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And now you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Boobo Fay.
Greetings, Bilbo, how you doing? Man?
Good? It's up Cliff.
All sorts of stuff just up to my neck and various things, various Bigfoot related you know, distractions all distracted me from the other Bigfoot related things I need to get done. What about you.
I just got back last night from going down seeing my mom and brothers and stuff, and yeah, just getting back in the swing of things.
Nice swinging good. Well, we have a guest today. Should just hop on that.
Yeah, yeah, I don't have anything new to that.
All right, very good, very good. Our guest today has been Bigfoot in a long time. I don't know how long. I know very little about this guy. Right here, there's a really really nice cast out of Oklahoma that this guy pulled a number of years ago. I think it's absolutely fantastic. Matt Prouton, He's been a friend of yours for a long time.
Is that corraged.
Oh yeah, I've known Joel for like fourteen years. We met he attended to be a FRORO expedition that I led in southeast Oklahoma in twenty eleven, and then we've been very close friends and field partners ever since. Like pretty much anytime I've been in that part of the country, I've been out in the field with Joel. So we've had a lot of experiences together out of the field over the years.
Fantastic. This is Joel Thomas out of Oklahoma. Joel. Thanks so much for coming on the podcast with us.
Thanks for having me. Been looking forward to this talk.
Yeah, thanks for coming aboard. Matt Speaks Holady. So I'm looking forward to getting some info out of some knowledge.
Oh.
I don't think that I'm going to be able to say anything that you don't already know, but we'll see.
All right, You've been working a lot of different cases, and certainly you know them a lot better than any of us here would. So how long have you been doing this big foot thing?
So I kind of got into it, like a lot of people, you know, just by watching Monster Quest and Unsolved Mysteries and anything that had a sasquatch related stuff on TV. But when I grew up in northern California and then moved to Oklahoma and around two thousand and then I found out that they're around here, which kind of blew my mind because I was always of the thought that it was a Pacific Northwest kind of thing.
So funny enough watching Finding Bigfoot one night, you know, at the end it said, hey, sign up for these BFRO expeditions and stuff. So I got online and I was like, oh, my goodness. Told my wife I said there's one here in Oklahoma, and she's like, oh, you got to go to it. And she ended up getting me it for my birthday. And so that's kind of how it all started and how I got to meet
Matt Bruit. You know, I guess I hit the lottery in that respect, because no other better expedition to go on than Matt Breud.
So where'd you live in Norco?
I was around Well, the specific town was called Loyalton. It's a little south of Trucky or a little north of Trucky, I'm sorry, And uh, kind of in the Tahoe area.
So oh, so you're right, you're in prime squash hab attack grown.
Uh didn't know that though.
Uh so, tell us about that first expedition that you went on, like, what did anything actually happen? Did you hear or see anything? And tell us about that.
Well, not, I wasn't in the group, but uh Matt had a group of folks with him that we believe was approached and maybe heard some vocalizations one night, maybe a whistle, and so it was. It wasn't a whole lot, but uh boy, it was so much fun. It was a lot of fun.
So if you didn't have the bug already, you certainly got it theresolutely.
And uh so I knew immediately that I had to get some friends involved in this so I can get out, and uh that's exactly what I did. So Matt got me on taking reports for the BFRO, and uh that kind of put me on some areas and kind of going through some witnesses and you know, just kind of calling through and I ended up getting quite a few
pretty good witnesses. And and there was a couple that were like within a quarter mile of each other and both had prints, one had a sighting, and so I immediately kind of feeling this might be a really good area. And so I ended up bringing some friends and kind of frequenting that area as much as I could, and we ended up started getting quite a bit of activity.
Where was that at?
The closest town is Tallaheena, Oklahoma, And so it's a little outside of Tallahena in the mountains.
It's right there in the Washington it's close to Hannaby or Yeah.
So how far of a drive is that for you? How long does it take you out there?
It takes me a little over an hour.
That's not bad at all.
No, And we have some spots that are even closer that we've had some pretty good activity.
This one particular spot that you mentioned here, was it one of the first BFRO areas you started looking into after you started taking reports.
This is the first witness led area that we started to or I started to kind of really look into because they were the most credible witnesses that I had talked to. Of course, I had quite a few witnesses that wouldn't meet with me. You know, they wanted to tell me their story and they wanted to get that off their chest, but they really didn't want to pursue
it any deeper than that. But this particular area had two different witnesses, Like I said, they had contacted me and they proved to be very, very valuable.
Well, what was their story then? What would intrigue you in Because you know, if you're a BFR investigator, especially in a state like Oklahoma, Yeah, you kind of have your choice of various witnesses to choose from who you want to reach out to. What was it about one of their sightings or encounters or something going on, like basically tell us what was going on there that drew you to start wanting to look into this particular area.
