Welcome to Big for Society. If you have BIGFOD activity to report from the same areas discussed in this episode, please reach out to me directly after this episode. And if you'd like to be on the podcast to discuss a personal Bigfoot encounter, please reach out to me directly at Big for Society at gmail dot com. Do you wish there was more Big for Society to listen to
you every week? Well there is now. If you become a supporting member over at Patreon, you get a special members only episode every single week on Wednesdays, and sometimes even more episodes. Head on over to patreon dot com. Forward slash the Big for Society and now let's get on with the show, all right, Big for Society. We got the privilege of talking to mister Ryan Edwards today.
He's a cryptosologist from San Antonio, Texas. You may remember Ryan was back on the podcast, oh man, maybe even a few years ago now when his first book came out, I believe. But we're having him back on to catch up and he's also got some new things cooking. And so how are we doing today.
Brian doing good?
Pleasure to be on awesome? Oh man? I want to say right off the bat. This the new book that you've got out the beyond Bigfoot, the other unrecognized primates of North America. It is very cool. It is not I would say it's different from your normal Bigfoot book, but it's a book that needed to be written and
it is just so cool. How I don't think this is giving too much away, but you were able to take research that was done a long time ago by people such as Lauren Coleman and connect that to current day. And there's a lot of reports in there that I myself hadn't even seen before. So, man, some really cool stuff in this book.
I appreciate. It is honestly when it comes from me. In writing books, I with Sasquatch books especially, I'm like everything's already been written about, so I try to bring up books like, hey, what been written about yet? And the animals and cryptos that I bring up in this book, I feel haven't gotten a book yet. So that's the reason I wrote.
This, Yeah, exactly, And I'll you know. For example, there are multiple parts of this book, but one of them I found very interesting was the whole devil monkey thing. Because I've done it's come up every once in a while in interviews on this podcast. But man, it's hard to find resources about stuff like this. I'm glad that you took the time to put it together. What was your main motivation in going back and writing another book, but this time about these unrecognized primates?
Pretty much? I always think of this book as a good follow up in my second book, Sasquatch Prehistory, that one goes into a deep, deep researching of the Sasquatch, possible evolutionary origins, prespocal North America, stuff like that. And while looking at sasquatch in recent years, we probably both saying that type chart of like the ten types of Bigfoot, the Patty type, the wind to go type, all that stuff. And I looked at that, I'm like, how can we
break this down morphologically? How can we break this down zoologically? So are there ten types of Sasquatch? No, it's very unlikely for primates high older primates that have a lot of subspecies. So I was like, okay, so let's look at it. And then the three that mainly get brought
up are devil monkeys. That's a well known requipment seemed throughout North America that's been researched since the sixties, since Mark Hall, Lone Coleman, and in recent years we've bringing a new variety of like variety of quote unquote sasquatch. You get the gugly phenomenon these sasquatch like species species with a mandule like muzzle. And then we also have the most American ape napes are seen as more chimpanzee like. This is a well known creature of work with Ron Coleman.
If you know the dexty Illinois prints, it's a sad trucks like footprint, but with a divergent big toe. And this is a crypto that really hasn't been talked about recently. I was like, Okay, let me break this down, see what these creatures could be, and also what's the likelihood of them? Like, am I suggesting this full unknown species
of primate Roman North America? Most likely? No, But let's go on the idea of like speculative evolution of like if these creatures were real, what would they look like? What would our evolutionary origins be? And then we do have sightings of them, could these be misidentifications? Could these be another species we just don't know about yet? And that's really what brought me into this book.
It's a book where I learned a ton from Ryan, especially with the nape part, with those tracks, because I've seen them over the years. Some that got sent to me and I was always like, man, this just feels like it's not the normal bigfootprint and like something's off here. And now you're able to present this like, yeah, this is what's going on here. And actually I had an individual, Harley Owens, that captured a track that is very close to this nape where it has that one toe branching
out to the side like that. It's exactly what it is that he captured down Tennessee. And this is very recent. So I think you're doing a great service to the community for bringing this stuff out into the open again, because as we both know, it doesn't take long for a community like this to maybe forget things that have been discovered in earlier years like Lauren Coleman and Mark Hall brought to light.
Yeah, Like that's one thing too, especially with just my research in general, is that I very much am a person that I look at the past. I'm what I call myself an old fashioned crypto zoologist. I look at the zoological fields. I look at the biological fields. I'm very much I mean, I put myself and like a researcher,
very much similar to like how wend Hooveman's was. I have t Sanderson Lawn, Coleman, ken Gerhart into the modern day Love Blackburn, because I try to bring into like, Okay, nowadays, at least for modern cryptozoology and modern bigfoot research, it's
got muddy. It's got muddied up so much by UFOs and the paranormal field and supernatural and I'm like, wait, no, let's bring out the zoology in cryptozoology and look at let's look at the animals, let's look at the old fashioned research of like okay, let's know the biological fields,
let's know primatology. And I am not classically trained in these fields, of course, but still you can bring out like okay, let's see what we've learned from the past and bring it out into the modern day and hopefully bring out it kind of like almost a revolution of No. Cryptozoology is zoology at its basics, and that's really what my research has go after.
