Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
These guys are your favorites, so like say subscribe and raid it five star me grates on us today.
And listening watching lim always keep its watching. And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bubo Fay.
Hello Cliff, Hello Bobo. How you doing Man?
Good? Good? How's going with you?
It's going right. You think it's December to be better at the museum, but it's just a slow season. But that doesn't mean that we're at the sandstill because there's lots of stuff going on. I mean, I think I turned in two new displays this past week for printing, and I think that brings it up to one, two, three, four of I This is six or seven new displays we'll be putting up in January, and I'm not even done yet. There's a few more that I have to do.
We're getting a new digital display in which is kind of cool. It's gonna be a first for us, like an interactive touchscreen sort of display. I'll tell you about when it's done. We've got some cooperation from other Bigfooters out there on that one. We got some new stuff about the history and nomenclature of Sasquatch and Bigfoot. We've got some new Peter Burn artifacts that are going to be displayed. Of course, the Meldrum stuff is being integrated
pretty effectively as well. Lots of stuff going on at the NABC as always, so we don't sit still.
Well yeah that's great. Yeah, I mean it'd be really easy to breshing your laws. Like man, I was paining the butt putting that. I'm just gonna that's good enough. People will see it, you know, like whatever, if you want to, if you want to keep people coming back, you got to change stuff up. Because I'm sure what percentage do you think is repeat customers?
I don't know. I don't I don't if I if I had to take a guess, which I guess I do?
We see?
I don't know what some people come in and says, oh, yeah, we've been here before, or like when they come in the door. I always ask my employees and I do the same to greet the customer. Say, everybody who comes in gets a hello from us and a thank you when they leave, right, And it's just good business practice, I think. And when they come in and say, hey, you're going to check out the museum today and some people say, oh, I've already seen it. They go, okay, great,
well when did you see it? Oh, I saw it right after you opened. Say, well, then you haven't seen it, but they think they have. We're a little bit different now, let to say the least. So as far as that goes, yeah, we do get a lot of repeat customers, but regular customers are fewer. I don't know what percentage. It'd be hard to venture that. Guess what people are dropping by like every two or three months, but a fair number,
I mean, I don't know. There's probably at least a few dozen or maybe fifty people or so that do that, right, But I don't know what percentage that would be. But that's the whole point, you know. We try to keep people coming back because we have a small facility, and luckily we can we have we're nimble enough being a
small facility that we can change things out. But it's almost to the point where a good percentage, probably a third or half of the stuff we have in there, I think should be permanently exhibited, you know, like the Ape Canyon stuff, right, Like I don't want to pull that. That's cool, totally. Well, yeah, so yeah, there's certain things that I want to keep up all the time, of course, but you know, being a small facility, we have to use whatever wall space we have or floor space or
even ceiling space as display places. You know, we have some stuff on the ground that replicates the Patterson Gidwin
step length. Yeah, we're kind of building up a little bit, you know, trying to go above head level, like we're doing a tree break a tree twist display, because I have some historical stuff from the Freeman collection via doctor Meldrum, and of course we have a number of tree twists in the woods that are just sitting there that are astonishing, just astonishing, amazing things that nobody would argue is done naturally, you know, like that's not wind for example.
Or not elm harvests.
Right, well, that's just it. I applied for the permit back in October, but then these people who think they're running the country shut everything down for a little bit, so that delayed everything. And I went into the office about a week and a half two weeks ago and said, hey, remember me that guy up the street the big Foot Museum and just haven't heard anything. And they say, oh, well, here's an here's the email address for the and I wrote that person that the next day and it's been
about two weeks now, no reply yet. So I'm not I can't go harvest these individual trees, these twisted trees, until I get the permit, of course, just kind of waiting. And until we get the trees, I can't really design the display. But those are going to go above the head of everybody, so they're out of the reach of you know, various people who come into the museum, like kids mostly, And then so yeah, we're new stuff is happening,
New stuff is happening, more stuff in January. So if you are coming out to anywhere, if for our listeners are coming out to squatch Fest or whatever, they're intergalactic, they've gone UFO now whatever UFO's are real at least, but that again, you know how I feel about the paranormalill being introduced to this so watch thing. I think it's unfortunate, but I guess there's more money in it. But anyway, I guess that's the way the Chamber of
Commerce might do this. So anyway, at the end of January, now they're not all money grifters.
That are like, there's no times you guys have legit things that happening that is not explained conventionally that got into that because of what they experienced themselves.
Yeah, yeah, sure, yeah, I get. But I have been told that the UFO community has more money than the bigfoot community. Well obviously, yeah, by people who went that direction, So.
Of course I got. What it's not even close. Yeah, yeah, there's a thousand like PhD and genius level guys like that are way recognizing their fields internationally that you know, are interested and involved in that whole you know, UFO phenomena.
Yeah, and yeah, if various festivals want to go that direction, I guess it's okay. But they're trying to make a big tent where everybody fits underneath it. That's the driving force now for me, like trying to prove the species, it's just a let's keep this thing real for a change, you know, let this do the big foot stuff for real. I don't think UFOs and big foot blong in the same bucket.
It might it could be part of the whole idea of the grand unification of the weird hogwash balder dash. There's a lot of people smarter than all of us. I think there's something to it.
Who a lot name three?
Oh dude, yeah, next episode, next next, I'll have a list of twenty.
You said there's a lot name three?
Three?
Is not that many to name.
You know, I'm not get off the top of my head through it. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot of people that it should like the whole overlapping of like you know, like potentially like parallel universes. Although I just listened to a podcast with these, like it's way over my head most of it. But this guy's explain how the there is like people CITs evidence for parallel universes, there's really no evidence. Yeah.
I just think any sort of like grand unification of
the weird just falls short. It's just using the gaps, which there are many gaps, and that's why these are all mysterious phenomena because they're as yet unproven, and trying to fill those gaps with other mysterious phenomena where it's like there is obviously something too, like the apparitional phenomena because it's been reported worldwide forever, and there's obviously something to the UFO phenomenon, and there's in our opinion something to the mystery a phenomenon, but to think that they
all have a common source, like, to me, the things that are common across them are the human experience, because what all those things have in common are they're all experienced by human observers and they're being filtered through the human psyche. And so yes, people describe those experiences in many of the same ways their reactions, their perceptions, et cetera. But that doesn't mean that they have a common source.
Like as far as I can tell, Like I've said before, I'm no more willing to assume that they're connected than anything else that occurs in the natural world, because yeah, there's mysterious phenomena out there, but that mean that they're associated with possums or elk or deer, like no one thinks that.
Extra like either extra traustial or ultratreustrial sources like in DNA manipulations. Think if they're if they really are here for genetic material, although I could argue against that in some ways too, But if they're here like and they're doing experiments like with humans and human type creatures, I mean, who knows. I mean, who knows if all this UFO stuff. I mean, that's because the UFO phenomenon to mean is
wide open. So like, what what's the cause? What if they are whatever, if they are extra ultraterrestrial, what's their purpose? How long do you know all this? And that like it's we don't know. It's wide open.
