Brent Thomas of the Paranormal Portal. Welcome to Bigfoot Crossroads. How you doing. I'm doing brilliant, man, Thanks for having me on. I'm thrilled that we finally get a chance to sit down and have a conversation. Brother. Yeah, for sure, We've been going back and forth in the online weirdo community for a while. Now I'm glad to have you here and hear your voice for a change on big Foot Crossroads. Man, it's awesome.
Well, it really is cool to be here. You know, you and I have been friends in in the same orbit as we were talking about just before recording. It's like, you know, we've known of each other and known each other for years, but it's just, you know, life happens, and so I'm really am thrilled to be on here with you. Brother. I've been listening to you long before I ever had a show. I was listening to you and the boys. So it's a pleasure to be here. Man. I do have to ask, you know, I apologize in
advance. I just got back from being out a stay for a week and I'm fighting a cold, so you're good man. Well, I might get froggy, so I apologize to all the listeners out there. I'm not currently in puberty, but I may sound like it's okay man, we're here for you. I thank you very much. So yeah, it's good to be here. So how long have you been doing the Portal now? Oh god? I started the Portal as internet radio show in April of twenty sixteen,
so I guess it's seven years now, right, Yeah? Is that right? You're an old man? Yeah, and my mask getting worse, That's why I asked. But yeah, I started out then and it was an internet radio show for probably a year, just over a year, and then I decided to spiderweb onto YouTube as well, So then I started in twenty
seventeen. I started on my YouTube channel and just kind of experimented with things and fun fact, I started out doing reaction videos before reaction videos were a thing, but it was before the common use was kind of identified, so I kept getting copyright strike, so I had to quit doing that and I quit doing it completely, and then just kind of melded it into a topic show, the variety kind of show covering all the different paranormal stuff where there's
cryptosdoology, aliens, UFOs, goes, strange phenomena and I just really have had a blast tune it and and so I kept doing that for a while and then it was it was actually kind of funny. I was I was doing this show now. As I said, I listened to you for years and you were you were one of my staples. And then also would listen to of course Sasquatch Chronicles and I would sit I worked in a cubicle at the time doing marketing and stuff, and I had headphones on and would always
listen to, you know, both of these shows. And I was doing my show on YouTube one time and suddenly I got a live call into my show and it was West. It's like, hey, I's all over because it was like, oh my god, you know, it's like a bucket list here. So he talked and then afterwards he contacted me online. It said, you know, look, why why isn't this a podcast? I'm like, I don't know, And so that's how it became a podcast. It was it was just kind of inspired his advice, and I was like,
yeah, you know, I'll give it a shot. I mean, of course I'd listen to podcasts, but it never really thought, well, do I have a podcast. I just had a show, so U and it's been really cool. It's been wonderful to do it and to have an opportunity to talk to so many incredible people about their experiences, seeing the experiences through their eyes, and you know, I guess the whole journey has been kind of like me just trying to understand this stuff because there's something going on
in our world. There's a lot of things going on in our world that's largely ignored by our you know, traditional Western thinking, but it's happening. People are seeing eight ten feet tall hairy creatures and such, and they're seeing UFOs, which is finally starting to get vindication now, thank god, you
know. And there's having ghost experiences and and so I just like you know, and having had several of my own of different different experiences, so I was like, I just want to understand this if it's possible too, and I I really don't know that it is, But at least every time I talk to somebody that has experiences, I think I'd learned something new every time, because everybody sees things a little differently, and somebody I talked to may
just come out and say something they saw the event that's very similar to events that have happened to hundreds of other people, but they saw it in a unique way and they'll pull some detail. I was like, oh, well that's interesting. So it's like this ongoing game of connected dots kind of. But you know, that's my personal motivation in doing it. But I just feel really honored to have a platform and to have a voice, and to
also be able to help people, you know. I think it's really cool that some people have been carrying this stuff around for decades, you know, without the outlet, and then they'll reach out and that you know, hey, I'd like to come on your show. They'll come on, and then afterwards getting emails or calls from them like thank you so much. I've been carrying this for years, and I feel so much lighter now. It's like
they're carrying around these bricks, you know. So it's been really really humbling and really fascinating and an amazing experience, you know, as you know, being involved in all of this, it's it's quite an adventure, it is. So did you you had your own events happened to you prior to you doing your show and everything, so that was kind of your motivation for having an interest in these type of topics, like what happened? Why did you
experience? Well? Yeah, how much time we got mad? Because I actually, Okay, so my first experience that I can recall, and I don't believe there's any that that happened prior to this as far as supernatural crypto, you know, forty en or whatever. Um, But what had happened
was I was hiking. I lived in, of all places, southeastern Minnesota along the Mississippi River valley, and where I grew up was budded right next to a state park, a state four and so all through my young years, myself and friends that would be visiting us very rural, so I didn't have people near all the time, but when they would come in during the summers and stuff, we'd go adventure on the bluff and stuff. And I think I was about fourteen years old at this time, and I was hiking
up there on the bluff, which is oddly enough called Rattlesnake Bluff. True true story. But um, we're hiking up there, and we've been up there on the bluff and it's you know, it stated forest, it's all rough land, there's nuts, you know any any there's houses within eyeshot near, but not anywhere near where we actually were, because it's again the housing
area butts right up to the forest. So we hike up onto this bluff and we're dorking around up there all day, pretty much all afternoon whatever, and it started to get later in the day and we're like, yeah, we gotta we gotta find our way down because it's gonna get dark quick and we're gonna get stuck up in these woods with no light. Um. So we started working our way down and we're going down this this it's kind of a ravine. It's like a dry run, looks like a stream bed,
but it only has water when the melt off happens in the spring. So over the you know, hundreds or thousands of years is carved out this stream bed and with waterfalls and stutch on the way down. But at this point it was blown dry. And so we're coming down. We got to a point and not I didn't see anything unusual. Then, nothing was out of the ordinary, just another day. And we stopped at this one point because
you kind of got apply your course. We go down the dry riverbed and you know, there's lots of rocks and stuff, and it can be kind of treacherous. So we stopped, took a breather, and we're kind of looking ahead at the path, and suddenly right behind us and and I mean within like eight feet and above maybe by a couple or few feet, was this deep, menacing, rumbling growl. And I was like, oh, my God. And I'm telling you at I swear to God. I grew
up in this area. I'd lived there my whole life. The biggest thing we had in that area was white till deer, and they don't growl. Now, at the time, I didn't know what this could be. I had no concept of it because whatever was making this noise was so big and it was just powerful. And I'm here to tell you it, it vibrated my body as much as I heard the sound. It was just that kind
of power in this in this noise, and I was absolutely frozen. Now, in a lot of times in experiences, people talk about, you know, infrasound or being zapped or whatever, that they couldn't move. I could move, but I was so afraid because in my mind, whatever was making that sound, I was sure it was about to kill me. I mean, I just thought I didn't want to do anything to provoke anything. Now.