I love that when you were doing research for this book, did you make any discoveries along the way that we're like, wow, this is completely new to me, or was it more just putting all the facts that you knew together in a handheld written book.
Actually, there was a lot of discoveries made along the way, a lot of things that I learned that were very interesting to me. Like, for instance, not a lot of people realized that primates, first of all, appear in North America. Some of the first primates evolved around sixty six million years ago. These were known as purgatorious. But then some well known primaries called plesiadapa forms. These are very much like lemurs tasier like primates that died out about thirty
three about thirty seven million years ago. But they had a long lineage and it existed from like sixty six to thirty thirty seven million years ago, and then around thirty seven million years ago Wheniapholms formed these old gleam aur like primates that roamed North America back in the EOC. And I bring in the ideas like, okay, so primates war here a long time ago, and we believed they
died out around thirty seven million years ago. It's interesting back around twenty six point three million years ago a primary called igo lash kalala that means little catman, and sue, this primate just came out of came out of nowhere. Less known primates from the false record were about ten million years before this one. Where does creature come from? This idea is of like what we like to call ghost lineages animals. Does the kind of pop out of
nowhere with an evolution, and especially with primatology. Ask any good primatologists or biologists don't say we only know about ten percent of all primates known to the world. So that really brings in the ideas of like, let's look at here American, see if we could see primates evolving here in the more modern day of the fire scene and replace to see.
It's extremely interesting, man, especially the whole catman thing. When I was reading the book, I was like, oh wow, this is a new one for me and definitely learning a lot. And also I wanted to point out I was reading through I was being man, it would be cool if there are some pictures. He's describing the pictures, and then you get to the back there's some solid pictures. It's a great appendix in the back of pictures that are shouted out during the writing of it. So it's
got great encounters. It's got also great pictures, some of which I don't think I'd seen at least one of them before. Maybe I just wasn't looking in the right areas. But some really interesting stuff, the unrecognized primates that are called out in this book. Have you actually yourself been out to try to do any field where to look into these primates or try to see them for yourself, But.
Me, I have not. I've been in areas before that we've had signings. For instance, I've done research in East Texas with bigfoot, and there have been double monkey sidings in the same area. But a lot of these creatures, for instance, the gug wee, it's primarily seen in pots Canada, and recent sidings have been spreading into the more Mississippi River delta. But for me, field research is a secondhand step.
It's like I try to do it as much as I can, but being a full time educator and being very busy my schedule, field research is not a large effic of my research. A lot of it is the more academic side of it, looking at textbooks all day and looking at human and anatomy posts like Okay, like, what could these primates look like? And I've been in areas what they've been seen before, but actually researching them in the field, I have not yet.
We were talking about earlier before that in the pre interview that you had actually made it up to the Red River, Texas area and experience some interesting things, maybe something that was a little bit out of the ordinary. Would you mind sharing about that?
Of course, yes. I recalled Brown Springs. Good friends of mine, Texas Wesson and Jason McLean, researchers, were at the Texas Front Porch. They've been researching out there for years now, and they invited me out and I was like, yeah, let me come along. Because they've gotten the bigfoot signs out there. There's been dog man signs out there. There's a haunted cemetery on top of a hill with a natural spring to it. So I was like, okay, it's not there, spooky stay place. Let me go check it out.
And I was there with a couple of young guys, a good friend of mine, Nick, and there was one night we're like, okay, we had a thermal imager and we're like, let's burn the fields. Burned. The back of the field see if we've seen any thing pop up. And this is a phenomenon I've always heard of, but I've never experienced myself. We turned this one corner, we had all our windows down. We'll probably going to maybe
ten months per hour in this car. All of a sudden, old insects, old and noise has stopped out of nowhere. And we were driving and I referenced the guys, I'm like, it got quiet, isn't it. And we just listen and this you there's no sound at all. And there was a thermometer in the car, and we learn from the screen and from I belief like from like seventy six down to like fifty seven and like less of five minutes.