Oh certainly, But then to say that like it's definitely connected to this one particular animal again, why not possums.
Because they don't want possum gena, they want human DNA.
Do you know?
Because I know, I know feel have been on those ships for it, They've talked to these people.
May they say that it's at least a possibility.
That's my point though, is like people see people are in forced areas and they have UFO sidings or aparitional experiences, and no one ever attributes them to animals that are like much more abundant in those places.
Jeremy to start a vimit through it?
Oh yeah, I think we should. I think we should have like possum and beyond.
You think I won't. You think I won't.
Because I am very interested in I've read a lot about the UFO phenomenon. I've read a lot about the apparitional or like consciousness, surviving beyond death, like all those things fascinate me. I just I don't think necessarily they're all associated with the sasquatch, you know.
Right, I mean, yeah, I don't think. I don't think sasquatches are piloting UFOs or anything like that. But if they are taking up people, and I guess to take cows too, like you know, cattle and other I guess other animals they do those they find with those weird like like autopsy like it was basically how autopsy and the organs or movie like with lasers. It looks like the majority is cattle, but they also you know, other livestock they get it just as well, but not as much.
Well, I think everybody knows my stance. You know. It's like, if they are associated with all these paranormal things, if they can turn invisible, if they can transfer people back in time, if they can speak to you inside your head, if they can do any of these things. Once they are discovered, they're not going to hide that from us, And some people are probably going to say, oh, sure,
they're going to hide that. Then we have to assume, just like Krantz points out in his book, then we have to assume wolves are also hiding that stuff from us as well, and that doesn't really get us anywhere, right, So let's get over the first home. Let's tell everybody that they're there, and in the meantime, let's just use the objective stuff that seems to be most real, that aren't outliers in order to keep the scientists involved.
I get that, I get all that. I'm just saying that I think we can't definitively say anything yet all on those things now.
But I think if you were making a prediction and you were to look at like this host of beliefs that people have about sasquatches, and that most people, because they're so interested in this subject, like most of the people who you know would be in our audience, have only ever encountered those beliefs via sasquatch books, podcast, movies, documentaries, testimony,
on and on and on. And then to step outside of that, which is, you know, I've been beating this drum forever, but to try to say, well, no, look at these other animals that are analogous in many ways, that had the exact same beliefs associated with them the same you got one.
Of the examples of all those in zoos and museums, like they've all been documented, Like.
Yeah, but there was a time when they weren't. You know, there were centuries and centuries where they weren't.
But my point is, like those before they had thermal imergy, before they had camera traps, before they had firearms, before they had all these things that we've had access to you now for like one hundred years or more in those thereas and some stuff obviously newer. But dude, it's weird that we don't have one known sample.
You don't think that it's weird that you can see the exact same suite of beliefs, like the same collection, in the same context, the same mystical powers attributed to them, like point for point, almost verbatim, in this slew of other analogous animals that we now understand to be like perfectly normal.
That you could easily say, like, well, this is the way that normal. We have samples of mobil we don't have we don't have sasquats.
Due so, but you would have to then concede that like, okay, well we just somehow, you know, devoid of our own psyches, just randomly came up with the same suite of beliefs of all these animals, and it happened that none of them were They were metaphorically true, but not literally true, except in the case of this one animal that like.
O, how long of those are solved? You're talking a long time ago? The amount of fire like just do
the upgrade and firearms alone? I mean, did you not have one body or part even like a finger that we can show or is pretty do that's I don't care how rare and that and that like every other things documented pretty you know, well pretty well documented, you know, like especially if you're now all that you're talking, dont all that size to not have any evidence at all, like you know, like physical that we can point out,
like remains, like you know, specimen type things. It's like that, dude, that's bizarre.
But you don't think it's more likely that we perceive nature a certain way, given the nature of human perception in the human psyche, and that these exact beliefs we have ascribed to all these other animals, and they fell away one by one, you know, over the centuries upon discovery.
But this one that has not yet been officially recognized, is indeed the holdout that actually does have all those abilities, you can very well argue that, Yeah, but if you were trying to make a prediction and going, well, we thought that about this, but then we learned that, and we thought that about this, but then we learned that, and you know, after a couple dozen examples, you'd go, well, if I were a betting man, I'd think, yeah, we think this, but one day we're going to learn earn
that instead.
I mean, I get that. I mean that's a pretty easy concept of grass. I'm just saying that. But we haven't there is it hasn't happened. Like that's freaking weird, dude, like that, there's nothing that we can't put to anything. I mean, you're talking about it, dude. I've seen one that was like fifteen hundred pounds. It's huge, and like
how that thing stays hidden? I mean I can see like people see them, Yeah, people see them, but for nothing to come in like concrete, we have just the powers and film that's think maybe the Freeman's you know that not that quality, but there's very there's so little quality footage. I mean, it's like it's pretty bizarre to like that we just don't have more.
I really don't think it is, though, because you know there there are so many other examples that fit that model. Until people really get involved and invested.
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right back after these messages. Boba, are you starting to notice thinning hair?
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Show me the last large, large, huge mammal apex type animal that we a's global distribution that has not been anything like nothing concrete on.
If you pick a category like you mentioned images like well. When so Young Park got involved pursuing the Siberian tiger in the nineties, there was less than one hour of footage of Siberian tigers in the wild that had been collected before he got involved. I mean, so there's an example of very really, how do people with cameras were equipped? And you're talking like as soon as the Civil Union.
Fell and like there's like Western stuff coming into more technology and this and that and more money if people haven't, but prior to that, dude, like who who is going to document photographically where those leopards were? I mean, very like there's some nomadic herdsman and you know, like mountaineering folks, Like there's hardly compared to like where sasquatches and Yawie's and other things just sting with all the cell phones.
I know, cell phones sucked for cameras, but there's still so I mean, it's it's really hard to explain that there's nothing.
But even your own experiences should give you those answers, because like you you did see one with a thermal imager and you didn't find it any easier to record than la person would.
Well, yeah, I didn't have a recording capability, But.
Exactly like or you you mentioned like, oh, look at all the guns, Well what would you have used to bring down a fifteen hundred pound animal on a camping trip.
I'm not sure a shot prod. I could use the twenty two and.
Work to get back to my original point squatch Fest being intergalactic. Now it makes as much sense to me as having like a bear conference and UFO conference combined into one.
I think sasquattions come from Earth and all that. I mean, they're they've evolved, But I just wonder how much genetic genetic manipulation's happened to humans over the years, you know, I mean by then, I'm like, are whatever I mean, I don't know about manipulation, but yeah, I guess manipulation.