Interestingly enough, my friend had the same exact reaction. We just both froze and did and it just kept and I can't even imitate it and do it justice. It was just so deep and profound, and I didn't dare look because I guess I thought I was going to die and I didn't want to know what the thing killing me was going to look like at least, you know, I was just gonna be like, you know, I hope this is quick. I don't know how this is going to go. But
it was so menacing, it was so powerful. But finally, after nothing changing for a few seconds, I'm like, what the hell is that? And he goes, I don't know, but we have to get the hell out of here. And so they say fight, you know, fight or flight. You don't want to run because you don't want to trigger this prague response. But you know, I was a fourteen year old kid, and whatever there was, there was nothing in the fight category there for me.
It was that was a foregone conclusion. It was like a Q tip here, you know, And so I knew that, you know, fighting was not an option the only thing left is flight, and so we took off and it didn't pursue, It didn't make any other noise, but we just took off and went downhill, never looked back, and we got we I mean, we must have run about three quarters of a mile through this rocky
terrain getting the hell out of there. And when we got to the road, you know, just turned around finally to look and nothing was there. Nothing was coming, no sounds, nothing. And I carried that forever because all I knew is we had raccoon, we had fox, we had the occasional coyote. Sometimes stories of like mountain lions or whatever, but only legendary, but nothing that was so big that it was actually so much taller than us and able to resonate a sound so menacing and deep, and it was
horrifying. It was to this day. It was the most scared I've ever been in my entire life. And I carried that for years, and it took me out of the woods. I used to go up in those woods religiously through the warm months, and it took me out of those woods for a couple or a couple of years or more. But you know, finally, as a kid, and you know, you want to go hiking, you want to go do things we know, and nothing else happening. I just kind of dismissed it and went back to, you know, being a
part of the land that I lived in. But I didn't know what it was, and it was such a weird thing, and it just sat in the back of my mind, like what is that? What was that? What could that have been? And I'm really grateful that I wasn't alone, because I think anytime you have an experience like that, you second guess yourself, well, like did that really happen? Was that really something that occurred
or could it have been my imagination? Could it have been you know, some weird sound that I just misunderstood, or you know, But having both of us there was really at the time I was comforting because I was thinking, well, maybe I'm faster than him. But but I didn't know what to do with it. And you know, I heard I heard about bigfoots. I heard about that because I used to watch In Search of and it's kind of dating me now you're kind of get an idea how old I am.
But with Leonard Dimoy and he talked about big foods, but it was something in the Pacific Northwest. I'm in the middle of you know, in the middle of corn country basically down there, and so I had no no, no reference point for what this could be, and it was just something
that I carried for years. And it wasn't until the first time that I heard a sound that reminded me of it was when I went to the movie theater and saw the movie Jurassic Park and it's the part where they're all kind of trapped in those cars and that big t Rex is kind of, you know, wandering around, and then it sees the flashlight and it comes down, growling, just down to their level, looking in the car to those kids, and it does this, and my whole body broke out in chills,
and all my hairs stood on and it's like, oh, I remember that, I remember something just like that, and it really brought me back to that moment. So then I started, you know, full disclosure, I started watching Finding Bigfoot, and I started to learn that this wasn't a Pacific Northwest thing was it was everywhere. People are seeing these things everywhere, and it was like, oh, my god, is that possible in you know where I live. Could there have been one there or some there or
something and it never occurred to me. I went after this realization happened, I went back up into those woods, and I I, you know, I know there's there's a lot of controversy around structures and around tree breaks, because if you don't see it happened, how do you really attribute it to a creature or a being? You know, I mean, you really can't. I went up into those same woods, started looking around and found like a dugout structure with all broken sticks, nothing cut up up in that hill.
And then I found like a six inch round maple sapling that was broke about four feet off down to the ground, with no deadfall anywhere near it. And this is, you know, this is an untouched land, so it's not like somebody's out there logging and knocked down a tree and then drug it out. But but it was just and I'm like, well, you know, they're very pliable, they don't usually just bend and break. Yeah. Yeah. So then I was like, wow, maybe it really was.
Maybe that's what I encountered that day, And so I don't have the luxury saying yeah I had a big, bigfoot encounter, but I hadn't encountered with something huge, And the only thing I can think that that makes sense is that it could be a big foot, you know. So I guess it was kind of good to be able to give it a potential identity. But can I say it was big footnote because I didn't look. But I didn't want to die either, so I made the red call. Yeah,
you know it just sitting here hearing you talk about it. You know, I've never heard you tell this story. Someone had mentioned to me at some point, Hey, you should ask Brent about his bigfoot story, like he's had a possible bigfoot encounter, and I've just never taught to you about it until now. But the way you're describing it, a couple things come to
mind. Being around that age myself at the time, me and my cousin were exploring this area on the outskirts of an extremely small town, a town with a population of around a hundred people at the time, and we followed this long, you know, dirt road. It had the trees growing over on each side. It kind of went around a curve and as you came around the curve, it emptied out. It was actually a driveway, a really long driveway. For this the most haunted looking house I've ever seen in
my life. You know, like Leatherface is going to come busting out of the door at any moment. But Leatherface didn't come busting out of the door. What did come busting out was a rottweiler, not on a leash, not on a chain or anything. And that dog, it started barking and kind of trotting towards us. And as you were saying, at that age, there is no fight, there is only flight, right, And I
remember turning around and just hauling ass as fast as I could. Yeah, And the next thing I know, my cousin is just sprinting by me, just leaving me in the dust entirely, and I was just waiting for that dog to clamp down on the back of my leg and kill me. Luckily, obviously nothing happened from it, but yeah, that that kind of terror whenever you're a kid. The unknown part was the hardest, I think for me, because something was up in those woods that I'd never encountered before through
years of being up in those woods. Something was now there that absolutely terrified me. And it's it's incredibly immasculine because you know, you're fourteen, you're kind of coming of age. Yeah, you kind of you're you're starting a man up a bit, and you're yeah, you know, you can do things. And then they have that happening and feeling like just a toddler, just feeling like a baby was just like, oh my god. Yeah, you're absolutely right. It's a it's a metric for the rest of my experiences.
