Ep:162 They Destroyed Our Camp

time you could also hear almost like a war. We started running full speed toward that tree line to get to our camp, and we're hearing what sounds like trees kind of falling. We're just terrified. We're just trying to get to our campsite. Our campsite is completely destroyed. There's trees on top of it, the fences down, the tent is crushed, there's trees fallen all over it. And we had no idea what could have done that.

little scary out there. After about a year or that, I decided that I would go into the remote wilderness and the pine barrens of New Jersey with a buddy of mine. So that's what we did. I had I had some outdoor skills. I was obsessed with kind of survival and bushcraft as a child. I was always trying to build stuff and I had this cool book. I think it was like the The Sas Survival Guide. I think the Altar was like John Wiseman, I think he was like this. He was the first, the youngest soldier

to join the sas pretty cool guy. So I had that book and I read it over a few times as a child, and you know, when you're a teenager, after reading something like that, you think you're invincible out there. So yeah, me and my me and my buddy got together with another friend who lived really close to this really remote area in the pine barrens, and he kinda he kind of hooked us up and took us to

the store to get some essentials. And yeah, we we headed out and picked up you know, some knives, some a tent, some other survival stuff and decided to go out.

We I think it was probably about three or four miles deep into the into the pine barrens off the off this like kind of like little side road, and he lived probably another mile from there, so it wasn't we were pretty remote, but we were also we could walk to his house if we if we left early enough, and we would do that every so often and you know, get some food, get a shower.

about the Pine Barrens, but it's kind of sandy. In some parts of the Pine barrens, they have a lot of sands, and there was this one part that was like very sandy, had like this crazy white sand and these uh, I guess these BMX dudes like kind of dug out some ramps and stuff and ditches and dudes will take their dirt bikes out there sometimes. It was pretty cool. It was kind of like a little open area in the middle of the woods kind of you

could see everything. You could see for for a long distance, and where we were we had a little height to it so you could kind of see down and really cool. So we we saw that and we were like, oh, maybe we should, you know, get somewhere close to here. So then we found this little tree line. We walked into it a bit, and it went down a bit and kind of flattened out, and we found this really cool little camp area that was really hidden, very thick

all around it. You know, we were trying to avoid detection, which was our number one goal at that time. We did not want to end up in you know, protective services or anything like that. We had a healthy fear of that. So yeah, so we we found this little area, we set up the tent, got a little kind of fire pit from that book I learned to you know,

it teaches you how to avoid detection. So we we did kind of like the full I guess you would call it Dakota fire pit, where it feeds air from one side into into a hole and the fire kind of stays a little below below the ground so that you're not you know, you don't have like a giant bonfire in the middle of the woods. So we had one of those just you know, after everything was set up, we would just walk around and forage and just try to learn our surroundings a bit more. But ever since

the first night. You know, there was weird. There was weird sounds that we weren't used to, and definite pretty creepy. We would hear, you know, twigs breaking and things walking around our camp at night, and we did not know what it was. We just kind of figured it with animals. So I decided that we should build a little perimeter fence.

We did that. We took a bunch of saplings, cut them down, tied them together with some power cord and duct tape and whatever we could, stuck them into the ground, and built this pretty intricate perimeter fence around our whole camp, which also helped us remain a little more undetected. It was pretty camouflaged in there. We could barely see it if you were just walking around back there, so that made us feel a little more safe. But we would every night we'd hear walking all around our camps and

it to me sounded like bipedal walking. So we thought maybe there could be some kind of you know, recluse type dude out there, maybe also living out there with us.

mostly deer, but these did not sound like deer. When the deer would come through, you could tell, you could hear that they were there was four legs coming down, and the way they moved this was a little different. It got to the point where we were literally thinking like is this place haunted or something? Yeah, it's movies, it was. It was very close to our our perimeter wall.

We would hear these such steps just walking in circles all around all night, and then we started hearing like little noises here and there just kind of progressed as we were there. We would hear whistles that did not sound like birds because you could tell like there was like all these different kind of birds out there. It was have you ever heard of a whipparial? Yeah, yeah, that would be like the night sounds would be lots

of those things. I'm not even gonna try to mimic that that sounds, but Yeah, it's a bird called a whipparill, and their sound actually sounds like whipparil. Yeah, you know to do you would hear that all night long, and then all of a sudd it would when those footsteps came, it would just get all the birds would would stop, all the little critters would stop. It would get super quiet. And yeah, that's when we would start hearing those footsteps.

Then the whistles started. We would hear like a whistle, then another whistle, you know, maybe fifty yards away.

so that was pretty strange. Again, never bigfoot never came into our our thoughts. We were just kind of weirded up, like where are these coming from? It was a strange. There was one day we were out there and we were kind of just walking around foraging and stuff. We were just I had I had this book of plants and stuff I was trying to I was trying to identify some plants, and there was this kid on a on a dirt bike that was driving. I guess he had come from that sand pit area and he saw

us and we saw him. We all we made eye contact and I'm like, oh, great, were spotted. But the kid, like, you know, he came over to us and asked us what we were doing, and we kind of told him. He was a little younger than us. He seemed pretty cool though he was. He's like, yeah, I won't tell on you guys. And then he told us, don't you know the mafia used to dumb bodies back here? And

we're like, hmm, well, okay, that's weird. And then we start thinking, okay, the mafia used to dumb bodies back here? Is this what we're hearing at night? That we're hearing you know, some sort of paranormal stuff? So yeah, you know, we had that in our heads. That added a level of you know terror to the when the when the night came. Yeah, you know, it kept going on and on and on, and it was one night we uh, we went out with our buddy. We hung out with him for a little bit and it was it was

really late. It was probably like it had to have been like eleven thirty twelve. Maybe I don't know I have. It was so long ago, I can't tell you what time was. It was very late in the night, not quite morning yet. He dropped us off at the tree line and we were heading back to our camp, and both of us started feeling really uneasy, very nauseous, and kind of just not right, like kind of like felt like we weren't alone. And we had been talking about it.

We were like, this doesn't feel right. We were just like, whatever, let's just get to our camp, so we'll walk in. We get to that sand pit area there was the moon is out, the sand is almost kind of illuminating off the the moon is kind of illuminating the sand,

so you could see pretty well. And we were heading toward that tree line where our tent was, and that's when we both heard a very very very loud scream like a woman being murdered, kind of like how everyone describes it, you know, yeah, rattles right through your body. I felt it in my stomach, my bones. It was.