I mean I listen to a lot of I listen to a lot of weird podcasts and interviews and stuff, so like, yeah, I obviously get some some bad info getting mixed in there, or a lot of bad info or confused or half ached info or partially true, partially
not or whatever. I mean. But it's just I've heard some of like people that are pretty well spoken and like, well, this doesn't make sense here, this doesn't make sense their evolutionary like brain size and how fast certain things developed, and like historical texts with you know, referring to like well, like whether it be angels or demons or like a
lot of it apply. It seems like it's applying to like that whole ancient alien sector, like you know, like this seems like these whatever these entities are like and these ships they've been around for a long time, thousands of years before we did nuclear tests.
Well, I guess we'll see. But in the meantime, I think that the best way to approach the sasquatch thing is through amateur wildlife biologists, like from Lens an amateur wildlife biologists Lens. I think we will learn the most about the animals that way.
I agree with that one hundred per cent. I don't think we could. I just don't think it's like approach to people that like go like, well, there's some weird stuff about these things. I've seen this in that it's like Tyler Dude's seen the ones seen a small one and a big one holding white orbs in their hands.
Don't know anything about it. I've I haven't, And I think that's where the last hold it is. If other people can be convinced of seemingly ridiculous things being real, And I must say and mind you, my life is
full of ridiculous things like chock full. But if other people, if that's what it took for other people to believe that stuff, then I think it's fair to say that I need that to You know, I've seen enough, I've done enough to be completely confident sasquatches are real animals, and I've never once, never once have seen or heard or anything like that, anything that would make me think
that they're anything else but perfectly normal animals. And to have other people say that, you know, I've been I've told you lots of times. I've been accused of being closed minded. I've been accused of being spiritually constipated, which is an odd thing. I've been accused of all sorts of ridiculous things by people. And that's why that the Bigfoot people have not reached out to me and or I've ignored their pleads and all that sort of stuff.
But if their experience is what turned them, then why do not Why do I not get that same courtesy about my own experience? Is my thought. You know, I am advocating for the discovery of the species in order to find out what's really going on, and I strongly suspect that I'm right, just like everybody else strongly suspects that they're right. Again, same courtesy is being it should be extended to me as what they expect me to extend to them. You know, of course, I think I'm right,
just like everybody thinks they're right. And there's a whole lot that I don't know, and I'm right about that too. I also don't.
I don't think i'm right. I just I'm still wide open.
I'm just saying that it makes it. I don't think that the UFO thing is necessary, because it's not necessary for a bare biology convention either. But then whatever, but more people are coming in, more weird people. It's gonna be great. It's gonna be great. I'm looking forward to the job. I just I'm looking forward to the day when we can separate those two things.
I don't want to complain. I wouldn't want to combine the two, and comp's.
Part of the quandary that we're in right now is because of things like in search of and stuff piling off like crystal skulls in Atlantis and Bigfoot. Well, I guess at that point it belonged in that realm, but No, it didn't even belonging there.
Then about provin mummies.
I don't know anything about them, and I know that some of the work that's been done has been pretty misleading, but I just don't don't know. I don't care. I don't look into it, but I do care about soundsquatch stuff, and I spent a lot of time looking into that.
What do you think about that? The proven mummies? I mean, there's some pretty people. I was shocked to hear like legit people saying like, well, that these things are real.
Like did you watch Jesse Michael's documentary about it?
No, but I heard him talk about it. Yeah, listen, I'm listening to him talk about it a few times.
Yeah, it's his documentary was fascinating. But it's funny because he came to mind. I've heard him many times. He's like, no, this is real. It's not some nonsense like Bigfoot.
He said that. I was pissed exactly.
Well, so, in the same way that there's plenty of us who think like there should not be a cross pollination, there's no shortage of UFO people who are like, oh God, don't cross pollinate with this, with that Bigfoot nonsense, you know.
And I think that's I think that's like, that's wrong. I mean yeah, I mean I don't know, it's like, what's his name? I loved I loved this series until he did the big Foot one, and I still like it a lot.
The Wi Files.
Yes, there's on big Foot. I was like, now after everything else they said in a question.
Yes, I've had that experience many times where I'll, you know, for entertainment purposes, watch or listen to some like catch all podcast or YouTube channel, and it is mostly talking about things that I'm unfamiliar with, right, Oh, that's really interesting. And then they will get to something like the Sasquatch,
and they'll get so many things factually wrong. And it can be several things like, you know, the date of the Patterson film, like things that are easily googleable that are not really something that requires interpretation or a background in a particular you know, discipline, and they'll get that stuff wrong, and I'm like, oh, so they're probably equally lacks about all these other subjects that I just didn't know anything about.
That's exactly That's why I was like, I s so disappointed when I heard that. I was like when Rugg and flipped on Bigfoot. I was like, oh, man, like they keeps talking smack on a NonStop. It's like, Dade, it just makes you, you know, like, if you're that wrong on that, like and like and you know so out and about it, that's a whole different thing saying like I don't think that's I don't think that's correct. But you know, we'll see.
To Cliff's point, I think a big part of the problem is that for anybody who wades into this subject, you know, there was a point in time when they would wade into it and they would be met with mostly very grounded information because it was being presented aggregated sort of like curated by grounded people like John Green, and you know, the few talking heads that would be on an episode of In Search of would be you know, John Green, Grover Krantz, and then a handful of witnesses
that they probably provide, you know, I'm sure Green was the one who was providing witnesses for those things, And so mostly what you'd be met with was, like, you know, outside of the fact that there's supposedly an undiscovered ape in North America, like, it's all fairly grounded and believable.
But now it is that grand unified theory of weirdness where the sasquatch is like anything and everything under the sun, and it has every metaphysical power and supernatural ability you can throw at it, and it's associated with you know, ancient civilizations and aliens and and so it's no wonder that when people do dip a toe into it, like you know, I know Joe Rogan's been looking into it for years, but people of that sort, you know, they're like, oh yeah, man, I looked at that for five minutes,
and it's insane. It's all nonsense because they can't be expected to have the time or discernment to go, Hey, just trust me, if you weed through the ninety nine percent of bullshit, you'll find good stuff. Just trust me, bro, you know, right. We try to do our best, or I try to do my best in like writing a book or what I say on podcast, but it's like, you know, we're a drop and a bucket of insane or we're dropping an ocean of insaneanity.
For the most part, the tact I take, like the direction I go is that I can only who has time for more than one thing? Right, Really, at the end of the day, I know, I'm kind of a generalist and a lot for a lot of different things. But Sasquatch is my gig, you know, like that's the one thing that I kind of know something about, you know, besides you know, playing guitar or something like that. Right,
But I don't have time for UFOs and ghosts. I don't have time for all that the demonology or you know, Crystal skulls in Atlantis, and I haven't spent any time on it because I don't care. And I'm assuming most other people are kind of like that. But some people make a living and there's a market for the people who are who act like they know something about everything.
