things like that. So they had what they called typology, and then they had a structural and then structuralism, which is how they were made and what they were made out of, and then functionalism like okay, how were they used?
Was it a knife? Was it a project all point?
Was it a bone? I? Was it a stone drill? Stuff like that. Well, to bolster their studies, they wanted to add how it was made. So they would employ a flint napper or lithic technologist or lithic specialist and they would say, okay, let's let's try to reverse engineer this stone tool to find out how it was made, and that would of course bolster their their published published work.
So anyway, so I got into that realm, and then so I decided to start to actually re re rebirth an old journal called Flint Nappers Exchange that it went out of business. So in college I started this flint Napping Digest, and it was just for people in the community that we're doing these research projects replicating stone, replicating mining the flint, replicating heat trating or thermally altering the flint.
When it's like ceramic, you know, if you cook it, it gets a little bit shinier and a little bit easier to work, and a little bit sharper edges. So anyway, so I started this this publication and it was it was, you know, prove to rudimentary. At the time, we didn't have computers or anything like that. So anyway, I did that for a couple of years, and so during COVID,
I thought, you know, I'm going to start doing that again. Well, what I've soon found out is no one cared about that anymore because it wasn't it wasn't a replicative science anymore. It was a it was a lapidary art and people were making these beautiful, perfectly patterned flake knives out of flint and jasper and agate and things like that and selling them for art. So no really cared about the archaeological experimental aspect of it.
So that is okay that I'm not going to be able to do that publication.
So I made them, and I think I sold one and it was, you know, it was pretty you know, it was good quality.
Now because I had computers and Amazon and everything.
I sold one, so that wasn't going to work. So I sort of gave up on that. And then after watching these you know, the big Foot shows and stuff, I said, I'm thinking, well, I wonder if anyone would be interested in that. And I think that was two thousand or twenty two whenever that stuff was going on, I remember. But anyway, so I made one just based on my experiences up to that point. And I hadn't you know, I hadn't done the Montana stuff. I hadn't
you know, done that sort of thing yet. So I had all this stuff like Yosemite and you know, a couple other you know, some of the footprints I found. I started talking about the structures and the and that sort of thing, and some of the theories about what the species might be. And so I put one out and it was it was pretty pretty basic and stuff.
Like that, but you know, it's on Amazon.
So it had been nice cover and everything, and then I met a guy online, Steve Baxter from England, who's who's thought, hey, this is great, but it's kind of it needs some work, you know, like editorial work. So he was kind enough to rewrite the whole thing, and he's he was an artist.
I still is. So he made the cover and then we, you know, we put it out.
Again and it did really pretty well, so not long, i'd say, maybe a month or two later, we thought, hey, you know, let's do another one.
So we thought we'd make a theme, like a theme to it.
So the theme for the second one was to be the Patterson Gimlin site Bluff Creek. So I contacted Daniel Perez, who's an expert on the subject. Let's see, Oh, I can't remember who else. But what I did is I went down the line.
I tried.
I contacted doctor Meldrum, but he didn't know me or anything at the time, so he declined.
But I got quite a few people that were fairly experts. I can't seem to find it right now, Oh here it is.
So then Stephen Strufford, who owned Bigfoot books there in Willow Creek and he'd been on. He was in the movie Bluff Creek, the horror film, which is like lost footage type film like Blair Witch. And then so he wrote got a nice article from him, Alexander Pettakoff, who does a monster what.
Is that show? He puts out, Well, he does a lot of film, Yeah.
For small town monsters.
Yeah, small town monsters, right, And he wrote a really nice article about his experience in Bluff Creek when he was making his episode on that all the experiences they have.
And I think he was with I'm not sure, but I think he was.
With Carrick Carrick, Saint Laurent and Jamie Wayne, I think, but anyway, and then another lady, Megan Renee Lynn, she was I think she lived in the area Native American. And then Steve Baxter wrote an article and he was the British guy, like I said, he's a cryptozoologist.
He's a really smart guy.
And he was the one who helped me, like I said, get the thing going. And then of course Daniel Perez who does Bigfoot Times.
And Daniel's been in on the you know, with.
The Bluff Creek project, and he was, you know, they're looking for those film site before it was found, and he was friends with Peter Burn and.
