Ep:104 Bigfoot Brothers

That's when all hell brokes. I mean there was screaming and roaring and yelling, and all I could tell you it was like scariest hell. I couldn't wrap my head around because I'd never heard it before. It was loud as crap. All of a sudden, these two trees start shaking. And these trees, these two trees are eight feet maybe ten feet apart at this point, and they're shaking like they're in a snow globe, isolated, just two trees in a calm, tall day, and it was just two trees bowing

absolutely nuts. You get a group and try to shake that tree, you even do it, and the yelling never stopped. It got so aggressive that we actually backed out. It went from really nuts to crazy. We could feel that noise that rever there. So this is all screaming, all all this is going on, sticks, maybe rocks, things like that. You could see splashes because we went pretty far back and it's never fired it down, And then all of a sudden it just stopped. That was it crazy?

It was. It was a long night. Yeah, this is Bigfoot Crossroads. I'm Matt and I am joined by the fabulous Vogel Brothers. Bigfoot brothers man, I don't think I've ever ran across that before. Tim and Eric, welcome to the show. Well, thank you, thanks for having us. Which one of you guys were interested in Bigfoot first and probably around the same time, Yeah, yeah, what got you interested in this crazy

subject? Yeah, I know it. Well, our trip down the rabbit hole was since nineteen seventy six and literally went to see the Bob O the Sasquatch legend Bigfoot, and it was at a local cinemas. We walked next town over watched this thing. It was in November, I guess snow and it was a winter time. And then come December, just before January, all of a sudden, we had this thing come through our backyard with large

tracks. It was just huge foot tracks coming through our backyard, came up the railroad, tracks across the river, went back down across the river again. It was pretty you know, it's a large river. It's not no, it's the Westfield River. This all happened a little town of Aguam in West Springfield and basically it ended up turning out to be a hoax. Yeah, but they were tracks that came in through our yard. Yeah, through our apple and then they went back to the other side and they ended up.

It was a huge deal. We had people from all over the country coming through our backyard following these tracks, and back then they didn't have a lot of bigfoot investigators. And I believe the two that they sent out were from California who I don't remember who they were too. We were too young at the time, but there is an article written about it. But that's

how we got started. Yeah, so this thing just basically came through our backyards, left some large tracks as winter, and you know, at fourteen, you know, you're like the cool kid on the box because all of a sudden, the news and the police and everybody's got the you know, crazy thing in their backyard. And really no one knew about bigfoot around here because it was a West Coast thing, I think, you know, And all of a sudden, that movie probably spurred this guy to make the hoax.

And and you know, there's a lot of people that just fell in love with it and all of a sudden it was a cool thing. So how was the hoax unraveled? Did the guy just admit to it? Yeah, you know, it was some kind of detective found out yeah. Well, the guy started out he was a patrolman and they gave him the case and he worked on it for years and he became a detective. And once he'd be two years into being a detective, he figured it out. And uh, it was just a young kid, y'all, just have playing a

game. But it took it. It took a few years from the figure it out, but it got you guys hooked. Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah. That kint Us started literally he was in our backyard. So we had these thinking and in a while, the investigator's name I think is Lee Frank. When you go back and look through all the the the literature online and the newspaper clippings and whatnot, I believe it was Lee Frank is

the guy. Anyway, you know, we had all these investigators like us and you know, coming through the ark and all of a sudden, you know, you had this weird creature in your backyard. And literally this guy who hopesed it he really did his due diligence because he went he did he went a long way. I mean he traveled a long way in snow and plywood feet in order to get this out. Because he literally he came from the Veterans Bridge up a canal road across the frozen canal, across the railroad

tracks, up the mountain to our house. Uh, followed the creek all the way up to our backyard. Our backyard had napple orchard in it, and uh, and then went out kind of out the back way, sort of the way it came in up that that valley, and then walked up the railroad tracks to the dam across the Westfield River and at that point, and it was quarter mile wide. You know it's pretty wide. Yeah it was. It was frozen, but uh, you know, we had rules

we couldn't we couldn't go on the ice, and we didn't. So that's as far as we went. But you know, we were following these tracks at work. Yeah, little bit we know it was. But it was cool, you know, all the hype and everything going on. So Bigfoot was in our backyard and that's how we knew. It's all America, folks,

for not Bigfoot was there. I just find that fascinating though, because so many people you have these situations, as I'm sure you're both you know, more than aware of where people will look at trackways and things like that and just say, oh, well, there's no way this could have been a hoax. Why would somebody be out here doing this? Right, the first thing you guys encountered was somebody doing the unexpected, something that nobody would

ever do. Why would somebody do this? But yet there they were. Yeah, there's stories out there, you can read about it. Yeah, app in West Springfield, Aguam nineteen seventy six, December. It was pretty wild. Were there like stories of Bigfoot in the area. Nope, No, no, just when that movie was coming out, Yeah, we probably saw, you know, newspaper clipping of it or something and came on the TV maybe and we walked all the way Entagon on the Twin Sylists to go

see it. For us, that was a long walk in the winter, in the snow, and you were seditated. Though. In the seventies there was a lot of sightings around North America. Do you think Bigfoot in movies

and things like that had a lot to do with that. Do you think this sort of thing happened all over the place or do you think there is actually an uptick in side it. I think, you know, the movies probably gave people an outlet say hey, you know, I actually saw something like that one day, you know, and kind of whereas most people.

We've talked a lot of people in our investigations, and a lot of people wouldn't normally talk to them or tell other people about it, and they don't want their names mentioned or be associated with it because you're looking at a boogeyman or a unicorn and they actually saw it, and they don't know how to You don't know how to bring that forward and make reality or sense of it. But you know, we've had our experience. We're knowers. We're not

believers anymore. We know it beyond that. We've had our experience, and you cannot have it as simple as that, so we don't. I think the movies might bring it out in people, Yeah, you know, it might bring it might bring it out to where they can use it, like you said, as an outlet, but they can tell their story. A

lot of people don't tell their story, you know. That's why there's I mean, we haven't had a good report in a long time, you know, and it's because no one wants to actually put themselves out there and say that this is something else. I ponder quite often whenever we're looking at citing reports to try and figure out numbers, and you know how often people are

actually saying these things. You know, here in Oklahoma you still have a lot of rural communities and country folks that don't like talking about that sort of thing, that still avoid the ridicule and the idea of somebody having a sighting and then being brave enough or whatever to come forward with that information and to take the time to think, oh well, let me look it up on

the internet. Let me look to see if there's a place where I can actually report this too, right right, yeah, how many sightings do you think go unreported? Tons? It's quite a bit, I would say, really. In fact, Eric and I have have done investigations with other people and had class A experiences and never really reported it to an official site, you know, which is kind of crazy, because we do as researchers as research, right, yeah, we almost We just don't think of it that

way. Right. Well, it's almost commonplace, you know, because you know, people will scoffer something and say, well, geez, how do they have so many you know, as a red flag, how do you have so many experiences? Well, as researchers can get caught you go on these calls and you get to go where the where the creature was, you know, maybe a day or two or a week prior to look for tracks, look for other evidence. But you're going to places where you know,

it's kind of like their activity. Yeah, perps only get called up when they're needed. You know. It's kind of like a squatch report. You know, you get a report, you go and investigate it. You kind of listen to it, you take it on its merit, what it's you know, what value is in there and and if you want to go and investigate it, you will drive hours to go see, you know, for a good information. Well, uh and we've driven hours to you know,

get junked too. So you know a lot of people have variations on what they see, what they hear, what they do. You know, some places everything's a bigfoot you know with some people. And and to us, you know, we as guides, you know, we are an adventure business

years and we were outdoor guides. We went everywhere and uh, you know, one hundred and fifty days a year spent outside camping or programming, and never ever ever, you know, had had issues with any of these other you know, like people having bigfoot incidences or anything like that, and you know, I don't know, it was kind of it's kind of most interactions. Yeah, it's kind of like when that we brought those school groups into