Yeah, that's the one I do like when I those guys that are generalists and they using this big Foot excerpts from Like, there's some guys that know their stuff, like Ken Gearhart.
Ken Gearhart is a great example of a generalist who knows a lot about a lot of different things.
Right. There's a lot of other.
Generalists that are just uh, especially the paranormal generalists who are trying like the Grand unification theory of paranormality or whatever. Like those people they're coming from a very different place, very and of course they're there. I think that their information pools are are kind of vustly poisoned, essentially that I don't think they are familiar with the John Green books. For example. They might they might know who John Green is and feel like they've done their homework, but I
doubt they've read them. You know, I read them very thoroughly, or certainly not multiple times. Because they're getting their sources from other places like Lapsterritis or somewhere like that, because that's what they're drawn towards. They're drawn that direction, so that's their primary sources. Instead of going to the actual primary sources of the field, they're going for the places that overlap and then they can access those kinds of resources.
I can't blame somebody for being so wrong about the Patterson Gimblin film date. If their whole gig is I don't know what pruvi and mummies or whatever you said earlier, it doesn't matter, Like that's not what they do. I don't expect them to be insanely accurate, you know. Where Whereas if you know, somebody has a bigfoot blog or a podcast or something, I do expect a little bit more out of them, I think, But I don't know.
I don't know because I don't might I might be interested slightly in UFOs, I might have seen a couple of them or something, but I don't care. At the end of the day, it's cool, it's neat, but I don't care. I'm not an expert on I'm not going to pretend to be.
But I don't know.
I just don't see. I just don't see the overlap. Certainly, a lot of different conferences that I speak at have the paranormal element represented, and I'm looking forward to the day that we can go to a Bigfoot conference and learn about the wildlife biology behind it, just like one would expect by going to a wolf conference or a wolverine conference, or a bear conference or any of those other perfectly normal animals. So I think that's my whole thing.
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. Will be right back after these messages. As doctor Meldrem and I spoke about back in June, it's like, if not us who you know, like, if our voices in the field are not present, all they're going to get is the wacky stuff and then does that do any damage to the subject And the answer is probably yes. But at the same time, maybe my time is best spent elsewhere, you know, like on the podcast for example.
That's exactly what I was going to say, is that it is a different time I think because I used to think that too. It's like, well, if I don't go speak there, then an ecologically or biologically grounded point of view is not going to be on the table.
And so am I obligated to do that. But then at the same time, while in this world of interconnectivity, it's like, well, we can talk on this podcast every week twice a week, you know, for regular listeners and our members, and then you know, I wrote a book and put that out there that's accessible, you know, and so it's like, well, that's that's me putting that perspective
out into the world. It doesn't necessarily mean I have to participate in every single event that extends an invite if it doesn't make sense, because you know, I'm not I don't necessarily think that it reaches as many people. And you know, the great thing about this podcast or other podcast, it's like, if you're a regular listener like it's free, you know. Yeah, you have to skip through some ads. That's the only price of admission, you know, And you can listen to it on your own time
and those kind of things. And it's permanent. It's on the internet forever for as long as the Internet shall exist in this form or other forms that carry into the future.
Versus like a.
Lot of times at an event, you know, there's ten speakers. I'm somewhere in the middle, and I just know that, like, these people are exhausted because they've heard a lot of They've had a lot of information thrown at them, and I'm like, this room full of people, that's a limited number. They're going to forget eighty five percent of what I said by the time their butts get out of the seats to take a break between me and the next speaker, and they can't re access it because it's not online
and accessible. So I do think that, you know, this has definitely supplanted that and taken the place of that and serves that purpose. And this is more like a retail store in the sense that like, if you're interested, you can walk in the front door. We've got a sign out front, you know what we offer if you're interested in that perspective, come on in, hang out. You know, at an event, very often you are being sort of like thrust in front of people that might not be
there to hear. They might be there to hear someone with a totally diametrically opposed perspective, and that's totally fine, that's great, But at the same time, it's like, well, how much does that benefit you or them? You know, that makes you sort of like the salesman now, Like now you're going door to door, knocking and saying, hey, can I interest you in what I got? You know, at most I don't like that. I don't like when people do that to me. I've had jobs where I
was in outbound sales and I hated it. Whereas like if you worked in retail, like if I worked in a guitar store, I love guitars, I'll just hang out here if you're interested in one, you can walk in if you go, hey, man, what do you think about this piece of gear? Like, oh, I'm happy to talk about what I like or what might work for you, but I'm not going to go knock on your door and say, hey, can I interest you in picking up a guitar. You know it's and that can be what those big conferences are.
Like, you know what I don't like is that the being sharing the same stage with that kind of like such a variety of perspectives I find is confusing to the audience and to delay people. That's like, Oh, I like that TV show. I'm going to come in and listen to what they have to say. I want to learn a little bit about bigfoot, what the experts have to say about them, right and they And I had one lady come up to my table at a job this year and she said, but you're saying that there
is an animal. This other person is saying that they're this, and and that's another person said that they're this, And like, I don't know what to think. I don't know what And I just said, hey, you know what, look at the evidence of what everybody's putting forth. What seems to be the most logical to you? What what is making the fewest assumptions, what jibes with your worldview? And you decide I'm not going to tell you what to think.
I'm just I'm just I'm telling you what i'm finding and the other people are doing maybe something similar, or maybe they're telling you what to think. You would make the decision way way what we've all shared and you come to the decision of what you think is going on. Because all my presentations, I'm just saying, well, this is what i'm finding, Look what I found, Look at this, and this is what I'm how and I'm interpreting it. I'm not telling you what these things are, what they're doing,
or you know that kind of stuff. I'm just saying that, like, this is what I find. But this poor lady, I remember, she was very distraught because she had two or three different views on sasquatch presented to her by what she thought were experts, and what are you supposed to do with that?
Right?
And I felt bad for her. So and if I don't know, I'm feeling this time to shift gears a little bit in my own professional life, I think, and I feel like I've been saddled with a certain level of responsibility by doctor Jeff Meldrum, of course, you know, with him leaving me an entire collection, and I think it's time to up my game a little bit. Maybe, And because I think that, I think Darby's going to
do it in the next couple of years. I think I think the mystery is going to be done in the next five or eight years probably, and then what well I want to be a part of it, still, right, the better I present myself, the higher the chance is going to be that I can continue participating and learning about the animals.
I'm not saying that you should be like I'm just saying like you should be like so contemptuous sounding when you when you condemn the people that think there's more to Bigfoot than just straight up this undiscovered primate. Maybe I don't think we're contemptuous as much.
Well, at least from my perspective. I'm just trying to offer an alternative perspective that is generous.
Well, that sounds more contemptuous for sure.
