Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. These guys are your favorites, so like say subscribe and raid it, lip stuck, righteous one wish today and listening watching lim always keep its watching.
And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Boobo Fay Bobo. So Cliff, nothing well, all sorts of stuff as usual, but nothing in particular, just the general modgepodge of bigfoot stuff and people and events and all that other stuff. But it didn't Bart come up and visit you recently you do anything with him? Do you go to the woods?
Yeah, we got four nights in a rows. Nothing. We didn't do anything up but it was it was awesome and beautiful and had a good time. Was the moon was waxing, so we had some moonlight, which isn't always the best for having a squash action, but it was.
It was beautiful. It wasn't It was really cold one at this and that we did the where we drive up and down through the ball hills with Bart sits in the beach chair in the back of his in the bed of his truck and then I drive and that guy can Swiss stand some cold macaus He's out there in the wind for hours, just throwing up and down the all the meadows and prairies and stuff.
That sounds terrifying.
Yeah, it sounds. That does. Sounds kind of scary. But you know, you put thermal imager to Bart's eyes and there's no place in the world he'd rather be.
I think, I think it's crazy glue to his eye.
Oh yeah, the guy's nuts. The guy's nuts.
I don't.
You've said it before, and I one hundred percent agree with you that. Uh. I don't think anybody puts a thermal to their eye more than Bart does. You know, when he's out there like he might as well just make glasses out of him and wearing the entire time.
He's always got him up to his face. And that's how he's seen a couple of these things through thermal imagers too, brief courses here and there, because if not watching all the time, you're gonna miss something, and Bart doesn't want to miss anything.
Yep, yeah, yeah, I keep it up. I keep it to my eye a lot too, but not as much as him. Now. I just got prescription glasses for the first time in like ten years.
Nerd alert nice, so like glasses you have to wear all the time now, like well he said, he.
Goes, hey, you can wear these all the time, and they're like bifocals. But by long distance eyesight's pretty good and the reading part is hitting this. But I have the by figles really mess me up, Like they're kind of like fishity like where they come together and just like they just kind of make me feel like a little dizzy or something like that, like well like just like funhouse mirrors or something, you know, kind of like to a small.
Degree, Yeah, dizzier than usual though.
Yeah, I know this came up on your recent appearance on Charlie Raymond's YouTube channel, which I'll post the link in the comments, but I know people will want to know since we talked on two episodes now about you doing the document with the guy living his life by the roll of the dice, So our listeners might not have the update.
On that yet.
Oh yeah, that's supposed to be this past week or something, wasn't it.
Yeah, apparently my voice tex weren't going through and we had like I guess, like a scheduling this hap. I didn't hear back from him because he thought he thought I never was contacting him, So he wasn't contacting me, but we had the data set. So on that day I was ready and then he wasn't. They were like shooting something else. And I think I think he well because it was rolling dice and they had it where I was going to be two of the six options
to go to. It's like one I had a third chance, and I guess he didn't roll mine.
See, this guy doesn't know what he's getting into. And I'm sure he's a great guy, and I'm sure he's a badass in his own sort of way, but he doesn't know what he's up against. Like, oh, I'm going to live my life by chance. Well, yeah, we'll come meet the Master, meet Boba. You know he's got no no hope because your life, you know, like he Okay, so you get one and two you want to die roll of a d six, Dude, that's nothing compared to the chaos in your life. He came up against the
Master and he lost. That's what it came down to.
Well, I think he just rolled the other the other things.
Maybe he did, maybe he did, but again, like what did you roll? Okay, Well, you're sending voice texts. They don't come through things happened. I don't know, like whatever I mean, it could be anything with you, you know, like a parachuter could crash through your roof or something and get hit by a meteorite in your car. There chances your constant companion through the oh Man. Well, I had a pretty good weekend myself. I mean, we had an event at the NABC. I invited the pigeons out
to it, of course, and all the NABC members. Michael Freeman came out and did a special presentation just on the nineteen ninety one Mill Creek Trackway, which is fantastic that you know, that one trackway. I believe it's the longest trackway ever recorded. And to think that Paul Freeman faked it is absolutely astonishingly dumb. You know, I don't I don't see there's any other there's probably more gentle words to describe it, but the sentiment will be there.
It's just absolutely ridiculous to think that Paul Freeman would could fake that. You know, we had a nice reminder. Of course, Michael's an expert in his dad's stuff. You know, he knows a lot of the situations that contexts the people and Michael was there. He saw those tracks in the ground. In fact, he cast a print with his dad. That was the first print that his dad allowed him to cast. He had seen others previously, but he was never allowed to actually pour the plaster and until that day.
So he was actually there at the scene. But you know, digging up those Greg May documents that I posted for the pigeons as well as members, I hope he saw those. I mean six to eight miles up into the mountains.
I always heard five. But that's that's even more impression. I mean, because that's that's so much terrain. I mean, we went and saw part of the trackway was some rough train to track me for that many miles.
Yeah, and then Greg May, a survival expert, an outdoor dude who taught at Washington State University at Pullman with Krantz, he told me I tracked him down. It took a long time, but I had a conversation with him this year brilliant the spring or something, and he told me that he turned around because the conditions were getting too bad. The snow and the weather and whatnot made it unsafe, so he turned around. And now so it went further than the you know, six to eight miles that he tracted.