It was incredibly loud and high pitched, but there seemed to be like another tone with it was high pitched, but at the same time, you could also hear almost like a war at the at the exact same time. That was just deep and guttural. So we both heard

that and stopped in our tracks. I feel like the only thing I can compare the feeling too was when I was at a Motorhead show and I was standing ten feet from Lemme's bassamp and he came out and started playing that song Overkill, and that bass from from that is like what I felt in that screen. That just completely just feel it through you from your head to your toes, inside and out. You know, we had

no idea what that was. We started running full speed toward that tree line to get to our to our camp. So we get to the tree line and we're going through the really really sick brush to get to our camp and we're hearing what sounds like trees kind of falling. I'm like, I stopped. I'm like, doesn't it some like trees falling? I mean, well, the scream happened a couple more times before we got to our camp. So at this point we are like, we don't know what we're

dealing with. We're just terrified. We're just trying to get to our campsite. We had all kinds of knives and stuff there. We were trying to get to them. And then I get a look at where our campsite is, and I stopped my buddy and I'm like, look, and our campsite is completely destroyed. There's trees on top of it, the the fence is down, the tent is crushed, there's trees falling all over it. We couldn't even we couldn't even get to it, and we had no idea what

could have done that. So we just turned around and we just started booking it. Those screams got a lot louder, a lot closer. We started seeing like from the tree lined these trees shaking back and forth, and I'm like, what is shaking those trees? We jumped in this this kind of dugout hole that was kind of like a bowl that they would use for dirt biking, and we were just literally huddled in there trying to hide from whatever this this was. And we were just duck down

in the sandpit, literally getting screened at. Every time we'd peek out, we'd see like there was at one point there was a tree that was out. We saw these this almost like a root ball getting smashed between these two trees and just dirt flying everywhere. It was just loud dumping. It was horrifying. We had no idea what could have been doing that. At that point, I asked my buddy if he thinks like someone slipped acid into our drink or something, because it was just it was

so out of this world. It was just so it was you know, you can't describe it, especially when you have no concept of what you know these creatures are due. So we had no idea, Like, I had no other explanation than like, this is either paranormal or both of us are having the same exact acid trip because we got slipped acid. Like that's the only thing I could have could think of at the time. But we were only with a good friend of ours, So I mean,

it's damn near impossible that that was it. But you know, we were just trying to come up with something that it could be. Yeah, so he's my buddy. My buddy starts hearing stuff in in his own head. I didn't have this. He started really freaking out that something was talking to him in his head, and that's when I was like, Yeah, this has to be some sort of LSD trip or something. You're hearing things in your head, you know, we peeked out. Trees were still shaking, we

were still hearing things walking around, snapping branches. I had noticed that there was this there was this kind of dead tree down at the bottom of these sand pits, and I noticed that it looked like there was something in it, and I pointed it out to my buddy and we're just staring at this thing. It's just like

this black silhouette. It looks like two arms holding a branch above it, hanging up and kind of squatted down on this really thick branch, low, like a low branch that was probably about five feet up off the ground, and it just looked like someone was holding a branch above its head and squatting down, Like what is that? It was all black silhouette, and I'm like, maybe it's just a tree. And my buddy's like, it looks like someone like hanging in that tree, and I'm like, yeah,

it totally does. But dropped down onto the sands and got on all fours like looked like a like a spider. That's when I'm like, all right, that's something. I don't know what that is, you know, trying to make any sense of this was just like impossible at the time. Yeah, I would say, so shaping with fear. And we duck down back in that pit and we I mean, I'm telling you, my buddy was grabbing out of my arm so hard I had bruised it all over my arm.

I mean, we were, we were, we were freaking scared, so in this pit and this thing is we it it starts that was what was screaming, because we heard the scream again from that area, and then we started hearing a laugh that almost sounded like a kind of like a spotted hyena. Yeah, but like more ape. Like I didn't even think ape at the time. I just was like, Okay, this is the worst trip ever. I

don't know what that is. It didn't sound human. It sounded almost like it's so weird how it sounded almost like one of those like voice changing boxes, know that people use on interviews, like you know, former CIA agents or something. Would you know whistleblowers use those like weird kind of voice changers. Sounded like it was almost coming from one of those very inhuman, very nothing nothing we've heard,

nothing we've ever known to exist, you know. So that's what we heard laughing around us, and the thing was running on all floors at really high speeds all around the sand pit. I'm sure the thing was watching us peeking out of that pit, and it would run by and kick loads of sand on us. We were just

getting covered and we had sand in our eyes. It was every time it went by, you could hear the thuds of its hands and feet on the ground, just getting close and closer, and then all of a sudden, it would just be like, you know, I can't even tell you how much sand just kicking all over us. And it was, it was. It was pretty It was pretty creepy. We stayed in that pit literally until the sun came up. Hadn't all this happened? It was ours we were. We were stuck in there. We couldn't move.

We both, uh, it's embarrassing to say, but at the time, we both we both pissed our pants in that pit. We were we were sitting in that pit, covered in sand, terrified, covered in pea like it. We were shaking. It just felt like so so out of this world. When that sun came up, we uh, we saw the sun started like coming over the horizon, it started getting a little lighter. I picked out I didn't see anything. We can still hear things moving through the tree line. I didn't see

that thing running around anymore. I was like, dude, let's run for it. And we just I mean, we ran so fast. We just kept going. When we were running, we ran to the road and if you cross the road, there's another set of trees on the other side, and that eventually leads to some railroad tracks. Like, maybe we should just hit the railroad tracks and just start heading south. And my buddy's like, all right, so we start. We go running across the street into the next tree line.

There was so bizarre. As we're running, we get to the tree line, we'll running through the trees, and I hear this car coming and the car skids to a stop and literally crashes off the road into the trees. I don't know what that was. I don't know what we I was like, dude, let's just keep going. You know, I'm not turning around. I'm not going back to see what that was. That car saw something. I don't know what that car saw, but whatever that thing is, it's

still out here, and let's just go. We ran to those railroad tracks and we when we hit those tracks, we did about must have been about eighteen miles on those tracks that day. We went across the railroad bridge, we got into the town where we're from. It was

it was crazy. We're on the railroad tracks, we're going and there's this road crossing coming up and we're kind of just trying to stay hidden because you know, we're both it's still on the missing person's list were you know, if any cops saw us, they probably would have stopped us. We looked crazy. I mean, I didn't mention we were Also we're street punks too, so we've got mohawks, we've got leather jackets with spikes. You know, we kind of stick out like sore thumbs. Plus we both peed ourselves

and we were sitting covered in sand all night. We looked like a horrible mess. We're crossing the street and just so happens, an old friend was driving to go visit her mom and she sees us. She hadn't seen us in almost two years. At this point. There was rumors going around that we were dead. There was rumors that we ran away to California, so many different rumors. So she sees us and she's like, what the hell happened to you? Guys, she said, we look like like

we saw ghosts. We were completely just white, just horrified, bug eyed, like we had been up all night, just terrified, snoke awful. You know. She gets us in her car, she's like, you guys, you guys can you guys can live with me? We're like what She literally took us in. After that day, we never went back to that campsite. I don't think I after that day went back into the woods, especially at night, and I had no idea.