So we felt the temperature change, and you just have that weird feeling of like there's something here that doesn't want us here. And this is the phenomenon we've had occurred with like bigfoot, for bigfoot sidings, and this part of the property we were on has had a lot of bigfoot signings and past So this conclusive evidence, no, but it was a weird experience. And also on that same expedition, we were in the back part of property as well, and this is right along the Red River,
and I'll host texts. He said, yeah, this time of year usually if there's any sash watching the area down on the other side of the river on the high ground. And I'm not really sure what I heard, but I thought I heard about like a whoop, like almost like a like a howl in the distance, and then sound canine sound primate like, and it was coming from the other side of Red River, and I was like, I looked at the other guys that were with me, and we're like, they hear that. They're like, yeah, we heard
that too. Was it a possible auditory siding of a sash watch. It's possible, But I always try not to jump to conclusions. Because I was right on the edge of my hearing, I can't really make conclusions. But it did sound very primate like.
That's interesting. It's an area of where it comes up every once in a while, and there's some really intense things that can happen down near that area that have been reported. So maybe someday in the future I'll make it down there. Your viewpoint as a cryptozoologist when you're thinking of about this, You've stated in your book you
have all these unrecognized primates of North America. Your viewpoint of Bigfoot then, is it similar to how you're viewing these other things or are you viewing Bigfoot a little bit different as well than that?
Oh, I viewed fast Watch very similarly. Like stated earlier, this third book is a kind of a sequel to my second book, Sasqatch Free History, because with Fast Watched, I come at it from very much I'm all fashioned, I'm an aper. I believe it's an unknown ae unorganized ABC in North America. I don't believe it's a human species.
Pigs, a society who will be right back after these messages.
The anatomy doesn't shouldn't suggest the human species, and also lack of culture. And in my second book, Stashwatch Preehistory, I came out of Shashwatch from very much a prystal galintons because my biggest issue with Bigfoot siding is just the size of this creature. These animals are seen to be like eight to nine feet tall, and if anyone knows anything about zoology, animals that are larger, animals that are most specialized usually die out quicker. Look at the
megafinal species of classed in North America. They are almost all of them extinct. I look at sasqulagic not through a modern lens, but through a peristal galons. This is truly a piece of classis in megafauna that most likely, thanks to its intelligence and thanks to its adaptations, has been able to survive into the modern day. Like our reference in the book, people don't realize that grizzly bears have been around for like more than ten million years.
Grizzly bears lived alongside mamis why can a sasquatch other than the ideas like what a sasquatch evolutionary history? Where could it have come from? Because these animals are animals. Every animal has their natural history CRYPTI all known species. I speculate on where these animals came from. What is their morphology from, like sightings, what's the behavior set? What can we get from sightings and what we see? And
also what is their ecology? If these are natural species living in the world, they have to fit in some type of niche. Are they at apex creditor? They have omnivore? Are they a frugivore? But sasquatch and a lot of these unknown primates they were very much apex omnible. They're not a hyperconnivore. They're not like a cat or dog, but they're very adaptable. They eat a wide variety of things.
You can tell by the dentition. For instance, when people referencing sasquatch, I've heard eyewitnesses talk about kids calling Lincoln log teeth because they're very human like teeth. From our own dentation, we can suspect, yeah, these animals are most likely highly adaptable with meat, hard nuts, stuff like that would having grinding molars. Because one bigger aspect of biology, not all that people look at is dentition, is a teeth. If you know how animals teeth look like, you can
speculate on what that animal eats. You can speculate on their niche and also how they probably look like. So that's one thing I try to look at with sasquatch primarily is like the ideas of like their biology, because this is truly a biological.
Species, something that I have tried to trying to wrap my mind around how I feel about it, just because as I go along the last few years talking to people daily, but also starting to go out to different areas and experience things as an individual that their viewpoint of Bigfoot is primarily I would probably even say one
hundred percent that it is an ape. How do you deal with reports where there have been individuals that say, experience something that I can't explain, or heard something, or there seems to be something related to these reports that are not within the normal realm of science.
Yeah, the more wu aspect of this field that has come out in recent years, Yeah, that's an aspect that I bring into my research. Like, for instance, a couple of weeks ago, I did an interview with a Wes Germer of Sasquatch Chronicles, and he brought up the loup, Like, what about all this aspect? And in my honest opinion, it's just it's not where my research is. I acknowledge that the phenomena does occur, but it's like trying to
have me make an opinion on quantum physics. If I don't know it, I'm not going to make an opinion on it. My research is primarily based on zoology and physical sciences. Yes, there is other phenomena occurring, but my research doesn't go into it. So it's just hard to make really an opinion on it. I acknowledge that there's other events occurring around these creatures being seen around the world,
especially with sasquatch phenomena. But even like my good friends texts Wes and Jason mccleanbring up what if there's different phenomena occurring but with the same face, Like what if there's something else occurring here that looks like sasquatch but isn't the sasquatch. And that's one thing I've bring in with my research as well, like, Okay, there's other Like with me being a general cryptois logist, I just don't
do Bigfoot. I do all types of creatures like from Bigfoot to walk the sponsor to I've had thunderbird sidings, mothman, dog men, and researching these other cryptids it makes me think like, yeah, there is something paranormal occurring, But with sasquatch, there's there's too much for the fisial side, there's too much for it being some type of biological species to try to disprove it being something supernatural, Like it makes sense biologically, so why would we throw the baby out
with the bath water? Once phenomenon start occurring.