He just had to leave. Man. Remember, Paul Freeman at that point had a bad foot from a botched surgery. And you can see him in the photographs at the scene. He's walking with a cane. He couldn't go more than like thirty yards or something from his truck. But yet Paul faked them. No, that's ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous. Yeah, I mean, and to think that a hoaxer would go
through that level of effort. And it's not like, you know, you could use stompers for those because the tracks are all, you know, different than one another, not only in foot flexation but is but also in toe position and all this stuff. It's just boggles the mind that these people are like desperately holding onto this idea that Freeman hoaxed
everything he found. You know that that's a's a sad state of belief, I think, you know, and they call us, you know, the hopeless romantics or whatever they call us for thinking sasquatches are real, but they're clinging onto these weak arguments. I don't know, it's just so odd, Like once you start I wonder how much the diehard skeptics have really looked at not only the evidence itself, but also the context of the Freeman evidence. My bet would
be probably almost not at all, is my guess. I know that no one's you know, no one's reached out to me to see me the Freeman evidence. No one, I don't think really people have reached out to Jeff to ask about it, but they're more than willing to blast, you know, detrimental comments on Facebook or whatever about Paul Freeman. But no one's willing to look at the evidence. It's ridiculous.
And I mean, how many of those qualified to know what they're looking at?
Yeah?
Yeah, and you don't have to be academically qualified. I don't think it sure helps, of course, you know, but I'd love it whatever, yeah, tracker or something, or say, if you have a decent body of footprint casts, you know, like you have a good cast collection, you know, like you I think that qualifies you to some degree to come check it out. But if you have like five or six casts, well that's not very many, is.
It, you know? Yeah, I've seen Hunters your cast. Yeah, and then having you and Jeff points about while I'm looking at them, I'm not just looking at him like totally uninformed. You guys, you know you didn't just to point out interesting aspects something to me that I've learned from, for sure. Yeah. Yeah.
And of course after the event, you know, Mark Marcel was there, you know, the of Ape Canyon fame, Shane Corson and Chris and Rebecca Spencer were there. They came back to the house and hung out a little bit, and I got to show them some of them Eldrum collection, and you can imagine Mark Marcel's excitement with the files
and all that sort of stuff. So it was a good, good weekend, good weekend, although you know, I went to bed at three and then you know, Shane and Mark stayed up to almost five talking, So it was an exhausting weekend. I'm it was so fun, but I'm so glad it's over and I can get back to my normal, quiet, introverted life of being alone with my wife.
Tis the season?
Tis the season? Yeah, sure is.
And speaking of which, this is the final Q and A of twenty twenty five. It's been a lot of great questions submitted all year long, but I think this one is particularly good. There's a good wide range of questions here, and we got quite a few voicemails from our lovely listeners. So if you guys are ready, we can dive into those they are lovely. Let us begin with this stunningly named individual.
Hi guys, this is Matt from Cleveland, Ohio. So my question goes to Bobo.
Bobo.
I was watching an episode of Finding big Foot from season one where you guys went to Prince of Wales Island, Alaska, and you were speaking to a woman who had seen a sasquatch up in a tree. You mentioned that you had heard of adult male sasquatches being up in trees. So I'm wondering, how would an adult sasquatch be able to climb a tree if it's so tall and so heavy. Anyways, keep a squash, You guys love the podcasts.
I mean those big trees, I mean they I mean what that one they saw in an area some I think it was unimproved. The one that thought of the tree like eight foot or something.
I don't know if they had a good size estimate. It's pretty large, but I mean it was a big tree. It was a huge tree, and I think the thought was that it must have just basically like climbed the trunk centrally and just grasping on or standing on branches as they connected to the trunk. And then what they saw was the top of the tree swinging wildly back and forth while all the other trees were stationary. And then the whole crown of that tree snapped off and
fell to the ground. They saw this big, giant gray thing come out of it, essentially, and then when the crown crashed to the ground, they heard it run off. They could hear the footfalls. But yeah, I mean the sidings of gray ones down there tended to be in you know, seven foot plus feet tall, so presumably if that's some indicator of age, then yeah, it would be a big one. But again it was a very big tree.
Well, those big hard ones they have no I mean, even a fifteen hundred pounds sasquash wouldn't be anything in a big tree like a big hardway. I mean climb up little pines and stuff like. I mean, those practices aren't you you know, supported, but you can get like an oak trees and stuff like that. They have no problem holding a huge animal.
You know, and bears are very adept climbers. I mean they're not as heavy, but they still are great climbers. I remember, even small branches close to the trunk itself will hold a lot more weight thanenough to the end as well.
Oh yeah, basic physics, my boy.
Yeah, I don't have any problems with sasquatches being in trees at all. I mean, they're basically built for their shoulders, their arms are real long. Yeah, yeah, they're they're climbers. They're definitely climbers. I mean then also not just trees. Remember that Bob Tipmas had a sighting I don't know when. I don't think his stuff is super well documented. There
probably are obscure notes buried somewhere in some collection. Bob Tipmos had a sighting of a couple of them, like maybe two or three or four of them or something, climbing a cliff. He saw them at a great, great distance and they were just zipping up, like zipping up this cliff. So trees rocks whatever. Man, they're apes at the end of the day. Just like us, we can climb pretty well, and they can probably climb much much better.
It's like Sarah's story, you know, the terrifying night in the Marble Mountains where she was basically on a cliff face that was almost like a small escarpment, and she thought as she was hearing it in the valley down below, like, oh well, even if it gets to the base of the cliff, there's no way it can get up to me. And then it scaled that thing. And yeah, there's many sidings of them, like scaling rock faces, or climbing trees,
or climbing up on structures and things and apes. Climb, that's what they do, you know.
Yeah, I talked to this one guy. He worked in the wood where I worked in the woods up the cloud Up Tour or crik Up just also the tile of clouds. It's just real close out, several miles out. You got to go kind of far out there, but anyways, it's right there, coming in by the one O one when it comes into the river. He saw one go like a seventy foot cliff face, like in like dirt. It wasn't like you know, stone, it was just dirt.