We still had no idea what happened. We still at the time were like, Okay, when we talked about it, it was like that must have been it must have been LSD or something or some sort of hallucinogenic and then we just couldn't figure out where that could have came from. But we had no other I had no knowledge of any of this. So I had for years.

I mean, I went so long thinking that this could have just been some weird slip until about I think it was about twenty eleven, That is that when finding Bigfoot came out about twenty eleven, twenty ten, something like that. Yeah right there. Yeah, So it's funny I went from you know, not knowing anything. Then I see this commercial on TV. I'm sitting here with my wife, she was my girlfriend at the time. We had moved to California.

We're sitting there watching TV one night. I'm in my twenties, and this commercial comes on for Finding Bigfoot, and you know, I see this thing come on and I think it was Matt Moneymaker. That's like, I think there's a squadch in these woods. And me and my wife started hysterically laughing making I'm making fun of it. You know, at the time, I thought it was hilarious. I'm like, do these people? Are these people for real? You know, I'm like,

is this like a real thing? And so, you know, I would make fun of it, and you know, do that impression sometimes, like just joking around, you know. And I just kept seeing these commercials for the show, and I'm like, I just to watch it. This just looks too good, This looks kind of funny. I gotta watch this. And then I'm watching that show and things are just starting to click about my experience, you know, I'm like,

all right, this is weird. And then I start doing my own research and I'm looking up stuff on YouTube, and then I start watching more videos and people are talking about these things walking around their campsite at night and circle and throwing pine cones. And that's when I'm like, I started shaking, Like I'm shaking right now just recounting this. I'm just like, oh my gosh, I wonder if that's

what I was dealing with out there. And you know, I started listening to the earlier podcasts that were coming out and hearing encounters and watching everything and just trying to soak up as much knowledge as possible. I started buying books and you know, doing all kinds of research and kind of pinpointed it to that. So I did like kind of like a full circle there. I went from not knowing to making fun of the pretty much firmly delue. What happened to us that day was these

creatures that we kind of imposed on. We came into their area where they lived. You know, we were making noise, we had you know, we were blasting punk rock from from you know, battery operated boom boxes and you know, knocking trees down, building stuff. You know, we were just in their area.

I almost almost like fell over. That's exactly what it looked like, looked like a spider. The way it it's its anatomy is it's it's not like if me and you got on our hands and knees or on the ground. It's a little different. It was just an inhuman way of moving. It was very like fast rapid, Like I mean, I'm talking like something that can do like a three sixty on all fours and just stay really low to the ground within like a second and just completely run

the opposite way and just disappear. I mean, this thing had very, very very inhuman kind of movements. That was That was my first encounter. That kind of gave me the realization that these things are real and these things are out there. At the same time, I thought, you know, as mad as we made these these things that were living out there, they never physically harmed us. They terrified us. They never came into that you know, they never heard us,

they never grabbed us. They could have knocked a tree over onto us if they wanted to while we were sleeping in that tent. They never did that. And that kind of got me, kind of got me over my fear of being alone in the woods again. So, I mean, from that time up until you know, twenty twelve ish, I did not enjoy being in the woods at all. I did not like it. I had PTSD from it. It was it was just, you know, it was something

I did not do. I did not like it. I had a friend who lived out in the woods, you know a few years later, and I stayed at his house a couple of times back in the day, and yeah, I wouldn't I wouldn't even go out to smoke a cigarette at nighttime out there. I had a healthy fear of it. Yeah, did you.

up with about that. And he's like, yeah, yeah, you know, the only person we saw that day was our other friend, and he was kind of like a goody goodie boy, like he wasn't the one to you know, any kind of connections for any acid or anything. I'm like, you realize, like, he's the only person so we saw, and we both had the exact same experience, heard the same things, saw the same thing, you know, a little strange. He's like, yeah,

I never thought of that. Like he's like, yeah, damn near impossible that we would ever be slipped anything like yeah, And I kind of left it at that for him to ponder on. He's like, that's freaking weird man. Ever since I brought that up to him, though, he will not talk about it. I've tried to text him about it. I've tried to kind of slowly, you know, feel him out for it. Yeah, but yeah, he does not want to. He does not want to talk about it. He kind

of yeah. I think I think that kind of affected him a little too much too.

the first place you would kind of go is like, man, we must be tripping, like somebody must have slipped us something. You know, like nothing else is going to be on your radar, and you're trying to You're trying to make sense of that experience because not having knowledge of what was going on is even more terrifying.

And then I you know, I got the idea to let people know like if if you have an encounter, give me a call, shoot me a d M, and I'll illustrate your encounter for you for free. I thought that was pretty fun. So I've been doing that for the past few years. And then I started having some experiences of my own. I started going out in the woods a lot more. I started, you know, I had I didn't really have a fear of the woods like I used to once I once I came to the

realization that these things did not hurt us. These things we made, we pissed them off so much, and they didn't They did not ever touch us or throw anything. We never got hit by a rock. I mean, they could have done so much damage to us. So I kind of like got over that that fear and started going out into the woods again and foraging again. And I'm big into mycology. So, you know, we we have a friend that lives up in the Redwoods. We drive up there twice a year now. She lives in the

middle of the Redwoods. Her she's a cabin that's that was built in the late eighteen hundreds. It's got like a really cool wood burning stove. It's very old, very cool. It's got a wrap around porch. The beams of the porch literally go down into this really cool rapids like a it's pretty fast even creek. I mean, she is out there, so we go visit her, and then all

these other experiences start happening. Now I'm fully aware. I also, I want to say, I got an in my instructor's certificate in military krav Maga during the durt around that time we started going out there. One thing we teaches self awareness. I mean we're taught to just keep our heads on a swivel at all times. I have this new I have a new self awareness about me. I have my head. I'm looking at everything. I'm looking up, I'm looking down, I'm looking between trees, I'm looking at

all the dark spots, the shadows. So we're going We're up there. We're doing some hikes. The first time we went up to the Redwoods, it was the rainy season. There was turkey tail mushrooms everywhere. So I'm out there just forging away on these turkey tails. My family went back to the cabin because we have a we have a young son at that time, he was probably three. He couldn't make you know, he couldn't do any big

hikes at that time, so I stayed out there. I ended up doing an overnight collecting mushrooms, and then that's when I started having another encounter experience. I heard vocalizations down by the water, down by the creek at night, and most most of the sound was just the creek. You could just hear the water. It was very loud. But I started hearing these like rumbles and kind of chatter, like two things talking to each other down by the water.