Yeah, So the first witness, his name was Josh. He had a little medical issue that he couldn't work real well. So every day when his daughter got home from school, they would go on a walk because he wasn't supposed to be off by himself very much because he had seizures and stuff. And they'd go on a walk and they would walk down this, for lack of better term, a whole little old log road, and they would walk to this pond and it'd get him some exercise and
they would spend some time together. And one particular day they went out there to this pond and he said when they got there, he immediately seen something go down on the other side of the pond, and his daughter just kept playing. She didn't notice it, and so he's like, oh, I think that was a bear. So he's like, I'm just going to sit here and wait for it to
come out, you know, because it didn't leave. It went down in these reads that were in the pond, and pretty soon, all of a sudden he noticed a rock comes thrown tossed into the water, which got his daughter's attention, and pretty soon another rock come out, and he's like, what in the heck, you know, he's thinking, you know, bears can't throw rocks. What's going on here? And about that time, it stood up and it ran over the
pond dam and just went crashing through the woods. He's like, you know, making all kinds of ruckus and noise, and so he sent in this report. Well, it was about two or three weeks before I can get over there to meet with him. By the time I got over there to meet with him, he's like, hey, I had another encounter. And I said, oh yeah, he says, yeah,
same place, same thing. We were walking this day. We were a little later getting out there, so it was almost dusk and some started paralleling us walking in the woods next to us, and my daughter got scared, and all of a sudden, it started throwing rocks at us. But he said, this time it wasn't like what was happening in the pond. It wasn't just tossing the rocks in.
He said, these were zinging, you know. He said they'd throw them much harder, and so I immediately decided we needed to leave, and so we started walking back to the house, and it just followed them all the way to this one spot where there was a dump. And when it got to the dump, you know, it's just a place in the woods where folks would throw their garbage, you know, and or like their metal garbage and stuff like that, not so much food garbage. But once it got to
that little clearing, it stopped and left them alone. So it basically escorted them ount and I was like wow. I was like, man, this is like all classic stuff here, and so we you know, I did that investigation, and literally three days later, another guy sent me in the report where he told me he was I was like, man, this might be really close to Josh. But he told me to come a whole different route. So I followed his route because I don't want to miss his house.
And then I come up to his road. I was like, ah, I gotta keep going. I got to see how far Josh lives from here. And literally it is one turn, one turn on the black top and boom, there's Josh's house. So I went back and met with this fella, and he was a preacher and he would was building a gate to his place, and he noticed these footprints in the mud and they had about a six foot stride.
Maybe I think that's what he told me. I have to look back at my notes, but and there was three of them come out of the woods, walked the road for three steps, and then went back in the woods. And I got a picture of his foot next to him, and he had sized twelve boots and you can tell it's it's quite a bit bigger. He's like, what could this be? You know? And I think someone told him. I was like, oh, that's probably a sasquatch, and he's like, what, we don't have those things. And he had just moved
here from another state. And so anyway, he decided to put in a report. And so when I met with him and was talking to him, I was like, yeah, well, I got another witness in this local area and I asked him, I said, do you know this stuffle the named Josh, And he's like, no, I don't know him. I haven't lived here very long. One of the things he told me when I came, he's like, hey, don't come with anything like bigfoot or bfro on your truck or anything. Because I got some neighbors that asked me
not to turn in a report on this. He said that he sees it walking the roads every once in a while and he don't want people in here looking for it. Anyway. I asked him if he knew the other witness, and he had not, and so he literally lived just one road turn away from the other guy, and so that kind of put us on the on the area. And from there I started going out there
bringing a new friend. I was like trying to find friends that I knew that they were into the bigfoot subject and stuff, and so I talked a few friends into going out with me. One night, a friend named Dave Anderson went with me, and I think the first night we went there, we didn't have anything. We went back again the next night and we started getting this low moan sound. I just thought it was a cow
or something. And so the next day I called Josh and I said, hey, is there cows in there, because it's on the side of the mountain and he's like, oh, no, there's no cows over here. I said, are you sure? I said, I go because where I heard a cow And he's like, no, I promise you there's no cows in this area. He says the closest cows would be down in the valley. So a couple of weekends later,
I bring another friend in the area. Dave couldn't go, so I bring a friend, John Sullivan, and we're sitting there in the dark and I said, hey, I just want you to listen, just listen for any kind of response, And I did a wood knock on a it's kind of like a drum kit wood wood thing, and so I did a wood knock and almost immediately we got a rock clack return. And I could tell John was hooked from the moment, and he literally was. So he was the first of us to get thermal and all kinds of equipment.
You know.
He was found and determined we were going to figure this out. So yeah, I ended up getting quite a few friends into it from there, so.
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How often would you make it out to the property or we were actually let me ask you, were you working that guy's property or just areas nearby? Or how did that work?