But it flew up, he said, it just flew up it Like he said, you would have thought it was like on wires because it was sticking its hands, just making his hands like totally flat, like fingers straight out. It just would jabbed in the face of the of the dirt cliff face and throw itself up like that. It would stick its feet in where I already stuck its hand in, like punch his hand in. He use that for like a toe grip. As it went up and like he said, it just flew up. He said,
it was like it looked like magic. Like you couldn't believe it if you didn't see yourself. Said, it was just amazing how fast he said, it look like it flew up the cliff practically.
You know, a lot of the handprints that I find on these dirt slopes, these real steep dirt slopes that are not ninety degrees but like legit sixty degrees or more, the fingers are very often poked seemingly directly into the substrate, you know, whereas I might like claw my way up or whatever. A lot of times these things are, you know, and of course it might be a function of how
they're scraping up to it. They might be doing the same thing as meat as clawing, and their fingers are you know, lungs that they go in pretty deep, but they're pretty well pressed, I guess horizontally almost into the substrate in a lot of cases.
Yeah, I've talked to two Bio said they saw him do that, like where they they just stick their hand like just punch their hand like he's out as like you know, a hold the same as if there was like a protruding protruding rock sticking out you can grab ontire. They said, they pulled themselves out the same way, just jamming their hands into the dirt.
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. Will be right back after these messages. But were you starting to notice a thinning hair? Who me maybe a little a little hair left or a little thinning hair both. Well, I've got good news for you. Bobo him offers access to prescription treatments for regrowing hair and as little as three to six months, so you can see a fuller head of hair like Bobo in the old days by fall.
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Individual results may vary based on studies of topical and oral monoxidil and finasteride. Prescription required. See website for full details, restrictions and important safety information. Well, how many times have you heard reports where they go up a slope very quickly and they seem to be like grabbing trees to pull themselves up while their legs are propelling them up. Their upper limbs, you know, their fore limbs are grabbing trees to pull themselves up to achieve a lot of speed.
And that's really not that different from just climbing a face or a tree itself. You know, that's still climbing.
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's pretty much all the reports. When I go up with really steep grid, so they grab on a vegetation, I know I do. Yeah, anything with hands would, I'd imagine, or yeah, front claws whatever.
Oh yeah, hands are way better for that sort of thing. Yeah. I think a good lesson for any bigfooter is to try to put themselves in the same situation as a sasquatch to see what you do as a habitual biped while going up similar to substrate. Just a few few months ago, I was out at the Outer Rim and I found the Java his footprint, you know, the seventeen inch print that we nicknamed the animal Jaba out there, and it went up a little embankment on the side of an old logging road.
You know.
Thee bankment's probably six eight feet, you know, And I started climbing up into the woods or whatever, but you know it, there was a footprint on the diagonal substrate, I guess. And when I went up it, I put my hand down to the left and I stopped because ahead of me was something else. And I looked at it and I recognized that, oh my god, that is a handprint. And when I kind of looked at my own situation, I was literally putting my hand on the ground at that same moment, in the same sort of way,
going the same direction up the same embankment. It's like, study yourself, study how you move in the woods, and then you'll see how they kind of do too, although just realize they're way better at it, and their arms are different in their hands and feet are different stuff,
but we kind of do the same thing. So I think, to get back to the tree question, think about how you may climb a tree, and especially like as a young kid or whatever, when you probably did that thing more often, how did you do it, and just amplify that, you know, exponentially, and that's probably how they do it as well.
Yeah, I saw clown trees, do you Yeah.
Why is it that I was always up in the trees then and finding Bigfoot because.
They were looking at it little ones. Okay, that's a great workout.
Totally is Yeah, because there's consequences for not doing it well gravity. Yeah, you know, it's funny. I so much more afraid of heights now than I was during finding Bigfoot.
I'm way more afraid of hutch now. Yeah.
I have a tough time getting close to the edge of the roof and whatnot. You know, cleaning the gutters and stuff scares the willies out of me.
Yeah. Yeah, Well, because you know, you know what can happen. You know, if you get hurt, it's not gonna be better than a week. It's gonna be like a months. Yeah. Yeah.
And of course I was in my forties on finding Bigfoot, now in mid fifties. So maybe I'm just wiser. I don't know. I don't know if I'm just wiser or what's your either one, I'll take it.
Probably the same thing.
Well, should we go to the next voicemail?
I think it's an appropriate time.
Alrighty Cliff and Bobo, this is Michael Perry aka Pirate Mike.
Huge fans watched.
Your shows, been paying it two to your podcasts, and dab on a lot of other stuff. Y'all do quick questions, So bigfoot sasquatch swim's been caught swimming? Any chance that there's like a nearby island that they may have swam to that's like off the coast of the United States or anywhere else, Just like kind of island news or possibilities.
Also, have you ever heard of the Alabama white Thing?
Happy to be from Culoman, Alabama.
It's kind of popular and certain spat especially with the elder generations.
I'm just curious. I hope you'll have a fantastic day.
And Matt Pruitt, you're awesome, by the way, y'all have a good night.
All of the islands off of British Columbia and Alaska and all that, and like most of those will have a sasquatch on them at some point or another. The huge it sound for Yeah, San Juan Islands or wherever. Yeah, there are sasquatch reports on a lot of those little islands. And of course Robert Alley his excellent book Raincoast Sasquatch is a wonderful source for reports of sasquatches swimming. Yeah, they are absolutely on islands, and they didn't they weren't
born there necessarily. I mean they could have been, but you know, sasquatches move around, so absolutely they are swimming around and they are getting on land and exploiting whatever resources might be on those islands.
Yeah, we got Robert Ali lined up to come on next week, Oh do we Yeah, that's good to know. Okay, Yeah, they call him deadheads. They'd see him. They swim up to the Queens Shawotte what do they call it? How to g lie now? Queen Sharlotte Islands off Canada. I think it's a seventy mile or eighty mile open ocean swim.
They've seen them out there. They call them deadheads. They thought they were bodies floating out there to see a head bob and then they would they pulled up to it in the boat that they would dive underwater and swim away. Yeah.