Connecticut. What got you guys on the path of actually researching and investigating this phenomenon? A trip to the ad Aroundicks New York, New York. Yeah, the Upper Adirondecks. Yeah, as guides. We owned the come Mount and Outdoors and that was for about fifteen years. Retired to business, but it was an adventure education business and we guide all over. We're New York state license guides. We were all over New England, did international stuff as

well. So we've been doing it for a long time, well over twenty twenty five years. But with the business was fifteen years, so years. You know, Kobe shows up, natch out and then you know, because it's a community type thing, you know, working with school programs, it didn't work out so good. The Avarondics was always one of the best places to me. I thought it was one of the nicest places because you were out there away from everybody. Half the time. The cell phone didn't even

work. Yeah, it felt pretty remote. You know, and we used to go out there all the time in this one area, the Floodwood area, so we knew we knew the area very well. We've been doing it for over ten years. And we used to take all our school groups out there, the whole nine yards. And this one time we decided to take our own vacation in and we went out there for for a canoeing trip, right and uh we we paddled out, set up our camp and we uh

we went fishing and Tim. Tim was paddling the canoe while I was fishing, you know, so he's he's watching the shoreline. I'm watching the water. And it's probably one of the best days of fishing I've ever had. You know, he didn't get to enjoy it as much as I did, but I'll tell you I was catching him left and right, and they were good sized fish. And then we there were three to four pounds small if you ever fished around, they were, Yeah, you catch it three or

four pounds smallly on a fly rode. It's nuts, simple as breaking water. They're all over the place. It's a good time. Yeah, But we're headed into the uh just inlet. Yep, it headed towards the beaver dal. So we go. We we passed this island, We going to this in with and the fishing is just as good. It's become a fish story at that point. You're no longer fishing for dinner and we're fishing this braided stream. That's what it is. It's more of a braided stream at

this point. Can't really tell where it's coming from except in one direction. So we're going up this braided stream. We're catching fish, catching fish. We get up to a beaver dam and we're at the lower pond, so it's probably three or four feet above our head. You know. We're sitting in a canoe and now we're fly fishing over the beaver dam, and all of a sudden we get a bike or I got a bike and start bringing

it in and that's when all hellbroke boosts. I mean, there was screaming and roaring and yelling and all this all together like a cacophony of yelling and screaming noise. It's kind of hard to put a that was this and that was that? All I could tell you. It was like scary at cow and I couldn't under I couldn't wrap my head around because I'd never heard it before. All I could tell you it was loud as crap. It was

loud. So we're fishing below this beaver pond, this dam, and uh, they all of a sudden, these two trees start shaking, and these trees were probably we went back a year later, We went back the following year. These two trees are eight feet maybe ten feet apart at this point, and they are shaking like they're in a snow globe. Isolated, just two trees in a calm summer day, fall day, and it was just two trees going absolutely nuts and stick inches in diameter. They were big.

Oh yeah, yeah they were. There wasn't no. I mean, we get a group and try to shake that tree and you ain't even to do it. But but two of them were shaking like they were in a snow globe. And the yelling never stopped. And this went on. It got so aggressive that we actually backed out of the area. And he wanted to go up, or rather I wanted to go up and go closer, but but he didn't want to go so, you know, like the cartoon just kind of ripped it that canoe. But having said that, this thing.

This was actually happening, and yeah, crazy, It was freaky enough and scary enough. Uh. It sounded aggressive, is what it. So it went from really nuts to crazy. Uh, and we backed out further into the water. We're in a canoe. We were out there quite away because we thought maybe this thing was going to charge. And yeah, because we had no clue what it was because we never saw it. That was like

a beating up a mountain lion or something. I don't know, really no clues, but it was that that aggressive and all the animals, like I always said, put all the animals together in a room in a zoo, and it was still wasn't the same noise. It was crazy. It's very nothing you've ever heard Raul hollow yell scream, yeah, all with no wow.

So so this happens and it becomes like, I don't know if you're a fan of Ted Nugent been to a concert, but have you ever been to a Ted NuGen concert and it's loud and the reverb and the concert just hits you in the chest. It's ultimately you know, it's like incredible. And we were feeling that from this this sound that was coming from the woods, we're you know, way back fifty yards maybe one hundred yards, going to one hundred yards back in the water because it got aggressive, so we

backed out. We could feel that noise, that reverb that far out in the water in the canoe. So it was like it was I don't know, it was, it was, it was. And of course we had no phone. We were fishing for dinner and we didn't even own a phone. I don't think, you know, no, I don't think we have one. Yeah, And you know, I work as a ranger. I do this full time, and we've both. Eric's retired so he just squatches all day. He's retired. So so I've had numerous bear encounters, black

bear and they and I'm not boasting. I'm just telling you they always run. I've never had an encounter where it was a scary deal. They've always taken off. They don't sit there and yell and scream and argue and tell you and thro sticks in the lake at you or any of that. None of it. They run. This was no way of bear. It was. It was too aggressive. Whatever it was was was mad enough to to

push us out of there. And I mean screaming. The ones that that that will take off from a lot of things, but we bet that one. That one backed us right out into the middle of the lake. We just stayed there for a while. So this is all screaming. All while this is going on, sticks, uh, maybe rocks, things like that. You could see splashes because we went pretty far back and it never quieted down. Then all of a sudden, it just stopped. That was it.

We finished fishing, kind of didn't really talk about it. No, no, we did it because we all we both knew we had a paddle back to our campsite, which there's less much mile from where this thing just happened on the same side. Yeah. Yeah, it's just you know, a little bit done at the bank there and that's where it's happening. So it's crazy. It was. It was a long night. Yeah, we get back to camp and uh we had dinner, we had a campfire, and uh, you know, we stayed up as long as we were going

to stay up. Eric's and a hammock and I'm in a tent and we're separated pretty far and uh, you know that night, I don't know what time it was. All I could tell you is something came through the campsite. Woke me up, and I'm yelling here there's something in the campsite. But you know, I just give him a manage up. He's a taco, he's asleeping. Yeah, it could be it could be Kyle's wolves. Who knows moose coming through? You've got a tripped or something, and so

it's it was going to be a bad time. And and it was gone as quick as it came. Uh and that was it. And uh so we got the heck out of there real quick the next morning. Next morning, we were backed up and we're done. But that's that's what got us going as adults, really pushed us to say, hey, what's going on. Yeah, we this isn't normal. We could tell you everything, it wasn't right. We couldn't tell you what it was. Yeah, but I

have a feeling it was Bigfoot. Well that's that's what I believe. I believe one now that we Monday morning quarterback that experience, well, we've had a lot of time to look back and listen to other stories and other people talking about it, you know, and and meeting different people like Bobo and Cliff and uh doctor Meldrim and a few of them you know, talking to them, and then you hear it, then you run your story back through your mind and you say, holy crap, there's no other thing that it

couldn't have been. There's there's just no you know. And and where we were was very remote. And if you've ever been in the New York Lake area, it's a boreal forest. It's thick. It's I caught the Pitbull woods. And you don't walk in this place on purpose, you know, the trails are cut out of there's these these forests. There's they're dark at four o'clock, you know, in the summer, when the sun is out

till nine. So these these are dark forests, They're thick. They're not something you're going to just randomly go bush whacking through, not on purpose anyway, not on purpose. And this thing and where we were or whatever it was, there was no need for it to even be there except except for fishing. For fishing. We were there fishing. And if this is as gnarly as an environment as it is, this thing hit dep Remember we were at a beaver dam and this this beaver dam was shaped like a bowl,

and then it went tapered back to a stream, and I believe. We believe that, you know, our good friend Dave mccallaugh as a hand track a bigfoot. You know, it's this ginormous hand foss or hand cast. It's as big as a basketball. So if you if there were two of them there, potentially because there was two trees shaken like crazy, I can see you you got four humongous sized mits maybe straining that water back. They might have been pushing fish and catching fish in that little contained beaver dam.