Yeah, so we worked the property where Josh lived in a little bit of the surrounding properties, but we would get out that summer because of that happening, We probably were out there every weekend, maybe out of fifty two weekends, maybe forty six forty eight weekends. I mean, we really were out there because it was and we had an activity almost every one of those, not every one of them. Seemed like anytime we had a full moon it was
kind of a dead night. But for the most part, we had either vocalizations or we started getting rock throws, we'd have a tree pushovers, all kinds of stuff happened there. There's a cabin in there. It got slapped a few times.
Yeah, And I can vouch for how hard they were hitting it because we were communicating all the time. I think by that point I had already moved from Oklahoma, but you know, Joel and I would talk all the time, and so I was getting regular updates about that property. In those situations, and those guys were hitting it hard. It'd be like, hey, who wants to stay up late tonight? And they'd run over there and stay out there all night and then come home in the morning and do whatever.
But they were out there a lot, really diligently.
When you got the cabin slapped, was did you guys, like, would it be like where someone's head was that they were land like, did it seemed like where they knew?
Like did.
It seemed like they that they knew where you were inside the cabin, like would hit where you were sleeping or sitting.
We weren't in the cabin. We were probably two hundred yards from the cabin, sitting at this pond, and the cabin's up this road on top of this hill. And almost like clockwork, when we were there, they would there's a ravine there and we could almost hear them coming up out of the ravine. You know, we'd start hearing movement over there, and they would come up to the pond and kind of work from left to right around the pond, and I think that they would kind of
observe us from that position. But that night it was me and Dave Anderson, and we heard something coming up out of the ravine, but then it went quiet for a long time, and then all of a sudden we hear we'd hear what sounded like something just walloped that wall of that cabin, and then we heard a take off run and going back down the ravine, and we could hear rock slides and stuff like that, you know, where it was just scramble and back down them into the ravine.
Let's talk about this cast a little bit because that property is that where your fantastic cast came from.
Yes, so one night again bringing in a new friend. Bringing in a friend that night is so it is his first time ever going and I told him, I was like, it's pretty much downhill for here for you, buddy, unless you see one. So as we were walking in, we come across a great print on that road and we didn't cast it immediately. I just kind of left it, and I knew that I was going to come back early in the morning to cast it.
So and I have to congratulate you because one of the one of the successes here with this particular footprint is first of all, it's excellent. I have not seen a better cast out of Oklahoma. It is really good there. But also in the middle of it, of interest, I think you're very very lucky to get it at all, frankly, and because it had to have been very fresh, because in the middle of the print there's a couple of things going on in it. In fact, when I'll get
to that minute. But first of all, a scorpion walked across it as you watched it. Is that correct? As you're looking at the print in the ground.
Yeah, so we're we're all huddled around it. There's four or five of us there that night, and as we're looking at it, we observed a scorpion come walking across and walk right through it. And even in the in the in the cash you can see the trail that it left, you know, from its dragging its tail through there.
Yeah, now we'll go ahead and post set on a prootal post set, probably just for the members, I guess, another reason to be a member if you want to be a member of big Foot and Beyond. But on that cast, on the lower left hand side is a line. It looks from from our perspective looking at the picture it's on the lower left hand side of the heel, going diagonally up to the right, about almost to the
ball of the foot, I guess. And there's a line in the middle with small little scraggly's going out on either side, and that is the trail at the scorpion left and underneath that are a couple of little round marks basically on the heel, which is where unfortunately, I'm like an OUCHI here Joel that you guys made a mistake. You touched the footprint before you cast it. But You're not alone in that. All sorts of people have done that,
some of the greats. I mean, peterburn cast has finger marks all over it, Bob titmas stuff down in high and Palm has finger marks on it. That's one of the things that happens with footprints in the ground. But you told me at the time, and I remember working with you about this ten years ago or more, that you were curious how soft the soil was. Is that right?
That's exactly I was like, Oh, I'm going to get to finally tell him. And so when we found this what I went back to cast it. So we were in kind of like a mini drought for around here. We usually get a lot of rain, and I think would have been like a couple months since we've got
any rain. So the ground was super hard, and I tried to jump and with all my weight and I'm way two thirty five and to make a print with my boot not right next to it, but you know, just down from it, in the same substrate, and I could barely make a dent in the ground. And if you look at the the picture of the print before we cast it, you can see that the soil is all crust is all broken up around the edges of it and stuff, and so I was like, I wonder
how long this has been here? And so actually the you know, yeah, I touched it like right in the middle, and if you when the members see it, you'll see that scorpion line, and it's just above the scorpion line, so in the heel area. I think it's a dog print or something.
So you know, it's gonna say it kind of looks like a cat print right here.