I think deadheads is the term they use for trees or logs that are mostly submerged but you only see the top of them. Yeah, as they as they float. Yeah, and then the heads a sasquatch heads sticking out of the water would appear the same way, especially at night, of course. So yeah, now the second half of that question was the old white thing or something that I'm not familiar with the local terminologies and legends and stuff about.
Yeah, a friend of mine, a guy named Bill White, who wrote under the pen name Talbrenco, investigated a lot of those reports. You can find some of those, I think some of them are on the BFR's website and several are on Bigfit encounters dot com. And then he he was going to publish a series of books he'd done research for decades, and he only published one before the end of his life. But it's called the I think it's the Southern Bigfoot Files. What's going to be
the name of the series. But the only one he published is the Alabama Book of a number of cases that he investigated, including some around that Coulmon area, And you know, there was a lighter colored individual that people saw, and so yeah, the local name was the Alabama White thang. Nice say that proper proof thing, the Alabama white Thing.
Yeah, that's it.
Being from Georgia, you're the only one who actually qualified to say it appropriately here.
Well, Bubbo told me I'd turned my back on my people because I don't have a thick Southern accent.
Come up some day.
Did you ever have a thick accent like that?
No? Not really.
You know what's really funny. I totally forgot to tell this on our Crypto Coon recap. But you know, I grew up very close to where Deliverance was filmed, and I would always when I lived around the country, people be like, what's in North Georgia And I'm like, well, there's two things, Deliverance and cabbage Patch And if you know either of those things, then you know where I'm from.
And one of my best friend's mom, his mom was an elementary school teacher and taught the banjo kid from Deliverance, and he was at Cryptocoon with Cliff and I No way, Yes, he was there, oh way, So that was super cool. So I got to tell him like, wait, here's like, did you guys talk to him?
Yeah?
I talked to him a bit and he just smiled and said, yeah a lot, And then I talked to him again as he was leaving. And as he was leaving, I kind of got the sense that he was hard of hearing and couldn't tell what I was saying. So then I realized, like, oh, he probably had no idea what I was saying in that vendor room, which is way busier and way louder, because I was starting to tell him like, hey, man, I grew up outside of Helen,
like right next door to Clayton, where you're from. And I said, do you He was like yeah, And I was like, do you remember elementary school teacher Ms McConnell And he was like yeah. And I was like, well, that's my best friend's mom and he was like yeah. So in retrospect, I don't know if he caught anything that I was saying because it was pretty loud in there.
But it was cool to meet him. And I saw a lot of folks getting like pictures and stuff signed and things like that, but instruments, no, but I saw a lot of that. You know, there's always musicians there, so they were coming up to him and playing there like banjos or fiddles and guitars and things like that. He seemed pretty amused by it. But that was a funny moment for sure.
It was classic, dude, I've always wanted to meet that guy.
I think this is pretty public knowledge because it was in a documentary. But he's, as far as I understand, he's still a greeter at the Walmart in Clayton, Georgia, which is in Raven County, which is where Deliverance was filmed. So finny pigeons find themselves visiting the Walmart for supplies in Squatchy, Raven County, Georgia, and in Clayton, Georgia. Go say hey to Billy.
He's gonna be like seventy five at the least, I imagine he.
Probably would you say, Cliffy, maybe his sixties.
Maybe, I don't know. Seventy five seems a little old for what I saw. You know, I didn't speak to him. I didn't have any conversations with him or anything like that. Just never ran across him, really, and I was tracked to my table a lot. But he didn't look that old to me.
He's got to be at least seventy because I was filming what seventy three or something.
I'm afraid I don't know that.
Let me consult the Google. So, yeah, Billy was born in nineteen fifty six. And you're right, so that film was made in seventy two. Oh Okay, so he'll be seventy next year. When I was in high school, I knew u ned Baty's son. He went to the high school with the singer and the vocalist and the Horace
Dlores my band at the time. We played parties and he'd be there and he was telling me that about once a week or so, somebody drives down the road at midnight yelling sooo week that really loud in front of their house.
Looked like we got us a sow instead of a bore. Do you know where there against that sapling boy? Yeah, anyway, back to the Alabama white thing, still there's still a.
White ones soon to this day, there's like people have seen two or three at a time down there, like it seems like a little gene pool of them.
Yeah, that was a good que question, Michael, And thanks for the kind of words and supporting the podcast. Hopefully that answers the question. Go check out Talbrinco's book. It's on Amazon. I will link it in the show notes because it's the holiday season. And so here is the next voicemail.
Bhi, Cliff, Bobo, Matt. It's Rob here from Leicester in the UK. I've got a message for Cliff. I've just watched a YouTube video by Evolution Soup with Carrie Mongel and she was talking about the recent Paranthropus boisee feet and handbones found in Kenya, and there's some analysis been done on the footbones that have been found that seem to indicate that this species had a transverse arch in
their foot. So, because Cliff has put forward Paranthapus boisi is a possible progenitor for Sasquatch, I was wondering what Cliff thinks about the fact that this species appears to have a transverse arch, and yet the sasquatch doesn't discuss Guys, Thank you very much, love the show.
Googoo.
All extent apes have a transverse arch. I think I think he's sneaking of a longitudinal arch.