So when the sun came up in the I went over to investigate, and that's when I found a very large set of tracks i'd say over around nineteen inches long five and a half inches wide at.

it starts filling up with water. Yeah, just like that I mean this thing was probably four and a half inches deep, and it was just filled with water, perfect perfectly shaped like a human kind of foot, except wider. Mm hmm. That's around the time where I'm like, Okay, well I think these things are here. So I just kept following those those that trackway, and that's where I

noticed another one that was smaller. It was probably half the side of that one, but also a very distinct barefoot track in the middle of the redwood and in the rainy season. You know, no one's walking around there with bare feet during that time. So yeah, I started noticing that started photographing those. I started just after after I saw those tracks. I started just taking pictures of

the forest around me, just very candid shots. I would have my cell phone just I would be walking with like cross arms, with my phone under like under my arm and kind of just poke it out a little and just take like a shot and then hide it again. I was trying to be as you know, candid as possible. When I got back to that cabin, I started going through my photos, and yeah, I started finding what look like to me sasquatch looking at me, hiding, you know,

from behind trees, and stuff. I started seeing them in my photos, and that's when I started posting them on my UH on my page and sharing them with people and trying to get feedback from from other researchers, and I know I sent I sent a bunch to At one point, I sent a punch to Ronnie LeBlanc. He found a few of them pretty intriguing. Other researchers I've shared them with have also also found some of those

photos pretty cool. We started going there, you know, like I said, twice a year, and each time we had, you know, some sort of experience, I would go. I would go pretty deep out there. I would usually do about probably like fourteen fifteen mile hikes during the day and just kind of go like about six seven eight miles deep and kind of turn around. I like to go off trail too, so I don't like to really stick to any major trails. But even the area we were in, it's not very uh, it's not like a

it's not like a hotspot. It's not like some some you know, like Yosemite or you know, Sequilias where there's like a thousand people on the trails. You don't run into anyone out there. You might run into like you know, like a trail runner or two here and there, but that's about it. So it's pretty secluded. And I started finding tree structures, big xes everywhere, very large x is.

Like I'm like, you know, thirty foot tall trees six inches around, you know, seven inches eight inches around, stuffed into the grounds like, you know, very bizarre kind of structures that I started finding everywhere and get like anytime I was in those areas and I started seeing that, I started feeling that feeling that everyone talks about where

you're kind of being white. And there was certain areas that I was like heading in a certain direction and all of a sudden, I just felt the urge like I needed to just stop and just not go that way.

mean hundreds of pictures. I would just start snapping away and then I would, you know, during my free time, be just going through them, zooming in, kicking screenshots of certain things, zooming in more, looking at every little shadow and cracking crevice, and you know, just scanning every single picture.

And then you know, once in a while, well you just see an eyeball, and then you follow that eyeball down you see a nose and a cheek and maybe like a part of a mouth, hanging out from the side of a tree and you see fur or hair. You know. When I started, you know, getting more, I started seeing this more and more in my pictures, and it was it was pretty cool. I mean I was just blown away by it. I was like, I can't believe how close these things are. And I had no idea.

You don't see them when you're there. You know, it's like it could be ten feet from you, these giant creatures, and you don't. You have zero visuals until you start going through your photos and then you're like, okay, wow. So I knew they were there, and keep fast forward. We kept going. I kept doing, you know, anytime I was up there to be out in the woods. Almost the whole time. I got my wife and my son. We brought the dog. At one point I found this

really cool area. It was right off the main road. There was no trail, there was no parking or anything. We kind of just parked on the side of the road. I saw just cut out in the trees and when you drive by it and you look in, there's just beautiful. I mean, it just looks beautiful. Ferns and red woods and it just looks magical, almost so I was like, I need to get in there. I want to go check that area out. It was it was probably about let's say, five miles from my friend's cabin, so we

we decided to go there one day. It's a very steep incline going up, but we were all feeling up for it. It was early, so the whole family we went in. We're hanging out at the bottom. My son's, you know, very young at the time, three four years old, so you know, he's having a blast in the woods. The dogs are running around like crazy, and I'm like, all right, well, let's let's get up to the top of this ridge and see what's going on up there.

So we did. We started going up and as we're going up, I start hearing very loud thumps on the on on on a tree. I believe these trees. The bark on these trees is super thick, and it's kind of soft. It's kind of it's not like, you know, like like a hard bark from like a pine tree or something a normal like pine tree. It's got like softness to it. If you punch it with your fist, it's kind of got some cushion into it. So when you sump it. If you take your hand and open

hand and cup it and just thump it. D of has this distinct sound. It's very muffled and just you know, that's what I was hearing, but very loud, like just a it sounded like a big hand, just something away on a on a redwood. When we were the only ones out there. I mean, it was in the middle of nowhere and my wife, my wife starts getting startled at this point. She's making fun of me for for getting into the whole big foot thing. And I will also add this, she has no idea about my first encounter.

I have not told her to this day, and I probably won't. She's she's also an LCSW licensed clinical social worker. She kind of, you know, she's in that mental health field. I have a feeling if I ever told I told her about this story, she'd have me you know you oh, I would be analyzed. I would be on some some heavy medications. So yeah, I kind of kind of just

keep that one to myself. But yeah, either way, she's she makes fun of me all the time for the whole you know, watching all this you know, bigfoot stuff and drawing Bigfoot all the time. And it's just funny. I mean, she doesn't really care. She just kind of bust my chops about it. Yeah. But we're going up this, uh this, to the top of this ridge and we hear that and she says, what is that? And you know, I go, I'm not going to say it. I think I know what it is, but I'm not going to

say it. And she she just goes, bigfoot. Yeah, it could be. I don't know, it might not be. Might be just someone, you know, hitting a tree in the middle of the forest. Yeah, could be. We keep going and we hear it again in another direction, almost like it's being answered, and she goes, this sounds just like those videos you showed me where these things are, where those bigfoots are tree knocking or whatever. I'm like, yeah, it sure does, doesn't it. It's very loud. She's like yeah.