So I think it's a dog because at that time, you know, I had tried putting some cane cameras out over there, and I think someone threw some hunting dogs out or some hunting dogs were lost and staying at that pond, and I kept getting those dogs on my game camera.
Is there a big casts there?
There's reports of them. I haven't seen any, but I know that there's pretty good sized bobcats in the area.
But how big was the cast?
I thought it was like fourteen, but I think Cliff didn't you major it at like twelve?
Oh, it's a little bit. I think it's a little bit longer than that. But you know, the picture I'm looking at, it has a scale item right behind it. It's this matter of counting the little squares, I guess.
So interestingly enough, that night that we found the cast, we heard a dog get attacked down in the ravine and so and then there was only one dog around, you know, and so I don't know, I mean, there was a lot that happened that night, but that was one of the things.
So a dog did get attacked, Like what did you hear? Oh, it just screamed and there was a squad scream or the dog the dog, you know, Yeah, it sounded pretty horrible. You could tell something got him.
You know.
The track's about thirteen or fourteen inches long, depending on where you want to take the measurements from, so whatever that's worth there.
Yeah, I measured it fourteen or fourteen and a half I think, is what I wrote on the back. But you know, I know that the hill was messed up, so.
Well there's two that you got a left or is it just like a reversed.
Yeah, one, right. We did find some disturbance, so that was like in the edge of this road and coming off of this hill we could see where maybe another track or something, or where it had stepped previous and then of course we looked for tracks on down. It was like going down into that ravine. That's the direction it was headed. We did look for other tracks along this trail, so it was going down into a trail. So that step was very you know, it was like it was headed into a trail.
Yeah.
I'll make sure all these pictures are available, because there's pictures of the track in the ground from a couple of angles. There's a great picture of when you first discovered the track, and so it's illuminated at night with a red headlamp. And then pictures of the cast after Joel pulled it in. Pictures of the cast as measured by Cliff. Now, wasn't it the case, like you couldn't find plaster and you had to find a different material.
Yeah. So if you remember, I called you like first thing in the morning, hoping that I didn't wake you up, because we stayed out that night till about three or three thirty four, and I just went home, got a couple of hours sleep, and I think I was up around six. I was just so jazzed up to get back out there and cast this before it got ruined. And I didn't even know how to cast. You know,
I had never even practiced. I haven't done any of that, and so I was like, I remember getting on the PFRO website because I remember I had seen something on there about how to cast, and so I kind of read that and I was like, I gotta called Matt. Matt will know what to do. And so I think you just told me. He's like, yeah, you just got
to get whatever you get. And so I went to a local hardware store and all I could find that I was like, I didn't want like regular quick creek because it has pebbles and stuff in it, so I bought some. It's like an anchoring concrete. It's just super fine concrete and so but it was like, had no gravel and stuff in it. And anyway, it's just by sheer luck that it turned out the way it did, because I had no idea what I was doing.
Yeah, it looks fantastic. Just whatever that's worth.
Well, I appreciate it. Yeah, And of course Matt put me in touch with you, which then I mailed that to you, and you, I think, made some copies of it and gave me some copies which I ended up giving to I gave one to the witness that kind of put us on the area. And then I gave another one to my friend John, who he pretty much went out with me almost every weekend, so he was, you know, a very dedicated guy.
So well, the latex mold is still in good conditions. So if you ever want another copy, let me know.
Yeah, man, I may it may take you up on that and just buy some.
I'm trying to go back to my memory because I do remember other things happened that night, but I'm sure the audience would would love to hear about that, because I don't even remember all the details of the stuff that happened.
So that night was probably by far my greatest encounter and I ever. And so not only did we find the print, but as we went in, we split up. Like I said, there was five of us, so we split up into two groups. We had radios and kind of sat on different ends of the pond, and I was sitting on the pond dam with a couple other fellows and so we sat there for a long time
and nothing happened. We did hear that dog get attacked, and then I decided I needed to get up and stretch my legs and so I did, and then Josh he was like, ah, I need to stand up too. Well, Josh, I was standing right next or sitting next to a big old cedar tree. When Josh stood up, he was kind of out in the open, and all of a sudden, something just literally feet away, six feet away at the bottom of the pondam just got up and ran away on two feet and so went trucking back to that ravine.
You know, the ravine was safety.
So six feet away from you or your friend.
From both of us. So we were just sitting next to each other. But it didn't see me stand up because of that cedar tree. But Josh stood up. There was three of us there, and then Josh stood up, and it freaked it out and it bolted off down into that ravine.
What do you think it was doing.