Very interesting, Yeah, it'll be I think we man I don't even know what's going to happen in twenty twenty five. To be honest, it feels like there's so much I don't know. I hear a lot of things, and there's a lot of behind the scenes research that's going on right now. I man, I don't know. Maybe it's just me being overly positive, and I would hope that this is the year where we get some really cool stuff that comes out, maybe evidence wise, I think all of
us hope that. It feels like it may have been a while since there's been something substantial, But have you Are there any things of evidence that come to mind over the last few years that you've you've seen and thought were pretty cool.
A piece of evidence For me, There's been a couple of signings I've been interesting. For instance, I'm trying to think of one signing I'm bringing forward right now, but like a lot of signings recently have been very indicative of like a lot of primate behavior. For instance, in Texas come for years back, there were and I believe this by Houston, there were and the story in the news is about a escaped chimpanzee out on the loose,
and I was like, okay, Eskate chimpanzee. That brings my interest and looking at it, I'm like, wait, these people are reference to a chimpanzee that's six foot tall. I don't know what they're seeing, but I don't think that the chimpanzee is like a lot of things like that. For instance. Of course, one big piece of evidence that I'm looking at a little bit more now thanks to a good friend of mine, is stick structures down here in San Antonio, a good friend of mine, Rob Nichols,
American Bigfoot. He's been bringing out more ideas of like these stick structures of Saskquats building, these fairly elaborate structures that don't look like they were made by humans. And I've gone out in the field with Rod and I'm seeing these in person. I'm like, no, this this is something peculiar. This is something that this isn't human made.
That's like a piece of evidence with sass watch. I've never really looked into soil seeing it in person, and I'm like, Okay, no, like this might be something I might want put a little bit more time and effort into researching.
Absolutely, I'm glad that we were able to bring up Rod because I was just about to. I just had Rod Nichols on the show a few episodes back from Barrett County Bigfoot, of course, from around the same area where you're at in San Antonio. After that episode, there are many people that reached more than a few I'd say that reached out saying yeah, I am also having some weird stuff happen, sightings, class be stuff just around
these different areas of San Antonio. Have you, besides going out with Rod in the field and looking at stick structures, have you run into anyone who's had encounters down there or been able to have any communication with people besides the stick structure related things.
I've had some signings. I talked. One interesting thing that's been bringing out a lot of eye witnesses recently is right now in s Antonio, Me and Brod and did a good friend of Miniskers, Jordan, another podcast of Curious Realm. We're doing an event series here in San Antonio call it Imposium of the Strange. It's based at a local restaurant and pretty much what it is, it's like a
mini conference every two months. We've brought out Ken Gehard before, we've brought out Alien Ductee, we've brought out the Clean Brothers, the ghost hunting like the ghost researchers, and when we're doing these events, we've had a couple of people come up to us like, yeah, like I saw this, Oh, I've heard of this before. And I've been hearing a lot more witness accounts and also not just bigfoot accounts, like, for instance, a couple of weeks ago, I got a
siding with someone referenced the Lachuso and their siding. I know I've gotten even a dog man report in a couple of days ago. Actually, So I believe right now it's helpful us doing these events and talking to the community a little bit more, because then how many times do people see something weird? But the who do I go to? We're not going to go to the cops for this, They're not gonna they might not even hear for cryptos of all, just until they go to an event.
Here's someone talking about a big point. Oh, I had a siding, So I'm excited to see what else comes about of this. But yeah, I've had a couple I've heard of a couple a couple of dog man imports in this area. Before your front researcher based in Santonio's well, a guy named Aaron Geese, very well known for his Texas dog Maned Triangles book. Of course, Rod Nichols a Rod gets sighting is a lot of people in the area, like people have been seeing santhalg in the Bernie area
and San Antonio. And it's interesting to me because I've even brought this up iron before that, so that's watching Santonio does very sounds very unlikely, but there is evidence for it. What I believe is happening down here in San Antonio is that we are a very large city, but we have a lot of creek, creek and wattle waterways. Rod brings up this a lot of creek in his research.
I think these animals are migratory. They're moving through San Antonio, moving through these areas, but they're not consisting there, They're not staying there lives, And that brings up the ideas of Bigfoot being migratory in the first place. Like I believe these animals are highly migratory and they have very large ranges because if you think of like how much calories this animal would need, how many square miles as animal would need, Like we compare it to a black bear,
because this is an indicated species for sasquatch. But I'm being up that they will probably have a couple hundred miles in a home range, and also they will probably need the caloric needs of like a large grizzly bear. Being one area consistently doesn't sound likely for an animal like that, because if you look at bears and other animals like that, they have large home ranges as well.