You know all the original guys.
He knew Paul Freeman, he knew well, you know John Green, you know all those guys, and so anyway, so it was really neat that he wrote an article all about the different cameras and the lenses used and the experimental procedures they used to determine the size and distance of the subject, which is you know, Patty the Bigfoot. So and anyway, that was when that came out. I think it was I can't remember it was twenty twenty or two twenty two, but anyway, my brain is degregating.
Twenty twenty two.
So and then after that, I think I did one more and then I gave up. And so Steve Baxter took over the magazine for two issues winter of twenty three and then fall of two twenty two. That he did those ones, and I just I wrote an article for each one. But he was able to get Nate Rudd and Ken Gerard and Russell Eastbrooks who just you know, came out with the book Sasquatch with historical observations in that.
And then so anyway, his came out really professional, and you know, I just I was getting I didn't like the trolls and things that were, you know, getting on the Amazon and giving it really bad reviews and you could tell they didn't even read it because it would be the same old thing, the same old thing. I said, Wait a minute, nothing is the same. You know, nothing we're doing has anything to do with what came before.
No one was talking about stone tools or that I know of anyway, and the hunting techniques, you know, and that sort of thing. And I don't think anyone was contacting all the experts on Bluff Creek and then lining them up, you know, for one good publication. And that was like, you know, that's it's really hard when you get other people involved because you're you know, you're waiting for one more guy and they decide not to do it, and then you know, someone else wonders why they didn't
get to do it and things like that. But anyway, after the two issues came out in England, Amazon shut them down. They shut Steve Baxter down, and I'm not sure if they thought he was pledgiarizing me even though I gave you know, full permission, you know, and I even write articles in it. But anyway, so I just thought, oh,
that'd be a shame to let that go. So I started it again, but I changed the name to Bigfoot Mystery Magazine, and I put more like encounter stories and stuff like that, and it just wasn't fun for me to just, you know, regurgitate people's big Foot stories. So I started doing Bigfoot Magazine again, and I started doing like what I like to do as the research part, and then publish what what what my perceptions are of
what I found and what other people find. And then then I met I wanted to go to the Emerald Triangle after the Bigfoot does the Hulu Sasquatch program. Yeah, I got really inspired, so I started trying to get information down there. So what I did is I had someone I was talking to that looked was unassuming aging lady, well not unassuming. She was attractive and stuff, but you
wouldn't think she was like a Bigfoot researcher. So I was in martial arts for a long time, so I had a friend of mine that was still into the martial arts competitively. So I talked to him and he says, yeah, my daughter's into Bigfoot and she'll do this.
So she went and got.
A job with a grower down in the Emerald Triangle. Started trying to get information that was really interesting. And I talked to a couple of growers. You know, now they use high hy drop hydro hydro and it's all indoors. But before that and then certain people that were homegrown, you know, you're doing outside. Still we're having the same issue where the sasquatch should come in and eat the buds.
Off the buds.
So yeah, so I said, I contacted this one guy I knew, and he was a younger guy than me, but I knew his dad type of thing. And he said, Oh, my son's a pruner, you know, he goes in and prunes the plants seasonally. So I asked him, I says,
what what's the deal with the sasquatch? Like on Sauce Hulu sasquatch and goes, oh, yeah, man, those things come in and eat all the buds, you know, eat your profits, you know, and would put up electric fences and they'd bust them down and they'd throw rocks at us, and you know, we'd we'd make noise and we'd put you know, ropes with cans on them, we could hear them. And I said, well, what do you think that they that
they tore these guys apart? And he says, he says, you know it's possible because you know if they when they get high, they have the what they call receptors. And what these receptors are is there in the human brain there's a receptor that is uh sensitive. Well, so it was my theory was that sasquatch also has these receptors, but instead of make them nuts and so so I called Meldrum and I say, I think I called him.
I probably text him because I don't think he answers the phone and I call him, but because we have this issue where I think that they use stone tools, and he says, they don't have a posable thumb, so how would they how would they how would that functionally be possible?
You know, they have an anectonym of the disadvantage without the opposable thumb. But in any case, so it's the funniest thing.