We were there for fishing, and there was fish in the beaver in the beaver pond, so it's very possible. I always think, you know, why would they be there? You know, it's a random thing. You you you know, if you're a hunter, you're probably gonna go and wait at a you know, feed a lot of water, a lot a bed, a You're you're going there for a purpose, for a reason. Because they're there for a reason and a purpose. It's not the random going through

the woods stuff. That's the guy who's getting lucky. You know, he woke up at a stone wall when he's crossing. You know, that's a really interesting thing because I mean, in essence of beaver dam is just a larger version of a primitive type of fish trap, exactly exactly. And these guys have been around a long time. And dude, these they if their mits are as big as the as the cast that Dave mccolla has. And

you they've been around in the big foot world. Everybody knows what I'm talking about with these ginormous first so you can really scoop the water if they were fishing, and if that's what they were doing, we interrupted it and they got mad and they said get out of here. You know, we started, like I was telling you, he's three and four pound smallies. They break the water and they dance and they're you know, they're all over the place, all across the water, and it's fun on a fly rod,

you know, five weight and it's just bending like nuts. And you know, after a while, it was a lot of fun. Weren't even thinking about dinner, it was. It was about catching fish. And then all of a sudden, all hell broke loose, literally and in moments and seconds, boom, the whole woodline just seemed like it blew up, tree shaking, screaming, things coming out. That's absolutely nuts. That's what sent us to really go down that rabbit hole. Yeah, then we met up with

a few other people. I actually had a camp out. We got into the Facebook world, got into a camp out, met some people and they had a similar story, and kind of one thing led to another. We ended up in Ohio with the Squatchachusetts group as members. We worked with the BFRO things like that, and now we're just kind of, you know,

doing our own thing. It's pretty interesting how different people react to these incidents differently, the incident that you guys had, the encounter you had, you know, and of course bigfoot hindsight, you know, isn't it something once you learn a little bit and get a little experience on your belt and you start looking back at your encounter, how much more information there really is there?

Yeah, why don't you think you guys decided to actually go down that rabbit hole as opposed to just throw your hands up and walk away like so many people do. Oh well we're out, we're outdoorsment anyways. Yeah, we owned an adventure education business, so it was intriguing anyway. Plus it came from our childhood, right, So this was something as an adult you kind of latch your teeth into because you kind of remember it as a kid, and there was some in our mind, there was some truth to it.

I didn't even know what a hoax was, We're honest with you. It didn't care. This thing came through my bad care right and we were like, you know, that was it. It was big fools backyard. And you know, so then we had this experience as an adult, and this was really truly a wilderness experience, encountering what we believed to be a bigfoot maybe two and in a very remote area, and we had we weren't just going home that night. We were there and we weren't coming home.

We were stuck out in the woods. So we made the best of it by by kind of minimizing what we just experienced, I believe, by really not talking about We sit around the campfire, ool crap, and you know, figure, if you didn't talk about it, it didn't happen. Maybe you want something. But then of course it woke me up, or something

woked me up going through the campsite. But yeah, so that's kind of really you know, really getting in the Facebook and meeting up with these other folks having similar experiences and and then kind of solidifies that well, I ain't that crazy. We did have this experience and now I can unhabit, so you know, I just and now we've had many other interactions and you know,

how has that happened. Well, we've got many witnesses with our our you know, we've had multiple Class a's or or visuals and we've been there with ten people that have seen these thiss or heard the nuts or smelted or something like that. It's not like we just walk out and make this stuff

up. There's witnesses to back up the story. So you know, if it's coming out of where we're talking about, there's definitely backups to prove what we're saying as well, with both of you having the background that you have as guides. This is another thing that interests me a lot is I talked to a lot of hunters that have encounters, and you also hear a lot of hunters talk about, well, if these things were out there, I would have seen tracks. I would have ran across one by Now, you

guys were guides. Why do you think that hunters and guides and rangers can spend so much time in the wilderness and not encounter these things. It's an elusive preacher. Yeah, that's what it is. It's there. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it's not there. You know. It's like an animal. An animal, a bear can smell you what a mile two miles away. They don't need they don't need to be next to you. Yeah, and I don't think these things are I think these are the same

way. It's it's an animal and they know when you're there. Yeah, it's you know, walking through the woods bear hunting or deer hunt and not seeing anything. You know, they're aware, they've winded you, they've heard you something else. The blue jays are giving you away. Something is talking in the woods to let you know they're out there or you're there. Something

in the words. The woods have their own communications, and they have a whole different pattern and and you have to pay attention, live in the woods, pay attention to work in the woods to see these things, you know, And there are patterns in the woods. Things do certain things at certain times, certain reasons why, And these are patterns. They avoid you as much as you want to avoid them. Even though you're trying to look for

them, they're going to avoid you. And curio curiosity brings them around. Accidents will bring them. They've crossed a felt field, they cross the road. People say it's being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I say it's being in the right place at the right time. You know, what are some of the patterns that you've noticed that these things have. They're they're elusive. You can't get a clear picture supposedly, things like that.

That's a pattern, and there's reasons for that. You know, everybody says, you know he did with with the camera, with the picture, with the cameras and the pictures today, you should have a clear picture. Well when you see something like down the road, even if you're standing still, if you see something like that, your brain's not registering that. And now you're picking up the phone and you're trying to hold it and you're trying to

take a picture of this thing. You have to unlock your phone and you get it in there. You're trying to figure it all out and at the same time take a picture. It's you know, it just doesn't happen to get it one that a good clear picture in the right place at the right time, getting good trackways. I'm sitting here with a bunch of tracks on the table that we personally casted and never once came up with a really good

track way. Uh, October Mountain gave us, uh, you know, half a dozen tracks, two that we were castable, and one that shows really decent flexation in the toes. You know, it's not the perfect you know you buy at the museum. Look at this pretty foot I mean the cast we have at October Mountain is you know, I don't know if we can get it here is you know, you got the heel back here where am I at? He here shows up in the front up here, and then if you're looking at it, you could see the where am I?

You could see the toes, the flexation. They're actually going up a hill. I think the toes are flaking in. So I mean it's you know, it's a cast. You know, it's it doesn't do any justice. Uh Ever, from when you see them and you can see all you can see the tone was digging in and you can see the you know how it works, and there's clearly a heel that you don't get a clear cast. That track is fifteen inches long six inches wide, and it was a half

a dozen yep. But they were somewhere in the heavy grass this came. This came at a time in October Mountain where we were watching a potential bigfoot walking on with fliers. There's there're four or five fliers watching this bigfoot that's one hundred yards away. We went back the following day and we range finding, so we're looking at something now that we didn't know at the time was one hundred yards away in a fleer. So it's a red pixelated figure pacing

back and forth. And it was just pacing back and forth. So we go like ten fifteen feet, stop, go back, go out twenty feet, go back, go out thirty feet. And it did this all the way to about one hundred feet, is pacing back and forth, got off, it jumped down, headed to the tree line, and disappeared. That was it. That was it. Well, we think it was pacing. I think it was trying to figure out what we were doing over on the

other side. Yeah. I think generally when you're pacing, it's probably agitated. It's all of a sudden, what do I do? And there's this there over here? And I don't know exactly, maybe it was. If it was it was pacing, then then it was probably saying, oh man, what am I gonna do? I got caught out anywhere I go? Which way do I go? You know? I didn't know what to do. And there were about twelve to fifteen of us over on the other side,

and we were kind of spread out along the shoreline. So in the process and we're watching this thing, one of our buddies, Chuck, says, hey, do you smell that? And and so he pulls Eric aside, Dave McCulla, myself, we were all standing there and we could literally smell the first time we ever associated an odor with a potential bigfoot, and and it was it was your typical I had a mutt when when they asked me, had bears, beard, musky, wild animal? I don't know.