She's like, this is weird. And we get we start going up. We get all way up to the top and there's a little clearing. There's some big redwood tree fall and my son was hungry, so he stopped and sat on the redwood. He was climbing around. He had a little snack like a cliff bar or something, and we were just chilling and the dog was starting to

act up a little. She started to I mean, she was just running around like crazy the whole time, like having a blast, And all of a sudden, she's like between my legs, just like staring up at me with these like big eyes, like like what's wrong with you? And we're sitting there and right at the next like we're on this top clearing I would say, there's more trees really thick, probably about I would say fifty just fifty to seventy five yards away, like it started getting

like a lot thicker. And we started hearing something coming walking heavily in that in that thick brush, and my wife just looks at me, she's like what is that? And I kind of got up, and my dog is still between my legs, just like staring up at me, like she wasn't even going toward it. I mean, usually when she hears something in the woods, she's an Aussie Shepherd Border Collie mix. She's a hurting dog. She sees anything running through the woods, she just goes after it.

She doesn't want to heard it, she just wants to go check it out, but she books it. I mean, and their fast dogs. These dogs can run almost thirty miles an hour. She was just between my legs and just staring up at me, looking really scared. And I'm like, all right, well, let's just head back down. Let's just head back down the other way. And my wife's like, yeah, yeah,

let's just get out of here. So we all get up and we start, you know, grabbing my son and you know, putting the leash on the dog, and we're about to head down the way we came pretty much, and me and my wife, all of us and my son, we all heard this perfect oop, loud, you know, loud, deep guttural whoop, followed by what sounded like a gorilla grunting. It was just like a like that, like one of one to three, I don't know what it was a couple maybe two grumps after and we're like we just

I saw my wife's face. She looked at me and she's like, what was that? And I said it again. I'm like, you know, if I tell you probably make fun of me. But there's only one thing that makes that noise out here. And it's not a bear, and it's not a coyote. It's not a mountain lion, and

she's like, all right, whatever, let's just go. So we're heading down kind of with a quick pace, and I see her eyes think she's like starting to come to the realization that maybe I all the stuff I tell her and show her might not be so far fetched after all. And we're walking down this very steep I mean, we're kind of sliding on our butts part of the way on the way down. It was, it was really

really steep. And we're walking and then we just start hearing this kind of moaning, really weird moaning sounds like uh. She's like, what is that? And that's I'm just like, I don't know, I have no idea. It's very creepy. Just keep walking slowly, don't run, just keep walking. We'll just kind of exit slowly, and you know, everyone stay together and you know, keep your head on a swivel. So we're just walking and then all of a sudden,

this little piece of quartz, like a milky quartz. I think it was probably about the size of a marble, not shaped like a marble. It's you know, very raw, just comes slying and just hits this redwood tree like right by my head and thumbs on to the ground, and I just looked down and I'm like, what the heck is that? How did this? Like well, something just threw this at us. So let's just let's just let's

just keep going. Let's just keep getting out of here, all right, Whatever this is does not one us here. I picked the thing up, I kept that little piece of quartz, put it in my pocket. We just kept walking, and then we all kind of stopped and heard it sounded like a baby crying. And then that sound got very swiftly muted, almost like something like covered the mouth of a baby.

where that baby sound came from. So I'm looking around, I'm just trying to like investigate a bit, and just you know, I'm snapping hundreds of pictures of course, and we're down at the bottom and you could see like the kind of just kind of cut out where like that leads to our car eventually, so we kind of felt a little safer down there, so we kind of My son wanted to play in the woods a bit. It was like, you know, grabbing big sticks and smacking

them against trees. And I found some shelf mushrooms that were really cool. I was, you know, like I said, into my college. I'm still into my college, so I'm like taking pictures of mushrooms and stuff. I was actually drumming on these these shelf mushrooms like Jim Carrey did in pet detective too. Yeah, I'm like playing like wipe out on these like shelf mushrooms, and my son's smacking sticks against trees and stuff and not in not for

a reason. He was just having fun. And then we're making all this noise down there, and in the distance I hear it sounded like a loud scream, but like very far away that kind of not scream, more like like a like a like a siren, you know, but very far away. It sounded like like almost like that Ohio Howell kind of sounds to it, which was pretty cool. I was like, wow, that and we all heard it. My wife is like, you know what, I don't think we're gonna be taking our son here hiking anymore. And

it is a little too much for me. For a brief second, I think she believed in big foot. Yeah, either way, we taking videos of my son. He's uh, this is where I got really creepy taking a video and then my son's in this in the video. I'm like, his name, you know, I'm just I don't want to say his name, but I'm like, everybody, you know, what are you doing? And he's got my wife's phone and he's like about to have a little temper tantrum because he can't get the camera to switch to selfie mode.

And it's super cute. I mean, he's four years old and he's like starts freaking out about this phone. And then I'm just videotaping him and I'm like, all right, well, this isn't a good video. You're you're starting to act up, and I just turned the video off and then you know, we calm him down, leave, we get back to the

cabin whatever. I'm going through my pictures and this and that, and that's when I started finding some very odd findings in my pictures, especially when he started freaking out about the phone. There was this these two trees in the background that kind of went down into a V. It was like the opening came down into a V between these two trees the way they were angled, and right in the bottom of that V. Well, he's freaking out.

You can see this head moving behind trying to get a good look at him, and it it's it's literally you could see it like moving to try to get it like just to really lock onto him, and it's really creepy. I'm like looking at this thing, like what is that so I started zooming in and taking you know, screenshot after screenshot, trying to capture like just some image of what this thing could be. And yeah, it was. It was. It had eyes, it had a it was. It looked to me like it was a Saslutch nose eyes.

You can see part of its upper teeth coming out, almost like it had its head tilted back, but was like trying to look forward at the same time, trying to like just really remain hidden. I'm going through my pictures and right where I heard that baby cry, I have a picture that can only be described as an infant space with grace gain. You could see the eyes, the nose, it's a it's a it's a it's a

face in a bush. And I'm looking at this thing and I'm zooming around and I'm looking through this this foliage and you can see also it's being held by a mother. Something else is there. And it is not in full you know, it's not in It's very fated looking. It almost looks like it's you know, not translucent. I don't know, it's just foggy. But you can make out the eye, the cheek bone, you can make out the part of the nose and make out the shape of the head. You could even see some some hair, and

it was looking right at my son as well. The eyes were If you look at the picture, the eyes are pointed. You could see the pupil pointed right at my son, which I started noticing a lot more after I saw that. I started looking at all the pictures of my son that I took in the in the redwoods back there, and there were a few pictures where you can see some creatures and the eyes would be directed right at him like they were very interested in him.