Absolutely well I am, I absolutely am. Matt has always been more generous to ridiculous points of view than I am. Absolutely there you go again, Cliff, Well, you.
Know, to beat this example to death, but maybe there's new listeners that haven't heard it. Like, you know, the way that you experience the world, there is a validity to that experience. And so the simplest example that I always use in presentations and public talks is to say, like, you experience the Sun as it moves around you from
your perspective. So any description from across time that you know the Earth is the center of the Solar system, of the galaxy or the universe is completely defensible, because if you were to go outside and stand and watch the movement of the Sun, it would come up one side of you and go up above and around and down the other side of you. And so that is a phenomenologically authentic description of the movement of heavenly bodies.
And so there's nothing inaccurate about that worldview, although it is not It does not have a one to one relationship with objective reality. And it took us a very long time to figure out that we're on a sphere, a spinning sphere that rotates around orbits around the Sun. And so I think you can apply that same logic to so many of these cases to say, like, I
understand that your experience was authentic. I do think that there's another way to look at the cause of that experience or where that experience is being generated from, rather than saying that you know, a sasquatch with some supernatural abilities did that to you, that you had an authentic experience.
You're experiencing real psychological, physiological, neurological responses that are common and universal, which is why people describe the same experience with other animals and in UFO encounters and during aparitional experiences, on and on and on. But to say like that's the most likely explanation is that that's common to the
human experience because it's happening within the human observer. And so I'm not saying like those people are lying or that they're wrong, or that they made up the story, or that they're crazy or delusional, just trying to say, like, there is a reality to the experience, but maybe you're putting the onus in the wrong place, And here's another way to look at it, to reframe. Just like, no one's lying when they say the sun revolves around them.
You know they're not misleading anyone, and they're not crazy
and delusional. It's like two shades of truth, experiential truth and objective truth, and they're both very very important, but they do need to be sort of categorized as such to say, like, well, what's going on here from an objective standpoint, because that matters to us in one part of our endeavor and what's happening from an experiential standpoint, because that's just as important, you know, because we're not objects, we're subjects, so the subjective is important, but it has
to be delineated. And I just think that that's an important thing to do with these cases too, rather than to go, yeah, well we've explained it with everything else. But the sasquatch really is the shape shifting, mind reading, moral judge that can mediate between the physical realm and the other realm.
You know.
Yeah, and ridiculous points of view doesn't mean the person is lying or even wrong about what you know. Their interpretation, I think is incorrect, but their observations may be valid, and then there's nothing wrong with that. And I know a lot of people who think that way, and there's nothing wrong with think in that way other than it's probably incorrect, you know. But when I hear, because I mean,
you've been told the same things. I'm sure I think all the listeners have who have dabbled in this at all. I've been told that sasquatches are from outer space. I've been told that they're from inner space, whatever that means. I've been told that they're from other dimensions. I have been told that they're from inside the hollow Earth. I have been told that they're time travelers. I have been told that they that they're gods. I have been told
that they're devils. I have been told that they're angels. I have been told that they're they're neutral beings. I've been told that they're here to take away the glory of Jesus. I have been told that, I mean, I could go down, I can go on and on. And all of those things are under the umbrella of paranormal. I don't believe any of them, certainly don't believe all of them. But the model, the paranormal model, is not self congruent, you know. It's it's not something that you
can hang your hat on. It's not even a thing. It's all these different beliefs. I've been told that, oh, they're earth spirits. There's another one that the yea, I don't know. It goes on and on and on. Why would I believe that they're paranormal when the paranormal doesn't even agree with themselves. It seems that the only thing that the paranormal people can agree on is that the ape hypothesis is ridiculous and stupid, yes, and I don't it seems to be the only one that like holds
together with any sort of cohesion. So I'm just going where my brain tells me to go and and not where a huge variety of people have told me that is true, you know. So I don't know. It just doesn't make sense to me because very few of those things sound logical to me, and none of them literally none of them seems to be supported by what I see personally out in the woods.
I'm just saying that people that I find very trustworthy and good character and judgment have had these experiences that are freaking bizarre, and I don't know what the cause was, and some of it in conjunction with you know, Bigfoot, with other weird stuff like the orbs or whatnot. I mean, there's just the fact that there's no physical evidence, like remains that we know of that we can point to
from anywhere in the world. Is you know, just it's it's bizarre, and I know you gotta say it's not, but it is.
Well, I think it's explainable, But I honestly think, like if it came down to a decision tree where I was, you know, like a gun to head decision. If it was like, how do you explain the lack of any physical remains in spite of all these claimed experiences. To me, the most likely answer would be like, well, they don't exist, and we're having like a slew of psychological experiences. We're having a slew of misidentifications and misinterpretations of the natural world.
There's a slew of liars and fabricators. But despite all that, you know, there's real stimuli out in the woods. I know that because I've heard it. You know, I've heard vocalizations. I've had seemingly like projectiles, stone at me rocks. I've had this host of experiences that are consistent with the sasquatch phenomenon. But I think if all that continue to fail, I got, well, maybe they just don't exist and I've
just been misinterpreting all this. I think that would be more likely than going, yeah, well, they're just the shape shifting UFO writing metaphysical portal hoppers who can read my mind and they know I'm looking for them, and so they'll never let me find Like, to me, if I had to choose that, I just think that, you know, one thing I think is important to point out is that when you're interacting with people, we're playing a game of sorts, but we're not playing the same game.
We're not playing by the same.
Rules, because I think the rules that Cliff follows that I follow are like, I'm trying to put more constraints on myself and more restrictions on myself than any of the detractors would put on me. And so for starters, I'm not going to violate any of the axioms of any given field for this purpose. Let's say it's biology, zoology, ecology, et cetera. So that's a set of constraints. I'm not going to invoke things beyond the known if I can
help it. I mean, obviously we're in the realm of the unknown, but I'm not going to reach for an
equally mysterious phenomena as an explanation. So within that set of constraints, it's like, could there be an ape from one of these lineages that made it to North America that are very rare, that have long lives, that are being experienced by the human psyche in such a way that leaves them with the impression, the phenomenological impression that they were A, B, and C. And so that's the premise of the whole book to say, like, within all these extreme constraints that I put on myself, can I
explain the entirety of the phenomenon? Yes, here's my argument. Do you take it or leave it. It doesn't mean anyone's going.
To agree with it.