Maybe some I don't know, but too much farther than that. But it was something there that you never had there before, you know, and uh, you could definitely you saw it and you could smell it, yeah, you know. And there were too many people there that that that that saw it and smelled it. Yeah. We were literally all watching it and we're saying, hey, did anybody get any video? Because these players have videos, and it was like, you know, bluck fever, nobody's getting

video. One of us hit the video. We got like a couple of seconds of it at the end. It was like, yeah, it was nuts. Yep. Literally it happened. It happened. It just happens, you know, it happens that fast that you don't even think unfortunately at the time. But you brought up the smell and that's, you know, something that I've experienced myself, and you hear people describe it like you guys are saying kind of a wet musky smell. You know, people often say wet

dog. Yeah. I think that people are telling you things that are similar to what it is, but at the same time, it's different than those smells a little bit. Yep. Right, Yeah, what are your thoughts on that? Do you think it's just the way they smell? Do you think it's like an actual chemical release of some kind? It's very pot I mean, are you a hunter I used to be. I grew up in

an outdoors family, hunting and fishing. Well, if you bring in a wet a bear or a bear, a deer, or something like that, large game, even some of these smaller ones that you know, they're not running around showering, so they've got this really musky smell to them, right, I think I think when people get the uh. I used to have a dog that would run up to the farm and roll around in crap, horse crap and come back to my house. And he came back and he's

stunk. Right, I'm thinking, what if it was kyokes that ran around after a kill and it's in this elk carcass or a deer or black whatever it is. It's dead and it's rotting, and these things are rubbing in it, you know, like a impact some of these submissive dogs will do. And they just rubbed it. And so now you've got this smell that you can't associate with, and it's you know, maybe that's what people smell as well. I mean, it's a potential way to get that rotting,

fleshy odor out there. But you wanted to know whether or not why why the oder was there? Or do they omit the odor? Is that what you were asking? Yeah, just your thoughts. Do you think it's just their natural smell all the time, or do you think it's like a pheromone release of some kind that we're smelling. It could be it could be that it's possible, sort of like like a skunk. Ye scare it. Now

it's trying to hide itself or get away. You know, it gets all of a sudden, there's a dozen people one hundred yards away from it. It's you know, it's kind of freaking out. It's stressing, it's emitting, you know, it's probably sweating. It could be very, very possible that that's the reaction. It could be like a fight or flight reaction to this thing, and it emits without a doubt. So yeah, it's all

good theory. It's all possible. I figure, if it can happen in the in the natural world, there's no reason why he can't do it or she, you know, it can't do it. So let's talk about some of your encounters, some of your experiences. What what are some of the more memorable events you've had while outsquatching? Well, those are pretty good. There's all kinds of knocks and things like that. Did you get some of the photos I had sent you on? Yeah, yeah, all right.

I don't know if you can link them in later, but if you can. The tree twists, that was a very very unique experience. That weekend we had gone out, another group of us had gone out and experienced. We went to a place called Sanderson Brook Falls up in Blamford, mass and it's just up the road for me, and we were there with about twelve people. Yeah, yeah, we were up there with about twelve people.

And yeah, we walked up to where we came to a spot where it was even with the waterfall, but we were on a dirt road and it was like an opening. If people are familiar with the area. It's just past the Sanders Brook Falls trail where it breaks off. We went up past around it and there's a clearing up ahead, so we had a great shot of the waterfalls behind us. And we're sitting on a dirt road. So there's a waterfall on a cliff on one side and a cliff on the other

side. So we're literally in this little road that's cut out of the cliff. We're sitting on this steep embankments either side, just kind of setting where we were at. And his back is to the guardrail where we're looking over at the waterfall, so there's nothing behind him except the steep hill. That's it. So that's where we made it to. That's as far as you made it. There was five of us at this actually, well, there was five of us sitting there, and then there was some good friends.

Kevin Romero, he was up further. Kevin Romero, he was up doing and his wife. Yeah, they were recording. He's fantastic. Well, he was fantastic doing some recording. Every time he went out, he was recording. He's hours and hours and hours of this stuff. Less Kevin, But anyways, he was there and he was probably fifty yards up from us or so, and he was recording everything that was happening. We're sitting there,

we're just you know, I was probably midnight. Yeah, there being quiet, you know, there's casual conversation, you know, sitting there, booming, wrapping, talking, and then all of a sudden, this this thing. I was standing with my with my back to to the ravine, and this thing sounded I don't know, it sounded like a rock, but this thing was a month. If it was a rock, it would have been big, five hundred pounds if not more. It sounded like it hit

the side of the ravine right underneath me. But it was there was nothing there. Yeah, there was no rock. It didn't roll down the hill, there were no leaves moved, there was nothing, and so so everybody was like, what was that? We believe No, it's in for sund And it couldn't have been like five minutes after that. Four minutes after that. Yeah, there was a rock coming down the mountain right at us. And it sounded like a good side of rock. And as it's rolling too

was on the ground and he's trying to get up. He's going, what the hell's going on? It went, you know, he's understanding, dude. I thought this was a freaking boulder coming down through the mountain. This is a steep boulder or a steep mountain, and this is a rock that was rolling down on the rock for a couple of dollars. I'm on my plot with my elbows on the fire road and I'm sketching my feet up to try to get up until I can get out of the way. That's how

serious this is. This is actually happening, and I think, and this is coming down the woods and then it just stopped. It just stopped. It was crazy. I couldn't get up fast enough to get out of the way. I couldn't get up fast enough. It was pretty wild. But I don't know what the sound that came from behind us. It had to be in for some because there was nothing there. Yeah, but it hit so hard it felt like something hit right behind you and there was there was

and there were three other people there. Yeah, I'm not gonna put out their name. It was crazy. They know who they are that they were there, Bobby Jean, you know, we they you know they were there. The people that were there knew what happened. And there was nothing there, you know. I mean if anything were to hit there, it would have absolutely rolled down the hill because the angle was just incredible. The thing that landed behind Eric the first rock and it wasn't anything. It hit the

rock. It hit the ground with such a vengeance and it shook the ground. Yeah, you felt it. So we felt it. You know, we looked, we didn't see anything. And my wife and I what started this was Uh so we had this experience. Everything kind of quieted down. Kevin says, I've got it on recorder, got it on the recorder. We go back. There was some guys who I call it Team Canada with

us. Uh. It was also a paranormal investigator out of Canada. Uh yeah, and without permission, I'm not going to drop all those names, but Anyways, they were up there and they were having a good time. Uh they had they experienced some wild silence as well, and they were a little different location, but it was a fairly large group, so there's a

lot of activity. I brought my wife up there the following day and we went We went up to the same area where we had this potential rock rolling down the hill and where where this other rock had hit the wall behind Eric. It was literally it's a wall. I mean, I mean, it's a steep just back to a waterface. It's crazy. It would have left them. It should have left a mark and or rolled down the hill,

and it did neither. It was just flat grass growing. Nothing was moved, not old leaves, know nothing, but it was enough to shape the ground. It was it was and all of us were like, what this actually happened? And we sat back, wanted another five minutes and the Hada's boulder rolling down the hill. It was stupid. I don't know what it was happening, but yeah, that's that's that's gospel. That's the investigation part.

So I go back with my wife Kim the next day and she's she she's definitely one air and can't here out of the other, and it's some of it's selected, some of it, but but most of us. She's she is, she's definitely one air, and so she couldn't hear. We're walking along and I'm telling her, Kim, do you hear this way? She couldn't hear it. But there was, you know, this what I believe. We were being escorted out of the woods, and there was a

tree shaken. Again. It didn't sound like big trees like back in New York. This was saplings things like that. And this is a really really steep rugged area. It's stone and it's steep. It's it's sixty seventy degree you know, inclines. This is in areas. This is really steep area. So it's not something you're gonna walk around and do it. But this thing, whatever was escorted us out probably a good or I guess it's maybe a mile in so three quarters of a mile. We felt like we were

escorted out. I did. So I'm just tapping my wife on the short Hey, let's get out, let's get out. We're walking out, and you could hear it shadowing us up in the woods, making noise like aggravation, not really vocal, just rustling through the woods, just kind of off on the side following us, and we get back to what we call the Singing Bridge. There was a wire bridge kind of thing. We crossed the bridge, get over to the where a parking lot was, and that was