And it seemed like anytime I took him out in that area, these things would come around us like a lot closer than usual.

a little anxiety. You know, I don't know what their interest is with them. You hear, you hear some stories where you know, I mean there's a full spectrum of stories. You hear stories where they help people, you hear stories where they take people. You know, you know, it's it's just hard to judge something that is so unknown. So yeah, I kind of feel a little nervous about taking them out there, at least really deep, deep out there anymore.

Like if we go now, I kind of stick to like more well traveled trails when I'm with him, and you know, I have my I mean, I am on high alert the whole time. I do not let him run ahead. I'm like, I'm very strict when it comes to being out there. Now. My wife actually makes fun of me, said, wow, you're so strict. Just let them say, you know what, I'm not going to let him run ahead of us, Like, if he's fifty feet ahead of us, that's enough time for anything to grab him. I mean,

he weighs forty pounds, soaking wet. I mean, you know, it's not that hard to carry a forty pound kid off into the woods. So throughout very very strict when it comes to, you know, being out there with him anymore.

it's completely see through. It has black skin, and the way the hair itself is shaped between that and the black skin and its surroundings, it picks up its surroundings. That's that's an adapt and that's how it adapts. That's how it hides from baby seals. It can sneak up on anything. It could remain almost completely unseen on the on the ice and in this and in the snow. I think maybe these things might have, you know, adapted

something similar. You know, you hear all this, you know, lack of a modulla talk all the time, you know, Meldrum talks about it all the time. How all the hair samples he gets have the lack of modulla, which is the central core of a hair follicle. You know, if that's the case, then could these things possibly soak up texture and color of its surroundings and just kind of blend in a little easier and their skin is complete. I mean, from what I've seen, the skin looks completely

like battleship gray, which just blends into anything. If you have that gray skin and then hair that can literally the way it's shaped. I mean, you think of like these cloaking mechanisms that the military develops. What if the hair can actually do that? What if can it bend light like a prism and just bend light around it to never behind it? You know, it shows that texture. I have no idea. That's kind of where I'm what

I'm thinking. Yeah, I always try to come up with like a scientific explanation for this stuff, or you know, you can't half the time. I mean, then you start talking about these balls of light that are seen with these things, and then all of a sudden everything gets thrown down the two I'm like all right, Well, I have no explanation for that, right.

the morning kind of time. And he said a ball of light was traveling through the woods and came up to the passenger side window of his car and was keeping pace with him down the road, ended up moving in front of the car and was still keeping pace with him, and then just darted off into the woods and he saw he saw it moving through the trees. Yeah. And my dad is the type of dude to even talk about any of this kind of stuff. He's very like,

you know, put together. He doesn't really For him to tell me that was incredible in my opinion, I mean just to hear him admit that. To me, I was like, Wow, that's that means something coming from him, because he's not the kind of guy that like want to even talk about that kind of stuff. He gets kind of he's very reserved. I guess, you know.

could even scientifically describe like the glowing red eyes. I mean, I don't know where I just heard this, but someone was talking about this fish called the dragonfish that's a deep sea fish, and the fish developed the ability to give out a red light through its eyes and see in infrared in the deep sea where it's completely black.

So I'm thinking, if a fish can develop something that puts out a red light so that it can see an infrared, who's to say that a land mammal that you know, has to live mostly nocturnally because of human encroachment didn't over time develop the ability to see an infrared at night. Because you talk about you hear these stories about hunters, and hunters go out. I mean they start walking out to their tree stands at what three in the morning sometimes, Yeah, three in the morning. Yeah,

you're going out there early. You want to get up before you know, you want to get out there before the sun comes up. And these people are avid outdoorsmen. These people are all seeing the same thing, and they're describing it not as eye shine. We've all seen eye shine. If they're describing this, these eyes to have a glow to them, like they're putting out their own light, who's

to say that these things can't see in infrared. There was a guy who was just talking about how he saw the eyes go from completely red to amber, to yellow to a greenish tint and then almost to a light blue, all within a couple minutes the same creature. I've taken pictures where I've seen these things. They have fun. It's crazy, like I'll see, I'll take a whole bunch of pictures of the same spot and if there's a

creature in it. I've taken a couple where you see the complete eye, you see the the pupil, you almost see like the actual color of the eye. It's almost like a like a beige color where our color would be, you know, around the surrounding the pupil. And then in another picture it almost looks like it's crazy to explain, but it almost looks like a film over the eye that changes the color completely into like this amber color. You know how certain animals have like a protective like

an like an under eyelid. It almost looks like it has an under eyelid, like a protective layer or something. That's how That's the only way I can explain how it looks. It's very interesting though, and I've noticed that a couple of times with with photos of these things.

you know, before the white man came, these things. I mean there's stories, there's there's Native stories where these things would you know, trade with with natives and they spoke the same, you know, similar languages. They were able to communicate with each other and all this stuff, and you know, during that time, these things were probably able to come out during the day a lot more and they didn't

have to worry about hiding so much. Now. I mean, when you think about some of these areas where these these things lived. I mean you think like you think these things live in like the most remote areas of the world. They probably do. They do, but they also live right in urban areas too. I mean, there's a there's that video of one going through a dumpster at like a wal Mart or something, you know. I mean, these things are living pretty close to people. They have

to hide. They know how dangerous he thems are. Over time, they must have adapted some sort of skills, biological skills to help them, you know, navigate at night. I don't know. I also have another theory. I don't know how valid this is or sounds, but I've been noticing I hear a lot of clicking, especially where I am in southern California. And you wouldn't think that these things are in southern California, But believe me when I tell you, these things are

out here in southern California in these mountains. I have a lot of experiences with with these things out here, and I hear these teeth clicks all the time like that, and I hear click like like that kind of finger popping sounds a lot, and I'm always wondering, like what these sounds mean, and I'm always doing research and trying

to figure out what anything could be. And a couple of weeks ago I started doing some research and I don't know how I got to this, to this rabbit hole, but there was a guy who was blinded as a child. He couldn't see anything, and he literally a human being developed a way to echo locate using clicks.

you know where everything is. I mean they can if you can echo locate and you could see infrared, I mean, come on, I mean, you're like, it would give them such insane abilities to just be able to navigate through those areas at night. I mean, and I cannot come up with another explanation of how they can move silently through a pitch black forest at nighttime, completely stealthy like that. Yeah, so that was just another theory I had. I don't

know how valid that is or anything. It could just sound like a big idiot, but no, not at all.