I think satisquatch would be the same way. They're moving through areas, moving using creek ways because think Legendimbary Creek. What did they say, they always follow the creeks. I believe these animals use these waterways to get to areas that they need to get in to resources and hide away from humans as well.
Now I agree with you as definitely with that statement. Are there you know, any food resources that would be available for them around the city of San Antonio that you found?
Yeah, we actually have a large whitetail deer population. Like literally last night I was driving on a road called Acadochis this is the road in the middle of town, let you know, and almost had a deer while driving home. Because we have a large deer population. Even I lived maybe ten minutes away from downtown and I had a whitetail deer being seen less than five minutes away from here.
We also have, of course raccoons positives things like that, and also we have a lot of areas where these animals can hide away from and even in some of the creek creek ways we have here, we do have fish and also aquatic life they can survive off of. Like even I think people have seen like things like crawfish and crawdads in the creeks if these animals could
possibly try to survive off of them. But I think primarily they're going after white tailed deer in this area, and even I thought I even bring up ideas of maybe these more urban areas maybe they would go after maybe fail dogs, the fairl cats, because if you're lost omnivore and it's smaller than you, it's good. It could be a food resource if necessary.
Yeah, it the that reminds me of an email that I had just gotten in the other day about unfortunately with some of these situations in dogs and cats do disappear, larger dogs as well. It's it's a very interesting thing. I don't think a lot of people like to talk about it because it's one of those sides of it where it's not the pretty side or the fun side. There's sometimes repercussions from these creatures being around that might be things that we might not want to necessarily deal with,
the loss of pets or things of that nature. Maybe even people too, I don't know, but that's a whole different.
Like I've even made jokes of like because when me and Rod have gone out and seen these stick structures, we've seen like human dwellings nearby, like homeless people living in these parks that we see these stick structures. I'm just sometimes I looked at him and I'm like, I wonder what they've seed and also where did they go, because a lot of times this stuff's been abandoned, and
it's like I'm like, maybe fast walks got them. But it's like as a joke, but also you've got to think of these aren't the big cudly pets people sometimes think of the mass, aren't the benevolent gods of the forest. These are wild animals and people have brought up They're safe that any animal, even a pet, if you make them angry enough to put them in the corner, will bite you. So these creatures are large omnivores and can't be dangerous towards people and pets and things like that.
Pigs a society who will be right back after these messages, And that's.
Something people don't want to bring up because I think it just brings out the more negative side of the field people see. That brings out the more like the fear mongering of Bigfoot to an extent of like cryptosology in general, the more fantastical side, the more Oh, these are a bunch of monster hunters going out and looking for monsters of woods. It's like, No, these are real life creatures living in the woods. But like any wild animal, it could be highly dangerous, especially with the size of
it is and the intelligence. Like I think I've heard Cliff Bergman say before, if these animals wanted to kill people, we want to have a National park Service right now. Like, they could be dangerous, But do they go out and a proparch to really go after people? They unlikely because I think there's long enough to know. Oh, if one person goes missing, soon enough you have a search party, and now there's one hundred people in the woods, so maybe they have intelligence to note things like that.
Bigfoot is such an interesting topic because there are so many different ways to look at it in different viewpoints, and everyone that has experienced something has their own bias and way that they look at the world. It's just to me, it's a fascinating topic for sure. Yourself, being a cryptozoologist, you already brought up that, yes, you're not just looking into Bigfoot or these unrecognized primates. You're looking
into all sorts of different things out there. Do you have a favorite one that you know if you were able to, like, let's look into this one. Is there one that always brings your focus back?
Well, that one probably One crypto that's always bought a lot of interest to me was the Morosi. The morosi is an unknown, like possible lion species that has been seen in Kenya before these were known as the spotted lions. Loan Comen bought these apple a lot back in his early research, and parts of West Kenya people are seeing
lions but without manes and spotted coats. And this is a crypto that brings up my interest, not because how fantastical it is or how it's like a monstrage because of how realistic it is, Like there's a lot of cryptives around the world people don't realize and don't know about that could very much be real. Like, for instance, down in South America, people reference to the map and Grawy. A lot of people reference to map and Grawy is
a big foot like creature. But when you really look at the signings, people are referencing something more similar to a ground sloth, something that existed in prehistory. Even an interesting aspect of it was a lot of Native American
stories too. Some Native American stories reference animals that they reference as giant bears with giant claws that could stand up on two feet, and we're very like smelly animals, and these Native American stories and looking at it, it's like they're not referencing giant bears, referencing what sounds like a giant ground sloth. Back in the day. With me, especially in cryptozoology, I'm very much I look at it from a preforklans. I'm a very much a fan of
mamifs and ground sloths and smileotons. I literally had a smilot on skull on my desk. So I'm speaking to you right now I try to look at a lot of these cryptos in around the world that have more prys folk aspect. I think also another one I would
love to go after is the Queensland tiger. This is a unknown people think of it as a feline being seen out in Queensland, Australia, But when you look at the signs of these creatures, they reference a striped body almost like they said that almost like almost a human like hand to it add around it head like a feline and it climbs trees. What they're referencing is an amalcarthyicalio Ta Carnifax was a what we called the malsupial lion.