He writes me, back, I gave this whole theory about the receptors and stuff in these plants and why these sasquatch are getting violent. And he writes back, what have you been smoking. That was about the funniest response I ever heard, especially from like the science guy. You know, he's like the quintessential professor. You know, what have you been smoking? So I kind of backed top of that
theoretical perspective. But and I haven't been to the area since, but you know, I think that you know, there's the thing about that movie was that documentary is the guy's name that was the drug lord guy down.
There was Sasquatch or Bigfoot, I think Sasquatch.
Yeah, So when the guy says Sasquatch just ripped up these guys, you know, dismembered them. Was he talking about the drug layer drug lord with a nickname Sasquatch, right? Or were they talking about a real Sasquatch. And that's where the mystery is.
But even at the even at the end, even now, no one really knows which one it was.
But in the area, you know, from what I understand from the people that I that I talked to, I talked to one guy down there too. This was in Willow Creek, which is in the Emerald Triangle. I was I was looking at one of the one of the carvings there, one of the it looks like a chainsaw carving, and it's called Ohman, it's in the center of Willow Creek, which is, you know, Bigfoot Capital of the World, such a thing.
Everything's sort of Bigfoot.
They had when I was there, they had what they call Bigfoot Burger, which is a burger place that served big foot shaped of shape of a foot burgers.
Right, yeah, yeah.
So I'm standing near Oma which is this in the center center of town, and I remember the nice name, Oh McLaren. Jim McLaren was one of the Bigfoot guys that was with missing John Green and whatnot back then, and he was a student there at Humboldt State and he carved the Omah the same at the same time Patterson and Gimblin had their encounter. So that was sixty seven October. Any case, I'm standing next to McLaren's Omah statue and there was I guess people waiting for a bus.
I'm thinking, I can't remember, it was so long ago, but there was a guy that was a lumberjack was one of the ones standing there, and I was looking at the Omah and I was laughing. And this is before you know, I this was way before the magazine and my in depth type studies. But I was laughing at this thing, and I says, you give me a dirty look. And I says, what what's wrong?
Do you believe in Bigfoot? And he got mad.
He says many I've heard him talk. He says, I've heard him talk. And he says, you know when you're when you're way back in there taking trees, they do they do come out and investigate.
Like Jerry Crew.
You know that they were making a road in that area, you know, by laws camp, and then you know he found the footprints in the morning, which is why they named it bigfoot. Right, went to the Humboldt Times, and Jerry Crew was I'm pretty sure the one who named them bigfoot. As I've talked to Carl Crewe, his his nephew, I guess they were his great nephew. And he says, yeah, he was the first one to call it bigfoot, and then the Humboldt Times published it and the rest of
his history. But yeah, he said he heard them talk. And this guy was I mean not only serious, but you know angry that like you know, you know, you don't come to someone's town and mock their beliefs.
You know.
But anyway, you know, I wasn't really thought it was funny. It was just like we were joking around with statue, you know.
Right right.
And the Native Americans the era in the area have real deep oral history on Omah, even to the extent
of describing it using tools. One description I have is what they'd take a soap root, which is kind of a tall grass and it has like an onion at the bottom or a tuber, and they would take, according to oral history, they would take this soap root and squish it up into SuDS because it squishes up, it makes like soap SuDS, and they'd put it in the creeks and it would clog up the fish's gills and they would just float up and.
The sausquatch would pick them up off the top and eat them, which is interesting.
And then they also said that they would they would make throw rocks, and they would.
You know, just like you know the stories here now.
And then the part of the oral history is that the oh my, actually, if you see the horror.
Film about Sasquatch, I can't remember what it's called. Shoot.
No, there's one that actually the sasquatch wear masks and shoot arrows and whatnot. I can't remember what it's called, but anyway, there is movie that has Omah in it and he is follows the Native American oral tradition of you know, covering his face with the mask, shooting arrows and stuff like that, and that they actually said that in the oral tradition that had used poison arrows with poison arrow heads. And if you look in that area I think it was, Yeah, it would be just inland
from that area and a bit to the north. I worked on the Piute reservation there as a seasonal archeologist once and I met a guy who had actually one of the main medicine man. Guy had He told me some Sasquatch legends and one of them was that they would use the same as the Oma back in Willow Creek.