it's it's incredible. I was traveling to northern California all the time and thinking I had to travel all the way up there until someone told me about this spot out here, a buddy at work. Actually we're just you know, talking about you know, the forest. I just love being in the forest. I feel very comfortable in a home in the forest. I love doing bushcraft, and you know, we're just talking about this, and I'm like telling them, the worst part about living in southern California is there's

no forests. All the hikes out here are canyons and desert, and you know, it's beautiful, but it's not. It doesn't give me that satisfaction. I just love being surrounded by trees. So then he told me, oh, well, there is a spot. It's in the Cleveland National Forest. It's less than an hour from I live in San Diego. It's less than an hour from here. You could drive there in fifty two minutes and you could be right in the middle

of the forest. And the whole time, I mean, I've had lived out here for over a decade, had no idea it was there. And not only does he tell me about it, but he also has a best friend who owns the cabin out there, and she's never there. She lives in la and the cabin is basically just kind of like her. She goes there twice a year maybe, and it just you know, it fits, and she lets him go up whenever he wants. So we started going up to that cabin a lot and it was very,

very very secluded. I mean my car couldn't even make it down the road to get to the cabin. The road is just a dirt cut out in the middle of the woods that goes for a few miles in. I mean it is very hilly lots. I mean you need a four wheel, you need a g or something to get back there. I have a a Nissan road that think that think cannot make it back there. I

mean it's pretty rugg it back there. So, yeah, we would we would go out to the cabin and you know, you know, I'd bring throwing axes and we'd be out there in the back, you know, throwing axes and knives and all kinds of stuff, just you know, hanging out and going on hikes during the day and this and that. Well, when we were going back to the cabin for the first time, we went the wrong way. He couldn't remember the road. There was a there's like a few cutouts,

and it's really it's kind of hard to find. So we went down the wrong road. It eventually led to the cabin. But we're going down this road and there's this sign back there that the Cleveland National Forest UH Rangers put up. It was like this official Cleveland National Forest bulletin that was back there, and there was a probably not it that said bigfoot creatures have been seen out here. Please stay on mark trails at all times.

And I thought, what the hell, like is this is this forest actually recognizing these things and just you know warning people. It was. It was cool to see. I was like, holy crap, Like I'm like, that's that's interesting.

you know, like five six of us. I'm a chef, so I also I made like a whole bunch of Jamaican food. I made like this big giant curry and all these Johnny cakes and all kinds of cool Jamaican food. It was so good. And we just kind of hung out back and ate a bunch of food, and we were drinking some beers, and we were saving the beer cans to shoot the next day. We're gonna set them up in the desert and just you know, and shoot them.

We're all chilling. At the end of the night, we all start going in and cleaning up outside, and I noticed one of the dudes was scraping his bowl of food into the bag with the cans, and I'm like, dude, we're gonna s hit those cans tomorrow while you're putting while you pick and covering them in food. He's like, oh shoot, sorry, oh man. I'm like whatever, we'll just think we'll just clean it up tomorrow. We'll just dig around him. So I didn't think anything of it. The

bag was left on the back porch. We all go in. The cabin has two bedrooms. You have to go through one bedroom to get to the second bedroom. That's kind of the layout. I took the far bedroom on the back wall of the cabin. My buddy who scraped the food into the bag, took the second bedroom. And then the guy who my buddy, who you know, is best

friends with the lady who owns the cabin. He likes to stay on the big giant couch out in the living room, and they had this big kind of faux fur thick carpet, and then one dude like slept on the carpet. It was just like a whole bunch of us just kind of a bed in there. And I would say around three point thirty in the morning, I got woken up by the exact same screen that I heard out in the Pine bearings when I was a kid.

That sounded like a woman being murdered outside. That actually was so loud that you could hear the glass in the windows shaking. It was loud, and that woke me up, and I was sitting straight up, and I'm like, what the hell is that. I'm just like sitting there staring. There's the whole room, like right where the bed is

is surrounded by windows. So I'm in the bed, just surfounded by windows, and they have curtains down, and I just I'm sitting there staring and I see movement like something's walking, and then I start hearing footsteps outside the window, and this windows two feet from my head. I'm just like,

oh great, something's out there. And then I hear something step up onto the porch, and I hear that bag, and I hear the cans shaking, and I hear like big deep sniffs, and then I hear more cans shaking, and then the cant the bag of cans drops, and then it just sounds like something full speed just sprinted off the porch. That kept me up for the rest of the night. Yeah, in the morning, I'm like sitting there like like, holy crap. Like I didn't I didn't

even want to say anything in the morning. I was just like, wonder if anyone else heard this. I'm not gonna say anything about this. I'm gonna wait as soon as I come out in the morning. And my buddy's my buddy, the one who scraped the food into the thing into the bag. He's like, did you guys hear that last night? That screen? He was the other one in the bedroom. He he was freaked out by it. He's like something he explained exactly what I just explained.

Some Both me and him were just sitting up like what the hell. The other two dudes were in the living room. They didn't they I mean I think they. I don't really drink, so I was. I was pretty sober. I drank like a beer, maybe so did my buddy. But the two of them were, the two guys in the living room were like partying it up, so they were like they were self passed out. They didn't hear anything. I saw a look in my buddy's face, and yeah, he he was terrified. He definitely heard something he had

never heard before. He grew up out in out in like a forested area too, so he was he was, He was like, I've never heard that sound in the woods before. Like yeah, like I said, it sounded just like that scream. So I started going there twice a week ever since that first time in the cabin, and

just it's right along the Pacific Crest Trail. The Pacific Crest Trail, I believe, starts in Mexico if I'm not mistaken, and it goes all the way up through southern like San Diego County southeast up into the mountains, and right where that cabin is is probably like a mile from where that Pacific Crest Trail where you can get it. Access to that trail so I'm over there all the time. I go all different directions all the time. I have found very deep, large footprints. I've heard the rock clacking.

I've gotten some incredible photos. These things all around me grouped up into what I've been calling just pile ups. I've noticed that they like to pile up on each other and cover each other's faces with their arms, and they huddle up into the darkest shadows of trees and rocks and get really low to the grounds. And it's incredible. Some of these photos you can see, like we can see like six seven of them just piled up. You could see little ones. I got a photo one time.