But I think when we're talking about dealing with these other people, the difference is they have no such constraints. Whatsoever, anything goes, any explanation is equally valid. It doesn't matter if it violates any of the principles of any discipline, any field. It doesn't matter how many unknowns they have
to reach for. And so that's where I think a lot of that disconnect is where it's like, well, you know, I wish I could just reach for any explanation and say, oh, yeah, well, the reason we can't find them is because they're powered by gamma radiation and can do this. But I don't have that ability because I've chosen my own shackles, and I chose the shackles of that I just described, of the known and things of that nature. So I think
that's where a lot of that frustration comes from. But I do think that what I can offer is a unified theory of sorts that says, like, well, here's how it could be that these animals could exist and still
be unrecognized. I wouldn't say undiscovered, just like Bin and Nagel, like many people have discovered them much to their own you know, if we believe the claims, and here's how it could be that we don't have a substantial portion of a specimen yet, on and on and on, and I think until that explanation, at least for me, this fails to suffice, then I can widen it a little
bit more to accommodate whatever needs to be accommodated. Rather than saying, well, we'll just break the whole the whole model, all the walls and to let anything in. It's like, now we'll start here, and if that fails to be sufficient, widen the circle a little bit. And if that fails to be sufficient. You know, it's the same with any sort of like hypothesis generation and science. I mean that's
what you do. You try to generate the simplest hypothesis possible, and if it fails to be an explanation, you modified a bit and it gets slightly more complex, only as complex as it needs to be to explain the phenomena observed.
I'm just trying to think of a good.
Rebuttal and I appreciate that, you know, other people don't work with those same constraints, And that's that's totally mind that that is, you.
Know, I get I'm not I'm not bad mouth from that. I'm just saying that. And and Cliff should be should be taken that. I mean, Cliff should just be focused completely on three dimensional you know species, you know, you know from the animal kingdom. That's pretty because if we want to get I want to know, I want to know more about how they live, like, how how do they like? What's their day to day like I want
to know all that. And that's not going to happen by doing conferences and books on UFOs and bigfoots.
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo will be right back after these messages. And also, it's so much about interpretation, and I've been saying the interpretation versus observation is a huge soft spot in our world. I think, you know, it's like that witness I think I talked about it a couple of weeks ago. Like that guy who saw went out by Heppner when he was hunting in November, he saw one of these things.
He actually saw two. I believe he saw a very large one go into a clump of bushes, and then he told me that the thing shape shifted into a human size thing and walked away. But I think a simpler explanation is that there were two because from what I personally find in the woods, I think they travel in small groups. I don't think that they're clumped together
like fish schooling. I think when I say they travel together in small groups, that there's one or two or two or three of these things within a couple hundred yards of each other as they move through the woods, based on the footprint tracks that I have personally found and observed.
You know.
So again, I'm like I think I said this last week or a couple of weeks ago, that I'm trying to rely less and less on what other people tell me and trying to put more stock in what I find and questioning what I mean I take. Okay, so somebody says this, I wonder if what I'm finding in the woods supports this idea or not. You know, I don't take any what anybody else says is truth anymore.
I just take it as an idea, and I kind of see if my own findings support that, you know, or it doesn't even seem logical, you know, which is I guess my own findings. But I think the guy probably saw two of them, an eight footer and a six footer. One went in the bushes, the other one walked out of the bushes. But I don't think it was the eight footer shape shifting into a smaller one.
That doesn't seem logical, especially when I my evidence, my personal experience, which is what I was talking about earlier, that people should afford me that same courtesy that I have. My own experiences indicate that they move in groups. There's very often more than one around, you know, So I don't know.
I don't know.
It's all about interpretation, and I guess what level of magical thinking you're used to. And that's what it kind of comes down to. Magical thinking. I mean, the world, the universe is a magical, magical place. It's astonishing. The whole that we exist at all is literally a miracle, you know, like that some sort of cosmic soup made Cliff's dour consciousness. You know, I think that's amazing. Bobo himself is a miracle, you know, in more ways than
I could possibly express. But it's just about an interpretation, you know, interpretation and and what your world view is, like those cultural filters that you see the world through. This guy apparently believes shape shifting is a more logical explanation there than there were two of them. And when I asked, well, why would you think that its shape shifted instead of there were two of them there, he goes, Oh, I just can't imagine something that large being able to hide effectively.
Well, people will underestimate, like their ability to just see. I was listening to another podcast catmember who as it was, But this guy was describing how this thing, like how these things like hidden playing sight, you know, like some other people came from another direction of these things just
like you know, pressed up against a tree. And he said, like it like looked like it was just a part of the tree, like a like a big chuck of burrow or something, you know, like you know, it was daylight, you know, it was there are some shadows and stuff cast across it. So it wasn't like direct slide on the whole thing tend to toe, but you know it
was it was totally visible. And he watched it, you know, go up next to the tree and just and the like blend in and then there was a second squatch and it laid down and it just laid down and froze. And these people just were walking along takeing a hike and just walked right by him and I didn't even notice.
And you know, in daylight, I've had that experience like with other people where a couple of years ago, I was with Mike Mays down in North Georgia. We were filming something for this thing. So we had this little film crew, so there was Mike and I and then these three people in this film crew. They had opened
the gate to this area. It's only opened for a little while just for the hunting season, and it was prior to the hunting season, so it hadn't officially started yet, but the gate was open so people could go in there and access it, or I guess, you know, if they run dogs or whatever, go in and get their dogs. So we were back in this place and this truck started coming down the road, which I was like, oh, that's a bummer. Because it was during the middle of
the week. I didn't think there'd be anyone out there. But I was like, wow, the gate is opened. I was like, everybody, just step off the road a couple of feet, and so we just stepped into the brush. Weren't that obscured. And you know, Mike and I are wearing earth tones, but the crews wearing like red and yellow, like bright colors. And this car drove right past us and then got to the creek and decided not to cross, and like looked and backed up and never once looked
in our direction. And I'm like, I'm ninety nine percent sure that person had no idea that there were five humans standing ten feet from his truck. That was all the time, you know, and it just and I pointed that out to the crew. I was like, do you notice that guy. I don't think he even sauce here. We were standing right there, right off the road, and they were wearing bright colors, you know, and he never
saw it. And a lot of it has to do with expectation, you know, he probably didn't expect to see, you know, a group of people out there standing around or whatever. But because you know, usually you'd wave everybody like oh hey, sorry or whatever. The case, may'd be
some some level of acknowledgment. But but yeah, I think you can imagine that that's the same reason that people thought that tyger could vanish into the spirit realm, you know, because they could materialize from nothing and then vanish back into thin air. And like, these are animals that are very adept at hiding. And then we heard all of Gareth Patterson's descriptions about how hard it was to observe
these elephants, and those are elephants. Man, They're not small, and they're not stealthy, you know, they're not quiet or I think that gives rise to beliefs. When Cliff was talking about the individual likely seeing a second sasquatch and assuming it had shape shifted, how many legends have you heard about that attribute the power of ventriloquism to sasquatches, that they can throw their voices and sound like they're coming from a different direction. And you think, well, what
experience would give rise to that belief? Oh, well, if you're seeing one, or you see one enter one woodline and then you hear a sound from the woodline behind you, You would it be easier to assume that the thing you saw made that sound from a different direction, or should you assume like, oh man, there's two of them out here, you know, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, So I think there's a whole lot of those. That's what I
try to go into such great linked about. It's like, well, let's look at all these legends or folkloric mythological sort of elements and say like, oh, there's very reasonable, very real explanations for all these and it's no wonder that someone would believe that this animal is capable of doing this because they're having real experiences. I just think there are simpler explanations.