I'm sure this is something you've experienced. Talking to other witnesses, you know, we hear a lot of these stories from people about where they're like, well, I experienced something. I don't know what it was. I didn't see it, you know, but it could have been. And me
and another colleague were recently talking about that. There's actually another podcast host that has something going on on their property but they're not willing to call it bigfoot because they haven't seen bigfoot, you know, and they're explaining it away and I told him, I was like, you know, if he didn't think it was bigfoot, he wouldn't be talking about it, right, Yeah, you don't. Some of the most terrifying things you experience, some of the
most substantial encounters that happen, nothing has ever seen. But the point is that it sticks with you for the rest of your life. That to me, that's proof. Yeah, Oh, I like absolutely, because if it's if it's if it's powerful enough to impact your life and how you live it, then it's substantial. You may not know the exact cause, but I mean, how many culprits are you know, are available for something like that, you know, right, a possible Bigfoot occurrence at the age of fourteen,
Yes, sir. So your interest obviously isn't just Bigfoot specific. You your show covers all kinds of crazy topics, you know, anything unexplained. Did you have any paranormal experiences growing up or anything? None? None before that again, that was kind of my my entry point, and none that I can remember right after that. My ghostly experiences mostly started when it was my ex wife and I lived in a brand new house that my uncle had
built and we were renting from him just in at the time. We were waiting to move into our own place, but we stayed in this house that they built and was just kind of sitting dormant in a very you know, it's a very suburban area, but the house was brand new The land was just land before that, and that's when we first started having ghostly experiences. So I had a bunch of experiences in that house, a lot of a lot of footsteps walking around, which was very unusual. Um, you know,
sounds that didn't make sense now as a new house. So you got to attribute some of that too. Yeah, you know, it's settling, it's it's you know, making its footprints as as time goes on. But but it was I was I used to smoke at that time, and I was smoking a cigarette and I worked nights, so on my nights off, I would just kind of just stay up late and kind of keep the same
schedule. So my wife at the time was asleep in the bedroom and I was sitting there smoking a cigarette on on the floor, leaning against the sofa. You know, My TV was up in front of me, and I'm sitting there smoking a cigarette and suddenly there's and I didn't know what the hell this was at the time. I learned since what it was, but at
the time, I was like, what the hell is that? Well, what I saw was this, I don't know, it was about a quarter or fifty cent piece size of a ball of light that was about two feet from my face, just drifting lazily from my left to my right right at eye level. I'm like, what the hell is that? You know, I had no concept. I had no concept of what this was. And I was like, not so bright you couldn't look into it, but it had that same kind of radiant quality like the sun, and it just kind
of dripping slowly by my face. And then by the time I got to you just pass my right eye, I'm fallowing out of my eyes and my head. I'm like, should I grab it? And then I'm like, no, I should not grab it. I don't any idea what the all that is. And so then suddenly it just you know, pushed away to my right quicker and was gone. And I was like, what the hell is that? I mean, I didn't have a concept of spirit orbs at that time, you know, or orbs. I never heard about it.
So I had this experience, this little ball of light, and I'm like, what is that? And you know, since then I've come to, you know, find out that it's But we had a lot of other things happened there. One of the creepier stories, and I'll share this with you and it's I think it has to do with the setting more than anything. The activity was profound, but it was mostly the setting that made it just so creepy. So I'd come home from work. I was working in a
in a factory and it was very dusty, dirty kind of job. And I got home. No, my wife had had an absolute talent for doing dishes right when I'm in the shower, so I got hot, cold, hot, cold happening, you know. So I was really excited this day because I got home early. I'm like, oh God, I'm gonna have a fully hot shower. So I locked up the house, you know, make sure everything's all secure, h in the bathroom, you know, stripped
down, got in the shower, and I'm all lathered up. I'm in my you know, steam bath shower, just cooking and in loving life. And then all of a sudden, the water goes ice cold. I'm like, oh God, she must have come home. I thought maybe she got home or something. So I'm like, oh, the water is freezing. I'm all lathered up, I'm like a I'm like a soap balloon at this point. So I'm like, oh God, I'm like freezing and rinsing off
as quickly as I can. I'm like, oh, that sucked, you know, shut off the water, and I hear water running, like a lot of water running. I'm like, what the hell is that? So I pull open the curtain. The hot water faucet in the sink is blasting full full steam that runs blasting full, and there's steam coming out of there, and I'm like, oh my god. But just psychologically being naked and
being scared is really really creep you know. It's like, oh God, you know, just thinking something was in there with me and God only knows, you know, what's going on, but it was just the whole not that clothes off for much protection, but it's just psychological, you know. But You're standing there in the inner birthday suits and someone else he can't see he's in there with you, and it's like loot. So and then I letting checked all the doors, the bathroom door were still locked, went out
the house. Nobody's there. Yeah, very strange. So that that, to me is one of my creepier experiences. But it's just because I was naked at the time. I mean, yeah, that would be terrifying, absolutely terrifying. Right, And now some people say oh, it could be a plumbing issue. Well, I mean, if if a faucet comes on a little bit, that's a plumbing issue. But it was all the way on. It was a brand new faucet. It's not like it was kind
of larn the washers were getting weak and stuff. I mean, it's brand new and it was solid. Never turned on by itself before or after that, but it did that time. So that was a that was a pretty profound experience for me, for manner. But we did finally move out of there and then moved into the house, which was one else that we were moving into, which was built in eighteen ninety four as a Queen Anne Victorian house and a beautiful old home. But we had a lot of things happened
there as well. Now I don't know if you know, I've thought about it's like, well, did something follow us or was it already in these
places and just kind of woke up or you know what? You know, you don't know, But I had a lot of different things happened, like this, this door that went into the kitchen that you know, those double swinging doors it goes either way, is an antake door, but it used to get hung up on the carpet and so, you know, into one room, and then there was tile in the kitchen, but it was you know, if you went into the kitchen, it was fine because it would
just go closed and kind of hit the carpet and stop. But if you went out, you had to kind of give it a little elbow grease to get it over the shag carpeting and so um, I don't know, it was stuck in the in the open position. And this this happened to my ex wife. Actually she was sitting there alone. Again, I was working
nights and the factory stuff. So um, she was sitting there and the door was hung up, and suddenly, all by itself, she heard this dragging noise and then like the doors doing it, you know, back and forth thing, and she's like, she freaked her out. And then she had this really cheap tubular brass furniture that was real popular back in the day. Yeah, and you could hear every time anybody was ever, you know,
near them, like they were just noisy. And we didn't have any pets or any kids at this time, so it was just her alone another night and she said, suddenly she was hearing squeaking chairs, like somebody was sitting in the chairs and stuff, and it really really freaked her out. And again, these are kind of one off experiences. It's not like they happened all the time. It was just this weird, random stuff that would happen, and so, you know, it freaked her out. And eventually
we separated and divorced. Um not because of this, but you know it's certainly probably didn't know, but um, I was living then alone in the house at the time, and by then the two wheeler brass furniture was gone because you know, we got divorce. She took her with her or whatever. So, um, I'm leaving my house one day, and I came out of the kitchen and went through the dining room, which is now empty.