My dad and my stepmother came out to visit, and they wanted to do a cool hike, and I brought them up there. My son came with us. We were all hiking, and I mean we didn't even go deep off trail. We were pretty much sticking onto the trails. If we did go off trail, it was just you know, maybe like a couple hundred yards in the most and then we'd come, you know, make our way back the same way we came. Yeah, you know, I don't know.

I had my son with me, so he you know, I don't want to really you go deep off grid with him. But we're up there, and is it Me and my son one of us banged a stick against the tree really loud. The video was fine.

our tracks. And my son's like, what was that? You know? My dad's like, yeah, what was that? I'm like, you know what, I don't know what that was, but I've never heard it up here. Maybe we should probably turn around and start heading out. I didn't. It didn't feel normal, didn't feel comfortable. And during that time I started taking a bunch of pictures and that's when I got one

of the craziest pictures I've ever seen. Of this little infant that barely had any hair on him, he was all gray, on the shoulder of another one who was looked very neanderthal like, very caveman like. And he's on the shoulder of that one. And then right underneath them, peeking up is another one. It's a very small one, probably about the size of my son, who was five at the time, just a few feet tall, peeking out.

And then right to the left of them was the right side profile of a face that was, I mean so detailed. You can see the eyes, the ear, you can see its hairline, you can see its kind of orangey brown hair going into the black. You can see his hand covering his face, all his fingers, the wrinkles

in the knuckle, the fingernails, you can see everything. There was a whole group of them right there, probably about twenty five thirty yards from us, and I think that noise was a warning that we were getting too close, because there was a lot of young ones right there. You have all these, yeah, I've got all these. I've got multiple albums in my phone, and each album has an incredible amount of photos of these creatures from that area. I have different I have all albums from different areas,

all labeled the timestamped. Everything I keep, I keep a I keep it pretty. Uh what's organized?

the same stuff. We're finding tree structures and noises and you know the same sort of photos of these blurry yahwi's or whatever. You know. It's incredible, But yeah, everything's posted.

the more you do it, the better you get. You know what to look for. You start learning these creatures abilities, and you know how to you come up with ways of trying to find them. Like a lot of pictures I don't see. I'll see just a little hint of something where I think it might be some you know, a creature, and then you go in there and you zoom in and you adjust the exposure a little bit, and you adjust the contrast a little bit, and all of a sudden, these things start popping out like details.

I'm not talking like paradolia. I'm talking detail like eyeballs, nose, mouth, jawline, everything, hair, ears, You could see the perfect human ear. You know, is it's incredible. You know, you get a lot of those, a lot of people that don't really understand the abilities these creatures have. They try to they try to tell

you everything's paradolia, everything's a tree, everything's a rock. But once you really understand how these creatures are and how they're able to camouflage, you start learning these different tricks and stuff. And yeah, I have people sending me pictures all the time and they're like do you see anything

in this? And yeah, I'll I will scrub the picture, I'll go through it and do all the tricks I have, And a lot of times I find them and send them, send these people back these photos of these creatures that they that were right next to them. They had no idea. So now it's then becoming a thing. I'm getting like, I'm getting sent loads of pictures all the time, like hey,

can you go through this for me. You know, I have a buddy who's out in Oregon who I met just through my page and he's he's on the coast of Oregon in this beautiful rainforest and he's constantly, constantly taken him he's out there every day. Back his name's

Backwoods Bigfoot on Instagram. If anyone wants to check his stuff out, and yeah, he'll send me some videos or he'll even just post, you know, stories, and I'll take screenshots to some of his videos and some of the creatures that I have gotten that I have found, and some of his pictures are absolutely incredible, incredible. I mean I just found one about two weeks ago in one of his pictures that was the full side of a large, large sasquatches. You could see his arm, his biceps, I mean,

his hand is grasping something. I don't know what it's grasping, but you can see his thumb and you could see his knuckles and wear his hair meets the wrist and kind of turns into like that gray skin his face it is, I mean, it looks like King Kong. This thing. Wow, the arm is about as wide as I am round. I'm a big dude. I'm six three two fifty. This thing is as big as my torso where his bicep is. I mean, the power, the hands, The hands are so huge,

the fingers are so thick. I mean, the fingers look about as thick as my son's fricking arm, like six year old kid's arm. I mean, I mean, these things are huge and they are able to hide. I mean this photo I have that he took. If you look at the photo, the whole photo, before you zoom in, it looks just like a beautiful rainforest. You just see trees and you see the ferns and the plants. And then I start zooming in for people and pointing things out,

and they're like, holy crap. I mean, talk about hiding literally in plain sight. I mean, the way these things can use that ability to I hate the word cloaking. I don't like using that word cloaking, but there's there's really no other word that is used for this ability yet. You know, but the way they're able to soak up the background noise is incredible, and they just disappear. You

could just barely see the outline. It's almost like The Predator, you know, yeah, the movie The Predator they just completely just tone out and they are right there, right in front of you. It's amazing. I've got a couple of pictures from northern California where I have one huge one. I mean, this thing must have been I mean I'm talking twelve feet tall. The hands on this thing or

the size of my head, the fists. Also the arms, like like I said, some of these arms are almost i mean they've got to be almost forty inches around. That's how big these things are. I mean, it's incredible the size. And then you think about how silent they are and how's it's just mind blowing. You know.

some cool ideas. You know, I'm basically doing it just for the cool idea and a cool experience, and you know, it's fun to bring someone's encounter to life for them that they they can keep forever. And you know, I also have like an online store which I will usually post those pieces of art and then you know, other people can can buy shirts of it and hats and

all kinds of cool stuff if they want. And yeah, and I usually just, uh, I'll send whoever whoever gave me the encounter, I will send them a print of the art in the mail. Yeah, it's been pretty fun doing that just kind of brings the community together, and

you know, that's what we need more of. I feel like we need more of just like a open mindedness, and everyone's got to just, you know, hear each other out a little more, you know, because I feel like there's a lot of big egos in this field, and there's a lot of there's a little bit too much negativity sometimes, and I'm just like, I'm just trying to be a positive outlet where someone can open up and not have to worry about feeling like, you know, they're

gonna get judged or anything. You know, I've heard some crazy stories. I mean, I heard a story where an army this army guy was telling me that his friend traveled through an orb to another world after getting poked with tree fall through his stomach. And you know, some of these stories are incredibly bizarre and out there, but you really can't with the subject. You cannot discredit people. You cannot You have to hear everyone out, you know, And That's what.

for instance, the spider crawling and all those things. Man, So I really do appreciate you reaching out to me and setting this up and coming on here and sharing.