I think it was sneaking up on us. Be honest with you, I don't know. I mean, I have a you know, I can't prove this by no means. I think it was a juvenile that we were dealing with there. Josh had seen it in a tree once and so he said it was about five six foot tall. What made the print may not have been him because he would also tell us about you know, he would hear others. Well, he actually had a bluff charge at one time, which
I didn't believe him to be honest with you. But the more I was there and the more things that happened, I started to leave him. I just thought there's no way that all this could be happening, you know. And so so there was a bigger one in the area. But I do think that we were dealing with a juvenile. And what makes me think that, Well, he's seen it in the tree and the size, he said. But I've always just felt like it had to be like a juvenile that was more curious than others. You know. Well, no,
it made me think of like two other stories. You know.
There's the story from Area X where he had gotten right behind out behind his tent and you remember, like the view was obscured, and so he kept saying, hey, I'm hearing something back here, and they were like, we don't see anything behind your tent with the thermal. Maybe it's a raccoon or a possum or armadillo. And then
it stood up and they saw it. And then there was an expedition that I did in twenty eleven in Georgia where we had a little bit of action in this one draw and for a couple of nights, and so one of the final nights, I'd put a group there.
It was mostly women and two guys and they just brought camp chairs and sat and I just told them like, yeah, let the women talk and sing and make a lot of noise, and so they did that for we were probably out there for like three hours, and they didn't have any optics, so no thermals or night vision, but they were just sat there in the dark and let the girls talk and sing. And after hours it was like nothing was going on, and they said, all right, well, I guess it's time to go back to camp. And
they all kind of stood up at once. And my friend Kevin Zork, who's he was the fire chief in Nag's Head, North Carolina on the Outer Banks, he was there in that group, and he said, the brush next to them, same thing like six ten feet away, exploded and this big, huge thing took off running up the draw and they it terrified them because they were like,
how did that thing get so close to us? And we had no clue it was here, but it was the same reaction when everyone stood up, it's like, oh, time to go.
Yeah, that's exactly. I mean, we never heard it at all. So was it already there when we got there and it just hunkered down? Or did it sneak in on us? I couldn't tell you, but I just that's exactly what it is, just like stood up and exploded and took off running down to this ravine.
Yeah, Bobo and I had something like that happened to both of us at the water spot that one night. You remember that, Bobo? Oh yeah, yeah, something was sneaking up from the ravine to us, and Bobo heard it come in and included me in on it. And then as we we didn't stand up, but I sat up because we're just lying on the road. I sat up, and when it did, it started making a huffing, puffing sort of noise like that, and then stomping its way
down into the ravine. I wonder what that is, you know, trying to sneak up on us like that.
They don't like it when when you call them out when they're trying to be sneaky. Who does.
Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and bogo, we'll be right back after these messages.
That wasn't all that happened that night either, And so once it ran away, we sat there for a good little bit and then we started getting Ohio house from that ravine. We got I think two of them, and I think they were maybe two or three in a series, you know, like a whoa, whoa. So in that one night, we just had so many awesome things happened, you know. It was didn't sleep that two hours that I went home and went to bed.
Does that property where you got the track from, does it still have activity or is it kind of died away or have you just as your attention been brought somewhere else, whatever happened with that property, because that was what that was in twenty twelve, I.
Think yeah, it did eventually d wind out and we got less and less and pretty much we stopped going there. We have went back somewhat recently and thought we had and may have had a encounter and it was very interesting,
but we were unable to verify what we see. To put it plainly, we thought, number one, we thought there was someone at the cabin, so we walked up there to see if there was anyone in the area, and we were going to leave and we get up to the top of the hill and my friend looking through a thermal and he's like, oh, stop, I think there's
someone there looking at us. I was unable to get up high enough on this road to see what he was looking at, and so we backed away and we left, and as we were leaving, he's like, you know, I don't remember seeing any clothes. I don't remember seeing any facial features. He says, it was just a big uniform hot spot anyway, So we bounced it around and I was like, well, why did you not see? We have
really good thermals. We have a they're like the sixty series and stuff, so that you know, they got really good. I mean you could see hair on some mammals with them.
So I was like, you.
Didn't see any facial features. He's like, I didn't see any facial features or any folds in the in the clothes. So I was like, could you have seen the back of a sasquatch maybe watching the cabin? And that's when we're like, oh, my gosh, maybe that's what we see. Maybe we snuck in there and it was watching the cabin because there was someone at the cabin and we
snuck up on it. We have went back and tried to recreate it, and unfortunately we haven't been able to determine whether or not what we've seen was a guy or it was a saasquar. So we just have to leave it asnown.
Sounds like you need to keep on working that spot.
Man, Oh we're gonna walk. We have started working a little bit of the surrounding areas a little more since in that ravine that they were always come out of as a couple of artesian wells, you know, they were just so that year that we had all that drought, there was two very large, six foot diameter, nice cold water in the middle of the summer natural wells in that in that ravine, So I'm pretty sure that's what
was keeping them there of it. Now the water's so readily available all around, so I don't know if that's what made them move on or what.