But in the dining room ceiling there's this this chandelier and it's a it's an older chandelier, not necessarily antique, but it was older from probably the fifties or something. And I walked through the dining room and I reached to grab the door to go out onto my porch and then outside to my car. But I reached and grabbed the door handle, and sudden they had this feeling like turn around, So, I mean it was it wasn't really a
thought, it was just a feeling like I should turn around. So I had my hand still on the door handle, and I turned around, and just as I looked back into the dining room, that chandelier pulled out of the ceiling and crashed to the floor. Now when I say pulled out of the ceiling, I mean screws and plaster came down as well. It was like it didn't just always and really hung well. It was there for you know, probably fifty years or better, and that at that moment it was
yanked out of my ceiling and crashed onto the floor. And I was like, oh my god, so true story. It really happened. Wow, Yeah, that one was. That one was a little a little freakier. But you know, and I say this every time anybody asked it, because they're like, did that terrify you? And I think, honestly, and I say this with all sincerity, I think there's something wrong with me because actually when that happened, it pissed me off. It's like, oh God,
now I gotta fix that. And I swear to God, you know, because I mean, it's not like life wasn't already hard enough. Now I'm gonna figure out how to repair antique plaster or and you know, rehan a chandelier and all that. So I was really upset, but I didn't get scared, you know. So I don't know if something's wrong with me or not. But that's how I filtered. It was with disgust and rage.
So having you know, the initial experience out in the woods, and then these events happen to you, and then you've been doing this podcast that spans all these different type of topics. Do you have one that interests you more than the others? You know, I don't think I do, I tell you what, They all fascinate me. You know, maybe for the same reasons, because I think that each of these different topics serves to remind us that we we don't really know our world as well as we think we
do. You know, we have this real, real arrogance about us, like you know, we've conquered the known world kind of thing. But this stuff just seems to happen in the face of all that and goes. Maybe it's saying, you know, you guys still have a lot to learn, you know, like there might I don't know if it's a divine purpose to it or not, but it seems to be like it happens to show us,
you know, there's more here, you're missing some of it. And I don't know, you know, what the endgame of that is, but I think it's kind of like Nicola Tesla said that as soon as we start, you know, really exploring the non physical, then we're going to make more strides than we have in all of combined history. And I think he's onto something there, because I mean, if you think about it, Matt people, the chandelier pulled out of my ceiling with no force visible there to
do it. I've seen objects move, I've had a pen and roll away from my hand as I was going to grab it. I've had doors slam and shut and you know, no visible perpetrator. And then you know, we got these huge beings running around in our forests that are not even acknowledged by our sciences, even in the face of what I think is overwhelming evidence.
They just won't look into it. And then we're being visited apparently by beings from you know, who knows where there's transdimensional or the distant reaches of the Cosmos, but they're coming here. You'll ing devices that defy our known
understanding of physics. And so it's like every one of these things stands to teach us something more about our world because we have all these examples, and I find that fascinating, and I honestly don't want to live in a world where it's just all labeled and categorized and put on a shelf, because that, to me would be boring. I love that there's still mystery and there's still discovery, and that we stand to learn so much just by looking deeper
into these things. And so I don't pretend that I'm the guy that's going to crack the case, but I do find it absolutely fascinating, you know, from a personal standpoint, and from you know, the idea that maybe all of this is meant to teach us something, you know what I mean. Yeah, for sure, I think it's extremely egotistical of us as a
civilization to think that we've got anything figured out. You know. I was just talking to somebody the other day about how, you know, the human lineage went a certain direction with technology because of certain discoveries that we made, most likely you know, by complete accident and so we followed that path which led us to this point. Right, But it could have you know, we could have discovered an entirely different type of technology that would have took us
down an entirely different path. Right. Uh. It's just really interesting to think about. And that's just here on our own planet, and we're nothing in the grand scheme of things. Sure, yeah, exactly. I mean if you think about even like the microwave, and I was it was discovered because some guy had his ice cream too close to a microwave emitting device and realized, hey, you can cook cook with us. Hey, hey that
it screams a boddle all of a sudden. So I and it almost seems like there there's a there's almost an intelligence to some of this, and I think that you know, it happens to all of us, maybe or any variety of reasons. But I just think this stuff is showing us something. This is the breadcrumbs, and I think it's arrogant not to at least follow
it and see where that leads. And not that everything's going to teach us some profound truth, but I mean, you know, things like like with again with the spiritual stuff, that things objects, levitating objects, disappearing and reappearing in impossible places, like a crawl space that nobody goes to. It's like, well, how the hell did that happen? That's like a star trek kind of thing. You know, you phase it out one place and it appears somewhere else. Is that, you know, some kind of weird
wormholes or is there an intelligence behind it? Is there? You know, is there a portals happening that you know we don't understand. You know, all of this is demonstrating something incredible, you know, and I think it's again, I think it's foolish to ignore that just because it doesn't fit into the box that we have set aside for physics and science. You know, a friend of mine who lives here in Oklahoma. We chat back and forth
on a pretty regular basis. She's actually been on the podcast before when we've kind of, you know, we struck up a friendship with our mutual interest in the paranormal and all these kind of things. And one day she messaged me and she was asking me about hair ties. She was like, you know, those little black rubber band hair ties come in all different colors that girls, you know, put ponytails up in and everything. I was like, yeah, sure, and she was like, well, I've been finding
them. I was like, okay, you know, and she's like, but I've been finding them in like very specific places, Like I'll get out of my car at the grocery store and go grocery shopping, and then when I come back, there's one like laying right next to my car door on the ground, and it's always it's always a black one. They're always black, no other color, huh. And I was like, okay, well and she was like, well, I you know, they're pretty common.