There's two. Yeah, the transverse arch goes transversely from like across like left right across your foot basically, and the longitudinal arch is the one that goes front to back that most people picture when they see an arch in the foot, and an arch in the foot of course is very very helpful, you know, for supporting because arches
are extraordinarily strong. That's why Romans built doorways and that bridges and stuff with arches underneath them because they're very very strong, so a little bit of an arch like that would be expected like that. Now, I have read the paper about Paranthepus feet, and they do. There are some comments in there, kind of caveats in there that that they're they're different in various ways, and and the gate would have been different, and then the structure of
the foot seems to be a little bit different. I'd have to go back and find the exact language, but it seemed to me that there is some room in that interpretation that might indicate a much flatter foot, so to speak. But a transverse arch is a different structure in the foot, and I wouldn't be terribly surprised of it, you know. Now, of course, I'm not a foot expert in any sort of way. I'm a big foot nerd and a student of the subject, so I have a
lot of learning to do. And just just to kind of emphasize that point that I have a lot of learning to do, I am studying the foot more closely than I ever have before, especially after inheriting doctor Meldrum's materials, and literally last night I opened a box that I bought for the museum that has an articulated human foot connected to the leg bones, so I can study how
these things are pieced together. You know, I'm trying to literally last night I was looking at that transverse arch and what that means and how that translates into the bone structure, as well as the longitude in the large and of course this thing's articulated, and I think I might play with it a little bit to see if I can maybe articulate it differently. So what I what I want to do with this articulated foot skeleton is
see how the bones interact without the arch. So I think I need to might maybe take it apart and and fuss with it a bit. I also hope and maybe you know, maybe somebody out there is amazing at three D art and all that sort of stuff and
three D printing. What I'd like to do eventually is there's been some efforts by some people, and this is not exactly to your question here, and I apologize about that, but I have this idea where maybe we can do three D scans of the bones of the foot and then on the computer change them, because you can't just use you can't just blow those up to a sasquatch size because they're proportionally different and thicker and all this
other stuff, and the lengths are different. But if we can use one of doctor Meldrum's inferred morphology diagrams of the foot skeleton and then scan the human skeleton of the foot and then on the computer, you know, just basically change it. And you know, because I do this all the time with photographs and things, you accidentally change the aspect ratio, you know, where it doesn't look this
like the faces become squished, either vertically or horizontal. I think that you can we can probably do that in three dimensions and then take a human scan and then make it squatter and thicker and whatever else on a computer, and then print those things up and then have a three D scan of all the foot skeleton bones you know that the approximate appropriate size, and then rearticulate that into a sasquatch foot structure. That's kind of this long term you know, pine the sky. That would be cool
if I could do that project for the museum. Yeah, a transverse arch is different than the longitudinal arch. I wouldn't be a bit surprised but I also wouldn't be a bit surprised if it's a lot lower than in humans. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. Will be right back after these messages.
And so this is the final voicemail of this round and an often asked question, an often addressed question, but a perennial one nonetheless.
Hi, guys, this is Joe from Hershey, Pennsylvania. Listen to the podcast regularly. Hey have a question for you, guys. Why do you think the federal government downplays the existence
of bigfoot and tries to deny its existence. But on the other hand, official documents from the government, for like army manuals say don't be surprised if you run into these things in the woods in certain areas, and like park rangers are told to deny, you know, any or downplay any appearances of bigfoot and state parks and such.
Wondering if do you think it's so that they don't encourage poachers to go after them, or is it that they want to protect the logging industry, because if they acknowledge bigfoot, then it's an endangered species and loggers can't log anymore or be interested to know what your opinion is. Thanks a lot by.
All the above, and then some Yeah, they they're worried about rural property prices going down, like you know, like you know what mom, monster kids going out with monsters. You know that about twenty acres forty acres or whatever. You now, if you can see that getting hurt. And the camping industry, fishing, hiking, tourism, they have big impacts all the way around. I think. I mean, they're some places would get you know, there'd be people flooding it
to go see big fish. So I'm sure that you think more of a structured kind of thing, or most peo would want to most peopoul want to avoid them, you know, they would want to camp and have one to show up at their camp or something. Yeah.
I questioned the assumption that the government is telling them to downplay things. I question that assumption. I don't think they care. I think that individually, people who work in the government at various levels may or may not think sasquatches are real. But I don't think there's any I certainly I'm confident. Actually there's no mandate from top to bottom to say that this is what you need to
do for bigfoot stuff. And I know that because I've had the Forest Service here in Oregon report citing reports to me to follow up on because they don't care. Not two months ago, I was in the Forest Service office applying for a permit so I can harvest tree breaks and display them in my museum. I'm still waiting because the government shutdown kind of screwed that over a little bit, forcing me to be more patient than I
wanted to be. But anyway, when I was there, I was talking to the people at the Forest Service office, and just I was talking about bigfoot to them, and like literally I showed him a picture on my phone and he says, oh yeah, so and so in the office he has that. He knows a guy who got it said, oh yeah, that's cool. We talked about that picture up by Ripplebrook for a while, you know, so, well, these are pretty interesting things, and these tree breaks, I've
been finding sasquatch footprints next to them and stuff. And literally the woman at the office is, you know, to convince us we're believers, we know, and they're they're approving my permit, you know. I mean, I haven't got word of it yet, but like there's no reason for them to deny it. I don't expect them to deny it. I got permit through the National Forest to run expeditions, you know, many many years in a row, like three
years in a row or something like that. There is I'm confident there is no mandate from top to bottom to deny Sasquatches. I think there are individuals in the Forest Service or government structure somewhere who think they're real, and other individuals who don't. Looking at specific cases like the Army Corps of Engineer manual that you mentioned, I forgot why that guy included Sasquatch, but I think it was a little tongue in cheek. But at the same time,
it was kind of cool that they included it. As far as things like they say the Blue Mountain stuff, you know, I'm neck deep in the Blue Mountain stuff right now. With the Paul Freeman deal. When tracks were discovered inside of Mill Creek Watershed at two or three different locations, they called Joel Harden up the track or to come out, and Joel says this in his book that he was asked to come out to show that
these are fakes, and he did. He went out there, and he made a whole reason, a whole list of reasons why they're not real, and the Forest Service people didn't. They agree that, yeah, these aren't real because of these reasons. And okay, yeah, if you're tracking humans, that makes perfect sense that these things that these reasons are good enough to say that they're not human prints. But sasquatches aren't humans.