Yeah, that's a really good point to bring up, is you know, in these places where there's so much activity that seems to be concentrated, Like the first time that I went down to Scout where I held the expedition in twenty eleven, Joel met me there to scout with me, and that was, you know, the year prior to Joel casting that track. But there was a big drought. It was very hot, the creeks were almost like bone dry, and then you know some of the rivers were pretty
darn low, and then we were near a lake. But man, you know, we saw bobcats in the daylight, you know, two days in a row. Basically, because anywhere that there was water, when you walked up on it, you were going to see animals. I mean every puddle you could toss a rock and a puddle and six cotton mouse would come out of that puddle. It was crazy like
because it was so little water. And so I absolutely think Joel's spot on with that that like during those Southeast Oklahoma it's brutally hot, and then you get in those drought conditions and like if you find cold, fresh running water, like you got to stick very very close to it because it might be a long distance before you find another substantial source of it.
Now, was that just a typical of that area or is that specifically that year because you mentioned the drought.
It was basically that year because I've been waiting for that scenario to play out again since, and it hasn't.
Yeah, because other year.
I mean there's times Joel and I've been an Area ACTS and just sit in a torrential downpour for a.
Day, two days or five.
You show up to a bone dry camp and then within hours like there's you know, foot and a half deep water all through camp except for the little high point that the cabin's on. So it does when it's a regular year or a rainy year, it rains a
lot in southeast Oklahoma. But yeah, those drought conditions those years, and you remember the last one of the last years that you and I were in Area X, it was really hot, the heat index and the drought was such that I don't know if it was technically a drought, but it was definitely a dry season and extremely hot, and like midsummer it looked like autumn because the heat
stress was killing the leaves on all the trees. So you're down there in the summertime and everything's like auburn and gold and red is crazy.
Yeah, exactly. And and you know, even the the rivers in that time were also very down, and there would be stretches of no water and there'd just be big puddles, you know, or big pools now.
Were there are other things that happened, Like I'm trying to remember the chronology of you know, after the track was cast and you know, I know it did decline, but were there other things that happened on the way to it being sort of just totally quiet there?
Well, I did have a I don't want to call it a sighting. I seen something on the pond dam in the lightning strike. And it wasn't like we were having big lightning, but you know, the atmospheric lightning, and I seen two dark figures on the pond dam. And then a few moments later we get another atmospheric type of lightning where it just lights up the whole place. It's almost like it's daylight, you know, and the dark
figures are gone. And that that particular night, we did have other things that followed that that made me believe that what I seen was of the Sasquatch. You know, everything got quiet again, and we decided, hey, let's walk up to the cabin. So we walked up this road and we got just a little ways up the road and we had a rock fly just a few feet over our head and strike a tree in front of us. I mean, whatever through it. It is like it through it with some velocity because we could hear the rock
go by us. You know, we didn't find the rock, but we did look for it. But when it hit that tree, I would say it is as big as a probably a softball. That's the only time I've been at that area where I thought, I think we might need to get out of here, and that the bad thing was is whatever through that. We had to walk back by it because we had walked past it and it threw it over our heads from our back to our front. And so that's the only time I've left that area with lights on.
So this this area, it's probably safe to say that this was one of those long term witness situations where the thing was hanging around, and there was probably indications that it was hanging around, and maybe your presence as an investigator kind of solidified that for the witness, for
the person living there. After speaking to the witness and after your experiences on this property, what are some of the other behaviors that are probably but not for sure, but or maybe for sure are probably attributed to the sasquatches being there and examples. Okay, tree knocks and vocalizations, those are obvious ones. But what are some of the perhaps less obvious signs that these people or you either observed or heard about while there.
Tree pushovers? We had quite a few trees get pushed over and limb breaks and snaps. Sometimes they would sneak up on us and not want to be heard, you know. And one night was really interesting. We could hear them kind of soft loop back and forth to each other. You know, you'd hear a little whoop from over here, and then a few seconds later you could hear another one from another little area, and that was pretty neat.
But and then there was other nights where they wanted to know that, you know, that they were there, and they were snapping limbs off and just making a ruckus as they come up out of the ravine.
So did you ever find signs of these broken trees?
Yes?
What did they look like?
I got a good picture of one and it's it's a good sixteen seventeen feet off the ground, I think is what we measured. It's about the size of a Louisville slugg or bat in circumference at the end, you know, just snapped right off the pine tree limb. We found a few that were kind of the break twist, you know, the classic got the classic twist to it. But never was they wile to really find any of the trees
pushed over it. We'd hear them and then we'd come back and look for the trees and we couldn't find the trees. We'd come across trees that were down, but you know, it's the forest. There's trees. Yeah, there's trees everywhere.
Did the property owners live on the property.
They lived really close to the property. They lived by the black Top. We would walk in, we'd park at his house and we'd walk in probably half a mile from his place. You know.