It was about the size of a mountain lion and it was a massupial that was related to a koala or kangaroo. But if you look at picture of Thaklea, you would think that it's a cat. That's another great example of converging evolution. So that's also another cryptot. It seems awfully realistic that I would love to try to go after in future research.
You bring up something that was actually on my mind because I was trying to remember if we talked about it last time, and I'm just gonna bring it up just in case. Something that I've found over the years that i've done this coming up on we're past five now, I've found that there seems to be almost you can tie threads together, that some of these sightings of cryptids seem to be related to animals that have a prehistoric background. It feels like there's something there, but I'm not quite
sure how to how it would tie all together. But you mentioned the ground slots, and I mean there's sightings of those even in I believe it Sherman County, New York back in the day, and there's your thunderbirds and your your I believe there's even maybe Willie mammoths sightings every once in a while way up in northern Alaska. Do you feel like, man, I feel like you could
take it a few different ways. Is are there maybe areas where these creatures just didn't go extinct and they're hanging out like the Headless Valley up in the Northwest Territories.
Actually, I think there could be reaches that these animals could have survived for instances. Yeah, you bring up to the Honi Valley, the Headless Valley of Alasta. It's interesting because that area, people reference animals that should have gone extinct a long time ago. The natives referencing reference the giant bear that they've seen that has longer legs than a grizzly bear, that's much larger than grizzly bear, that has a short face. They're literally referencing Octotis dims, the
short face bear. And another animal being seen in this area is something called the wa heat. The Wahila is a giant like white wolf that they're seen. But it's interesting because this white wolf has a long, almost alter like tail day reference, and it's built more like a bear. It's very stocky, very much like a mix of a wolf and a bear. If you look at prehistory, we have an animal called literally called bear dog, so Anphracioni day.
The Anphracioni day wore a creature that's found in Miocene and Plascene in North America that was morphologically very similar to Ursudinians and Canaans. They were possibly one of the last common ancestors between these two groups of caniforms. And these native tribes are referencing an amphision when they shouldn't know what amphision is, and they tell stories also in the Hani Valley. The Jahila is like the apex predator
in that area. But they referenced there's another predator that the Wahila.
Is scared of, and it's a lion. They reference it's a lion like almost looks like a mountain lion, but it's like double the size of a regular mountain lion. It's like, decide, like a launch bear. What they could be referencing up there too is the.
American lion, the American lion, and there at Leoatris was a lion the size of a black bear. It was truly gigantic, one of the probabably largest feline species to ever exist, And maybe this creature could be surviving in parts of North America into this day. For instance, I believe I think it was like in the nineteen nineties, people referencing bison being killed out in a Yellowstone by some predative people didn't know about. They look like some
type of a giant cat. Maybe this could be very small populations of relic American lions. Maybe American troll face bear could still be surviving in some areas of like Alaska in Canada and even like bring up sasquatch sasquats could be like another one these relic megafinal species that hasn't been able to survive. We're just it seemed more by humans. Or maybe even I bring up the idea of like maybe Bigfoot gets a lot of attention because that's how
human like it is, how antipo morphic it is. Like what would someone out to hear a story about a giant gorilla like creature that looks like a human in the woods or a giant lion. A lot of people would go towards the fantastical, go towards the big foot side of it. So maybe that's why the creatures like sasquatch around the world get so much more attention than other cryptics, because it's how human they are. Like antipomophism does exist. We like to put ourselves into the natural world.
Maybe that's why a lot of creatures like Bigfoot and map and Grari, the Mande Barun, Thetutu, the Yeti, the year, and the wood woolfs, they're who the But all these different creatures being feet around the world that are very human like, maybe these are the cryptids that get a lot of the attention because it's how human like they are. We see ourselves in these creatures.
It's extremely interesting to think about. It's one of these rabbit trails. I allow myself to think about the whole prehistoric cryptid connection, but then I always come back to Bigfoot, of course, but it feels like if there are people encountering short face bear in these areas, we're probably not hearing about it because they're just being It feels like if you encounter a short face bear, you're not probably you know, living, You're going to be taken.