And most of the reasons that he listed are the things that we expect from a sasquatch trackway, which is interesting, you know. And Joel's great tracker, I mean, Matt Prout took lessons. I took a class from him, like he's a great, great human tracker, of course, But they're not humans, and their feet are not human feet. They don't work in the same way. But I think in that case they needed they didn't they didn't want the attention. And
again Joel wrote this in his book. Mister Harden wrote this in his book that I guess they got media attention like the Big Three. I guess at the time, CBS, NBC, and ABC they were applying for permits to come in and film inside the watershed. Now, this watershed is the source of water for Walla Walla. We have another watershed I talk about all the time called Bull Run Watershed outside of Portland, and those watersheds supply the water source for the entire city, and so no one's allowed in
there because they don't want anybody polluting the water. You know, it's for national security or national insecurity reasons, either one same thing. And they don't want people inside these areas, and also for wildlife reasons and all that sort of stuff. But they don't want people in these off limits areas. And to broadcast widely that really cool footprints but from sasquatches were found, it's going to bring LOOKI loose, it's going to bring tourists. It's going to bring people sneaking
into the watershed. And these are highly protected areas for a variety of reasons. So I think in specific cases you can look at it like that. But I strongly question this idea that the government is hiding this stuff from you. I just don't see the evidence for it,
and I don't see the results of that mandate. And I literally talk to Forest Service people pretty frequently that either tell me there's stories about seeing or hearing something or oh like at the Forest Service office age always Yeah, we believe you know or so and so you know has this picture, and I hear that stuff a fair amount.
So I just don't think that that is true. So whatever that's worth, agreed. Well, this we'll move on to the written questions here. In this written question we've gotten a few along these lines. This is probably just one of several of the examples that's being referenced here, but I will toss this one to you for discussion.
Okay, Well, if Bobo has his bifocals on, he canna read this one for us. Did we lose Bobo?
He's muted.
Oh, he's muted. Okay, so you want to just read it. I guess I'll go ahead and read it. Yeah. This question is from Chris Olin. I am listening to Octagon Immortal speaking about spirals in the dirt around Bobo's footprint and why finding Bigfoot really got shut down? Is this real? When in the world is Octagon Immortal?
It's probably one of like many YouTube channels that shared You remember a few weeks ago, there were these AI generated clips that went around that was like Cliff Berrickman finally tells the truth about why finding Bigfoot ind Yeah, Yeah, that was email to me a couple of times, and I go, dude, it's on the internet.
Don't believe it.
And there's a bunch of variations of these videos where it's like, you know, you guys got too close to the truth, or you stumbled into an area that you weren't allowed to be in and that the government intervened, and that Finding Bigfoot got footage that it wasn't allowed
to release. And you know, there's multiple variations of this theme of this idea that Finding Bigfoot got too close to the truth and was shut down and it became like not quite viral, but there was a bunch of them that just popped up out of nowhere for like a week or two.
Well geez, yeah, I only caught that one, of course, because I don't pay attention to that stuff. But it's ridiculous, man, And Bobo's still muted. I love his point on this because I don't know what he's talking about as far as spirals and the dirt and stuff. But the reason Finding I'll tell you now, the reason Finding Bigfoot got shut down is that in the what nine years that we're filming, and we start filming the pilot in twenty ten.
We kind of the show went down in twenty seventeen or eighteen or eighteen, I think it was sisp nine years. You know, during that nine year period, cable television lost about sixty five percent of their viewership to streaming at the bottom line, you know, that's it. And sixty five percent of the viewership means sixty five percent of the ad revenue. And we were an expensive show, you know, like we've been on a long time, so people were earning money at that time. There were sixteen of us
oftentimes on the road together. That's cast and crew, and that's a very very expensive show. And at the end of the day, they're saying, why are we throwing this money at this show when we could just make another show and then pay them less and have a smaller
crew and do blah blah blah blah blah. And that's what they did, essentially, So we got canceled, and which is fine, you know that I think the show had run its course anyway, and they went off to do other things, I guess, you know, Discovery Networks on all their affiliates and whatever else. That's why we got canceled, you know. And I remember during the show, they were saying, oh, you know, I bet if you film one, then they're going to be you know, Discovery is going to be
shut down by the government. They're not going to show. Said no, that's absolutely ridicul absolutely ridiculous. If we filmed when you would have seen it one hundred percent. We were trying really hard, and they wanted us to you know, and I know that because we used to hang out with like the CEO of Animal Planet, you know, you know those folks. I never did meet the actual boss of all Discovery Networks in general, but Marge Marjorie was Yeah, she was great. You know, I knew the president of
Animal Planet. It was neat, Yeah, and she was rooting for us. Then Keith Hoffman and all those folks at the network. They wanted us to succeed desperately. Yeah. But all of these paranoid fantasies that are out there on the internet, you can safely ignore them. Honestly, you can safely ignore all that stuff. I just told you the
real reason why we went off the air. Everything else is made up paranoid nonsense and in general, you know, all these fear mongering, paranoid frankly delusional conspiracy theories about finding Bigfoot and all these things and thoughts about Barrickman's a paid government misinformant or whoever. It's all paranoid nonsense to think that like, yeah, Moneymaker and I or whoever else or Bobo are are you know, government shills and stuff like. It's like, like us, we're kind of a mess.
Like they wouldn't they wouldn't get us involved in that stuff.
Man, No one would believe that.
But no, that's just that people. People do believe that all that that we're all that. I know, it'sulous, Oh that we're a mass that's because they don't know us. That whole conspiratorial frame of thinking is not only damaging to the community, it's also damaging to you personally, your own psychological well being.
I gotta find that specific Octagon Immortal clip because I'm I'm very curious to know what it says about spirals in the dirt around Bobo's footprints.