The Oma in their tradition also used tools and whatnot, and they used a red obsidian, and red obsidian, according to their oral tradition, was ritually poison, like a ritualistic poison like if you shot someone, if you had obsidian and you laid.
It out the rock, the raw rock.
They would have different meanings for different ones, like if you had a real fancy rainbow s luminescence about it that you know, you use that for trade, you know, and that makes perfectly common sense. And then if you had black obsidi and us, you'd use that for hunting, say deer, you would make a projectile point. If it was gray, it's got a little bit of texture and it's a little tougher, So use that for spear point, a knife, or a thrusting object, or even an axe head.
And then if you have red that's ritually poisoning, and use it on your enemies to kill them.
So I thought that was interesting that the oral history about the sauce the ome, which is you know, the Sasquatch there would have the same oral history, uh like almost you know, similar to the Paiutes hunting, hunting medicine.
But that's so fascinating stuff. So the oral tradition you were saying over by Willow Creek was that from the Hoopa tribe.
Done Hoopa would be ohmah, yeah, okay cool. That would be the Oraville Reservation, I think it is. And something interesting about that reservation on Oroville is when I was in college, I was studying this one guy, the Native Americans there have what they call the white deer dance, and they would dance, you know, like around you know, the fire whatever, like this kind of stuff in their
native regalia. And they would have albino deer skins because they had big medicine, you know, it's and then it would put the albino deer head on their head like a hat, and then and the skin would be like a cape. And then they would have a headband that had like bear teeth but they were facing up, and they would dance with a staff that had a deer skin on it also, you know, the albino deer skin.
And then they would have these giant obsidian blades. And by blades, I don't mean like you know, a detached sharp rock that's large it is considered a blade in archaeology. But they were flaked on both sides, like an arrowhead with a nice flaking on both sides, or an obsidian knife or anything. But these things were like thirty forty inches long, a foot in width and the thickness of
about three inches in the center. So these are massive, you know, you're talking about fifty sixty pounds, and they're beautiful. They look like a surfboard. But you know obsidian or volcanic glass, so it's like a gemstone. It's like a semi precious gem, and it's the size of a boogie board and or a large skateboard. And they're dancing with these things and they have a thong around their arm
and then around the blade. Well, the guy who was flint napping those for the Iraq, Karok, and the Hoopah, all three of those in that area, he himself was a Karok Native American. His name was ted Orcut and his can't remember his Indian name was Mitso Pisa fish or something like that, which means upriver boy because he
lived up on the river. So anyway, I was researching his techniques to make these giant blades, and I found it where a ethnologist or an anthropologists had been interviewing him and some of his family members because he learned to trade from his uncle, who was also a Karok. So anyway, so I'm reading this thing, and right during the interview, so all the Karaoks stopped the interview break up, and the uncle had seen a sasquad running across this hill.
And you know this is like in the nineteenth oh wow.
Yeah, And it's in this and it's in this microfish. You know, because this is this is really obscure literature.
You have to really dig to get this stuff.
As you can imagine, it's not like mainstream pop culture stuff. So even when I'm trying to find out about some rare technology from the past, and this is all our past, no matter who you are, at some point your ancestors were making stone flint tools. I mean even even you know, in the Revolutionary War, these flint lock rifles, someone had to chip those flint flints to put in those rifles to set off the spark. So flint mining and flint working had never it's never been a lost art. Like
some people say, oh, that's a lost art. No, it really never was. But anyway, so I thought that was so bizarre because that was when when I was doing that research. I it was like, you know, you know, a long time ago before I was really heavy into the Bigfoot research. So I just like, God, that's kind of strange, that's kind of random, you know, Like what they stopped the interview with this guy who came all the way from these universities. Hey, someone saw a sasquatch,
And it was like a big deal. But it wasn't like you know or shadow like, oh, we don't believe in them. It's like it's a rare sight, like when you see an albino moose. Hey, soone so saw on albino moose. That's a big deal.
It was that sort of you know, interaction, social interaction. So I thought that was kind of interesting.
That's awesome. Do you have a copy of that or is that just something you were just reading and research?
Actually I might have it.
I I actually wrote a book about that's a piece of bitch.
See if I got it here. I don't have it, but I can. I can get you a copy of the book or send you the link.