the extent of it. We got in the car and left, called Eric said, hey, we got to go back. We got to go back. And so we go back and go up into the areas. We wanted to find out first where was the rock that fell or was it a tree that fell. There's gotta be some evidence. So we went up in the daylight the following day and and couldn't find anything that gave us any resemblance of this large rock rolling down the hill. And dude, I'm telling you,

there was this rock coming down the hill. But it never hit it never showed up. It never We didn't find a rock, you know, stopped against the tree, you know, because we said, well, it's a sudden stop. Maybe it hit a tree, you know, and there was that We didn't. We didn't. We scoured the hillside. We could not

find anything in what we thought the area. We couldn't find anything. And and then we got into one area where it's trashed and broken up, and we found this one, uh particular stick that we actually cut out of the woods and took it back with us. And that's that full twist stick board. That's what we had grabbed. That's clear twisted. I ye, there's no that wasn't when that did not happen naturally. No, And you know, we're there's there's a lot to be said about tree structures and things like

that. I don't know enough about it to pick sides and say yay or nay. All I could tell you is that, in particular, with the context of the story, was pretty remarkable for me to get that kind of physical evidence. There was no tracks. There was you know, there was places where it was probably you know, stuffed up, but there was no

tracks. You couldn't know. It was like it was like uh, walks, moss taking off of the rock, slide, you know, foot slide on the rock loss, nothing you could catch stuff that kept us excited. You know, oh yeah, look at this over here. You know what the heck gets up there? You know you can see fresh tracks ripping the moss off the rock. You know, it's sort of like, you know, I wanted to watch your deer walk through the woods and say the same thing. So when we got to that, that was I just took out

the this I have a little survival, which that was pretty cool. Cut that bad boy it out and that's why I have it today. Yeah, that that was a very unique you know, things like tree twists breaks, things like that. There's there's a lot of reasons. And I can show you hundreds hundreds of birch trees that are bent over and nodded. Now they've been that way for two years. How do you get that way? There was a thirty inch snow storm, three feet of snow. We had two

inches three inches of rain. H it froze those trees were they just bent right over and they crew that way till spring. Where come springtime, all those branches that were bent over are like this giant dreadlock. They're just woven into each other. So they literally have pulled and holding themselves down. Uh, just just because of that sheer weight. It's literally bent the trees and

they're growing and they're going on three years now almost. And and some of the people that have this issue with with birch in particular, or it's prevag just because it's it's soft or something. Yeah, stretches for sunlight. Blah blah blah. There's a whole other naturalist story I can go into. But it bends over these branches, get all mounted up, and next thing you know, you've got this drove five acres big of all these weird bent trees.

And it's like, twenty years from now, what is that going to look like? You know that's going to be incredible. So you get some weird stuff. So that's what that's. Uh, that was one of the pretty remarkable ones because it included my wife as well. I wanted to ask you. In your original email you mentioned a possible juvenile encounter where you casted some tracks. Could you talk about that a bit? Yeah, I believe I gave you a shot of that as well. That's the one with the

ruler. I don't know which ones I sent you. The juvenile that's that's another good story. Why don't you tell that was a great story? Actually? Yeah, it was a labor day weekend, what was it d eighteen twenty and the back of that day it was twenty two, twenty two, Labor Day weekend four and all it did was rain. We had rain for like four days five days, and we just said, come on, let's

let's take a ride. We were gonna go fishing. So we went to a couple of spots and for some reason we didn't we didn't stop there. Somebody was there or whatever. So we said, you know what, we're already halfway there. Let's go over to a place that we go and we research all the time. That's where I had a class A at where I had a visual at it. So we turned around and we said, yea, all right, So we drove over there. This is in Savoy State

fronts up in western mass so we stayed for us. We ended up driving over there and it was raining. We drive into the woods, we can get up and parked the car and we we get out. We're going across the stream and we start going up around the first curve and we can start hearing. It sounded like like little knocks or tapping happened, and uh so we just kind of looked at each other and we said all right. But we were we were saying, okay, maybe it was the rain, maybe

it was this, maybe it was that. So we went up a little further, got up to about the next curve, and then we heard things getting tossed at us now and we're saying, okay, now, wait a minute. You know, the rain's not going to be tossing nothing at us.

So we just kind of looked at each other and we're trying to we're trying to videotape this at the same time, and it's raining, and there's if you've ever video taped off your phone in the rain, you know what you know, So we could tell you they were knocks and naps and this and that, but it sounded like rain now, so you know, we

had to scrap that whole thing. But we kept going and we were headed up to the to the next curve, and next thing you know, the knocks got a little bit got a little bit more, and things were getting thrown closer at us, and there was a wolf and then there was a wolf. So we we we says, all right, we got let's go back here. We're gonna we're going to think about this for a second. Back to the truck. So we went all the way back to the truck.

So we get back there and we're sitting there and we're trying to discuss this, discuss it with each other and say, okay, what just happened. You know. We said, all right, he says, let's go back. We'll go back again, and I kept telling him there's a mud puddle at the top, so if there's anything, we'll hit the mud puddle. So we get walking back out there again. We get up to the

second curve and next thing, you know, the same thing happens. We start getting things tossed at us. Then we hear a couple of more wolves out. Then we said, okay, we're getting out of here. So we leave, getting the truck. We take off and we we go to this diner over in Comington. We're sitting there having having some neat We're talking about it. We're saying, oh man, we gotta go back. I said, I gotta get to the top, I says. I says, if anything's there, that's where I had my visual, you know, and

I had it in the rain. So we says all right, So we talked ourselves into a lot of courage to go back for a third time. So we drive all the way back, park the car, we get out and we take off and we just we're just walking now. We're saying, no matter what, we just keep going. So nothing happened. Nothing happened all the way up. We get all the way to the top, and that's we come around. Tim comes around behind me and all and he's looking

at the mud puddle and there they are. There's two footprints right there, and they were fresh footprints. This is a puddle that's about four and a half feet long, three feet four feet wide, full of water. Puddle full of water rain in four days now and right where these training as we were doing it, right where the footprints are. If you've ever stepped in the mud and you moved your foot, it's moist, but there's no water in it. It was fairly dry. So they we were we must have

spooked them out of there, that's what we believe. But it was raining. So we turned around and we said, well, we said we got to preserve these. So he grabbed some birch bark and we covered them with birch bark. Birch, you know, kept it off. Maybe you know, it's the best thing. You use what you got. Yeah, so we a tripod over it so an animal wouldn't walk through it. But you know, so then we took off and we said we'll come back in the morning. So we got out. We were in the woods by six o'clock.

We said, maybe if they're juveniles, maybe they're they'll sleepily and we can get up there and get this thing. So we get all our stuff, we take off. We get up there, and we had no problem. We were quiet to boogie. We just got as fast as we could get up there. So we take all of the birch bark off and the prints are still there. Oh, They're unbelievable. Just a tad bit of water had seep back into the hills. So we turned around. I'm mixing

up the plaster Paris and we put it in there. We get it all, We get it all put out, letting it harden. And I said, come on, we'll take a walk over to where I had my class A, which is maybe fifty sixty yards from where we were. Yeahow, So we walked into. Yeah, there was a dozen people to God as well, well most of it. We walked in and I stood on the exact same rock that I saw my big foot at and we're standing and it

is dead quiet, and it's been about about ten minutes now. We were just talking real soft between us, and then all of a sudden, about eighty yards away out in front of us, the herd, a solid would knock Louisville slogan. It was one and done and seconds later not the love test. We had been here later there had to be four or four such different things stood up in front of us and just started moving. No noise, no grunts, no browls. They just stood up and started moving.

Yeah, there was no vocal, no vobilizing, but you could there was. They got up and they moved. You could feel that, you know, you could hear the rustling under the trees. We're in this area here. Uh, there was a lot of uh, a lot of like maple trees and green stripe maple. So there's a lot of shrub trees. So you really can't see it thick so you can't see off into the woods. It's it's thick woods, and especially in June. Nothing we are out,

but uh, you could hear it, You could certainly hear it. And it was multiple directions, multiple things were moving. So and with this is just moment. You know. The day after we had just been chased out of the woods twice, you know, the third time was the charm. We went up to the top we got you know, we were able to put the the birch bark on the tracks. We came back the second day we were able to cast it. We're sitting there at his same location.