You know, lots of people wear them, so it's not that big of a deal. And I was like sure, and she's like, let me send you a picture. And she sends me a picture and she had like a pile of like a hundred of them that she had found randomly. Wow. I mean that seems a message. Yeah, yeah, So yeah, what are they trying to say? Are they trying to communicate with us?
Are they trying to show us something like what's the deal? You know, there's that whole movie trope about oh they want help, you know, passing on or whatever. But what do you think you've talked to a lot of people. Do you think they're really trying to communicate with the living? Are they even the deceased at all? Is it really the ghost of people that we're dealing with? What do you think's going on? Well, that's kind of the million dollar really that, But it appears to be in a lot
of cases, you know, like when when my dad passed away. This is kind of a personal story, but I'm happy to share it here. Um. I think I think that our loved ones do find ways to come through to us. And sometimes symbology is a big thing, like symbols that maybe make them make us think about them or think about things attributed to them.
And so it can be a song that you just managed to always hear her, or it could be you know, I don't know, could be a cardinal, a bird or you know, something that you just notice, or a butterfly. It seems to be real common symbols. But I do think that that's that's part of them reaching through the veil. Now, Is am I sure about that? No? I mean, I don't know for sure what's here, but I think that that, like with my dad's situation, he chose dreams and it was perfect. So my dad and I had
a real challenging relationship. We butted heads a lot. He was a very stubborn man, and I'm a very stubborn man, sou and he was very old school, just kind of my way or the highway kind of guy. And you know, and it's not like there wasn't a love between us. We did love each other, but it was just we just boumed head's a lot. And he got the COPD there breathing issues and it was getting sick, and you know, I went and visited he me at home, but
then I came back out here where I live in North Idaho. The home, of course is still in Minnesota, but you know, and we visited a little bit, but there's still a million things left unstead. And then the phone call came. It's like, yeah, your dad died. I was like, oh. And it's this crushing feeling of having all of these things that probably should have been said and had a million opportunities to say them, but for our own reasons, we choose and chose never to actually have
that dialogue. And so it was it was really really a painful thing because I was like, wow, I guess I got to carry this the rest of my life, you know, because there's no way for me to do that. But anyway, so I was kind of feeling bad and you know, feeling sad that that was the way our relationship ended. And then I went to sleep one night and I'm here to tell you I had a dream that was so real. It's more real than me sitting here in my studio
talking to you. Everything was absolutely brilliantly vibrant and alive. I was standing in his living room and there he was, and I had perfect consciousness about it. It's not like when you're in a dream and you're you kind of figure things out. It's like that whole experience. I knew where I was, I knew that I was me, and you know, and what all of my emotional stuff I was fully cognition of. So I was in perfect lucidity and I turned and there he was, standing in the living room,
just a few feet away from me. I'm like Dad, and I put out my arms and he put out his arms and we embraced. And I'm
here to tell you it smelled like him, it felt like him. Everything about him was just as as as sincere and real as as if he was really standing in front of me in this room, and and I could, you know, feel him now he I don't remember him actually speaking, but we had an entire dialogue as we stood there embracing, and I'm like, I'm so sorry I wasn't a better son, and he's like, you know, I'm so sorry I wasn't a better dad, And and we were able
to just in that moment, we're able to connect and and and heal. And it was this entirely cathartic experience of being able to put that to rest. And then before I knew it, you know, his embrace ended, and and then it was like bomos. Back in my bed, I woke up just sobbing, just you know, tears rolling it down my face.
And it was incredibly powerful and beautiful. And I know that some people out there may be, well, you know, it's just your subconscious coming to terms of the fact your father died, and so you created this experience so you could, you know, you could have peace with it and move on.
But I'm a great creative person. But as far as I can tell, that experience was as real as and more real in many ways than most of my life, and so I think he did come through, and I think they do come through our dreams because that's when it's easiest for them to do that. You know, we don't have all our distractions and noises and internets and radios and TVs and stuff that pull us off of you know, off of that, that introspective openness, and so I think he came to
me so that we could heal. And it was beautiful and it was powerful. And while many people may dismiss it, it's a real experience for me regardless, because it did help me to heal. It helped me to close that sore, that open wound that I was carrying, and I'm very, very grateful for it, you know, that's first off. That's awesome.
Yeah, absolutely awesome. And I'm sure this is something that you know, you're fully aware of based on you know, the format of your own podcast and your own interest in this subject and the type of person that you are. It's easy to sit here and have discussions about the topics of the paranormal and the unexplained phenomenon that goes on and dissect what happens, and you know,
reports and encounters and all that. But whenever you talk to the witnesses, whenever you talk to the people that have these things going on in their lives, these are experiences. Yeah, we're not talking about the topic of ghosts and the paranormal. We're talking about a person's experience, Yes, and
that makes it one hundred percent real. And that's what's to me so frustrating that the scientific community and the public at large kind of you know, looks at this tongue in cheek or you know, like, yeah, that's a pseudoscience whatever. You know, it doesn't make any scientific sense, and you
know that's not possible. They're ignoring the experience factor. They're ignoring the fact that, okay, but this is something that someone's experiencing, so that that perspective makes it real no matter what it lines up with in terms of, you know, adhering to our scientific protocols and our understanding of how things work. Right. Yeah, it's a very powerful thing. Right. No, I agree wholeheartedly. And you know, I mean, what whatever becomes real
to us is our reality. And so I mean, if I believed in you know, there were a unicorns dance in my backyard, there are unicorns dancing in my backyard in kind of a shortinger Cat's way, until you know, somebody goes in and actively tries to debunk that. But I mean, our reality is subjective, you know, and I understand that, and I also understand that people defend their paradigm fiercely, like the people that are already
skeptical. Yeah, I mean, I'm not even sure that there's a way to make them believe, you know, because they don't their world is safe, you know, the way that they see it, and something threatening somebody's worldview is incredibly you know, powerful and could be detrimental for the people that
are you know, so tied up in that identity. But you know, here's the thing, And you mentioned the word and you said pseudoscience, and I'm here to tell you, like, you know, for paranorm investigating, for you know, probably a lot of a lot of the techniques we use, it is pseudoscience. But the problem is that nobody in the science body is willing to give us other science. So all we're left to do is to take things from other fields and adapt them to try to provide some form
of evidence. It's like, you know, if you're not going to help us develop a real science. Then don't bang on our pseudoscience because it's what we have and we're trying to utilize other technologies like you know, you know flear. I mean, it's it was developed to you know, to look for heat and cold and you know, for utilitarian reasons or mechanical reasons or military reasons. But it wasn't meant to look for bigfoot. But it can't.