Okay, so they just owned a bunch of property and that their home was next to the road for convenience.
Exactly exactly.
Anything happened at their house. Things get moved around, or their house gets slapped from the outside or anything like that.
Nope, he never had that. He said that they're On multiple occasions he'd be outside grilling or something in the evening and he said it sounded like someone was building a house out in the woods. You know, the wood knocks.
He always talked about like every once in a while he thought a mail was in the area, and he said the woods would change, you know, he said things always seemed a little more tense around there, talking about like the wood knox would be louder and the vocalizations would be louder.
They wouldn't see deer or with the deer coming into the yard and like hide out.
Yeah there was deer around, but uh, he'd never mentioned anything like that.
So was there What about seasonality? How that how that plan the things?
That was pretty much year round we were having stuff And like I said, the only time that we really go in there and not have anything would be a full moon night. And uh, you know how them full moon nights are is just the visibility so well, And I was equated it they could see us, you know, they didn't need to approach us to see us or something.
You've been big footing now for over a decade. So have you had the opportunity to investigate other long term witness properties And I know you were in in you know, they need w a C with every X and stuff. But that's what I'm talking about, and I'm talking about other places that is kind of similar to this, this initial property that you were working.
Unfortunately, no, I have not been able to find another spot like that. I mean, we have some other areas that we we hit and we'd have a little bit of activity or we'd have a long distant howl or something from there. And we've had a few places where we had rock throws and stuff like that, but I wouldn't call it like you know, it's very hit or miss whether we get activity there. And we've kind of
been in a drought for a while. We haven't had much activity in quite quite some time, maybe a year or two.
A big Foot trout, not a water drought then.
Yeah, yeah, big fit drought. And we have here recently had a place where we've started to get wood knocks again. So maybe maybe the future is starting to turn back up.
So hopefully stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. We'll be right back after these messages. So you've had some general success and I know that we're coming around the end of the hour here. What sort of advice now that you've been doing it for a while, what kind of advice would you give to people who are interested in doing the bigfoot thing, either someone, because you know, you can give advice to newbies or oldies or anybody in between. What do you think you have learned?
Well, I've learned. I've made a lot of mistakes.
That's how you learned too.
Yeah, there's so many things I wish I'd have done differently, But I would say some of the advice, like you guys, give find an area and continue to go to it, because I think we went to that spot a good for four or so times before we really started having anything. But just continue to put yourself in a good place.
You know.
I know a ton of hunters that have been hunting and they don't think this thing exists, And I always tell them, well, you're not in the right place. So if you find a good place, that's that's gonna up your chances immensely. Well.
I think you also did a great thing by like putting together a group of other outdoors folks, you know, people like who were like minded but also just loved being outside and exposing them to activity.
Because man like.
I was always just so like wishing I could be there, envious, like, oh man, I wish I could be a part of that because you guys were and continue to be. You and John especially like out so often for all these years. And that's a really special thing because like when I think about all my favorite squatching people like you, it's like, oh, I'd love to be in the field with Joel, but he's eight and a half hours away, or you know,
Cliff in Bobo across the country. So yeah, I think having a group of people that you trust and you get along and you don't argue or fight.
Oh absolutely. And I'll tell you maybe another bit of advice to just have fun with it, because there's been I couldn't tell you how many nice we had absolutely nothing and it's the majority of them. But I always come home feeling like I had a great time because I was in the woods with some good friends and
we always have good conversations. You know. Of course when we're hoping that we have activity, everything's nice and but you know, eventually you start talking and and uh, it's just I've never had a bad night in the woods with my friends.
So that's what I asked real quick, Joel, what's the what's the craziest story you heard from a witness that you found like just like kind of blew you away, But you found credible.
Oh that I found credible, because I've heard some newsies that I don't think incredible.
Well, I want to hear one of those next.
Then, So I was at a big Foot conference and still well, helping a friend out selling some T shirts, and a lady come up and we got to talking and she's like, yeah, I'm from Southeast Oklahoma too, And I was like, oh yeah. I said, have you ever had any encounters or anything? And she's like, she says, well, yeah, I've never told this story to anyone. I only recently told it to my husband. I said, well, you're in probably the safest place to ever share a story if
you would like to retell it. And she's like, when I was a young girl on the Black Fork, we had a birthday party, and so we had like four or five little girls come and stayed with them, and they all stayed in the camper, you know, the camping trailer out there, so that they wouldn't you know, they could stay up as late as they wanted and they wouldn't annoy the parents and stuff, and so so they're staying out in this camper and it got to be very late and the girl that you know, the birthday girl,
the girl that was telling me the story, decided that she was super tired and they were winding down any so she decided that she was going to go in and sleep on the couch and let the girls just play. And she opened the door of the camper and was on our way out and something grabbed her arm and it had all black fingers said, it looked like almost a sleeve of hair. The hair came to an end at the hand, you know, almost like it was a cuff.