Right yeah, yeah, But I think I don't think it explains everything every time, Like I think there's something the experienced things that are just I mean that I think as far as I'm disappearing that kind of stuffing, that's their ability to I think their ability to hide and something that may be able to hide and play site is is much much better than people can even fathom.
But on the same sense, there's plenty of people that are good observers that you know, like like, for instance, military guys out on training exercises like like infantry and special forces type guys, you know, and recon all that, and they they go out there and you know, well, I guess they're not armed when they're doing exercises, like they don't have live amma, but I don't just yeah,
they can hide, but and they get seen. But I mean just the fact that we don't have anything like concrete from their personage, like their actual physical body like that we can poinch is that just seems bizarre, dude, Like it's you can say, oh this, this is that. But they Okay, so the panda bear whatever, that's been one hundred and twenty one hundred and thirty years now, we've we've had those or more. Gorilla is the same thing.
It's like one hundred and twenty something years since we've got and they were doing that stuff back when they before they even have flashlights and walkie talkies or you know anything. I mean, like no monitoring equipment. No, you know, it's just.
Who's pursuing a physical specimen in the last since the dawn of sasquatchry, let's say, in nineteen fifty eight, when when people really started to pursue living sasquatches intentionally.
Not a lot. I've got your pictures of Krantz walking around with the gun and the Blues with Freeman.
Yeah, that's one guy.
Seen some stuff down in Bluff Creek in the nineteen sixties, those guys like John. I think I had seen John Green with a rifle on his back at some point.
What Green described to me when I was with him was he was like, oh, I had no business Karen rifle. I didn't know what I was doing. We didn't know anything about these animals. We're just walking the roads hoping to get lucky.
He said.
It wasn't anything like a real hunt. And in terms of like finding intentionally looking for or intentionally trying to find remains, like you can scour the histories of you know, the Bigfoot research project in the BFRO and the NAWAC and the Olympic project, like no one's looking for remains.
Most people are keeping an eye out if they stumble across it, they'd pay attention to it or maybe try to collect it and turn it in somewhere, But there's no intent and that most people are trying to encounter living sasquatches, either to observe them, with their own eyes, or to take photographs or get video, or to put up game cameras, or to find tracks. And that's about it.
You know, no one's you can look at that whole history of the pursuit and go, like, show me the person who's actively you know, searching, really searching for remains again, not just hiking and keeping an eye open. It's not there.
There's tons of like geologists stuff they're doing other things that they could come across, or biologists that the remains saying yes, that's I mean, there's there's enough guns in the world, dude, like around that are capable of bringing something down, especially if you keep saying, how you know, like a lot of them are man's size. There's definitely a lot of firearms you could take those down, like a lot to me.
Like the point I try to make in conversations and in the book is like, let's say someone does have a sighting and while they're hunting, Well, most game that you're hunting is you know, you're you're probably not going to be carrying a firearm that's going to generate like an immediate lethal wound.
Yeah, but there's enough guys that bear hunt and moose hunt and elk hunt that have way significant enough firepower to bring down an animal that's only you know, say five hundred or seven hundred whatever pounds. There's lots of arm dunners out there like that.
Yeah, no, But the majority of people hunting, you know, just by the numbers you're going to say, are going to be like birds, turkeys, deer, you know, a lot smaller things and so yes, so now I know. But if you restrict that within all hunters to the people that have the firepower, that still doesn't mean that a shot is going to be immediately lethal. And so the way that I break it down is like a sighting might not even mean a shot opportunity. You might see one.
You might be able to, you know, once you get past the confusion or shock or what am I looking at or whatever the case may be. So let's say that you move from siding to shot opportunity. Well, a shot opportunity doesn't even mean that a shot will be taken because the person might be so shocked or confused again, or decide that maybe that's a person or it's certainly like a person and I'm not going to shoot, or I don't.
Know what it is.
So let's say, okay, we'll skip that. Let's say the shot is taken. Well, the shot taken does not guarantee that that shot will hit the animal. You know, there's a whole host of factors that can go into that. But let's say it does hit the animal. Okay, A shot hitting the animal doesn't even mean it's going to be a lethal wound. You know, it might be a very sustainable, survivable wound. Let's say, okay, skip that it
is a lethal wound. Okay, Well, a lethal wound could be it dies four days from now, it runs a mile and dies, it runs five miles and dies. You know, it dies a month later after you know, infection and injury, and it's unable to get calories and it basically starves to death or something. And so think of all the planets that have to align for a hunter with the right firepower to see a sasquatch fire or shot that makes you know, a lethal wound where the thing drops
in a place where it's accessible and recoverable. I mean, that's a whole lot of things that have to line up perfectly to equate to a hunter sees a sasquatch shoots it and brings it in somewhere.
Not the biggest thing that I that I point to you on that is that because I still say they carry they carry off they're wounded or dead, they're not going to leave them there for you to grab them.
Or even if someone dropped one and another one just started acting aggressively and like didn't even you know, pick it up and carry it off, just scared the person out of there. But I think the most likely thing is even if you shot one lethally, how far is it going to go before it drops dead? Because one of the things that I learned from, you know, interviewing a lot of people who have a lot of experience with big animals, is like, most of the time they
don't drop dead. You know, there's people that have you know, double lung shot deer and had the deer run hundreds of yards before it went down. And that's a little deer with a big rifle, and so some big animal that it's like, yeah, maybe it was a lethal wound and you'll never find the thing because wherever it ran to like, you're just not gonna you're not gonna find it. So to me, I don't have that much problem with the proposition that, like there's a lot of hunters out
there and yet no one's ever bagged. And it's like, well, we talk to people who shot at them, and we've talked to people who claim to hit them, and then we talk to people a tiny number who claim to
have shot and killed them. But in a lot of those cases, like they weren't recoverable, or if they were, the person opted and said like I don't want to deal with this, and they could see the sort of like life flash before their eyes of like what is what's going to become of my life if I have to deal with this, and they just decide not to talk about it for years. You know, if like Paul Shabaga or some of these other stories are true, I
don't have a problem with any of that. So to me, the fact that like a hunter's never brought one in, I don't see that as being like, oh, there must be something more mysterious going on other than that, like people rarely see them, most of the people that see them are not armed, Most of the hunters that see them are not taking shots, and of those that do, like a lot of them probably aren't even hitting them.
And if they do hit them, they're not lethal, and if they are lethal wounds, they're not findable or recoverable.