You know, that's very very possible that there are some I've seen some some brilliant captures. Stacy Brown's capture for when he was with his dad is amazing and the one coming out of Australia from the Australian nowI Research Group, that was amazing. So I think it's you know, but it was it's adopted technologies because it's why we have to work with you know, EMF meters were not meant to detect disembodied presences. They are meant to detect electrical issues.
But something's happening with these EMF meeters when they're you know, they're they're they're triggering off of unknown phenomena. So we got to use what we have. And so I know a lot of people get defensive about the pseudoscience but it's like, well, yeah, it is pseudoscience, but it's because we're utilizing the tools that we have available to us. And if and if it is, you know, if they can do it better, they should give
us better science. Sometimes wars are fought by people who were never soldiers. You know, you gotta do what you gotta do sometimes, and that's kind of the boat that we're all in. Right. Has there been a an episode or a certain guest that really got to you, like really unnerved you or bothered you? I mean, there's so many. It's a that's a tough question to feel because everybody, like you said, everybody's experience is their
reality. And so I just have this this profound level of feeling absolutely honored that people feel compelled to reach out to me and to share their story because maybe they want to put it down finally, maybe they want to help other people, or for any number of reasons, but they want to share what
they've seen and experienced. And I think that anecdotal evidence is so powerful in these fields because we're relying on a lot of it in order to understand this phenomena we're dealing with, and all the varied phenomena so um, I mean, I've I'm honored to talk to everybody. I was really really thrilled to have had the opportunity to sit down with Bob Giblin and talk to him,
the godfather of all of this. I mean, Bob was just the most profoundly sincere and down to earth person I've ever met, and I really feel thrilled that we were able to have a discussion and he was able to share his experiences, and you know, I talked to him about, of course about Patty, but also talk to him about the fact that he was neighbors with Evil Knevil. Yeah, that's so cool, so can you imagine. So we talked about that a bunch when he appeared on my show as well.
But it's just one of those moments to have a chance to talk to somebody that's you know, I mean, quite honestly, Bob's older now, and he's getting older all the time, and it won't be long and he won't have that voice anymore. So I'm I felt really honored to have had an opportunity to have a discussion with him, even though maybe he repeated a lot of the same things he's already discussed a million times. Not many people have talked to him about Evil Knevil. Yeah, so that was a really
cool one. But I mean, is there anyone more than others? Not really. I think everybody that I talked to, I just again, I might be being redundant, but I couldn't be more sincere that everybody's experience is incredible. And I think a lot of people have this real Hollywood idea of all of this stuff, like, well, if you don't have books flying around your room, indoors slamming, then you know it's nothing big. Well, good god, If your cereal bowl moves eight inches, that's huge.
You know, if your facet turns on and while you're in the shower, that's a big deal folks, especially when you're naked. But anyway, but it is, it doesn't We don't need to have Poltergeist level phenomena for it to be incredible. I mean, it's little things, you know, like I got you know, I love the stories that are like there's a long time ago I covered a story like this where somebody always put their keys in
the same place, always put their keys in the same place. They had some activity around their house, but they were going to leave to go to work. One day, they went to grab the keys, and I think it was in a bowl right next to the door, you know, on like a chest of some sort or stand. And they reaching the bowl and the keys are not there, and so they're like frantic, they're late for
work. They're running around, tossing the whole apartment, looking around, looking around, looking around, and then that these keys are not to be found. And then about after about fifteen minutes of frantic searching, looking, they're in the bowl by the by the by the door. Oh well, that's really weird, but god, I'm late. I got to get to work. Well, they go to work. On the way to work, they find out that the path they drove, if they had been on time,
they would have been in a fatal car accident. Wow. Oh, something incredibly profound stepped in. Is that divine divine intervention? Because it's you know, it seemed like a nuisance kind of activity, but it very well might have saved their lives, you know. So it's something little like that can have these profound impacts. So I want to get back to Bigfoot for a second. Sure you've talked to a lot of Bigfoot witnesses, you are an
active person in the bigfoot world. You know what's going on and what's happened. I mean, you've interviewed Bob Gimblin about Evil Kinevil. How more can you go into the subject. So you're aware as much as I am that there's many different schools of thought whenever it comes to bigfoot. Yeah, what
is your perspective on the flesh and blood versus the paranormal bigfoot paradox? You know, this is a tough one, and it's one honestly, and to be absolutely sincere, I have hard time with wrapping my head around it. And it's not me saying I don't believe that's possible that a big foot could just be portaling in or out or disappearing or you know, doing all these incredible supernatural feats. But it's just we all have our paradigm, we all
have the limits of what we're capable of thinking around. And it's not me saying no, that's not possible. I don't believe that. It's just me going I don't understand that. And maybe maybe that's my own personal hang up because I do tend to be logical about it. But it's it's just a fantastical idea to me. And if they are doing that, then what does that mean? How do they do it? Is it possible we could learn it? Is it, you know? Is it a technology of some kind
that we don't understand, or is it? Is it just that they are these transdimensional beings? Are they from the stars? Are they just a rella commented that's wandering around? And I tend you know, here's the thing. I I do believe that they're flush and blood because they leave footprints and that requires a mass. They are observed eating many many people have had sightings watching them eat or seeing them eat things. They physically interact with the world around
them, so I mean, they do have a physical presence. So it's not I don't think a big leap of faith to say, hey, look they're felesh and blood. Now do I disbelieve people's stories? Know, but I don't understand, you know, I'd say, again, it's my own paradigm. So I talk it up to I don't know what this thing is. I mean, I know that I believe that it's flesh and blood. I can answer that, I think conclusively or pretty much, I mean without
having shook hands with one. But because we can see evidence of them being physically present, are they always though? I don't know. I mean, that's where I get stuck. And so, you know, I've interviewed to people that have seen these things right in front of their eyes, and I believe them. I really do. It's just that I don't know how to process that. So that's my own shortcoming, I think more than anything, because you know, I just have to have a basic rudimentary understanding of it.