Yeah, that would be cool.
Uh, it's let's call it.
I think it's I think it's called Upriver Boy the book.
Okay, I don't have it, right, cool.
I just I just have my sasquatchuff. But yeah, and it's it was it's a strong thing. But one of the guy, one of the guys I was doing the research work with, we were going to publish a peer reviewed academic journal. But as far as where it goes to patience and attention to detail and things like that, in academia never my strong point.
It's like, let's get it done. Let's get it done.
But I was working with some other people, like some of the universities on that, on that research, and you know, we found out where ted Orcutt or Mesipieza Fitch. We we found out where he lived. You can find Theodore or cut and graves dot com. You can see his graves down with all these spear points carved into it, which is interesting.
He's in the graveyard there and in that area in or Cut I guess. So anyway, it's all verifile. Well, I mean, the guy's bones are there, his gravestones there. I'd like to find out where he was.
Making these things because the remnants, the you know, the the waist flakes that were detached from these giant blades are going to still be there, so you could use those to kind of rebuild what.
He was doing.
And I one of the guys that was on the research project said he was probably using Usually when you make these things, you're using like an deer antler or a moose antler to percussion and knock flakes off, and then you the finer work he used, you.
Press it off like they call it the pressure method with a deer tiet. But this guy was.
Using actually kind of innovative and he was using a mallet instead of like just the antler stuff. He was using a mallet he had made and then almost like a hammer and a chisel, but it was a mallet, and you know, I don't know what you would call a chisel made out of a horn. But anyway, the interesting part was that in that research, sasquatch was in there.
So that's such a cool thing when you have multiple interests intersect like that unexpectedly. But Ray, it has been a pleasure having you on the show, and a lot of things we've never talked about before. What's the best way for people to pick up copies of that magazine if they would be looking for it?
Well, let's see what you do is you just go on Amazon Books and just type in Bigfoot Quest magazine.
Tons of them well popped up. And the one I.
Would recommend, of course, the one I always finish is always my favorite. But I just did one on Mount Saint Helens, and of course not Saint Helens is in the same county as the Scuukam cast as Ape Canyon.
You know the Ape Canyon.
Attack where you know they sasquatches attacked the cabin and there was actually and shot and went off a cliff and that I think it was Fred Beck, I think it was.
And anyway, so that was in that area.
And then Monster Quest when they came out with their classic thing that there was a group of women looking
for saucequatch. There there's so much history in that in the Mount Saint Helen's and then there's the course there's the theories that you know, the National Guard came in after the eruption of Mount Saint Helen and they were they found injured sacequatch and things like that that that story shoot, there's there's so many saucequatch related things about Mount Saint Helen and anyway in that county that is in I can't recall the name, but if you look on even b f R or any of the other
selection sites.
They're still encounters today in that area. So that's my favorite ones.
If you look up you know, Bigfoot Quest magazines, Mount Saint Helen and then if you have to put ray Harwid and then all come up and I don't make any profit on them for the most part, unless it's on kindle ate, I get.
Like thirty cents.
But the paperback one's my favorite format, and they're more like readers digest because they're like thick and they're six by nine. But the thing about it is is it's only three dollars and eighty seven cents, and that's what they charge to make it. So I just wanted to be affordable so people can get the information. And then
I do another one called Journal of Sasquatch Archaeology. And if you're interested, like in the artifactual part, like the foot cast, the hand casts, the butt patent casts, that sort of thing, I sort of those are kind of more condensed into that realm. And then there's you know, I just worked with doctor Meldrum on one. I don't want to overstate my association with him or anything, but
he had been Annie. He's been to China to study the YearIn, he's been to Russia to study the Almisty, and he went you know with Ron Moore Head and John Bender Nagel and the Chinese one, I thought it
was really interesting. The Russian one was kind of a nothing burger because you know, there was Zana that was supposed to be the Russian almosty that married into human society, and he said that was just that was actually an African American, not American, but African Russian lady, and it was just so rare that they thought she was an.
Almisty, according to doctor Melner. But the Chinese one is really detailed.