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo will be right back after these messages. You know, how I approach the mystery the more mysterious questions that Bobo is rightly asking. You know, I think that Bobo has a lot of interesting points, and those are good questions, and so therefore there are probably some good answers for them. And I see a lot of these things as opportunities
to ask the right kinds of questions. For example, like, okay, so no one no one finds remains right, Well, that's true of bears and Cougar's and we all know that. We've talked about it in a million times, right, everybody knows those things. But so what does that tell us about the kinds of places they do put themselves when they die? You know, maybe Bobo is right and they bury their dead or something that's that's on the table, and if that is, if that is not true, what
does that teach us about those kinds of places? Okay, So, so a lot of people have taken shots of these things and probably hit the animal. What does that teach us about the animals? Like, I think these these omissions of answers, you know, these questions that you ask that we don't have good answers instead of going to the paranormal realm to explain it, which I think many other researchers back in this set, I think that that's the quick and easy way to get the answers that you
might be looking for. But I think there's other possibilities. What do those omissions in the information we have about the animal teach us about the animal? I think that is very interesting and very instructive in a lot of ways. So if you shoot one and doesn't bring it down, what does that teach us? Does it tell us something about the how their muscle mass is so dense? Does it teach us something about how I don't know, maybe adrenaline kicks in and they run for two miles or
something and then drop there. I think the answers to those questions can teach us a lot about the animals, basically, is what it comes down to.
Yeah, well I agree with that. Yeah, And I'm just saying I'm not saying like I think, I'm not saying I think all the paranormal guys are totally right. Instead, I'm just saying that you can't write off all of it.
One of these days I'll tell the story. I'll probably tell it on the member section because it might be too graphic for the main audience. But I know someone who worked in law enforcement who had a partner who had to shoot a gorilla that had gotten out of an enclosure and was causing a lot of problems. To make a very long story short, this was not a very large male gorilla. It was a thirteen year old
Lowland gorilla that was in captivity. But he shot it with two It took two rounds of a three seventy five h and h to put it down, and neither round had an exit wound. And this was at close range, you know, I think sixty feet with a three seventy five h and h. Actually it was three rounds. It was two rounds to the front and one round to the back. He didn't neutralize the animal until the third round, and there were no exit wounds from any of those.
And so, as my friend related that story to me, okay, he had said, hey, man, if if you or anybody thinks that someone's going to bring down a sasquatch with a shot, It's like, it ain't gonna happen. You know, that thing is going to run and who knows how far it's going to get. You might, you might wound it with a leath a wound, but it is not
going to drop dead. That's not going to happen. But anyway, so when you're encountered with like these other real world examples and stuff like that, and you realize, like, man, I don't have a problem with why hasn't a hunter just dropped one and turned it in again? A lot of planets have to align to go from hunter c sasquatch to sasquatches delivered to some institution that we all find out about it.
You know.
Yeah, Well, I think that these these mysteries offer us learning opportunities if approached the right way. And I'm I'm going to venture a bet that what we learn is all very very very down to earth. I think the quick and easy way is to ascribe it to something that nobody understands, but to you know, paraphrase John Green explaining one unknown thing with another, It gets us nowhere. So I just choose not to go that route. If I sound like I'm full of contempt, maybe on my
bad days, I am, you know, and I'm human. I'm certainly subject to tons of faults. You know, Boba, you probably know my faults better than most people. We spent so much time together. We'll do that on the Members episode. But nonetheless, I think that the more we as a Bigfoot community speak about the subject in sober, down to earth mundane terms, the more acceptable this mystery is going to be too. The very scientists that we need to be involved and who will eventually be involved, no matter
or what. And I think the sooner we get there the better.
Yeah, Yeah, I want to get there. Yeah.
And you know, if they can turn invisible in shape shift, we'll find that out pretty quick, unless they're hiding it from us, in which case we have to assume wolves are as well.
Well.
Speaking of plans and goals and places we want to go, we.
Never achieved anything for this what we plan today, as often happens when we jump into something, you know.
Well, should we go to our member section and talk about highlights of twenty twenty five and our New Year's resolutions for twenty three.
We're going to put this discussion, you're not going to have edit it and put in some more stuff for it.
Yeah, pre paraphrase like the you know the old adage like man plans God laughs. Yeah, our podcast is like prove it plans, Cliff and Bobo laugh.
You never know what we're going to talk about. And you know, we didn't know we're going to talk about this, And how how great is that that somebody can tune into a podcast that we've been doing for years and years and years and they realized that we had good plans. I mean, I made a list, I've got a word doc, you know, all ready to go, and we didn't use
any of it. I spent like half hour while I was waiting on hold today with those tax people I was dealing with, which is why it was late, And I made this long list and I'm not even using it, you know, And I think that's kind of cool that even we, even the hosts, don't know what we're going to be doing sometimes. And I think there's something cool about that.
Well, if we were around the campfire or you know, a picnic table or something, this is the conversation we would have had.
You know, I didn't even have it. And subject, all the listeners have to listen to it.
But no, this is the kind of stuff we talk about all the time. So this is very you know, it's it's authentic. It's not like we plan to have this conversation. So but anyway, I guess we can close up shop here and we'll roll over to the pigeon side and recap the year and talk about our hopes and dreams.
Well, now that we've settled the debate about paranormal and real bigfoot stuff, you know. But but maybe you want to take it so and so. But I think it's a done deal now. I think we pretty much put that one to bed. There's no more arguments left.
I didn't stay at my position. I was not clear of thought. I wasn't planning on talking about that at all today.
No, no, I think you did, because if you look, if you read between the lines, what you really said. You didn't say you believe in that or this. You know you said that, keep your mind open, keep your mind open. Nobody really knows what's going on. And I can agree with that as well. I think I know what's going on because I'm trapped in my own perception, just like all these other people who think that they're
shape shifting or UFO writers. Right, and you're just saying let's not let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I offer us to Srea apology. I ever had to listen to this today. It's my fault. Sorry about that. We'll make up for it the new year.
Yeah, and you know pro he polishes turns for a living man. This will be great. Yeah, this is coming out post Christmas, right.
Br Yes, this will be the last episode of twenty twenty five.
All right, well twenty twenty six, we're gonna ring in with a great one approve. Okay, hey for sure? All right, folks, Hey, well thanks for joining us. Yeah, it's been an interesting year. We were supposed to recap it today, but we didn't. Just go back and listen to every episode. It'll be like the same thing or bekum.
A number and hear what we're going to talk about on the membership episode.
Yeah yeah, everyone that belongs to the membership say they liked those way better, so check it out. Well. Anyways, thanks for your support everyone. We hope you had a good year, and we hope you had a great year coming up. I hope you had a good holiday season and just we appreciate your support and hit like hit share, we appreciate it all right, keep it squatchy.
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