Yeah, what does that mean? Like a vortex?
Did you open up a vortex when you stepped in some in something?
Bobo? It's not a great way.
Couldn't have been, No, man, must have been. There must have been the nor Cow White thing.
There's a couple of twenty minute ones about each of those, Like, were they the truth about Finding Bigfoot? It's like I thought it was supposed to be comedy, and then I guess it was supposed to be real.
Well, people will believe anything, and they're more than happy to be scared, is what it comes down to. And that's a bottom line. All these conspiracy folks or whatever, they're trying to scare you because they're scared themselves, or more practically speaking, they're trying to get your clicks to earn revenue. Now, mind you, conspiracies do happen, because the definition of conspiracy is two people getting together to plan something. Absolutely,
conspiracies happen. All we conspired to organize today's podcast. But at the same time, is Finding Bigfoot involved in a conspiracy colin? Absolutely, that's that's ridiculous. Yeah, it was a fun TV show and they accidentally hired real bigfooters and we cause them a lot of trouble because of that. You know, that's the bottom line pretty much, pretty much.
I just summed up Finding Bigfoot. It was a fun TV show and they hired real bigfooters and they didn't think that we were going to care so much, and we forced them to do it for real. That's it. Yep, we can move on, I think, so stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. We'll be right back after these messages.
Let me grab the next written question here. We can help out this lovely.
Listener, see Vicky would When I was in third grade in nineteen seventy eight, my dad took me to the local high school one night where they were showing a movie about Bigfoot. From that night, I've always believed they were real animals. My question is, do you have any idea what movie this could have done? It's been driving me crazy not knowing. I would like to see it again. Thanks.
I think if it's not Boggy Creek, it has to be The Mysterious Monsters, although that was seventy five, but it could have still been.
Think for the Manute, Bigfoot or Sasquatch, All of the Cowboys, Sasquatch, the Legend of Bigfoot.
I bet it was that one. I think that came out in that same year, seventy seven, so yeah, pretty close.
I think that's probably the best. But if not Boggie, and a lot of those are online. I think.
I know for certain the documentary The Mysterious Monsters is on YouTube, and I bet you the Sasquatch the Legend of Bigfoot is probably on YouTube or two B or one of those free channels. So go watch them all, VICKI, and see which one sparks a memory.
Yeah, yeah, just checked that legend, the Sasquatch legend of Bigfoot. It was this nineteen seventy six movie. So in nineteen seventy eight that might have been enough time where they were like releasing reels of it to be shown and that sort of stuff. You know, Yeah, it was.
It took local high school, so it wasn't a theater or anything, so I could have been anything that came out prior.
Yeah, of course. And of course the Sasquatch. The Legend of Bigfoot was not a huge you know, you know, lions Gate Eyes release from huge theater, like, you know, it wasn't like Jaws or something. Ron Olsen who still lives today in Oregon, he's kind of a small time producer and whatnot, and he was a guy behind all that.
So it was a smaller level production and I can see how that might have been the film just because the timing works, the size of the production works, they probably would have released reels of it to be seen in smaller venues like that. Yeah, so then, of course Boggy Creek is also a reasonable choice as well, because that's just a few years before that. But I might get my money would be on one of those two. But I'm not a betting man, bobo is.
I didn't bet when Barbers hadn't been on one game.
Really I would have. I would have bet you did, and I would have lost.
Yeah, I'm not gaaling on football anymore. Too many God calls.
He's an ascended being now I am.
Well, like that Raider game the night or day the Raiders kicked that field goal instead of going for a touchdown, like a few seconds left, like just to cover the spread. That was totally like that was so suspect.
Oh I heard it was football season, the big game, Cliff, the big football game. Yeah, no, bigfoots, don't lie to me.
Let me grab the next Year's another finding bigfoot oriented question for you.
Oh, this one comes from Lake and Arnold. I know that name. Do you guys keep in contact with past witnesses from the show. Has anything interesting happened with any of them? Yeah, some of them, some of them are. Just the other night I got, like two nights ago, I got a text from Robbie, the guy who saw one out here. He's one of my witnesses, saw one out here off the Sandy River. Yeah, so every once in a while I hear from folks.
So yeah, I talked to Brenda Harris a couple of nights ago.
Oh that's cool. How's she doing. I haven't heard from her in a long time.
She's going to get She has done with Phoenix, visiting family for the holidays, Thanksgiving, and she's heading back to Sinnesday. There's been a huge one about an hour northwest of her place in the Arizona side. As I would just seeing a giant male one like kind of grayish white, I guess, mm hmm. I still I can't in touch with like several several witnesses from the show.
Yeah, for sure. Sometimes I get texts that I didn't enter a name for and I just get this random text and I have to go back through the other text to find out who is this? Who is I can't figure out who this is? And it turns out as a witness or something. I've just met Terry all the time. Hey, bro, yeah exactly. I haven't talked to you for a while, and I said, yeah, who are you? But I'm not gonna I'm always so embarrassed about asking
who you are? Who are you? Yeah, I feel terrible about it, but I just met too many people.
Well I was ready. H initials are like John, you know, like John Hell's John.
Mm hmm.
I just put a description there, like, you know, like John from liquor store or something, or.
I know you're walking the straight and narrow like me these days, bubblah. But I would imagine from your wild days that John from the liquor store does not narrow it down at all.
Sure that all right?
Here is the next question for you their bobes.
Sean Sean hemm is these?
I think it's Hermes. I think it's kind of hard to see that are with that tiny fog. I think it's hermiz or Hermes.