But she said, the hand was all black, the nails were black, and you know, of course, it shocked her and scared her, and she screamed and slammed the door back, and when she screamed, it let go over her and she closed the camper door and locked it. And all the other girls heard her scream and they looked and they seem just like a glimpse of what had happened. And so now you got like five little girls. They're
just scared to death. And this is pre cell phone days, so they had no way to communicate with the adults in the house of what had happened. So they all got up into the top little bunk of this little camper and huddled there and they were scared, and this thing started beating the side of the camper and rocking the camper. It was trying to get in there. And she said this went on for so long that these little girls exhausted themselves and passed basically fell asleep. Eventually
it ended they fell asleep. The daylight comes and they're scared to go outside, you know, and because they don't know if it's still out there. And she said her dad came out to the camper and he was cussing and going on, and she could tell he was very upset, and so she opened the door and he's like, how the heck could this thing get out here? And so the camper was actually moved like thirty feet out into a field, was all beat up, dense all on the
side of it. And so she retailed what happened, and she said that no one would believe her except for her grandpa. Her grandpa used to always tell him like, hey, you can play here, and you can play in the field, but don't go up.
On that hill.
And so she always figured that after that, that's why we weren't supposed to go up on that hill.
That is crazy. It just grabbed your arm and she screaming to let go.
Yeah, she thinks it scared it. And at the same time, the door hitting its arm, you know, kind of shocked it and let go enough that she was able to get the camper door closed. And she said it was a type of camper lock that had the button, you know, and so she pushed the button down same time locking.
Yeah.
I don't see any problem with that. No. Now, as a closer, I guess for the regular episode, tell us the most ridiculous story that you absolutely don't believe that you've heard.
I love these or you may or may not believe it. Just wild.
Oh I don't believe this one bit. So so I was told that this villa was trying to kick a addiction, and so he went out to his family's cabin which was out in the woods and was going to live there for a little while to just kind of break
this habit. So he would go for long walks through the woods on this trail that was kind of looped around on the property, and it would come back to the cabin and he would smoke cigarettes, you know, and he would walk around and eat smoke cigarettes, and he would eat Snickers a little like a fun sized Snicker bars.
You know, I've had I've had Snickers. They're all fund sized.
Yes, some some more fun than others. And so he started seeing glimpses of what he thought were a bigfoot, and so he would leave a cigarette on a stump and a lit cigarette by the way, and a fun sized Snickers, and then he would leave and he would come back and the cigarette would still be there. He said he'd left the cigarette because of the smell, and
the snickers would be gone. And then one day he was out there walking and he didn't have any more snickers, you know, and so all he had was of a large Snickers, like a full size Snickers bar.
A funner size, yeah, the funter size. And so he was walking on the trail and this little one started following him, and he was like, oh man, I don't have any snickers to leave him, and so he stopped and sat, and then all of a sudden, this female comes out and is like following the little one which was following him, and.
He was like, oh my gosh, what am I going to do? And so he said he pulled out that large one put it out towards it, and he said here, and it kept coming closer, kept coming closer, and finally grabbed the snickers and then ran away. But then it turned and it came back, and it put its hands out like to give him knuckles, and so he gave him knuckles, and then it turned and walked away back
to the female. And as it got down to the bottom of the draw with the female, he noticed a large male at the top of the hill come out, and they walked up and got met up with the big one, and they went over the hill and he never seen them again.
I believe it like a fist bump.
In other words, Yeah, squat for a snickers, bubos into it, Bobo would give him the belly bump.
Well all right, well, thank you for that so much. Actually from the right source. I wouldn't have too much of a problem with that one. I would make me wonder. But right, I've heard crazier. That's for sure.
You changed my mind. I believe it.
I'm not saying I'm not saying, believe the guy. Trust me.
All right.
Well, you know we had a lot of you have a lot more experiences that we want to talk about. When you're in the n AWAC down at Area X, and some stuff that happened down there. So why don't we stick around here for the memo. We'll all stick around and we'll close this episode down and I will continue the conversation over the Member episode, which of course
is released every Thursday. If you want to be a member and get an extra hour of content and get these kinds of episodes right now with zero commercials, maybe you should be a member too, listener talking to you out there on the other side of this machine that makes podcast noise. Be a member five bucks a month. You get a bunch of extra stuff from us. You'll dig it. But Joel, thank you so very much for spending some time with us.
I loved it. Appreciate it, guys.
Thank you Joel. We appreciate it very much. All right, folks, that's another episode of Bigfoot Beyond with Clifton Bobo and I always through it behind the controls. So thanks for joining us. Hit like hit, share us a five star review and until next week, y'all keep it squatchy.
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