I mean they have the same They found casts there that have the mid tarsal break and the short toes structure, and those toes are really long, but only nubs stick out, but the bones go all the way to the mid tarsal break for the toes, so it has elongate toes, but you just see the little stubs at the end and then anyway so that it goes through you know, all the Chinese professors that have been studying it and that are famous in that area, and you know it
talks about them stealing fruit and living in.
The mountains and everything. So I really like that one.
Like I said, they're more like small books than they are magazines at this point, because I went down from magazines, you know, large magazine size of eight and a half by eleven, you know, which irregular book quality. But then I went back down to six by nine I think it was Ron Moorehead actually thought that was a good idea. So because he was I was working with him on one about you know, the Sasquatch auditory, things like the Samurai sounds and whatnot.
Of Sierra sounds. So anyway, so I started going six by nine. So they look like kind of like a thick version of Readers Digest at this point.
Yeah, no, that's cool. I like that, and you know, old school Readers Digest. But I mean, I think maybe we'll have to have enough date in the future sometime from you and see how things are going. It seems like you're involved with a lot of cool stuff. But dude, thank you. Is there a way besides this, you know, if people want to reach out to you and maybe they're like, oh yeah, I saw a bigfoot using tools too, or is there any way that they can reach out to you.
Yeah, that'd be great. I have.
I'm kicked off Facebook right now periodically, I do, you know, like everyone else Facebook jail as they say, but the big Foot Quest magazine. But you know, Thomas Seward, he's actually helping me out with that now because I get cough kicked off so much. So he's he's kind of run it. So big Foot Quest Magazine on YouTube and not YouTube, big Foot Quest Magazine on Facebook group Bigfoot
Quest Magazine Group. And then I have a YouTube channel that kind of just faded away called the Bigfoot Show on YouTube, which I mostly my horseback searching for bigfoot stuff. And then one thing I was going to tell you
too real quick. I'll just make a quick note and maybe talk about it next time, is my main goal, and this was very unpopular among the bigfoot community was I went to horse school to learn roping and I got a roping saddle, which is a little bit different than the regular trail saddle because there's apparatus.
For you know, your your rope and whatnot.
So anyway, I took lessons in roping and I was going to rodeo style rope a sasquatch. The reason being in California, the Spaniard, the Spanish cowboys would cabulare cabureras, cabrioleros, I can't remember how to say that, but would rope grizzly bears and sell them, sell them to zoos. And then like the cattleman started, you know, doing the same thing. They would rope grizzlies, and you know they can make
extra money sell them to zoos. So I thought, if you can rope a grizzly bear, you could probably rope a a sasquatch. So anyone i'd told her, I thought I would talk about that. They think I was completely insane or stupid. You know, you're either insane or stupid, but there's no there's no other explanation. Then I thought, you know, Patterson and Gimblin.
Were both rodeo cowboys.
They were on their horses when they saw the sasquatch. So that's where I started thinking about it. And then Paul Freeman did some of his research on horseback. Ron Moorehead got to Sierra Sand's location on horseback, and I thought the horses might attract the saucequatch. You know, maybe they're curious about it, or I think it's something to eat and they're stalking it or whatever. But I thought, if they're stalking my horse and I can get close,
I could last soom. And I wondered why I didn't Gimblin last sue it or Patterson, And then I was talking a friend of Gimblin's. I got to meet Bob Gimlin, and I was talking to a friend of his. He says, Man, the reason he didn't is he isn't he wasn't stupid.
He says. If you ever rope one of those things, man, you're roping death.
Man.
He's going to rip you apart. And then so I got that enough where I backed off on the idea.
Probably wise, Yeah, but anyway, sorry, I got on a tangent. Hey, I think that's worth knowing as well, and I'm glad that you you stepped away from the idea. But yeah, Ray, I mean, you're a guy who's who's got a lot going on over the years, a lot of really cool a lot of a lot of knowledge. But yeah, thank you so much for coming on the show. We will definitely be in touch and I appreciate you hanging out with us tonight.
Okay, well, thanks for your patience on me, because you know, you know, when you retire, you don't talk.
To a lot of people, see, kind of lose your social edge.
It it's a good time.
Man.
If there's anything I can ever do to help, I don't be afraid to reach out. But thank you, oh you have already.
Thanks a lot. I really appreciate it. You have a good day. Then you got it? Okay, goodbye bye.
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