Then with all that, it's just like, well, like, you know, what does that mean? I don't know. So does that make sense? No? No, No, I'm on the same page. It's a lot. I've definitely talked to enough people, you know, I'll go back to the experience thing. I've talked to enough people that have experienced paranormal Bigfoot events, supernatural bigfoot events, whatever you want to call it, right, and I believe them. I believe that, you know, they experience
what they experience. But it is certainly something that I'm not able to wrap my head around. Now. Yeah, the one stipulation of that being, I do have a very strong opinion at this point, which could change tomorrow, that Bigfoot is closer to human than it is to animal, as we understand the difference between humans and animals. Sure, I believe Bigfoot is a type of person to a certain extent. I have seen enough evidence of that. Yeah, at least That's where I'm leaning at this point. So with
that being said, I think it might be possible. And shout out to DJ, who I'm sure we'll listen to this episode. This is one of his favorite topics, So I'll ask this on his behalf, the possibility of these paranormal Bigfoot events being explained away as perhaps they are Bigfoot ghosts. You know, I've heard that before. I've heard that suggested before, and and I don't see why not if you know, I mean, there are reports
of ghost pets, often people seeing spectral animals in the woods. I've got trail camp pictures that were sent to me by my own cousin in Tennessee of a spectral dog that he caught, and and it's you know, it's very translucent, it's very whispy, but it's very clearly a keynine. So why couldn't it be possible then that's Bigfoot. When they you know, die away or you know, leave their body, they could linger and that doesn't make sense to me, you know, I mean it kind of you know,
fits the mold, so to speak. Yeah, well, yeah, I mean several of the precedents of that out there. You're not only human, but other you know, creatures of this world. So yeah, I think it's that's a great a great take, a great possibility, or or it
could even be some other form of spiritual mimicry. We cover doppelgangers a lot on the on the show, well not a lot, but from time to time where people see a doppelganger of either themselves or someone else that's in you know, in their family or someone real close to them, and then we'll see the real person several you know, feet or distance away that they couldn't possibly have gotten to. Um. So, I mean, there's there's no
seem to be the precedent for spiritual entities. And I don't think that they were human necessarily. There's a bunch of things out there that weren't human that we understand as spiritual. Um in my opinion, and in you know, several other opinions that I'm aware of. But so is there something that could be mimicking that? Yeah? Um, remember again, and it's kind of
a silly reference, and I don't mean to be childish about it. But remember in the in the Harry Potter movies when they I don't know if you watch them, I'm familiar with. Right, So they got the ball guards. That's in that cabinet and then they open it and for each person that assumes a different form. Yeah, well, I think you know. I mean, there are there are beliefs and legends from you know, a lot of cultures around the world of their being spiritual beings that do just that.
So there was there was a historical precedent, or at least legendary or folklorish precedent for the ball guards. Um so is that that's possibly something like that? And it could be that's interesting for sure. I hadn't even thought about that angle, right, Yeah, just tell my head work. Are you following the UAP disclosure stuff? You know, I just got done traveling when all of this was going on. I just got home yesterday and I've been
hitting the ground running. But I fully intent on sitting down and watching a bit of it, maybe even later tonight, but at least in the very near future before my YouTube show on Wednesday, because I'd like to have a knowledge of it. It's kind of a hot topic now. Yeah, so let's just pretend, let's fast forward that it comes out full disclosure. The government's like, yep, they're real, you know here they are blah blah blah. What do you think happens? Then? You know, as far
as for me personally, nothing I've I've seen UFOs. I saw a very clear present UFO that was not real far from me a few years back, about eight years back, no, probably about ten years back now. But for the world at large, I don't think it's going to have their shattering consequences that everybody thinks, because I think more people are open to the idea than that. I mean, even when the Navy released or well whether they were kind of forced to release it because I think it leaked first, but
all those tic tac craft, those things leaked. There wasn't panics or riots or anything. There were people like huh about that. You know, it was like Tuesday. Yeah, it wasn't the end of the world day. It was just like a Tuesday or something, you know. I mean, people, people are I think way more open than they're giving credit for. And I think people can handle a lot more than they're giving credit for.
I think that, you know, put the truth out there. You know, my god, how long ago was it that bigfoot was a whispered topic, barely discussed, And now everywhere there's conferences and people out there. Look and you know, I mean, we handle things just fine. So but yeah, I've seen him. I'm already I was already in nohere. If it happens with Bigfoot sometime in the future where we have bigfoot disclosure, do you think that changes anything? Do you think people quit going on into the
woods. Do you think people go out in the woods trying to shoot one? Do you think it would have an impact? It'll be the end of that species, in my opinion, it will be the end of whatever remains of them, because it will become the next big craze. Well, they saw a big foot there, and now they're out there, let's get in the truck and go. And so you're gonna have this influx of people suddenly
going into the forest in places they've never gone. And I don't know how much territory they need, but I know that they've been progressively encroached upon for hundreds of years and I don't think that's there's many options left to them. I mean, there's there's still big stands of wild areas in our in our nation and in the nations between US and Canada and stuff, and probably around the world. But the point is is that I think it's we have a
tendency to destroy what we love. And you know, somehow they will murder a black market where a bigfoot testicle will cure cancer or something, and you know there'll be that. Then there will be those that want to put them in zoos, and my god, I don't think I could think of a more tragic site than that. But whatever these guys are, it's kind of like the Jurassic Park line. They've chosen our absence, and I think we
should we should honor that. But you know that if it becomes proved and it's a foregone conclusion, that people will head out into the wild places and they'll be harassing the hell out of them, and probably they're they're probably in a pretty fragile state anyway, just because of the encroachment and the expansion of our civilizations, and I think it may very well push push them over the
edge, and they'll become a memory. Yeah. I think that's probably my biggest problem with disclosure of these type subjects in general, whether it be you know, UFO, slash UAPs or Bigfoot at some point, not necessarily the acknowledgement that those things are real, because like you said, there's plenty of us out there that know they're real already, but the human factor of you know, the the chaos that will ensue from people disagreeing and trying to figure
out what to do about it. You know, well, how does that affect us? What should we do? And uh, you know, I do see like political divisions being drawn. You know, your different camps. Put them in a zoo or an animal, shoot them, eradicate them. You know, it's it's not safe to go out into the woods anymore.