Yeah, yeah, I even I talk about like how many people see these cryptives but aren't seen afterwards, like and parts of like especially in the Honey Valley. It's a dangerous era in the first place because it's just the environmental is and also it's really notice the Headless Valley for a reason. Several people have gone up missing in that area, and the McLeod brothers, the ones that did lose their heads, we don't know why did that happen.
And the natives in the area reference a creature comet in the comedy these very oh like these mountain ogres they reference in the area that are very human like, that are very human like that some people even have speculated it could be surviving Neanderthals, but I believe could be this maybe even never subset of fast Latch, but like, yeah, there's been fashal change in the area, so yeah, it's a very interesting thing to look at.
I do want to bring up a course. If this is new info for people, I would really recommend that you check out the books by Hammerson Peters, of course, who has done so much legwork of categorizing all of
these stories about this area. And not a guy that I've been able to talk to yet on the show, but maybe someday I'd love to that invites I always open, but just another great author, a gentleman who takes the time to categorize and put things in a place where we can read them about the legends of Canada and
also of the Headless Valley as well. There are there have been no I really don't expect you don't feel like you need to know this, But have there been any recent expeditions that have been going on in that area that you've heard of, Ryan.
Not that I know of. I think one expedition I know of happened back into I believe the fifties, and I know that was reference to Labahams and Peters at his research, because he's an author that I love reading. I've read all of his books. I know you ever just expeditions in the fifties, I believe in the sixties. I don't think there's been anything recently because I know it's a national park now, it's a protected by the Canadian government.
Yeah, you look up photos of that place. It is just it seems like one of the wildest places on Earth up there, the rapids, the waterfalls definitely would be one of those unforgiving places that you might not get too many chances if you're up there. But going back to Beyond Bigfoot. When you were writing this book, was there a goal in mind that you would want readers to be able to attain after reading this, or something that you wish they would take away after reading this.
Book, like my goal or like what I won't be able to take away? It's like would any books I write or what anything? Is that education? It's about learning new things and opening up your eye to different possibilities. Like for instance, like you reference yourself that there's a lot of things in here that you've probably not a lot of people have heard about or maybe've heard of out once. Maybe we've heard maybe you've heard a name
devil monkey, but you never knew what it was. And maybe you've heard the name Doug Wee, but you really didn't know the research behind it. What I would want people to take away from this is learning about these creatures. And also one thing I always like to do is make your own hypothesis, make your own summaries, like to bring it out like maybe heck, maybe they know Ryan could be wrong on these hypotheses he puts out, but
this is a good counter argument. This is a good counter hypothesis instead, Like I love getting challenged on my own hypotheses and own ideas because it really brings out a lot of like high level thinking in the first place. Like for instance, my nine to five job, I'm an educator. When my when it comes to cryptoserology, it's very much coming from a perspective of education, of learning and trying to teach people about these creatures and let them make
their own judgments own summaries on it. Like the three main creatures that I go over is the North American eight, Dougree, and the devil monkey. Like I would love for people to learn about these creatures and maybe even go and do to further research, like, for instance, myself with this book my forwards written by the legendary Low and Coleman. Loan Coleman's one of the only real research I could think of that do North American eight research.
Big for society will be right back after these messages.
So I reached out to him and he said, yeah, I'll gladly help you. This bunked and he wrote my forward and it was a really a weird moment because it's me working with a childhood hero of mine. So
it was a very much a surreal moment. And like, that's what I would love people to do, is maybe like after you read a book, maybe like if you can find an author, like reach out to the author, like reach out to me, like, hey, like I like this part, but about this in my own sighting, like go out there and do further research because reading a book is great, but if that book really had connection to you, you go and read even further on or even maybe learn a little bit more about our prehistory.
Because I bring up like persform nor from America and like earlier to please adapt forms and I'm on my forms the preystal Privates and America, and people have not really heard about a lot like learning new things and maybe furthering your own research. That's what I would really like people like kind of would have to read this book.
After you released this book, did you get people reaching out to saying, like, you know what, I read this and realized, Hey, I've actually experienced one of these things, and I just didn't realize.