I didn't make that day. I was fishing. I was I was guiding a fishing trip that day, so I didn't have that. I wasn't there to share that classics experience. But we went back the following day. No, we uh we we let's go back to the juvenile track. All right, we're we're we're standing on the rock. We heard that would not right. Three or four things stood up in front of us and just started moving moving. Wow. And Tim goes, let's get out of here. He

says, let's grab our stuff and go. He says it could be bears. And I was like, well wait a minute. I said, I want to see. I said, maybe there's something there. It was the reverse of this the New York story. He wanted to, you know, because I had an experience there. And I was like, oh, come on, I'm thinking Sowwich cougs. You don't want to mess around. But we turned around and we took off. We went over and we I dug the out the asked out of the little mud that suck, wrapped them up

and plastic put them in my backpack and down the mountain we went. And now we have a couple of cats for it. But that was an experience that was was that was crazy because we got we got played with the first time. The second time in they got a little agitated and they booted us out, meaning the rocks came down, the jubil wolfs became more aggressive. And the thing when we finally got in there tapping, when we finally got in there to do that, we must have took them off by surprise.

They probably never thought we were going to come back right we did, and that I think that's how we got them. They were probably sleeping up in this undercover of thick brush and when they got that wood knock boom, Yeah, that they did whatever was got up and started leaving. What what was crazy is I was I was thinking about letting out of Howl, and I was glad I didn't because that would knock was it was crystal clear. There was no events or buts about it. You're in the middle of the woods.

There's nothing else out there that's going to do that, and all and after you heard it, they just it just got up and started. It was crazy. So it wasn't far. They were within within one hundred yards, well within one hundred yards probably fifty away, but the undergrowth is stick so you can't run see, you know, there was you couldn't see anything really, yeah, you couldn't see anything. And it was uh, there wasn't like brush moving or anything like that. It was just like it's low

rain and four days everything was wet. Everything was quiet, you know. So yeah, I mean you couldn't even hear them walking, yeah, you know, because that's how quiet it was. Everything was so in this mountain in particular, this area has a history of bigfoot. And that's where I saw my class A. Couldn't have been forty five yards away from from where that from where that incident happened. Yeah, that's how that's That was the three two thousands, sixteen on that one and I was with them, and

I was with fifteen people when that happened. Two of us saw it. Other people had multiple they heard whistles, they heard knocks, but they were multiple people that had things happen. But two of us saw that. Yeah, that's the thing that was in the exact same place that we got these juvenile of ones from. Yeah, so that's how we got the juvenile ones. That was during labor day. I want you to I want you to talk about your sighting, but real fast, I wanted to ask you guys

this. Do you think they're self aware whenever it comes to their tracks? Do you think they try to hide their tracks? You know, I've often wondered that myself, because a lot of times you can find one, you may find two. But I don't know, I think it just it is what it is. You happen to get lucky. Yeah, you know, I don't want to go into that wou thing where they go into another thing. But you know the orbs, you know sometimes people association. Yeah they

see them in the winter time, but they only got two tracks. I'll come you know what happened to it? And we're we're the same, you know, we've we've had a number of times where we can go and cast and I've got you know, half a dozen casts in front of me. Uh, but I've never had a trackway, no, really good. I've had you know, half a dozen which was the best that we had was a half a dozen potential tracks, and and that was the extent the northeast

top. But you know you're gonna maybe get a trackway along a riverbed maybe or through a farm if you're lucky, and if that's if the farmer even tells you about it, right, you know, you know, you soft substrate stuff like that. And we've never got to gravel because everything is hard on here. But not that, not that we don't have trackways, because

but to have really good ones you get on the tine. For us, we've got track We've got tracks here with deohits you know that's two three inches deep right there, you know, yeah, I mean the one that I've got, the one that I saw was seventh. The footprint was seventeen and a half by nine and a half by four inches. Yep. I mean that's a big print. That's that's a big print. Yeah, really, that's a big print. But we you know, we went back that was

it the following day and took those casts. And so we walked up and mind you this this is you know, the juvenile one we were we shared both of us this one here. I wasn't there. I was fishing on this particular story. So I wasn't here. So we went back the following day. Now, the following day, we go up and he's bringing me into the area where they see it, and we've got our cameras on and we're doing all of our thing. We got a recorder going, we got

everything. We you know, we're trying to do our due diligence and we're walking around. It's like, dude, I was right here and it was just right over there. And so he's got we got the range finder and he's just go over there. I'll tell you when to stop. So we did the whole thing of you know, measuring and the tape measure and the whole deal, and it turned out to be I was forty yards away from him. So he's sitting there with the range finder saying, okay, stop

and we turned out to be forty yards. And then I put my hand up, sad, how high? And you said, keep going, keep going, And I had to take my hat, put it on a stick and go. And it went to about nine feet yep, nine feet. So with the cast that he has and you know, almost four was deep in the grounds, as with the width of that thing was as wide as a piece of plot you know, another day it was raining, so the ground was soft. It was a pine soft humans kind of top soil called

duff. So you know, an eight hundred pound one thousand pounds or nine hundred pound creature would certainly put in a four inch track. And you know, we've got the initial the landing, so it's a heel strike toe push off, and then i'm a following step which was seven feet away away. You actually see where it landed on the ball, and it's got the push off. You know, there were toe marks on the roof, but they didn't come out because they were on the roof. But you've got the push

off and we cast it both. Even though you couldn't tell it was a foot, you could see the depression was the same weight that happened seven feet away that made this. So it's basically you know, you're running on your toe at that point on the balls to your feet on the front half and it was a push off, so it was a heel step then a push off and it landed on the foot. So yeah, something the same weight

made those steps. And how ironic that the day before he just saw a nine foot bigfoot, so you know, and two people saw it, and there was a dozen or so they had lesser I say lesser meaning they had books, had not whistle things like that all during this experience. They just never had the opportunity to see it. Now, this experience was also kind of a GoPro And of course Bigfoot wasn't on the on the video because the

guy standing there had a tree right in the middle. And so what you see is Eric and another guy almost simultaneously forty fifty yards away from each other. They're not if you're watching a video, they're not looking at each other. There. You're in the woods. You're walking to where you're watching, where your feet are going. We were on two different angles. I couldn't see him. I mean I was too far to the left and he was too far to my right. Up behind it. Yeah, probably sixty yards

apart. And all of a sudden, you know, you can see Eric in an orange raypo It's just he's kind of like this, and then he's like that, and and that was it. That was it. So yeah, I'll of you explained that. Yuh, Well, what else did you want to know? Well, I just wanted to hear about the side in itself, Like all these people there. I assume it was on an actual big foot outing. Yes, it was. It was on a big foot out. Why were you there and how did it all go down? Well,

we were there because it's an act. It's always been an active place and one of the gentlemen that work was with us had an experience there back when he was twenty twenty one when he was a ranger, and the history of the area hunters, it goes back to there's always been a eighteen hundreds. That was one of the restons. That was one of the reasons why we went there. It actually turned out to be a last resort because we were doing an expedition. But it was the first place we went was raining

too hard. I mean it was raining, and then it kind of slowed down, so he said, well, let's go try one more place. So we did, and there was enough room for everybody to pull off the road and park. So that's how we got in there. And then we

had walked in and we had walked up to this balanced rock. There's two guys that always liked the lag behind because they liked to watch the group, to see if the group is being watched, and there was a gentleman and his son were up in front who had a grow pro, and there was ten of us in the middle somewhere like that. We're walking along and we got up to balance rock and all of a sudden, right where the mud puddle is, we stopped and the two gentlemen that were behind us came up

and says, hey, we just got whistles back here. Couldn't have been a couple of seconds later the the guy up in the front sent his kid back and they said, hey, hey, we've got knocks. So now we've got whistles behind us, knock in front of us. And we walked into the woods. So we kind of walked in. Fifteen people walked in and kind of they kind of spread out. So we're on a forty five were we went in about twenty thirty yards and I was standing on that rock

and it was still it was still raining. There's still you know, the rain was coming off the leaves and everything else, and everything was still quiet. But the guy was in there and he was he was had to go pro and he was videotaping everything, and he kind of walked off to my after he was standing with me. He kind of walked off to the left, and I'm standing there and I and I'm the hunter. So I says, jeez, if there was something out there, how am I going to

see it? I said, well, I'm going to squat. I'm going to bend over and see if I can see any legs or any movement. And I'm in an orange rain jacket. Everybody else is in dark green or blue. So I stuck out and so I kind of bent down. I squatted him, and I said, geez, I said, what is that? I said, what is it? What's that doing there? It's black,