I'm not wearing my glasses. You're right, it's Hermes. Love the show. Do thermal imagers pick up the heat signature from footprints? Has there ever been a thought of following the heat signature that a footprint possibly gives off to see where a potential bigfoot may walk off if it's spotted on camera thanks to the great work. Yeah, they do. It depends on how you do your thermalist, but yeah, they totally do. Yeah, we tried that tracked to other
animals that way. I've never found big footprints who are fresh enough hot enough to really follow. And other times where they have walked, I've seen, like like with that one when I was with Tyler on Spooky Mountain down there whatever it was called, down in Alabama, where at Peed you can see where at Peed was all hot, but then where it walked it was just barely barely visible, like like a tiny dinnon was gone within like a minute or two. Yeah.
Of course thermal imagers see heat, so you have to be there pretty quick, otherwise the heat will dissipate into the environment.
They're laying down or sitting somewhere for a while, then I'll say hot, hot for a while.
Well, yeah, but it will eventually dissipate into the environment. So it's really dependent upon the environment and how wet it is and all that sort of stuff. I do know of one situation with a former podcast guest of ours, Michael from up on the Olympic Peninsula. He followed some
tracks with his thermal imager immediately after somebody's observation. I can't remember if it was his wife's or his gardeners or whatever, but he followed some tracks into the woods with the thermal imager and he said that they were visible. But I have never had the opportunity to do such a thing, and I would love it, of course. So he just got to get there quick. Yeah, like within minutes, not like within an hour, but within minutes.
Oh yeah.
This next question here is from Christopher king Tero. I've always thought of Sasquatch as a quote unquote ap survivalist. What do you think it knows and understands about the environment that we humans don't. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this A lot, Yeah, a lot. I mean, they make their living there. You know, it's kind of like saying, what do you know about the inside of
your car that they wouldn't. You know, they have such a different experience with the environment because so much of their life has to be about foraging and finding food and whatnot. You know, where the delicious things are that they like to eat. You know, just from looking at foraging sites alone in the past couple of years. You know, they know that they can dig around in these seedars for whatever might be living in there, where there's termites
or ants or grubs of some sort. I've seen lots of examples of overturned logs that are pulled off like big logs too, you know, two or three feet like water logged logged logs foot and a half two feet two and a half feet in diameter, just moved to the other side of the road. You know that kind of stuff with again sasquatch tracks associate with it. So I'm pretty confident it was them. I'm sure that they know about micro climates.
I know that.
And then when Nicos saw the one up at Easter Island back a few years ago, it was a very hot day and I think it was in August. I remember it was a very hot day, and Nico noted they just kind of chose a place randomly to get out into the woods after work one day, that no intentions of actually big footing, which is of course when you see these things when you accidentally run across them.
He noted that the area that he was in was significantly cooler, like five ten degrees cooler than everywhere else. And I think that sasquatches are clued into how micro climates and air currents work that might give them afford
them a little bit more comfort. I think that they're clued into things like water sources, I temporary water sources like up at Ape Canyon for example, the Ape Creek you know where it feeds off of Ape Glacier, you know, which makes the whole canyon there that that water isn't available all day. It's only in the afternoon when the glacier starts melting. That's when the water starts flowing. So
in the morning you can't get water. You have to go there late enough that the glacier had an opportunity. I bet they're clued in to that sort of stuff too.
And postally, their senses are so much stronger than ours, like their sense of smell, their sense of hearing, their vision is all superior to ours, and they're going to interact different that way too. Yeah.
I think they have a pretty decent three D map of their environment as well, where they know like the quickest way over this ridge or whatever down into the next valley and they I think they have all the old logging roads, probably pretty wired, because I'm finding a lot of tracks on logging roads, so I know that they use those things, like the ones that are abandoned are barely visible. You know they're using those sort of
paths of least resistance. They got a five d cents, Cliff, what's the fifth dimension?
I don't got time to explain it to you, but but I'll go.
Study those spirals under your footprints to learn more about that.
I'll tell you what it is. It's it's it's the same reason that they hang around Bobo so often is that they can sense the microclimate where it's cooler, and they can also sense that Bobo is signifiquantly cooler than most. That's the fifth dimension, the coolness dimension.
There you go, thank you something I'll understand, nerd nerd. Oh, yeah, who's wearing your glasses?
I'm not wearingless so I couldn't read that guy's name.
And so we'll pop this one in as the final written submission. Here we get a lot of questions along this line, but this is the latest iteration of such.
Let's see George, eto have you guys ever, considered using AI to make pictures of a witnesses experiences. Witness Kadak chat gpt to make a picture based on what they saw, kind of like a mugshot. Keep up the good work. I know people are doing that. I haven't done that, but I know people are.
Pete Travers was using digital art to create witness sketches and they were fantastic, just absolutely cool stuff. It's really neat, and then he'd work with the witnesses back and forth and whatnot. I'm not sure that AI is there yet, honestly, just because, as you know, they're scrubbing the internet for general things and using it for, you know, something to give you back, you know. So I don't know. I'm not familiar enough with AI visual things at all.
You know.
I use AI to proof read my stuff to make sure there's no spelling errors, you know. That's as far as I've come our grammar errors, that sort of thing. But as far as the visual stuff, I'm not there. So I won't be doing that. But I guess if you're really really loved AI, that'd be a fun project
to work on. Yeah, I know the AI is very very good at making realistic looking things, but I'm not sure how if it's advanced to the place where you can tweak it to say no, the nose was you know, a different shape or something like that, yet, I'm not sure how great that would be, but I don't know. We'll see where we get.
You know.
Well, we do have a bevy of questions from the beloved Pigeons to finalize the Q and as for the year. So if you guys are ready, we can head over in that direction that pigeons will get on Thursday.
I think yeah, we're ready to go. Well for tuning in people, We appreciate it. Hope you had a great year. Hope you can see a squatch this next year coming up hopefully. Yeah, we really appreciate your support. Hit like share, spread the word until next year, y'all, keep it squatchy.
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond. If you liked what you heard, please rate and review us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond. That's an n in the middle and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag Bigfoot and Beyond.