It I have. I have not had any experience yet, which is I'm like what it is. It's pretty much just it's a fairly new book. It's been out only a couple of months now. And also I begin trying to get it into reviews of like authors hands like I get a good copy. I gave Comedy Good Friends of Mine, Ken Gearhard Love Blackbird, give copies to Jeff Meldrom and things like that. But like I've talked a other researchers have been like, yeah, like I've had people
reference these bigfoot like creatures, wo muzzles. I've always out
there a dog man. Now I think they could be a gug grey and I'm like cool, like and they've literally gone back and talked to the witness and said like okay, like let me get a little bit more details on the muzzle, and they're like, yeah, this sounds more like this gugrey creature or I thineven I've had a researcher out East Texas reference They're like, yeah, like people out here seeing baboons, And I was like baboons, Like how big with these baboons They're like like the
size of a human. Like that sounds very similar to a double monkey. So I bring out They're like, yeah, maybe a lot of these sidings that people thought were bigfoot or people thought were baboons, maybe old chimpanzees even
were actually these cryptids being seen. Like for instance, I think when I was younger, I saw a I think it was a Monster Quest episode and it was about chimpanzees in North America, and the whole episode was over people releasing chimpanzees out in the woods and people then seeing chimpanzees in the woods, And I'm like, looking after this book, I mean, what if some of these chimpanzees
sidies bought chimpanzees. Maybe they were if they were these North American apes or maybe even young sasquatch that people misidentified as a known species it's weird to think about We're always seeing cryptids as being missidentifications of known species. What are some of these known species we're actual missidentifications of cryptids. Like, it's a kind of it's a perspective that I think not a lot of people think of.
Like it's very much a paradigm changer. A lot of times when you do research like this, No.
I think so too. In this book will definitely it'll either give you new information or it'll challenge the way that you've been thinking so far. And I think that it is healthy to do that, to learn from things you read. Thank you for putting this this book Beyond Bigfoot together, Ryan, and it's it's been a pleasure having you on the show today. O Rian. What's the best way to pick up this book?
I would recommend Amazon. If you look at theron at the words Bigfoot, this book Beyond Before We'll come up. My second book, Slash Watched The Prehistory of Delivering Legend will come up. But also my first book, Critics Over the World, So yeah, you can pick them up on Amazon. Also, these two both my last two recent books well also released by EWE Light's publishing company. They have a website that is done by a good friend of mine, David Weaderley,
an well known cryptozoologist. If you reach out to their website, they also have copies on there as well.
Fantastic after reading this listeners, if you have an account that is you're like wow that lines up with the Gugway or the Devil Monkey. Is there a way for people to reach out to you, Ryan, to share maybe their thoughts about the book, or if they've experienced things that you've written about in the book.
Yes, of course. I always have my social media is open and ready for people to reach out to or I have a Facebook Ran Edwards on Facebook. I have an Instagram page are Edwards at Crypto twenty five. If you look at Brian Edwards on Instagram, I'm there. Also.
I do have my email Ran Edwards dot crypto at gmail dot com.
Rand Drew's is one word. You can reach out to my email, and I'm always open to people talking to me, like people that have maybe good reviews for the books, or even bad reviews for the book, so I can maybe fixed mistakes I've made, or eyewitnesses or just people that have fans of cryptozoology in general, like I love talking about the weird and the change, so reach.
Out fantastic And before we head out completely, Ryan, are there any other things that you would want listeners to know before we end our time together today.
That's just that, like always question, always do your research, and what I always say is to never stop exploring, never stop wondering what really is out there because the second we think we have all the answers, we don't. Science doesn't have all the answers need us, Cryptozoology or any other field like the world is a mixture of different things. Never stop exploring, never stop questioning, because without questions, you will never make discoveries.
I love it very well said and Ryan, thank you again for coming on the show.
Of course, it's a pleasure being on.
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it's all about sharing the show wherever you can. If you've had a bigfoot encounter related to the following or know someone who has, please reach out to me at Bigfoot Society at gmail dot com or pass on my email. Here's the list. Number one encounters from Franklin County, Texas. Number two encounters from the entire state of Iowa. Number three encounters from Oakridge, Oregon or the surrounding area. Number four, any individuals that know about bigfoot being flown off after
the Mount Saint Helens eruption. Number five. Individuals that have had a bigfoot encounter while in the military. Number six those that have had a bigfoot encounter in the southern New Hampshire or north central Massachusetts area, including Franklin County, Massachusetts. Number seven individuals that have had a bigfoot encounter in a Bible camp or boy Scout camp setting. Number eight individuals that have had bigfoot try to enter their house
forcibly while they were living inside. Number nine individuals that have actively have a bigfoot living on their property. And lastly, any sightings that are in the Watchitaw National Forest area of Oklahoma or Arkansas. A special thank you to all the bigfoot Society, Patreon and YouTube channel members. It's your support that helps keep the show going and I extremely appreciate it. I'll see you back next time. Listeners. Saswath
Summerfest this year July eleventh through the twelfth. It's going to be fantastic. July eleventh through twelfth in Greenwaters Park and Oakridge, Ore again and listeners, if you're going to go, you can get a two day ticket for the cost of one if you use the code b f S like Bigfoot Society, but BFS and I'll get used some off your cost. Priscilla was nice enough to provide that for my listeners.
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