It's big black thing. So I kind of I kind of stood up, and I'm looking at it and I and I tilted myself like I was trying to peek around the tree, and so this thing bent over and it was doing it midicked me and I went what. So then I stood up and went it stood up. That's when I realized it was a big There were to be a big foot. What else was going to do that? So I turned around and I just started running towards it, and at the same time, on pointing, the gentleman that that was to my right saw

it. At the same time he saw the legs I saw from the waist uff and there was a tree laying down and that's why he only saw the legs. I was on the other side, higher up, and I could see the upper half. But we ran into the into this go pro frame at the same time, two different angles. It was crazy, and and then we ran through it and we were like, after we got there, we went, what did we just do? You know? You know,

why did we even run up there? It was crazy. But everybody else came in and and they're looking around, and we're looking for things, you know, we couldn't see anything. The two gentlemen that were behind us came down the road, which in the direction that this thing ran out, and they never saw. And they couldn't have been fifty sixty yards away, and it fet the same road. Yeah, nine feet tall, four feet wide at least, and they never saw. It was crazy. And we got

two prints out of that the following day. The following day, we showed up. Yeah, this is where I showed up. Yeah, I just attend. You got to come with me. I said, you got to come in there. So we turned around and we go in and I take them right to the spot and I says this is where. This is where I was. This is where it was. He went around the tree and goes, oh, man, look at this, just as clear as a bell. There was a foot track. It was right there. There was

no missing Yeah. So we're looking at it, and well, we called our buddy and we said, hey, he's on his way to a Red Sox game. He's going down the highway and we said you got to come out here because you know he had casting materials. And he says no. He says uh. He says, are you kidding me? And I says, dude, you got to come out here. I'm telling you, it's right there. He goes, are you sure? He says, I'm on my way to a game. I says, I'm telling you it's here.

I'll pay for your gas. Just turn around. There was another time the tracks got the pace. Yeah, So he came out. So we met him out at the dirt road. And when we were we get in the truck and we're driving in. We had to go into town to buy Class class so we could cast, so we waited for him to show up. So as we drove in, well, Tim, I'm in the front. Tim is in behind me on the passenger side, and that's we're driving in up on the hill. This this this yell, roar New York. It

came out of nowhere. And I mean he was mad. It was definitely a warning. It was mad. It was like insanely it was just another insane scream yell. It was carrying a hell out of here. Or they were learning them that we were coming back. Yeah, you know, and here we are going back. So we drive in and we get out there and there, and we come around the corner. We took we I think

we put something over that one too, and we took that off. We did, and we turned around and there's the print and the guy goes, oh, man, look at this. Yep. So he had dental stone, and dental stone is fantastic. I mean, the stuff it hardens. You really don't have to worry about it break. You know, dentists you use it for your teeth. Good stuff. So we did that up, poured it in and we measured it out. It was seventeen and a half inches long, nine and a half inches wide by four inches deep. It

was crazy. And seven feet away was the second step. But that's where the ball and the toe were and you could see where the toe hit the root and literally took the took the bark off through skimmed it. But you can't you know, you can't. I couldn't cast. Yeah, you can't cast that. It just doesn't show up. I tried, but you could see it. It didn't cast. It was in the group, actually is. But that's that's how I saw mine. I Teeter tottered with it forty

yards away. That validation, you know, of seeing something and then having the track there. I mean, obviously we have no way of knowing that, well did that individual leave that track, but putting those different paces together, yeah, the context of the entire situation, I mean, you want an amazing encounter. Yeah, and the witnesses it was, it was. It was unbelievable. I I, for one, I was the biggest skeptic

going because I always tore it apart. You know, well, it could be this, it could be that, you know, mother nature does this. But when it stood there and it Teeter tottered with me, Yeah, that changed my whole whole outlook on everything, even even after New York, seeing it changes everything. Yeah, you're definitely a believer after that. Yep, you can't on you can't have an experience and once you once you cross the line and you say, oh boy, we're done. You know.

We we do the library shows, we do different different events and stuff, and you know, people think, oh, yeah, it's that bigfoot. Guys are nuts. So, Tim, have you had a sighting? Yeah? Mine was. I have had two. Uh. One I was with my wife and the the other one I was in October Mountain with another group on a different expedition, and that was the Pacing Bigfoot. That was the Pacing Bigfoot. So that was a unique one, more so because it was

in the fleer. But going with the context of the story and the cast that we've got, you know, we believe that to be a big foot as well with the odor the smell. Well we have in that flear back that night and we plugged it in to the laptop and everybody in a couple of seconds of recording. It was only a few seconds, but you literally could watch it walk. You could see it walk to the left and you

could see the arm did the arm movement. You could see that. But it was two pixelated and then when the guy went to play it back the second time, it was just a red blob. It was two p's just the one shot. They say it was anything, but you know, to a dozen guys that were sitting there, right, so you know exactly what we were looking at. You know, we saw everybody there saw it. They know what they will watch, they get off the log, the whole deal. So so we saw one there and then my wife and I were

we do what we call a squatch ride. And you know, we're out here in the country. There's not a whole bunch to do. So we get in the car, go get a coffee, and we'll go off and we'll go driving around the back roads and we call it a squatch. Right, so we're going along. We go to this area called Cobble mounta outon

reservoir, which is our backyard. You know, I'm a ranger. We have thirteen hundred acre property we manage which abuts Cobble Mount, which is probably you know, I don't know, six or seven thousand, which goes into another, you know, the state forest. And there's unteen thousand acres back there. So it's just woods, you know, a random dotted road or you know, a farm or something here or there. But there's nothing back

there, and it's had and it has a rich history. So we go, we go on our squats ride and we get down to the lake and and it's in June, uh, campus and there was camps. It was July actually, uh. And we're this is in the afternoon, and there's this giant white thing across the lake. And it was too big to be anything other, you know, it wasn't It wasn't like a sign on the tree there. We go through here every other night at two, three times a week anyway, all right, so we know what's out there, we

know what's around the lake. There's no nothing. It's shoreline, it's natural, it's wooded and shoreline. In some places it's rocky. This happened to be a rocky area and what we believe. We stopped the car. We were watching this. I say, hey, Ken, look at this thing. It's this white thing out there, you know with that was maybe you know, maybe a sample crew or something taking water samples out of the reservoir. It was that big. But you know that distance, I don't know

how far away is maybe half mile across the lake. But but you could see this white blob definitely stood out in a summer landscape, which was water, shoreline and green. That was it. It was mountains and this giant white thing stood out and then all of a sudden it moved and it went down to Look what it looked like is it went down to the water, stood up, and then headed back to the woods. So it was it was like it was probably standing there. Maybe we saw our car. It

was checking us out, potentially, because it was just whatever. It was just kind of facing one direction, bend down for probably I don't know, fifteen twenty seconds, got back up, turned around and walked into the woods, and it was gone. And now that was the extent of the you know that, so I'm going to I think that was I can't think of anything else it would be. Even if it was a moose. You know, a moose would have had to turn broadside and you would have seen a

broadside moose. This didn't turn broadside. This was just huge, big, It was a big white thing, and it just kind of you could see it kind of just this same thing just walk walk away. That was it. So, you know, I was thinking, well, maybe it was a deer or a beer, but you know, they're not going to be

that cognitive to make themselves look slim and turn around. They're going to go down the lake, take a drink, turn around, and that's going to require them going broadside to my position to go and do a one eighty to head back into the woods right. And there was no moose, there was no deer, there was no bear, there was nothing. It turned around and walked into the woods. And my wife got to see and she goes,

holy crap. So she got to see something that we've been chasing around for years and she can't explain that in the way and now, so you know, it was a far away it was a you know, it was a different kind of experience. But you know, I live here at a lake. I can see across the lake from where well now it's dark, but you know I have a clear shot across the lake and I could tell

you, I could tell you when people are walking across the lake. This thing was a big white thing across the lake, maybe a half mile away, and it was just too big to be to be anything else, to be honest. And we have a history in western mass of a number of white bigfoot be it at the Quabbin at the Mount Toime Reservation area up in the Vermont. You know, there's so there's a history of of either multiple bigfoot that are white or gray in different areas, which is very possible.