And then you've got your people who will want to protect them, which you know, that's been one of my hang ups for a long time actually, is certain individuals claiming to have these intimate relationships and knowledge of these creatures.
And you know, the people who claim to have you know, habituation happening at their homes and this intimate knowledge and wisdom about these creatures and they talk to them and everything else and I'm just like, if you really had their best interest at heart, you wouldn't even tell anybody that you knew anything about them. Why are you coming on the internet and telling people all this stuff if you like, I wouldn't tell anybody. I don't even know what bigfoot
is. That's ridiculous. No, they don't exist. Yeah, No, I'm with you, because bringing more attention to it is not going to be helpful to them in any manner. I mean, you know, there's the there's the double edged sort of it. Do people have a right to know they're out there? Sure? I guess maybe there's that, But I think that if anything, all the all of the reports that we've got, and you know, you've gotten more, probably you've been exposed to more than more
than most. And generally their reports are real peaceful. They're just like, oh there's a personal here, I'm I'm moving out of here, you know. I mean, they just they just leave, They just avoid unless you know, of course, there's the stories of people being harassed in a campsite, but there again, this is this is their homes. We're moving our little tents and little tent communities out, maybe into their living room, maybe it's you know, right by the perfect view, by the little stream next
to the you know, the forested area. Well that might be where they you know, get their fish or whatever. You know. These are perhaps habits and traits that have been handed down over thousands of years, you know, and then incomes the you know, the campers and stuff. So yeah, they might get harassed a little bit, but generally speaking, most most of these encounters are very peaceful. And these beings are so strong and so capable that they if they were malicious, you'd be dead before you even knew
who they were there, you know, they are so capable. Yeah, if that was a big foot you heard that day when you were fourteen years old, if it wanted you, I mean you guys, wouldn't have made it out of the woods. You wouldn't would do it. Yeah, I wouldn't even have heard of growl. It would have just been you know, lights out. Yeah, I mean, because somehow it got all the way behind me, you know, and if fairly not not completely open, it was still a forested area, but it wasn't like you know, tough,
tight knit you know, groupings of trees and bushes. It was you know, like a nice mature for us canopy, you know where you got room, But somehow it ended up right behind us and way bigger than us, And I didn't hear a sound until that growl kicked in. It was like, oh god, you know so, I mean it was There's no question if they wanted people dead, there'd be a whole lot more missing. For one one going on, I've got one more thing I wanted to ask you
while I had you on here. Sure, did you do a recent spirit box session in your studio? I did. I've been doing that every well, last several Saturday nights that I've done live shows, I've been doing it right here in the studio. Have you gotten anything? Yeah, dude, one of the first times that I set up the It's based on the Huff portal, but which would take a big explanation to kind of get into it.
But it's basically instrumental transcommunication, which is the idea that we use objects, mechanical objects to hopefully interact with spirits, and this one is supposedly they are able to supposedly manipulate the sound in order to make words. So I literally said, okay, guys, we're going to get to the live investigation though, and I turned on the device and I said, I said, all right, is there any spirits I want to communicate with us? And
right away a voice came through and said, yeah, I do. Wow, just now, this was using a sound database of fractions of words like they're justllibles. Yeah, but it was like, I do the same voice through the whole thing, which I mean. I talked to the guy that gave me the set up and he said, that's not that's not possible. That's definitely paranormal. They can't do that. I was like, yeah, I thought that was really weird too, And then I set up a flashlight
test. It's where you have these twist off twist on little mag lights and stuff, and basically a position it so it's just a hair off but almost on, and then you set it down. Now, those can be really interesting, but you know, there's some cautionary parts of it too, and one of them is that look, atmospherically, things can change and make it
go on and off. But right if you can tie the correlation of events to questions or interactions with that you've requested, then it becomes a little more mathematically difficult to disprove because you know, I was consistently getting well, you know, the light coming on for yes, and you know, then asking them to shut it off and boom they would shut it off, and it
was really really really cool. Then I got these these stupid little cat balls off of Amazon, and there are little cat toys that when that cat like moves it, it will flash these little led lights. But they it turns out people are using them for investigating and and I've had some great you know
indicators off of that. Now, can I prove there's ghosts here? No, But having several different modalities out and several of them being triggered, I think to me is reinforces the possibility that there is something here that was communicating with me. So yeah, true story. Wow man, I'm gonna have to check that out. Where can people find you? Now? Where do you want to send them? Everywhere? YouTube? iTunes? What do you got for me? All right? So the podcast is the biggest platform by
far for the paranormal portal. I'm working on the YouTube, but I have been for longer than the podcast, but some reason, YouTube is a tough egg to crack. But the podcast is available everywhere cast Box, Stitcher, iTunes, Pandora, Google Play, iHeartRadio, any any of those platforms. Spotify of course is a big one, so you can look for Paranormal Portal out there. We're in our fifth season now, and I don't like a lot of shows out there. I'm just gonna, you know, flex a
little bit here. Flex away, man, flex away, all right. When I do a season the shows, it's fifty two or better episodes. So I'm on my fifth season of shows now, just finished episode five and of season five that's posted now. But you can find all those out or you can go over to YouTube YouTube dot com slash Paranormal Portal and you'll end up on our YouTube page and there's over I think there's about one thousand,
two hundred YouTube videos over there. Now. Wow. Yeah, I know I was doing I was literally doing ten shows a week for a number of years. So he's putting in work, man, dude, I'm telling you. I was doing three podcasts a week and seven live shows a week on YouTube, So I was working hard. But you know, it's it's gotten me some recognition, so it was worth the effort. But it did take
a lot of investment. And you can also go to Paranormal portal dot net and find our homepage and that'll link you to everything, so all of the social media and stuff. If you want to catch up with me on social media, if you want to email me Paranormal Portal Radio at gmail dot com. I love to hear from you as well. So that's everything I think, Brent Man, thank you, Thank you, sir for joining me.
It's been a blast. Yeah, it's really good to talk to you, brother, And likewise you're gonna have to come on the portal and we're gonna have to show the audience mister Matt Napp. Yeah, fairest fair man. I've got some stories for you. Excited to have you on, brother, for sure. But thank you man, I appreciate it. And if you've experienced something you can't explain, send me an email at bigfootcrossroadt gmail dot com.
Check out Bigfootcrossroads dot com for links to the social media, contact form to reach me directly, links to the merch everything you all in one place. And until next time, I remember there's something in the woods.