You know, as the age, they probably turn you know, grayish or white like like any other or some of the other animals that you do it, So it's possible. I was going to ask what you think about the white coloration. Do you think that's just a natural coloration or an age thing. I'm going to go with an age thing potentially, because I'm just taking it out of the natural realm. You know, most of the things, unless they are an albino, there's nothing. It's a pigment thing. You've

got albino deer. Yeah, so say you can't have an albino bigfoot. Yep, it could be an albino bigfoot, but I'm more have to think it's an old bigfoot. These things got to grow up. I have a ten inch juvenile track in front of me, and I have an eighteen inch track over here, So they have to grow up, you know. Oh for sure, they're not. They're not born nine feet tall. No, they're not. No. No, how about you man, have you had an experience? Yeah? Yeah, I have I had over the course of

about a decade. I had I had a sighting in two thousand and two and a possible I can encounter that same night, And then I had another sighting a few years after that, one of what I would consider a juvenile yep, and a few you know, glimpses of something. You know that I can't confirm butt because you know, again because of the context and the circumstances that I don't know what else it could have been yet, right, I can tell you what it was, Yeah, exactly. That's good to

you. Yeah, the same things that happened to us happened to you. Oh absolutely absolutely. I mean, you know, one of the most profound things happened literally the night before I had my sighting. We were at a location that I would end up researching over the years on a regular basis. Once I had my sighting, I was pretty much hooked at that point, and it was like, Okay, well I know that they're here because I saw one here. So I just kind of focused all my research efforts there.

I had a research partner that lived in the area and everything. It wasn't too far from where I lived, so it was a matter of convenience, and I thought it was much better to go at it that way than to try to just blindly go to different locations and hope for the best over

a weekend camp out. But we were in this location and we were hearing things all around us, and it's kind of like this dead end in this public hunting area, and we had the cars parked right there, and we were surrounded by trees on all sides, and to our backs was a and it was nighttime. It was pretty dark, but you know, there was some moonlight and stuff, and we heard splashing in the creek behind us.

Now, this creek at that point in time, you know, depending on the rain levels and all that, it might get a couple feet deep in that area, but usually it's just a few inches deep. I had never seen any fish in this creek. Yeah, yeah, So the splashing was kind of interesting, so we started it just kept on happening, and at some point, for whatever reason, somebody happened to look up and see a

rock fly overhead and then heard the splash in the creek behind us. So we all started looking up and we're seeing these rocks come out of the tree line and go over our heads. And into the creek behind us. Wow. Well at this point, you know, I did not gonna have a sighting the next night. And I, you know, much like others, like yourselves, very skeptical, you know, like, Okay, what's going on? What can this be? You know, there's nothing out here.

Yeah, there's nothing out here that can throw rocks other than people. So I know we're going out. And then I started thinking, well, how are they throwing them through the trees in the dark without hitting the trees, because I knew if I tried to throw a rock in the woods, I'm

just gonna hit trees. And I'm talking to my buddy and we're leaned up against this car, up on the side of the car hood and this rock about the size of a marble, hits the hood of the car and due to the trajectory, bounces off the hood and hits me in the stomach and lands back on the hood of the car. And I'm just looking down at it, and I look over at him, and I'm looking at the woods,

and I don't hear anything in the woods. But now I know, like this is this something's throwing rocks like this was for real, and that just blew my mind. So at that point in time, I still wasn't sure if Bigfoot was real, but I was certain that there was something out there throwing rocks exactly. Yeah. I wanted to ask you, Tom, because my listeners would hang me up by my heels if I didn't. You're

a ranger. Yeah, Do you get any flak for it? Is there any sort of commands You've been told not to let anybody know that these things are out there? What's the cover up going on? No? No, are you kidding meat. Everybody knows I'm a ranger around here and I do library events, we do other events, and I tell them I'm a ranger. You know I had, and it goes along with telling you about the

bear reports. I've been a ranger for fifteen years. I've been in the woods working every day for fifteen years, and I have bear you know, they come into camp, so it's there. It's just one of those things. Now I don't even today. I have a very clean camp, So today the bear encounters are a lot less. When I had first started, I was taken over for a guy that the bears used to come in all

the time, and so I'd have encounters four or five different bears. I literally open up a dumpster and have a bear sleeping in a dumpster, you know, taking pictures like that. So my scariest bear encounter was in Chesterfield, Mass I was a ranger and I'm on a mountain bike. Actually I'm going down a dirt road, and the dirt road transitions to stone to gravel

like and there was a sound difference. Now at the same time this transition from dirt road to gravel happened, it looked to me as if there was a trash bag that had blown off a table, a picnic table in the woods. Looked like it had blown off the table. And the moment later, it's standing in front of me, literally standing in front of me on two legs, like, holy crap. And there was a bear in front of me, and I could see by looking at it it was a teenager.

It was kind of long, lanky, skinny, and he was just as freaked out as I was. And I literally I skidd it to a stop, grabbed my bike, fronded up. Hey bear, get out of the air. Bear, And I'm screaming at him and he's freaking out, and we both go in two different directions and that was literally feet apart. And I came back to the house. My wife is garden and she's doing the flowers out front, and I said, came to the bear, come by, And I actually beat the bear because he was I beat the bear.

I came back to see him crossing the road. He was actually crossing into our yard and the bed she had seen the bear. So I actually beat the bear back on my mouth bike. So it was pretty funny. But that was the closest. And like I said, we've always they've always ran, They've never stuck around. They don't argue, why don't want to be around you? You know, they go. So I haven't had you know, yeah, bears attack things like that. I've never experienced anything like

that. I have been very fortunate. And that's just that, it's so the bears. Yeah, the whole bear thing is a you know, it kind of brings you back to the New York thing. Why was that creature out there or whatever it was yelling and screaming for ten to fifteen minutes, literally ten fifteen minutes at the top of the Younges whatever the hell it is doing screaming at us, you know, And and so it was. It

was hard to associate. Well, was it a bear? Well, you know, every bear I've ever ran across just kind of puffed its mouth and soft bluff, charged me a little bit and run like out, And that was the extent of it. So it kind of became a little comfortable maybe when I saw them. And you know, you still do the big yell, and nine out of ten times you know they snowy, they don't, You're gone. You know, if they win you, they're gone. And

same with the most of the other animals. I think the more experienced people have with wildlife, the more impressive some of these possible bigfoot encounters are. Because I run across a lot of people where I'll tell them a story. For instance, you know eye shine. You know a lot of bigfooters see eye shine, and people will you know, well, if all you saw was eye shine, why why do you even think it was a big foot? And I try to explain to them, deer, don't stand there and

watch you for thirty minutes. You know, animals typically hal ass nine out of ten, they absolutely do. I appreciate you coming on here and sharing some of your experiences with me. How can people reach you if they want to reach the fabulous Vogel Brothers. There you go. Go to Thevogo Brothers page on Facebook, the Logo Brothers. If you check us out there, like us, say something nice, and then it's you know, wild Guide one at yahoo dot com, Wild Guide to at yahoo dot com, but

it's the Volga Brothers. Sounds good, excellent. Thanks for having us, Sig